Kek! Fricking Gimli! You called it a mine yourself like 2 scenes ago! It's called a mine because you all mine shit there! Like gold and silver and gems and your mithril stuff.
Like what is this little fricker even talking about? Fricking kek!
Kek! Fricking Gimli! You called it a mine yourself like 2 scenes ago!
The dwarves' beef was that no one differentiated between the mine itself and the dwarven city adjacent to the mine. He refers to the mine because they *do* have to pass through the mining area on the way to the city, but he objects to calling the whole thing a mine. Moria is a region that encompasses the mine and the city
watch it Gimli
How does Khazad Dum work as a city? Like, was Balin's tomb in a cemetery or did they just randomly carve out a nook in a wall next to market stall?
Where did the Dwarves get food if they hadn't been seen in like 30 years? LIke were they growing underground crops or something?
That haven't been seen in 30 years because they fricking died m8.
They eat rocks
They eat orcs.
What do the orcs eat then?
Maggoty bread
They eat corks
Mushroom
One of the few things RoP did well was showing us how Moria was before the fall, with lots of mining enterprises controlled by what I assume were families and hanging gardens with light coming from holes in the mountains. Maybe the actual scene is in YouTube
In the book Balin's tomb was actually a hall of records that the dwarves turned into a mausoleum, presumably during their last stand against the Orcs. It's why there was a book there that Gandalf read from.
>Where did the Dwarves get food if they hadn't been seen in like 30 years?
They had been dead for 30 years. They were out of contact before then.
How did they light an underground city
There were windows carved into the mountainsides.
What did they do with the excess mined nonvaluable materials?
dunno but it's fairly prevalent in some of the lore they traded with elves which is why there was a friendly elf door. So maybe that.
>op is realizing for the first that jackson is a hack
Did they just simply forget that Sauron still had one of his top elite commanders stationed there after he previously cleared Moria?
The balrog had no relation to Sauron. He was just a remnant of the last age that survived hiding in the earth.
What do you mean mate? Remember Saruman even said "He is gathering all evil to him. Very soon he will summon an army great enough to launch an assault upon Middle-Earth."
Basically he was summoning all the evil creatures like the Balrog to work for him.
Saruman was suffering from paranoid delusions.
This
homie smoked too much weed and his latent paranoia kicked in
Anon, you're wrong. I don't know what the hell else to tell you. The balrog was a completely independent figure. The vague statement statement by Saruman means nothing. Hell, the goblins of Moria probably weren't even aware of the war. They were a bunch of hillbilly troglodytes in their own little kingdom.
What do you mean? The Goblins chased the Fellowship all the way to Llorien and the Elves had to kil lthem.
Goblins are malicious and like to kill people. That doesn't mean they're in league with Sauron. You seem really dim tbh...
Aren't the also cowardly? There is no way they would have chased the Fellowship into certain death into the Lorien No-Go zone unless Sauron had commanded it either directly, or via his Elite Monster Commander, the Balrog from Morgoth
Well yeah they were cowardly little shits, that's why they attacked in large groups and used swarm tactics. Also, they didn't intend to chase the fellowship *through* the borders of Moria, they would have just chased them up to the borders.
And keep in mid that there wasn't some fenceline or a clear-cut "past this point you will be shot by elvish archers" sign. They were never sure exactly how far the defenses extended on ay given day so the more reckless ones might test the waters and end up getting shot at before falling back. It's like a dog chasing a squirrel and forgetting it's got a leash on it until it hits the end of the rope.
They were out for blood the moment they knew *somebody* was in Moria. Like, all it took was the implication of a noise for them to go berserk. That it was particularly the Fellowship meant nothing. They had zero way to know that.
That's just how goblins roll, anon. They would have attacked anyone who came into their territory
What that anon means is that the expression "gathering all evil" doesn't necessarily means all evil was subordinated to Sauron, there was some parties acting more of less independent invigorated by Sauron's restored power. Which is consistent with the lore since the orcs and other evil things have a tendency to hide in the depths with the absence of a powerful evil being like Melkor or Sauron. The goblins of Moria probably where there before the dwarves expedition and in the case of the Balrog he was hiding in there since the fall of Melkor, woken up by Durin long time ago provoking the fall of Moria in the first place
The Balrog, Sauron and Gandalf/Saruman are the same species. They're Maiar. Sauron is a pretty powerful one but he doesn't control the Balrogs. Morgoth did, who was a Valar, which are to Maiar as Archangels are to Angels. That's why he calls it a "Balrog of Morgoth".
Are there any other named Valar besides Morgoth?
Yes
Yes.
Lots, but I don't remember their names, you best bet would be checking out the official wiki. Each one being a part of Eru, some of them even fought Melkor a couple times I think
There's a bunch, I'm not autistic enough to know them by name except Manwe.
But I know how to use google so here you go
Lords of the Valar:
Manwë Súlimo, King of the Valar, husband of Varda
Ulmo, King of the Sea
Aulë the Smith, husband of Yavanna
Oromë Aldaron, the Great Rider, husband of Vána
Mandos (Námo), Judge of the Dead, husband of Vairë
Lórien (Irmo), Master of Dreams and Desires, husband of Estë
Tulkas Astaldo, Champion of Valinor, husband of Nessa
Queens of the Valar (Valier):
Varda Elentári, Queen of the Stars, wife of Manwë
Yavanna Kementári, Giver of Fruits, wife of Aulë
Nienna, Lady of Mercy
Estë the Gentle, wife of Irmo
Vairë the Weaver, wife of Mandos
Vána the Ever-young, wife of Oromë
Nessa the Dancer, wife of Tulkas
This does not include Melkor who becomes known as Morgoth
Why didn't Melkor get paired up with a qt wife? Did his seething over this cause him becoming evil?
In Lost Tales, which is essentially just an early draft of Silmarillion, Melkor has a dark goddess as one of his cronies. I can't remember her name but she was blatantly just the Celtic Morrigan.
Manwe was Melkor's only true love, but Eru made Manwe into a dimwit Yes man.
Why didn't Ulmo?
How i never knew that? What the frick. I'm in the middle of the two towers and there wasnt anything about that, was it?
Its so strange suddenly knowing that they are this mystical, wtf.
It's silmarillion and unfinished tales stuff. Tolkien wrote much of it first but it wasn't published until after his death and its intent is to be a realistic mythos of Ea, similar to real life documents like beowulf or sagas (which does not particularly have mass appeal like the hobbit or lotr). I doubt you missed anything.
and just like Sauron the Balrog dies like a b***h.
The badguys in LotR are pretty fricking weak. Even Smaug goes down pretty easily.
He had a thing for 'and then the bad guy forgot that he had a peanut allergy and choked to death because a man had a kid give him peanuts'.
>The badguys in LotR are pretty fricking weak.
Aren't everyone weak as frick? Like, what gandalf and saruman even do? Their magic system get barely explained.
Gandalf died after fighting for days straight and then got to come back just because 'oh wait I'm not done yet'. I think that qualifies him to be the strongest cheater ever seen, and I never agreed with it.
To extend your gaming analogy, think of it like an escort mission. The real danger to Gandalf wasn't dying himself, since he could eventually respawn, but failing to protect the other more vulnerable party members or failing the mission tasks (destroying the ring, saving Edoras, getting Aragon to Gondor alive).
What the frick do balrogs do all day. Like for entertainment. What do they eat.
The goblins worshipped him as a god. He probably got some amusement out of that.
think about meeting his favorite person, Gandalf
Never meet your heroes
I love ancient pre hisotrical lore. Isn't there a line about them falling so deep where unknown things gnaw at the earth? There are forces not even gandalf or galadriel or sauron know about just in the background. Really lovecraftian if I may say so myself.
As if Sauron could control one of Melkor's former balrogs
Most of the Moria orcs and goblins were just kind of there on their own recognizance and had been hanging around since even before Sauron made his big comeback. Sauron didn't run the dwarves out of there in preparation for the war, it had been abandoned long before that as the mythril veins dried up and went deeper than they should have and found trouble. Balin's failed expedition was the first time any dwarf had been there in a long time
Also the Balrogs worked for Morgoth, who was several tiers above Sauron. They were never Sauron's minions. If they were he'd probably have had a few at the last battle
Hell, aren't the Balrog in the same "class" as Sauron? Along with Gandalf and gang. Fallen angels and all that. Granted I don't know how power levels and shit work in LOTR:
If they were wouldn't they have massive armies too instead of hiding away waiting to be called by a higher evil power?
I'm guessing Sauron was just better. Same as humans, maybe not all Maiar are created equal or have the same overambitious wannabe Aulë personality.
Balrogs are pure beasts binded to closely to Melkor, and after Melkor's fall the surviving balrogs flew into hiding, they are still dangerous to a mortal, but not like before with Melkor, in fact in the book Durin's Bane actually runs from Gandalf like a little b***h after both had fallen in the subterranean lake. Corrupted Maiar like Sauron where more complex, usually taking form of elves to disguise themselves, Balrogs were already too consumed by evil
Probably thought the Maiar came to stuff him out. Gandalf once he used the words of command probably lit up like a Christmas tree. The Balrog was hiding from his kind till the end of the world
We're getting into capeshit powerlevel "who would win" territory here but if I had to give an answer I'd say Sauron + the one ring probably outclasses any individual Balrog, but just not enough for them to defer to him and take orders from him.
As for the recruiting massive armies thing, that just wasn't how Balrogs operated. They were kinda sorta willing to obey the chain of command when the guy giving the orders was arguably the most powerful entity in middle earth but they weren't really into organizing or leading anyone themselves. They didn't necessarily want to take over the world like Sauron did, they just wanted to rule their niche. The one in Moria wasn't some kind of general in charge of the whole crew, it's just that everything else in Moria deferred to it because it was multiple powerlevels above them and they knew not to frick with it.
>Granted I don't know how power levels and shit work in LOTR:
That's okay, not even the author figured it out.
its figured that since Balrogs were actually sentient creatures and insanely powerful they'd have no reason to help Sauron. He probably just liked it there so he stayed and didn't want to be killed in the war. Nobody actually wants to go to war not even evil beings.
How did the Balrog make it to the bridge when all the stairs collapsed? Like how did he make it across?
Someone sounds mad
The human term “mine” is too general. To Gimli, the description was a laughable dismissal of what really went on down there.
> dworgies
Gimli the dwarf..
Gimli the hypocrite!
>underground cities with medieval tech
What do they eat?
goblins
He thinks it's quaint that they call it a mine when it was really an enormous Dwarven city full of culture & made to be enormous. Most mines are dirty little holes barely bigger than the people in working in them
How do these morons see anything if they're underground all the time
There were windows that let in light. Also ithildin glows.
He suggested they call it "An Ours" but they all laughed at him.
Marxism-Gimlininism
To be fair, and not to get all Tax Policy on the subject, but almost none of the economics surrounding Middle Earth make sense. The infrastructure and economic footprint required to make simple leather goods would've spoiled the idyllic English country landscape that Tolkien so clearly had a hardon for. The same constraints can be applied to food sources for dwarves and commerce between the Shire and outlying nations.
Finish that book, George.
(when I reference leather goods, I'm referring to those used by the Shire, by the way)
this. toklien was a philologist and too far up his own ass to think about the day to day consequences of his worldbuilding.
>The infrastructure and economic footprint required to make simple leather goods
Black person it's dried animal hide
Tanning leather is more than just drying.
This. Leatherworking is some nonsensical pain in the assery.
Do hobbits even use a lot of leather goods? They don’t even wear shoes and most of their clothes seem to be some kind of cloth.
Whose to say they don’t just trade food for what little leather they need?
>make it 99.9% of the way through Moria
>within eyesight of the exit
>easily could get out with just a short run
>Phew, all these days wandering through this dark, creepy dungeon and we're about to make it out unscathed...
>goddamnit Pippin!
>every goblin in moria spergs out over some shit that happens once a week
Where were they on this map when the goblins attacked?
See where it says lightshaft on the far right? That's where they found the skeleton. And Gandalf/Balrog fell down the Abyss
So after he fell in the Abyss helike trekked 40 miles back all the way through Moria towards Fangorn?
Gandalf chased the Balrog up that winding path that says Gandalf's Pursuit then up the winding Endless Staircase to the top of the mountain and Durin's Tower. There he at last threw down his enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside. Then Gandalf the Grey perished. Gandalf the White appeared elsewhere.
Like he fricking respawned and teleported instantly on a new spawn point?
Yes. By the light and grace of Eru the Almighty.
Chamber of records/the tomb on the bottom left pic
Isn't shit like breaking off and falling and making noise all the time? I mean how much old crap is there in Moria? There was ladders and mining equipment everywhere!
I'm not sure that is up to scale. Considering the time of freefall in the movie before he hit the water and the Balrogs size and air resistance plus him brushing and bumping against the walls, I did some rough calculations and Gandalf fell about 8 miles before hitting the water.
That's from an atlas based on the books, not the films
Why didn't the Balrog and his Goblin troops kill Gandalf the first time he came through Moria?
It's a big fricking place and they weren't guarding every tunnel and door. By that point the traffic through the place was almost nonexistent. They probably gave up lurking at the exits after the first couple years of no one showing up
how did the destruction of the sauron tower cause the vaporizing of the orcs into thin air?
>yeah let's pass through Moria, sure my cusin has not answered my mail for a long time but I'm sure he's fine well if Gandalf has nothing to say about my relatives being too greedy and unleashing a terror from the depp of the earth we'll be fine
Well to be fair at that point the alternatives were staying on the mountain, getting snowed in and freezing to death or walking right past Isengard and basically asking to be captured since Saruman was watching their every move. Moria was kind of a desperation move.
And it *was* possible that, as Gandalf suggested, they might just pass through unnoticed. Balin's problem was that he actually set up camp and tried to stay there so him getting Goblin'd was pretty much inevitable. A quick stealth run through was much more plausible
Who the frick was hanging out around the Gap of Rohan that was more dangerous than a horde of goblins and a fricking Balrog?
Fricking Saruman lives there at Isengard.
Well the Gap is wider than Sarumans gaping manpussy, just walk past him. I've never heard anyone say >one does not simply walk into Rohan.
I have never seen LOTR. I downloaded a full collection of movies that Rifftrax has riffed, with the riff audio pre-overlain on top. This includes LOTR. Should my first viewing of LOTR be the rifftrax version?
No
He was mad that clueless Elves and humans reduced the kingdom of Moria in their minds to being only a mine, when it was actually a thriving capital of civilization until Durin's Bane awoke and pushed their shit in.
Gimli is a little rascal that NEEDS to be PUNISHED! HAHA XD
Elrong could have at lease told the the password to the secret Elven friend door
It's written right on the bloody door
Other than the kek this post could be from 20 years ago.
How are people acting like Sauron didn't fricking dominate the Balrog and make him serve him? Otherwise why did he go so hard on the Fellowship? It's just like the watcher he was a Sauron dominated creature too and he took his shot at Frodo to get the ring so he could also bring it back to his master.
Sauron would have brought the balrog to Mordor if he were its master.
You would think so, but maybe he knew the Fellowship was going to try to sneak through Moria, and he decided at the point to leave his strongest Monster Commander, the Balrog from Morgath, guarding that path with a substantial number of Sauronian goblin and orc troops.
That's a fricking stupid theory. Both the balrog and orcs were in Moria for centuries before the War of the Ring.
That cave troll they had was being controlled by chains like an obvious military asset.
It was being controlled by chains like a pitbull. This is either trolling now or you're a genuine downy.
It's not a fricking pet! It's a troop!
>Otherwise why did he go so hard on the Fellowship?
What do you even mean? He had some intruders and attacked them. Like
said. How would any of them known?
Maybe there was a Palantir as well in Moria that Sauron used to issue orders to the Balrog. That or he just fricking sent messengers with orders. Like he did with Saruman.
You're reaching deviantart levels of fanfiction here...
Nah, it's very clear in the books that Sauron has nothing to do with what happened in Moria. The Balrog isn't loyal to him. The orcs probably would fall in line but he didn't specifically sent them in Moria to frick with the fellowship or the dwarves. If anything he's behind the events of Moria because the general increase of evil he causes by raising his armied means everyone else was too busy to check it out before.
Only dwarves can use the M word
How strong is a dwarf in the tolkienverse?
I know elves are essentially superhuman and can even solo angels, but it's never clear how strong dwarves are.
The idea that Sauron is even letting ANYONE know about the Ring is ludicrous. He only trusts the Nazgul to find it because they're actually enslaved to it. Saruman doesn't even give his uruk-hai the specifics, just orders to bag the hobbits. A random orc getting a hold of the ring would be a disaster. You'd probably just make a 40k WAAAGH.
>A random orc getting a hold of the ring would be a disaster
Not really. That was actually the Ring's plan in the Hobbit, Gollum was never going to leave his little cave, so he dropped out of his pocket waiting for one of the thousands of orcs around to pick it up
It made no sense that the ring got Isildur killed off in some river and itself lost in the stream. It could have corrupted Isildur, made him convert Gondor into the service of Mordor like the other kings.
He was actually resisting that’s why it got him killed, because he would have chucked it into doom
At this point Sauron was weak from losing his body, his armies were defeated, the alliance of Men and Elves still strong. The Ring might've been able to corrupt Isildur easily, but at that point its true power was still unknown, which is why Isildur was allowed to keep it. The Ring is loyal to Sauron and Sauron only, putting Isildur on the dark lord's throne helps nothing, all it does is send the continent on another war with the forces of evil already severely diminished, and paint a gigantic target on the Ring's backside.
Why does Gimli talk like he's been there?
Why did Gimli try to get everyone killed and be indirectly responsible for Gandalf's death? Who was in the wrong here?
that's not what happened.