According to Maxwell Atoms, Hannah Montana being such a huge hit for Disney caused the decline of cartoons and rise of live-action across every network, with CN cancelling their cartoons for CN Real and Nick cancelling their Nicktoons if they weren’t as popular as shows like ICarly
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Hanna Montana was such a weird thing to me
Was it really a vanity project to uplift an old country singer and his up n coming pop singer daughter?
A lot of kid's live action media is like this. Kids get last generations slop
Many live action shows are. See this for another example
Yes, it is fairly common, see Will Smith and his son.
Literally look at every live action Disney Channel show between 2000 and 2015 (the chain broke with Jenny Ortega in Stuck in the Middle).
Each one was a vehicle for the main girl (either lead or most prominent female cast member) to take a stab at a singing career. The successful ones keep singing under the wider Disney umbrellas record label, the less successful ones go all in on acting or voice acting to not make it a wasted investment. Sometimes, they push the boys to a singing career too.
>Christy Romano (Even Stevens / Kim Possible)
>Hilary Duff (Lizzie McGuire)
>Raven (The Cheetah Girls / That's So Raven)
>Amy Bruckner (Phil of the Future / American Dragon Jake Long)
>Ashley Tisdale (Suite Life of Zack and Cody / High School Musical / Phineas & Ferb)
>Debby Ryan (Suite Life on Deck / Jessie)
>Selena Gomez (Wizards of Waverly Place)
>Demi Lovato (Camp Rock / Sonny with a Chance)
>Chelsea Kane (Jonas / Fish Hooks)
Yes, even in the show focussed on the music act the Jonas Brothers, the female lead was releasing music at the time of the show
>Bridgit Mendler (Good Luck Charlie)
>Bella Thorne (Shake it Up)
>China Anne McClain (A.N.T. Farm / Descendants)
>Laura Marano (Austin & Ally)
Also Sofia Carson who was also in Descendents
>Avery Jennings (Dog with a Blog)
>Dove Cameron (Liv & Maddie / Descendents)
>Olivia Holt (Kickin It / I Didn't Do It)
>Sabrina Carpenter (Girl Meets World)
A slight exception here, as Rowan Blanchard is the non-musical lead
>Zendaya (Shake it Up / K.C. Undercover)
>Lauren Taylor (Best Friends Whenever)
Hannah Montana also tried to push Emily Osment and Mitchel Musso's music careers too. I remember watching Disney Channel and they constantly had Mitchel's music video on it along with some other singles from "Disney Channel Stars" of the time. As for Cory in the House, they tried to push Kyle Massey as a rapper.
>Hilary Duff (Lizzie McGuire)
I'm still mad they cancelled the revival despite one of Disney+'s first trailers having footage from the show.
>>Amy Bruckner (Phil of the Future / American Dragon Jake Long)
ehhh?
She played the younger sister in both shows
I meant in terms of her being promoted as a musical act. I don't remember either show doing anything really for that.
Nick failed in that regard, only Ariana Grande became huge.
>only Ariana Grande became huge.
And that wasn't even their main pick, lol
>only Ariana Grande became huge.
Worst thing is that AG independently did the push herself on youtube
>Mitchel Musso
Saw some news about him being arrested recently. Looks like time has not been kind to him
>5' 8"
I'd be depressed too
*5’ 6”
Don’t get fooled by the cooping pompadour.
Does he still do Jeremy on Phineas and Ferb?
Phineas and Ferb is done
Austin and Ally feels like the odd one out here. Ross Lynch was definitely the one getting pushed on that show, Marano didn't really do nearly as much singing on the show itself until s2 onward iirc. But that's the one that started with the movie right? I also don't recall Sophia singing on that show at all, but she was just a recurring guest.
Fwiw I don't think they've stopped so much as scaled back and diversified the approach. The high school musical spinoff definitely wanted Olivia Rodrigo to be the music girl at first, and they've continued to push that one dude and the replacement girl since. They're also trying to push a few new girls with their other ongoing shows, but not as hard.
Nick's difficulties is a testament to how important having infrastructure like radio disney is to pushing the music careers. Disney just had an easier time saturating their target audience.
The thing was that it unironically worked. Miley became a star and Billy Ray was able to piggyback another hit song with Lil Nas X with the remix of Old Town Road. Heck it's very likely the reason why Lil Nas X chose Billy Ray to be his guest feature was probably because he saw him on Hannah Montana.
It didn't start as one, or at least to the same extent.
It was always meant to be a show about a country pop musician with a secret identity, but it starring Billy Ray and his family was nepotism. During the casting of the show, Miley was already auditioning for different projects (trying to find her footing in the industry) and one of the projects was Hannah Montana (which was yet to have a title.)
Supposedly, a different actress was lined up and even tested, but Disney found out about Miley's parents and that Billy Ray would be willing to star and sing in exchange for casting his daughter (and rumored to be paid at a lower rate than normal for his rate of celebrity) and suddenly the show was revamped.
>Supposedly, a different actress was lined up and even tested
One of them was Daniella Monet before she went to Nick on Victorious. Also the character was originally Chloe Stewart, but when Miley was cast, they just used her name.
ayyy gossip girlll
I really didn't get that kind of sense from it. Billy Ray was very much in the background and less involved than other parents in the shows at the time.
this is so funny
I liked hannah montana
It's okay, me too.
be my gf
my frickin basketball american
I had a huge crush on miley cyrus back then
Just say Black person you frickin pussy
God I hate zoomers
If anybody says they didn't they're lying or soulless.
I liked the episode where Miley wants Jackson to not cheat on a University test, the theatrical movie was kino
i never understood why they didn't kill rico
implying they could
It was okay. Shame Miley became a satanic elite sex slave.
For some godforsaken reason I cried in the hannah montana reveal ep, I still vividly remember that day because my mom mocked the frick out of me for that.
All the executives and producers liked her too, anon, very very much. The show being so popular was just a bonus.
A lot of people loved that show, I got that limited edition PSP (used at a good price) only because I liked her.
Yeah, Hoedown Throwdown and The Climb were pretty memorable to me, people in my class would sing the former for days.
mate i liked all the disney sitcoms including hannah montana. you aren't alone
My little brother liked it but i thought Emily Osment was cute at the time
She was also Kendall on Kick Buttowski (back when Disney actors also voiced in cartoons).
Nick completely failed in this aspect. The only notable example they had was Jerry Trainor as TUFF Puppy.
The rest were too busy getting railed by Dan
That's MY baby.
Congratulations!
Remember the Jaime Spears pregnant rumors?
remember?
Hannah Montana was an eccentric country rock sweat heart. Miley Cyrus is a bawd.
>subject topic
The R&M Pickle Rick episode is what got a lot of people, though that was more of a shark jump than a sign things were getting "different".
Horse show had a few, though I still watched the whole thing and the movies.
(Insert various cartoons with romance plots that would frick the whole series up in the long run here)
Korra getting her bending back at the season 1 finale and she show continuing to four seasons was another one.
(Insert most of Adventure Time after season 3 or so here. That singing episode with the door was probably Patient Zero.)
>thread topic
Makes sense, live action was huge, and animation in general was declining for various other reasons, like most animation studios shuttering after the switch to digital art.
Plus I imagine live action stuff probably cost less to make, and companies were pretty jealous of Disney's whole "grooming child actors and actresses into being lifetime Disney simps in the hopes they become pawns for decades and not spiral into drugs and alcohol too badly" thing.
To be fair, she wasn't a prostitute back then while the show was running. Something about becoming an adult turned her into a nasty-ass harlot with probably 30 STDs, and I get the feeling her dad wasn't particularly happy about it since they stopped doing any collab shit together
I imagine if you were under the shackles of Disney for so long you'd rebel the second you had the chance too.
Yeah, that's always been a big staple of most child actors/singers/performers/etc., they get locked into this whole celebrity thing, lose their childhoods, often don't even get to go to a real school, don't get to play much, and get passed around like a ragdoll from one performance to another, so once they get a little freedom, they break, like Michael Jackson's whole shtick of collecting a ton of creepy kid memorabilia in his house and getting a nosejob and all that surgery.
It's one of the biggest reasons I like how Bluey handles it, very few of the kids actors are named (like, two total?) and that keeps them from getting dragged into a life of being hounded (ha) by the bazillions of people who desperately want to see those kids act in something else.
Miley and a lot of ex-Disney kids have been pretty open that a lot of that period was them trying to tank their images so Disney would drop them and they'd be free from their bullshit, hence why after that moral panic died down she pretty much went back to normal.
Though I'm sure they were pretty fricked up at the time anyways
>Miley and a lot of ex-Disney kids have been pretty open that a lot of that period was them trying to tank their images so Disney would drop them and they'd be free from their bullshit,
Based
I jerk offd to Hannah Montana every time it came on, I really wanted to screw Miley Cyrus. Nowadays though, eh no. Her wrecking ball phase completely ruined my boner
Emily Osment was cuter
So did I, but I was a cartoon network kid at heart
me too
also the best friend was played by the sister of the guy who voices Sora
how ironic
Kickin It was better. It was like a Disney version of Cobra Kai and even had a ton of genuinely cool fight scenes every episode.
Didn't Reuben Langdon make an appearance on that show.
I always turned over when my parents walked in.
I loved it as a kid but a few years ago I rewatched a lot of my favorite shows as a kid. Was surprised how many of them held up, almost all of the cartoons and even most of the live action ones, but Hannah Montana is legitimately unwatched as an adult, genuinely feel bad about how often I made my parents sit through it.
Better than Schneider shows post-Drake and Josh
When I was 15, I believed that live-action was an inherently inferior medium to animation, because the only funny live-action sitcom I ever saw was Drake and Josh. I know now that there are tons of good sitcoms, but not on kids networks.
Why would cartoons like Billy and Mandy, SpongeBob, Fosters, etc. be written for all ages and have real effort put in, while the live-action stuff was always garbage?
My pet theory is that all cartoonists, regardless of what demographic they want to create stuff for, end up in kids TV because that's where the openings are, especially if you want to do anything other than on-model, 3/4 angle funny family shit. However, people who want to work in live-action have so many places to choose from that the only people working in kid sitcoms are those who couldn't get hired by NBC.
I had hannah montana pj's as a kid. its fine to like it
People love to shit on disney but I do not regret admitting that early 2000s disney channel was my comfy go to when staying up late and watching tv as a kid. Was too pussy to watch adult swim because there were too many horror movie commercials or bumpers that just straight up spook you and nick at nite was just boring.
Me too anon. Lily was my waifu.
It made me want a sitcom of just Jackson and Billy, those two were always the best chemistry on the show.
24 replies??
homies love hannah montana
Hannah Montana was great, paired well with Zack and Cody
I liked it too. I remember fricking hating Rico so goddamn much then I think there was one episode where he gets eternally BTFO'd and just cries. Not in a "haha, loser" kind of way but in a "damn, bro was really trying his hardest huh?". After that he got a lot more bearable. Hannah and the rest of the supporting cast were alright too I guess.
I don't understand how the description relates to the title
I was expecting something different. maybe related to an episode pinpointed as being the mark of decline in regards to a series, or the beginning of a bad trend, etc.
Funnily enough the episode literally titled "Lesson Zero" of horse show applies here. It was the first episode to focus on Twilight becoming a neurotic paranoid unhinged mess in times of high stress. Everyone loved crazy Twilight and thought she was funny/creepy/hot. Then a few seasons later being neurotic became her defining character trait, to the point where they kept recycling the joke of her freaking out over small things and over and over again, even in situations she wouldn't have before. In fact, that's what happens in her very first scene in the movie, that's what the writers thought was the main thing the audience needed to know about her by that point. And sure, one can easily see how a responsible booksmart character learning not to overexert themselves with worry is a compelling story, but it's also extremely annoying when regurgitated over and over again and starts to eclipse her character.
>horse show
Anon you can say MLP it's not a slur and you didn't even post a pic of one those pastel horses.
good attempt jannie but we already know that you get paid in hot pockets every time you ban someone
>janny
>getting paid in anything
horsefricker
I only jerk off to anthros/humanized
>anthros/humanized
It's kind of insane that Disney Channel was to blame for CN abandoning cartoons, and nowadays Disney has many more cartoons than CN. I really hope CN will return to actually making cartoons eventually, if only to keep copying Disney.
>that's what the writers thought was the main thing the audience needed to know
I guess you probably already knew it, but the leaks showed that late writers got ridiculous short notes as bios for the characters and a completely moronic list of episodes to "know" them, and that's the one episode that defined her, no wonder why it became the biggest part of her personality.
>I guess you probably already knew it, but the leaks showed that late writers got ridiculous short notes as bios for the characters and a completely moronic list of episodes to "know" them, and that's the one episode that defined her, no wonder why it became the biggest part of her personality.
That explains a lot about why it became so prominent in the show itself, but for the movie in particular Meghan McCarthy (the same person who wrote Lesson Zero and was the showrunner for seasons 3-6) was heavily involved in the writing and the screenplay for the movie. She didn't need to be told about her own episode, she just regurgitated the idea.
I think it's also just that "level headed smart one" having this weird "anxiety induced neuroticism" mode was weirdly just a trope with cartoons in general at the time because those characters were often writer's pets and the dialogue around mental health became huge at the time
i mean yeah, you see it all the time. look at edd from EEnE. Difference is he was like this from the start. It's just the natural flanderization that happens when a new group of writers replaces the old ones and don't understand what made the character work in the first place. It's easier to write for a character when you didn't create them and don't actually care about consistency.
Episode 100 was the shit point.
No it was still great by that point
S5 was when the show started seeming too self-aware and losing its "authenticity" in a sense, and just didn't have the natural charm and passion behind it. At least to me. The episode 100 memefest kind of embodied that, and from that point onward I sort of clocked out.
You're both wrong. The episode for pic related was the single point of ruination for it.
There were bad and damaging episodes before, sure, but they were recoverable, even the S2 finale to an extent.
This one however, that was the point of no return, as proven by how unwatchably shit season 4 was.
S4 is usually considered one of the best ones. It's autistic to hate Twilicorn on principle when there were more substantial issues anyway.
.HURRR IMMA FRICKING homosexual WHO SUCKS israelite DICK ALL DAY CUM YUM YUM
Yes, dysgenic reprobates think the rest of the show was good, but it wasn't, fricktard.
Literally every change for the worse that occurred after it (the castle, glimmer, flurry, the epilogue, right up to the epilogue), is directly linked to that one single change.
It seems to me that the source of all of those problems was really the royal wedding.
Glimmer had nothing to do with Twilight being an alicorn
Also please do tell me how a comfykino episode like Pinkie Apple Pie becomes worse from having come after Twilicorn
>S4 is usually considered one of the best ones.
No it isn't you liar.
People like to always push this myth that Faust left due to the toy company pushing its girl toy brand onto the show incorporating toys into the show, but in reality, she left because of money.
It shouldn't surprise anyone who followed the show. Didn't seem strange that artists who worked on a pretty popular show just kept quitting? Well, there's a reason for that, DHX was a horrible place to work, absolute hell on Earth:
https://twitter.com/GatsbyblueArt/status/1704803903244837083
>DHX was a horrible place to work
Well, it is Canadian.
Honestly, I hated how this consequently also made the other 5 into idiots who can’t take anything seriously. They’ll usually ignore what twilight says even if she’s not being a spaz. The movie is the worst of this where it feels like twi is the only one taking their situation even slightly seriously.
Swarm of the century had her freak out towards the end. The first ep was also all about her obsessing over an old legend while everybody, including Spike and the princess told her to chill out. Playing up her autism was a way of getting some conflict going since she was normally the voice of reason who would show up and tard wrangle the rest of the cast.
And yet this wasn't the only possible way to create conflict.
It was the best way besides look before you sleep where the joke was that Twilight was too socially inexperienced to read the room.
Even if you create conflict from Twilight being too controlling, you don't have to make her do le ebin psycho act XDDD every single time.
i, too, want to frick Twilight, but my heart belongs to Fluttershy.
Shame she belongs to Discord.
I only watched Hannah Montana because I was in love with the DILF
billy ray cyrus? Anon please.
Mom pls
I literally never cared for live action slop, even as a dumb kid. The sole exception was Lizzie McGuire because it felt like it had a Malcolm in the Middle level of production and the cartoon bits were fun.
i really enjoyed the theme song
Damn I just realized how anime this opening is. It's like a SoL anime
Why are Disney girls back then so much hotter than girls today? Would frick the girl on the right though.
Most of the kids who are attractive enough to end up on the Disney pipeline are on the tiktok influencer to OnlyFans pipeline instead
Frick that's depressing. I hate how prostitution has become normalized through the disingenuous term of "sex work". So many woman who could have become talented actresses or even just talented women in general are now whoring themselves out online for strangers to whack it to. Yeah that'll show the patriarchy.
i guess I can't blame eighteen year olds for being stupid but it is a little sad OF got glamorized as some quick easy cash thing so people who have zero experience with lasting consequences put themselves permanently on the internet
evidently a lot of people who do onlyfans stuff prefer it since they work on their own terms and dont need to suck up to producers and execs, as a freelancer myself i 100% get it. the industry blows wieners and posting your breasts online and getting to pocket all of the cash has to give you more dignity than the awful shit people have to do to get ahead in acting.
Blame Hollywood for sucking, why wouldnt someone want to be their own boss instead? Actors are on strike now after all
>google Lizzie McGuire
>it only lasted for 2 seasons/3 years in IRL time
Wtf, that can't possibly be true
apparently Drake and Josh only lasted like 4 years.
That feels accurate outside that Josh went from fat cute boy to Cinemaphile chad within those four years
Drake at least appeared in every Schneiderverse show.
When you're a kid, 4 years is a literal eternity. I remember my life at 2003 as an elementary school kid vs my life in 2007 in high school as being like two totally different worlds, let alone two different eras of my life
Yet as a grizzled, defeated adult, 2019 feels like yesterday. The Owl House came AFTER that and went off the air and I thought it was a FOTM, even though it lasted the same amount of time as Teen Titans, which when I was growing up I thought it lasted forever on TV. There are probably Alphababbies right now that think of shows that are only a few years old now as being almost institutions of modern media, that we on Cinemaphile barely even realize are airing.
>Owl House
>even though it lasted the same amount of time as Teen Titans
That can't possibly be true
TOH - 2019-2023
TT - 2003-2006
I was thinking lately about how long running SpongeBob is. I never really understood since I grew up with it so to me it was sorta a “new show” but SpongeBob has at this point been running roughly four times as long as Betty Boop (1932- 38).
Well, 2003 *was* indeed a different cultural era from 2007. 2004 was a noticeable cultural shift (CN rebranding from Powerhouse to City, Friends finale, broadband rollout, Myspace emo).
And 2019 to 2023 was literally before Covid into today in our post lockdown Ukraine war super inflation world. Even troony shit went crazy in that time.
>Even troony shit went crazy in that time.
Did I imagine it or was there a thing with trannies complaining about having to see trannies in zoom calls and how disgusting that was?
And Hillary Duff was hot
That seems weird, the show felt huge at the time.
still is
I used to imagine my inner monologe as a cute girl thanks to this show.
same omg. core memory unlocked.
homosexual.
is that why you eventually decided to chop it off?
The Suite Life of Zach and Cody was fun imo. But otherwise you're right
It really felt like the quality dropped when On Deck came around. The side characters they replaced the old ones with weren't as likable, and the stories themselves just got weird. It felt like the twins having an extended tandem fever dream. It introduced me to prime Debby Ryan though, so it wasn't all bad.
I watched one episode of suite life.
I think Moseby said something sarcastically to the effect of "Right, sure you'll get a passing grade. And I'm an authentic exotic belly dancer."
Then he laughed to himself until he realized a patron over heard him. And I'm response, he just started belly dancing.
Queue laugh track.
Felt like the kind of thing that someone would laugh at if they had 2 brain cells. I couldn't fricking stand live action sitcoms.
>In late December 1991, Lewis was arrested after he fatally struck Isabel Duarte, a resident of Bethesda, Maryland, in a car crash. He was charged with manslaughter and driving while intoxicated. His blood alcohol level at the time measured three times the limit for legal intoxication. The court sentenced Lewis to five years in prison, but suspended four, citing Lewis's work after his arrest with a prison-based theater troupe that performed in jails, schools, and churches, to highlight the consequences of drug abuse. Lewis was also ordered to serve two years' probation after his release and to perform 350 hours of community service
He didn't PRNDL so well
He clearly didn't know his AM from his FM.
Man hooch is crazy
same, the exception for me was icarly though
Lizzie McGuire was cancelled because of Disney's 65 episode rule.
The staff wanted to created more episodes.
Fans wanted more episodes.
Advertisers wanted more to make $$$ off merch.
But Disney Channel Execs mindset was that they can't make us new stuff to sell if they keep producing old stuff.
So, pretty much every 00s Disney Channel show (live action or animated) was ended earlier because Disney didn't want it to become 'dated'. Which, is pretty much the opposite of their current gameplay of running everything into the ground until it stops making money.
There are a few examples where they didn't can it right at 65, but usually there were other factors involved. Kim Possible had multiple mail-in petitions that was so large in volume Disney even publicly commented on it, and it's believed that's part of the reason the rule is no longer enforced to the same extreme.
Nick had similar policies, but they were not as clearly defined our public like Disney's was (where even staff would complain online how dumb the rule was or sneak cameos into their show, like Pic Related)
I thought part of that was also because the kid disney contracts ran out after 3 seasons or something along those lines, so they'd have to pay bump the kids and offer them real contracts instead of the indentured servitude ones. They always do a location/title change post s3 even for the shows that do run on these days so it seems like there's something going on behind the scenes with that.
It's complicated. There's industry precedent that shows cost more to produce after an initial two seasons, but it's got a lot of variables involved. Typically, it's less of specific legislation or regulations and more a precedent for common contracts to have stipulations based upon the length of a project (implying the interest in it is due to the effort of the production staff, meaning they deserve more for keeping that audience watching or so says their contracts) but it both varies greatly and since it's all hypothetical value anyway different executives have different beliefs in how these manners should be handled on a project by project basis because of the value they personally perceive versus the planned cost of production.
Like, Justice League becoming Justice League Unlimited was a mixed bag. JL was a success and the crew wanted to make more, but were owed more capital if it was continued. The production staff didn't want to make less money or devalue their work, but also both wanted jobs and to continue the show in general. So, because it was still so popular and they did have some pull, they were able to negotiate that it'd be continued as a 'new series' to get around the contract but also had SOME of the restrictions placed upon production removed and to be allowed to use a larger roster of characters (though still not without stipulations, like Joker.)
Productions of shows are complicated and despite there being industry standards we're never going to get a full picture. We only have a name for the 65 Rule because it was an internal policy at Disney, but every network or company has quirky guidelines like that in their productions that we'll never be pertinent to.
Lizzie and Raven were the peak of live-action Disney shows.
YOU GET THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS
he's literally me
> Jason Earles was notably older than the character he played; when the show began, he was a 29-year-old playing a 16-year-old.
Is long hair the best way to look younger?
Doesn't have to be long, just has to frame your face nicely and hide a receded hairline.
>women ruining everything like always
Adventure Time's "Holly Jolly Secrets" was the first episode I can think of where a previously cutesy and mostly-lighthearted cartoon suddenly has sinister undertones revealed. The decline into loreshit for AT, as well as later shows aspiring to do the same, can probably be traced back to this exactly
Loregay shit is fine until it bursts into the forefront and overtakes the original premise of the show. At the time, Holly Jolly Secrets was awesome and daring.
without any irony, are you actually going to tell me that you want a wacky goofy kids show with no continuity? the show is still childish and goofy all the time, but the loreshit also enhances the otherwise seemingly random world and makes adventure time stand out as one of the most unique and interesting worlds in all of animation.
>inb4 but muh one-shot scrimblo bimblos from season 1
are almost entirely untouched by the lore. the great mushroom war and its consequences allow for more emotional depth and expression of interesting ideas than 1-1 representations of pen's napkin drawings.
I can picture Mike Lazzo seething at Hannah Montana beating Samurai Jack on ratings
Samurai Jack ended production years after HM premiered.
Live action shows age like milk, should've stuck with animation
They are cheaper to produce and usually brings higher viewership since they are seen as more mature compared to cartoons.
>they are seen as more mature compared to cartoons
Normie morons
tbf cartoon fans have done no favors in disproving their assumptions
Yes anon, impressionable children and tweens are the ones watching Disney, Nick, and CN.
Is this news to you?
>Live action shows age like milk
Is that why friends is still like one of max's biggest moneymaker and not dexters lab? LOL
Because its what was popular during people's formative years and so they keep rewatching it because they've never grown beyond adolescence?
It's the same reason so many people keep rewatching The Office, and why so many of our generation rewatch Adventure Time.
Watching the same show again is boring.
I'd rather rewatch Regular Show than AT tbh.
Sinestro Corps War. Great story that unfortunately influenced the higher ups and the writers to keep trying to replicate its success with more and more BIG EPIC EVENTS, and the Green Lantern books have been a mess ever since. It took until Morrison's run for there to be standalone space cop adventures again.
>influenced the higher ups and the writers to keep trying to replicate its success with more and more BIG EPIC EVENTS
I'll do you one better
The difference, naturally is that Civil War was shit.
... Also, this bugs me to no end, but this conversation really highlights one of the most fricktarded things about that event. It is not really the responsibility of the heroes to "respond to Stamford", because the Stamford disaster was caused by a fricking SUPERVILLAIN. Civil War goes so far out of its way to actively ignore that the problem is the goddamn criminals who abuse their powers for personal gain. Nitro is the one who blew up the school, not Speedball. Robbie was trying to stop that maniac, yet he gets all the blame. Even for Marvel civvies, that's fricking moronic.
A shame nobody in-universe addressed that and didn't call people the worst possible for all of this.
Who benefits from doing that? Superheroes, and half of them were converted already. The important thing is getting them to punch at each other anyway, not the plot.
Sinestro Corps War was such good shit.
>ICarly
Reminder that Jennette McCurdy thinks ICarly is shit and regrets being in it.
?t=1265
Have you read her biography? Of course she hates everything from that period of her life. The show's producer was basically using her to fuel his fetishes, harvest feet pics from minors, and was probably molesting her on the side.
Even normies know Dan Schneider is a creep at this point.
The fact that he was ousted from Nickelodeon under murky circumstances over half a decade ago and hasn't done anything tells you that he's soft-blacklisted.
What's his name again?
Well that and her mom was real piece of fricking work, a female Joe Jackson that pushed her daughter into acting, like 99.9 percent of shameless Hollywood parents. She was abusive too and would dictate Jeannette's life
Also, this isn't that uncommon, for an actor to resent their role that they are most identified with. It happened with Cheech Marin, who Tommy Chong once said, "was too smart to be playing the stupid Mexican. Ed O'Neill would stop people on the street calling him, "Hey AL!" by saying, "Hey! I have a name."
Also Noah Munch doesn't want anything to do with the show as well. Refused to appear in the reboot. Seems more focused on doing his Sadworld vids instead.
?si=XevZi5m6H4617aRt
Considering that his shtick is that he took his shirt off, I can understand that.
>Also Noah Munch doesn't want anything to do with the show as well. Refused to appear in the reboot. Seems more focused on doing his Sadworld vids instead.
This is really dumb but it honestly makes me sad how much he regrets the role of Gibby, when the character had a really positive effect on my life as a heavyset kid. He was weird and funny and likable and people liked being around him. It made me feel better about my body and made it so I tried to adopt more of the the attitude he had about everything and really made my life better. I was feeling better about myself and being more outgoing, and as an effect; making more friends and being more popular.
Idk man, my family loves iCarly cause my little brother grew up with it and it sucks to see so many people involved with it have all these negative feelings.
In retrospect, Gibby was such a fricking chad.
You should send him an email talking about the positive impact his character had on your life.
Can't blame her, she's not the first and certainly not the last child star to go through horrible misery.
I can understand, even if he got a lot more prominent in later seasons he was still treated as the joke character.
It's really a shame how terrible things were behind the scenes of ICarly, because it was a fun show, and despite how fricked up it was for her, Jennette McCurdy was an integral part of what made that show what it was.
Without her as Carly's side piece the reboot was doomed to failure and I still can't believe they went through with it.
> It's really a shame how terrible things were behind the scenes of ICarly,
Even on the behind the scenes photos they look miserable, like they really didn’t want to be there.
wow. they really tied them up like that? wonder why nobody found out sooner.
this. Sam added the spice the show needed. The only person carrying it now is Freddie
Sorry, Sam was a hugely important character for sure but Harper is great, the only weak link in the reboot is Freddie's kid
It was only mediocre but also the first real sign that Disney was no longer for me
>CN Real
Reminder this was never a thing, there was no cartoon network "dark age" except for 2014-present.
You've been lied to by cartoon Youtubers.
Only 3 CN real shows got more than 6 episodes and one of them was half animated.
It was literally never a big deal or took up any airtime if anything it gave the channel more variety especially since all the shows were so ridiculous and fake sounding they were basically live action cartoons.
nice try, CNReal apologist.
https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/136022155/#136024578
sorry you were too young to be there for it but it was literally a nothingburger.
These homosexuals online definitely try and agenda cartoon history, cn real was a flash in the pan, if they weren't the shows which they attempted to air wouldn't be lost media by now which they basically are. The network was already dead when the live action shit came, and there was no recovery in the 2010's
>CN Real
>Reminder this was never a thing, there was no cartoon network "dark age" except for 2014-present.
This is a cope, people were outraged at the time. 2004-2006 was marked dip from previous years (with some bright spots and outstanding bumpers) and 2007-2009 was a huge low point. The channel recovered in the early 2010s despite the presence of vestigial CN Real shit, before nosediving again in the mid-late 2010s.
CN should have doubled down as THE cartoon channel. Corner the market.
>According to Maxwell Atoms, Hannah Montana being such a huge hit for Disney caused the decline of cartoons and rise of live-action across every network, with CN cancelling their cartoons for CN Real
That jab at High School Musical with My Gym Partner's a Monkey makes much sense
>ANIME SCHOOL MUSICAL
You might think Ed Edd N Eddy and Billy and Mandy would have mocked Disney Channel but nope it was Gym Partner.
I don't think ed edd n eddy really ever parodied any real life thing aside from its episode titles. part of the thing that makes it timeless.
I never watched it but a friend told me that show had a joke about Monica Seles getting stabbed so I'm not surprised.
I could have sworn Billy and Mandy did mock Disney a few times, but it's been such a long time since I watched the show.
EEnE though, the most it did was vague parodies of stuff like James Bond-style spy movies and monster movies
EEnE had class, so it didn't threw shitty jaded tantrums on international TV. BnM on the other hand had Spongebob as lne of the bosses if hell.
Frost and Fire
Can you not? This didn't start any trend, if anything if you wanna complain about Finn suffering romantically that was the culmination of it, not the beginning, since nothing that bad happened to him afterwards.
>nothing that bad happened to him afterwards.
What's breezy
Definitely this, felt like the writers liked torturing Finn way too much after this, it’s the moment where I stopped watching the show
When did they torture him after the Cinnamon Bun episode?
Was the lsp rape episode before or after that one
He grew his arm back in that one though
At the cost of being violated so badly he locked in the vault.
This, he also lost his arm in the first place and discovered his dad was a piece of shit. Also, wasn’t one of the writers being asked by their parents if anything’s wrong and even getting therapist numbers sent to them
These have nothing to do with Frost and Fire
Wasn’t the rape episode about finn going on a bit of a kissing bender because he missed fp? Also, while the dad jail episode didn’t have anything to do with it, it did continue the tradition of torturing finn. There’s also the slime princess episods involving finn’s break up and the tower episode where finn’s getting over his dad ajd the loss of his arm. Seems like a lot of episodes after frost and fire have finn be either shat on or depressed about being shat on, both of which sometimes come together like with the rape grape episode
>character isn't allowed to feel depressed
Man they really shat on Marceline by making her sing all these depressing songs since S2 huh?
Kinda, yeah.
You're hopeless
You're delusional.
I don't have a Pavlovian reaction "Finn suffering bad", I also acknowledge other things happened with him.
She never got raped and outdone by the village idiot, not to mention, felt like there were several episodes in a row where finn was either depressed or abused
I still wonder about how an episode that's composed of not so subtle allegories about being manprostitute and getting a sexual assault by the town's fat ugly b***h was even allowed to air, they must have been thinking that they're oh so clever for getting it past the censors and I bet they didn't expect any kind of backslash by this episode.
I'm glad to see that it still gets shit on to this day.
My sister loved the live action shows. Even now from time to time, she sends me "funny" clips.
This was pretty obvious if you were watching kids shows at the time. Every show from then on had to have some kind of singing jailbait in it. Stuff like Victorious exists only to be watched as clips.
Why did Victoria Justice fail to catch on? Both Ariana Grande and Elizabeth Gillies became more famous than her.
Ariana Grande is a nepo baby and (and probably fricked some producers, let's be real), and VJ isn't.
and Gillies just has better breasts.
Justin should have won. Also, sexual tension was high.
What were they thinking?
Max got completely shafted. Hated how the show always treated him like an afterthought.
If you wanted to suck Max's shota penis, you should have asked.
mfw no quirky wizard shota
The way they handled him reminded me Two and a Half Men. Originally, he was just "child" but them he grew up and the writers had to give him a personality, so they instead just made him an idiot.
Max had a friend, then he vanished.
The arc of his conscience lead to no growth.
Him becoming the only successor lead to nowhere.
Alex and Justin got all the conflicts. He got nothing.
Literally, last episode there was nobody rooting for him that his mom even admitted it.
Max easily could have got an Angel pestering him; or give him a Wizard friend to mess around. He was way less important than Harper and I’d even dare to say Zeke.
anon they were siblings..
and?
Disney was a mistake.
CN manager acknowledged Out of Jimmy's Head
My god, it's the legend himself. I KNEEL! For context, the Emmy is the television equivalent of an Oscar. That fact that he was able to achieve this in the Primetime category...HOLY shit!
>16 years ago
make it stoppp
I remember thinking it was strange the MC got off-brand Disney instead of working with the characters they had. Looking at it as an adult, it was for the best since using Hanna-Barbera or Warner Bros. characters would have damaged their value.
Its still funny how the race of the two friend characters changed between the movie and series
Man I remember watching this because I had a big crush on the friend's sister.
Why didn't the just turn CN City & The PowerHouse Bumpers into shows? Would make much more sense.
I had an unhealthy hatred for live-action disney kidcoms due to them overshadowing the cartoony Disney cartoons (like Dave The Barbarian and Brandy and Mr. Whiskers)
For me, it was That's So Raven
A shame about what happened to Eddie's actor(who also voiced fricking Filmore, kek)
Don't forget Cory.
cory went crazy too?
The entire Fish Hooks gang did. Now he’s Cory In the Big House
Is Fish Hooks any good? The art style looks cute.
No, it wasted the talents of Maxwell Atoms, Tom Warburton and C.H. Greenblatt.
There's one segment where they became human and the girl is very cute. other than that it's nothing to write home about.
one of these things is not like the other
How the hell
It was so corny
Have you ever interacted with or raised tween girls, anon? It would make 10x more sense when you realize Hannah Montana was like the second coming of the Spice Girls to that demographic
High School Musical was similar too. Singing, dancing, happy people in cheesy kids shows, it's hard to be offended by it, which is probably why so many Christgays loved it enough to make that "Sunday School Musical" abomination.
Nah that wasn’t a decline liar, there were still a lot of good cartoons airing at that time
Chowder
Flapjack
The Secret Saturdays
Batman Brave and The Bold
The Clone Wars
Ben 10 Alien Force
The Replacements
Class of 3000
El Tigre
Spectacular SpiderMan
Most of these weren’t even cancelled for live action
Yeah but the live action was on instead of playing these, i just tuned out whenever they put on their live action slop. I wasn't watching CN for live action and nothing they could ever put on was going to change that.
Phineas and Ferb was the only csrtoon they had at the time.
The first two shows listed are leagues better than everything else.
>Cinemaphile has a better Cinemaphile thread than Cinemaphile itself
Many such cases
its like that for any board. whatever the board is supposed to talk about the threads will 80% of the time end up like shit. now, if it's a thread that's off topic and manages to get past the janny's radar, then it can actually end up pretty damn good. better discussion than every social media site combined, actually.
Live action is fricking cancer .
honestly this isn't even hannah montana's fault but warner for putting all childrens tv eggs in one basket, cartoon network, instead of having a kids channel that airs both animation and live action
The origin of Teen Titans Go
This is the reason why it beat all other DC nation shows like Plastic Man and Amethyst, Princess of Gemworld.
One of the last things I watched on Cartoon Network before I aged out of it and just stopped watching TV altogether. I remember seeing that along with the other DC Universe block and thinking "holy shit, new Teen Titans? The gang's back? Please, please, Cartoon Network, bring them back, do anything with them!" even though I was already one foot out of the door of even watching TV cartoons.
Welp. That monkey's finger curled.
Reminder that the tweenybopper shitcom virus also helped kill the anime boom in the US - the original Toonami floundered in the ratings in its last couple of years due to it running the same nights as the TeenNick block. CN tried to redesign the aesthetic in order to appeal more to kids and get their lost ratings back so they ended up scrapping the kino Absolution ship in favor of a PS360 bloomhole on not-Mars and redesigned TOM into this Dreamworks-ass motherfricker
Even as a 9-year-old who didn't care that much for Toonami I thought this shit looked OFF.
Man the tweenybop era is really making me nostalgic right now. I still remember enjoying shows like iCarly, Ned's Declassified, Zoey 101, and even George Lopez despite not being in the same category as the others demographic-wise. It's a shame CN was desperately trying to chase that money maker. It's why I think 2009-2013 aka the CN Real/Check It Era was 2nd worst one in the network's history due to how much live action crap was flooding the channel despite the great cartoons we got like Flapjack, Chowder, TDI, Regular Show, Adventure Time, abd etc. (1st worst is obviously the era we're living in right now)
I blame Naruto’s longass filler episodes for killing Toonami.
Pokemon quite literally almost killed WB's animation department
>What children want ≠ what many animators want
Remember those times when SpongeBob and... The Weekenders beat Pokemon in their timeslots that they actually made headlines?
>Americans autistically resentful of Pearl Harbour so they hate anything Japanese
>SpongeBob beats the anime that threatened their airwaves
Now I see why the suits privileged SpongeBob so much, like how Thebes became the capital of Egypt and its god Amun became the center of the pantheon, all due to how the kings born there expelled the invaders
Shut da frick up, weeb
I don't hate SpongeBob because of liking anime. It's just that I subscribe to any discourse that allow me to badmouth it. I hate it for how it overshadowed any other cartoon in Nickelodeon, whichever ones got canned because of not making SpongeBob numbers. This further led into SpongeBob being the only staple that is wholly remembered from the channel, similar to how many of these tweencoms are "fondly" remembered for the only reason of being what was on, as
may point out.
Also, any of these cashgrabs like The Patrick Show or that Bikini Bottom Baby thing are a further consequence of its success overriding any criteria of decency the suit at nick had.
Whoops meant for
deserved, pokemon was such a stupid show
This show was the equivalent of dropping sulfuric acid on your eyes, probably the worst thing I've ever watched
Bella Thorne was forced to be a Disney star by her toxic parent and was molested by the crew, while Zendeya became an A-list actress with numerous, movie and voice acting roles and is a part of the MCU.
In another reality it's her who becomes MJ
>A-list actress with numerous, movie and voice acting role
Really?
Huh. I would sooner avoid a movie with her in it than be drawn in (that being said, she's such a void for me that I legitimately thought she was only in Spider-man and Dune.)
Thorne is still acting.
I never liked Shake It Up too. This show and the whole schedule of live-action sitcoms were the reason why I stopped watching Disney Channel for the long time.
Thankfully DC is now all animation again with less sitcoms.
Whatever caused Calarts and lore shiows
adventure time or i guess technically flapjack
>calarts
In spirit, Scott Pilgrim
In execution, Flapjack and Adventure Time
>lore shows
Direct result of the anime boom of the 90s. I think at one point, Dragonball Z was the single most watched TV show in America, and Western studios didn't know how to handle it because our norms were that every cartoon absolutely had to be episodic with maybe only 2 or 3-episode multiparters, no exceptions, and yet DBZ had an ongoing story for the entire run of it that you couldn't afford to miss 95% of any of its episodes... yet it was still crushing every other animated show on TV.
However, Western cartoonists are actually extremely traditionalist (in terms of the industry) and old standards die very hard and the "every episode should be a standalone story" mindset couldn't die for tradition and syndication purposes, so instead of shifting straight over to serialized narratives, Westerns tried combining both philosophies, first in 2000s action shows (Justice League, Teen Titans, ATLA, Ben 10, etc.), and then in more comedic shows (AT, SU, Owl House, etc.)
So the result is we get these lore shows that try to kind of copy the serialization of anime without fully committing.
That's moronic, because live action shit has always been a part of Disney (and Nick). It's CN being limited from the onset is its weakness.
Reminder that Jim Samples is the true killer of Cartoon Network. The live action shit was begun under him because he wanted to turn CN into Nickelodeon. Toonami was moved to Saturdays and eventually cancelled and other shows had their schedules fricked with (JLU's last season going on like a six month break after two or three episodes and the entire season airing in Canada before the US for instance) because their audiences skewed older and Samples hated that because he felt only kids should be watching the shows. Snyder continued his policies for a short time until the live action projects ran out their seasons, canned them, and brought in Adventure Time and Regular Show and brought back Toonami. Snyder saved CN from Samples' ineptness and then Miller killed it with her TTGo obsession.
Snyder cancelled Chowder, He can die.
>Quints of vindication
It's funny, at the time people fricking HATED Stuart Snyder. But he actually ended up turning things around and the next president has been the worst ever.
Counterpoint: Snyder was the one who inflicted Hall of Game on us.
I think people would've accepted live action on Cartoon Network if the shows didn't try to ape Disney Channel and Nickelodeon too much, and instead gave them a unique WB experience like a live action DC Comics series for tweens or something.
>and instead gave them a unique WB experience like a live action DC Comics series for tweens or something.
CN tried airing a "baby's first ghost hunting" show in the style of those trashy "if you're in the room, can you give us a sign?" style shows you always found on the Travel Channel and A&E and I hated it all the same because I wanted the colorful Chowder and Ed Edd n Eddy back on
There was a Discon that my late mommy enjoyed watching with me about a ghost buster girl that travelled in a tour bus with her country singer mommy. I wish I could remember the name.
The ghost and Molly McGee
The show was called So Weird.
the cojones on you to say mommy on Cinemaphile and not in a horny way
Remember when they did a Puppet show?
The kid later did young Kingpin in Daredevil so make that what you will.
>Kenan & Kel
>All That
>Are You Afraid of the Dark
>Animorphs
>Space Cases
>That girl the could turn herself into a puddle of silver liquid I forget the name of
>The Amanda Show
>Cousin Skeeter
>99 Deeds Eddy Mcdoubt(I think that's the name)
>That's so Raven
>Bear in a Big Blue House
>Even Steven
>Drake and Josh
Were the only live action shows I watched or cared about as a kid and teen, not counting game shows. All other shows were poop. Honorable mentions from other networks
>Malcolm in the Middle
>Teen Wolf(I think that's the name of it, it was more of a comedy with a teen werewolf saving the day and beating up bad guys)
>This one Drake and Josh clone with 2 friends or brothers or whatever but both were idiots and there was also this little butthole of a little sister. Could never remember the name of it but one of the friend or brother was blond maybe spiky haired
>This one Drake and Josh clone with 2 friends or brothers or whatever but both were idiots and there was also this little butthole of a little sister. Could never remember the name of it but one of the friend or brother was blond maybe spiky haired
Zeke and Luther?
That's it, holy shit. I was pretty sure this was on a different network.
>Zeke and Luther
I remember this actually being legit kino, especially with Cookie from Ned’s Declassified as the butthole frenemy.
>Cookie from Ned’s Declassified as the butthole frenemy
This I have to see.
Fun Fact: the creators of Hailey's on it! worked on Zeke and Luther.
What a downgrade
Holy shit it's them! Our HEROES
>That girl the could turn herself into a puddle of silver liquid I forget the name of
The Secret World of Alex Mack?
That's the one, I remember she went naked in 1 episode.
That reminded me, she really was getting powerful as frick as the show went on. Man even as a kid I could understand how OP she was.
>Animorphs
Why? I mean I respect that they tried but there was no way they were ever doing those books justice in live action on a kids TV show budget with kids TV restrictions
She had telekinesis and electrokinesis, too. If not for the budget and the show avoiding the typical superhero tropes, Alex could easily have grown to be an unstoppable force.
>MFW the closest Alex Mack ever got to being Cinemaphile is a one-off commercial.
She was rejected from Nick Brawl
And that's a Cinemaphile topic.
>malcolm in the middle
has the most goofiest gags and the weirdest scenarios for a show grounded in reality.
>ned's declassified school guide
im sad nobod y had mention this it has so much soul the cast were so diverse and yet there all likable even the stereotype bully had a heart
Atoms is a perpetual b***h.
As a kid I thought Hannah Montana was an atrocity and I'm glad to be yet again correct. Maxwell deserved better
always funny when there's a lot of replies.
SOMETIMES I WALK
another reason women shouldn't have rights
Remember when they had Fred on the show? He was the biggest YouTuber at the time.
Remember when they made a whole Fred show for some reason?
> for some reason?
He had a whole ass trilogy and a different show as well (Marvin Marvin). All of which were panned.
>Cena in two of his movies
What the frick?
Cena was in all his movies. It was a running joke that Cena was what Fred imagined his dad to be like.
Honestly the movies were terrible because they couldn't do the chipmunk voice and watching Fred do his skits without the chipmunk voice just made it really awkward. They're like the most generic middle school movie plots you'll ever see, I do not recommend them.
Even the guy who played Fred hates the character and movies.
>patient zero
I know what you're getting at but there has to be a better analogy for Cinemaphilemrades. This would apply better to video games. Cinemaphile is not a medium that changes over time.
In b4 "StOp gAtEKeEpInG"
What do you mean? Techniques, copying styles that are popular, and others change over time. There is no such thing as a static medium so long as new people work in it.
Execs being jealous of the live action shows is honestly what brought the downfall of the station. If they didn't greenlight terrible shows like Squirrel Boy, kept away from anything live action, and only greenlit high quality cartoons we wouldn't have gotten where we're at today.
Lol thank god we latin american had RBD, which had the best semen demons in skimpy outfits and lots of girls to choose, also a top tier milf. The stories were more adult like too with teenage pregnancy and shit
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>Tan blonde wearing a school uniform
huh