It's weird how Kyle Rayner's been sidelined. He used to be a key fixture of DC, and now he's basically nonexistent.
 UFOs Are A Psyop Shirt $21.68 |
 DMT Has Friends For Me Shirt $21.68 |
UFOs Are A Psyop Shirt $21.68 |
It's weird how Kyle Rayner's been sidelined.
>"Kyle Rayner? Sorry, I need a black guy to have sex with Hawkman's waifu."
This is pretty much the reason why they sideline plus the post-Johns writers never understanding the characters.
How is he the problem?
Timm wanted representation in his cartoon so he opted for John Stewart over Kyle.
So?
So? It's the reason why everyone takes a backseat to John Stewart.
A single cartoon did that? Or maybe that's a DC problem. There's nothing stopping DC from using Kyle.
>There's nothing stopping DC from using Kyle.
Except you know, being DC. They don't like taking risks.
Your paranoia is blinding your judgment. Kyle continued to be more relevant than John for years during and after the cartoon. Also I really doubt that using John was Timm's decision alone, it's always a given that American shows with large casts are required to have at least one black character.
>Kyle continued to be more relevant than John for years during and after the cartoon.
He hasn't been relevant in a near decade anon. The moment Geoff left, they stripped him of his White Lantern status, downgraded him back to GLC and then took his GF away. Meanwhile John gets a movie and pushed heavily in two different runs.
Bro most people don't even know Kyle exists.
They know the "white guy from the movie that sucked ass", "the black one from the cartoon", maybe "the one with the cape", and Killowog.
Kyle was still the only GL in the comics when Justice League aired and then John became the posterboy because HE WAS IN THE CARTOON.
I thought it had more to do with the show coming out during the height of the Kyle/Hal rivalry and Timm picked the most neutral answer ever.
No, they admitted they added Hawkgirl and John because the cast was too cast and sausage fest-y.
Though they chose Hawkgirl specifically as opposed to any other female character like Zatanna because Timm really liked Ellis' Authority, which had Swift.
*too white
Hawkman being one of the original JLA members also helped that decision. Adding Hawkgirls works to get that classic member and another girl on the team.
Green Lantern was another issue in 2002 since Hal was dead, Kyle was overhated by half the fandom, the Superman TAS series Hal/Kyle mix character did not work and everyone hated him, and John also worked to add a black guy to the team. There was no good decision to make back then because picking either Hal or Kyle would bring in insane autistic GL fandom hatred to the show. It was pretty intense at the time.
The general public didn't fricking know who Hal was that when the Green Lantern movie was revealed normies were crying racism over John being turned into a white man.
The general public doesn’t even know who John Stewart is anon. You can sight the JLU but Hal has his movies, plus the GL cartoon show and appearing as the main GL in injustice.
kek probably cuck self insert like rick and morty creator
TNBA was all of his fault.
Batman TAS was great and the moment Dini took the reins from him, Batman Beyond honored TAS and became a solid hit.
Middle aged lunatic losers wanted their failing anachronistic ripoff of the lensman back.
It was actually because they needed a black guy and they didn't want to piss off the potentislly murderous HEATgays.
It worked out great. He ended up being the face of GL in the mainstream. Much to the chagrine of the halgays.
We get it, you don’t like GL but love cuckoldry.
He was a mistake. Never should have been created to begin with.
Over a cartoon? Chill out.
You weren't there when it happened. You don't know what you're talking about.
....like almost every 90s era character?
DC decided that only characters that were invented in the 60s matter, everyone else can frick off.
Kyle got plenty of pushes over the years. None of it worked because Hal was back. That's just how it is.
The only GL that matters is Hal
>No GL matters
FTFY
holy based
If it aint Hal, he's not my pal
many such cases
I miss him too, he was great in green lantern corps
No shit, Kyle is bland as frick and has no reason to be pushed to the forefront.
John is protected due to being the token black guy and the token straight man. Hal is protected due to Johns and being the main GL during GL's best years (70s-80s and 00s). Jessica is protected due to being the token female, being genuinely popular, and actually having a personality/struggle. Guy has an actual personality to keep him afloat in the background or in relation to other characters.
Kyle has... what, anime constructs? Being a self insert? Continuously aving female characters be written like shit to make readers feel bad for him?
Kyle worked for a short while because DC had to destroy every other active Green Lantern (down to making Alan not named GL and taking Jade's in born powers away from her). Once they started bringing all of them back Kyle just wasn't interesting enough on his own to survive.
Kylegays should just be thankful Simon was created so Kyle is only just the second most useless GL.
>Kyle is bland as frick and has no reason to be pushed to the forefront.
This, but with John .
But that's John's appeal. He's the boring straight man that works well with Hal or Guy. Kyle is the everyman character that can't be a sidekick. He has to be the main character.
>But that's John's appeal.
It’s why he’s nobody’s favorite GL.
>but muh JLU
Those people don’t read comics, let alone like them. They like him because he was a character in a show they watched as kids.
Being the straight man is a thankless job but it allows him to work with nearly everyone. The show worked out for him because of that. Everyone else had a lot of personality and he was the person aside from Batman that kept others in check. That's why he had great chemistry with Flash and Hawkgirl.
>That's why he had great chemistry with Flash
That’s because he was the butt of the joke.
>and Hawkgirl.
Their romance was forced.
That's the problem with all of the post-crisis replacement characters.
Kyle, Connor, Tim, even Wally, they were all written explicitly as "better" than their predecessors. They can't take a side role or share the spotlight.
I guess it worked at the time because Hal was considered boring so he was killed off and replaced with a hip new young guy that was the chosen one and has problems just like me! But then Johns brings him back and makes him a reckless liability that somehow makes his dumb plans work. Rule of cool really benefited him. And doing cool stuff was supposed to be the advantage Kyle had over Hal.
Kyle's whole thing was not being your grandpa's GL and making quirky constrots beyond boxing gloves like an-o-me Gundams. Then he became remembered for the fridge.
Dick, Kyle, and Wally in the 90s had a very similar overarching idea that they had to grow up and (in Dick's case) be his own man and (in the latter two), prove they were equal to or surpassing the previous mantle holder. Wally ended up doing it just fine (so fine in fact he survived a reboot despite Didio resisting). But Dick eventually failed because when he got his solo it ultimately became a Batman spinoff and got yanked around according to Batman's stories. And Kyle eventually failed because his stories simply weren't as good as Wally's and Kyle.. just kinda never grew up? I'm not saying you gotta have a spouse, two kids, a white picket fence to be a full fledged adult, but you can read one issue of Baron or early WML and see that that Wally is just a more immature version of later WML/Waid/Johns/Adams. Early Marz, late Marz, Winick, Rabb, Tomasi GLC, and Hal and Pals just reads like the same character. They tried giving him a new struggle in having too much power in Ion so make him grow that way, but as a character Kyle just felt the same.
The only time Kyle ever got some solid character growth was in Omega Men, which Cinemaphile irrationally hates because CIA MAN BAD.
Nightwing was always going to be a Batman spinoff. Flash worked because Barry was dead and stayed dead. If Nightwing was about Dick taking Batman's place and making Gotham his town and taking over all the classic villains while Batman is dead/hurt/missing? Of course it would have sold. We saw that with Batman Reborn.
>The only time Kyle ever got some solid character growth was in Omega Men
What character growth?
Omega Men was good in spite of Kyle. He was pretty bad in that series.
I feel like Kyle was fine in that series. I really don't think Kyle had much of a character after Marz run. He was kind of bland and King at least gave him some depth again.
>We saw that with Batman Reborn
Well Batman and Detective Comics weren't selling very well at that time. Batman & Robin did because of Morrison. So you're wrong, Dick failed.
That's... not true?
Batman sold well both under Winick and Daniel, despite the books being shit. It was a top 5 book for DC, under GL, GLC, Batman & Robin, and whatever events or big #1s they had running each month.
You can literally look up the sales figures on ComiChron.
I always thought DC fricked up by not making Dick into Batman after Knightfall. Why they invented Azrael Bats I have no idea, when there is another guy next in line right there.
Wally worked well because he was always around and he just stepped right into the role easily and organically.
Kyle had loads of issues, starting with DC burning down the entire GL house and starting completely over with all new characters, all new side cast, all new villains, everything changed. And then Marz decided to write Kyle as the greenhorn pathetic loser that sucks at his job...for the entire run and not just in the first year or two. That shit continued for 7 years, until a new writer took over. It's kind of hard for me to like a character when the series itself shits on him and constantly tells me, the reader, that he sucks and I shouldn't like him.
Apparently Azrael was always meant to fail and be a criticism of extreme heroes that were popular at the time. Bruce was always meant to come back and look good in comparison.
Only morons don't realize this anon. Most likely because they never read Knightfall.
>Apparently Azrael was always meant to fail and be a criticism of extreme heroes that were popular at the time. Bruce was always meant to come back and look good in comparison.
This is why I’m so glad that Batman/Spawn crossover did so well. Frick Denny O’Neil
>And then Marz decided to write Kyle as the greenhorn pathetic loser that sucks at his job...for the entire run and not just in the first year or two. That shit continued for 7 years, until a new writer took over. It's kind of hard for me to like a character when the series itself shits on him and constantly tells me, the reader, that he sucks and I shouldn't like him.
Fricking this, this is the one thing I could not get over was how Ron Marz really wanted his Spider-Man copy without actually putting in any of the work that made Spider-Man still likable despite all the flaws and problems he had making his life harder. Kyle was nothing but flaws and people mocking him and hating him. He had to have the shitty life struggling to make ends meet, he was the unsure of himself new to heroing guy for most of a decade, he had no actual friends and was looked down on by the entire hero community, had nothing but bad press, and every side character of his was killed by a villain at some point. And that shit did go on for years until Winnick took over the book. Then all of a sudden other JLA members were allowed to like him and get along with him.
Such is the fate of most editorially-mandated poochies when they fail to achieve the desired numbers. The fact that he turns up at all is pretty much entirely due to Johns liking him.
It’s funny because early Infinite Frontier seems like 90s-early 00s nostalgia was finally in vogue (Connor Hawke coming back, TT Nightwing aping Dixon and his Dixon rogues popping up in various places, JSA getting attention again, Wally becoming the main Flash again, Azrael getting a mini for the first time since late 00s (and JPV’s first book since Dixon era), but instead of making Kyle main lantern like the 90s comics they made John main lantern like the DCAU lol.
>singlehandedly brings your character out of irrelevancy
You’re welcome, capeshitters
The frick Kyle owned the 90's, John was a lolDarkstar then a cripple, and Guy was a Yellow Lantern then an alien abomination.
Then Kyle became the strongest GL twice early and mid 00's.
We're just never going to have 3-4 Lantern books again like we used to. Much as I like John only reason I see him having a run along Hal is cause of the potential HBO show coming out starring the two of them.
No he wasn't. He was always a B- tier player.
Because Kyle's thing is being the torchbearer. He works best on Earth if there's no Lanterns but him, or if he's rebuilding the Corp. Which was what he was when he had his introduction and ongoing.
Corps comes back, and he's not needed when you have the "real" GLs in Hal, Guy, John. So post-Corps revival, Kyle works the best IN the Corps, in space. He's the torchbearer, respected by the Corps even when they'll hate and shit on the Earth GLs. And thats what Johns did with him after Rebirth, which was the best Kyle has been since his ongoing.
But you know how comics are. If its not happening on Earth, book isn't going to last. So Kyle gets tossed out.
Does DC not have control over the book stories and characters? Why is everything so inconsistent?
>Kyle Rayner
Goodbye worst lantern.
My GLs are Jessica Cruz and Jo Mullein.
Coom worthy!
Jo needs her cheeks clapped
So does Jessica!
Who has Jessica canonically fricked?
Nobody so Jess is still a virgin.
Carol won, Hal lost.
I don't get why people still read capeshit.
Geoff’s GL is what made me give comics another chance.
But It's been years already. Why are you still here?
At one point I wanted Kyle to show up in Young Justice until I saw the last season of Young Justice.
Tom King should write Batman again.
Yeah, it's weird how he got the Green Lantern ring from Abin Sur in that one STAS episode, then replaced by John Stewart and his name only mentioned once.
I understand it's because John existed in the comics two decades before Kyle. Still weird that they only used the new guy in one episode of the more important medium.