They're not bad by nature, the problem is when that sympathetic side is introduced to retroactively take away from the consequences of their actions and therefore their agency and overall villainry. I stand by the idea that Tai Lung is one of the better examples of this.
It's never supposed to "excuse" anything. It's there to show nuance and give depth to a villain, show that they're not some mindless force of evil who only exists to be evil 24/7, but has a life and worldview of their own, just like real life. This is what helps make works of fiction more in-depth and less like propaganda.
If Cinemaphile had their way every villain ever would be a mustache-twirling cackling psychopath who is needlessly cruel, cowardly when cornered, and generally lacks any semblance of virtue or humanity. A perfect propaganda villain.
Anon, what you are describing is a good example of sympathetic villain. What we get, are not good example of sympathetic villains but villains with tragic backstories that try to excuse them.
They're not bad by nature, the problem is when that sympathetic side is introduced to retroactively take away from the consequences of their actions and therefore their agency and overall villainry. I stand by the idea that Tai Lung is one of the better examples of this.
Gorr in Thor Love And Thunder was right about some things. I.e., he was never proven wrong about the gods, if anything the narrative proves him right by showing most gods as spoiled buttholes. It didn't make the movie much better, if anything it looked self-indulgent.
A more interesting villain is the ideological opponent villain who's not really evil, his goals just run in opposition to the protagonists and he realky doesn't feel like compromising.
>I have.....a WIFE!!!
>this is somehow supposed to excuse the thousand body count and ruined lives
It's never supposed to "excuse" anything. It's there to show nuance and give depth to a villain, show that they're not some mindless force of evil who only exists to be evil 24/7, but has a life and worldview of their own, just like real life. This is what helps make works of fiction more in-depth and less like propaganda.
If Cinemaphile had their way every villain ever would be a mustache-twirling cackling psychopath who is needlessly cruel, cowardly when cornered, and generally lacks any semblance of virtue or humanity. A perfect propaganda villain.
Anon, what you are describing is a good example of sympathetic villain. What we get, are not good example of sympathetic villains but villains with tragic backstories that try to excuse them.
Like who?
Would Dracula from Netflixvania count? Or Stolas from Helluva Boss
Pretty sure they both get punished, so what's the excusing part?
>propaganda
woah buddy no need to make the thread political
>I have… a WIFE!!!
>gets raped anyway
Kwab
They're not bad by nature, the problem is when that sympathetic side is introduced to retroactively take away from the consequences of their actions and therefore their agency and overall villainry. I stand by the idea that Tai Lung is one of the better examples of this.
..but he's cute! CUTE!
>I may be an evil piece of shit whos murdered and tortured and ruined thousands of lives
>but... at least Im not RUDE
they need to stop making villains who are "sympathetic" and start making villains who are right.
Gorr in Thor Love And Thunder was right about some things. I.e., he was never proven wrong about the gods, if anything the narrative proves him right by showing most gods as spoiled buttholes. It didn't make the movie much better, if anything it looked self-indulgent.
All of these usually have a little bit of shit-tier in them.
What happens if their motivation is basically all of the above?
Well then they have achieved pure kino status.
>villain has a tragic past
>hero still beats the shit of him
any examples?
this guy
A more interesting villain is the ideological opponent villain who's not really evil, his goals just run in opposition to the protagonists and he realky doesn't feel like compromising.
What if we made him sympathetic but then we took the sympathy away?
I wonder if a certain tripgay that was relevant over a decade ago gets a rush of serotonin whenever he sees this image.