Is Movie Miles a Gary Stu?
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Is Movie Miles a Gary Stu?
Is Movie Miles a Gary Stu?
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Only in the sense that he gets everything handed to him and just randomly is good at being Spiderman. The movie wants to present him as an underdog.
In the first movie he is an underdog. He gets his Peter killed, he breaks the goober, he gets carried by Peter B. and Gwen, and Prowler had him dead to rights and only stopped because Miles showed his face. The sequel is full-on sucking off Miles though.
This. First movie Miles didn't do anything notable until the final act. Everything else was just him running away or getting lucky enough to not die.
So, you're mad he made progress after getting to know his powers and being trained by different experienced Spider-people (something no other spider person got?)
I'm mad that all the other Spider-Men are made to look worse so Miles can go BREAK CANON and DO HIS OWN THANG. HE'S THE ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN, SEE? HE CAN SAVE HIS FAMILY WHEN PETER PARKER COULDN'T. HE'S THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST HE'S SO HECKIN VALID
>are made to look worse
is this what you think? That everyone else looks worse? go ask someone else if they think other spider heroes look worse to them now
Pretty much everyone thinks they were made to look worse in order to prop up Miles. Hell. Twitter and Cinemaphile celebrate it.
>43.4k likes
What exactly did Hobie do for Miles?
Taught him how to use his powers and made the cliffhanger device.
he also tried warning him about miguel
He did gwen hahahahahah
It's Glen, biggot
He stretched out Gwen’s bussy nice and wide for the homeboy to just slide right into.
So.... what did Miles actually DO in the movie? I mean, what did he actually accomplish? Running away from a bunch of people without being killed or captured?
So Miles is being competent as Spider-Man. That's sort of expected.
So he can catch your standard gas station mugger. That's expected.
So he is always late for important stuff and bad at excuses. That's expected.
So he went on a date with Gwen. That was expected the moment that anybody knew Gwen was in the movie.
So he is fine working with Officer Morales? That's about the only thing different from your standard Spider-Man story. And that's really down to a different perspective on the story.
Is it because some people in the Spiderverse were willing to be sympathetic towards Miles? To be on his side and be okay with a kid wanting to go save his dad? That seems like a really strange take on the idea that he's a Mary Sue. Especially when you consider that most of the people in the Spiderverse had followed Captain Dickhead's advice and sad by watching their own Captain Stacy get murdered (Gwen was willing to sit around for the same) and they almost certainly felt regret for doing so.
>What exactly did Hobie do for Miles?
She had the option to shut down the teleportation at 98% and keep Miles in the Spiderverse. Instead, she just leaves it alone and allows it to teleport Miles back home.
It was the wrong home, but it's the thought that counts.
>Black solidarity
?????
all the spider-men are part of a death cult, slaves to "canon", willing to let people - their own friends and family - die to stave off a catastrophe that may or may not happen. they absolute look worse so Miles can look good being the ultimate hero who can go BEYOND THE SPIDER-VERSE
only the closest to Miguel even know about the "canon event" thing
>only the closest
No they all know what's going on. That streamer Spider-Woman and Gwen both knew what shit was coming down and Miguel especially hated the latter
you mean the one that handles the computer and the one that is personally trained by Miguel second-in-command knew? no way
Anon, have you even watched the movie or did your favoruite e-celeb give you a story recap? Miguel literally tells everyone they're the good guys for what they are doing after Miles escapes and they knew what was at stake. Every Spider-Man who followed them was in that room. 100s of Spider-Man suddenly come once Miguel tells Miles his father is gonna die whether he wants it or not. Stop being moronic.
>you mean the one that handles the computer
They all handle a part of the spider society you moron
>The Milestrannie is still in cope that every Spider-Man would act moronic and not know what was going on
Lol, lmao
Miguel showed Miles the holograms in a room fricking full of Spider-people what are you talking about?
They only look worse if you’re moronic. Did you think Barry was the villain of Flashpoint?
>Did you think Barry was the villain of Flashpoint?
Yes. Next moronic question to move the goalpost?
He absolutely was. Any time an entire film’s problem is because the “hero” did something reckless and stupid which jeapordized everyone, they’re the real villain. Flash is the main villain of Flash, HollandPeter and Strange’s IQ are the main villains of No Way Home, Wanda is the main villain of Wandavision and Doctor Strange 2, Tony and most of the heroes are the main villains of Civil War, and so on. If your “hero” is such a frickup that they caused a bigger problem than any of the villains then they are the antagonist.
>HollandPeter and Strange’s IQ are the main villains of No Way Home
Huh? Peter isn't though. He could have never known what would happen if he interrupted Strange and Strange assumed that Peter didn't have any problems with telling his close people about his identity since no one else on the Avengers and him do. Even then later on Spider-Man saving people not being able to look away is just a character quirk of his. Flash is a villain because he should know better and his actions have erased many people.
Fricking with the multiverse and world-spanning magic is fricking stupid, period. Even Strange mentioned it. Then Peter stole the stupid box which led to his aunt dying.
But they didn't want to frick with the multiverse. The spell was about memory erasing. It would have went smoothly as well if Peter didn't interrupt. The plot would have also been over quickly as well if Peter just let the villains die and looked away. His actions can have consequences but that can happen if you're doing the right thing. Aunt May also told him as well he did the right thing even if she died because of Gobbie.
>But they didn't want to frick with the multiverse
It doesn’t matter, Strange knew well the implications and told Peter the same. He knew fricking well what could happen.
>It doesn't matter
It does matter though. It went fine and only got really dangerous once Peter decided to save his villains
Is that why Strange already said it was a bad fricking idea at the beginning? The multiverse wouldn’t have been at stake if he used common sense.
Peter makes stupid, selfish decisions from time to time.
There’s a huge difference between something street level selfish and almost jeapordizing reality.
That's factual.
Bro...
Gwen supposedly saved her dad by talking it out and accidentally getting him to realise he should quit due to the harsh internal conflict he was dealing with. So it's not turning Miles into a messiah figure if a supporting character does what you're coded to assume is supposed to be a huge visual set piece but can be averted through emotional catharsis.
Doesn't that show that you don't have to be the ULTIMATE version of a character in your universe and don't need to face down a destabilizing world to saved those you care about?
i dont think some of the people here actually watched the movie or understand basic story telling
>Miles not wanting to accept that his father has to die is somehow Gary Stu behavior
He's literally the only Spider-Man we see that is confronted with the fact that canon events exist right before one happens to him. Of course he's going to fight back against the idea that his father has to die. You think Peter B. Parker would just shrug his shoulders and say "Oh well" if Miguel said the same thing to him about MJ or Mayday?
From the way the movies written and presents him, yes
Wtf are you even talking about?
The only fight Miles wins in this movie is against the miscellaneous bad guys that we only see on screen for 3 seconds.
He loses all of his fights against the spot except the first one where he webs him up (even that one he was struggling like hell).
He didn't even really fight the spider-society he was escaping them which is like the only thing Spider-man is truly great at. Only makes sense it would work against other spider people. Thats part of why black cat was able to escape most of the time in comic books and other cartoons.
Miles clearly also lost the fight against the prowler. Pavitr Prabhakar and spider-punk were also outshining him when they were introduced to begin with. Hell even Gwen outshined him the first time Miles had to do the "Thread the needle" trick between the truck cargo containers.
Miles did just as many things wrong as he did right.
Worst part is you could’ve easily had miles be over confident in the new movie not seeing how to really utilize everything until some other spidermen showed him, instead we got this, never thought Tina Fey would predict SpiderMan but here we are.
Yeah, spiderman ps4 and spectacular should've been plenty to take down miles especially since spiderman PS4 has his own and knows his tricks he would've tipped Miguel off to the electro-kinesis.
Insomniac Peter would be the last guy to be against Miles. He already failed Jeff once.
People argue he wouldn't because he let May die ignoring the context he had literally no time to save both his aunt and the people of new york and she wanted Peter to give the cure to the others.
He even had to force himself to not use the cure on May. That’s drastically different from hunting down a kid who’s an alternate version of his protege, and wants to save his father. The people who say they’re the same are genuinely braindead.
Something dangerous about Peter ready to destroy a universe because he wanted save his aunt.
The Spider-Society also doesn't have the time to save both Miles's dad and his universe. They have two days at the maximum. Two days isn't enough to comprehend the truth behind Canon theory and then convince yourself it's alright to gamble the lives of trillions to save one man.
I don't know why people tend to pretend that this is some simple "UHH OBVIOUSLY SAVE EVERYONE!" scenario like Spider-Man saving Mary Jane and the bus of children. They can't gamble the lives of trillions with only two days to come up with an unproven alternative.
>The Spider-Society also doesn't have the time to save both Miles's dad and his universe
What the frick are you talking about. They had all the time in the world to search for solution but aren't even attempting shit until Miles inspires Gwen to make her own band.
>They can't gamble the lives of trillions
They are constantly gambling because Miles has already changed the trajectory of their lifes and is still doing so by talking to Gwen and co. Gwen searches out Miles and is again putting the Multiverse at risk. Peter was supposed to stay a divorced loser. There was never supposed to be a dead Spider-Man in Miles' universe. Damage controlling moron.
Tell me where it's stated they aren't trying to figure out an alternative.
The burden of proof is on you, we see they've been at it for a year and their solution is to tell Miles to sit tight as his dad dies in two days
They created an entire theory for why the collapses happen, created devices to predict coming canon events, made devices to try and contain the destruction of dimensions from canon events being disrupted and have an entire organisation with thousands of members to try and deal with these threats.
They have very obviously researched the topic at depth, are continuing to research it and dislike the idea that people have to die to maintain dimensions.
So again, what makes you think they haven't tried to find alternatives? Because they don't have one neatly prepared for Miles and his dad? Because you somehow interpreted that thousands of Peter Parkers never tried to figure out an alternative? That's real fricking stupid if you know even a single thing about the character.
Which 'experienced' and 'competent' Spider-people showed a lack of respect for Miguel? Gwen, the rookie? Peni, the kid who initially sided with Miguel and never disrespects him? Or do you mean Spider-Byte? The one character who arbitrarily goes against him with zero character writing for why? I sure hope you don't mean Hobie who is a literal punk Spider-Man who's very nature is to go against the status quo.
I'm getting this impression that people don't actually think about the Spider-Society properly. It's being viewed at a surface-level.
>So again, what makes you think they haven't tried to find alternatives?
The fact the movie never addresses it
>I'm getting this impression that people don't actually think about the Spider-Society properly. It's being viewed at a surface-level.
This one is correct, most normies don't think about it at all and just see "wow cool multiverse" without going into how fricked up the whole concept is, especially for Spider-Man, and all to make Miles look better, only Cinemaphile actually seems to acknowledge how moronic the whole thing is
Yeah people don't seem to get that most of those other spiders clearly didn't have their hearts in it and the only ones who really cared that deeply were Miguel and Jessica, and I get the sense most of the experienced and competent spider-people also don't have the most respect for those two.
If they didn’t have it in their hearts they would’ve done something.
ps4 spider-man goes against the theme of the movies, because it already has a Miles. Movie Miles can't be special if he sees that he's got a bunch of different, lame versions of himself just like Peter.
It's somewhat tolerable in the first movie because he legit sucks until he gets his powers under control but second movie was a bit cringe with Miles outsmarting a freaking army of Spiderpeople then jobbing to fricking HIMSELF.
Writers so obviously wanted to have their cake and eat it too there.
>he gets everything handed to him and just randomly is good at being Spiderman.
Did you not see the first movie?
>This NPC script
Miles literally spends the majority of the 1st movie being under powered and scared and spins the second running away with the help of others. He ends the movie as a hostage. I get it man, you're triggered by brown man. Be a man and just say Black person, don't go embarrassing yourself.
>Waaah racism has to be the reason for all my insecurities
Oh my god would you stop projecting because you cry about your favourite character being handed shit for free constantly? He is absolutely right. Miles is absolutely op whether he is black or not. All Miles needed was a good talk. He wasn't incompetent because it was hard but because he didn't believe in himself and needed to take the leap of faith. He constantly gets wins through his Venom Blast
>All Miles needed was a good talk
Isn't this the case with a lot of Peter's stories when he's struggling?
Depends on the run. Sometimes he has to come up with a different solution he can't bruteforce himself through even when he he has a talk
>All he needed was a good talk
>but the leap of faith talk that got him to start believing in himself doesn't count because it's off my NPC script
Saying you were racist was me being charitable. Otherwise you're high caliber moronic.
>Still crying about your racist boogeyman while making shit up
Can you talk a single sentence without crying and foaming out of your mouth? Seems like that really hard for you. I literally said the leap of faith counted.
>That NPC script at the word racist without actually reading the post
Yep, high caliber moron.
>Being afraid after getting someone killed isn't difficulty
>getting his ass kicked all movie isn't difficulty
>Nothing in the film before the climax counts because it conflicts with my NPC script
I've been seeing the word "Media literacy" tossed around a lot recently. Seeing the DSP logic here these days, yeah I'm thinking the education system needs work.
>Moves the goalpost after showing he couldn't moron
Yep, high caliber moron
>but the leap of faith talk that got him to start believing in himself doesn't count because it's off my NPC script
>He wasn't incompetent because it was hard but because he didn't believe in himself and needed to take the leap of faith.
Nta but are you moronic? Like. Genuinely?
You act like this isn't common for a shitton of spiderman stories in which the main problem is the lack of resolve/confidence because their powers basically turn them into super-athletes with insane reflexes and finesse easily. Miles at least had to learn the main swinging and crawling with Peter, remembering what he saw with blonde peter, and with his own powers unique to him is when he needed to self-actualize.
I don't see how he would be.
>spends the whole first movie failing
>had a year(?) to figure out the whole Spider-Man thing and does better in the second film
>still fails to capture the Spot and embarrasses himself in the process
>still frequently upsets his parents and teachers
>still manages to upset other Spider People with his antics
>still shows that he has room to learn from others like Hobie
The only thing that really was ridiculous was him managing to escape hundreds of Spider People.
Are you being willfully obtuse? Literally every encounter with the Spot is him fricking up. Hell, the end of the movie is him fricking up.
No, he makes mistakes.
What mistake does he make in Across the Spiderverse?
Only Miguel and Gwen made mistakes
He endorsed babypowder right before the scandal broke out
He got a B- in a language he speaks
He didn't preorder the cakes
Really scraping the bottom of the barrel. Says a lot when you can't name a single mistake that would actually affect the plot or Miles and are using a one-off joke that has more dislikes than it has views. What is the flaw about getting a B- when he can't study as Spider-Man but is still getting straight As everywhere exactly?
He also goes to the wrong universe amd got easily captured by the Prowler
Does aren't mistakes until we see how they resolve, it's more likely they'll end up helping him resolve anything than result in catastrophic consequences for him and others, and on top of all that they're not bad decisions, they're accidents he didn't have control over
By your logic Goku never makes mistakes because he always solves things using the Dragon Balls at the end.
Goku is a psychopath who causes untold damage and suffering to test his combat skills thinking bringing everyone with the Dragon Ball fixes everything, the constant status quo resets are what caused the worst era of Dragon Ball and I don't understand how everyone laps it up
Is funny people now call Goku a psycopath, the show itself never frames it as anything else than wholesome. Anyway, if Miles was so over-competent and infalible he would have notice his own mother having different color eyes. Or his jacket being a different color. Or once he went out with his Uncle and already knew something was off he wouldn't have been captured.
No that's largely inconsequential in the grand scheme of things
He lied to his parents and pussied out of coming clean to his mum
Please, OP, tell us your definition of a Gary Stu because that can mean literally fricking anything.
>Is Gandalf a Gary Stu?
>Is Gandalf a Gary Stu?
no, he is not the main character
Gandalf is a flat character. Is Aragorn a Gary stu?
no, he is not the main character
He is one of the main characters, and have plenty of the books passages just dedicated to him and his quest to become king. Also, explain to me how is he not a Gary Stu.
He’s a fricking angel. What’s Miles’ excuse
Wait, isn't "angel" o "half angel half devil" like a common Mary Sue trait?
Not for a side character that gets spun on his head and trapped in a tower because he lost to a human.
Human, you mean Saruman?
Usually it’s half Angel or devil to make them stronger than the average Angel or devil or human. Kinda like how miles gets double dare diversity by being Mexican and Black.
but "secret angel that's stronger than all the other angels" is definitely a Mary Sue trope.
>there was like this two twins but they were like really dumb and went away
>and this dirty hippie one who was super lame and stupid
>and I defeated the boss of the Angels (who didn't like me because I'm cooler than him and while he ask me to join he was still super jelly) , because he was secretly evil and now he's powerless and silly and can get killed by his minion
I consider a Mary sue a character that unnaturally warps reality around them for their benefit. As well as constantly being handed importance without the effort or struggle other characters would have. So yes I consider miles a Mary sue on all counts. It’s extremely obvious he’s being built up to be this super special guy who will save the entire multiverse with his literal existence because he’s so heccin special and unique
>Hercules is now a Gary Stu
Nta but is this supposed to be a gatcha? No one gives a single shit about Hercules and he might as well be a Gary Stu.
It's fine when it's part of his character. When it's not it sucks because there's a clear dissonance between how the character is portrayed and how he acts.
That's just humans in any fiction with aliens or other non-human races too yet the only reason people hate it in this case is they disapprove with the protagonist.
>That's just humans in any fiction with aliens or other non-human races too
How lucky then that all the characters but 1 second cameos are human in Across the Spiderverse so your comparison is completely useless and doesn't apply to what is being discussed.
I think that will be Gwen in the next movie actually
Nope
>Spider-Man # 2
Kek frick Cinemaphile for hating this movie
>10 million views
>69 million dislikes
Is it weird if I think Gary Stu=/=bad? One of my favorite characters in the comic medium is a Gary Stu, yet it's so entertaining to watch.
I only hate Gary Sues when other characters suffer because of him. I’m fine with GigaChad characters being super badass and perfect. Miles has to character assassinate the entire concept and multiverse of Spider-Man
Glad I am not alone in that.
>although he’s not Cinemaphile.
The example I had in mind was not Cinemaphile either but the character that you've mention are characters that I like a lot as well.
It really depends. Sometimes Gary Stu’s are great. You could consider Filmation He-Man and Bravestarr Gary Stu’s and they’re awesome. Old Radio Superman could be considered one and he’s one of the best versions.
But
is more on the money in that typically for them to REALLY be a Stu the world needs to be manipulated to make sure they’re great. Ultraman Zero is the first that comes to mind, although he’s not Cinemaphile.
What’s weird is he wasn’t until the second half of Spider-Verse 2. It was really weird how they suddenly threw that in.
Yes, people often misuse the term, applying it to any wish fulfillment character but he fits the proper use..
A Mary Sue or in this case Gary Stu is a character that's inserted into an existing setting like badly written fanfiction OC's. That is what the original Mary Sue was, a fanfiction character added to the Enterprise and where the term came from. Miles has all the hallmarks, new character added to Spiderman franchise and pushed inorganically, typically because they are the authors avatar or some other bias, not to be mistaken for characters that become popular more organically like Harley Quinn originally.
No, he's a transgender mary sue.
There's no doubt that into the Spiderverse Miles is not a Gary Stu.
Here are things that point to him not being one in Across the Spiderverse:
>Failed to impress college recruiter, who through exposition indicated despite his smarts his grades are slipping marginally
A gary stu would evoke the Two-Timer Date trope to deal with The Spot at the same time and nail the interview
>Isn't so loveable Gwen admits her real purpose of being in his world within minutes
>Is paranoid about who Hobie is
>Is jealous of Pavitr Prabhakar being a quicker study in being a Spider-man who has it all together despite being Spider-man for a shorter amount of time
>Over-confident in using a venom blast (which was shown to be something he worked on trying to find more utility with) on an energy shield but lacks the instinct and gets told what to do by Hobie
Compare and contrast with Rey just being good at jedi mind tricks out of the blue
>Does not save face when Miguel confronts him with the repercussions of saving captain Singh and the state of the multiverse
>Has to be reminded by Hobie how to get out of the energy shields
>Doesn't instantly BTFO Miguel on the shuttle
>Isn't smart enough to pick up on his mum's comment about his hair
>Fails to convince Aaron he's the Miles he knows
>Fricking jobs to an evil doppleganger
If you think he's considered perfect by the writers you need more copium
>Failed to impress college recruiter
What? She tells him he is great boy with great grades who could go to the college he wanted but she is disappointed he doesn't come to the classes (since he is Spider-Man).
>Isn't so loveable Gwen admits her real purpose
She literally is only there because Miles is so loveable to her. Gwen was never supposed to come to him.
>Is paranoid about who Hobie is
And he calls him the coolest Spider-Man five minutes later since Miles is a patient loveable good guy uwu.
>Is jealous of Pavitr Prabhakar being a quicker study
You really desperately don't want him to be called a Gary Stu do ya? He is not at all bothered by it, if anything he just finds Pavitr kinda annoying and that guy sucks Miles' dick later on and joins the Spider-Crew at the end.
>Over-confident in using a venom blast
??? He literally bails himself out of every situation with it and it works.
>Compare and contrast with Rey just being good at jedi mind tricks out of the blue
I can and I do. Both Rey and him constantly inspire the last generation and even this gen of characters into becoming better people, hell Peter B gets a kid only because of Miles. Both are extremely OP, Miles literally says he won against every Spider-Man. Every character has to be torn down to prop both up. He is literally just like Rey.
>Does not save face when Miguel
Miles's in the right you media illiterate moron. The point is Miguel is wrong and he wants to convince himself that he isn't as well.
>Has to be reminded by Hobie
He would have used it anyways.
>Doesn't instantly BTFO
He still btfo'd him with the Venom blast after escaping 1000s of Spider-Men lmao
>Isn't smart enough
He is literally so smart he can learn go to college that is about multiversal exploration and he doesn't have to study what
>Fails to convince Aaron
Because that Miles looks different and he blasted him in the head
>Fricking jobs to an evil dopplegangel
Rey jobs to an evil doppelganger too so he's Rey
Seems like you think the threshold for a Gary Stu is a fair bit lower than it actually is because the whole point is that Mary Stu is the greatest member of Star Fleet and everyone just loves her and she can't do no wrong, even Captain Kirk
>What? She tells him he is great boy with great grades who could go to the college he wanted but she is disappointed he doesn't come to the classes (since he is Spider-Man).
A gary stu would have A+ no matter what because they're just that amazing.
>She literally is only there because Miles is so loveable to her. Gwen was never supposed to come to him.
Yep - So there's her recon mission (no contact 0% commitment to Miles), then there's her mistake in spending way too much time with Miles anyway (contact but still keeping things from him 75% commitment to Miles) however, to quote the original fanfic "Captain Kirk came up to her. "Oh, Lieutenant, I love you madly. Will you come to bed with me?"" the level of instant love is so great that secrets aren't even a question.
The fact Gwen didn't fulfill her mission shows that she's fallen victim for his unique brand of chemistry, yes. But she's not being Captain Kirk here.
>And he calls him the coolest Spider-Man five minutes later since Miles is a patient loveable good guy uwu.
Yeah I'm saying he's paranoid, which is not a trait a Gary Stu should ever have, they are always in the most mature and wonderful emotional state.
>You really desperately don't want him to be called a Gary Stu do ya? He is not at all bothered by it, if anything he just finds Pavitr kinda annoying and that guy sucks Miles' dick later on and joins the Spider-Crew at the end.
He does a double take when Pavitr mentions the number of months
>N-No your threshold is just smaller even though every comparison to Rey I wanted to do can be made
Lol
>A gary stu would have A+
Says who? They only need to be an author's overpowered self insert. He's still a top student who is ready to learn how to travel interdimensionally despite not learning
>then there's her mistake in spending way too much time with Miles anyway
I don't care about your shitty Star Trek. Fact is Gwen came to Miles because she loved him too much endangering the multiverse as well. That is a Gary Stu moment for Miles. They barely knew eachother.
>Okay so the really slow close up on Hobie was because Miles was already thinking of using it
He would have used the venom blast because that's his signiture move. Hobie just gave him a reminder in that moment.
>If Miguel got BTFO'd he'd be unconscious
No he wouldn't need. He lost. The thing he wanted didn't happen and that was because Miles beat him with the same technique he got away with. Miguel is the loser in that battle. What a cope.
>Gary Stus have Sherlock Holmes intellect
Again you're making shit up. Rey also isn't Sherlock Holmes smart since she needs books to become even more op, that still makes her a mary sue. And you can even argue Miles is smarter than Sherlock because he learns interdimensional travel and is able to use a multiverse computer to get back home lmao
>Yeah I'm saying he's paranoid
Bro you just brought up sherlock homes intellect and part of that is being paranoid to danger or really bad vibes.
>He does a double take
So? Like I said at most Miles is mildly annoyed at the start and that guy still deepthroats him
>Doesn't matter
It actually does matter otherwise there would be no Gary Stu or Mary Sue in existence with your criteria. Any other thing is just cope from you.
>I dunno what you're talking about I didn't see the second or third movie but okay
You brought the character up so deal with it when we're talking about them you loser lmao
>I don't care about your shitty Star Trek
>Again you're making shit up.
>Says who?
The people who invented Mary Sue as a parody in the fricking first place moron.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue#History
Read the explanation the editors gave about what the literal definition was that was a demonstration of the drivel they were being sent to publish too often so you know what the term is.
>He would have used the venom blast because that's his signiture move. Hobie just gave him a reminder in that moment.
Then they would've had him just do it fricknugget but they didn't.
>Bro you just brought up sherlock homes intellect and part of that is being paranoid to danger or really bad vibes.
Again they are always in the most mature and wonderful emotional state. Sherlock Holmes is more of a Gary Stu than Miles but also isn't one himself because he has crippling flaws. Miles has flaws as well but you're just seething for no reason over an okay character
>So? Like I said at most Miles is mildly annoyed at the start
A Gary Stu doesn't get annoyed
>It actually does matter otherwise there would be no Gary Stu or Mary Sue in existence with your criteria. Any other thing is just cope from you.
There are plenty, go read 10 fanfics and you'll find one
>You brought the character up so deal with it when we're talking about them you loser lmao
Because in the one movie I have seen with Rey in it she is a Mary Sue? I can't talk about if she is in other movies or if they reduced the level of Mary Suedom
Mary Sue and Gary Stu definition has changed a lot over the year you disingenious moron. We're neither dealing with Star Trek nor with actual female written fanfiction although Across the Spiderverse is written like one. Going NUH UH STAR TREK FANFICTION HISTORY SAID A DIFFERENT THING is absolutely pointless and I don't give a shit. No movie would fulfill that criteria if we followed your version of it even the ones you bring up.
>Then they would've had him just do it fricknugget
No because then they can show that Hobie is on Miles' side since the latter is a Gary Stu who constantly inspires the people around him with very little
>Again they are always in the most mature and wonderful emotional state.
No they're not. Watch a Sherlock Book before talking shit. That guy often gets frustrated and is paranoid at some point. Even the adaptations where he is a Gary Stu like Sherlock have him act like a manchild. You constantly move the goalpost to "Okay he does it but he doesn't do it like in my very specific headcanon definition, so he can't be a Gary Stu"
>A Gary Stu doesn't get annoyed
moron. They can and will get annoyed. Sherlock does get annoyed. The character Rey you brought up as Mary Sue gets annoyed in the movie you watched. Fricking moron.
>go read 10 fanfics and you'll find one
I am already reading yours and it doesn't convince me. All I see is damage control. You could have just said "Okay you're right but I still like him" instead of doing these mental hoops to convince yourself that calling other Mary Sues despite them being the same is totally different compared to your Not!Gary Stu
>Because in the one movie I have seen with Rey in it she is a Mary Sue?
So Miles is a Gary Stu as well then because he fulfills all the criteria you put on Rey
The tl;dr of Mary Sue is that she does everything perfect and everyone loves her unconditionally
That has not changed.
You've got severe mental problems if this bothers you so much because the whole joke is a character who is the 99th percentile in everything, and if they make a mistake or admit a fault it's actually a hidden strength.
Miles is above average but far from 99th percentile doing everything perfectly.
When writing a character you can disqualify them from being a Mary Sue pretty easily which is why there are hardly any true Mary Sues.
Dunno why you want to use a connotation that makes you think there are a lot more in pop culture than there actually is. Given your leaps in "logic" you must have shit blood pressure getting upset about thing so often.
>That has not changed.
So why are you changing it every time you respond you fricking moron
>No you see you are mentally ill if you call my gary stu character a gary stu but that other character I mention totally is one even though it also doesn't fit my criteria haven't you watched Star Trek and read all my fanfics UwU
It must be hard for you to just memorize some lines you said to me before
>Miles is above average
He is so good he can be Spider-Man, be an ace at school to the point he can learn multiversal travelling without learning, people he meets love him and get kids because of him (some even put the multiverse aka trillions in danger in their eyes just because they love him so much), can beat 1000s of Spider-Man and Miguel and his Spider-Man is the only on who sees looking away from people dying as the objectively wrong thing to do. He is a Gary Stu. That is fact no matter how much fanfic you want to write.
>When writing a character you can disqualify them from being a Mary Sue pretty easily
Yeah but I don't. You want me to disqualify him because Miles is your favourite character and you're insecure about shilling a Gary Stu/Mary Sue
>use a connotation
You are the one constantly doing that so he won't be called one. I gave you the reason how he is and you yourself put a Mary Sue as an example and they overlapped hard. Depite that you don't want to accept it even when it's on your moronic terms.
Dude I have no idea what you're inhaling but I'm the only one who posted a definition of a Mary Sue yet you insist it has changed despite the fact the wikipedia article doesn't acknowledge any updates
You've got issues pretending that I am changing a definition because apparently a comparable thing happens to Ray in a movie I haven't seen (protip: if a character is a mary sue in one story they don't have to be one in the next one) yet you still haven't proven how you've got a definition instead of some connotation
You need to commit yourself back to special education classes
>Dude I have no idea what you're inhaling but I'm the only one who posted a definition of a Mary Sue
You are constantly contradicting your own definition you illiterate monkey. How often do you need to be told this? Are you just flying over what I tell you because it's getting kind of annoying now how often you refuse to respond to a single thing I tell you? I guess it has to be because you don't have an argument but I still hope you're just moronic and can't read.
>apparently a comparable thing happens to Ray in a movie I haven't seen
Bro I literally told you it happens to the character in the movie you watched and wanted to use as an argument. If bringing up the other movies as well is a problem, then you shouldn't have brought her up since you can't make a good faith argument without crumbling. My god you're stupid
>You need to commit yourself back to special education classes
You need to learn how to read before telling anyone to do anything. I guess you can't respond anymore to what I told you since your responses are getting smaller and smaller and you convientely flew over my list of grievances yet again. I guess I accept your concession. Miles is a Gary Stu.
It's not worth my time to dissect point by point the insipid ramblings of someone who can't provide a definition when they tell me my definition is outdated.
Weird to say a character in a story written by some people means that another story with that character written by other people transfers all statuses. Is your brain damaged so bad you can't think a single word without committing composition fallacy?
>I-It's not worth it
Easy way to say you don't got an argument. You really don't have to be so insecure.
>Weird to say a character in a story written by some people means that another story with that character written by other people transfers all statuses.
No it's not weird otherwise you yourself wouldn't have started making that comparison to give your arguments weight. Are you saying you're that brain damaged because you brought Rey up and couldn't respond anymore when that got turned around to show you how Miles is the same as her down to even defeating the anthonist but not making him unconscious when blowing them the frick up? You know the thing you told me Gary Stue/Mary Sues had to do to be a Gary Stu/Mary Sue?
It's really easy to link a definition. I'm waiting.
>Miles is the same as her
From what you tell me he's the same as her because they both do a thing where they lose to an evil doppleganger... Which a Mary Sue cannot do.
I don't really know anything about that because my only reference to Rey was her mind tricking in a movie where she does plenty of Mary Sue things.
Waiting, why? You still couldn't respond once to what I was telling you, I'm the one who is waiting right now. Are you hoping I won't mention it that you have no arguments to give when you're moving the goalpost? Reply to what I say to you and then I'll give you answers as well. That's how conversations work. I've been quoting and directly replying to you everytime instead of talking to the void like you but whatever. I guess Miles isn't just above average then since you couldn't defend your position. He is a gary stu in your definition which I cleared up when I listed in what ways he is.
>they both do a thing where they lose to an evil doppleganger.
Why are you dismissing the other things I told you about the movie you have watched. Are you ready to admit that she wasn't a mary sue and you were just moronic trying to find anything, ANYTHING so Miles would look better than the character you haven't watched a movie about but were very confident in saying she is a Mary Sue? Is she now a Mary Sue in the movie you watched or not? If not why did you think she was a Mary Sue in that movie when your own definition doesn't hold up against it. I've already asked you this multiple times now. If you can't respond directly to anything I have asked you, then don't even bother responding because at this point it's just another concession you could have just given me by saying nothing
>Waiting, why? You still couldn't respond once to what I was telling you
Because you're still not showing me how the definition of Mary Sue has changed and until then we're at an impasse because I gave you a definition and you just keep spamming "says who" and "don't care" when I show you how the definition doesn't apply.
>Is she now a Mary Sue in the movie you watched or not?
Yes because someone can be a Mary Sue in one movie and not in it's sequel. In fact, if there's significant chatter about a character being one in their first movie it's good business to not make them one in the subsequent film. The Force Awakens is considered pretty bad because it ticks off so many criteria for Mary Sue. If she fought an evil doppleganger in that movie she technically wouldn't be a Mary Sue because that is not being perfect. But that didn't happen in The Force Awakens. So in The Force Awakens she is one, regardless of any other appearances the character has in other stories.
>ecause you're still not showing me how the definition of Mary Sue
A Mary Sue needs to be in fanfiction of a official product being an author's self insert if we used your defintion. Across the Spiderverse isn't fanfiction. It's the official product. You yourself also used an official product for an example of a Mary Sue. The term has changed to mean a broken meaning overpowered female character lacking in flaws. The Gary Stu being the male varient. Here is a now official defintion of a Mary Sue the first one you will see when you search it up on google
>a type of female character who is depicted as unrealistically lacking in flaws or weaknesses.
See how it doesn't mention fanfiction or Star Trek or flaws being 100% abscent. The term has become way broader. Miles is unrealistically lacking in flaws or weaknesses at least in Across the Memeverse. Face it. You are moronic.
>in The Force Awakens she is one
>A Gary Stu doesn't get annoyed
Is what you yourself said but she gets annoyed. She also doesn't btfo Kylo Ren by your own logic since the ground cracks stopping the fight even though he clearly lost. She doesn't have perfect emtional control which was also a criteria you put in so she can't be a Mary Sue. She also isn't A+ smart, just regular smart since she still needs to get told how to use a blaster weapon by Han Solo. Damn guy you lost on all fronts and your prime example for a Mary Sue can't be a Mary Sue according to you. Yet still you couldn't read and reply to what I told. I still had to repeat myself here since I mentioned the first movie multiple times you apparently watched. All someone can guess is you're a parrot who only uses argument you heard from other people most likely e-celebrities.
>your definition
Apart from the fact I was drawing your attention this this particular paragraph?
Mary Sue stories—the adventures of the youngest and smartest ever person to graduate from the academy and ever get a commission at such a tender age. Usually characterized by unprecedented skill in everything from art to zoology, including karate and arm-wrestling. This character can also be found burrowing her way into the good graces/heart/mind of one of the Big Three [Kirk, Spock, and McCoy], if not all three at once. She saves the day by her wit and ability, and, if we are lucky, has the good grace to die at the end, being grieved by the entire ship.[11]
Nothing about fanfiction. Stop strawmanning.
> The term has become way broader
No shit genius you're referencing a simpler definition that doesn't discredit the one I've been using this entire time
>Is what you yourself said but she gets annoyed. She also doesn't btfo Kylo Ren by your own logic since the ground cracks stopping the fight even though he clearly lost. She doesn't have perfect emtional control which was also a criteria you put in so she can't be a Mary Sue.
It's a fricking spectrum and Rey is a lot higher in particular for the reasons she's listed on the Wikipedia page for Mary Sues in general for fricks sake she appears in google image search for Gary Stu
>No shit genius
>Still holds on to a single minded definition despite knowing that
Like I said. You're a moron. No debate about. Really proven here. There is no strawman. Do you even fricking know what that is even
>It's a fricking spectrum and Rey is a lot higher
Oh NOW it's a spectrum gee and only in a way so you don't look like a moron despite that contradicting everything you have said so far with you absolutist statements about how Mary Sues/Gary Stues can't or can do this or that what are the odds
>There is no strawman
>A Mary Sue needs to be in fanfiction of a official product being an author's self insert if we used your defintion
Black person you told me my definition when I told you where you could find mine much much earlier.
You are literally pretending I said something I didn't say and trying to prove you're right by taking that fake argument apart.
>Oh NOW it's a spectrum gee
>Compare and contrast with Rey
>Seems like you think the threshold for a Gary Stu is a fair bit lower than it actually is
>So there's her recon mission (no contact 0% commitment to Miles), then there's her mistake in spending way too much time with Miles anyway (contact but still keeping things from him 75% commitment to Miles)
>Sherlock Holmes is more of a Gary Stu than Miles
Wow look at all these comparative words I use to show a sense of scale about how characters are less or more of a Mary Sue or Gary Stu
amazing it's almost like different traits or actions can
can accumilate in someone being more of a Mary Sue or less of one
You are literally saying that one can't be a Mary Sue while the other one is with extremes. It wasn't a spectrum to you before see here
>Compare and contrast with Rey just being good at jedi mind tricks out of the blue
>which is not a trait a Gary Stu should ever have
>gary stu would have A+ no matter what because they're just that amazing.
>A Gary Stu could tell you instantly if someone is their real mum or a doppleganger
You are using binary absolutes and not just once or twice. Constantly which is the opposite of a spectrum. Learn english, esl.
>??? He literally bails himself out of every situation with it and it works.
He goes, "stand back guys, I've been trying something new, I got this" and FAILS to use it like he thinks he might be able to?
>Miles's in the right you media illiterate moron. The point is Miguel is wrong and he wants to convince himself that he isn't as well.
I wasn't saying he was in the wrong? I was saying he is incapable of surviving the berating and argument, a Gary Stu would use facts and logic and leave their antagonist a weeping mess in the fetal position
>He would have used it anyways.
Okay so the really slow close up on Hobie was because Miles was already thinking of using it?
>He still btfo'd him with the Venom blast after escaping 1000s of Spider-Men lmao
If Miguel got BTFO'd he'd be unconscious. You don't know what any of these terms are, do you?
>He is literally so smart he can learn go to college that is about multiversal exploration and he doesn't have to study what
Gary Stus have Sherlock Holmes intellect. A Gary Stu could tell you instantly if someone is their real mum or a doppleganger
>Because that Miles looks different and he blasted him in the head
Doesn't matter, a Gary Stu would have the guile to convince a judge in a thunderstorm they're sober and dry.
>Rey jobs to an evil doppelganger too so he's Rey
I dunno what you're talking about I didn't see the second or third movie but okay? By definition a Gary Stu should win all their fights and can not job so whatever I guess Rey didn't embody a Mary Sue at the time either?
Gotta say, this is 100% accurate and anon did his homework. If this were a court case, anon would have just aced and won it.
Gotta say, this is 100% wrong and anon is a moron. If this were a court case, anon would have went to prison receiving a second butthole by Glen Stacy.
>a cosmic Black person
>an outsider from everywhere
>gary stu
Sure.
Honestly, I didn't think he was until this movie. People complain about him In the comics but they never did anything as ridiculous as showing him solo everyone in the Spiderverse stories. Shocking Peter isn't as bad as beating EVERYONE.
People, remember the law of inverse ninjas here. Spiderman is the ultimate ninja in a way, so he's just as vulnerable. It totally tracks that thousands of spidermen on one side lose to one on the other when you take that into account.
>showing him solo everyone in the Spiderverse stories
He didn't solo anyone. He fricking ran from them and got caught multiple times and just managed to barely slip away. Miles also had the advantage of his spider-sense since he was being pursued and not the pursuer and his father's life was in danger. Most impressive thing he did was score a nice kick on Miguel who couldn't even really defend himself since he needed to keep his claws dug into the train to stay on since he can't stick.
Why the frick do we even say Gary Stu when Harry Potter is right there?
Both can be at the same time? Also this is Cinemaphile, not /misc/tv/
>Also this is Cinemaphile, not /misc/tv/
I don't get it.
>right there
where? that bastard hasn't been relevant in years
Yeah, Harry himself is a big reason I couldn’t into the books or the movies. He’s just way too special and too good at stuff, even if he’s in trouble he doesn’t feel like he’s in trouble. The only time he ever feels like he’s in deep shit is whenever Voldemort’s around.
nuh uh
>can't control his main power most of the film
>finally controls at the end where everything is on the line
no he's not
More like troony Fuu
No I wouldn't call him that, he's not competent or universally liked enough in universe. He lacks any serious flaws though, but it's more like he's just too boring to have any big issues.
Name one actual irreversible mistake Miles made by making a wrong decision, that's not immediately fixed or undone by him or someone else in the movie
>he killed Peter A
He didn't, he was just there and Peter made the mistakes, Peter's death is immediately undone by the movie implying Miles replacing him makes it all good, Peter's headstone being knocked over, and MJ immediately forgetting him to go to Kingpin's dinner are all fine, May is fine with her nephew dying because a new kid will now risk his life trying to Spider-Man around, Miles celebrates his dead criminal uncle who helped kill Peter rather than celebrating Peter
>he broke the goober
Which was immediately fixed by Peni
>he killed Aaron
He didn't, he was just himself, Aaron killed himself through inaction
>he made Spot
He didn't, Spot made himself, literally nothing is ever Miles' fault
Name one actual deserved win Miles got through hard work, original strength of character, and struggle
>he gets better powers because uhhh..
>he beats Kingpin because uhhh..
>Gwen falls for him immediately because uhhh..
>everyone wants to be friends with him because uhhh..
>Peter is motivated to have kids because of him because uhhh..
>he outruns and outsmarts every Spider-Man ever because uhhh..
Literally the entire premise of ATSV is "Miles is a Gary Stu.. and that's a good thing!"
The only argument someone could make is that he couldn't control his powers until he got a pepp talk but that might as well have been because the Spider that bit him was from another universe unlike the others.
And then he goes from klutz who can't do anything to experienced Spider-Man handling advanced situations in the span of a day, genuinely baffling how they fall into every single OC trap
They actually had a scene of Miles falling down his face when he truly becomes Spider-Man but twitter and reddit thought Spider-Man failing but learning is MCU humor that would have ruined the movie
>he gets better powers because uhhh..
Because different a spider bit him so he has different specs.
>he beats Kingpin because uhhh..
Because Kingpin is a strong human but is never a serious threat to any spider-man and the only reason he killed blond peter is because peter was injured from being shoved into an unstable collider, tanked the explosion from it, and was crushed under rubble. I'm honestly surprised Miles had as much trouble as he did.
>Gwen falls for him immediately because uhhh..
She does not. She does get gradually charmed by him through the movie mostly due to his openness, good nature, and her sympathizing as he's in a place she was before and knows how hard the struggle of being spider-man is makes her more receptive towards him than she'd usually be. She's also been really lonely since Peter's death in her universe.
>everyone wants to be friends with him because uhhh..
Because he's a good kid trying to be friends with them and wants to help them get back home even if it puts his life at risk and the other spider-people aren't buttholes.
>Peter is motivated to have kids because of him because uhhh..
Because his time with Miles warms him to the idea of kids not being that bad, his being able to help and guide Miles a bit despite his flaws gives him a good dose of confidence, and seeing the kid grow into his own over the course of the movie gave him a bit of pride and made him think that maybe having a kid could be a nice experience. It's not that he didn't want kids, he was just scared.
>he outruns and outsmarts every Spider-Man ever because uhhh..
He had spider-sense advantage since he feels like he's in danger while the others aren't, the spider-people kept getting in each other's way, and he didn't outsmart every spiderman it's not like they all knew he could go invisible and most of them like miguel just assumed he was a kid in a panic with no real plan due to how emotional he was.
That's the how, not the why
Dumbass motherfricker can't figure out why someone would ever find Miles likable or motivated by him. Is it that unbelievable because nobody likes you or looks up to you.
Rewatch the whole fricking movie and actually figure out the moronic questions you're asking.
It literally isn't.
>no argument
>malding about this still
this summer is going to be torture
Nah he just has MC plot armor
Is The Weeknd
No. He has laundry list of flaws that are very clearly shown in the film. He lacks Peter's self sufficiency and has problems taking responsibilty for his mistakes.
When we’re those shown?
He also doesn't take things seriously
He doesn't?
I thought Spider-Man's thing is that he's kind of a clown.
>Peter's self sufficiency
What the hell does that even mean? Bro is part of a death cult and needed a contrived multiverse event with a kid by his side to not stay divorced from his wife and get back to his own home.
>has problems taking responsibilty for his mistakes
Like? Because the movie itself presents it as everyone else making the mistake by not telling Miles all the facts. Miles himself wants to be free but can't since everyone gets on his case and the movie ends on Miles saying "Nah Imma do my own thang". Funny you also mention responsibility as well considering Peter wants Ben to die when he has the power and all the time in the world to stop it from happening.
>What the hell does that even mean?
Peter is more self sufficient, historically. Needs less help from other heroes. Miles has more powers but the drawback is that he doesn't know how to use them well.
>Because the movie itself presents it as everyone else making the mistake by not telling Miles all the facts
It can be both. Miles not being willing to listen when confronted, Gwen and Peter not telling him enough information.
>Peter is more self sufficient, historically.
Peter would also not let his Uncle Ben die again, historically. Spiderverse though says the opposite.
>Needs less help from other heroes
No he definitely needs help especially in these movies.
>Miles has more powers but the drawback is that he doesn't know how to use them well.
For a hot minute maybe but he has absolutely mastered them at the end of ItSv which takes place over the course of a weekend at tops.
>It can be both
No it can't because the movie presents a different fact. You want Miles to be wrong here but the movie itself doesn't say so as much.
If you have to ask, well I think you already know.
No.
Thank you for creating this thoughtful debate, OP.
why did they make Miles a cuck? it's clear the message that Gwen was fricking the Anarchist socialist spider, everyone understood that
>Is Movie Miles a Gary Stu?
no he literally goes to the wrong universe thinking hes going to save his dad because hes acting like a rash moron
>no he literally goes to the wrong universe thinking hes going to save his dad because hes acting like a rash moron
To be fair, that's more the machine's frickup because it sent him to the universe the spider that bit him was originally from rather than where he is from.
No anon he's a proud black mixed race latinx bottom of colour and implying he's a Gary Stu is just racist white washing!
Now shut up and get back to digging! We need a bigger hole to bury all other Spider-characters in so that Miles be the very best, like no one ever was . . . unless you want your favourite redhead to get rebooted for a modern audience. You wouldn't want that, would you anon?
>Gary Stu
When will this term be erased from the public conscious? It never contributes anything to discourse.
>Protagonist generally succeeds at his goal by the end of a film
>ZOMG GARY STEWART!!!!
You don't like him cause he's black.
He is really flawed and I don't like him, so no.
a cuck
Sauce good anon?
When I see Gwen, I don't simply want to frick her, as most here do. Rather, I want to wear her outfit and mince about with my wiener tucked, like a fricking troon
In all seriousness spider-sense makes you a near instant expert because it'll start buzzing if you make a wrong move.
Silly anon, Gary Stu isn't the archetype you're looking for: he's what we call a "Main character".
It's a title that fits him and the story warps around his successes because they're usually used in a way that evokes catharsis after the story also highlights all of his failures and personal arcs. Archetypes like "Gary Stu" serve to point out blatant OC type characters or Author Self Inserts or Creator Pets that are there to be disgustingly perfect and unflawed, but when you're discussing the main character in a superhero flick who still has a ton of bad things happen to him, well....
The archetype I'd give you, OP, would be "homosexual" for example. Hope this clears everything up.
Gary Stu/Mary Sue has truely been watered down to the point of meaninglessness.
being black is living life on easy mod
literally accomplish nothing yet still get praised and showered with money and opportunities
Sure anon. Every black person on the planet is rich and successful.
No.
Why do morons insist on stretching the definition of Mary Sue to the point that a character been good at things qualifies?
Peter sucked shit originally. He got his ass kicked regularly and attacked the Fantastic 4 because he thought they were making fun of him. Don’t talk about shit you don’t know.
>broke into the Baxter building
>attacked the Fantastic Four
>demanded a job
>insulted them when he found out they didn't offer a paying position
Early Pete was something else.
Not to mention the fact that the reason Peter didn't fit in wasn't really because his peers were dicks. It was because Peter was a fricking butthole and he fantasised about killing people for perceived slights. He even gets invited out all the time and he turns it down by being an butthole or joins them and is an butthole.
Peter wasn't some uwu good boy or whatever the frick. He was a genuine prick as a teenager. He matured out of that shit naturally as he gained confidence and realised he was kind of just a jerk.
His peers were still dicks that shoved him around and mocked him, and for what it’s worth, he never thought about using his powers to kill his bullies, and just wanted to use them to make money, since he didn’t care about anyone but Uncle Ben, Aunt May, and himself. He started standing up for himself and talking back afterwards, and even if he was a bit of a prick at times, he’d still try to do the right thing in the end.
Maybe not kill but he definitely contemplated hurting them before. For context this is after he said JJJ could be right about Spider-Man at a gathering (that he was invited to) which irritated Flash. And Flash calling Peter out for being a coward is after several previous issues where Peter runs away or hides to become Spider-Man, meaning he earned a reputation for it at this point.
And yeah sure Flash always calls Peter weak but Peter always retorts by calling him a moron. Peter mocks his lack of intellect, Flash mocks his lack of strength and it's almost always Flash who is actively trading barbs with Peter. Even then Flash and co. always made an effort to try and include him and give him a chance.
Peter's aggression was often unwarranted as well. One time he crashed a party Johnny was attending and then picked a fight with him, forcing the rest of the Fantastic Four to step in and stop them. Why did he do it? Because he felt envious of Johnny's popularity.
Peter isn't a Gary Stu since he loses most of his initial encounters and experiences loss regularly. He wasn't even the best at crime fighting, his stories were always get beat up, show up to work and talk to Jonah, the villain of the week is the hot topic, villain is stopped.The genius aspect was a bit much, but I've always found the webshooters to be a weakness. He was never on Reed or Stark level, that's new shit starting with the symbiote in Ultimate. Otto in Superior showed Peter wasn't THAT intelligent, since Otto had to get a degree and run a corporation for Peter because Peter couldn't. Every time it looked up for Peter pre-80's, life would shut him down. Between the Stacy family, Osborns, and his failed marriage the man knows loss.
Peters problem is that he will never grow out of being a poor person who can't juggle responsibility or keep a girl or a definite supporting cast due to status quote. If you want a real Mary Sue, go look at anything involving the name Gwen in the last two decades.
Wait I've seen people say that Peter B isn't accurate to the comics because his life is bad, wouldn't it make a lot of sense for an older Peter to end up with a terrible life because that's seemingly always been a point of his story?
One of the biggest complaints about the comics is that Peter is just constantly failing when one of the appeals of his story was seeing him mature and grow. Sure things got worse in some ways (such as people dying) but they got better in other ways (such as Peter's love for MJ and their marriage). It was rather grounded, Peter would suffer but his suffering was never for nothing. Comparatively modern comics just has him take one step forward then like twenty steps back.
In other words, the thing that made Peter appealing isn't the idea that his life is terrible. It's the idea that all of his struggles ultimately don't stop him from finding the good in life. It's as inspiring as Superman but in a different measure, that measure being Peter as relatable to the average joe who is struggling to make ends meet and sometimes loses sight of why he fights. Peter represents the man that rises above those struggles and come out of it fulfilled.
Peter being a manchild in his 30s or 40s isn't appealing. Because a massive part of his character is growing up and becoming a more mature and responsible man over the course of his life. It's one of the many reasons for why OMD is universally panned and treated as the point of no return for the character, because it spits all over his development as a man.
In short, Peter struggles but it's never a downward spiral. He ultimately grows and becomes a better man. It's a tale of a boy growing into a man, a good man.
>Peter represents the man that rises above those struggles and come out of it fulfilled.
That's not the point of his character still. He has to deal with superhero misery more than any superhero in fiction and pays for it dearly which just leaves him butter sweet even in his most good moments. I don't think I've read a story where Peter finally gets a natural progression of adjusting to suffering in the plot of him still being a punching bag, the point of the character is idealistic perseverance not maturing and getting a break, otherwise he'd be supported as one of the goat heroes alongside the Avengers and Fantastix Four with a better lifestyle than just a bumbling average joe.
Peter is legitimately an off putting person who pretty thoughtless with others feelings and is quick to anger. What are miles character flaws?
He's black.
Nothing. Everyone loves him and praises him.
You really expect Cinemaphile to know what that is? Half of these guys are convinced he's a Gary Stu because a girl likes him.
The Garyest of Stus.
>"Miles has no flaws"
>*Thread mentions all the flaws he has*
>name a flaw
>he's too perfect!
>Name a flaw
>Reckless
>Emotional
>Rebellious
>Self-sabotaging
>Confrontational
>Pretty fricking clumsy for a Spider-Man compared to others
>Poor time-management on par with Peter's
>Intelligent but like his father says also so stupid
>Adapts and learns quickly but gets over confident win a fight goes his way at the start and gets thrown off once someone gets the upper-hand like with spot and kingpin
>Has a habit of hyping himself up over victories victories only for the universe to quickly humble him. See the 'I beat them all. I let them have it' only to realize he fricked up his own genius plan and didn't realize his DNA is mixed with the spider that bit him scene.
>Has a puerto rican mother but sucks at spanish
>Went for Gwen when Peni was right there
Peter is all of these minus Puerto Rican. It’s pathetic what lengths you’re willing to go to justify miles’ existence.
dude youre so sexy rn pls frick me
Miles is as much of a gary stu as Peter Parker is.
Nah Peter fricks up all the time and grows from it, Miles' "growth" comes from others around him fricking up, such as Aaron being a criminal or Peter and Gwen not telling him about canon events, nothing is ever Miles' fault.
>nothing is ever Miles' fault
If he stayed at school and did his fricking assignment like he was supposed to instead of going to see his uncle that night like the rebellious, self-sabotaging child he is literally none of this shit would be happening. People are so quick to defend Miles' saying it wasn't his fault he got bit but it actually was. He was somewhere he wasn't supposed to be due to his own unwillingness to even try living up to his potential and shirking his responsibilities and the expectations his parents have for him of his own damn will when he got bit. Not to mention if he at least hadn't been a coward hiding for his life while Peter was fighting despite having the power to help, that Peter would have still been alive, the dimensions wouldn't be in danger, Aaron wouldn't have gotten killed, spot would still be some beta scientist, and his dad's life wouldn't be in jeopardy right now and Earth 42 wouldn't be a complete shithole because the Miles who actually was supposed to be bit would have been Spider-man there. Am I saying Miles is wrong for wanting to just be a kid and he's a horrible person for wanting to hang with his uncle? Hell no. But he made a decision that night and that decision caused a frickton of collateral damage. Sorry anti-milesgays and milesgays. Miguel was right.
Nope, all of that is an accidental development that's not his fault, unlike Peter whose mistakes are "bring dangerous villains to your aunt > dangerous villains kill aunt", Miles had no idea what his decision could result in and he made a seemingly harmless choice any teen would make
Doesn't matter. Peter also made 'harmless' choice any teen would make and it cost him one of the most important people in his life with Ben. It's still a consequence of own decision to be selfish and irresponsible and Miles did the same and now the consequences are biting him in ass. Just because you cannot foresee the results of your choices does not make the results of them any less real.
>Also MCU shit
No that's Peter being absolutely moronic. My brain refuses to accept that Peter would bring not one but several incredibly dangerous villains to be anywhere near his aunt for any purpose and even if she fussed at him about his safety he'd prioritize her safety above all else even if she got angry at him. And it sucks because I genuinely think her death is really well done but I get so pissed off when I think about Peter being that fricking stupid. I wish they just made it so that she was nearby or something and just ran into the building on parental instinct once Peter stopped communicating with her or some shit with walkie talkies of face time or whatever I'd be fine with it but no we get this moronic shit of let's just have my powerless aunt sit in this apartment with wackjobs who've all tried to kill me in the past 12 hours.
The fact that you think "standing by when you can help and are being asked to help" and "going out instead of doing an assignment" are the same shows exactly the level of delusion Milesgays operate on
The point is Peter wasn't supposed to go there in the first place. Ben never would have been in that position if Peter never fricked around for selfish gain to begin with. Him letting the robber go is another layer to his guilt. Whereas Miles' was going with his uncle instead of staying in school and standing by and watching Peter get killed. Neither is truly responsible in the sense they meant for these things to happen but they did due to a combination of selfishness and inaction and the consequences of the actions are what led to pretty much everything else in their lives for better or worse.
Peter was being an outstanding ass, Miles was just being a regular teen
tbf while Peter was a bit of an ass, in this case he was literally just trying to make some money because, you know, poorgay.
>Just because you cannot foresee the results of your choices does not make the results of them any less real.
It does make them your fault vs not your fault, and nothing is ever allowed to be Miles' fault
Yet he still chooses to celebrate one of peters murderers with a painting on the side of a police station
The reason why it is so hard to define what character traits define a Mary Sue is because Mary Sues aren't characters at all - they're stories. This is why adding character flaws to characters doesn't make them not be Mary Sues. This is why flawed characters can be Mary Sues. This is why which character appears to be a Mary Sue can rotate from character to character in a story, as each focus character ends up "being one" in turn.
A Mary Sue can have any set of character traits you want them to have. The real problem is the story they're put in. It doesn't matter how simple or how complex a character you make the protagonist, if the story is still a Mary Sue story, then the story will remain a Mary Sue story. You can put the most interesting, deep character you can imagine into a Mary Sue story, and because the world as well as the story revolves around the protagonist, they "become" a Mary Sue.
Worrying about a character being a Mary Sue is backwards - the problem is never that a character is a Mary Sue, it is that the story is a Mary Sue story. No amount of tinkering with a character will correct the flaw. Even having another character take the lead in some crucial scenes won't fix the problem - it is the plot which is ruining the story, not the character.
It is easy to get lost in the weeds, and think about a character as affecting a story in a certain way; however, it is important to remember that it is the author who is ultimately making everything happen. It is the story itself which is creating the intrinsic Mary Sueness of the plot. While a character in a Mary Sue story may be poorly written, the real suspicion needs to fall on the story itself.
He spends 90% of the first movie getting carried by the other spiders. He starts the second movie by failing to recognize how incredible Spot's powers already are, underestimating him, and letting him escape. He doesn't land a single hit on Spot after that and even gets in the way when Gwen had a clear shot on him. Pavitr saves him. He would've been trapped in Spider HQ without Hobie and Spiderbyte's help. Even with said help, he only escapes Miguel because Miguel underestimates him the entire time and is convinced Miles is running around mindlessly without a clue. Then he fricks up, is sent to the wrong universe, and again winds up trapped. I didn't even mention all the times he fricked up with his family. No he's not a Gary Stu.