Is it weird that I prefer "All Ages" comics to ones made for teens and adults? There's something about things like Marvel Adventures or Batman Family Adventures that's just more fun. I wish there were more ongoing all ages series
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Well, it certainly doesn't hurt things when the Marvel Adventures line of comics was actually really good. That said I think comics really should have some kind of middle ground. Kids can handle more than we give them credit for so comics don't need to be dumbed down completely to their own grade school line. But at the same time a lot of comics that do try to over appeal to adults just end up not being good because they so often have a very juvenile definition of maturity.
>Kids can handle more than we give them credit for so comics don't need to be dumbed down completely to their own grade school line.
So more stuff like Bone?
Bone's a great read for anyone. I gifted my nephews a copy and they love it. But I don't think there was anything wrong with kids reading the mainstream comic stuff either. Honestly it still feels like relatively recent that comics tried to make themselves out to be more adult. Even with all the soap opera drama.
I found it kind of dull.
Nta but I loved Bone as a kid
Well, you're a coddled American, you people pretty much worship your childhood and try to prolong it for as long as possible. We had both Marvel Adventures and Ultimate in Eastern Europe in the 2000s and most people preferred Ultimate because it was gritty and had engaging long-term plots (a lot of which ended up abandoned or disappointing but nonetheless). Marvel Adventures I remember already disliking when I was a tween, I don't know what maturity is talking about, I remember it being very silly and one-note, stuff like Wolverine in the Avengers comic being reduced to a grumpy butt of the jokes, I'm pretty even Silver Age was more mature than that. Or stuff like Luke Cage being able to seriously damage Abomination from the comic the cover to which OP posted, even as a kid I thought that was pretty contrived.
I've come to be more tolerant towards MA when I stopped being an edgy teen. I guess it's inoffensive and scratches that itch people here have for dumb one-note episodic threat-of-the-week stuff. I can appreciate the light-heartedness in some ways, but I'm still not that huge into it.
Ultimate Spider-Man was my favorite comic as a kid actually, but to me the Ultimate comics kind of sucked outside of that and maybe some of Ultimate X-men. I definitely preferred marvel adventures to Ultimate FF and the Ultimates
Not just you
A lot of my current reading is still for older audiences my age but at the same time I enjoy all-ages stuff
Helps that they're usually able to get away with more compared to television cartoons
Of course, the vast majority aren't gonna blow my mind but that only makes the really hidden gems that I stumble upon stick out even more
I don't know about weird, but speaking from the opposite side, I find a lot of YA/All Ages stuff sleep inducing.
I like a little nuance and/or seriousness peppered into my media.
>I wish there were more ongoing all ages series
DC had plenty back then with their Cartoon Network and DCAU tie-in titles but now it's just Scooby Doo and Looney Tunes IIRC and those go unnoticed
I remember when IDW's Horse ongoing caused this big discussion over comics not appealing more to kids because when that first debut, actual little girls would show up at LCS' for that series alone and yes, IDW did try to capitalize that with similar licenses but none succeeded and eventually their own Horse comics saw a decline in sales
All-Ages/YA aren't incompatible with seriousness and nuance though
>All-Ages/YA aren't incompatible with seriousness and nuance though
That's true, but they seem to forego these sort of elements these days, though I'm largely speaking from a position of ignorance.
The first comic series I ever read was Marvel Adventures spiderman so maybe I'm biased but I remember it being really good.
It depends, I think the BTAS and Marvel Adventures comics did a good job of being kid's comics without being toothless, a lot of kid's comics feels like they're made more for moms than kids, though
I think in a lot of ways these comics tend to work better with old guys tired of mainsteam comics than actual kids. I know as a boy I wanted comics that were "cooler", with more action and extreme art. And I'm not a 90's kid or anything, but I gravitated to things with more detailed art and action.
Like I appreciate Bone now, but as a kid with a $20 spending budget, would I get that or a volume of Naruto? I'd go for Naruto.
What makes "adult" aimed comics from the big two bad is how they're full of boring moments and self-aggrandizing writing.
>Batman Family Adventures
Gay.
I read it for the first time yesterday with my gf it was cute
>with my gf
If you're gonna tell a lie at least tell a believable lie. Also gay.
She likes webtoons and showed me it :/
sure
>it was cute
It's for girls, dude.
that's because gore and swearing don't improve nor fix a shit story, which is something most people forget
Not to mention some of the sex stuff. I mean I don't want to sound prudish or like I'm saying characters need to cover up or anything. But there's a difference between some cleavage or a skin tight body suit and Hank Pym shrinking down to clit box Jan.
Kek even that I can handle sometimes as a goof but the endless fricking around and making such a point of it like Avengers is some extra loose sorority is unneeded.
>She-Hulk getting kickout of the Avenger's mansion for making it her own personal frickpad.
tell that to 11-year old me
you feel that way because at their heart cape stories are supposed to be fun and somewhat inspiring which for some reason writers often try to complete stomp out in their "mature" stories and/or hide behind 50 shades of gray to the point where you question if those characters are even heroes in the first place
Marvel getting so casual with having characters kill really turned me off over the years.
The opening of the second Avengers movie was nuts.
They just slaughter their way through so many people. Said people pose so little risk to them that they're constantly joking around while killing them.
Regardless of what those guys did or are doing, none of it feels particularly heroic.
Yeah, I don't really have an issue with heroes killing outright so much but it's the glib MCU-itus that I take contention with. It's supposed to be an exciting life or death moment and they're just all LOLOLOL IM SO BADASS FUNNEH JOKES! And i Just can't get excited for what they're doing.
>They just slaughter their way through so many people. Said people pose so little risk to them that they're constantly joking around while killing them.
I hate this too, as far as I can tell every single fricking "hero" in the MCU has killed or at least attempted to kill someone. Clint can just go to Japan and murder a bunch of people and come home with no consequences. Ultron was unironically right.
>The opening of the second Avengers movie was nuts.
>They just slaughter their way through so many people.
I thought that they didn't die.
It gets even worse when the MCU heroes then turn around and chastise the designated villains or enemies for killing.
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was horrible for this. Sam and Bucky fricking hate US Agent's guts after he goes into a fit of rage and kills the terrorist who murdered his friend. But Sam and Bucky are both already soldiers who have killed countless people and enemies in their lives. The show even opens with a big setpiece where Falcon flies in and takes down a helicopter full of mercs. If they're mad at US Agent for killing the terrorist, then they have no moral high ground there like the writers seem to think they do. In fact, you could even interpret it as Sam and Bucky being mad not because US Agent killed someone, but because he did it in public instead of away from the media and eyewitnesses.
Then it gets even worse at the end of the show, where Captain Falcon decides to treat the terrorist who BOMBED SUPPLY DEPOTS AND PEOPLE AND WANTED TO BOMB EVEN MORE like she was some kind of martyr, right in front of the people she'd just kidnapped.
If you hate terrorists so much, why do you have a problem with Avengers killing them en masse at the beginning of their movie? Make up your mind.
>In fact, you could even interpret it as Sam and Bucky being mad not because US Agent killed someone, but because he did it in public instead of away from the media and eyewitnesses.
You could, if you were a moron deliberately looking for the worst interpretation possible to get that sweet outrage dopamin. That's obviously not what the narrative intends.
My problem is with the moral stance that show keeps insisting on
>Sam and Bucky killing is perfectly fine because they're heroes
>Walker killing the guy who killed his best friend is NOT OKAY
They were Hydra soldiers, terrorists and scum of the Earth. Do you also feel sorry for the mooks John Wick kills in his movies?
The John Wick movies don't pretend John Wick is a good person or even heroic. He's an assassin who kills for money and the audience is only on his side because the antagonists are worse - and they stole his car and killed his fricking dog.
WFA isn't really comparable to Marvel Adventures. WFA is basically officially published fanfiction, Marvel Adventures is a proper Marvel comic that just happens to be episodic and child-friendly.
Because they were done better and with care.
So you only enjoy overly simplistic stories intended for younger kids. Gotcha. That’s fine but if that’s the only type of fiction you can enjoy then I would say you have pretty weird and narrow idea of entertainment.
Where does this attitude come from?
This isn't even a scenario where OP is inciting drastic change or making broad suggestion towards an industry they only have an outside perspective on.
OP literally found an existing product that they enjoy and wants more of it. One that doesn't interfere with the status quo or directly effect main line comics. Yet these snarky responses act like OP is rocking the boat.
>Yet these snarky responses act like OP is rocking the boat.
Because you're dealing with autists who think in extremes.
>So you only enjoy
I never said I only enjoy all ages comics so you're already wrong but go on
>overly simplistic stories intended for younger kids.
I never said "overly" simplistic. I don't know why you speak in extremes
>Gotcha. That’s fine but if that’s the only type of fiction you can enjoy
Again I never said this. You're creating a point to argue against so you can feel superior.
>then I would say you have pretty weird and narrow idea of entertainment.
Well good thing I never said that huh?
Here is some advice. Not everything is an argument. Not conversation you join needs to have a right and wrong side. You're creating scenarios and points to debate against because you think conversations are win/lose situations when they aren't. I never said that there need to be less complex comicbooks, that there are no mature comics I enioy, or anything else other than "I prefer 'All Ages' comics" and "I wish there were more ongoing all ages series" Learn to interact with people in a less condescending and confrontational way
Marvel Adventures were simplistic stories. It’s not extreme to categorise them, they’re quite literally stories aimed at kids in one-shot format.
The structure is massively fricking better narratively and remembers the importance of bread and butter low stakes plots and character work so it's not surprising.
Mainline shit is an endless decompressed mess of gays trying to make a bigger mess than the last guy or invent the next Venom or Darkseid and failing because nobody has built the status quo or made a new good Shocker or Mole Man type villain in decades to define stakes, or ground and flesh out characters.
I just want to go back self-contained stories, two-part stories, events that only happen once in 10 years, the end of decompressed storytelling and the return of thought bubbles and narration. Is that really so big of an ask?
So you want filler nobody wants to buy or read and sales going down.
>So you want filler
Filler exists only in the context of a storyline with a definitive ending. Super hero comics don't have endings, they just rest after a few years with a relaunch or rebranding or reboot. Literally every modern event we get is just a filler arc because muh status quo need to be preserved so the least we can get is entertaining filler.
This board has spent years b***hing about nearly every one-and-done or two-part storyline a major book does by saying it’s dull filler. This is no different from any other dumb idea to fix comics that this board is obsessed with. It’s nothing but “muh feels” bs where they think because they prefer or idealise something it has to have mass appeal. When the market quite literally shows the opposite by repeatedly refusing to support them when the big two attempts to diversify and offer what fans scream they want.
Why does it upset you that someone points out realities?
>OP just likes something and wants more of it
And I’m saying what he wants isn’t going to happen because it doesn’t sell. That isn’t what people want. In fact if you tried to push it harder it would just piss off people. Look at how many people here feel it’s a personal insult that DC makes YA graphic novels they are aimed at non-fanboy readers. To this day the b***hing continues that they made one about Starfire’s daughter that wasn’t a supermodel. People act like their mom was raped because Harley Quinn is popular and keeps getting new cartoon spinoff comics.
>To this day the b***hing continues that they made one about Starfire’s daughter that wasn’t a supermodel
That book was ass though.
It was entirely fine. People just want to hate it because it has a female character who isn’t anorexic as the lead.
The b***h is fat.
The Starfire book wasn't as bad as people say but it was pretty bad
It was a mediocre book made worse by the main character being such a narcissistic spoiled cow with such an ugly design to match her ugly soul. And while agree in that I've seen worse books, like legitimately far worse, I still don't think it's just not really interesting. Those teen titans spinoffs where they're actual teenagers will still be infinitely more interesting than the stories about a fattie gen alpha who wants to live in France but refuses to learn French.
Chat from Marvel Adventures Spider-Man was cute and one of his best gfs. Your opinion is dildos.
Dude I didn't even read long enough to get to Chat as a kid. There are like 150 issues before she appears.
>This is no different from any other dumb idea to fix comics that this board is obsessed with.
It's not OPs "idea", it is an existing product. OP isn't giving a pitch or claiming they can fix the industry. They found a thing that is being created already and want more. They did not even suggest it as an alternative, just as an addition. What about this escapes you? Why are you unable to escape this debate that apparently ever present in your head?
>Me want more of things that sell marginally
And you’re not going to get it because they don’t sell enough to warrant more being put out
Why are you so hung up on sales when Nobody mentioned it? This conversation has nothing to do with sales or business
>they don’t sell enough to warrant more being put out
Doesn't this apply to a lot of the shit they put out now? That Squirrel Girl run that was selling like triple digits some issues got pushed to like 50+ but issues.
No bro that was clearly selling super well. Squirrel Girl, Manga and Dogman are the only things we should be putting on shelves
Because Squirrel girl was selling well in collected format. The audience wasn’t reading it in monthly format
>So you want filler
Are you stupid? I'm asking for the complete opposite of that.
Single issue stories are filler. They almost never tell big stories.
By this logic most stories before the 90's are filler.
Most of it is by the definition this very board uses for filler.
Are the people on this board moronic?
Yes, except for me.
>Single issue stories are filler. They almost never tell big stories.
Stories don't need to be big to be meaningful.
The "stories" that are being told aren't worth the ink & are just character assassinations at best.
Just look at all the event story lines that took place in the 00's.
It shouldn't be, but here we are
>I want to live in my childhood again!
This is like wanting vaudeville or silent movies to come back. It ain’t fricking happening.
It's not weird at all, they aren't actively trying to piss people off to create controversy.
That's not weird at all. The original World's Finest and Spidey Super Stories seem very popular here.
the best version of jan.
As much as I enjoy the Marvel Adventures books and think they're wonderfully underrated (or at least what I've read of them), I also feel a bit shit knowing that the whole thing only came about after Marvel stole Darwyn Cooke's proposal for an all-ages line right out from under him
I respect Darwyn but he was also prone to drinking and would probably accuse chestnuts of being lazy. Marvel was already doing an All-ages line before Cooke(that were reworking 60's stories with new art and streamlined writing).They just invited him to make a proposal and he likely wanted to art direct it with artists similar to him. Cooke's art is great..but it's very much retro-inspired and not necessarily what would move the needle to gets kids into them.
The artist they went with for MA Spider-man wasn't a critical darling or a great designer like Cooke, but the art was definitely more modern feeling.
This art is great but it's nothing like the Spider-man you'd see on 2000's merchandise kids would be familiar with. I'm sure some kids would've loved it, too, but it's very rooted in nostalgia.
They had the idea of an all-ages line before Cooke approached them, but IIRC he then did a lot of work developing concepts and planning it out only for Marvel to take it away from him and give it to the others who eventually did it
>Cooke's art is great..but it's very much retro-inspired and not necessarily what would move the needle to gets kids into them.
>The artist they went with for MA Spider-man wasn't a critical darling or a great designer like Cooke, but the art was definitely more modern feeling.
>This art is great but it's nothing like the Spider-man you'd see on 2000's merchandise kids would be familiar with. I'm sure some kids would've loved it, too, but it's very rooted in nostalgia.
That's a fair point and I actually agree with you, but I do feel like you're underselling Cooke's appeal a bit.
The thing is we only have Cooke's side, they likely invited other creators to pitch ideas, and seemingly Cooke's idea also involved specific creators on the books he was planning. If they didn't want to roll with those creators then there's no reason to use his specific plan.
I'm not underselling Cooke's appeal, like I said I'm sure there would've been kids who liked it too, but I can understand why Marvel would want to go with a more contemporary look
Sure, but you know what was even more popular at the time than the DCAU books? The Teen titans tie-in. That one was so popular it managed to outlast the series due to fan demand
And even then the JL/JLU book gradually went from on-model to letting Ben Caldwell go wild with the designs.
Bruce Timm art in DCAU was very much like it and kids loved it.
Scorpion's boobs
Kinda. At that point, you probably shouldn't be reading comics.
Because modern comics have forgotten the whole point of what comics are. They are supposed to be escapism and power fantasy for school age kids and cheesy pulp fiction for adults. I remember getting Marvel Adventures for my nephew at the time they were coming out monthly and discovering they were infinitely superior to the flagship Marvel books. Mainly because they didn't shy away from the campiness of the situations in a futile effort for realism. All drama was handled within one issue so you didn't have angst between heroes. It didn't invoke modern politics or social trends or try to promote any kind of agenda other than having short little fun stories.
Is there anything out there like this now? Something that is just fun episodic adventures with a bit of campiness?
>It didn't invoke modern politics or social trends or try to promote any kind of agenda other than having short little fun stories.
It promoted women characters that weren’t real Avengers. It was pushing feminism. You just don’t care because you find 60 years old feminism so basic it doesn’t even register.
That's a perfect issue to pull from as an example
Marvel Adventures is so saccharine that they might as well use it as inuniverse propaganda.
Really?