They could easily supplement the show with real historical events like how Tokugawa(Toranaga) unified Japan.
moron
Huh, a show about a white guy, in Japan? And there's no black samurai running around?? Why was this allowed to be ma- >first episode a jap pisses on the head of the white main character >never gets revenge >most of the time he is a bumbling awkward buffoon >events mostly happen around him without much input and he's not really the main character, 'Japan' is
Lame.
We didn't even get to see a big CGI battle with a blue beam in the sky or Round 2 between Hulk and Thanos.
I still enjoyed parts of the show. Compared to most media these days, it was interesting and well made. But it is undeniable that the main character was humiliated and made to look moronic. Probably so that the show could get made at all.
>series/book ends with main character telling other character “this is what is going to happen, but we couldn’t be bothered to film/write it, so this is the ending lol”
Woah…
If you think this is blue balls, wait till you read the book. Some anon needs to share a picture of the last page. Literally one of the worst pieces of writing in history, just because of that abrupt ending (after 600 pages of buildup)
more like only the first episode was good. they show a dude getting boiled alive, kino cinematography, and dudes voluntaring their kids for seppeku.
then mariko is introduced and she constantly rambles on about bullshit, betrayal, and "your true face" i lost interest by the fourth episode. genuinely was disappointed, becuase i thought we were getting a games of thrones esque show.
Huh, a show about a white guy, in Japan? And there's no black samurai running around?? Why was this allowed to be ma- >first episode a jap pisses on the head of the white main character >never gets revenge >most of the time he is a bumbling awkward buffoon >events mostly happen around him without much input and he's not really the main character, 'Japan' is
Lame.
>never gets revenge >literally cucks him >embarrasses him in front of his guards >rises higher in the ranks of importance than Omi
Why don't you seethe about him never getting revenge on Omi for making him say "I am a dog"
It's not revenge if you don't realize you're doing it, and the guy getting revenged-on doesn't even mind that much because the guy is dating a prostitute. >for making him say "I am a dog"
All the humiliation is bad, and only done so the show can be made. They have to meet a white humiliation quota or shlomo won't sign off on it. >seethe
It's just the truth, man.
All that happened in the book
Do you expect a xenophobic culture like Japan to treat foreigners well? If they did then you'd be b***hing about that
Obviously a white man is going to be humiliation ritual'd in Japan, it's not his country. If it was a nig getting free wives, titles, swords, fancy clothes, and prostitutes I bet you'd be raging
>All that happened in the book
You're saying that in the book, he got his head pissed on? And constantly ridiculed with no response? Could be so, didn't read it. Could you find the passages and post them? >bitching
If you have to frame all disagreement as "other side is mad, that means i'm right" then you just look like an idiot with no argument. Stop doing it if you want to be taken seriously. >Obviously a white man is going to be humiliation ritual'd in Japan
No. That's just a thing you like to think about. Historically Japan treated foreigners well, especially useful ones. The real historical figure the character is based on was very highly regarded. >If something that is impossible happened you would think that is not good, and that must mean you are angry
Lol.
I'm aware William Adams was far better treated than John Blackthorne but he was the exception, not the rule
They executed their own for impropriety, why would they treat an alien better? They didn't know he was useful at the time
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>why would they treat an alien better?
Probably because the alien could destroy their country? As far as i've read, which admittedly isn't that much, both sides were quite civil most of the time. Especially in comparison to other encounters the white man had as he travelled around the world.
Anyway that's really beside the point. The Anjin character is humiliated and made to look moronic, because you cannot make competent straight white male characters now. ESPECIALLY if they're going to be involved with a different race/culture and possibly show superiority by any metric at all.
This is how it is with israelite controlled media.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
The moronic white man saves the main charactere's life like three times.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
The white man is the main character. But yes, he saves an important character's life, then goes back to being a buffoon instantly. It was required to show some reason he's kept around, or even normies would be like "wtf is Toranaga keeping him there for?" Anjin needed to be a cool guy, not an autistic moron doing a Tom Hardy impression. I'd say the same if the show had an entirely Japanese cast. The main character has to be cool, but they wouldn't allow it.
>The Anjin character is humiliated and made to look moronic
That's weird, he's literally the last person Toranaga looks at before the credits roll and he's also the one who proved worthy of Toranaga sparing his life and actually stopping a sepukku from happening. He also got his dick wet more than any other character. It's weird how you can see that and somehow think he was humiliated.
Shows how little you considered Buntaro, who got the complete short end. Why did you have no sympathy for him? Answer me, you coward.
>he did some things that made him useful and a character looked at him and he got laid >that means all the humiliation didn't happen >that means he wasn't acting stupid/useless 95% of the time
Open your eyes (wide like white man). >Buntaro
Felt bad for the guy. What does that have to do with anything? >Answer me, you coward
LOL! You are not a samurai!
>Probably because the alien could destroy their country?
How?
1600 is not 1800. Nobody could really do shit to Japan at that time. The Spanish and Portuguese tried it against the Chinese and it went poorly, it'd go even worse against the Japanese. Superior European naval and cannon technology wouldn't be enough to fight a land peer that fricking far away from home at the end of an absurd supply chain, nevermind the fact Japan had a bigger population than any European country at the time. Japan wasn't "Mexico"
It's about perception. The Japanese did not know that the wealthy people with gigantic ships and cannons couldn't just show up with more and wipe them out.
I actually enjoyed parts of the show, and it was good compared to literally everything else released nowadays. But man, i swear some people incorporate their fandom into their self worth and get too defensive. A show can be good or entertaining and you can still call out propaganda, especially propaganda that makes the show worse than it could otherwise be.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Felt bad for the guy. What does that have to do with anything?
Good. So we're in agreement that you should empathize with his situation.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Uh, i think you may have confused me with another poster somehow as i never mentioned Buntaro or responded to any Buntaro related comments until you brought him up in a reply to me. I'm glad you have your favorite character though.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yabushige is my favorite character.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I feel old knowing he was in Ichi The Killer
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
killing this homie was a mistake
he was the only relatable character in the show, living for himself whenever he could
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It was the last episode, how is that a mistake?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>season 2 drops >not watching it cuz Yabushige is not there
?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
So you're saying we'll get a season 2?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
We'll never get a Buddy-Samurai show with Yabu and Anjin getting into all kinds of trouble while sailing the seven seas....
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Imagine the swashbuckling
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
And the buckswashling
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Just Toranaga being a massive dildo and killing all his friends and family. "I want peace without fighting! So I'll just kill everyone near and dear to me instead of people I actually should kill!"
Yabu was right, Toranaga is no better than any of the other c**ts around
2 weeks ago
my mom
torinaga is a classic Shakespearean king. smart , ruthless, charismatic, obsessed about power, sacrificing anything and anyone to further his goals.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
That's why they kept him all the way to the finale. His death scene was perfect and probably the most kino moment in the history of modern television
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Let me get blown apart by cannons or eaten by fish instead of regular seppuku >Cool ideas, but you're too tricky. Regular seppuku tomorrow.
What kind of tricks could Yabushige have pulled to get away from the cannon and fish?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's just Toranaga wanting to have a final private talk with Yabushige. That's why he refused his request to let Blackthorne be his second. Would've been hard to have that final talk with canoneers around or angry fish ripping him to shreds.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
What kind of fish would they use for their more interesting executions?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I don't think Japan even has fish that can do that, other than sharks
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Koi.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
He was a coward >no no I don't want to die I need to betray everyone and be a worm! >what, I need to kill myself tomorrow? >ha ha well whatever let's go
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
He was out of options at that point and gave in.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Well he could've run away. He could've struck first. He could've died fighting. He could've sucked his own dick.
There was a lot he could've done. I mean it's not like a bullet to the head. Stabbing yourself in the gut is extremely painful and being decapitated that quickly means your head stays alive for a short while as you contemplate that its over. So for equal pain and suffering he could've just done something else
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You're a man without honour.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I would gladly be the most dishonorable man in the universe if I could suck my own dick
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You have already proven yourself exactly that by even having that opinion. Yabu wouldn't give you a good death. No wild dog would fill it's belly with your corpse.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
No matter what, I'm the winner in the end, with a sore wiener and a belly full of cum
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Any dick in your mouth >Winner
Anon.... come on...
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
MY dick in my mouth. It's masturbation. If YOU could suck your own dick you wouldn't dare question it
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
ANY dick anon... ANY dick and you're not a winner.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
When your head is rolling down the hill, dick unsucked, you'll understand. Of course, by then it'll be far too late
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Anon... you just don't get it... but then again, you are a dick sucker, so who can blame you.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The white man is the main character.
moron alert
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>upset when the main character is a white man
Why are you like this?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The Anjin character is humiliated and made to look moronic
That's weird, he's literally the last person Toranaga looks at before the credits roll and he's also the one who proved worthy of Toranaga sparing his life and actually stopping a sepukku from happening. He also got his dick wet more than any other character. It's weird how you can see that and somehow think he was humiliated.
Shows how little you considered Buntaro, who got the complete short end. Why did you have no sympathy for him? Answer me, you coward.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Nobody has any sympathy for Buntaro, Buntarobros...
There's probably some dudes on 2chan complaining it's a humiliation against Japanese men, kek
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I felt bad for him. He was a true ride or die man of honour and skill. He didn't deserve that level of punishment for what he did.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
He's such a fricking good character it's unreal
At first I thought he'd just be le butthurt angry husband, upset he's mediocre and poorly regarded by Toranaga compared to his more talented father and wife
Then Episode 3 rolls around and we see how much of a badass he is. Combined with the symbology of his Centipede crest, I assume he's a very talented warrior, if a bit of a meathead. A guy who follows the rules of being a Samurai to the letter. It takes him far in the martial field, but not much beyond that. Then we learn his life is most affected by him doing something VERY un-Bushido
Keeping his wife from killing herself
They could have made him a laughably incompetent angry drunk wifebeater, not this multi faceted dude full of surprises. If we get a season 2 I pray to the Kami that we'll get a Buntaro-Anjin bro arc
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
All of the characters were excellent and nuanced. They could've taken an easy rode with all of them but even Ishido had his good points and arguably was a more noble character than Toranaga.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
That's ironically how alot of people in Japan view the historical Ishida Mitsunari. A well intentioned if naïve rather innocent bureaucrat, who had the misfortune of going up against a master diplomat and schemer, a literal God of war, in the form of Tokugawa Ieyasu.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It also showed a lot of character from Buntaro and Anjin during the final sequence pulling the ship out of the sea together.
All he did was misunderstand his wife and be a bit of a jerk to her, but nothing heinous. He deserved better.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
this homie battled his way out of certain death only to get cut down by a woman's yapping.
many such cases.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I actually felt bad for him, like are we supposed to hate him? maybe at the beginning when we dont know much about the characters and he portrayed as a stereotypical abusive husband but after we learn most of the story? Mariko is kinda a b***h that succumbs to despair+90% of the marriage issues was because of her
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
If we were supposed to hate him, he'd get his comeuppance, not John giving him a water bottle at the end.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Actually it's a gourd(?)
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Probably because the alien could destroy their country?
How?
1600 is not 1800. Nobody could really do shit to Japan at that time. The Spanish and Portuguese tried it against the Chinese and it went poorly, it'd go even worse against the Japanese. Superior European naval and cannon technology wouldn't be enough to fight a land peer that fricking far away from home at the end of an absurd supply chain, nevermind the fact Japan had a bigger population than any European country at the time. Japan wasn't "Mexico"
>Historically Japan treated foreigners well
Literally one rule later all foreigners got kicked out of Japan on penalty of death, and were deported to Jakarta.
>It's fricking dogshit >All that production and not a single samurai fight.
Wait..you serious? Not a single fight? You telling me they blew all the money on those ghost of playstation looking posters? Shiet
Shogun does not hold a candle to Game of Thrones, I know you don't like to hear that because you've found some niche show that will look really impressive when you show off your taste portfolio to normies, but it is true.
GoT is not even a character study but it handles it's characters, character dynamics, motives and politics 1000x better than Shogun which is a much more refined and focused story.
Even the dumpsterfire that was later season GoT had more depth than Shogun. Shogun is more comparable to a soap opera than GoT.
This is you.
>slips on wet rock and dies as the cliffhanger
could anybody watch this scene and not laugh? Why would anybody care about this death for them to focus and make it so dramatic was ridiculous.
>GoT
Went to shit and retroactively made the rest of the show shit. I know you don't like to hear it but it's true, the show only works because it sets up so many plot points, but all roads lead to S8 and we all know how that turned out. So yeah, Shogun mogs it hard and it's not even close.
>Went to shit and retroactively made the rest of the show shit.
You say this but then will argue that the finale of Shogun does not 'retroactively' make the entire series a pointless snoozefest that builds up with no pay off.
The difference here, is that GoT was able to tell many compelling stories and provide years of good television, if it didn't, it would not be getting brought up in this thread.
Needing to compare your show with the ending of GoT as an argument reeks of copium >i-i-t's better than the last season of GoT
>You say this but then will argue that the finale of Shogun does not 'retroactively' make the entire series
Because the ending to Shogun was perfect. Literally flawless and if you think there was no payoff then you weren't watching the show. And I'll absolutely defend that stance because I know I'm right but the fact that you know you wouldn't even try to defend S8 of GoT says it all, doesn't it?
There were so many dumb fan theories that each and every one would have made a better convoluted plot than the simple dumbass ending they put there. It's amazing how incompetent they could be.
>Shogun does not hold a candle to Game of Thrones
It's funny you say that because I couldn't stomach more than 2 seasons of that tripe before dropping it like a sack of rocks. Shogun neutered itself but at least it wasn't actively terrible
>GoT is not even a character study but it handles it's characters, character dynamics, motives and politics 1000x better than Shogun which is a much more refined and focused story.
>tranime
It's true, GoT characters were interesting without requiring mountains of exposition between every single action or statement. GoT is complex but is simple to digest, Shogun is simple but pretends to be complex.
Shogun fails to be anything. Fans of Shogun are the type of pretentious contrarians that would be satisfied with pic related as a meal, scoffing at others for enjoying a nice steak with sides.
>Mariko rambles in circles about pottery and kills herself >Toranaga acts like an edgy mastermind and foreshadows things he might do post-show >John is revealed to be comedic relief and served no purpose
Wow, the holy trinity of compelling story arcs. Fuji becoming a nun for whatever reason was also another master stroke
you're actually defending game of thrones? you're defending game of thrones and whining about tornaga's son dying that way? the red wedding is what ridiculous film making looks like
I really liked it a lot but I don't know what to think of the last episode. It was all just an insane amount of build up and then it just goes poof and roll credits. All it does is say >Toranaga eventually wins >Anjin's just there for Toranaga to not feel lonely
but it's not properly shown, just told. It feels very anti-climatic. I don't even care that there was no battle shown, it's a very character focused show after all. But it felt like the series just ends in the middle abruptly.
Is the book the same way? Spoil me. Also Fuji was best girl.
's just there for Toranaga to not feel lonely
He's literally told to build a fleet, which is what happens irl. If anything they made the Anjin far more integral to Toranaga's personal life than he ever was in actual history.
Not necessarily Japanese
He built at least one western style ship for Tokugawa IRL and helped make one for the Date clan that they took across the ocean
I'm just referring to Shogun, and specifically this version of it where Toranaga wants a fleet. I'm assuming he gets it but just doesn't ever let John leave on his own ship, although it's left up to interpretation whether or not it's necessary to keep burning his ship down or if John just eventually makes a conscious choice to stay.
>It feels very anti-climatic.
Rewatch from beginning to end to notice all the things that came full circle. I didn't find it anti-climactic at all, the only thing I would've added was maybe a flash forward scene with Buntaro as an old man with a huge family since he's supposed to have outlived all the other characters.
Yeah it's not very good. And then it ends in a sort of redundant way where you may as well just not watched it at all. Just watch episode 1 and the last third of the last episode and that's it
Yeah that's depressing. It probably means you were only in it for the sword fights and checked out when you saw it was about political intrigue and characters. It's not surprising but it does reflect the overall moroning and Marvelization of Western society.
No, it's just that the story we've been following became pointless. I wouldn't even call it an ending. Stories end, but the story didn't end. It just stopped mattering. So the whole show up until that last third was absolutely pointless. It literally may as well not have happened
>became pointless
Not sure what you mean, I just rewatched the entire thing and every scene was purposeful and played into the wider story. Nothing was wasted or 'pointless'. So if you think it stopped mattering, you probably were on your phone most of the time or just willfully trying to ignore things that happened. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but you sound like you were watching with your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears if you thought nothing happened.
It was pointless. It literally doesn't matter that its tightly woven. The POINT is it becomes untied at the end, and becomes a waste of time. Everything we watched was NOTHING in the end. I don't give a shit about the white guy or the chink. It's just that, I guess, I felt there was no resolution and instead, undoing
You know the show is called Shogun? Maybe that should give you a clue on what the show is about.
I know. Maybe you should articulate your point because whatever you're trying to accuse me of is not anything I had an issue with
>I don't give a shit about the white guy or the chink.
You sound black or jeet.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
In the sense that their story isn't what was grabbing my attention, so that you couldn't accuse me of only wanting to see the white guy or wanting only samurai fights or whatever.
I don't know how you can miss every plot point, you're either just moronic, didn't pay attention or are trolling.
You know, for acting like you get the show so well, you fricking morons seem to have an exceptionally hard time ACTUALLY understanding what I'm saying. I'm thinking you're the one that's moronic
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>In the sense that their story isn't what was grabbing my attention
It got my attention just fine. The end was also flawless.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Good litmus test for if someone's moronic or not: ask them how they felt about the ending to this show.
If they say they were disappointed or unsatisfied, you know right away you're talking to an imbecile with nothing of value to contribute to any conversation ever.
No offense but it just sounds like stories that don't hold your hand the entire time just go completely over your head. It's not really your fault but if you think it was somehow pointless or a waste of time, it just sounds like this type of narrative confuses and frustrates you so you just have to make peace with it not being for you. Go watch another Marvel movie, that sounds like more your type of story.
True, there should've been a big CGI fight that took away from the character moments. Honestly I can't understand why this show refused to insult its audience, it's really annoying.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You can smell your farts all you want moron. I guess this show has joined Quentin's diamond dogs list. Only absolute brainlets are satisfied with the ending it seems, and all they can do is pretend everyone else is moronic and only after big flashy fights or just white guys or just romance etc
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Only absolute brainlets would hate it. I know you hate to hear it because it makes you realize you're moronic but you kind of put yourself in that hole.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Imbecile status: confirmed.
Some people enjoy eating human excrement, so you know what, I don't actually care that you shit eaters like eating shit. It's beneath me, in the sewer, filled with the shit you love to eat.
I think you guys might be happy with the knuckles show. Give that a try, it's right up your alley
>Last Samurai apologists insist the story was really about the samurai and not the Western foreigner (even though everyone watching it knew that was a fricking lie) >Shogun rolls around and is actually about the Shogun and not only the Western foreigner >all Last Samurai apologists show their true colors and admit they just wanted to watch a show about a Western mary sue in Japan
Imagine a literal years long series, with a gigantic caste of characters, focusing on the Sengoku Jidai. Fom the :beginnings" at Okehazama, Nobunaga's rise, early clashes, past his death, Hideyoshi, then Tokugawa, Sekigahara, Siege of Osaka, culminating with the Shimbara Rebellion and every major figure in the period alive during that time. You could go back even further and focus on the Mori clan, they peaked before Nobunaga maed it big.
This show was AWFUL, just a real fricking waste of time from start to finish. There was action sequences and they were laughable, John's actor was atrocious and whilst I understand that the series was limited to it's source material it seems to purposely meander and aim to not please.
The character relationships don't make any sense, Mariko and Toranaga give John no reason to respect them. Mariko in particular was such an annoying and hateable character with her only redeeming quality being her looks which have been debated.
The politics were boring, Toranaga is just an edgy butthole who enjoys lying and getting his subjects killed for no purpose. It is never satisfying to see his plans succeed because of his pretentious nature.
The setting is blue and bland.
I suspect that the nip writers hate the story which is why they explain that it's all a joke (white people so sirry)
True, there should've been a big CGI fight that took away from the character moments. Honestly I can't understand why this show refused to insult its audience, it's really annoying.
What do you get out of acting like a pretentious homosexual in all these threads? Is it truly enough to silence all the criticism people have against the show?
Good litmus test for if someone's moronic or not: ask them how they felt about the ending to this show.
If they say they were disappointed or unsatisfied, you know right away you're talking to an imbecile with nothing of value to contribute to any conversation ever.
Dumb moron if they can't manage to choreograph a badass superfast battle sequence between samurais while its raining when all kinds of vfx and cgi tech are cheap af then they are incompetent scammers banking on time and money of weebcels like you.
Actually, the scene you posted from the final season as example was a really great sequence. Story beats aside, the storming of King's Landing and people getting torched was really well done. Most of that episode was actually good because it was action focused. It's the episodes before and especially after that were the problem.
You should have at least posted a picture of Arya flying towards the Night King like capeslop if you wanted to shitpost properly
>John who lived to the end and shared the final scene with Toranaga is the sidelined character >Mariko who died in service of Toranaga and doesn't even make it to the finale is the main POV character
Mmk.
The entire finale is dedicated to Mariko you idiot. The final scene of the show explains that John's existence is meaningless, for the second half of the series his character was just dawdling around like an idiot and making the drooling over sand like a moron.
>blah blah muh got
kindly frick off. no one cares about your Black person witch show
Hahahahaha piss baby got so filtered
>>uses GoT as an argument
You shills (or most likely one samegay) don't realise that I'm responding to a Shogun defender that original brought GoT into the conversation.
I'm not even hailing GoT as some masterpiece, I'm just saying that does characters, drama and politics better than Shogun. Shogun is written terribly and if you need to justify it's greatness by comparing it with something else, GoT S8 is a very low bar.
If you think that Shogun is better television than the first 4 seasons of Game of Thrones, you are not a serious person.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Forgot to quote:
>GoTards still getting filtered
lol
lmao even
this is the original poster that brought GoT into question.
I thought it was good and boring at the same time.
On one hand I think it's great a show like this, without any excessive action, and with half 2/3 of all the dialog being in Japanese, can become successful. Especially given how much Americans usually complain about subtitles.
But on the other hand, I think the posters and stuff like that blue balls you pretty fricking hard in terms of omitting a battle. I think I would have enjoyed the show better if I wasn't expecting the obligatory battle episode late in the season.
I understand why there wasn't a battle, but I still think they could have shown some battle in a flashback (maybe from the first one Toranaga lead when he was a kid). I think the promo stuff was pretending there'd be something like that, but it wasn't there and I think that's why a lot of people were a little disappointed with it's omission.
I said it in the very first post. Episode one, and the last third of the last episode. If you can't piece it together that's your own fault, and seriously casts doubt on your true understanding of the show
>I said it in the very first post. Episode one, and the last third of the last episode.
Incredible. You repeated the same thing you said in that post: literally nothing. Maybe that's why Shogun frustrates you so much, it has substance and you do not.
They should have made the promotional material less suggestive of battles. People would go in not expecting it then.
I don't think it would have detracted from watching it if you knew, going in, that it was more of a character and political drama.
Not having a battle obviously fits the point of the story and how it progresses, but I still think seeing some sort of major battle (like in the flashback I mentioned) would be cool.
Why? Because samurai battles look cool. It could even have been something similar to the last alliance facing Sauron at the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring. Just short and impactful, showing the horrific shit no child should ever witness, but Toranaga saw during his first battle
I didn't even watch promotional material. Up until 2 days ago I thought it had Black folk so I avoided it. But I saw a picture of a Japanese girl with a cross necklace and decided to watch it. So I went in fresh with no expectations. And it was shit. No it wasn't shit. But it wasn't good. And the ending was shit >ah ha it's because the girl died!
No I was hoping she would kill herself much earlier because the romance was annoying. It was too, soapy
Are you ACTUALLY trying to figure out what about it I don't like or are you just throwing everything at the wall? I said it was soapy. Do you understand what that means? It felt like I was watching daytime television romance drama for women at parts
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
What? I'm with you bro, I fricking hate women. Why do shows keep including them? I wish there was just nonstop homosexualry and buttblasting instead.
My initial reaction was I thought the ending was bad too, but I like it the more I think about it.
I still feel blue balled from not getting a battle, but I think it's because I'm kinda expecting something like that from a show of that caliber/type.
So I think I've narrowed it down. I was too smart so the show was pointless because it had no surprises, and the rest of you were so stupid that it blew your mind at the end with simple reveals
The show does leave a lot of plot points hanging though. Like what happens to the heir and his mum? They betray ishido because ??? and then what does toranaga do with them once he becomes shogun?
The whole portugeuse sideplot and conflict between japs and christians ends up nowhere. Father whatshisname, despite constantly being hinted as a worm, actually does nothing bad the entire time.
I'm the guy who was too smart to enjoy this slop. She sides with shithead because big breasts died as a result of cuckolds bullshit. All calculated by shithead, which is why he sent big breasts over instead of waging all out war. Without her support and her sons army, it was an easy win
The show literally tells you what Toranaga will do as a Shogun (lead Japan into a prosperous time built on peace. Peace won by killing all his friends and family, but peace nonetheless)
>The whole portugeuse sideplot and conflict between japs and christians ends up nowhere.
Because the Toranaga/Tokugawa Shoganate doesn't expel them until a rebellion that happens after Toranaga/Tokugawa dies. Blackthorne may have made Toranaga more aware of them but at that point his priority was still unifying Japan.
>Like what happens to the heir and his mum?
They eventually commit seppuku in Osaka castle. >They betray ishido because ???
Because Ishido was too weak to win against Mariko, much less Toranaga. >and then what does toranaga do with them once he becomes shogun?
He basically retires them, and eventually they revolt and he destroys their clan. >The whole portugeuse sideplot and conflict between japs and christians ends up nowhere
That's a Europe problem.
feel like they really fumbled the anjin/mariko story line because they didn't want to engage in BWC/WMAF memes. so that entire huge part of the story doesn't even really make sense especially given how austere the actress playing mariko comes across. same reasoning seems to be at play with why they didn't waifu anjin up with kiku at the end. come to think of it that entire willow world story line didn't even really go anywhere.
it should've been 2 or even 3 seasons. they had to leave so much material out and compress so much.
a good effort but it ultimately falls flat for me.
so was the women who slept with Anjin in the dark and we cant see her face was actually Mariko? (end of ep 4 I think), just because I thought it was out of character for it to be her I assumed it was a prostitute Mariko got him but idk, thoughts?
It was obviously Mariko and they were pretending it was a prostitute for the wife. But she knew too.
It was Mariko but Anjin was passed out drunk in a dark room so in the morning they told him it was a courtesan she and Fuji hired. She gets what she wanted and they have a cover which Anjin has no real reason to doubt.
It was Mariko but Anjin was passed out drunk in a dark room so in the morning they told him it was a courtesan she and Fuji hired. She gets what she wanted and they have a cover which Anjin has no real reason to doubt.
He clearly remembers the night with her though and tries to talk about it with her which she shuts down.
This is all so obvious, I don't get how this is even a discussion.
The serialized kino that filtered millions. I am now using Shogun as the definitive litmus test to detect moronic morons that will never have a worthwhile opinion on anything and shouldn't be taken seriously. Sorry fa/tv/irgins.
>I am now using Shogun as the definitive litmus test to detect moronic morons
This is very fair. The creators easily could have made this show far more moron-friendly (e.g. more focus on battles, more comic relief and gratutious torture from Yabu, sex scenes) without changing all that much, but they tastefully chose not to.
Great viewership numbers indicate that the middle of the bell curve is pleased with the show, and high IQ kino appreciators love it, so it's a fairer test than most.
Doesn't the name of the show kinda imply that Toranaga is the main character (or at least one of the main characters)? Why did he get so little screen time in the last 4-5 episodes? We don't even get to see him become Shogun. The show title is a lie.
normies will have finished this show not even knowing what a Shogun is. John, who is also supposed to be the main POV character is sidelined.
the showrunners made an intentional decision to make Mariko the focus and there just wasn't enough meat there to justify this which is why the show drags on.
>cool samurai battles, thrilling political intrigue, exploring the vast beauty of Japan? NO, didn't you stop to think about the feelings of the court translator!? That's the REAL story
people kept saying that Shogun was 10 episodes of edging but never cumming but it's worse than that, Shogun is being locked in the cuck shed unaware of what's even going on inside.
>John who lived to the end and shared the final scene with Toranaga is the sidelined character >Mariko who died in service of Toranaga and doesn't even make it to the finale is the main POV character
Mmk.
>We don't even get to see him become Shogun.
But didn't we? We met on the battlefield of his fellow samurai and ended senseless bloodshed. He did that, along with everyone's help.
Mariko fooled me, I thought I was redpilled and there is no such thing pure, beautiful, angelic women but for a few moments I thought it was possible until it becomes clear she is just like the rest of them
Yea I'm kind of disappointed
I literally shouted KINO like an autist when Buntaro and Anjin finished pulling the ship up and rest while Toranaga just basks in his victory and the theme kicked in
>Asian men hate the show because a white guy fricks Asian women >Catholics hate the show because John Blackthorne hates them >Protestants hate the show because John didn't do a whole lot to defeat the Catholics >Bookgays hate the show because it didn't copy the books 1:1 >Marvelgays hate the show because there is no soulless epic battle or orange slices >Illiterates hate the show because they have to read subtitles >Normies hate the show because because Japan is too weird for them >Zoomers hate the show because it's longer than 5 seconds and thats too much time away from their phones >Contrarians hate the show because it's good >Boomers hate the show because a 1980 version exists and "Old Good, New Bad" is their slogan >/got/ hates the show because the Regents didn't award the title of Shogun to the one with the best story >Animegays hate the show because Toranaga doesn't have an episode long fight with Ishido that takes place mid-air with their katanas clashing a thousand times a second >Lefties hate the show because a strong black woman doesn't become Shogun >/misc/ hates the show because it didn't have John become Shogun while turning Japan into his personal harem >Only the cultured few who wanted to see a story that remained authentic and true to the Japanese culture of the period enjoyed the show.
The filtering shall continue
Bookgay here. I barely remember the book, read it in 2003. Couldnt get past episode 7. Also, the battle of Sekigahara is basically the epilogue of the book and briefly described.
5/10 tv series. You could have told the same story with half the episodes. Editing is underrated.
Shogun is simply put too slow. If you cant tell a simple story in 5-6 episodes, then dont tell it. Look at Chernobyl or similar mini series. 6-8 is the sweet spot. When I found out that Shogun was 10 episodes, I was done at 7.
Im gonna say it: a show about samurai warlords where they carry swords around all damn day should have a couple big sword fights in it. That’s not a smooth brain opinion to want a show about samurai wars to feature at least one big samurai battle.
>series/book ends with main character telling other character “this is what is going to happen, but we couldn’t be bothered to film/write it, so this is the ending lol”
Woah…
I skipped the whole thing because it was obvious from the trailer alone that it was going to be 90% political slope. If there was going to be action the trailer would have shown so because that´s a high selling point.
See? Quality aside if there was going to be action the trailer would have shown it.
it was hubris to think you could tell shogun in only 10 hours without stripping off so much that all is left is a speedrun through the main plot device.
its insanely boring and also pozzed as frick
showrunner said this
>“There’s a silhouette [on the cover of] this book,” Marks says. “And the silhouette is a guy who looks a lot like me wearing clothes that don’t belong to his culture, and it’s a problematic silhouette. I mean that on two levels. There’s the representational aspect, which is probably not for me to speak to. But I can speak to the creative aspect, which is, I’ve seen that story a billion times before, and I’m tired of that story as an audience member. So, if you’re going to get me to sign up for this show, what is this show going to have to do?
then his JAPANESE WIFE loved the story so he agreed to work on it but removed almost all of the WMAF romance so the story barely makes sense
>it's brightened. the original show is dark as frick
So you are telling me they have no battle sequence, and the remaining portion of the slop is shot in the dark?
is the Mariko actress natty or bogged? unironically one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen, didn't have a celebrity crash for years, kinda hurts
The first two episodes were terrific. Then the show descends into female melodrama. I didnt like any of the main characters, all fricking annoying. Ishido was a moron, Toronaga an unsympathetic butthole, Mariko a depressed wreck that is always whining about killing herself, Blackthorne a useless bum... Ironically it was the side characters like Yabushige, Buntaro and the Portuguese priest that I enjoyed the most
No Man's Sky, the first 4 hours of the game trick you into thinking it's good (just like the show) then it never really goes anywhere and you start doing the same thing over and over again.
lmao at all the weebcucks in here coping by saying the show is about "characters" and "political intrigue" that Westerners wouldn't understand, LMAO. lol.
Characters?? Mariko is the only one with a half-decent story arc and that ends up just being "you can finally have a nice day, brave woman martyr!" but her death accomplishes nothing anyway.
Political Intrigue? LOL. Do any of the characters actually do anything besides Toranaga? The big bad council just sits cross-legged and complains about shit, and Le epic rousemaster Toranaga just keeps lying to his followers because everyone is out to get him and no one can be trusted!. Wow. Now that's what I call a political thriller!
Zero redeeming characters, I didn't give a frick about anyone because all their stories were undercooked, the show continuously alluded to things and then would le heckin subvert expectations by completely disregarding them in the next episode.
Episodes 3 to 9 were essentially: >Person A brings up their worries to Toranaga. >Toranaga glares at them, and then grunts and scoffs. >Person A gets mildly confused/annoyed. >Toranaga refuses their pleas and says his word is final! >Person A leaves >Person B brings up their worries to Toranaga. >Repeat
Almost no character was even relevant to the plot, they were all just orbiting around Toranaga waiting for him to do something.
Oh wait, now I get it... It's the exact same formula as an Issekai anime. holy frick lmao. No wonder Cinemaphile simps for this shit.
Still a 6/10 show though.
I think you're the moron, the characters mention storming/attacking Osaka multiple times, the show was bad get over it. >"something will happen!" >erm ackshually it was a red herring and misdirection and and and
>Literally what happened in the show.
You stupid Black person, the rule of cool will always prevail. Who the frick wants to see John Wick talking to crime bosses for 3 hours about his dead dog? Absolutely fricking nobody.
Your time-wasting moronic show will be forgotten and never mentioned again.
>the rule of cool will always prevail
This. I kept waiting for Captain Marvel to show up and vaporize Ishido's castle and it never happened. 0/10, will never doubt Feige again.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Resorting to Marvel strawmen, the ultimate sign of desperation and defeat
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Anyone who unironically uses the term "rule of cool" is a Marvel goyslopper, this is a fact.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
So true, where was Iron Man with the infinity stones when you needed him?
>character is outright stated to be seen as a scheming trickster >hurr why didn't he do the moronic zerg rush plan like he said
Look at this moron, what a fricking Ishido.
Has a series ever mindbroken Cinemaphile this much? I knew it was kino when people barged into the generals saying they didn't understand the Blackthorne dream.
No, it wasn't. The camera focused on the rosary several times in the dream and then the second to last scene was all about him letting it go. I hate using this word but this series was the ultimate filter. I'm glad I got to experience the midwits who were unable to understand what was happening in the last three episodes.
All my friends in real life understood the dream, and some of them are moronic. Only on this board did I find anyone who actually didn't understand what the dream represented and got asshurt when called out on not understanding basic storytelling.
You're wasting your time. Rather than go back and watch what he clearly missed, he'd rather cry about it here and blame the show.
But yeah it filters so fricking hard. I've never felt so superior to so many capeshit goysloppers. It's exhilarating, the closest one can get to heaven.
There's nothing to "get" about the ending. Morons for some reason expected a big battle between good samurai and bad samurai, when the entire point was to avoid bloodshed.
Yeah, tell that to all the people he sent to be slaughtered. Nothing like avoiding bloodshed than decapitating your citizens and sticking their heads on poles!
They were spikes, not poles. You weren't even paying attention. Also he killed dozens to save millions. You would've sacrificed millions and also lost.
How? Japan wasn't even at war, and the council was getting along just fine. Toranaga started the conflict because he sperged out after getting kicked out
>and the council was getting along just fine
alright you are just moronic
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
How was it not?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
see
>and the council was getting along just fine
The Christians were just waiting to backstab Ishido for their Portuguese masters and Ishido always intended to dominate the council in the same way Toranaga was trying to, that's why he detained them and tried to marry Ochiba.
Ishido was a peasant who couldn't even outmaneuver Toranaga. How could he be trusted to protect Japan or maintain its peace?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Wasn't the previous big shot that died and everyone worshipped also a peasant aka hideyoshi?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah and that's why he dies without having established a lasting central government. Toranaga/Tokugawa Shogunate ends up lasting well over two centuries after his death.
>and the council was getting along just fine
The Christians were just waiting to backstab Ishido for their Portuguese masters and Ishido always intended to dominate the council in the same way Toranaga was trying to, that's why he detained them and tried to marry Ochiba.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You're right, these little personal dramas within the council totally would have resulted in millions of innocent deaths
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
One group is trying to get Japan conquered by the Portuguese, the other is trying to rise above his station to become a peasant ruler in the same way the Taiko did, pissing off the Christians in the process. Either result would have led to thousands and thousands of deaths.
>One moron, one old man, one woman and a few villagers assuming those heads weren't just people who died of natural causes as part of Toranaga's test of Blackthorne
vs >Hundreds of thousands of people in yet another sengoku jidai
Also, yeah, the character still has a fair amount of moral ambiguity to him. The show didn't make that clear?
Lost was literally JJ Abrams' mystery box that eventually ran out of steam after x seasons, same with BSG. Every scene in Shogun was filmed with purpose and the ending is flawless. It's only when you point out all the broadcasted elements that made it clear where the story was going that goyslurpers lose their shit and get irrationally angry that they missed it and so redirect it to the show instead of accepting that they're NPCs.
I hate shows where one character is in complete control, thinks 25 steps ahead of everyone else, and successfully manipulates everything and everyone to their will. It's such a fricking stupid trope
First 4 episodes are nice
last 6 are drama
What pisses me off the most is how they keep building up to this war that is going happen but every episode is a blue ball after blue ball
go back to watching capeslop
moron
This time period is when the whole country went to war. I would like to actually see it.
They could easily supplement the show with real historical events like how Tokugawa(Toranaga) unified Japan.
We didn't even get to see a big CGI battle with a blue beam in the sky or Round 2 between Hulk and Thanos.
0/10 #NotMyShogun
I still enjoyed parts of the show. Compared to most media these days, it was interesting and well made. But it is undeniable that the main character was humiliated and made to look moronic. Probably so that the show could get made at all.
How was Toranaga humiliated?
I think he was talking about the white man who had yellow fever and was ultimately completely useless to the plot.
This. The show is all setup no payoff. Weebs keep doubling down and acting like it's some kind of pleb filter when it's just a bad show.
Performances from the two English speaking leads were mediocre at best.
>there will be a war
>good guy: I want to avoid war but still win
>good guy wins and a war is avoided
yooo where's thanos???
see
if you think they were setting up some big final battle, you are just moronic, sorry
If you think this is blue balls, wait till you read the book. Some anon needs to share a picture of the last page. Literally one of the worst pieces of writing in history, just because of that abrupt ending (after 600 pages of buildup)
Pretty much. Blue Ballz: The TV Show.
more like only the first episode was good. they show a dude getting boiled alive, kino cinematography, and dudes voluntaring their kids for seppeku.
then mariko is introduced and she constantly rambles on about bullshit, betrayal, and "your true face" i lost interest by the fourth episode. genuinely was disappointed, becuase i thought we were getting a games of thrones esque show.
This. No one even drew their blades. It was just women crying and getting the BWC. Literal pornography.
Filtered actiongays. Read a book you sub 80 IQ marvelsloppas.
>HURRRRRRR WHER’S BIG BADDLE LIKE GAME OF THRONES?????
They are fricking moronic.
Don't worry anon, I read loads of books in my spare time
Huh, a show about a white guy, in Japan? And there's no black samurai running around?? Why was this allowed to be ma-
>first episode a jap pisses on the head of the white main character
>never gets revenge
>most of the time he is a bumbling awkward buffoon
>events mostly happen around him without much input and he's not really the main character, 'Japan' is
Lame.
>never gets revenge
>literally cucks him
>embarrasses him in front of his guards
>rises higher in the ranks of importance than Omi
Why don't you seethe about him never getting revenge on Omi for making him say "I am a dog"
I mean Yabushige
It's not revenge if you don't realize you're doing it, and the guy getting revenged-on doesn't even mind that much because the guy is dating a prostitute.
>for making him say "I am a dog"
All the humiliation is bad, and only done so the show can be made. They have to meet a white humiliation quota or shlomo won't sign off on it.
>seethe
It's just the truth, man.
All that happened in the book
Do you expect a xenophobic culture like Japan to treat foreigners well? If they did then you'd be b***hing about that
Obviously a white man is going to be humiliation ritual'd in Japan, it's not his country. If it was a nig getting free wives, titles, swords, fancy clothes, and prostitutes I bet you'd be raging
>All that happened in the book
You're saying that in the book, he got his head pissed on? And constantly ridiculed with no response? Could be so, didn't read it. Could you find the passages and post them?
>bitching
If you have to frame all disagreement as "other side is mad, that means i'm right" then you just look like an idiot with no argument. Stop doing it if you want to be taken seriously.
>Obviously a white man is going to be humiliation ritual'd in Japan
No. That's just a thing you like to think about. Historically Japan treated foreigners well, especially useful ones. The real historical figure the character is based on was very highly regarded.
>If something that is impossible happened you would think that is not good, and that must mean you are angry
Lol.
I'm aware William Adams was far better treated than John Blackthorne but he was the exception, not the rule
They executed their own for impropriety, why would they treat an alien better? They didn't know he was useful at the time
>why would they treat an alien better?
Probably because the alien could destroy their country? As far as i've read, which admittedly isn't that much, both sides were quite civil most of the time. Especially in comparison to other encounters the white man had as he travelled around the world.
Anyway that's really beside the point. The Anjin character is humiliated and made to look moronic, because you cannot make competent straight white male characters now. ESPECIALLY if they're going to be involved with a different race/culture and possibly show superiority by any metric at all.
This is how it is with israelite controlled media.
The moronic white man saves the main charactere's life like three times.
The white man is the main character. But yes, he saves an important character's life, then goes back to being a buffoon instantly. It was required to show some reason he's kept around, or even normies would be like "wtf is Toranaga keeping him there for?" Anjin needed to be a cool guy, not an autistic moron doing a Tom Hardy impression. I'd say the same if the show had an entirely Japanese cast. The main character has to be cool, but they wouldn't allow it.
>he did some things that made him useful and a character looked at him and he got laid
>that means all the humiliation didn't happen
>that means he wasn't acting stupid/useless 95% of the time
Open your eyes (wide like white man).
>Buntaro
Felt bad for the guy. What does that have to do with anything?
>Answer me, you coward
LOL! You are not a samurai!
It's about perception. The Japanese did not know that the wealthy people with gigantic ships and cannons couldn't just show up with more and wipe them out.
I actually enjoyed parts of the show, and it was good compared to literally everything else released nowadays. But man, i swear some people incorporate their fandom into their self worth and get too defensive. A show can be good or entertaining and you can still call out propaganda, especially propaganda that makes the show worse than it could otherwise be.
>Felt bad for the guy. What does that have to do with anything?
Good. So we're in agreement that you should empathize with his situation.
Uh, i think you may have confused me with another poster somehow as i never mentioned Buntaro or responded to any Buntaro related comments until you brought him up in a reply to me. I'm glad you have your favorite character though.
Yabushige is my favorite character.
I feel old knowing he was in Ichi The Killer
killing this homie was a mistake
he was the only relatable character in the show, living for himself whenever he could
It was the last episode, how is that a mistake?
>season 2 drops
>not watching it cuz Yabushige is not there
?
So you're saying we'll get a season 2?
We'll never get a Buddy-Samurai show with Yabu and Anjin getting into all kinds of trouble while sailing the seven seas....
Imagine the swashbuckling
And the buckswashling
Just Toranaga being a massive dildo and killing all his friends and family. "I want peace without fighting! So I'll just kill everyone near and dear to me instead of people I actually should kill!"
Yabu was right, Toranaga is no better than any of the other c**ts around
torinaga is a classic Shakespearean king. smart , ruthless, charismatic, obsessed about power, sacrificing anything and anyone to further his goals.
That's why they kept him all the way to the finale. His death scene was perfect and probably the most kino moment in the history of modern television
>Let me get blown apart by cannons or eaten by fish instead of regular seppuku
>Cool ideas, but you're too tricky. Regular seppuku tomorrow.
What kind of tricks could Yabushige have pulled to get away from the cannon and fish?
It's just Toranaga wanting to have a final private talk with Yabushige. That's why he refused his request to let Blackthorne be his second. Would've been hard to have that final talk with canoneers around or angry fish ripping him to shreds.
What kind of fish would they use for their more interesting executions?
I don't think Japan even has fish that can do that, other than sharks
Koi.
He was a coward
>no no I don't want to die I need to betray everyone and be a worm!
>what, I need to kill myself tomorrow?
>ha ha well whatever let's go
He was out of options at that point and gave in.
Well he could've run away. He could've struck first. He could've died fighting. He could've sucked his own dick.
There was a lot he could've done. I mean it's not like a bullet to the head. Stabbing yourself in the gut is extremely painful and being decapitated that quickly means your head stays alive for a short while as you contemplate that its over. So for equal pain and suffering he could've just done something else
You're a man without honour.
I would gladly be the most dishonorable man in the universe if I could suck my own dick
You have already proven yourself exactly that by even having that opinion. Yabu wouldn't give you a good death. No wild dog would fill it's belly with your corpse.
No matter what, I'm the winner in the end, with a sore wiener and a belly full of cum
>Any dick in your mouth
>Winner
Anon.... come on...
MY dick in my mouth. It's masturbation. If YOU could suck your own dick you wouldn't dare question it
ANY dick anon... ANY dick and you're not a winner.
When your head is rolling down the hill, dick unsucked, you'll understand. Of course, by then it'll be far too late
Anon... you just don't get it... but then again, you are a dick sucker, so who can blame you.
>The white man is the main character.
moron alert
>upset when the main character is a white man
Why are you like this?
>The Anjin character is humiliated and made to look moronic
That's weird, he's literally the last person Toranaga looks at before the credits roll and he's also the one who proved worthy of Toranaga sparing his life and actually stopping a sepukku from happening. He also got his dick wet more than any other character. It's weird how you can see that and somehow think he was humiliated.
Shows how little you considered Buntaro, who got the complete short end. Why did you have no sympathy for him? Answer me, you coward.
Nobody has any sympathy for Buntaro, Buntarobros...
There's probably some dudes on 2chan complaining it's a humiliation against Japanese men, kek
I felt bad for him. He was a true ride or die man of honour and skill. He didn't deserve that level of punishment for what he did.
He's such a fricking good character it's unreal
At first I thought he'd just be le butthurt angry husband, upset he's mediocre and poorly regarded by Toranaga compared to his more talented father and wife
Then Episode 3 rolls around and we see how much of a badass he is. Combined with the symbology of his Centipede crest, I assume he's a very talented warrior, if a bit of a meathead. A guy who follows the rules of being a Samurai to the letter. It takes him far in the martial field, but not much beyond that. Then we learn his life is most affected by him doing something VERY un-Bushido
Keeping his wife from killing herself
They could have made him a laughably incompetent angry drunk wifebeater, not this multi faceted dude full of surprises. If we get a season 2 I pray to the Kami that we'll get a Buntaro-Anjin bro arc
All of the characters were excellent and nuanced. They could've taken an easy rode with all of them but even Ishido had his good points and arguably was a more noble character than Toranaga.
That's ironically how alot of people in Japan view the historical Ishida Mitsunari. A well intentioned if naïve rather innocent bureaucrat, who had the misfortune of going up against a master diplomat and schemer, a literal God of war, in the form of Tokugawa Ieyasu.
It also showed a lot of character from Buntaro and Anjin during the final sequence pulling the ship out of the sea together.
All he did was misunderstand his wife and be a bit of a jerk to her, but nothing heinous. He deserved better.
this homie battled his way out of certain death only to get cut down by a woman's yapping.
many such cases.
I actually felt bad for him, like are we supposed to hate him? maybe at the beginning when we dont know much about the characters and he portrayed as a stereotypical abusive husband but after we learn most of the story? Mariko is kinda a b***h that succumbs to despair+90% of the marriage issues was because of her
If we were supposed to hate him, he'd get his comeuppance, not John giving him a water bottle at the end.
Actually it's a gourd(?)
>Probably because the alien could destroy their country?
How?
1600 is not 1800. Nobody could really do shit to Japan at that time. The Spanish and Portuguese tried it against the Chinese and it went poorly, it'd go even worse against the Japanese. Superior European naval and cannon technology wouldn't be enough to fight a land peer that fricking far away from home at the end of an absurd supply chain, nevermind the fact Japan had a bigger population than any European country at the time. Japan wasn't "Mexico"
>Historically Japan treated foreigners well
Literally one rule later all foreigners got kicked out of Japan on penalty of death, and were deported to Jakarta.
Checked
> They have to meet a white humiliation quota
This humiliation starts with hiring a mutt to play a blond blue eyed Englishman
English men were mutts (Saxons + Anglos + Danes+ Celts + Normans) before Amerimutts were mutts
Blackthorn/Adams was blonde and blue eyed
I don't really care, it's not like they hired a subsaharan to play an englishman
‘course you don’t
Based speedwatcher missed the scene where the white guy cucks the jap who pissed on him.
You're the real speedwatcher if you think Anjin and Kiku actually fricked that night.
>It's fricking dogshit
>All that production and not a single samurai fight.
Wait..you serious? Not a single fight? You telling me they blew all the money on those ghost of playstation looking posters? Shiet
How does it compare to Harakiri and picrel?
>how does a low budget TV show from 2024 compare to two of the greatest samurai movies of all time
Great question.
>How does a highly rated, critically acclaimed tv show compare to the classics it was clearly influenced by?
ftfy
No he's right. Shogun is very cheap. Most of it is filmed on a green screen and you can tell
You were filmed on a green screen.
>green screen
As if they could afford that. It's Canada. That's why it looks cheap.
I was gifted a nice copy of the book and the show is not inspiring me to power these 1000pages, anyone read it ?
>GoTards still getting filtered
lol
lmao even
Shogun does not hold a candle to Game of Thrones, I know you don't like to hear that because you've found some niche show that will look really impressive when you show off your taste portfolio to normies, but it is true.
GoT is not even a character study but it handles it's characters, character dynamics, motives and politics 1000x better than Shogun which is a much more refined and focused story.
Even the dumpsterfire that was later season GoT had more depth than Shogun. Shogun is more comparable to a soap opera than GoT.
>slips on wet rock and dies as the cliffhanger
could anybody watch this scene and not laugh? Why would anybody care about this death for them to focus and make it so dramatic was ridiculous.
>GoT
Went to shit and retroactively made the rest of the show shit. I know you don't like to hear it but it's true, the show only works because it sets up so many plot points, but all roads lead to S8 and we all know how that turned out. So yeah, Shogun mogs it hard and it's not even close.
>Went to shit and retroactively made the rest of the show shit.
You say this but then will argue that the finale of Shogun does not 'retroactively' make the entire series a pointless snoozefest that builds up with no pay off.
The difference here, is that GoT was able to tell many compelling stories and provide years of good television, if it didn't, it would not be getting brought up in this thread.
Needing to compare your show with the ending of GoT as an argument reeks of copium
>i-i-t's better than the last season of GoT
>You say this but then will argue that the finale of Shogun does not 'retroactively' make the entire series
Because the ending to Shogun was perfect. Literally flawless and if you think there was no payoff then you weren't watching the show. And I'll absolutely defend that stance because I know I'm right but the fact that you know you wouldn't even try to defend S8 of GoT says it all, doesn't it?
And that's checkmate.
There were so many dumb fan theories that each and every one would have made a better convoluted plot than the simple dumbass ending they put there. It's amazing how incompetent they could be.
That's ironic considering the ending of Shogun sucked my butthole as well
You sucked my butthole.
>Shogun does not hold a candle to Game of Thrones
It's funny you say that because I couldn't stomach more than 2 seasons of that tripe before dropping it like a sack of rocks. Shogun neutered itself but at least it wasn't actively terrible
>GoT is not even a character study but it handles it's characters, character dynamics, motives and politics 1000x better than Shogun which is a much more refined and focused story.
>tranime
It's true, GoT characters were interesting without requiring mountains of exposition between every single action or statement. GoT is complex but is simple to digest, Shogun is simple but pretends to be complex.
Shogun fails to be anything. Fans of Shogun are the type of pretentious contrarians that would be satisfied with pic related as a meal, scoffing at others for enjoying a nice steak with sides.
Yeah it was really interesting when all the GoT character ultimately arcs went nowhere. Truly GoT is one of the fantasy epics of our time.
>Mariko rambles in circles about pottery and kills herself
>Toranaga acts like an edgy mastermind and foreshadows things he might do post-show
>John is revealed to be comedic relief and served no purpose
Wow, the holy trinity of compelling story arcs. Fuji becoming a nun for whatever reason was also another master stroke
you're actually defending game of thrones? you're defending game of thrones and whining about tornaga's son dying that way? the red wedding is what ridiculous film making looks like
I really liked it a lot but I don't know what to think of the last episode. It was all just an insane amount of build up and then it just goes poof and roll credits. All it does is say
>Toranaga eventually wins
>Anjin's just there for Toranaga to not feel lonely
but it's not properly shown, just told. It feels very anti-climatic. I don't even care that there was no battle shown, it's a very character focused show after all. But it felt like the series just ends in the middle abruptly.
Is the book the same way? Spoil me. Also Fuji was best girl.
's just there for Toranaga to not feel lonely
He's literally told to build a fleet, which is what happens irl. If anything they made the Anjin far more integral to Toranaga's personal life than he ever was in actual history.
Why did Toranaga say that he would destroy his ship a second time? Was it just to keep him in Japan?
Yep. He wants him to build his own fleet of Japanese ships but as for the Erasmus, he doesn't want anything that would get John back to England.
Not necessarily Japanese
He built at least one western style ship for Tokugawa IRL and helped make one for the Date clan that they took across the ocean
I'm just referring to Shogun, and specifically this version of it where Toranaga wants a fleet. I'm assuming he gets it but just doesn't ever let John leave on his own ship, although it's left up to interpretation whether or not it's necessary to keep burning his ship down or if John just eventually makes a conscious choice to stay.
>It feels very anti-climatic.
Rewatch from beginning to end to notice all the things that came full circle. I didn't find it anti-climactic at all, the only thing I would've added was maybe a flash forward scene with Buntaro as an old man with a huge family since he's supposed to have outlived all the other characters.
Yeah it's not very good. And then it ends in a sort of redundant way where you may as well just not watched it at all. Just watch episode 1 and the last third of the last episode and that's it
Yeah that's depressing. It probably means you were only in it for the sword fights and checked out when you saw it was about political intrigue and characters. It's not surprising but it does reflect the overall moroning and Marvelization of Western society.
No, it's just that the story we've been following became pointless. I wouldn't even call it an ending. Stories end, but the story didn't end. It just stopped mattering. So the whole show up until that last third was absolutely pointless. It literally may as well not have happened
you might be autistic
Can you literally not reply with anything but an insult? Show was shit dude. Waste of time
You know the show is called Shogun? Maybe that should give you a clue on what the show is about.
Yet there is no shogun in the show. Curious. They don't even show the future shogun become the shogun.
>became pointless
Not sure what you mean, I just rewatched the entire thing and every scene was purposeful and played into the wider story. Nothing was wasted or 'pointless'. So if you think it stopped mattering, you probably were on your phone most of the time or just willfully trying to ignore things that happened. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but you sound like you were watching with your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears if you thought nothing happened.
It was pointless. It literally doesn't matter that its tightly woven. The POINT is it becomes untied at the end, and becomes a waste of time. Everything we watched was NOTHING in the end. I don't give a shit about the white guy or the chink. It's just that, I guess, I felt there was no resolution and instead, undoing
I know. Maybe you should articulate your point because whatever you're trying to accuse me of is not anything I had an issue with
>I don't give a shit about the white guy or the chink.
You sound black or jeet.
In the sense that their story isn't what was grabbing my attention, so that you couldn't accuse me of only wanting to see the white guy or wanting only samurai fights or whatever.
You know, for acting like you get the show so well, you fricking morons seem to have an exceptionally hard time ACTUALLY understanding what I'm saying. I'm thinking you're the one that's moronic
>In the sense that their story isn't what was grabbing my attention
It got my attention just fine. The end was also flawless.
You guys are incredibly stupid
Imbecile status: confirmed.
I don't know how you can miss every plot point, you're either just moronic, didn't pay attention or are trolling.
No offense but it just sounds like stories that don't hold your hand the entire time just go completely over your head. It's not really your fault but if you think it was somehow pointless or a waste of time, it just sounds like this type of narrative confuses and frustrates you so you just have to make peace with it not being for you. Go watch another Marvel movie, that sounds like more your type of story.
You're huffing your own farts. It's just not that good a show.
True, there should've been a big CGI fight that took away from the character moments. Honestly I can't understand why this show refused to insult its audience, it's really annoying.
You can smell your farts all you want moron. I guess this show has joined Quentin's diamond dogs list. Only absolute brainlets are satisfied with the ending it seems, and all they can do is pretend everyone else is moronic and only after big flashy fights or just white guys or just romance etc
Only absolute brainlets would hate it. I know you hate to hear it because it makes you realize you're moronic but you kind of put yourself in that hole.
Some people enjoy eating human excrement, so you know what, I don't actually care that you shit eaters like eating shit. It's beneath me, in the sewer, filled with the shit you love to eat.
I think you guys might be happy with the knuckles show. Give that a try, it's right up your alley
You're subhuman excrement.
It’s about the characters dipshit. Not everything has to have a “point” - it’s a political slice of life.
>Last Samurai apologists insist the story was really about the samurai and not the Western foreigner (even though everyone watching it knew that was a fricking lie)
>Shogun rolls around and is actually about the Shogun and not only the Western foreigner
>all Last Samurai apologists show their true colors and admit they just wanted to watch a show about a Western mary sue in Japan
I really wished they didn't make a show about a white guy and a bunch of portuguesers dicking around in Japan. I wish it was just about samurai
Imagine a literal years long series, with a gigantic caste of characters, focusing on the Sengoku Jidai. Fom the :beginnings" at Okehazama, Nobunaga's rise, early clashes, past his death, Hideyoshi, then Tokugawa, Sekigahara, Siege of Osaka, culminating with the Shimbara Rebellion and every major figure in the period alive during that time. You could go back even further and focus on the Mori clan, they peaked before Nobunaga maed it big.
Watch Dou Suru Ieyasu.
I see the shills have finally disappeared.
This show was AWFUL, just a real fricking waste of time from start to finish. There was action sequences and they were laughable, John's actor was atrocious and whilst I understand that the series was limited to it's source material it seems to purposely meander and aim to not please.
The character relationships don't make any sense, Mariko and Toranaga give John no reason to respect them. Mariko in particular was such an annoying and hateable character with her only redeeming quality being her looks which have been debated.
The politics were boring, Toranaga is just an edgy butthole who enjoys lying and getting his subjects killed for no purpose. It is never satisfying to see his plans succeed because of his pretentious nature.
The setting is blue and bland.
I suspect that the nip writers hate the story which is why they explain that it's all a joke (white people so sirry)
Frick anyone that defends this mediocrity
This is you.
This one of the best replies that I've seen on Cinemaphile. 10/10 kekeroooo
not really big on the main asian chick. the one from the 80s seemed better
It felt like wasted potential.
Fulfilled potential for you would've looked like this.
What do you get out of acting like a pretentious homosexual in all these threads? Is it truly enough to silence all the criticism people have against the show?
I wanted to see the Battle of Sekigahara.
after the canon episode, it went to shit fast
real fast
timmy starts talking full japanese out of nowhere and becomes a weeb over night
gets a harem of women who desire him within a few episodes
it is literally a live action anime
Good litmus test for if someone's moronic or not: ask them how they felt about the ending to this show.
If they say they were disappointed or unsatisfied, you know right away you're talking to an imbecile with nothing of value to contribute to any conversation ever.
I wanted to see the Battle of Sekigahara.
Very nice pic of /ourguy/ Buntaro
The ending was hardly the issue, the entire show had a writing problem tee bee aych.
Dumb moron if they can't manage to choreograph a badass superfast battle sequence between samurais while its raining when all kinds of vfx and cgi tech are cheap af then they are incompetent scammers banking on time and money of weebcels like you.
>muh battle
Ah yes. Like GoT.
>Swiftly ignores the filler seasons
I wonder why.
>filler seasons
Answered your own question.
>Le hecking asiaticcel webm will show them
Lets see your jav collection too
>got rekt
>getting mad
Part and parcel.
>Can't deal with the fact that his heckin asiaticcel fantasy gooning series is shitty and cheap af
>Ha i rekt you!
>still crying
Laffin
>Gets overhyped
>Receives underdelivered
>Still defends shitslop cuz muh heckin asiaticcel weeb fantasy gooning moments
Life is tough.
>>Gets overhyped
Projection detected.
go re-watch fallout, kid.
>b-b-but GoT!
pathetic.
Actually, the scene you posted from the final season as example was a really great sequence. Story beats aside, the storming of King's Landing and people getting torched was really well done. Most of that episode was actually good because it was action focused. It's the episodes before and especially after that were the problem.
You should have at least posted a picture of Arya flying towards the Night King like capeslop if you wanted to shitpost properly
The entire finale is dedicated to Mariko you idiot. The final scene of the show explains that John's existence is meaningless, for the second half of the series his character was just dawdling around like an idiot and making the drooling over sand like a moron.
>uses GoT as an argument
>realizes he fricked up
>y-you're the one bringing it up... p-p-pathetic
lul
>>uses GoT as an argument
You shills (or most likely one samegay) don't realise that I'm responding to a Shogun defender that original brought GoT into the conversation.
I'm not even hailing GoT as some masterpiece, I'm just saying that does characters, drama and politics better than Shogun. Shogun is written terribly and if you need to justify it's greatness by comparing it with something else, GoT S8 is a very low bar.
If you think that Shogun is better television than the first 4 seasons of Game of Thrones, you are not a serious person.
Forgot to quote:
this is the original poster that brought GoT into question.
>blah blah muh got
kindly frick off. no one cares about your Black person witch show
nothing happens in the pic you just posted
Hahahahaha piss baby got so filtered
100% you're one of those white dudes who is into anime and this guy
don't badmouth Jeol Davis. he's trying his best.
Is the one in the back also for offer?
I thought it was good and boring at the same time.
On one hand I think it's great a show like this, without any excessive action, and with half 2/3 of all the dialog being in Japanese, can become successful. Especially given how much Americans usually complain about subtitles.
But on the other hand, I think the posters and stuff like that blue balls you pretty fricking hard in terms of omitting a battle. I think I would have enjoyed the show better if I wasn't expecting the obligatory battle episode late in the season.
I understand why there wasn't a battle, but I still think they could have shown some battle in a flashback (maybe from the first one Toranaga lead when he was a kid). I think the promo stuff was pretending there'd be something like that, but it wasn't there and I think that's why a lot of people were a little disappointed with it's omission.
See now THIS guy you can mock for being a moron who just wants more samurai fights. This shit is not what I was missing and not why the show was bad.
To clarify, it WAS bad and unsatisfying, just not because of this
The fact that you can't say why even after 100 posts shows you're just baiting for (You)s.
I said it in the very first post. Episode one, and the last third of the last episode. If you can't piece it together that's your own fault, and seriously casts doubt on your true understanding of the show
>I said it in the very first post. Episode one, and the last third of the last episode.
Incredible. You repeated the same thing you said in that post: literally nothing. Maybe that's why Shogun frustrates you so much, it has substance and you do not.
They should have made the promotional material less suggestive of battles. People would go in not expecting it then.
I don't think it would have detracted from watching it if you knew, going in, that it was more of a character and political drama.
Not having a battle obviously fits the point of the story and how it progresses, but I still think seeing some sort of major battle (like in the flashback I mentioned) would be cool.
Why? Because samurai battles look cool. It could even have been something similar to the last alliance facing Sauron at the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring. Just short and impactful, showing the horrific shit no child should ever witness, but Toranaga saw during his first battle
I didn't even watch promotional material. Up until 2 days ago I thought it had Black folk so I avoided it. But I saw a picture of a Japanese girl with a cross necklace and decided to watch it. So I went in fresh with no expectations. And it was shit. No it wasn't shit. But it wasn't good. And the ending was shit
>ah ha it's because the girl died!
No I was hoping she would kill herself much earlier because the romance was annoying. It was too, soapy
Sounds like you get triggered by seeing couples in general.
Are you ACTUALLY trying to figure out what about it I don't like or are you just throwing everything at the wall? I said it was soapy. Do you understand what that means? It felt like I was watching daytime television romance drama for women at parts
What? I'm with you bro, I fricking hate women. Why do shows keep including them? I wish there was just nonstop homosexualry and buttblasting instead.
My initial reaction was I thought the ending was bad too, but I like it the more I think about it.
I still feel blue balled from not getting a battle, but I think it's because I'm kinda expecting something like that from a show of that caliber/type.
I like nothing about the ending
>I was behind everything all along and I DO want to be Shogun
Duh? Was I really not supposed to know that?
>Duh? Was I really not supposed to know that?
Not everyone read the book and watched the 1980 show. You're not clever for having done so.
I didn't do that and as I stated before, I didn't even watch promotional material
You're a fricking moron for thinking it was about samurai sword fights.
So I think I've narrowed it down. I was too smart so the show was pointless because it had no surprises, and the rest of you were so stupid that it blew your mind at the end with simple reveals
>I was too smart
Well it's definitely not that.
I suspect most people who criticize the show lost the plot when Mariko died.
The show does leave a lot of plot points hanging though. Like what happens to the heir and his mum? They betray ishido because ??? and then what does toranaga do with them once he becomes shogun?
The whole portugeuse sideplot and conflict between japs and christians ends up nowhere. Father whatshisname, despite constantly being hinted as a worm, actually does nothing bad the entire time.
I'm the guy who was too smart to enjoy this slop. She sides with shithead because big breasts died as a result of cuckolds bullshit. All calculated by shithead, which is why he sent big breasts over instead of waging all out war. Without her support and her sons army, it was an easy win
The show literally tells you what Toranaga will do as a Shogun (lead Japan into a prosperous time built on peace. Peace won by killing all his friends and family, but peace nonetheless)
>The whole portugeuse sideplot and conflict between japs and christians ends up nowhere.
Because the Toranaga/Tokugawa Shoganate doesn't expel them until a rebellion that happens after Toranaga/Tokugawa dies. Blackthorne may have made Toranaga more aware of them but at that point his priority was still unifying Japan.
They also kept making huge deals out of the Black Ship and the secret Catholic base in Macau, neither of which went anywhere
>Like what happens to the heir and his mum?
They eventually commit seppuku in Osaka castle.
>They betray ishido because ???
Because Ishido was too weak to win against Mariko, much less Toranaga.
>and then what does toranaga do with them once he becomes shogun?
He basically retires them, and eventually they revolt and he destroys their clan.
>The whole portugeuse sideplot and conflict between japs and christians ends up nowhere
That's a Europe problem.
feel like they really fumbled the anjin/mariko story line because they didn't want to engage in BWC/WMAF memes. so that entire huge part of the story doesn't even really make sense especially given how austere the actress playing mariko comes across. same reasoning seems to be at play with why they didn't waifu anjin up with kiku at the end. come to think of it that entire willow world story line didn't even really go anywhere.
it should've been 2 or even 3 seasons. they had to leave so much material out and compress so much.
a good effort but it ultimately falls flat for me.
Not developing the romance between Anjin San and Mariko makes her look like a bawd for fricking him the night of the ninja attack.
Not developing it how? That episode shows Anjin finally understands Mariko's purpose and respects it.
I remember being 14
I didn't ask
Where the flash forward scenes with blackwood necessary?
The show just ends and they never elaborate
>flash forward
0/10
>blackwood
My wife and I tried watching this but we end up having sex every time. This show makes us both horny.
>My wife
Embarassing larp. End yourself now
I've seen this exact picture already. stop embarrassing yourself
You saw it from moi.
I'm married, what's wrong with that?
But this isn't me
Kek
so was the women who slept with Anjin in the dark and we cant see her face was actually Mariko? (end of ep 4 I think), just because I thought it was out of character for it to be her I assumed it was a prostitute Mariko got him but idk, thoughts?
I thought it was her or Fuji or a prostitute but it's pretty obvious it was Mariko in hindsight
love from Kazakhstan
It was obviously Mariko and they were pretending it was a prostitute for the wife. But she knew too.
It was Mariko but Anjin was passed out drunk in a dark room so in the morning they told him it was a courtesan she and Fuji hired. She gets what she wanted and they have a cover which Anjin has no real reason to doubt.
He clearly remembers the night with her though and tries to talk about it with her which she shuts down.
This is all so obvious, I don't get how this is even a discussion.
Anon asked if it was Mariko that night, what's the confusion?
The serialized kino that filtered millions. I am now using Shogun as the definitive litmus test to detect moronic morons that will never have a worthwhile opinion on anything and shouldn't be taken seriously. Sorry fa/tv/irgins.
>I am now using Shogun as the definitive litmus test to detect moronic morons
This is very fair. The creators easily could have made this show far more moron-friendly (e.g. more focus on battles, more comic relief and gratutious torture from Yabu, sex scenes) without changing all that much, but they tastefully chose not to.
Great viewership numbers indicate that the middle of the bell curve is pleased with the show, and high IQ kino appreciators love it, so it's a fairer test than most.
Doesn't the name of the show kinda imply that Toranaga is the main character (or at least one of the main characters)? Why did he get so little screen time in the last 4-5 episodes? We don't even get to see him become Shogun. The show title is a lie.
Wrong answer.
normies will have finished this show not even knowing what a Shogun is. John, who is also supposed to be the main POV character is sidelined.
the showrunners made an intentional decision to make Mariko the focus and there just wasn't enough meat there to justify this which is why the show drags on.
>cool samurai battles, thrilling political intrigue, exploring the vast beauty of Japan? NO, didn't you stop to think about the feelings of the court translator!? That's the REAL story
people kept saying that Shogun was 10 episodes of edging but never cumming but it's worse than that, Shogun is being locked in the cuck shed unaware of what's even going on inside.
>John who lived to the end and shared the final scene with Toranaga is the sidelined character
>Mariko who died in service of Toranaga and doesn't even make it to the finale is the main POV character
Mmk.
>We don't even get to see him become Shogun.
But didn't we? We met on the battlefield of his fellow samurai and ended senseless bloodshed. He did that, along with everyone's help.
Mariko fooled me, I thought I was redpilled and there is no such thing pure, beautiful, angelic women but for a few moments I thought it was possible until it becomes clear she is just like the rest of them
t. Buntaro
it hurts
The great Cinemaphile filtering
Yea I'm kind of disappointed
I literally shouted KINO like an autist when Buntaro and Anjin finished pulling the ship up and rest while Toranaga just basks in his victory and the theme kicked in
It really does separate the Toranagas of this board from the Nikocados.
Torahhomies what?
No sekigahara.
>Asian men hate the show because a white guy fricks Asian women
>Catholics hate the show because John Blackthorne hates them
>Protestants hate the show because John didn't do a whole lot to defeat the Catholics
>Bookgays hate the show because it didn't copy the books 1:1
>Marvelgays hate the show because there is no soulless epic battle or orange slices
>Illiterates hate the show because they have to read subtitles
>Normies hate the show because because Japan is too weird for them
>Zoomers hate the show because it's longer than 5 seconds and thats too much time away from their phones
>Contrarians hate the show because it's good
>Boomers hate the show because a 1980 version exists and "Old Good, New Bad" is their slogan
>/got/ hates the show because the Regents didn't award the title of Shogun to the one with the best story
>Animegays hate the show because Toranaga doesn't have an episode long fight with Ishido that takes place mid-air with their katanas clashing a thousand times a second
>Lefties hate the show because a strong black woman doesn't become Shogun
>/misc/ hates the show because it didn't have John become Shogun while turning Japan into his personal harem
>Only the cultured few who wanted to see a story that remained authentic and true to the Japanese culture of the period enjoyed the show.
The filtering shall continue
Well said, anon.
Bookgay here. I barely remember the book, read it in 2003. Couldnt get past episode 7. Also, the battle of Sekigahara is basically the epilogue of the book and briefly described.
5/10 tv series. You could have told the same story with half the episodes. Editing is underrated.
>I'm not even hailing GoT as some masterpiece
Good, because you shouldn't. The Masterpiece designation belongs to SHOGUN.
Shogun is simply put too slow. If you cant tell a simple story in 5-6 episodes, then dont tell it. Look at Chernobyl or similar mini series. 6-8 is the sweet spot. When I found out that Shogun was 10 episodes, I was done at 7.
>I was filtered at seven
Fixed your typo. You're welcome.
Indeed I was. More time to rewatch real historical kino. FX is yet to produce a single noteworthy piece of media.
Your mom's sex tape?
Would probably be funnier than your joke.
Knowing your mom, probably.
Seven strains
And more impurities are removed.
Hate for Shogun's art,
Phones steal focus, souls depart,
Unmissed, they fade fast.
>Stream flows through rocks
>The sticks and twigs may not pass
>The water is pure
The second line should only have 7 syllables?
so... what happened during the night of John and Kiku together, made it seem like something else was going on except the obvious
They had sex.
It's left up to the viewer :^).
they probably didn't frick and anjinsama whined about how much he loved marikosama the whole night.
Why is Fuji prettier than Kiku in the show but Kiku prettier than Fuji in real life?
Im gonna say it: a show about samurai warlords where they carry swords around all damn day should have a couple big sword fights in it. That’s not a smooth brain opinion to want a show about samurai wars to feature at least one big samurai battle.
it's an autismo opinion
the whole point of the story was to achieve peace without unnecessary bloodshed and destruction, there where more than enough fight scenes in the show
Too bad that it's stupid fricking point. They should have made a mini-series about Gandhi if they had to go that route.
Was the BWC subplot even necessary
If ToraBlack person was so smart why was his son so dumb?
the same reason your dad worked, fricked bunch of women, eventually married your mom. then had you, a disappointment
He trained him wrong. As a joke.
>series/book ends with main character telling other character “this is what is going to happen, but we couldn’t be bothered to film/write it, so this is the ending lol”
Woah…
Sounds like you were SUBVERTED
>It's fricking dogshit
It's not shit but they did (predictably) frick it up badly.
Anyone know why /sho is no longer with us?
Because flowers are flowers because they fall.
I skipped the whole thing because it was obvious from the trailer alone that it was going to be 90% political slope. If there was going to be action the trailer would have shown so because that´s a high selling point.
See? Quality aside if there was going to be action the trailer would have shown it.
it was hubris to think you could tell shogun in only 10 hours without stripping off so much that all is left is a speedrun through the main plot device.
Sad that I missed all the kino threads to avoid spoilers
you can go to Archive and read them. ^0^
can relate but I think we will have more great threads for a while because this show is actually really good imo
its insanely boring and also pozzed as frick
showrunner said this
>“There’s a silhouette [on the cover of] this book,” Marks says. “And the silhouette is a guy who looks a lot like me wearing clothes that don’t belong to his culture, and it’s a problematic silhouette. I mean that on two levels. There’s the representational aspect, which is probably not for me to speak to. But I can speak to the creative aspect, which is, I’ve seen that story a billion times before, and I’m tired of that story as an audience member. So, if you’re going to get me to sign up for this show, what is this show going to have to do?
then his JAPANESE WIFE loved the story so he agreed to work on it but removed almost all of the WMAF romance so the story barely makes sense
>WMAF
Just have a nice day, incel homosexual
>calls shogun of all shows "pozzed"
ok you Black person worshipping burger dumbfrick.
What's with the white fog?
it's brightened. the original show is dark as frick
>it's brightened. the original show is dark as frick
So you are telling me they have no battle sequence, and the remaining portion of the slop is shot in the dark?
is the Mariko actress natty or bogged? unironically one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen, didn't have a celebrity crash for years, kinda hurts
>no samurai fights
Episode 9 you watchless peasant
The first two episodes were terrific. Then the show descends into female melodrama. I didnt like any of the main characters, all fricking annoying. Ishido was a moron, Toronaga an unsympathetic butthole, Mariko a depressed wreck that is always whining about killing herself, Blackthorne a useless bum... Ironically it was the side characters like Yabushige, Buntaro and the Portuguese priest that I enjoyed the most
it's interesting how most of the likeable and unlikeable characters during the first half/most of the series switched places in the end
Ms. Sawai has a truly dishonorable back-etching. She brings shame to her family.
>what I thought I was getting
>shogun: total war 2
>what I actually got
???
What's a good game to describe this letdown?
No Man's Sky, the first 4 hours of the game trick you into thinking it's good (just like the show) then it never really goes anywhere and you start doing the same thing over and over again.
>The scenes where Blackthorn is an old guy back in Europe and his grandkids call the Japanese "savages"
Was it a flash-forward, or Blackthorns dream?
His imagination. It was very clunky and confusing
I didn’t really think the white women getting jealous and insecure of Asian chicks meme but I went today to a Chinese restaurant and had a blast
What happened?
brutal
whites mogged by Yellos
lmao at all the weebcucks in here coping by saying the show is about "characters" and "political intrigue" that Westerners wouldn't understand, LMAO. lol.
Characters?? Mariko is the only one with a half-decent story arc and that ends up just being "you can finally have a nice day, brave woman martyr!" but her death accomplishes nothing anyway.
Political Intrigue? LOL. Do any of the characters actually do anything besides Toranaga? The big bad council just sits cross-legged and complains about shit, and Le epic rousemaster Toranaga just keeps lying to his followers because everyone is out to get him and no one can be trusted!. Wow. Now that's what I call a political thriller!
Zero redeeming characters, I didn't give a frick about anyone because all their stories were undercooked, the show continuously alluded to things and then would le heckin subvert expectations by completely disregarding them in the next episode.
Episodes 3 to 9 were essentially:
>Person A brings up their worries to Toranaga.
>Toranaga glares at them, and then grunts and scoffs.
>Person A gets mildly confused/annoyed.
>Toranaga refuses their pleas and says his word is final!
>Person A leaves
>Person B brings up their worries to Toranaga.
>Repeat
Almost no character was even relevant to the plot, they were all just orbiting around Toranaga waiting for him to do something.
Oh wait, now I get it... It's the exact same formula as an Issekai anime. holy frick lmao. No wonder Cinemaphile simps for this shit.
Still a 6/10 show though.
You type like such a homosexual holy shit
the problem is it stinks
>show builds towards a massive battle
>people call you stupid for expecting said massive battle
>>show builds towards a massive battle
Based moron
How does it not?
Crimson Sky already happened.
I think you're the moron, the characters mention storming/attacking Osaka multiple times, the show was bad get over it.
>"something will happen!"
>erm ackshually it was a red herring and misdirection and and and
>>erm ackshually it was a red herring and misdirection
Literally what happened in the show.
>I don't like it because it wasn't what I expected and and and
lmao get rekt
>Literally what happened in the show.
You stupid Black person, the rule of cool will always prevail. Who the frick wants to see John Wick talking to crime bosses for 3 hours about his dead dog? Absolutely fricking nobody.
Your time-wasting moronic show will be forgotten and never mentioned again.
>the rule of cool will always prevail
This. I kept waiting for Captain Marvel to show up and vaporize Ishido's castle and it never happened. 0/10, will never doubt Feige again.
Resorting to Marvel strawmen, the ultimate sign of desperation and defeat
Anyone who unironically uses the term "rule of cool" is a Marvel goyslopper, this is a fact.
So true, where was Iron Man with the infinity stones when you needed him?
>character is outright stated to be seen as a scheming trickster
>hurr why didn't he do the moronic zerg rush plan like he said
Look at this moron, what a fricking Ishido.
Has a series ever mindbroken Cinemaphile this much? I knew it was kino when people barged into the generals saying they didn't understand the Blackthorne dream.
That was the fault of the moronic show, not the audience
No, it wasn't. The camera focused on the rosary several times in the dream and then the second to last scene was all about him letting it go. I hate using this word but this series was the ultimate filter. I'm glad I got to experience the midwits who were unable to understand what was happening in the last three episodes.
>wow you can't understand incomprehensible emptiness?
>heh, you just got filtered bud!
All my friends in real life understood the dream, and some of them are moronic. Only on this board did I find anyone who actually didn't understand what the dream represented and got asshurt when called out on not understanding basic storytelling.
And how moronic are you for getting baited so easily?
You're wasting your time. Rather than go back and watch what he clearly missed, he'd rather cry about it here and blame the show.
But yeah it filters so fricking hard. I've never felt so superior to so many capeshit goysloppers. It's exhilarating, the closest one can get to heaven.
The show is just like all Japanese anime and manga, blueballing and padding.
I watched the first two episodes and found myself falling asleep (quite literally). I didn't actively dislike it, I just didn't find it engaging
So this is gonna be like Lost where the ending was shit and most people say it's shit but then the fans say "You just didn't get it!" ?
There's nothing to "get" about the ending. Morons for some reason expected a big battle between good samurai and bad samurai, when the entire point was to avoid bloodshed.
>the entire point was to avoid bloodshed
Yeah, tell that to all the people he sent to be slaughtered. Nothing like avoiding bloodshed than decapitating your citizens and sticking their heads on poles!
They were spikes, not poles. You weren't even paying attention. Also he killed dozens to save millions. You would've sacrificed millions and also lost.
>resorting to correcting the tiniest of details
Lmao
>to save millions
How? Japan wasn't even at war, and the council was getting along just fine. Toranaga started the conflict because he sperged out after getting kicked out
>and the council was getting along just fine
alright you are just moronic
How was it not?
see
Ishido was a peasant who couldn't even outmaneuver Toranaga. How could he be trusted to protect Japan or maintain its peace?
Wasn't the previous big shot that died and everyone worshipped also a peasant aka hideyoshi?
Yeah and that's why he dies without having established a lasting central government. Toranaga/Tokugawa Shogunate ends up lasting well over two centuries after his death.
>and the council was getting along just fine
The Christians were just waiting to backstab Ishido for their Portuguese masters and Ishido always intended to dominate the council in the same way Toranaga was trying to, that's why he detained them and tried to marry Ochiba.
You're right, these little personal dramas within the council totally would have resulted in millions of innocent deaths
One group is trying to get Japan conquered by the Portuguese, the other is trying to rise above his station to become a peasant ruler in the same way the Taiko did, pissing off the Christians in the process. Either result would have led to thousands and thousands of deaths.
FUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOOU
Yes, a few people died so the country wouldn't be torn apart by war killing countless more, how did you miss that?
>One moron, one old man, one woman and a few villagers assuming those heads weren't just people who died of natural causes as part of Toranaga's test of Blackthorne
vs
>Hundreds of thousands of people in yet another sengoku jidai
Also, yeah, the character still has a fair amount of moral ambiguity to him. The show didn't make that clear?
Lost was literally JJ Abrams' mystery box that eventually ran out of steam after x seasons, same with BSG. Every scene in Shogun was filmed with purpose and the ending is flawless. It's only when you point out all the broadcasted elements that made it clear where the story was going that goyslurpers lose their shit and get irrationally angry that they missed it and so redirect it to the show instead of accepting that they're NPCs.
I hate shows where one character is in complete control, thinks 25 steps ahead of everyone else, and successfully manipulates everything and everyone to their will. It's such a fricking stupid trope
Name other shows with this trope.
Breaking Bad. Lost. That's two off the top of my head. I'm sure there's plenty more
Who was 25 steps ahead in Breaking Bad and Lost? Also Breaking Bad is great so you're already losing 50% of your own argument.
Walt/Gus and Jacob
Wrong, it was purgatory. There was no grand plan.