Sauron never wanted to destroy Arda. He wanted to create a land of perfect order. Tolkien even states in his writings that his initial intentions were noble, but his obsession with order + Melkor's influence poisoned him.
But the battle of Shire was more fitting for Tolkiens own experience of coming back from the Great War and finding that England too had been changed by the war forever.
For him, there was no Shire to come back to. Jackson was a hack fraud.
Not exactly the same, but frodo's ending represents exactly this, he comes back but he can't live the same life again due to the pain he's experienced and the things he has seen. It's a lot more stubble than just destroying the shire
Yeah but that's fricking moronic because that's the whole overarching theme of waning greatness. The Shire bullshit is just Tolkien's autism about his hometown getting bulldozed and nothing else, it has no reason to be included in an already bloated adaption when it's just disruptive to the pacing and adds nothing substantial.
That really is the gayest thing though. people who like the battle at the shire REALLY are just being contrarian. If the movies never came out, there would be an unanimous consensus that it's shit.
>If the movies never came out, there would be an unanimous consensus that it's shit.
Nobody complained about the scouring of the shire before the movies came out
He also stated that he didn't include religion and that he hates allegory, but later said that it turned out his books were "very catholic works"
Who you are comes through in your works of art, it's impossible to not insert your world view unless you're a smoothebrain who has no world view
>Tolkien was attached to the Lancashire Fusiliers who fought in the Battle of the Somme from September 1916. Tolkien's battalion stayed in reserve for the first week. It went into action at Ovillers, Tolkien's company again staying in reserve to carry supplies. Tolkien became battalion signals officer and often worked close to the front line. The battalion helped to win the Battle of Thiepval Ridge in late September, and took part in the capture of Regina Trench in late October. On 25 October, he went down with trench fever, and was sent home a fortnight later.
And you?
But the battle of Shire was more fitting for Tolkiens own experience of coming back from the Great War and finding that England too had been changed by the war forever.
For him, there was no Shire to come back to. Jackson was a hack fraud.
>muh author's experience being le allegory for war bad
yawn
Plus the fact that none of the other Hobbits seems particularly aware or grateful of what they've done kind of hits hard. That one guy with the big pumpkin being the biggest chad in the bar that night while they all share a quiet drink together is really potent. Sticks with me in a way that another bloated set-piece would not.
Even though I am sure Tolkien would disapprove of the many changes the movie made, I'd like to think he'd appreciate this. These four young men who went off to war and came back having lived through things that their families and neighbors will never understand, and the only other people who get it are the ones who were there. That's what it was like for men coming home from World War 1, and Tolkien, being a veteran of the great war himself, would have lived that experience too. That single moment captured this phenomena so perfectly, and it's a point that can only come across and truly feel earned when you've been through an entire trilogy of this great tale, seeing all their triumphs, tragedies, and wounds along the way.
>Hobbits sitting around the table, trying to live like they used to, only to find that's simply not possible anymore >A wave of sadness comes over them >Until Sam says frick it and asks Rosie out >And all of a sudden, there's new good times to experience
That's the good shit.
But the battle of Shire was more fitting for Tolkiens own experience of coming back from the Great War and finding that England too had been changed by the war forever.
For him, there was no Shire to come back to. Jackson was a hack fraud.
GRRM is the biggest Tolkien autist and loves the Scouring of the Shire, that's why the White Walkers were a wet fart in GoT and the real enemy is MAN (yes man)
>Hobbits sitting around the table, trying to live like they used to, only to find that's simply not possible anymore >A wave of sadness comes over them >Until Sam says frick it and asks Rosie out >And all of a sudden, there's new good times to experience
That's the good shit.
This scene is so amazing. Just thinking about it makes me nostalgic.
Movie was superior to the book, just like everything about LOTR.
Anyone who tries to defend Tom Bombadil should blow their brains out with a shotgun because they clearly weren't using them anyway.
Frick you.
Tom Bombadil fits great into the style of old Germanic/Anglo-Saxon folkore that Tolkien was going for.
He's like a forest spirit/fairy folk like the Buschmutter. Mysterious, sometimes helpful, sometimes not, always does its own thing.
And it fits their adventure through a dark forest, a place of full of wonder and danger.
Putting him in LOTR is moronic and shows why Tolkien was just an early worldbuilding nerd more than a storyteller. Immediately taking the stakes out of the plot by having a being who can just frick around with the ring is completely jarring.
The watcher in the water, the ents, the eagles, and shelob all managed to be nature beings doing their own thing without making the whole premise of the plot seem stupid.
Sauron is supposed to be a divine commander of darkness why is some random singing homosexual in the woods stronger than his magic?
>Immediately taking the stakes out of the plot by having a being who can just frick around with the ring is completely jarring.
The book spells it out for you why Bombadil wouldn't be helpful.
Yeah because he's unreliable and doesn't care about other people's problems. Still doesn't explain why a random forest dweller is stronger than a divine being of darkness.
It would be like if in the Odyssey Odysseus found somebody who was strong enough to stop all the gods fricking with him but it was just some Black person living in a pond or something. It's completely absurd for the stakes.
Sauron isn't all-powerful. He's the same type of being as Gandalf.
The Elves kicked his ass before.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I know, but he should still be stronger than a random guy in the forest. Even the Silmarillion doesn't make any sense of what the frick Tom Bombadil is. He's just a plot hole put in because Tolkien forgot he wasn't writing a whimsical kids book.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>a random guy in the forest
You have never read the books
11 months ago
Anonymous
He's not some random guy. He's most likely a lesser Ainur which means he's on the same power level as Sauron.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Tolkien explicitly states he's not, and that his nature would remain a mystery.
Wouldn't be the first time. Creatures from the Void originate from neither Eru nor Melkor, and in the case of Ungoliant she was more powerful than the latter.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Tolkien forgot he wasn't writing a whimsical kids book
um...
The Scouring of the Shire is very important, but I just can't see how you could put it into the movie. RotK was already insanely long, to add another 30 minute arc after the big bad is dead is very strange for a film.
Yea, it would have never worked for the theatrical version, but would have been neat to make say a 20 minute version for the extended edition. It wouldn't need a ton of special effects or even a full scale scouring, just the hobbits showing up, seeing that things are wrong, that Saruman is a shriveled old man controlling the shire and making them work as slaves, so they gather the hobbits and lead them to overthrow him then wormtongue kills him. Would be fun for lotr fans who already wanted more
They didn't even put all the stuff they did shoot in the extended editions, like Gil-galad. Why would they make something just for the extended editions?
It would only work if it was a tv show instead of movies
It is important because it shows how they've changed into leaders and more importantly that little evils still live on in the world even though sauron is gone, but it was the right decision to cut it out of the movies since it would mess with the pacing way too much >climax happens >still 2 hours left in the movie
Yeah, no
Lol
I don't watch any porn because I'm not some pathetic white cuck jerking it to blacked when his wife isn't being plowed by Tyrone during Lord of the Rings
Imagine coming back from a soul destroying ordeal only to find your home has been enslaved and you have to fight some more, they would genuinely just breakdown there on the spot, the four of them would probably commit a synchonized suicide
>you have to fight some more
So what? They've been fighting for years, survived shit no other hobbit even knew existed, had friends, experience, etc. Would they be struck by it? Probably. Would they break? Hell fricking naw.
>years
The story takes place over just a few months. The only years are the 17 year time skip from when frodo gets the ring from bilbo to when he leaves the shire.
>Sam Gamgee also fought in the battle. Frodo was also present at the battle, though he did not fight: he spent the battle making sure that no Ruffians who threw down their weapons were killed as well as making sure that none of the hobbits who had joined the Ruffians were killed stating that no hobbit had killed another hobbit and that it was not going to start there.
Ekhem
All imperfections in Tolkien's work can be explained by conventions he was trying to evoke particularly the heroic poem that doesn't always follow modern storytelling rules, the characters aren't always three-dimensional and events don't always end in a climactic and satisfactory way.
Smeagol was never stated to be a hobbit, only something similar to one.
Remember that hobbits are technically Men, and there are multiple subraces of Man in canon - Drudain, Numenoreans, Beorlings, Hobbits... So Smeagol was probably a member of some other short Man race.
Based movie ending. I'm glad they understood that movie is a different medium. Also it works better with what followed. Shire is saved and it's the same old Shire but not for Frodo.
The elves coming to Helms Deep was kino
Aragorn getting Anduril halfway through ROTK was kino
Frodo and Sam going to Osgiliath was kino
The ghosts coming to Pelennor Fields was kino
The elves were cool but I disagree that how it happened here was better than the book. The movie makes Theoden seem moronic in Two Towers. I agree with the rest of your points being better though. Aragorn especially has more character development.
>Aragorn getting Anduril halfway through ROTK
I liked this change too, the movies then become Aragorn's personal journey to be worthy of his lineage. In the books he just shows up everywhere with the sword announcing he's the heir of Isildur
>in the movie Gandalf and Saruman have a sick 1v1 in Orthanc, Gandalf loses and gets imprisoned >in the books Saruman says "you're not leaving this place" and Gandalf says "ok" and then he just stays in the tower like a cuck
The movie did some things better, I admit.
>another thread pic stolen straight from reddit
Cinemaphile is dead
how do you know this is from reddit?
it's his oc
i browse reddit 6 hours a day
You need to find yourself a girl, mate.
>The evil wizard SHARKEY
>No it doesn't mean Shark! It's an orcish word
>Somehow... Saruman has returned
Tolkien truly was a hack
... Saruman has returned
He didn't die in the books, he was just stuck on his tower.
>he didn't die in the books
Did you stop reading ROTK after the Ring is destroyed? There's 200 more pages left after that
Not that anon, but you missed his point.
Saruman's escape from his imprisonment in Orthanc is foreshadowed in the book on the journey back to the Shire.
>Sauron wants to destroy the world
>why does he want that? Because he's... le bad
All you really need to know.
Sauron never wanted to destroy Arda. He wanted to create a land of perfect order. Tolkien even states in his writings that his initial intentions were noble, but his obsession with order + Melkor's influence poisoned him.
I prefer the film ending. That moment where they all drink at the inn as changed men hit harder than Saruman's last stand.
But the battle of Shire was more fitting for Tolkiens own experience of coming back from the Great War and finding that England too had been changed by the war forever.
For him, there was no Shire to come back to. Jackson was a hack fraud.
Not exactly the same, but frodo's ending represents exactly this, he comes back but he can't live the same life again due to the pain he's experienced and the things he has seen. It's a lot more stubble than just destroying the shire
Yeah but that's fricking moronic because that's the whole overarching theme of waning greatness. The Shire bullshit is just Tolkien's autism about his hometown getting bulldozed and nothing else, it has no reason to be included in an already bloated adaption when it's just disruptive to the pacing and adds nothing substantial.
That really is the gayest thing though. people who like the battle at the shire REALLY are just being contrarian. If the movies never came out, there would be an unanimous consensus that it's shit.
>If the movies never came out, there would be an unanimous consensus that it's shit.
Nobody complained about the scouring of the shire before the movies came out
Don't disprove my theory, yo.
Tolkien stated specifically that the war had no impact on his books
war makes or breaks a man
Bullshit
He also stated that he didn't include religion and that he hates allegory, but later said that it turned out his books were "very catholic works"
Who you are comes through in your works of art, it's impossible to not insert your world view unless you're a smoothebrain who has no world view
>muh war is...LE BAD
>muh war...CHANGES STUFF
Tolkien was a cringe soiboi incel who couldn't handle a little shootin' and tootin'
>Tolkien was attached to the Lancashire Fusiliers who fought in the Battle of the Somme from September 1916. Tolkien's battalion stayed in reserve for the first week. It went into action at Ovillers, Tolkien's company again staying in reserve to carry supplies. Tolkien became battalion signals officer and often worked close to the front line. The battalion helped to win the Battle of Thiepval Ridge in late September, and took part in the capture of Regina Trench in late October. On 25 October, he went down with trench fever, and was sent home a fortnight later.
And you?
Kek
>Stayed in the back, got sick and sent home
Tom bombadil was gettting revenge for not getting cast
>uhhh war is... LE BAD?
Why is Jackson version so objectively superior to Tolkien's, bros?
Because Tolkien was a Catholic pedophile
Based
>muh author's experience being le allegory for war bad
yawn
Completely agreed.
Plus the fact that none of the other Hobbits seems particularly aware or grateful of what they've done kind of hits hard. That one guy with the big pumpkin being the biggest chad in the bar that night while they all share a quiet drink together is really potent. Sticks with me in a way that another bloated set-piece would not.
Even though I am sure Tolkien would disapprove of the many changes the movie made, I'd like to think he'd appreciate this. These four young men who went off to war and came back having lived through things that their families and neighbors will never understand, and the only other people who get it are the ones who were there. That's what it was like for men coming home from World War 1, and Tolkien, being a veteran of the great war himself, would have lived that experience too. That single moment captured this phenomena so perfectly, and it's a point that can only come across and truly feel earned when you've been through an entire trilogy of this great tale, seeing all their triumphs, tragedies, and wounds along the way.
Happens in the book too.
Their first stop before entering the Shire is in the Prancing Pony, and it's there where they figure out something's wrong
>Hobbits sitting around the table, trying to live like they used to, only to find that's simply not possible anymore
>A wave of sadness comes over them
>Until Sam says frick it and asks Rosie out
>And all of a sudden, there's new good times to experience
That's the good shit.
GRRM is the biggest Tolkien autist and loves the Scouring of the Shire, that's why the White Walkers were a wet fart in GoT and the real enemy is MAN (yes man)
This scene is so amazing. Just thinking about it makes me nostalgic.
Same. It's also an excellent set up for Frodo choosing to leave with Gandalf.
Movie was superior to the book, just like everything about LOTR.
Anyone who tries to defend Tom Bombadil should blow their brains out with a shotgun because they clearly weren't using them anyway.
shouldnt u be surfing down some stairs right now
Frick you.
Tom Bombadil fits great into the style of old Germanic/Anglo-Saxon folkore that Tolkien was going for.
He's like a forest spirit/fairy folk like the Buschmutter. Mysterious, sometimes helpful, sometimes not, always does its own thing.
And it fits their adventure through a dark forest, a place of full of wonder and danger.
Tom bombadil fits the story if it was just the hobbit 2.0, but Tolkien went far grander and accidentally diminished bombadils role in the books
Putting him in LOTR is moronic and shows why Tolkien was just an early worldbuilding nerd more than a storyteller. Immediately taking the stakes out of the plot by having a being who can just frick around with the ring is completely jarring.
The watcher in the water, the ents, the eagles, and shelob all managed to be nature beings doing their own thing without making the whole premise of the plot seem stupid.
Sauron is supposed to be a divine commander of darkness why is some random singing homosexual in the woods stronger than his magic?
>Immediately taking the stakes out of the plot by having a being who can just frick around with the ring is completely jarring.
The book spells it out for you why Bombadil wouldn't be helpful.
Yeah because he's unreliable and doesn't care about other people's problems. Still doesn't explain why a random forest dweller is stronger than a divine being of darkness.
It would be like if in the Odyssey Odysseus found somebody who was strong enough to stop all the gods fricking with him but it was just some Black person living in a pond or something. It's completely absurd for the stakes.
Sauron isn't all-powerful. He's the same type of being as Gandalf.
The Elves kicked his ass before.
I know, but he should still be stronger than a random guy in the forest. Even the Silmarillion doesn't make any sense of what the frick Tom Bombadil is. He's just a plot hole put in because Tolkien forgot he wasn't writing a whimsical kids book.
>a random guy in the forest
You have never read the books
He's not some random guy. He's most likely a lesser Ainur which means he's on the same power level as Sauron.
Tolkien explicitly states he's not, and that his nature would remain a mystery.
Wouldn't be the first time. Creatures from the Void originate from neither Eru nor Melkor, and in the case of Ungoliant she was more powerful than the latter.
>Tolkien forgot he wasn't writing a whimsical kids book
um...
Bombadil does not fit into the story that is LotR. He fits fine into the Hobbit and the larger world, but not LotR.
I guess Tolkien is a hack for writing in Lothlorien too then? Having a reprieve from danger makes sense in the narrative.
NOOOOOO LE SCOURING OF LE SHIRE WAS A PART OF LE HERO’S JOURNEY
i've been meaning to watch lord of the rings for a few years now. i made it past the logos, paused it, and have been stalling since probably 2018.
Stop damaging your brain with quick entertainment like youtube and tiktok and giving yourself ADHD
but i watch other movies and dont have tiktok or instagram or twitter
Just stop being a pussy, sit down and watch the lotr; the extended versions.
The Scouring of the Shire is very important, but I just can't see how you could put it into the movie. RotK was already insanely long, to add another 30 minute arc after the big bad is dead is very strange for a film.
Yea, it would have never worked for the theatrical version, but would have been neat to make say a 20 minute version for the extended edition. It wouldn't need a ton of special effects or even a full scale scouring, just the hobbits showing up, seeing that things are wrong, that Saruman is a shriveled old man controlling the shire and making them work as slaves, so they gather the hobbits and lead them to overthrow him then wormtongue kills him. Would be fun for lotr fans who already wanted more
They didn't even put all the stuff they did shoot in the extended editions, like Gil-galad. Why would they make something just for the extended editions?
It would only work if it was a tv show instead of movies
It is important because it shows how they've changed into leaders and more importantly that little evils still live on in the world even though sauron is gone, but it was the right decision to cut it out of the movies since it would mess with the pacing way too much
>climax happens
>still 2 hours left in the movie
Yeah, no
Lol
Both are gay cuck shit for white men to consoom while Black folk frick their white wives
Bro, I mean this with the utmost love, stop watching porn immediately. You are this close to trooning out yourself
I don't watch any porn because I'm not some pathetic white cuck jerking it to blacked when his wife isn't being plowed by Tyrone during Lord of the Rings
Apparently you're jerking it while watching the white guy watch porn
Then why do you have such intense fetishes?
he's obviously an ameritard
How can disgusting gnomes like those hobbits be the main protagonists in anything???
I hate LOTR because of this shit
>t.sauron
Imagine coming back from a soul destroying ordeal only to find your home has been enslaved and you have to fight some more, they would genuinely just breakdown there on the spot, the four of them would probably commit a synchonized suicide
>you have to fight some more
So what? They've been fighting for years, survived shit no other hobbit even knew existed, had friends, experience, etc. Would they be struck by it? Probably. Would they break? Hell fricking naw.
>years
The story takes place over just a few months. The only years are the 17 year time skip from when frodo gets the ring from bilbo to when he leaves the shire.
>inmediately organize a guerrilla army
>easily defeat the invaders
based
half or more of the hobbits should have been black
pete jackson should be in jail
>Sam Gamgee also fought in the battle. Frodo was also present at the battle, though he did not fight: he spent the battle making sure that no Ruffians who threw down their weapons were killed as well as making sure that none of the hobbits who had joined the Ruffians were killed stating that no hobbit had killed another hobbit and that it was not going to start there.
KEK, what a fricking hack
Ekhem
All imperfections in Tolkien's work can be explained by conventions he was trying to evoke particularly the heroic poem that doesn't always follow modern storytelling rules, the characters aren't always three-dimensional and events don't always end in a climactic and satisfactory way.
>stating that no hobbit had killed another hobbit
gollumbros... we're forgotten...
Smeagol was never stated to be a hobbit, only something similar to one.
Remember that hobbits are technically Men, and there are multiple subraces of Man in canon - Drudain, Numenoreans, Beorlings, Hobbits... So Smeagol was probably a member of some other short Man race.
Based movie ending. I'm glad they understood that movie is a different medium. Also it works better with what followed. Shire is saved and it's the same old Shire but not for Frodo.
The elves coming to Helms Deep was kino
Aragorn getting Anduril halfway through ROTK was kino
Frodo and Sam going to Osgiliath was kino
The ghosts coming to Pelennor Fields was kino
Jackson > Tolkien
none of this was kino
elves coming to help humans fight undermines the point of the story
The elves were cool but I disagree that how it happened here was better than the book. The movie makes Theoden seem moronic in Two Towers. I agree with the rest of your points being better though. Aragorn especially has more character development.
>Aragorn getting Anduril halfway through ROTK
I liked this change too, the movies then become Aragorn's personal journey to be worthy of his lineage. In the books he just shows up everywhere with the sword announcing he's the heir of Isildur
What about Frodo being a little b***h that's unable to wipe his own ass without help, was that also kino?
>in the movie Gandalf and Saruman have a sick 1v1 in Orthanc, Gandalf loses and gets imprisoned
>in the books Saruman says "you're not leaving this place" and Gandalf says "ok" and then he just stays in the tower like a cuck
The movie did some things better, I admit.
How come all Lord of the Rings fans are huge BLACKED.com fans?
Is Saurman cut down all the trees, what do they do for firewood? Not only to heat the castle and the orc hovels but the furnace for the armor?