I still can't believe that writers kept trying to turn Deathstroke into a morally grey anti-hero when he's clearly a groomer and a villain while Terra got the pure evil bawd reputation.
ITT: Actual groomers
I still can't believe that writers kept trying to turn Deathstroke into a morally grey anti-hero when he's clearly a groomer and a villain while Terra got the pure evil bawd reputation.
would
Based
Deathstroke is pure unadulterated kino and Terra wanted him
Call me a pedo. But to be honest, Terra is hot as hell, I'd frick her.
man.. you can't say shit like that
Dude. She is 15
My great-grandparents were 17 and 15 when they were married and expected to run a farm.
Stop projecting Western adultbaby insecurities, you infertile old hag.
17 and 15 is fine. 50+ and 15 is not.
Legal in Germany Which granted isn't where I live but still
Legal in some US states. 16 is the age in most states. Used to be 14 in some states as recent as 1994. Hags and roasties will do everything in their power to make it illegal to frick any one under 35.
Yeah I know anon, How come the US has the age of consent laws be a state thing rather than a national law?
And why is the Pedo capital of north america, California one of the states with the higher ages?
>How come the US has the age of consent laws be a state thin
Because state law will always supersede federal.
>And why is the Pedo capital of north america, California one of the states with the higher ages?
Just to further rub it in your face
You should be allowed to frick them if you're getting married.
out of 10!
The age of consent in Europe is 14-16. She's legal in most countries.
Sauce on pic?
Reminder that Germany is the Alabama of Europe.
Yeah you really shouldn't because comic book Tara was fricking ugly.
>pig nose
Gross
You virgins talk as if teens (>12) don't have sex all the time. Just because it didn't happen to means no one wanted to have sex with you.
Infantilization is popular now. People im their mid 20s still say they've been groomed because they don't want to take responsibility for their actions.
>teenagers are exploring with their bodies and having sex for their first times
>therefore it's ok for a 30-something to frick someone who's literally finding out about their sexuality
Teenagers should frick teenagers, Adults should frick adults, if you think it's ok for an adult to frick a teenager just because teenagers are having sex, then you're moronic, it's simple
That doesn’t make you a pedo.
Pedos like kids not teenagers. Mother frickers will demand a 16 year old stand trial as an adult and then act like they’re too young and innocent when it comes to sex
pedo
How old was she?
John Byrne has a serious age gap fetish and it concerns me.
kira yoshikage lookin ass homie
>Yoshikage Kira just wants a peaceful life and some dicky
It's not really grooming since it's more of a power fantasy of having a younger girl lusting over you, which you initially reject until you give in because she keeps insisting thus making it "OK." Still a groomer's fantasy as seen here
.
"The younger girl is the one pushing for it, so it's OK" seems to be a recurring trend with these.
Because it's true.
I know that Ollie doesn't have the best track record with women, but has he ever tried to sleep with underage girls?
No, but he is the type to get in a drunken argument with Carter, Barry or one of the more conservative leaguers over age of consent.
Ollie seems to prefer the age gap in the other direction. When he originally hooked up with Black Canary, she was a multiversal immigrant from Earth-Two and a World War II era character.
That was such a fun series of books. Shame the overarching plot with the probability gun was so damn stupid.
If the girl is pushing it, she gave consent. Legal AOC consent is a meme.
How old was Reed?
He's a "college freshman" which for a normal guy would mean 18-19. But Reed was super gifted and a huge nerd, so he presumably graduated High School early and so maybe 16 is reasonable. A 4 year age gap is creepy when it's 12-16, but give it another 4 years and 16-20 is perfectly fine.
Do we know if Sue wasn't doing the whole puppy love thing? I've seen that growing up with a boatload of sisters. They get attached to a guy, think he's "the best", then lose interest.
Honestly I don't think Reed's even capable of grooming.
If anything Sue groom Reed.
That power dynamic violates Western caste structures
Didn't he state that she approached him though?
She's manipulative enough to use a little something extra as a selling point and he's ruthless enough to not care.
It's hard to tell with him. Four or five examples only 3ood which people keep harping on out of a 40+ year career is a wide enough spread to suggest a false pattern, esp. when one is a canon age-gap of long standing and another seems calculated to deliberately squick.
It could as easily be he just found the dynamic interesting to work with after FF.
(of the four I know of for certain, Heather and James Hudson is the only one I never see mentioned)
If Slade is ruthless not to care about Tara being underage then doesn't it stand to reason he would be ruthless enough to be lying about That?
Heather and James Hudson aren't brought up as much due to the fact that they're far more obscure characters. But they're his own creations, so the fact that he actively chose to make it an age gap romance for no reason is all on him, unlike the Sue/Reed thing where he can claim to only be following Stan Lee's poorly thought out backstory.
>I could probably be arrested just for having you in my apartment with the door closed
The fact that Byrne is aware of how creepy and illegal this looks but does it anyway only makes it worse.
There again though, chicken or egg? He spent like a decade working on a title where that had been a running theme since day one starting in a time when "puppy love" was still a popular cliche'.
And May-December romances, I should add.
Ok, it's a little weird to frame it like this I guess, but he's only 5 or six years older than her.
Byrne is just sick on the head
He did the same with superman and doom patrol
I'm pretty sure Byrne actually decreased the age gap or at least cemented it at the lower end. Reed and Ben were WWII vets which would make Reed like 34 at the absolute youngest in FF#1, and Sue was in her early 20s iirc
I don't think a 12 years normally looks that young or a college freshman looks that old. Also, Reed would probably be 16 starting university as a prodigy and he looks more like 28 here.
Stop giving Byrne shit for this. This follows the ages already established for them before.
Explain this then
Or this
This would make Sue about 6 years younger than Reed.
Big deal. My girlfriend is 10 years younger than I am.
I happen to be 61 years old. Doesn't exactly seem like I'm robbing the cradle.
Six year gap is not that bad.
Deathstroke shouldn't be an antihero. But Terra is an evil bawd, everyone simping for her needs to be silenced.
Tara is only labeled as an evil bawd but all her evil loose actions can be traced directly to the fact that she was being groomed by Slade.
Stop making excuses and just let a villain be a villain. She doesn't need a redemption arc and she doesn't need you pretending everything she did was all a man's fault.
This it’s ironic that by removing her agency these people turn her into a pathetic shel of a character.
Ok then what evil deed did Tara actually do under her own agency?
And I mean zero slade involvement when I say that.
>And I mean zero slade involvement when I say that.
Not worth discussing it with you because you’re already blaming it all on slade and thus doing exactly what I said.
She used him as much as he used her. They were both a means to an end. She was his Judas goat as much as he used her as one. He made a contract with Judas, that’s the fricking point.
Pretty sure she was a hitwoman before she meet Slade
>Pretty sure she was a hitwoman before she meet Slade
You know who said that? Slade.
Everything she did was because of Slade.
Like literally.
>the simp is literally never going to stop until he gets his Terra redemption arc and she becomes Beast Boy's girlfriend just like this guy wanted to see happen when he was a kid
It's because of morons like you Marvel just did a moronicly hamfisted Goblin Queen redemption arc because you just can't leave things alone, and can't let women be villains if you're horny for them.
Terra is a villain who betrays the Titans. That's the point of the character. It's time you accepted that.
>Terra is a villain who betrays the Titans. That's the point of the character.
Because of Slade.
What do you hope to gain from defending a fictional character?
I'm not defending a fictional character anon, I'm pointing out bad writing.
Tara isn't culpable for her actions because she's an emotionally distrubed child being groomed by a 56 year old narcissistic sociopath. Tara is objectively the lesser of two evils and should be treated as such in the narrative.
Okay… but why do you start these threads here? Wolfman is retired, he’s not here Anon. You’re just arguing with nobodies on a forum where maybe 6 people have actually read Judas Contract.
I’ve seen these exact threads multiple times, never interacted before… was just curious because you seem very passionate in this endeavor.
>Okay… but why do you start these threads here?
Well first of all anon I am not OP but even if I was this is a fricking comics and cartoon imageboard.
>You’re just arguing with nobodies on a forum where maybe 6 people have actually read Judas Contract.
Same could be said for you bud.
Ah… well if you aren’t OP then I have little interest in engaging with you. I’m more interested in the motives of the OP as I’ve seen this thread a dozen times on here and their crusade has piqued my interest. Your motives aren’t of interest, thanks though.
Regarding your second point; I’m not arguing with anons about the morality of comic books, so… no we’re not really similar. Wasn’t even intending to argue at all really… just curiosity. I’m more interested in the motives behind these threads, not the fictional characters and their sex lives.
>well if you aren’t OP then I have little interest in engaging with you
Ok but that's a cop out.
>Regarding your second point; I’m not arguing with anons about the morality of comic books,
Yeah you were.
To be fair, based on everything we've seen from Slade in comics, anything he says should be taken with a grain of salt.
That being said, a comic with Terra as the MC would be interesting.
DC seems intent on not using her in situations where she should be involved. On the other hand, those stories( Dark Crisis and Shadow War) were awful, so it might be a blessing in disguise.
This is the real issue.
I suspect Slade was Wolfman's real self insert, Terry was the decoy.
Difference between Maddie and Terra is that Maddie was turned evil purely because buttholes were pissed the frick off that fans rightfully saw Scott as a monster for leaving her and their baby to frick Jean and they scorched earth and literally invalidated Maddie's very existence to prop up Scott and Jean being justified in what they did to her.
Terra meanwhile was NEVER meant to be sympathetic and was ALWAYS supposed to be a lying evil sociopathic c**t.
If she was always meant to be irredeemably then why did DC let Mike W. Barr wrote her as just as a confuse messed up teen?
>if one writer planned a specific thing, why did editorial allow another writer to do something completely contradictory to that plan
Welcome to Big 2 comics, anon. Hope you survive the experience.
Fine but now you got a decision to make: is Wolfman right or is Barr?
In any circumstances like that, the correct choice is that the character's main writer at is correct, and some side story by another writer can be more easily disregarded if it doesn't fit.
The lines may get more blurred when you start dealing with characters who've been around for decades, through a lot of different writers, and appearing in multiple ongoing books at the same time, but if a character had a short lifespan and only a few people wrote them, the main writer, the one who created the character should be considered the one with the 'correct' take. If Wolfman says Terra is an irredeemable evil bawd, she's an irredeemable evil bawd, and Barr didn't get the memo.
>the correct choice is that the character's main writer at is correct, and some side story by another writer can be more easily disregarded if it doesn't fit.
No it's about what makes more sense.
What makes more sense here, that Tara was irredeemably evil or that she was a messed up kid manipulated by a sociopathic killer?
The fans shouldn't be more invested in an NPC than in the actual protagonists of a book in the first place, especially not so much as to still be salty about it over 30 years later. But the point here isn't how she became a villain, it's that by the time of the Dark Web story in 2022 Maddie was way too far gone as a villain for a redemption arc, especially not one as quick and easy as that. The entire Dark Web event was 100% her fault, and she gets away with it all, while poor Ben Reilly was her stooge and takes the fall for everything.
This is true. Byrne specifically wrote Terra as she is in her titans story because he wanted her to be the “anti Kitty Pryde”. Where she’s just plain evil and a bawd and smokes and has buck teeth etc etc
They're all pedos.
Terra is only interesting because of the Judas Contract, so she will be defined solely by her actions in the Judas Contract.
Slade is cool, so he gets more comics, so he gets expanded upon, and becomes more than just "that evil pedo from the Judas Contract".
Villains do get turtned into anti-heroes a lot, though. And anti-heroes get more hero-like (take Deadpool 2 for example).
>Terra is only interesting because of the Judas Contract
The exact opposite is true actually.
She got away with it because she's black.
I find it funny that he is still viewed as cool for while Hank is a total monster for letting his wife run into his hand during a skitzo episode.
grooming > mental health
Slade is just so based and the Judas Contract was that kino that even normalgays overlook the fact that he groomed Terra and pumped her
Well no that would’ve been the case were the artist not stupid. Instead we got the full back hand.
Does pic related count?
This was quietly dropped pretty quickly.
My brother forgot about Onslaught
Was he planning to leave his wheelchair anytime soon ?
Didn't they try to retcon this by making Slade going "no way gay" in a flashback in this Teen Titans Dark comic or whatever the name was.
Or did he still shag the vag?
>ctrl f
>no Skip
What the actual frick. This can't be real.
It is. Peter canonically got groomed and molested as a child.
its real, originally it was supposed to be uncle ben doing the molesting
Post your face when Skip returns in ASM.
The actual arc wasn't nearly as weird as the attempts to rehabilitate Slade afterwards.
He is a bad man who did a bad thing, he got some pussy while harming his enemies.
Mid-teens is the ideal age for a girl to fall in love with you and when we men are at that age we're typically pretty ignorant (especially us nerd types) so it's perfectly rational to go for a redo. You can be evil about it like Slade or good about it like Reed but either way it's perfectly natural.
Achtually anything below 21 is pretty creepy and you should only be dating 25 and older.
The only way to have the pure love of a woman is to get to her while her synapses (or whatever brain science you're IFLing) are still forming - and before she's already "imprinted" (by your standards) on someone else.
I disagree. 25 you're still a young person, unable to take serious serious decisions about your life like dating someone and having sex. This is pure rape at this rate. You shouldn't date anyone under 41 years.
Roast beef slurred these words
SHE WAS 23 YEARS 11 MONTHS 364 DAYS 59 MINUTES AND 59 MILLISECONDS OLD YOU SICK FRICK
>Going back in time to molest your crush when he's a child because he keeps rejecting your advances as an adult
What the frick is wrong with Lois Lane?
Superman's greatest foe: Thirsty groomers.
>super-TOT
What did they mean by this?
She meant to say Super ToT
Holy frick, I never spotted that, and I read it many times!
Hebephile is perfectly normal unlike pedophile though
In Transformers: Age of Extinction, the older boyfriend of Matt Walberg's underage daughter actually goes around with a card with the state's age of consent laws written on it to justify why even though he's a creepy groomer he's technically not a criminal.
I read that law and it only works if they went out prior to one of them being overaged, Meaning they must have been going out for years and somehow Mark's character didn't know about it or they are just fricking lying.
Why the FRICK did this take up screentime?
Because Michael Bay had done way too much research on each state's age of consent laws because...reasons, and thought it would be funny to flex that knowledge instead of just having Walberg's daughter be 18.
It's probably there for plot-related reasons as an excuse for Wahlberg's character to be mad at the guy to begin with, and they underestimated how it would play with audiences. IIRC the idea was that they'd been dating for years since they were both at high school.
Don't forget that the Bumblebee movie, produced by Michael Bay literally includes the line "I'm 18... today, actually."
>Nooooo you can't just follow the law, that's illegal
that law doesn't protect any sexual activity. so that guy admitted to being a sex offender when he said he likes to make out with mark wahlberg's daughter
Yeah but he's a good boy with a solid future ahead of him so I don't see the need to uphold the letter of the law here.
If you ever show me this card in regard to my daughter, if you even have this on your person. I am legally obliged to blow your ass to smithereens.
I don’t like that DC tried to rehabilitate Slade. I’m glad it failed years ago, and that he’s been a villain again.
I also don’t like the idea of rehabilitating Terra though. Once a villain, always a villain. No redemption.
>I don’t like that DC tried to rehabilitate Slade. I’m glad it failed years ago,
It didn't fail at all though, Spade went the entire 90s as an anti-hero and when writers like Brad Meltzer and Geoff Johns pointed out that Slade isn't some noble warrior too worldly to be judged for his crimes by some punk teens that people just accused them of being grimdark edgelords ruining DC.
Is Slade a villain in comics currently?
Yes, so ultimately the efforts expended redeeming him have failed. Slade has not been rehabilitated.
>Is Slade a villain in comics currently?
No.
Refresh my memory… who was general of the army of evil in Dark Crisis? Who was the champion of the Great Darkness? Who continued to fight the heroes even after the Great Darkness was defeated? Who fought Nightwing in the climatic battle to decide the fate of the DC universe?
>Refresh my memory… who was general of the army of evil in Dark Crisis?
Refresh my memory, did anyone talk about the fact that his greatest achievement was grooming an underage girl? No? Then you're missing the entire point of conversation here. Slade being a bad guy doesn't stop the fact that DC wants him to be a marketable badass which is hard when you're objectively a pedo groomer.
>15
>pedo
Well you're assuming that Slade only started grooming her at 15.
Because that's all the information we have. I'm not making baseless accusations that aren't brought up in any comic at all. Why are you assuming Terra isn't just an evil b***h
>Because that's all the information we have.
It is actually and something we can actually logical deduce.
>Tara turned 16 during the judas contract
>meaning she was 15 during the whole time with the titans
>but she was working for Slade even before then meaning Slade knew her before she turned 15
>Why are you assuming Terra isn't just an evil b***h
Because everything we know about her can only be viewed from the lens of Slade grooming her.
>BUT he is back to being presented as unquestionably evil
But for what though? Is it presented unquestionably evil because he's a hired killer or because he's a pedophilic rapist?
>If it is wrong to profit off of villains portrayed as villains then that means DC can’t profit off of Lex Luther, Joker, etc. Marvel can’t market Red Skull, Carnage, etc.
There's a crucial difference here is that DC is ignoring the elephant in the room in that Slade notoriety as a villain is that he had sex with an underage girl.
Because that doesn't sound cool to us anymore but it's undeniably that's what happened in the judas contract.
>Because everything we know about her can only be viewed from the lens of Slade grooming her
She was working for him since she was 15 at least. People don't just lose their autonomy because they're teens. She was a willing participant and every interaction after has shown that Terra was willing and completely fine with what she did.
Reddit refuges
>Reddit refuges
What backpedaling and goalpost moving will they do when DeSantis fully hijacks their cause?
If a kid comes on to you as an adult it's your responsibility as the older party to reject those advances.
Terra would have had to be 11 when she met Slade to consider him a pedo, assuming she went through average puberty.
Holy frick that can’t be a real page lmao
That’s too fricking funny
No, you’re missing the point. DC is never going to stop marketing any character, they’re a business and they want to profit off all characters. The idea that they would simply turn off the marketing machine for an IP because of a storyline is laughable.
The question at hand is whether or not it’s appropriate to redeem a villain and then market them as a hero. I agree that it was morally questionable to redeem Slade and profit off of him as a hero… BUT he is back to being presented as unquestionably evil. He is presented to the audience as evil and morally reprehensible, so I have no qualms with DC.
If it is wrong to profit off of villains portrayed as villains then that means DC can’t profit off of Lex Luther, Joker, etc. Marvel can’t market Red Skull, Carnage, etc.
>they’re a business and they want to profit off all characters
They don't act like that though.
But the thing is that Slade is only noteworthy for fricking an underage girl so why would you want to market him as a badass mercenary for Batman to fight.
>Why market a morally reprehensible villain as a dangerous and capable antagonist to their greatest hero?
A conundrum indeed.
But they're not being upfront about what makes Slade morally reprehensible.
>DC wants him to be a marketable badass which is hard when you're objectively a pedo groomer.
False
Slade has been rehabilitated because DC doesn't actually want people to focus on the fact that Slade's biggest story is him sexually grooming an underage girl so they just ignore it.
Same
>Yes Kara, we can't get married because of Kryptonian law. Even though Krypton is gone. And we're on Earth. And there's nothing on this Earth that could stop us...
Never forget.
Doesn't Deathstroke prefer boys?
It kind of makes sense since DC is a pedophile comic.
You should always understand that the stories are capsules of their time, New Teen Titans was published in 1982, in the 80s a relationship between an adult man and a teenager was much more much more accepted by public opinion. It was not until the late 80s and early 90s that the The age of consent began to be taken much more seriously. If Marv Wolfman had first written that story in the 1990s, Deathstroke would have been more vilified in the comic.
Oh, you mean a thread for me? You guys shouldn’t have! 🙂
>Caring about fictional age gaps in comics
Do anons really?
It's not about the age gap but how narratively illogical it is to condemn Tara while condoning Slade. There was a real narrative here about how brilliant The Judas Contract by bucking conventionality and having Tara be irredeemably evil as a twist but if you stop to think about it for like a second you realize that all her actions are entirely at the behast of Slade.
Yeah, there's this undertone that Terra is in a way worse than Slade by being a traitor, but she only did this because of him, the guy fricking a minor and beefing with a team of young adults less than half his age.
>Terra is in a way worse than Slade by being a traitor, but she only did this because of him
Tara literally thought Slade loved her and was going to run off with her. There's also this huge deal about how Tara is mentally and emotionally distrubed which back in the day was supposed to be the thing makes her irredeemable like oh this b***h was crazy so there was never any hope of of redeemption because you can't fix crazy!
But nowadays you look at it and it's more like wow she was even more psychologically vulnerable then a regular 15 year old girl.
That's why people who say you're taking away her agency when you say she was groomed are missing the point, Terra was denied agency by being scapegoated.
Not just emotionally disturbed though, but borderline full-blown psychopath. She's a stereotypical bad seed.
>sad elephant noises
>Not just emotionally disturbed though, but borderline full-blown psychopath.
That is what the text say so I can't say otgerwise and something tells me that trying to argue mentally ill=psychopath=evil would be a useless endeavor with the people who want Tara to be labeled as Evil.
So instead let's focus on the fact that she is still the less culpable party here. We cannot ignore the fact that everything, including Tara's role as a mole, is because of slade.
I'll assume from the context a =/= was intended in there somewhere. But yes, the diminished capacity argument could also be made for one.
As to slade, I'd have to look but still swear I remember him saying it was tara who approached him. Could just be mandela effect. At any rate she wasn't simply turned, but a willing, one might even say eager accomplice, with goals of her own.
He did say that but you're assuming he's a reliable narrator in that regard when A)he has every reason to lie and B) what he's suggesting doesn't even make sense like why would Tara even be the one to approach him? It doesn't make a lot of sense seeing how she was his subordinate.
If it wasn't true, DC have had DECADES in which to say otherwise. You're just refusing to accept the story and canon as written, and it's a story from the 1980s. Let it go, dude. Your waifu an evil bawd.
But it was decades of being written by the same guy who used Tara as a scapegoat in the first place.
Wolfman hasn't been the writer of Titans since the mid 90s. If anyone else wanted to revisit the story and do the Terra Did Nothing Wrong retcon you so desperately want, they've had almost 30 years.
>anyone else wanted to revisit the story and do the Terra Did Nothing Wrong retcon you so desperately want,
They did though, both brad meltzer and geoff johns wrote Slade as an immoral child abuser.
Just because it's canon doesn't make infallible and you can understand where my logic is coming from? Slade has every reason to lie about his relationship with Tara and his story that Tara approached him kinda falls apart when you realize he was planning to kill the titans for revenge for his son way before Tara came into the picture. There's also the farce that Slade, a meticulous strategist, was gonna hire a crazy person for his elaborate scheme?
Ok so you're saying that if somebody did retcon that as Slade grooming and raping Tara that you'll concede because canon trumps everything.
No, of course not you cuck simp.
Why not anon? You've been saying that because there is no counternarrative to Slade's claims that we just have to accept it as the objective truth about the judas contract.
Why would you want to accept a retcon that a villain did nothing wrong and was just a poor innocent victim?
She's a villain. She was created to be a villain. Let her be a villain.
But she's not a villain, she's a scapegoat.
>Why would you want to accept a retcon that a villain did nothing wrong and was just a poor innocent victim?
Because it's the most logical reading of the situation.
>subordinate isn't allowed to suggest ideas of their own.
That subordination was after the fact, and I would say they were more like partners anyway, though not perhaps an equal partnership.
What doesn't make sense is his somehow singling her out and identifying her as a worthy candidate for his plan. I mean he might be a good judge of bad character and he certainly studies his victims but what real reason would he have to suspect that some litteral who random meta, the sister of a known superhero no less, was not only impressionable enough to fall for his spiel just because he swung his BWC in her direction but also sadistic enough to want to go along with it? It's way more public knowledge in-universe that slade had a mad-on for the Titans than the other way around.
To add, Tara's as much as stated that she hates the Titans in particular because they're emblematic of everything she hates about heroes, and slade is a merc with first-hand experience dealing with them. He would be the natural choice for her to approach for help taking them down even if their goals didn't align.
You got your timelines mixed up as Brion only became a public known superhero after Slade recruited her.
>That subordination was after the fact,
I actually have zero idea what you mean by that. Like seriously, what do you mean the subordination came after the fact?
>I would say they were more like partners anyway, though not perhaps an equal partnership.
Yeah almost as if Tara was taking order from slade? Like perhaps in a way that suggest she was in a lower ranking position in the partnership. Man if only there was a word for that?!?
>What doesn't make sense is his somehow singling her out and identifying her as a worthy candidate for his plan
Child abusers are good at that, finding the most vulnerable like say a emotionally distubed runaway teen.
>I mean he might be a good judge of bad character and he certainly studies his victims but what real reason would he have to suspect that some litteral who random meta, the sister of a known superhero no less, was not only impressionable enough to fall for his spiel
Because she was underaged and he was grooming her. Also Brion became Geo-face after the fact so you fricked that up.
>but also sadistic enough to want to go along with it?
Yeah the cognitive dissonance of the judas contract saying Tara was somehow both psycho crazy but also had the wherewithal to hide it from the titans.
You know what doesn't make sense about everything you jist saod though? The fact that there's zero reason for Tara to assume she needs a middleman to begin with. If she wanted to fight the titans out of sheer hate then wouldn't she have just done that instead of the mich riskier task of trying to infiltrate the titans?
>I actually have zero idea what you mean by that
Meaning she became his subordinate/accomplice after she approached him with the idea of teaming up against the Titans in the first place.
>Yeah almost as if Tara was taking order from slade?
A brains/brawn situation. He's the man with the plan but she's clearly not just a hireling.
>Child abusers are good at that
>Also Brion became Geo-face after the fact
Granted. I'm not up on the Outsiders. But that just makes it more unlikely. How did he even find her? The superpowered teen runaways section in the back of Soldier Of Fortune?
>Yeah the cognitive dissonance of the judas contract saying Tara was somehow both psycho crazy but also had the wherewithal to hide it from the titans.
Crazy=/= stupid. Psychopaths/Sociopaths learn to be extremely good at faking reactions and masking their real ones.
>there's zero reason for Tara to assume she needs a middleman to begin with.
Knowing what you want to do and how to go about it are two different things. Plus she was outnumbered and at least partially outgunned.
Like I said, she's crazy, not stupid. She knew she needed help, and who better than the one man who'd fought them almost to a standstill on several occasions and nearly killed one of them?
>Meaning she became his subordinate/accomplice after she approached him with the idea of teaming up against the Titans in the first place.
He's the one who hired her. I find it hard to believe that Tara would feel the need to teamup considering she has superpowers. If she wanted to fight the titans then she literally just could've done that.
>He's the man with the plan but she's clearly not just a hireling
Yeah, she's his rape victim too.
>How did he even find her?
Well she was a government test subject so theoretical there would be paper work about a young impressionable geokinetic.
>Psychopaths/Sociopaths learn to be extremely good at faking reactions and masking their real ones.
Not Tara. She was written very much to be abrasive and aggresive loudmouth who always ready to pick fights with the other titans.
>Like I said, she's crazy, not stupid
Do you not see the paradox of sayong Tara was crazy but also had the presence of mind to plan all this?
Such fine digits, wasted on a white knight.
>If she wanted to fight the titans then she literally just could've done that.
Again, one of her against all of them.
>He's the one who hired her
Again, his word against your supposition. Some for if/how how he found her.
>Yeah, she's his rape victim too.
She doesn't talk like a victim around him and she definitely doesn't act subservient.
>She was written very much to be abrasive and aggresive loudmouth who always ready to pick fights with the other titans
Still a far cry from the "I keel you" rages she goes into toward the end. And she was able to put on a "sweet" face when she wanted to.
>Do you not see the paradox of sayong Tara was crazy but also had the presence of mind to plan all this?
No paradox. Serial killers can be quite meticulous and still be insane.
I'm not saying she planned it all though. The plan as executed was mostly slade's, and she may have played into his hands but that doesn't preclude her being the instigator and providing a means to that end he didn't have before.
>one of her against all of them.
Which fits her personality. That's exactly what happened too because Tara is not a meticulous person.
>She doesn't talk like a victim around him
Regardless of how she talks the fact is that an underage girl can't fully consent to sex which means that's rape.
>Still a far cry from the "I keel you" rages she goes into toward the end
She always did that shit though. Every other fricking day it would Tara having a temper tantrum trying to chuck a rock through someone's head
>Serial killers can be quite meticulous and still be insane.
Not really, insanity is a specific type of craziness where you're so out of it that you cannot even understand what you're doing.
>but that doesn't preclude her being the instigator
It kinda does
>That's exactly what happened too
Yeah, and how'd that work out for her?
>Regardless of how she talks the fact is that an underage girl can't fully consent to sex which means that's rape.
Which has nothing to do with whether or not she's glorified mook.
>She always did that shit though.
You remember the "I don't want to have to kill you" bit when they first met, posted in a previous thread?
>Not really, insanity is a specific type of craziness
Debatable since OCD and similar and psychosis can in some cases go hand in hand and she kind of had her moment in and out but that's beside the point, to wit:
>It kinda does
Not in the least, since the premise, backed by statement, is that the partnership was her idea, not every facet of the plan. We know that slade was already working toward the fulfillment of his son's contract with the HIVE but we don't know what that entailed. We do know that Ravager was going for the direct approach, and slade followed suit until Tara came along, presumably with the suggestion for the snow job but not necessarily all the fine detail needed, which slade had the expertise in where she wouldn't.
>Yeah, and how'd that work out for her?
But it's entirely within in her character to do so and in fact not doing so is very uncharacteristic of her.
>You remember the "I don't want to have to kill you" bit when they first met, posted in a previous thread?
No I mean when she was supposed to endearing herself to the team Tara would take every slight offense to the nth degree, lash out by throwing a rock at someone's head then would sulk when everyone called her out on her bullshit.
>Not in the least, since the premise, backed by statement, is that the partnership was her idea
The statement isn't coming from an inpartial source though as it's Slade saying that and Slade would every reason to lie about that.
>We know that slade was already working toward the fulfillment of his son's contract with the HIVE but we don't know what that entailed
It was murder.
>We do know that Ravager was going for the direct approach, and slade followed suit until Tara came along, presumably with the suggestion for the snow job but not necessarily all the fine detail needed, which slade had the expertise in where she wouldn't.
Absolutely none of that is true.
>not doing so is very uncharacteristic of her.
Would've defeated the purpose of the plan now, wouldn't it?
>Tara would take every slight offense to the nth degree, lash out by throwing a rock
Still not to the level of where she lost it completely and fricked gar's shit up before they calmed her down. (after which she conveniently "snapped out of it")
>The statement isn't coming from an inpartial source though
But no direct reason to assume he was lying. Just more supposition
>it was murder
>Absolutely none of that is true.
Ravager directly attacked the Titans. No subterfuge
Slade Directly attacked them the first time and nearly succeeded. No subterfuge.
Still doesn't mean she couldn't have come to slade with a basic idea he elaborated on.
>Would've defeated the purpose of the plan now, wouldn't it?
She has zero reason to care about the plan.
>But no direct reason to assume he was lying.
Yeah there is, it's called leniency.
>Still doesn't mean she couldn't have come to slade with a basic idea he elaborated on.
Tara has zero tactics bones in her body.
>She has zero reason to care about the plan.
IF it stood a better chance of getting her what she wanted she would.
>Yeah there is, it's called leniency.
Leniency? When he hadn't even been caught yet? Note where he says she was crazy from the start. Even raven says she's evil a few pages later, and being an empath, she should know.
>Tara has zero tactics bones in her body.
And again, what better reason to hook up with someone who does?
But wait, let's bop back up to the first panel here
and get things straight from the horse-tooth's mouth.
Shall I also post the one where she refers to him as her partner?
Ok so your argument is that we should just blindly accept canon then? No critical analysis just pure text based argument.
It's true because it's printed yes?
>IF it stood a better chance of getting her what she wanted she would.
There is no reason for her to believe that though.
>When he hadn't even been caught yet?
Yes.
>what better reason to hook up with someone who does
Because she wouldn't have the tactical forethought to do so.
You don't put off the shit she's been doing without being a little shrewd and calculating. The tactical thought involved here though consists mostly of of "jeeze I really wanna stomp those titans, but I don't wanna get stomped trying. who else do I know that's good at stomping titans?"
>Yes.
Oh come on. He isn't playing 4-dimensional chess here. There's that much less reason for him to be spinning plausible deniability when he still has the advantage than anything you're arguing for tara.
>Ok so your argument is that we should just blindly accept canon then? No critical analysis just pure text based argument.
It's true because it's printed yes?
When your "critical thinking" amounts to fanfiction, yes. Or were you being facetious?
>You don't put off the shit she's been doing without being a little shrewd and calculating
I think you're overestimating Tara. She may talk like she was raised in Brooklyn but she's a child of royalty, her actual exposure to the real world can be counted on one hand, this was her second job if we're to take Slade at his word like you do.
>The tactical thought involved here though consists mostly of of "jeeze I really wanna stomp those titans, but I don't wanna get stomped trying. who else do I know that's good at stomping titans?"
But here's the thing though anon, there's nothing logical about Tara believing this plan is more effective then just fighting the titans. Tara had a very high opinion of her self and her powers.
>He isn't playing 4-dimensional chess here.
It's not 4-D chess but the oldest trick in the book to try and say you were just a patsy and foster responsibility on the worse aspects of your crime onto someone else.
>There's that much less reason for him to be spinning plausible deniability
Yeah there is.
And again it's not a case my waifu can never be wrong, this is all about how clunky the climax of the judas contract because Wolfman has to do a complete 180 and pretend that Slade is just an innocent bystander and not the mastermind behind this whole fricking plot.
>Slade is just a guy who loves his family and not a piece of shit who abandoned them to go around the world killing people
>he loves his family more then the underage girl he groomed wow what a good person
>the sex between him and the underage girl he was raping was loveless so that makes everything done so far ok
Did they ever bring back Terra's buckteeth?
Terra wasn’t a traitor. She was never actually on the Titans’ side.
There is no evidence for or against Tara being a puppet or willing participant in Slade’s plans, except the word of the writer. Not a shred of evidence in the comics themselves though, so without knowing the creator’s intent it is impossible to deem her villain or victim.
Slade says she was evil before meeting him, but Slade is an unreliable source. He could be truthful in this instance or not, no evidence is provided either way.
She has a family and they share Slade's opinion
She's an evil and unredeemable b***h
>She has a family and they share Slade's opinion
No they don't, Brion famously thought the world of Tara.
I feel sorry for anyone who thinks bringing Brion up as proof that Tara was evil.
Brion is an idealistic idiot who barely knows her. The rest of her family, and her doctor, agree 100% with Slade. Imagine thinking you could slide her family's true opinions using Brion as your scapegoat
>her doctor
You mean Doctor Jace the other sociopath who was manipulating Brion?
Yeah she's has no alternative motive there right anon? Just gave the teenager she supposedly thought was pure evil incredibly powers that makes her 100x more dangerous.
Well Brion is her only family though.
She had another brother and two parents who disowned her before their own tragic death
sauce?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Sandiego_(TV_series)
One could say Babs as Batgirl groomed Dick as Robin. The age difference between is hella suspect and the way she talked about him when he was underage is groomer behavior. Plus the OG writers called her his sister and said she was too old for him. She kissed him when she was 18 and he was like 13. What grown woman fantasizes about dating a young boy? But if you mention this to Dick Babs fans, they will argue so fast about it. Dick Babs is a female groomer dream.
I think their age difference has been decreased more and more with each continuity reboot as they kept making Barbara younger, to the point that now I think she's only like 1 or 2 years older than him tops.
Why does this matter? They also changed the Tara situation and that doesn’t change anything. The matter of the fact is that DC can retcon all they want, the original intention is still there.
What exactly is the current canon on Terra and Deathstroke's relationship?
they made out but didn't frick.
christopher priest also rewrote the judas contract so terra's body was never found and that terra was in hiding for ages because she doublecrossed slade when slade tried to save jericho from being killed by HIVE and knew he would eventually come calling to get revenge. slade agreed to spare her if she joined his dark titans and then fricked off when slade disbanded the team, though she made a brief cameo at the end of dark crisis where she turned off the machines keeping slade from feeling pain in the stasis tube he was trapped inside of.
They changed it so that Terra REALLY wanted to frick Slade but he kept rejecting her (she would show up naked in his bed and he just told her to get dressed and leave), and he only kissed her once to calm her down because she thought his refusal to sleep with him meant he didn't care about her.
>Slade...even in OUR business...of killing innocent people...butchering them and torturing them to death for the crime of getting in teh way of crime lords...leaving their loved ones' lives and minds in ruin from the loss...leaving their dependents without someone to support them...taking away their god-given consciousness and lifetime of which they have one and only one...there is a LINE...
>and that line is that you had heckin sex with a 16 year old girl because that's against the law you sick freak
Yeah because not everyone is pro-pedophilia like you are anon.
Anti's are closeted depopulationists, they use pedophilia as an excuse to push through ideas that allow and reward things like forced abortions and sterilization
As Titans fans are quick to point out, Babs was literally Bruce's age when she was first introduced in the comics. She only started getting deaged when the Bat Editors finally got their hands back on Dick and wanted to make sure that Starfire was no longer his primary love interest. I don't think she was officially Dick's age until BtAS.
Why HAS it taken 133 posts before Terra's family is even mentioned?
I'm never gonna budge from this because in the end this is all about attacking bad writing that only exist to subvert your expectations. As a whole new teen titans doesn't help but the judas contract arc especially falls apart from the barest scrutiny.
Tara is an emotionally and mentally distrubed teenager, to claim that's she irredeemably evil just doesn't make sense when you know Slade was the mastermind behind Tara being a mole.
In fact the more I read about it the more it becomes obvious that the judas contract reputation is entirely a PR farce from comic collectors.
When did you realize anti-groomers were actually thinly-veiled depopulationists?
Is that X-23?
She's cute, source?
They knew it too that's why Terra got branded as the greater evil. If writers want this kind of shit ,they need to stop pussyfooting and just do it.
Lois is a superior pedo
Dick started early, probably with that woman from the circus
Holy shit, Dick really had no chance, he had to be a bawd at that point.
It is weird but Terra is such an butthole that I don't really care.
Barbara Gordon
Gross woman
ever heard of self-inserts?
So Wolfman's Nightwing run had a flashback story wherein Dick, when he was 16 years old, literally gets groomed by some woman named Liu who is trying to get him into her and her boyfriend's cult so they could use him to access to Wayne Industries
And this is Liu's boyfriend and the cult leader Metal Eddie.
You just KNOW they were a couple weeks away of grooming him into a threesome.
Why do people label Slade a pedophile? Yes, he manipulated Terra with the promise of a romantic relationship, but he never intended to make good on that promise. Nor did he ever actually sleep with her, contrary to popular belief. The closest he ever came was kissing her, because she was aggressively coming onto him. And, y'know, almost fricking killed him. What he did was shitty, but he's explicitly not attracted to minors.
Also, why do people act like Terra was some innocent dindunuthin? Even before Slade met her, she was a contract killer. She's an evil bastard, not a victim.
That's post Flashpoint.
Pre FP they did frick. A conversation Slade had with Gar a few issues after Judas Contract makes it pretty fricking clear Slade fricked her.
Technically, Slade didn't give Garfield a straight answer.
Yes.. because he did frick her. If he hadn't he would've just said no.
>Tried to frick an underage Mary Jane.
>Tried to frick an underage Liz Allen.
Why did they make Ultimate Wolverine a pedophile?
The other option was basing him off Chris Benoit and do you really want to live with the image of Logan murdering his family?
I mean, it wouldn't be the first time.
Hasn't Logan killed like 50 of his kids
Did he form a proper relationship with any of them, is more my point
because he was suppoed to be unlikeable
Why did they make Ultimate Blob a cannibal?
Why did they make Ultimate Hulk a cannibal and a rapist?
Why did they make Ultimate Captain America a chud?
Okay, to be fair, the last one makes a lot of sense.
but he made it with those girls
Ultimate Wolverine is literally a pedophile and tried to frick Mary Jane.
Ultimate Wolverine actually did bone an underage Jean Grey in the first arc of Ultimate X-Men, and here we are talking about when he TRIED to bone MJ.
Jean's sex skills were so good they made Logan change sides and stop being a villain. Thanks, Millar.
and I'm pretty sure 616 wolverine fantasized about banging Squirrel Girl
Terra WAS a pure evil bawd though.
Was she though?
The Judas Contract is just pure narrative nonsense anon, a pure Rian Johnson where the only noteworthy about the story is how it subverts your expectations by illogically saying Slade is the lesser of two evil.
I'm surpised nobody mentions how cartoonishly obvious the writing by insiting we should just blindy accept that Tara was pure evil. Like Marv Wolfman is basically begging people to accept that narrative that Slade is above reproach for being a child rapist plotting to kill more children because the child he was raping was pure evil.
Loke thay somehow absolves him from both raping the kid and plotting to kill more teenagees.
Seriously that's the thing I can't get over; how many people will excuse child rape if the rapist just says that kid was already bad.
Nobody's saying that Tara's more evil than Slade, white knight-kun. But she was still an evil piece of shit and fricked in the head. I know it's a hard pill to swallow when you're a self-hating male who majored in gender studies and spends every night wishing you were born a woman, but it's not a hard concept to understand.
>But she was still an evil piece of shit
Was she though? Because if we're saying she's not as bad as Slade and all her evil actions were at the behast of Slade then she's less the culpable then slade right?
>fricked in the head
Yeah, probably from all that being groomed and raped deal.
>Tara was pure evil because...WELL SHE JUST WAS OK!!?!
Indeed, I'm glad you agree.
Omg I want to groom cute little e-girls so much it's unreal
Is it okay if she's AKSHUALLY 16 billion years old?
Why was John Jacobs so obsessed with Terra?
if it's any consolation i think dc is indefinitely sidelining slade because he used to be a groomer 40 years ago. as someone who liked priest's run and wouldn't mind reading a comic about a piece of shit doing shitty things i'm disappointed slade probably wont appear for a while
Deathstroke didn’t frick or seduce Terra because he’s into underage girls. He did it to accomplish a mission.
Morally speaking. I don’t see why he’s supposedly worse now. This a man who accepts contracts from warlords to help genocide tribes.
>He did it to accomplish a mission.
Even though doing so is what fricked the mission up the most?
Yeah, he made a mistake. A tactical error. Why does this make a difference?
It's because he just wanted to fick an underage girl.
Emma Frost grooms religious minority teenagers
Like name 10?
Democratic Illinois State Representative, Keith Farnham, has resigned and was charged with possession of child pornography and has been accused of bragging at an online site about sexually molesting a 6-year-old girl.
Democratic spokesperson for the Arkansas Democratic Party, Harold Moody, Jr, was charged with distribution and possession of child pornography.
Democratic Radnor Township Board of Commissioners member, Philip Ahr, resigned from his position after being charged with possession of child pornography and abusing children between 2 and 6 years-old.
Democratic activist and BLM organizer, Charles Wade, was arrested and charged with human trafficking and underage prostitution.
Democratic Texas attorney and activist, Mark Benavides, was charged with having sex with a minor, inducing a child under 18 to have sex and compelling prostitution of at least nine legal clients and possession of child pornography. He was found guilty on six counts of sex trafficking.
Democratic Virginia Delegate, Joe Morrissey, was indicted on charges connected to his relationship with a 17-year-old girl and was charged with supervisory indecent liberties with a minor, electronic solicitation of a minor, possession of child pornography and distribution of child pornography.
Democratic Massachusetts Congressman, Gerry Studds, was censured by the House of Representatives after he admitted to an inappropriate relationship with a 17-year-old page.
Democratic Former Mayor of Stillwater, New York, Rick Nelson was plead guilty to five counts of possession of child pornography of children less than 16 years of age.
Democratic Former Mayor of Clayton, New York, Dale Kenyon, was indicted for sexual acts against a teenager.
Democratic Former Mayor of Hubbard, Ohio, Richard Keenan, was given a life sentence in jail for raping a 4-year-old girl.
batman should make an exception and put this kidfricker to death
Well, I'm off to the land of Nod. Here, you can argue about Sat-Yr-9 while I'm gone.
>libertarian thread
It's weird that "groomer" at it's most charitable is just a word from "propagandist" which has the implication of sexual abuse. "Sexualization" now means "making kids aware of sexuality by way of pointing out something that can make them realize that legally marriage isn't limited by biological sex". It's insane. The word Orwellian gets thrown around, but that weaseling around with language to not engage with the substance of a real issue and instead infer an easy moral choice by reducing it to a convenient tangent. You don't have to say "I hold negative views of gays and gay politics and don't want my kids to have even neutral views of these things". And there is a line there: in a vacuum, you can convince your children of almost anything. Outside information ruins that. In the most consistent language, this is about the parent's ability to more perfectly groom their children.
The irony being that often these people are the "do your own research, make up your own mind" types.
Heroes and sidekicks are an interesting topic to deconstruct as groomers.