It seems that, even before Velma, Scooby Doo has hit something of a rut. Even back then they were trying new things to twist up the formula like having the monsters actually be real or having crossover episodes with shit like KISS or DC. It's been more than fifty years since SB started, trying new things doesn't work, going back to basics isn't bringing the younger audience in, is there any way to revitalize the franchise?
Mystery inc killed the franchise
fpbp
Finally someone admits it. Frick Mystery Inc.
How?
It made Velma into a real annoying b***h and somehow managed to retroactively make her a lesbian in future incarnations.
Plus it was just a worse version of Gravity Falls. It took itself way too seriously.
>worse version of Gravity Falls
Mousegays are pathetic
See
Deconstruction gays are worse than mouse gays will ever be.
it literally poisons the well everytime it's introduced. marvelman can never be anything beyond the benevolent god wank fantasy moore disfigured him into. then you get characters like batman, superman, and swamp thing that find themselves schizophrenically ping-ponging back and forth between camp and edge.
Marvelman was literally just a Captain Marvel rip off before Moore wrote for him.
It's funny you should say that cuz my reaction to Gravity Falls back in the day was it was a worse version of Mystery Inc. that didn't take itself seriously enough.
Which is moronic in its own right given how desperate she was for Shaggy's wiener during that show. This whole "gay" was a thing years after the series was already over because some homosexuals who did negligible work for it wanted dopamine on Twitter, and then that homosexual Gunn jumped on the bandwagon
She also crushed on one of their high school teachers in the Cicada episode.
That's not true, anon. Most of the animated movies are actually very decent. The only outright bad ones are the ones that try to retcon the supernatural movies.
The only thing I really remember them retconning is that moronic attempt to bend themselves into pretzels trying to pretend they were jobless teenagers the entire time in Zombie Island(even though they were literally there for Daphne's job).
I don't remember them trying to retcon anything supernatural and in fact reinforce some of it because the ending revealed one of the cat monsters chasing them was real and related to the three from the original movie. Am I misremembering or is this just Cinemaphile not watching the movie? Which would be completely understandable honestly, it was shit.
>make her a lesbian in future incarnations.
No Velma was straight in Scooby Doo and The Legend of The Phantosuar
It's funny too because he was literally just Velma but male.
You also can't convince me she didn't wanna bang the "Not Stephen King" guy from witch's ghost
there were plenty of authors she was crushing on in whats new scooby doo
She made a Freudian slip about being crazy for a good detective to Bo in ZI.
>somehow managed to retroactively make her a lesbian in future incarnations.
She's bisexual in Velma though
Never seen Velma, but I'd be surprised. Bisexuals are considered the same tier as Black folk by the rest of the pride crowd. I had an former boss basically get excommunicated by her LGBT friends because she "came out" as bisexual.
im elated to see others finally saying this
by deconstructing scooby doo. deconstruction is a poisonous double edged sword which often times is impossible to come back from. look to DC if you needed any further evidence.
>im elated to see others finally saying this
Sad
>as if I care
we're already on Cinemaphile anon. this is as rock bottom as it gets before you're homeless or drug addicted.
No having a twitter account would be rock bottom
Zombie Island and its early sequels already deconstructed Scooby Doo and its formula in such a way that its hard to go back to just plain "Every monster is some old frick in a mask pulling a real estate scam" to the point that executive mandates to return to the old ways and debunk past true supernatural incidents are always rejected by the base.
What's New went back to monster-of-the-week costume mysteries after Zombie Island and it was completely successful and very popular. I would argue that the existence of the occasional Zombie Island or Witch's Ghost is almost necessary for the setting so that the characters have a reason to actually be scared of the random monsters they encounter if they could possibly be real.
Regardless, people don't hate costume mystery Scooby Doo, they hate the retcons that don't make any sense and shit on the original movie.
yeah What's New could sometimes come off as a bit safe but it was overall solid and could get creative occasionally(like the time the splitting up results in Fred and Shaggy getting paired together and it's just incredibly awkward, or the episode where the monster is unmasked and unlike every other episode it turns out to be somebody the gang never encountered and thus could never have guessed them to be a suspect and this causes Velma to get really upset)
How do you even retcon scooby doo? most of the stories aren't connected anyways. It's all it's own contained universe basically.
That's how it has been treated for most of its existence. There were 2 recent movies that tried to retcon Zombie Island and 13 Ghosts because one of the producers thinks the core moral of the franchise is that everything has a logical explanation to it. This is the same franchise with a talking dog, mind you. So he thought he was doing the franchise a service by retconning the real monsters out.
...no one liked it.
And the ultimate irony is that this producer helped co-write the ScoobyNatural crossover special.
It's some of the most bizarre things I've ever seen like you can't retcon them because theres no ongoing series for them. The stories they told are separate and done you can't retcon them because it's finished. At that point it's a glorified remake not a retcon. I've honestly never seen this done anywhere else. It's like retconing the first issue of a non canon spin off comic thats already finished, and won't be continued. It literally does nothing so whats the point?
>is there any way to revitalize the franchise?
No, it hit the point it had become referential, that's when you know something's become too set in its ways to legitimately change in any meaningful way.
Warner Bros needs to go all in and give us a coomer-bait Velma show.
Why do they always make Velma the lesbian and not Daphne?
So that the fat dykes can self-insert as the totally-not-cute-yet-still-cute dorky/nerdy girl. None of these women self-insert or able to relate with the Queen Bee.
Because LGBT runs on stereotypes. Although if Scooby Doo was a new franchise, people would be claiming Velma as trans.
because Daphne is an actual stacy?
Daphne represents everything tumblr landwhales hate
Because Velma is more popular and thus, is exposed to more bullshittery.
Because ugly used to mean lesbian but people didn't realize it was a joke so anyone who got repeatedly labelled gay in the past to insult them must now actually be gay.
Because everyone ships Daphne with Fred. Shaggy is foodsexual so that leaves Velma out.
Daphne and Fred's relationship is a staple of the franchise that has been present to varying degrees in all incarnations from the very beginning. It would be ultra weird if they removed that. It'd be like taking away Shaggy and Scooby's appetites.
>twist up the formula like having the monsters
Shit's been done since zombie island it isn't anything new
>Even back then
Read homie read.
You don't. You put them in the fricking vault and revive one of the 3 dozen Scooby-Dupes that HB made if you want to do something wild and new.
Where's my CW teen drama based version of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid?
Where's my dead serious true-crime version of Clue Club?
Where's my fun Halloween Horrorworld version of Fangface?
Where's my thoughtful paranormal fantasy Goober and the Ghost Chasers?
Shit; where's my historically educational Funky Phantom?
I would genuinely take one of the tumblr-redraw version of the Gang and just give them new names. a different animal, and a better premise than seeing the Scooby Gang get trotted out as if its the only thing Hanna Barbera can make shows for.
Cute Velma.
Looks like something MahmaPuu would draw.
are gingers their own race now?
Isn't there an edit of this where they are all white and look 100 times better?
This. Just retire the thing with some dignity and give it room to breath for a while. Pull it back out in a decade if you've got to.
>You don't. You put them in the fricking vault and revive one of the 3 dozen Scooby-Dupes that HB made if you want to do something wild and new.
I don't agree with retiring them, but the Scooby clones could use a revamp.
Imagine Amazing Chan and the Chan Clan rebooted.
YESSSS YESSSS FINALLY SOMEONE OTHER THAN ME SAYS THIS.
GIVE ME MY GRITTY FANGFACE REBOOT REEEE
>twist up the formula like having the monsters actually be real or having crossover episodes with shit like KISS or DC.
The irony is that these twists had all been done, before.
Sex with Space Kook Daphne.
I want 2000s shit to die but until that happens, you'll be getting more Scooby and Batman to spite you.
I don't know what the frick you're talking about OP.
The last "Back to Basics" Scooby Doo that was given a fair shake was What's New a full 20 years ago. Since then there's been
-Mystery Incorporated, an attempt at making some kinda buffyverse with Scoob.
-Get a Clue was .... a superhero show when you boil it down.
-Be Cool, which was an attempt at a return to form but that was shuffled between stations and platforms and ultimately to VOD where of fricking course it died.
-Guess Who was a crossover vehicle. Which, despite your dismay, is a long established as part of the Scooby Doo brand identity.
Scooby Doo brand would be healthier if there were greater saturation to generate appeal with reruns but I doubt Cartoon Network will do that nowadays.
I fricking loved Get a Clue as a kid since it was just my two favorite characters on their own. I remember how Where Are You and Scooby-Doo Show was getting a shitton of reruns around that time too.
Thank you!
Everyone is always crying that the Scooby-Doo formula doesn't work anymore, but they never acknowledge that the last time WB attempted to do the actual formula was 20 years ago! By the way it wasn't that great of an attempt either.
How about we stop trying to reinvent the wheel and just do the formula as is. Which is to say a plot focused show (where the character is in service of the plot and action), featuring cool monsters, and compelling, well drawn, settings to establish a Erie yet comfy mood. Or just do like the other anon said and have some reruns.
>they never acknowledge that the last time WB attempted to do the actual formula was 20 years ago!
>the films don't count just because
The majority of the animated movies have been sticking to the formula. Those have been released at least once a year since 2010 so it's not the dry spell you're making it out to be.
You're never gonna see it again because Daphne blew her brains out, silly.
Cute
Wow it's literally my oneitis
bump
dude it's only been 10 minutes you didn't meed to bump
>Cinemaphile now hates Mystery Inc
Full circle
Cinemaphile hates anything they liked in the past.
Best reply.
I never liked it.
It's literally only because it laid the groundwork for gay Velma. I hate it when "fans" retroactively hate something because of something that pops up after the show itself ends.
I've always hated it. Cinemaphile is just waking up to reality.
The thing you have to realize is that Scooby-Doo ever being good in the first place is more of a fluke than anything else. 90% of it is garbage. For every Zombie Island you have 10 Return to Zombie Islands.
>The thing you have to realize is that Scooby-Doo ever being good in the first place is more of a fluke than anything else. 90% of it is garbage. For every Zombie Island you have 10 Return to Zombie Islands.
How is that any different than Batman?
Honestly I know it's a hot take, but I've never been a fan of any iteration of Scooby Doo.
What if Daphne but Scottish tomboy?
>even before Velma
anon return to zombie island was "before velma"
I would like something along the lines of the Mystery Incorporated series, but taking place all over the world, instead of just 1 location. So basically the season 3 that we never got.
Also, make each mystery a 2-parter, like the old Justice League cartoon. That would give the writers room to actually develop a good mystery while also leaving room for character moments and hijinkies. An engaging mystery with a compelling cast does wonders to attract viewers and the 44-minute runtime will ensure you do not need to sacrifice one for the other.
Everyone always complains about serialization in cartoons now but a mystery focused franchise like SD is perfect for this. The build up in MI was great.
Of course you're going to hit a creative rut when you're putting out like 3 DTV movies a year while also having a TV show running more often than not, all of the same IP.
The studio was at its best when they were putting out Mike Tyson Mysteries.
Anyway, this is why I eventually learned to just (re)watch things casually.
Best approach. Headcanon away bits you're not keen on, done. Easy.
I think the direct to dvd movies are better than the show episodes since the longer run time gives them more time to develop the one off characters we'll never see again. Theres more showing and less quick exposition dumping.
>going back to basics isn't bringing the younger audience in, is there any way to revitalize the franchise?
Anime adaptation
It's inevitable