The only moron is cat - she gets played by fricking everyone and is almost exclusively responsible for inciting all of the worst decisions of the first three seasons of the show. Also everything goes to literal shit after she releases Jaime: >Robb loses his biggest bargaining chip in the war with the Lannisters. >Dissent starts spreading among the ranks of the other Northerners when Robb refuses to punish her or at least send her away from the front. >Robb decides to start ignoring Cat's advice about not fooling around with Talisa, which sends him down the road to breaking his oath to Frey.
Robb was the lord just like Ned was and he can pass a death sentence on anyone that needs it. This old homosexual got was he deserved. If Robb had stayed his hand, everyone would have just snickered behind his back and continued to betray him
There was a more tactical solution. Rob's decision decimated his army. Being the king or the lord gave him the right to kill him but that doesn't mean it was the correct decision
He should have imprisoned him as hostage. Killing him is a stupid decision, much like his father's stupid decisions and why the Starks could win a bunch of battles and still easily lose the game of thrones.
Jon Snow demonstrated what a king naturally does when he forgave the people in the North and they knelt to him. The writing turned out awful, but showing how naturally people came to follow Jon was important for showing what an actual king is like. The fact he was betrayed and killed and then literally resurrected was like whatever God exists in that story giving him a do over which he promptly learns from and goes about basically as a living embodiment of justice. Robb, the Lannisters, they all miss/missed the big idea that the king is first and foremost a protector of the realm. Even Dany in the end missed the point. She just wanted to pull a Che Guevara and keep going around toppling civilizations to “free the oppressed” but like all of those types, they have a low key bloodlust that will never be sated. There will always be an oppressor to topple or a traitor to the revolution who needs to be killed. Jon ended that nonsense too. Westeros is filled with shitheads and scum. It’s so bad that when the Targaryens, the only people who hold the place together, put forward a shitty ruler, everything falls apart. When they’re replaced, things REALLY fall apart and were it not for an idealized Targaryen stepping forward, everyone would be dead. Robb isn’t even on the same level. He’s a savage playing noble like the rest of them ultimately.
Jon's first action upon resurrection was executing the people that betrayed him. Not really any different from Robb. And the situation with the Northern lords was entirely different.
>he destroyed himself
Wouldn't go that far. If anything, the issue at hand began with Eddard, who as we all know along with Robert and Jon Arryn didn't actually rebel against the Targaryen dynasty until what happened? The effects hit home. I.E. they never gave a flying frick about what was right or wrong, about the disillusioned sense of justice they used as an excuse to overthrow a madman and subsequently do nothing to fix or improve the kingdoms.
So of course this homosexualry passed on to Robb, but more importantly, it passed on to the Karstarks. Who promptly abandoned Robb's effort, despite their butthole patriarch. To this end the logic of the North and their actions and reactions are indifferent to Aerys II and the Targaryens in general. Except the North is a certified shithole, and dragons are cool. Well, some are, and only on paper really.
Why didn't Robb execute Catelyn?
If everybody hated Walder Frey, why didn'r anybody just kill him? or just build another bridge and tell the Freys to eat shit. Jesus Christ what have the Starks even been doing for the last few centuries?
It's more closely related to the North than the South, given the North's relationship with the Riverlands and its geographical purpose. That being said, I clearly asked WHY DIDN'T ANYBODY, AS IN ANY ONE ENTITY IN THE ENTIRE FRICKING SEVEN KINGDOMS AND NOT EXCLUSIVELY THE NORTH just murder House Frey since according to the history books they've pretty much been universally reviled since their establishment. >inb4 b-but you said Starks
The Twins is THE path from the North to the Riverlands. The Riverlands are ruled by House Tully. Eddard Stark is married to Catelyn Tully.
>since according to the history books they've pretty much been universally reviled since their establishment.
You just made that up. Anyway Walder is a prickly c**t but never did anything pre-series that would remotely justify wiping out their house, especially a wealthy and influential one. Furthermore it's made pretty clear (I guess not in the show since the Riverrun stuff is almost entirely cut) that the Tullys, as lords paramount, have one of the weakest holds on their respective region, relatively speaking. >why didn't they just build another bridge
Not enough normal traffic to justify anyone else investing in a bridge nearby, I guess. There were other ways around it's simply that for Robb's plan to work he needed to cross then and there.
Theon was great to watch. Shame they kept him around considering his arc was effectively over shortly after this. The whole Reek subplot didn't fit in the show and it went nowhere. >I've known you a long time, Theon Greyjoy. You're not the man you're pretending to be. >You may be right, but I've gone too far to pretend to be anybody else.
Done. Character is finished, some minor redemption in introspection. Just have him die and end on a high note. But no, the show must go on, literally.
>The dwarf has played his little trick, but he can only play it once
Uh, how do you know that? Wait, how did you know the wildfire was Tyrion's idea anyway? Clearly they've anticipated your obvious siege of the weakest entry point of King's Landing; the Mud Gate. What if they intend to just set the beach on fire, or destroy the entire gate as soon as we breach the walls? What if during our approach they just start chucking pots and barrels of wildfire at us? Do we even have any scouts in the field, are we sure there aren't reinforcements headed to King's Landing right now? Because we can maybe take it, but after the casualities I doubt we'll be able to hold it for very long. This whole campaign seems really poorly planned, maybe we should just retreat and come back later? I know you really, really want the throne because of your insane psychological issues derived from your brother's rebellion, but maybe we should just retreat and regroup.
Hey by the way, where did all the food and supplies that Ser Davos smuggled into Storm's End come from? Just curious.
Robb does the “right” thing because he deserved to be executed but ultimately it was the impractical thing because it lost him his life. Just like Eddard. There’s a symmetry between them to doing the “honorable” thing but not realizing how it actually hurts them and their family more
Betraying the king is a treasonous offense. Not only would Robb look like a pussy if he didn't kill Karstark, but it also empowers Lannisters to say "oh we're killing hostages with no punishment? cool." while they hold Sansa and (as far as Robb knows) Arya hostage, which was half of his entire reason for declaring war to begin with.
Karstark way overstepped his station. This dumbfrick brought his kids to a war and got triggered when they got killed.
there was good theory of karstark having some ulterior motive for killing the hostages (since emotional overreaction makes very little sense) but I can't remember what it was
Eddard does the dishonorable thing and gets executed for it, so I'm not sure where your parallel is. Granted the buildup is "honorable" from a certain perspective.
I think the overarching point is that Northmen are oblivious to context, which applies to the Karstarks as well, because holy shit how much of a moronic butthole do you have to be to support that crazy lunatic. Robb may have a weakness for foreign ass, but at least he wasn't a total douchebag.
I genuinely have no clue what the frick the Northern houses see in each other. For the most part they seem like a bunch of crazy buttholes held together by the history of their forebearers, of which the last 10 or so generations have just been trying to ape off of with no identity of their own. Case in point: Eddard Stark, a charisma void with zero autonomy and yet somehow has a reputation of being honorable. I seriously doubt this moron even understands what is or isn't honorable about his actions.
Bran questioning his father about Will's execution and the white walkers is all you ever need to know about how much of a complete phony Ned was. >Literally has to be reminded about his family's existence, by Varys of all people
What a joke.
It was a no win scenario for Robb. Execute him and the Karstarks leave, spare/imprison him and the rest of his men think he's weak and try more bullshit.
He could have cut one of his hands off and locked him up. Spare his life because of his families history of loyalty and still show that he's not to be fricked with. The Northerners would probably respect that.
Robb is a such an idiot for this. If he executes Karstark, he loses his men. If he lets Karstark go, his men will perceive him as weak and probably turn on him. So the most logical thing to do would be to have Karstark raped. Maybe do it yourself to show power to your men. Robb acting idiotic when there are obvious alternatives is a glaring plothole.
He deserved it
>Implying
Robb was moron and the Lannisters deserved
The only moron is cat - she gets played by fricking everyone and is almost exclusively responsible for inciting all of the worst decisions of the first three seasons of the show. Also everything goes to literal shit after she releases Jaime:
>Robb loses his biggest bargaining chip in the war with the Lannisters.
>Dissent starts spreading among the ranks of the other Northerners when Robb refuses to punish her or at least send her away from the front.
>Robb decides to start ignoring Cat's advice about not fooling around with Talisa, which sends him down the road to breaking his oath to Frey.
Oath breakers are scum
Oath breaking is just one of those entrapment social contracts meant to ensure your loyalty. Do you follow someone out of loyalty no matter what?
Cool words, but it doesn’t wash out going apeshit on 2 kids. He’s pathetic.
What he did was wrong, what Rob did was moronic.
Robb was the lord just like Ned was and he can pass a death sentence on anyone that needs it. This old homosexual got was he deserved. If Robb had stayed his hand, everyone would have just snickered behind his back and continued to betray him
There was a more tactical solution. Rob's decision decimated his army. Being the king or the lord gave him the right to kill him but that doesn't mean it was the correct decision
He should have imprisoned him as hostage. Killing him is a stupid decision, much like his father's stupid decisions and why the Starks could win a bunch of battles and still easily lose the game of thrones.
Jon Snow demonstrated what a king naturally does when he forgave the people in the North and they knelt to him. The writing turned out awful, but showing how naturally people came to follow Jon was important for showing what an actual king is like. The fact he was betrayed and killed and then literally resurrected was like whatever God exists in that story giving him a do over which he promptly learns from and goes about basically as a living embodiment of justice. Robb, the Lannisters, they all miss/missed the big idea that the king is first and foremost a protector of the realm. Even Dany in the end missed the point. She just wanted to pull a Che Guevara and keep going around toppling civilizations to “free the oppressed” but like all of those types, they have a low key bloodlust that will never be sated. There will always be an oppressor to topple or a traitor to the revolution who needs to be killed. Jon ended that nonsense too. Westeros is filled with shitheads and scum. It’s so bad that when the Targaryens, the only people who hold the place together, put forward a shitty ruler, everything falls apart. When they’re replaced, things REALLY fall apart and were it not for an idealized Targaryen stepping forward, everyone would be dead. Robb isn’t even on the same level. He’s a savage playing noble like the rest of them ultimately.
Jon's first action upon resurrection was executing the people that betrayed him. Not really any different from Robb. And the situation with the Northern lords was entirely different.
>Jon's first action upon resurrection was executing the people that betrayed him.
That was justice
>When they’re replaced, things REALLY fall apart
Things were pretty peaceful for 20 years
rob really should've executed those little lannister gays, they were nobodies anyways
never listen to women lads
>Kill me and be-ACK!
Dumb old homosexual deserved it.
Typical no empathy zoomer
Nah Robb was right to decapitate this boomer psycho
In doing so he destroyed himself. How was that right?
>he destroyed himself
Wouldn't go that far. If anything, the issue at hand began with Eddard, who as we all know along with Robert and Jon Arryn didn't actually rebel against the Targaryen dynasty until what happened? The effects hit home. I.E. they never gave a flying frick about what was right or wrong, about the disillusioned sense of justice they used as an excuse to overthrow a madman and subsequently do nothing to fix or improve the kingdoms.
So of course this homosexualry passed on to Robb, but more importantly, it passed on to the Karstarks. Who promptly abandoned Robb's effort, despite their butthole patriarch. To this end the logic of the North and their actions and reactions are indifferent to Aerys II and the Targaryens in general. Except the North is a certified shithole, and dragons are cool. Well, some are, and only on paper really.
>Wouldn't go that far
It cost Robb half his army. That was the end of his chance to win.
Why didn't Robb execute Catelyn?
If everybody hated Walder Frey, why didn'r anybody just kill him? or just build another bridge and tell the Freys to eat shit. Jesus Christ what have the Starks even been doing for the last few centuries?
the freys aren't in the north, did you even watch the fricking show?
It's more closely related to the North than the South, given the North's relationship with the Riverlands and its geographical purpose. That being said, I clearly asked WHY DIDN'T ANYBODY, AS IN ANY ONE ENTITY IN THE ENTIRE FRICKING SEVEN KINGDOMS AND NOT EXCLUSIVELY THE NORTH just murder House Frey since according to the history books they've pretty much been universally reviled since their establishment.
>inb4 b-but you said Starks
The Twins is THE path from the North to the Riverlands. The Riverlands are ruled by House Tully. Eddard Stark is married to Catelyn Tully.
>since according to the history books they've pretty much been universally reviled since their establishment.
You just made that up. Anyway Walder is a prickly c**t but never did anything pre-series that would remotely justify wiping out their house, especially a wealthy and influential one. Furthermore it's made pretty clear (I guess not in the show since the Riverrun stuff is almost entirely cut) that the Tullys, as lords paramount, have one of the weakest holds on their respective region, relatively speaking.
>why didn't they just build another bridge
Not enough normal traffic to justify anyone else investing in a bridge nearby, I guess. There were other ways around it's simply that for Robb's plan to work he needed to cross then and there.
>Gods help you, Theon Greyjoy. Now you are truly lost.
brb just posting the better character/execution
Theon is such a homosexual
Theon was great to watch. Shame they kept him around considering his arc was effectively over shortly after this. The whole Reek subplot didn't fit in the show and it went nowhere.
>I've known you a long time, Theon Greyjoy. You're not the man you're pretending to be.
>You may be right, but I've gone too far to pretend to be anybody else.
Done. Character is finished, some minor redemption in introspection. Just have him die and end on a high note. But no, the show must go on, literally.
aaaggghhh
>The dwarf has played his little trick, but he can only play it once
Uh, how do you know that? Wait, how did you know the wildfire was Tyrion's idea anyway? Clearly they've anticipated your obvious siege of the weakest entry point of King's Landing; the Mud Gate. What if they intend to just set the beach on fire, or destroy the entire gate as soon as we breach the walls? What if during our approach they just start chucking pots and barrels of wildfire at us? Do we even have any scouts in the field, are we sure there aren't reinforcements headed to King's Landing right now? Because we can maybe take it, but after the casualities I doubt we'll be able to hold it for very long. This whole campaign seems really poorly planned, maybe we should just retreat and come back later? I know you really, really want the throne because of your insane psychological issues derived from your brother's rebellion, but maybe we should just retreat and regroup.
Hey by the way, where did all the food and supplies that Ser Davos smuggled into Storm's End come from? Just curious.
Robb does the “right” thing because he deserved to be executed but ultimately it was the impractical thing because it lost him his life. Just like Eddard. There’s a symmetry between them to doing the “honorable” thing but not realizing how it actually hurts them and their family more
He needed to be punished so Robb could reassert his authority but killing him was moronic
Betraying the king is a treasonous offense. Not only would Robb look like a pussy if he didn't kill Karstark, but it also empowers Lannisters to say "oh we're killing hostages with no punishment? cool." while they hold Sansa and (as far as Robb knows) Arya hostage, which was half of his entire reason for declaring war to begin with.
Karstark way overstepped his station. This dumbfrick brought his kids to a war and got triggered when they got killed.
there was good theory of karstark having some ulterior motive for killing the hostages (since emotional overreaction makes very little sense) but I can't remember what it was
Eddard does the dishonorable thing and gets executed for it, so I'm not sure where your parallel is. Granted the buildup is "honorable" from a certain perspective.
I think the overarching point is that Northmen are oblivious to context, which applies to the Karstarks as well, because holy shit how much of a moronic butthole do you have to be to support that crazy lunatic. Robb may have a weakness for foreign ass, but at least he wasn't a total douchebag.
I genuinely have no clue what the frick the Northern houses see in each other. For the most part they seem like a bunch of crazy buttholes held together by the history of their forebearers, of which the last 10 or so generations have just been trying to ape off of with no identity of their own. Case in point: Eddard Stark, a charisma void with zero autonomy and yet somehow has a reputation of being honorable. I seriously doubt this moron even understands what is or isn't honorable about his actions.
Bran questioning his father about Will's execution and the white walkers is all you ever need to know about how much of a complete phony Ned was.
>Literally has to be reminded about his family's existence, by Varys of all people
What a joke.
>Hey by the way, where did all the food and supplies that Ser Davos smuggled into Storm's End come from
Stannis ate my wiener?
nah man... Robb was in the right. That whole subplot was so fricking depressing
https://archiveofourown.org/works/54645817
It was a no win scenario for Robb. Execute him and the Karstarks leave, spare/imprison him and the rest of his men think he's weak and try more bullshit.
He could have cut one of his hands off and locked him up. Spare his life because of his families history of loyalty and still show that he's not to be fricked with. The Northerners would probably respect that.
That's actually not bad. He effectively becomes a walking reminder.
Robb is a such an idiot for this. If he executes Karstark, he loses his men. If he lets Karstark go, his men will perceive him as weak and probably turn on him. So the most logical thing to do would be to have Karstark raped. Maybe do it yourself to show power to your men. Robb acting idiotic when there are obvious alternatives is a glaring plothole.