That's not something to be proud of anon. Trolling, joking, baiting, or whatever else asid. Do consider that what are you are saying a very sad and pitiful thing.
It's overrated as a film, but this is a garbage take. At no point is it not a toy commercial with pants on, and it hammers it perfectly. I loved the camp.
This just shows how absolutely completely dishonest and truly without any kind of integrity this pedo truly is.
Since in "his" GotG Nova aren't Green Lantern esque team but just lame nobody with blasters, in Double his GotG 2 (he wrote it completely) the main storyline stolen from Futurama and Jerry Siegel's The Starling while the Fricking Star-Lord turns out to be a FRICKING EGO THE LIVING PLANET'S SON ARE YOU INSANE ARE YOU FRICKING moronic STUPID b***h?!
For any of gunn-enthusiasts posers and wannabes imagine if fricking Batman turned out to be a son of A FRICKING Anti-life Equation or of Fricking Mogo (the Planet - Green Lantern)
Meanwhile in comics , especially in ones that pedophile absolutely "loves" like Killing Joke The Joker's origin is completely COMPLETELY ambiguous and he could be anyone, and Yes, in Later origins of Batman he uncovered Joe Chill and took revenge. bit in very first origin killer is actually never stated, anyone could be, even fricking powerless Superman under red kryptonite who accidentally traveled back in time and red kryptonite made him powerless killer of parents for 24 hours.
Gunn is one of those on the first list to be transformed into eco-friendly bio-fuel. Along with current Bendis, Tom King and list goes on don't you worry, Africa will have free energy soon.
I think it's not nearly as good as people claim it is, but it's not the piece of shit james gunn says it is here either. He sounds upset about something else 2bh
I can understand having gripes with everything else (the writing is really simplistic since it's a literal children's movie from 34 years ago, it is extremely campy though I'm not sure why he thinks it "pretends it doesn't", Nicholson infamously didn't even want to do Joker and just phoned it in )... But what the frick is his problem with Danny Elfman's score? Is it because Elfman was a right-wing butthole in the 80s?
I don't agree but miss when artists didn't have PR people vetting everything they said and actually talked a bit of shit openly about each other. Like how the original writer of Universal's Mummy movie wrote an open letter to Time Magazine about what an abortion she thought the Hammer remake was.
>Thank you for the April 6 exposé of the horror motion pictures that are currently being made in England at the Hammer studios. Without this review I might not have known that my story, The Mummy, was being remade in a debased form. This story, as originally written by me, was a perfectly clean and decent archaeological "chiller," which I wrote expressly for Boris Karloff. This disgusting English remake was done without my knowledge or consent, and it has been a terrible shock, at the age of 75, to find such a work attributed to me, however wrongly and by indirection.
it's a movie about a guy whose parents are murdered so he grows up to be an alcoholic, then runs off to join a ninja clan only to leave when he realizes the secret society he's joined are criminals, who SOMEHOW haven't realized they have a missing billionaire in their midst they could just steal every penny from or at least ransom
it's a story about a guy who goes to the magical city of Shangri-La to become enlightened and ends up being SO ENLIGHTENED that he stops a psychiatrist from poisoning the city with hallucinogens and second degree murders his ninja master by pushing him off a high speed train that passes through entire buildings (which we never see again)
The Dark Knight?
clown bank robber out of nowhere becomes crime boss of all mafia in the city and - get this - they don't just kill him, meanwhile the local DA takes a wound that would kill him in minutes and survives for days, becoming a coin-tossing lunatic supercriminal in the process, while Batman chases down the clown using everybody's cellphones because he has a magic bat-computer and no concerns about civil liberties or the ethics of spying on literally everybody like a gritty, real-world movie would and the Magical Black who guides him says it's wrong but also explains to Billionaire Ninjaman that it's possible and, get this, that Billionaire Ninjacorp already built the damn thing years ago and left it assembled and hooked up and able to adapt to every software change since
gay af
The Dark Knight Rises?
a movie within a movie to sell IMAX filmstock that the director had just heavily invested in to other directors - who all said "pass" when they saw the finished product - has to justify its cost to the studio so the characters are reused in the main story, despite being fricking preposterous from the plane-on-a-wire sequence to the bomb-on-a-wire sequence where a neutron bomb doesn't kill ANYBODY
bro how can you say batman 89 is pretending NOT to be camp. a guy called jackanape becomes a guy called the joker who kills people with hand buzzers. his enemy is a rubber bat. james gunn is a moron
He's a little overly cynical about it but he's not wrong. Joker being the guy that kills the Waynes isn't a good twist, Batman CAN'T move his neck, and those movies ARE campy as frick.
It's almost like that movie wants to simplify the story and character relations to fit a 90 minutes runtime. Now tell us about all the simplifications and changes in 120 minutes+ GotG films.
>It's almost like that movie wants to simplify the story and character relations to fit a 90 minutes runtime.
Batman 89 is 2 hours and 6 minutes, not 90.
And for the record Batman Begins which is only 14 minutes longer at 2:20, kept the Joe Chill origin.
But yeah that time saved was totally worth such a major change you're right. Fourteen more minutes would've been too much.
>and those movies ARE campy as frick.
I think it's weird, because I watched Batman '89 in theaters when it came out, and even then I knew it was supposed to be campy. They weren't trying to abandon the Adam West Batman - just darken it up a bit for modern audiences who'd expect more for a movie. Total camp abandonment would be TDKR.
he said it was the weakest work of Prince and Elfman, not that they were bad-- though while it's middling for Prince, Elfman killed it on this soundtrack- I have no idea what he was smoking when he was dissing Elfman's Batman theme, come on.
I can hear the Elfman song and know it's from Batman which I can't really say the same about most of the newer Superhero movies.
Maybe that weird Wonder Woman theme just because it sounds so odd.
It's weird they stuck to that music for Wonder Woman since it's pretty clear Zimmer never intended it to be her "theme" like how Superman and Batman have recurring notes, it's just battle music
So now it sticks out like a sore thumb whenever she pops out randomly as in Shazam 2 and The Flash
Also the theme keeps playing when Gadot is watching all the Justice League videos, not just looking at her photo, so it's not really "her theme", maybe it was intended to be more of a JL theme with the Doomsday fight team up being the origin of that
>Maybe that weird Wonder Woman theme just because it sounds so odd.
It took me three movies to realize that was her theme and not just "action music from BvS"
Elfman's work in Returns is vastly superior to his work in the 89 movie. There's a lot more personality to it.
The music set to Selina Kyle'stransformation and freakout, Penguin publicly visiting the graves of his parents, the ending that cuts into the credits. Sioxsie and the Banshees "Face to Face"
Here's what I will give to 89: "Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?" is a fun bit of writing.
Maybe they are but Returns is just so overwrought but at the same time playful (Batman vs The Circus for example) It's almost bi-polar and yet it works perfectly. I went and skimmed through the soundtrack again to pick my favorite tracks:
Birth of a Penguin I & II
The Lair I & II
Selina Transforms I & II
The Cematary
The opening bit to The Final Confrontation Part I (Speech to the Penguins)
The Finale I & II leading into the End Credits
I can hear the Elfman song and know it's from Batman which I can't really say the same about most of the newer Superhero movies.
Maybe that weird Wonder Woman theme just because it sounds so odd.
Elfman's work in Returns is vastly superior to his work in the 89 movie. There's a lot more personality to it.
The music set to Selina Kyle'stransformation and freakout, Penguin publicly visiting the graves of his parents, the ending that cuts into the credits. Sioxsie and the Banshees "Face to Face"
Elfman wasn't happy with the sound mixing on the score for the first Batman in the film, really poorly mixed in the actual film, you can't even hear the choir in 'Descent into Mystery' in the actual film, so Gunn's right about that if that's part of his angle.
The score sounds incredible on the isolated score soundtrack though.
he said it was the weakest work of Prince and Elfman, not that they were bad-- though while it's middling for Prince, Elfman killed it on this soundtrack- I have no idea what he was smoking when he was dissing Elfman's Batman theme, come on.
I love this movie for many reasons but it's not actually that "good," really. The set design is incredible, it has classic stuff in it and Jack's great but the script is really weak. Really interesting set up, then the Joker comes on the scene and walks away with the movie just memeing. Which is incredibly engaging and hilarious and Jack's having a blast and us along with it, but things just happen in succesion, there's no real heart in the storytelling.
>Jack vs Bruce (kills parents) >Jack vs Batman (falls into chemicals) >Joker vs Bruce (shoots him at Vicki's apartment) >Joker vs Batman (in the church at the end)
Its poetry...it rhymes
>Posts from 13 years ago >Opinions don't change
That said, I don't really care about Batman 89 and I never have. For me, it was always Batman Returns.
>James Gunn on Batman Returns: >"I think it's messy but it's better and more fun than 89"
I would definitely agree to this. I love Returns but it can be messy and the movie really wants to skip the fight scenes or finish with them as fast as possible because that isn't what Burton is interested in.
>the soundtrack is the worst work of everyone involved
Would he have liked the soundtrack if it consisted of nothing but 80+ songs that he liked when he was a teenager?
Why are you acting like the prince soundtrack isn't something that's been mocked for decades? The main theme for Batman is great but everything do e by Prince is his worst work.
Yeah, valid criticisms, but considering it came after a 30 year drought of Batman films, it filled a niche.
If only all superhero films had the good sense to lay silent for a few decades between installments.
Just comes across as bitter and jealous.
Nothing will capture the world’s attention like that movie did ever again, certainly nothing Gunn is involved with.
t. witnessed Batmania
The biggest problem with Batman '89 is that Sam Hamm didn't finish his script, the 1988 WGA Strike started when he was halfway through writing and it shows, Burton, Keaton and Nicholson basically had to make up the movie scene-to-scene after Batman cracks Joker's Smilex, you can tell from the scene with Bruce and Joker at Vicky's apartment they were just making it up as they went, and that includes the revelation a young Jack Napier killed the Waynes (Sam Hamm has repeatedly said he didn't write that and it was added after the strike started).
Right? What a bizarre scene. They could've just gotten a whole Police raid instead with gas masks and the like. No reason to blow it up because the gas is already going to the parade at that point, and Batman was aiming to take Joker in.
Truth is I just think they did the exploding set/ Batmoile driving effects and it was a way to wrap up that plotpoint in a dynamic way even if it's a complete overdo.
>No reason to blow it up because the gas is already going to the parade at that point
But Bruce doesn't know that at the time. He goes to destroy the factory and its poisons along with Joker himself, before realizing that Joker had already evacuated as he flies off in a garishly decorated chopper mocking Bats.
"Here were Jack Nicholson and Kim Basinger walking up this cathedral, and halfway up Jack turns around and says, 'Why am I walking up all these stairs? Where am I going?' 'We'll talk about it when you get to the top!' I had to tell him that I didn't know".
No. Tim Burton's Batman's are still one of my favorites and pretty damn good for the era. He tried to make them serious and adult and they still hold up well. They're also highly stylized and gothy, which makes them unique to this day. Still has one of the best Catwoman.
Nicholson's Joker is alright because Jack is playing it up and he has good lines but his motivations are against the norm for Joker nowadays.
He's more jealous of Batman's notoriety than liking him.
He wants to frick Vicki Vale
He also had proto Harley Quinn (I watched 89 as a kid thinking it was supposed to be Harley, not realizing Harley came later) but killed her cuz unnnnngh Vicki Vale.
It's old school Joker motivation for him to want to out-flair everyone else and make sure the public is focused on him. I find no fault in them going with that when writers were only recently starting to make him Batman's shoulder devil.
I have a lot of nostalgia for Batman '89 and enjoy re-watches from time-to-time but I can't deny it has a lot of problems (the half-finished script, the Prince songs forced in their to legitimize a tie-in album), but I do still think Burton "got" Bruce/Batman's characterization and nuances of the dual-identity that The Batman really didn't understand.
Batman Returns is a much better movie, and Burton clearly understood that Batman's villains are a meta-commentary on Bruce's duality and explored that with Selina/Catowoman, Oswald/Penguin and Max Schrek.
>poorly written
Its simple and has cool moments and visuals to bolster it. It's not bad. The Joker killer twist is cheap, but it doesn't drag down the film either. > the soundtrack is the worst work of everyone involved
Not even close to true and the main theme and ending crescendo is maybe some of Elfman's best work >It pretends to not be campy, but is completely so
Burton fully knows how campy he's making it and it was still eye-opening at the time for not being Adam West-level. >Batman can't move his neck
so?
Of course none of this matters now for Gunn because the Keaton push came and went and did dick all.
>Of course none of this matters now for Gunn because the Keaton push came and went and did dick all.
I was hyped for his return in The Flash when it became know...Three years ago. The film failed because they delayed the movie too many times and killed any hype it had. Oh and Ezra Miller being a pest, too.
they've known he was insane since 2020, could have recast him after his sperg-out in Iceland April 2020 but didn't, and filming didn't start until an entire year later April 2021
There was no sperg out. All Ezra allegations are made up.
He Is looney troon they/themer yeah, but violent episodes never actually happened.
That being sad, if Ezra was not troon yid but was average white guy he would be kicked out. At the same time I feel no sympathy to the guys like Delia since he is lib. Incels win once again. https://youtu.be/5G-pL495pt0?t=95
Gunn has been public that he was molested as a kid.
>10) Monsignor Russell J. Obmann, the pastor at my grade school, St. Joseph’s in Manchester, Missouri, who gave the young boys in my class alcohol and showed them porn, and probably other stuff as well. He was later caught having sex with a male student, but was only reprimanded by the Catholic Church. Now he’s dead.
>11) The fact that we all told our parents that Russell J. Obmann was doing this shit, but they thought we were being silly and making up stories because he was a dick even outside of being a child molestor.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Obmann
usual suspects
Yeah he beat me to it: [...]
Ezra apparently came clean to some guy in Hawaii about all of it
https://nypost.com/2023/06/17/how-flash-star-ezra-miller-went-from-enemy-1-to-hero/ >A former partner of Ana Rosa’s, who was also living in Hawaii, said that he initially liked Miller when he first met them. The man said Miller was in bad shape when he met them and that the actor blamed Hollywood for their troubles. >“Ezra told me a lot of what people did in Hollywood to [them] when [they were] young. They really messed [the actor] up,” the man said. “[They were] really looking for help.”
>them and that the actor blamed Hollywood for their troubles. > [them] >[they were] >[They were]
8 months ago
Anonymous
so hard to make sense of it when there's so many people in the story, just say a damn name instead
8 months ago
Anonymous
yes
8 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah he beat me to it:
Gunn has been public that he was molested as a kid.
>10) Monsignor Russell J. Obmann, the pastor at my grade school, St. Joseph’s in Manchester, Missouri, who gave the young boys in my class alcohol and showed them porn, and probably other stuff as well. He was later caught having sex with a male student, but was only reprimanded by the Catholic Church. Now he’s dead.
>11) The fact that we all told our parents that Russell J. Obmann was doing this shit, but they thought we were being silly and making up stories because he was a dick even outside of being a child molestor.
Ezra apparently came clean to some guy in Hawaii about all of it
https://nypost.com/2023/06/17/how-flash-star-ezra-miller-went-from-enemy-1-to-hero/ >A former partner of Ana Rosa’s, who was also living in Hawaii, said that he initially liked Miller when he first met them. The man said Miller was in bad shape when he met them and that the actor blamed Hollywood for their troubles. >“Ezra told me a lot of what people did in Hollywood to [them] when [they were] young. They really messed [the actor] up,” the man said. “[They were] really looking for help.”
>Of course none of this matters now for Gunn because the Keaton push came and went and did dick all.
Well no it may matter in two different ways >People blaming Gunn for The Flash
This I find actually mostly unfair to him as most of the greenlighting and work on Flash was done before he had control of DC films. The only thing you could blame him for is the Clooney ending. But I think we'll end up seeing more people continue to blame him for Flash. >higher expectations for Brave and the Bold
I think people now want to know if this will be better than Burton's and Nolan's Batman films or not. Even though he's not directing it, this would be a Batman film done under his watch.
he's got a lot to say but not a lot of substance. like shitty HOW? why are those things bad?
i bet he'd get flustered if you pressed him because this seems like him just throwing out gut feelings
he can say batman 89 is bad all day but until he elaborates all that anyone can say is "ok". maybe he thinks its bad because the theater seats were uncomfortable? or maybe jack nicholson took his girl at prom night? we will never know.
What Gunn probably meams is that Batman shouldn't be able to find a criminal who killed his parents because it's a completely random person, which symbolizes that Batman's character is driven by eternal desire for vengeance against crime, which he csn never fully stop. I guess Gunn thinks that after Batman finds his parents' killer, he doesn't have such a strong motivation to continue anymore?
I'm old enough to remember the huge controversy when Michael Keaton was chosen to play Batman. At that point in time he was almost solely known for romantic comedies
post archived links.
>caring about opinions from 11 years ago
As if your takes were any better back then
My opinions haven’t changed since then, they’ve only been reinforced.
This. Only a brainlet allows his opinions to grow and change over the years. Stake out your positions as a young person and stick to them.
That's not something to be proud of anon. Trolling, joking, baiting, or whatever else asid. Do consider that what are you are saying a very sad and pitiful thing.
It's overrated as a film, but this is a garbage take. At no point is it not a toy commercial with pants on, and it hammers it perfectly. I loved the camp.
It's overrated for sure but hating on the soundtrack and Nicholson's Joker goes too far.
This just shows how absolutely completely dishonest and truly without any kind of integrity this pedo truly is.
Since in "his" GotG Nova aren't Green Lantern esque team but just lame nobody with blasters, in Double his GotG 2 (he wrote it completely) the main storyline stolen from Futurama and Jerry Siegel's The Starling while the Fricking Star-Lord turns out to be a FRICKING EGO THE LIVING PLANET'S SON ARE YOU INSANE ARE YOU FRICKING moronic STUPID b***h?!
For any of gunn-enthusiasts posers and wannabes imagine if fricking Batman turned out to be a son of A FRICKING Anti-life Equation or of Fricking Mogo (the Planet - Green Lantern)
Meanwhile in comics , especially in ones that pedophile absolutely "loves" like Killing Joke The Joker's origin is completely COMPLETELY ambiguous and he could be anyone, and Yes, in Later origins of Batman he uncovered Joe Chill and took revenge. bit in very first origin killer is actually never stated, anyone could be, even fricking powerless Superman under red kryptonite who accidentally traveled back in time and red kryptonite made him powerless killer of parents for 24 hours.
Gunn is one of those on the first list to be transformed into eco-friendly bio-fuel. Along with current Bendis, Tom King and list goes on don't you worry, Africa will have free energy soon.
I think it's not nearly as good as people claim it is, but it's not the piece of shit james gunn says it is here either. He sounds upset about something else 2bh
You don't frick with Batman, and Flash fricked with batman.
And the movie was a bomb.
I can understand having gripes with everything else (the writing is really simplistic since it's a literal children's movie from 34 years ago, it is extremely campy though I'm not sure why he thinks it "pretends it doesn't", Nicholson infamously didn't even want to do Joker and just phoned it in )... But what the frick is his problem with Danny Elfman's score? Is it because Elfman was a right-wing butthole in the 80s?
And this mean has the keys to the DCU… Jesus Christ
Man who's known for making B level trash
I don't agree but miss when artists didn't have PR people vetting everything they said and actually talked a bit of shit openly about each other. Like how the original writer of Universal's Mummy movie wrote an open letter to Time Magazine about what an abortion she thought the Hammer remake was.
what did she say?
>Thank you for the April 6 exposé of the horror motion pictures that are currently being made in England at the Hammer studios. Without this review I might not have known that my story, The Mummy, was being remade in a debased form. This story, as originally written by me, was a perfectly clean and decent archaeological "chiller," which I wrote expressly for Boris Karloff. This disgusting English remake was done without my knowledge or consent, and it has been a terrible shock, at the age of 75, to find such a work attributed to me, however wrongly and by indirection.
>It pretends not to be camp
This is the only point I have any major contention with. Everything else is 100% fair.
all Batman movies pretend not to be camp
Batman Begins? campy as frick, full of quips
it's a movie about a guy whose parents are murdered so he grows up to be an alcoholic, then runs off to join a ninja clan only to leave when he realizes the secret society he's joined are criminals, who SOMEHOW haven't realized they have a missing billionaire in their midst they could just steal every penny from or at least ransom
it's a story about a guy who goes to the magical city of Shangri-La to become enlightened and ends up being SO ENLIGHTENED that he stops a psychiatrist from poisoning the city with hallucinogens and second degree murders his ninja master by pushing him off a high speed train that passes through entire buildings (which we never see again)
The Dark Knight?
clown bank robber out of nowhere becomes crime boss of all mafia in the city and - get this - they don't just kill him, meanwhile the local DA takes a wound that would kill him in minutes and survives for days, becoming a coin-tossing lunatic supercriminal in the process, while Batman chases down the clown using everybody's cellphones because he has a magic bat-computer and no concerns about civil liberties or the ethics of spying on literally everybody like a gritty, real-world movie would and the Magical Black who guides him says it's wrong but also explains to Billionaire Ninjaman that it's possible and, get this, that Billionaire Ninjacorp already built the damn thing years ago and left it assembled and hooked up and able to adapt to every software change since
gay af
The Dark Knight Rises?
a movie within a movie to sell IMAX filmstock that the director had just heavily invested in to other directors - who all said "pass" when they saw the finished product - has to justify its cost to the studio so the characters are reused in the main story, despite being fricking preposterous from the plane-on-a-wire sequence to the bomb-on-a-wire sequence where a neutron bomb doesn't kill ANYBODY
even the new one?
It's all context, yes you could still read it as campy, but at the time people were struck by how much more serious it was
bro how can you say batman 89 is pretending NOT to be camp. a guy called jackanape becomes a guy called the joker who kills people with hand buzzers. his enemy is a rubber bat. james gunn is a moron
He also sorta shit on the nolan stuff. Anyway lot a pressure on Brave and the Bold now James. Don't let Muschietti frick it up.
He's a little overly cynical about it but he's not wrong. Joker being the guy that kills the Waynes isn't a good twist, Batman CAN'T move his neck, and those movies ARE campy as frick.
It's almost like that movie wants to simplify the story and character relations to fit a 90 minutes runtime. Now tell us about all the simplifications and changes in 120 minutes+ GotG films.
Kys
>It's almost like that movie wants to simplify the story and character relations to fit a 90 minutes runtime.
Batman 89 is 2 hours and 6 minutes, not 90.
And for the record Batman Begins which is only 14 minutes longer at 2:20, kept the Joe Chill origin.
But yeah that time saved was totally worth such a major change you're right. Fourteen more minutes would've been too much.
>and those movies ARE campy as frick.
I think it's weird, because I watched Batman '89 in theaters when it came out, and even then I knew it was supposed to be campy. They weren't trying to abandon the Adam West Batman - just darken it up a bit for modern audiences who'd expect more for a movie. Total camp abandonment would be TDKR.
>dissing the soundtrack
Frick you in the name of Prince.
he said it was the weakest work of Prince and Elfman, not that they were bad-- though while it's middling for Prince, Elfman killed it on this soundtrack- I have no idea what he was smoking when he was dissing Elfman's Batman theme, come on.
Yeah it's a bold claim considering some of the absolute garbage Prince shat out in the '90s and '00s.
I can hear the Elfman song and know it's from Batman which I can't really say the same about most of the newer Superhero movies.
Maybe that weird Wonder Woman theme just because it sounds so odd.
It's weird they stuck to that music for Wonder Woman since it's pretty clear Zimmer never intended it to be her "theme" like how Superman and Batman have recurring notes, it's just battle music
So now it sticks out like a sore thumb whenever she pops out randomly as in Shazam 2 and The Flash
Also the theme keeps playing when Gadot is watching all the Justice League videos, not just looking at her photo, so it's not really "her theme", maybe it was intended to be more of a JL theme with the Doomsday fight team up being the origin of that
>Maybe that weird Wonder Woman theme just because it sounds so odd.
It took me three movies to realize that was her theme and not just "action music from BvS"
Elfman's work in Returns is vastly superior to his work in the 89 movie. There's a lot more personality to it.
The music set to Selina Kyle'stransformation and freakout, Penguin publicly visiting the graves of his parents, the ending that cuts into the credits. Sioxsie and the Banshees "Face to Face"
Waltz to the death and Descent into Mystery are both iconic pieces though
Here's what I will give to 89: "Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?" is a fun bit of writing.
Maybe they are but Returns is just so overwrought but at the same time playful (Batman vs The Circus for example) It's almost bi-polar and yet it works perfectly. I went and skimmed through the soundtrack again to pick my favorite tracks:
Birth of a Penguin I & II
The Lair I & II
Selina Transforms I & II
The Cematary
The opening bit to The Final Confrontation Part I (Speech to the Penguins)
The Finale I & II leading into the End Credits
Elfman wasn't happy with the sound mixing on the score for the first Batman in the film, really poorly mixed in the actual film, you can't even hear the choir in 'Descent into Mystery' in the actual film, so Gunn's right about that if that's part of his angle.
The score sounds incredible on the isolated score soundtrack though.
Should've used Taylor Dane instead of Prince.
Was Burton Batman perfect? No.
Does that mean the current Batman movies are good? No.
I love this movie for many reasons but it's not actually that "good," really. The set design is incredible, it has classic stuff in it and Jack's great but the script is really weak. Really interesting set up, then the Joker comes on the scene and walks away with the movie just memeing. Which is incredibly engaging and hilarious and Jack's having a blast and us along with it, but things just happen in succesion, there's no real heart in the storytelling.
He's right about the neck thing
wrong about everything else.
>Jack vs Bruce (kills parents)
>Jack vs Batman (falls into chemicals)
>Joker vs Bruce (shoots him at Vicki's apartment)
>Joker vs Batman (in the church at the end)
Its poetry...it rhymes
Burton is a bad director
and still a million times better than hack gunn
You're trying too hard, it's not coming off as natural
>Posts from 13 years ago
>Opinions don't change
That said, I don't really care about Batman 89 and I never have. For me, it was always Batman Returns.
>James Gunn on Batman Returns:
>"I think it's messy but it's better and more fun than 89"
I would definitely agree to this. I love Returns but it can be messy and the movie really wants to skip the fight scenes or finish with them as fast as possible because that isn't what Burton is interested in.
Yep, upon a recent rewatch of the two Returns is easily superior. Burton's way more into it and it comes across.
>the soundtrack is the worst work of everyone involved
Would he have liked the soundtrack if it consisted of nothing but 80+ songs that he liked when he was a teenager?
Why are you acting like the prince soundtrack isn't something that's been mocked for decades? The main theme for Batman is great but everything do e by Prince is his worst work.
Yeah, valid criticisms, but considering it came after a 30 year drought of Batman films, it filled a niche.
If only all superhero films had the good sense to lay silent for a few decades between installments.
so is this actually him or is this just some fake facebook page?
Just comes across as bitter and jealous.
Nothing will capture the world’s attention like that movie did ever again, certainly nothing Gunn is involved with.
t. witnessed Batmania
>Nothing will capture the world’s attention like that movie did ever again
The Dark Knight and The Avengers already did and then some.
It saddens me that a zoomer could actually believe this
All glory is fleeting
It’s true whether you like it or not boomer.
No, only SnyderVerse is comparable (and actually more hyped)
Not even close, not even in the same stratosphere. You truly had to be there.
What's his take on The Dark Knight because that's the one Nolan movie I really like out of that trilogy particularly for Two Face
Burton's Batman films have far more soul and artistic merit than Gunn's reddit films
The biggest problem with Batman '89 is that Sam Hamm didn't finish his script, the 1988 WGA Strike started when he was halfway through writing and it shows, Burton, Keaton and Nicholson basically had to make up the movie scene-to-scene after Batman cracks Joker's Smilex, you can tell from the scene with Bruce and Joker at Vicky's apartment they were just making it up as they went, and that includes the revelation a young Jack Napier killed the Waynes (Sam Hamm has repeatedly said he didn't write that and it was added after the strike started).
I love 89 but everytime I rewatch it I get whiplash from how fast it goes in the last half, it just sort of collapses
The last time I watched it, I completely forgot he drives in to Joker's factory, blows the entire place to hell with the people inside and leaves.
He doesn't even get out of the frickin car.
Right? What a bizarre scene. They could've just gotten a whole Police raid instead with gas masks and the like. No reason to blow it up because the gas is already going to the parade at that point, and Batman was aiming to take Joker in.
Truth is I just think they did the exploding set/ Batmoile driving effects and it was a way to wrap up that plotpoint in a dynamic way even if it's a complete overdo.
>No reason to blow it up because the gas is already going to the parade at that point
But Bruce doesn't know that at the time. He goes to destroy the factory and its poisons along with Joker himself, before realizing that Joker had already evacuated as he flies off in a garishly decorated chopper mocking Bats.
"Here were Jack Nicholson and Kim Basinger walking up this cathedral, and halfway up Jack turns around and says, 'Why am I walking up all these stairs? Where am I going?' 'We'll talk about it when you get to the top!' I had to tell him that I didn't know".
Well at this point it’s pretty damn obvious that these WGA strikes are responsible for everything wrong with the movie industry after the 80s.
No. Tim Burton's Batman's are still one of my favorites and pretty damn good for the era. He tried to make them serious and adult and they still hold up well. They're also highly stylized and gothy, which makes them unique to this day. Still has one of the best Catwoman.
Nicholson's Joker is alright because Jack is playing it up and he has good lines but his motivations are against the norm for Joker nowadays.
He's more jealous of Batman's notoriety than liking him.
He wants to frick Vicki Vale
He also had proto Harley Quinn (I watched 89 as a kid thinking it was supposed to be Harley, not realizing Harley came later) but killed her cuz unnnnngh Vicki Vale.
It's old school Joker motivation for him to want to out-flair everyone else and make sure the public is focused on him. I find no fault in them going with that when writers were only recently starting to make him Batman's shoulder devil.
>cuz unnnnngh Vicki Vale.
Can't really blame him tbh, Kim Basinger is pretty hot in this one
Anon, who didn't want to frick Samus Aran at her peak?
Batman Did
I have a lot of nostalgia for Batman '89 and enjoy re-watches from time-to-time but I can't deny it has a lot of problems (the half-finished script, the Prince songs forced in their to legitimize a tie-in album), but I do still think Burton "got" Bruce/Batman's characterization and nuances of the dual-identity that The Batman really didn't understand.
Batman Returns is a much better movie, and Burton clearly understood that Batman's villains are a meta-commentary on Bruce's duality and explored that with Selina/Catowoman, Oswald/Penguin and Max Schrek.
Batman Returns is a better film because of how anti semitic it was
How can you possibly claim the Batman stuff is the worst material Prince ever put out
the frick? is Gunn shittalking Prince? I don't know if I can forgive him if he is
>Prefers his own movie to TDK
around the same time "he was only joking about" raping boys
And attending NAMBLA meetings where he's getting buttfricked by Lloyd Kaufman
And he's right.
half good takes and half awfulls one
the joker part are 100%right
>poorly written
Its simple and has cool moments and visuals to bolster it. It's not bad. The Joker killer twist is cheap, but it doesn't drag down the film either.
> the soundtrack is the worst work of everyone involved
Not even close to true and the main theme and ending crescendo is maybe some of Elfman's best work
>It pretends to not be campy, but is completely so
Burton fully knows how campy he's making it and it was still eye-opening at the time for not being Adam West-level.
>Batman can't move his neck
so?
Of course none of this matters now for Gunn because the Keaton push came and went and did dick all.
>Of course none of this matters now for Gunn because the Keaton push came and went and did dick all.
I was hyped for his return in The Flash when it became know...Three years ago. The film failed because they delayed the movie too many times and killed any hype it had. Oh and Ezra Miller being a pest, too.
Ezra is ultimately 100% warner's fault
they've known he was insane since 2020, could have recast him after his sperg-out in Iceland April 2020 but didn't, and filming didn't start until an entire year later April 2021
There was no sperg out. All Ezra allegations are made up.
He Is looney troon they/themer yeah, but violent episodes never actually happened.
That being sad, if Ezra was not troon yid but was average white guy he would be kicked out. At the same time I feel no sympathy to the guys like Delia since he is lib. Incels win once again. https://youtu.be/5G-pL495pt0?t=95
he was also obviously molested as a teen
Who Ezra or Gunn. Yeah , very very possibly
Gunn has been public that he was molested as a kid.
>10) Monsignor Russell J. Obmann, the pastor at my grade school, St. Joseph’s in Manchester, Missouri, who gave the young boys in my class alcohol and showed them porn, and probably other stuff as well. He was later caught having sex with a male student, but was only reprimanded by the Catholic Church. Now he’s dead.
>11) The fact that we all told our parents that Russell J. Obmann was doing this shit, but they thought we were being silly and making up stories because he was a dick even outside of being a child molestor.
>Obmann
usual suspects
>them and that the actor blamed Hollywood for their troubles.
> [them]
>[they were]
>[They were]
so hard to make sense of it when there's so many people in the story, just say a damn name instead
yes
Yeah he beat me to it:
Ezra apparently came clean to some guy in Hawaii about all of it
https://nypost.com/2023/06/17/how-flash-star-ezra-miller-went-from-enemy-1-to-hero/
>A former partner of Ana Rosa’s, who was also living in Hawaii, said that he initially liked Miller when he first met them. The man said Miller was in bad shape when he met them and that the actor blamed Hollywood for their troubles.
>“Ezra told me a lot of what people did in Hollywood to [them] when [they were] young. They really messed [the actor] up,” the man said. “[They were] really looking for help.”
>Of course none of this matters now for Gunn because the Keaton push came and went and did dick all.
Well no it may matter in two different ways
>People blaming Gunn for The Flash
This I find actually mostly unfair to him as most of the greenlighting and work on Flash was done before he had control of DC films. The only thing you could blame him for is the Clooney ending. But I think we'll end up seeing more people continue to blame him for Flash.
>higher expectations for Brave and the Bold
I think people now want to know if this will be better than Burton's and Nolan's Batman films or not. Even though he's not directing it, this would be a Batman film done under his watch.
I forgive him because he likes toku and kamen rider
And I am exposed to bad opinions on Cinemaphile all day
he's got a lot to say but not a lot of substance. like shitty HOW? why are those things bad?
i bet he'd get flustered if you pressed him because this seems like him just throwing out gut feelings
>d-debate meee mr. gunn!
he can say batman 89 is bad all day but until he elaborates all that anyone can say is "ok". maybe he thinks its bad because the theater seats were uncomfortable? or maybe jack nicholson took his girl at prom night? we will never know.
also a lot of people in here saying joker killing the waynes was dumb but nobody is elaborating. explain your position! WHY is it dumb?
It’s “dumb” because it’s not like the comics.
What Gunn probably meams is that Batman shouldn't be able to find a criminal who killed his parents because it's a completely random person, which symbolizes that Batman's character is driven by eternal desire for vengeance against crime, which he csn never fully stop. I guess Gunn thinks that after Batman finds his parents' killer, he doesn't have such a strong motivation to continue anymore?
I'm old enough to remember the huge controversy when Michael Keaton was chosen to play Batman. At that point in time he was almost solely known for romantic comedies