>t. an ant
I'm not the idiot who broke basic scene transition rules by pointing the character in the completely opposite direction when setting her up in the other direction for the rest of the page.
I'm sorry but what's the point of all this?
Why rescue and revive Allison just to tell her nothing matters?
Feels like Abby's just going through with this because there was nowhere else to put Jadis' characterization
remember tumblerina, what has Abaddon's whole arc been since Lancer-guy corrupted him?
Alice's Danni Tarbaby. She will break the wheel. She won't perpetuate what our evil patriarchal ancestors have imposed upon us. She will break all the rules to ascend the Spire to a state of pure communism.
So why is she being told nothing matters?
Because that's how she feels right now: despondent. Apathetic. By rubbing her face in it, asian-archon's blowing on the embers of her defiance, liable to stoke them into a flame. Eventually Alice will go shonen protagonist and cry-out >NO! EXISTENCE HAS TO HAVE MEANING! I WILL PROVE YOU WRONG!
and that's what asian-farseer wanted all along.
THen she will return her consciousness to her body. Because she's ready to take-on all challengers, even Jagganoth gain. If Alice woke-up all fricked-up, feeling as low as she already does, seeing her missing limbs, she would become absolutely crushed, incapable of the necessary fight to come.
You're sort of right but you talk like a fricking schizo. The theme of the comic has always been change over stagnancy, breaking down ossified systems to build something new.
Jadis IS that system, personified. She's not trying to inspire Allison to do anything, she's literally just an npc reciting a few lines that were prewritten before creation began.
It's like you're playing Morrowind and you have a chat with Vivec. Sure, in the context of the game, he's an all powerful god, but all his lines are still just prewritten, as are all your responses. All you can do is click through them, and all he can do is repeat them. There is no agency in that exchange, Vivec isn't actually communicating with YOU, the player.
Allison is seeing Jadis as she currently is now that the machine is active.
But since time is an illusion one can argue that the fleshy version of Jadis Allison was seeing before is real as well.
>allison changes the future, jadis goes along with the change as if it has always been that way
if magic is lying to God then whoppers to demiurges should be simple
I'm sorry but what's the point of all this?
Why rescue and revive Allison just to tell her nothing matters?
Feels like Abby's just going through with this because there was nowhere else to put Jadis' characterization
I'm guessing Jadis is trying to trick Allison into giving up her key willingly. Or to simply just give up so the master key's power is no longer a variable in whatever 5D chess game Jadis is playing. So far in the story each Demiurge has reacted to the master key's presence differently. Mottom was scared of it, Mammon was indifferent towards it, Incubus wanted to use the key by proxy (control the person who controlled it), Solomon seemed to want its power to be mastered and properly used, Gog tried to trick Allison into getting wormed (certainly so Gog could claim its power), and Jagganoth very straightforwardly tried to take it by force.
>I'm sorry but what's the point of all this?
Jadis the nihilist would say nothing. >Why rescue and revive Allison just to tell her nothing matters?
It's in the universal script. Jadis didn't choose to do it; she had to do it.
>Jadis >chooses
You don't get it. Jadis has no free will anymore. To choose in spite of being predetermined to make that choice is something an aspiring royal would do.
If causality is >you’ll do it because you’ll do it
Some combination of >it makes total sense for me to do that!
Plus >I don’t like it, but malarky and circumstances are gonna conspire to force me to do that
Are gonna make you do it, even if external observers think it’s pointless.
Jadis is literally not a person, she has less autonomy than a fricking rock. She said that nothing matters because that is what the script has written.
>The entirety of Fox News is just Gog Agog >The entirety of CNN is also just Gog Agog >NBC, ABC, Buzzfeed, all Gog'd >the only un-worm'd publications out there are shitty tabloids and they just talk about how everyone's Gog'd
I still don’t really understand how Abby can say the his universe is predetermined and there’s nothing after death in his world when magic is literally lying to change the universe and spirits of the dead beg you for money on the side of the street. I assume it’s gonna be explained better in more detail later but that seems inconsistent with what we know of the universe so far.
YISUN is a consummate liar. There are rules imposed upon you, yet simultaneously you can break those rules if you aren't aware that they exist.
May I offer you a cool, delicious plum, anon? >https://killsixbilliondemons.com/?comic=ksbd-3-45
I mean we know the universe is predetermined, that's literally Metatron's plan. It's the central motivator for both Zoss and Jagganoth to escape that predetermination
>when magic is literally lying to change the universe
Except those changes are already predetermined. Cio uses the Red Art in the Vault because Allison led her to the Vault, and Allison led her to the Vault because Cio met Allison in Throne, and so on.
>spirits of the dead beg you for money on the side of the street
That's not true life, those are just animate skeletons feebly repeating a few words and phrases. In the setting, when your soul flame goes out, it goes out for good. There's no "elsewhere" it can go
>the Void
It's been a while since the void was mentioned, but at least once I want to see the void again. Specifically off the path where you might encounter shades or angels fighting devils in the wild. It seems like one of the last wild truly inhospitable locations in the comic.
I don’t know why but this greatly diminishes my interest in the setting. I hate when authors limit their setting, especially a fantasy one. I’ll still stick around but I gotta say answering this stuff on twitter and not just leaving it up to interpretation takes the wind out of the sails
I'm hoping for the second option. Yisun said that if one wants to serve them faithfully, you shouldn't adhere rigidly to the rule and laws of the multiverse Yisun made. But I'm not sure Abaddon can stick to the landing
>First law of Yisun is that he is a liar. Everything is a lie. >It's FMA!
It's TES. Yisun's lie defines the universe. Therefore, in order to break free, your lie has to be more powerful than Yisun's.
No, he's definitely dead. He just doesn't care that logically being dead should prevent you from showing up and giving speeches and all that. Because logic is for losers.
>uses a setting where superb thick-headedness allows someone to rewrite reality >whines he has to double down on concepts and stuff
Isn't this a self-own more than anything?
>Fate is not a cage except for those who fear it
Wonder how Allison will apply this knowledge to overcome the ultimate fatalism? Will Allison know everything that will happen to her after this point? While the audience doesn't?
If I were Allison I'd conjure up a bottle of Jack Daniels right now and drink until I forget I'm seeing the entirety of the universe in front of me. I'd want to die as much as Jadis the next morning, but I'd be better off.
Abba's planned this for years, and Joy's omniscience is fundamentally way more limited than Jadis', she just perceives all her parallel lives, which rather changes the conclusions.
But that said, it's uncanny how Allison like Eve is and how Jadis-like Joy is. Eve was full fricking Royalty by the end (such as
Not effortlessly at first, but by this point in the movie
>Zoss is beheaded >still sticks around because death is an illusion that he rejects
Gee, I wonder whether Jadis is an unroyal puppet of causality mindbroken by a lie they just accepted
I do get that as a creator it would be annoying to have people constantly trying to 'aha' your work when you try and explain things as clear as you can. But for ksbd the whole point it nothing is real and anything can happen if you try hard enough so tom really put himself in an irritating corner.
>nothing is real and anything can happen if you try hard enough
Even if this is actually true about the world why the frick Abby (or anybody) would entertain any questions that take absolutely bullshit nonsensical directions. In most stories tonnes of things can happen - a plane can come out of nowhere and kill everybody - it wouldn't be much of a story would it? It would be blatantly insane if he was doing some kind of meta-lying outside the story because "lying" is such a part of the main story. A reader who thinks "everything is a lie" is plainly moronic.
I don't know what the frick people are asking him so maybe I'm misjudging the situation. But that being said, it's fricking ridiculous he offers any explanations outside the comic or the blurb itself. The comic should speak for itself and it's a failure on his part if he fails to develop an idea properly on the pages itself as well as his failure if he's answering these questions in real-time before anybody has any idea what the frick is going on. Just like he has done here:
I mean why the frick are you explaining the contents of this page/book live?
He's just being autistic because people aren't taking things at face value that are meant to be.
2 years ago
Anonymous
People here b***h incessantly that Abby doesn't explain or develop the situations he writes well enough to make the compelling. But those people, myself included, accept the premise and declaration that that thing exists. We accept that yes, there's now fricking time travel in the story, we don't need to "double down" as Abby says that there is time travel we want to fricking know why the frick it's there or relevant. Why the frick does Abby feel the need to explain shit to morons who won't take shit at face value when his most pressing problem is the fact he doesn't explain why that shit exists at all especially when some of these concepts are pure literature poison.
The plane comparison would make more sense if the setting has built its universe on the idea that people can make planes appear out of nowhere when you think hard enough - so when the author says "this scene is plane-free" its easy for people who get obsessed with the idea of authors always trying to trick you that they'd think otherwise.
[...]
I don't agree with them but I can understand how they come about. Getting obsessive about the Rules Of A Universe regardless of anything that is indicated by the actual story/author is a very internet thing to do.
>its easy for people who get obsessed with the idea of authors always trying to trick you
This is because people are fricking moronic and they've put up with authors LYING to their faces and tastelessly Shamalaning them to expect that a decently setup story has to pull the same shit when it doesn't have to. The author should make zero concessions to those people who want a shit story with needless twists and shit. The author should also recognize that these fricking morons think there's some meta-lying shit going on when anybody with experience in storytelling knows that flat-out lying to your audience is just the biggest fricking crime ever. So to expect Abby to lie to the audience, make the plane appear out of nowhere despite saying "there is no planes", is just demanding Abby be a shitty writer. He's got a lot of issues in his writing but he isn't fricking a hack.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're getting obsessive. At least half the people calling Abby's meta explanations lies are just memeing. The rest are probably just misunderstanding what Abby's trying to say.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well look, if you've read his Twitter I'll just take your word on it. Because all I've seen is his post and it just seems like he's spoonfeeding idiots. He's petting a burning dog either way as you've described both halves.
The plane comparison would make more sense if the setting has built its universe on the idea that people can make planes appear out of nowhere when you think hard enough - so when the author says "this scene is plane-free" its easy for people who get obsessed with the idea of authors always trying to trick you that they'd think otherwise.
He's just being autistic because people aren't taking things at face value that are meant to be.
I don't agree with them but I can understand how they come about. Getting obsessive about the Rules Of A Universe regardless of anything that is indicated by the actual story/author is a very internet thing to do.
>why the frick Abby (or anybody) would entertain any questions that take absolutely bullshit nonsensical directions.
Because the story is about our protagonist pushing past all the bullshit and preconceptions about how reality works and how the various demiurges she meets who have all created their own cages of stagnation have fricked themselves over for centuries and how she (unwittingly) rouses them out their respective bindings. Jadis is the final of two buttholes that need to get a wakeup call.
So when confronted with hard determinism and a crushing reality Alison has two choices, give in to the monotony of knowing the script or making her own and fate be damned. The latter being possible because the universe is ultimately something that can be bent to the strongest (or dumbest) of wills.
Yeah that shit is like an even worse version of his Jaghog reveal on tumblr and i will never stop hating it when he pulls this. If what he says in that tweet is true then great his story can be however he wants it to be and i'm invested enough to see how he handles it but i want those fricking REVEALS and HANDLING in the actual fricking story.
Seeing the shit he says in that tweet being revealed in the actual story is the entire point and him going of half wienered like this just because some people are confused and he can't just frickng make them wait is incredibly frustrating. It's just like the whole "yeah i know bury your gays is bad trust me this aint what it's gonna be" because frick me dude can't you just make your fricking story beats get some time in the oven before you take them out, Cio didn't even get to become cold on the ground before he tells us it's not gonna be permanent.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Most of my criticisms about KSBD spring from the simple fact that he in no way accommodated the medium. The main way people read his comic is online, over what has now been YEARS, but he's plotting out and writing the shit like it's a bog-standard graphic novel. And I will say, the pacing feels a hell of a lot better when you can sit down and read a volume all at once but a lot of his problems stem from this. The Cio situation for example, she died at the end of Volume 4, and if you read through she'd probably pop back up maybe halfway through Volume 5, not a terrible amount of time. But because the fandom is mostly reading it over weeks, months, and years, they have all that time to go b***h online about how their favorite gay gremlin is dead and how he's homophobic for killing her. So he preempts it by basically spoiling a plot beat YEARS in advance. Sure, the hypothetical reader in 10 years time that gets to sit down and read it all at once without random Internet spoilers will probably enjoy it, but the vast majority of his readership is reading it RIGHT NOW. He's making zero concessions to how he's actually releasing his material due to some high-minded belief that doing so would compromise his art or something. Plus he can't just keep his mouth shut about random elements of the story. How much did we already know about Jadis and the other Demiurges before we even saw them?
Compare this to Unsounded, where the author consistently not only acknowledges and plans for the medium, but takes advantage of it. There's even a similar case of a character being killed off years ago and only recently being revealed to be alive and what did the author do? Stay mum and never directly answer anything related to the character's death, so much so that most of the fandom only started to suspect the character's return only a short time before they came back. Any answers the author gives are about the backstory and never anything relevant to the main plot.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeh, Cope is a grade above most webcomic creators as she really takes advantage of the medium, instead of just treating it like a regular comic. Also helps that she has meticulously planned out the story and doesn't care that, if a fan favourite character acts terribly despite if it would hurt the comic's popularity, because the character's actions make sense within the context of the story
2 years ago
Anonymous
I agree with you about Ab's spoiler habit, but it's unreasonable to expect any comic creator not to create in the context of the finished work. It doesn't matter if things falter from update to update; if the pacing of the finished work is spot-on, that's what's important.
But this is the failure of the webcomic medium. It's a terrible publishing method for shit that isn't gags. People only tolerate it because it's free.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You can create in the context of the finished work and be mindful about the medium you're using. Abbadon just recently cottoned on to one practice that Unsounded has been doing for years, posting a batch of pages at a time for particularly important scenes. You obviously don't want to change your entire story to make every page self-contained, otherwise you'll just turn into a gag a day, but if you're only putting out 1 page a week that 10 page sequence is going to lose any impact it has since it will be dissected and ranted about for 10 weeks. Far better to post the sequence all at once then take a break.
As I said before the pacing is far better in the volumes, but the reality of the situation is that for the past 9 years people have been reading it as a webcomic so ignoring the main way people are reading your work is just ridiculous. If the finished product is that important publish it like a graphic novel, once every 3-4 years, but trying to pretend the webcomic audience isn't the main one when he's creating the work just stupid. Unsounded has an even longer and more complex story than KSBD and yet it manages to be far more enjoyable while reading it page by page at the same time enjoyable and well put together as volumes. If this is a conscious decision on Abbadon's part to make the serial experience worse so the trade experience is more enjoyable, well he can deal with all the complaints that the serial experience sucks.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Most of my criticisms about KSBD spring from the simple fact that he in no way accommodated the medium. The main way people read his comic is online, over what has now been YEARS, but he's plotting out and writing the shit like it's a bog-standard graphic novel. And I will say, the pacing feels a hell of a lot better when you can sit down and read a volume all at once but a lot of his problems stem from this. The Cio situation for example, she died at the end of Volume 4, and if you read through she'd probably pop back up maybe halfway through Volume 5, not a terrible amount of time. But because the fandom is mostly reading it over weeks, months, and years, they have all that time to go b***h online about how their favorite gay gremlin is dead and how he's homophobic for killing her. So he preempts it by basically spoiling a plot beat YEARS in advance. Sure, the hypothetical reader in 10 years time that gets to sit down and read it all at once without random Internet spoilers will probably enjoy it, but the vast majority of his readership is reading it RIGHT NOW. He's making zero concessions to how he's actually releasing his material due to some high-minded belief that doing so would compromise his art or something. Plus he can't just keep his mouth shut about random elements of the story. How much did we already know about Jadis and the other Demiurges before we even saw them?
Compare this to Unsounded, where the author consistently not only acknowledges and plans for the medium, but takes advantage of it. There's even a similar case of a character being killed off years ago and only recently being revealed to be alive and what did the author do? Stay mum and never directly answer anything related to the character's death, so much so that most of the fandom only started to suspect the character's return only a short time before they came back. Any answers the author gives are about the backstory and never anything relevant to the main plot.
My guess is Abby figures most readers don't bother with twatter. It's "outside" material for the truly autistic that the rest of us can ignore.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The point is that he is actively diminishing the appeal of his comic through the use of Twitter as the most obsessed of his fans do not want the explanations and actual plot spoilers he is giving. And anybody who does want those details are stupid and shouldn't be catered to because these spoilers serve no positive advantage to the storytelling besides being spoilers.
>Just ignore it
We can't, because someone will post them. The alternative is to ignore the entire thread, which would just kill the thread.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>We can't, because someone will post them.
That really is the key point, it's not just the obsessives that are going to see it because any discussion about any of it is going to have one of those obsessives eventually show up and say "achksually, on Twitter Abbadon said...." The information is out there and will poison any attempt at conversation about it. So the only alternative is to now participate in any discussion at all until it's completely finished, which is very much not how it works despite how badly he wants it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Look, we've done enough b***hing. So here's the actual question we have to answer now or in some later thread:
"Is it possible to tell Abby how he's fricking this up?"
Some number of us agree that he's just driving this wagon slowly towards some kind of cliff. There has to be a way to tell him right? I often hope he's lurking these threads but it just doesn't seem like the case. The problem here is that there's usually an editor looking over this shit and telling the artist what does or doesn't work. And I feel like the editor at his publisher just isn't really doing their job unless they're just totally down for shitty manga-grade plot development. How do we tell him to stop fricking posting this shit on social media and have some kind of discipline about it. It doesn't fricking help his product at all. He can't prove those morons on Twitter buy his books anymore than he can prove we do so there's no measurable value to it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well he does have an account that he posts somewhat regularly with on the something awful thread but by god those guys have gone straight past circlejerking and circlesucking staight into hivemind territory. Some singular posters raising displeasure with current events got treated like an actual attack on their deity and when abaddon does pop up there worship is the closest word for how they treat him.
It's the only forum that i know of where he has an active presence but that environment coddles him enough that i doubt you could get anything through on there.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Maybe comment on his Patreon?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>This very successful artist does something I don't like. I hoped he reads this threads, but week ago I CLEARLY said I don't like the thing and it's STILL there. Therefore I conclude the author has no idea how bad (i.d. disliked by me) this thing is. How do we let him know that I, a random reader, don't like some feature of his work?
I swear you can't make this shit up. Never change Cinemaphile.
2 years ago
Anonymous
stfu
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's his story, man.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I thought he’s kinda done with it, and wants to move to the next project already.
If you don’t like it, maybe leave and come back when it’s finished y’know.
I don't think Abby has lied. I think the problem here is there are idiots in the readership who think things being explicitly said in the story are lies because they think the story is fundamentally about lying, which it isn't because the use of the word "lying" is a metaphor for imposing your will upon creation. Lying is just a poetic way of saying that.
It's like, there's a character, everyone says he's the king of the devils, he calls himself the king of the devils, and he says he never lies - and the audience is like, "OH MY GOD HE MUST BE A LIAR".
2 years ago
Anonymous
I mean the kind of lie where the narrative hasn't made good on itself for years.
It varies from page to page. I didn't see Allison floating on 1-2, for example, and some of the Jadis pages just have a black background. I'm going through the archives now to check for myself.
>some of the Jadis pages just have a black background
I just skipped back 6/7 chapters and it seems that Abby just changed the website background to the shape. Personally I think it should have been this page only, cause if someone starts reading today they're gonna see the new bg. They won't know what it is, sure, but still. Also, either he leaves this as the bg forever, or he has to change it so it's specific to this page only anyway.
I think it fits with the theme of 'Allison seeing the underlying shape of reality' for her to be perceiving the background image of the whole website, not just that page.
As you said, a new reader won't know what they're looking at, so it might hit them even harder than it did us when they get to this page.
it might fit but it's very bright and distracting to read a comic against
if I were him I'd probably turn down the gamma or saturation on this image on every page except for this particular one
True.
Another minor problem is that it makes the comments on the website harder to read. As well as the lore stories beneath some pages. I don't know much about making websites so I don't know how hard it would be to make it so that once you scroll down it was a black background (Like making the bg twice as tall and making the bottom half black, and once you scroll far enough the background stops scrolling, if that makes sense). This would also hide the main part of the shape making the reveal that much sweeter for new readers.
I assume it's temporary, if shes seeing the wheel then she is seeing everything at once, i.e. the wheel is now in the background of every past event of the comic.
My guess is she won't be "broken" by it like Jadis, and when she overcomes seeing the wheel the background will go back to normal.
'Look at the majesty sideways and all you see is the Tower, which our ancestors made idols from. Look at its center and all you see is the begotten hole, second serpent, womb-ready for the Right Reaching, exact and without enchantment.'
Sixth:
'The heart of the second serpent holds the secret triangular gate.'
Seventh:
'Look at the secret triangular gate sideways and you see the secret Tower.'
Eighth:
'The secret Tower within the Tower is the shape of the only name of God, I.'
I think Allison's about to learn her first syllable. The Tower is about physical and mental durability, the kind of thing you would need to see the totality of creation and still be able to utter the word "I".
It's incredibly cool, but being able to scroll around on the webpage to get a sense of the frickhuge scale is even cooler and I'm mildly sad this will not be able to be captured in print.
Ideally the print company Abby uses will know how to properly deal with a spread so the image doesn't get pinched. However this will probably not happen, since even the fricking big 2 can't figure that shit out
>too late for the cya threads >too late for throne in hd >too late for showdown in mottoks palace >too late for mortal kombat in vault of mammon >just in time to witness shape of creation.
>update makes a change to previous pages to create a "reveal"
Luckily this will almost certainly go better for KSBD than it did for the comic on whose forums KSBD began. Though both will lead to the resurrection of a b***hy blue waifu
>"Is it that I *cant*, or that you're not letting me? I CAN be here." >"You're a rock, you can't do that!"
15 years of webcomic to get to this and he'll still need to spell it out on twitter for the shortbus readers
Abby spent a decade, five books so far, and tens of thousands of man-hours into developing his concept of Royalty-is-not-caring-but-not-in-a-violent-way, with five hundred ancillary poems about how a sword is useless but also Royalty is To Cut, but also if you try to reach Royalty you will never, but also Reach Heaven Through Violence Golden Baby.
Most people left the theater with a better understanding of the concept , and all you needed was the scene where omniscient goddess 1 is dressed like a clown and fights the other omniscient goddess 2 in front of the everything bagel and opens her arms instead of striking a kung fu pose.
That's it thats the whole of KSBD. Thats the concept.
>This show has been on my to-watch-list for a while now.
It's funny and relatively clever, but it took a couple of episodes for it to "click" with me. The first few episodes were just tedious.
It's hard to predict what Allison's reaction is going to be because we aren't 100% sure she's about to see what Jadis saw or if any of this whole experience is real or just a Jadis-inflicted mindfrick.
To me, the effort put into this page obviously means it's real. But I don't know what the frick we're supposed to think if we were actually able to view the whole of creation from afar. I mean wouldn't it just look like a pile of galaxies in a void and in this case a pinpoint of light that represents Throne at the center?
My personal guess as to what will happen here is that Allison sees creation and it's just a plain old thing like I said. But Metatron is there and it's not actually looking at creation that so damaged Jadis and Aesma but that Metatron fricking deep fried both of them. And I think it's really necessary that Metatron be there because it's so necessary to explicitly point at him as the next boss fight in this whole story. As for whether Metatron roasts Allison or not I don't know because I don't know where the frick the story is going anymore.
Why would Metatron be here just to roast Allison? He'd be more effective sending a gang of Thorns to kill her and take her Key. 6 Juggs would love to be on that team.
And are you saying Metatron damaged Aesma?
I'd argue Metatron is beyond causality, but he isn't hanging out on the wheel.
I think that at some point Metatron has to make an appearance to Allison. And I think this is that moment. Yes, I'm also suggesting when Aesma and Jadis went to the edge of creation Metatron was there and was the reason they were swatted them down. I think that is a convenient explanation for what happened to them.
I don't have a reason why I think this. I just know that it's necessary Metatron escalates to a more active player in the story and like all bad television shows what better place to do that than the start of the final season (book). And because I don't know what the frick is happening in the story with all this time travel, cycles, and predestination shit so I think my explanation is a logical direction regardless of what the point of this whole story is. At the end of the day at some point Metatron MUST enter the picture in a big way and this seems like a good point for it.
Yeah it makes sense right? He roasted Aesma and Jadis and one could say he roasted Zoss the hardest of them all.
To me it's the only way to write the story and tie up several threads if Metatron is the monster waiting at the edge of creation. I think allowing Jadis' family to spend generations and lifetimes of effort to build a machine that allows anybody to access the director's chair of creation only to punk Jadis and gift her with the curse of foresight is sufficiently cruel for an eternal pissed-off creator. I mean why not prank an entire thousands year old scientific discipline right? It's the theological equivalent of searching the stars for alien life only to discover that the aliens you find just want to eat, rape, and steal your natural resources and have a vastly superior means to wage war than you do.
And then at the end of it all Metatron just looks at Allison and says he's not going to tell her jack shit, she can't do shit about it and dumps her back on Jadis' porch. And Jadis can be like "I knew that was going to happen, I'm sorry it had to happen, and I'd really like you to kill me right now but I know you won't." And the story can just move on to the next thing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's hard to predict what Allison's reaction is going to be because we aren't 100% sure she's about to see what Jadis saw or if any of this whole experience is real or just a Jadis-inflicted mindfrick.
To me, the effort put into this page obviously means it's real. But I don't know what the frick we're supposed to think if we were actually able to view the whole of creation from afar. I mean wouldn't it just look like a pile of galaxies in a void and in this case a pinpoint of light that represents Throne at the center?
My personal guess as to what will happen here is that Allison sees creation and it's just a plain old thing like I said. But Metatron is there and it's not actually looking at creation that so damaged Jadis and Aesma but that Metatron fricking deep fried both of them. And I think it's really necessary that Metatron be there because it's so necessary to explicitly point at him as the next boss fight in this whole story. As for whether Metatron roasts Allison or not I don't know because I don't know where the frick the story is going anymore.
>metatron deep fried Aesma
Uh-oh, speed reader alert. Metatron is only an angel while Aesma was a goddess. She literally lifted creation overhead and beat up an ancient evil deity with it. Metatron couldn't even touch Aesma on the best day of his life.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>He (Metatron) roasted Aesma
What the frick are you even saying here???
Juggernaut also has to return to the story and talk to Allison so it would also make sense to achieve that with an appearance by Metatron. They could also explain that they sent White Chain to control and murder her if necessary so maybe Allison can have a moment where she reflects on how much of a c**t she was and why White Chain could have but didn't put her down at the tournament.
I predict the angels will appear after Allison deals with Jadis, but you're right to expect Jugs and Metatron soon. It's time for him to come back on the scene again. I want to see Himself too since they're all back on Throne.
And the Jadis thing is possible, but Aesma did what she did and died long before Metatron set up his trap, maybe even long before Metatron was even created by Koss. I can see him fricking over Jadis, but he had no reason to attempt the same to Aesma. Not to add that Aesma was royalty and a god while Metatron was just god's scribe.
Haven’t seen Himself for awhile, I mean I suspect he’s a dropped plot line, but could be cool if he’s there to stop Allison losing her shit.
Seem to recall he wants something out of her, and she’s no good if she’s a baked potato.
>the revelation is that they are canonically in the webcomic hosted at killsixbilliondemons dot com >jadis' machine is the ability to make an alpha layer and transcent the comic >jadis' power and also curse is having read the comic >she literally doesnt exist if shes not in the comic, says her lines, disappears again >"the wheel" is you going back and forth to see jagganoth's cool war form again for fun and reforming the complete universe again every time >jagganoth's plan is to take down the server >metatron's plan is to go back to the formless tumblr era where there was no "allison" or plot at all
i wouldnt like it
>Allison saw the Tower within the Black Sun, a line inside a circle >Zoss' sign is prominent in architecture in the central ring of throne (Sacred Spoke). It is though to either represent an actual key, or the holy concept of Division (a line splitting a circle)
Ok that's real fricking neat
Jagganoth's tiny red foot bench gets a laugh out of me. When was he ever small enough to sit on it? Even as a "regular" human the dude was huge like a truck.
It feels like I understand this comic on a surface level while you gays are like fifteen million miles below me discussing things like "basic geometry", "bible studies", and "fishing".
How do I get to the same level? Where do I start digging?
It's not actually that deep. Zoss and the seven deadly demiurges are all immensely powerful but each trapped by their own bullshit. The demiurges have more personal issues but Zoss has been rolling the whole universe in a time loop and people are getting real sick of his shit.
Yes, but how does that explain the demiurges' amazing aptitude for fishing?
And why is Allison destined to become the master baiter?
And why is no one explaining to metatron that blowing the lake up with dynamite will do much more than just give him the deadliest catch possible?
>Yes, but how does that explain the demiurges' amazing aptitude for fishing?
Because fishing is inescapable.
>And why is Allison destined to become the master baiter?
Because she was given the master bait and fishing is inescapable. And if one fishes with the master bait, how can one be anything but the master baiter?
>And why is no one explaining to metatron that blowing the lake up with dynamite will do much more than just give him the deadliest catch possible?
Because fishing is inescapable, even for Metatron.
>I want-
Good start already. >Can you achieve it by never touching the sword, being weak, poor and not knowing anyhing?
Good example is Hansa. Question god, don't fear fate, and don't let go of your pipe.
So how long ago has it been since you all started reading? For me it was the war of the teacups, which is fricking forever ago to think of it now. I remember when Abbadon still showed up in these threads too.
I started reading in the middle of Maya's flashback with Meti. I think it was either the page with "particularly sharp rock" or "if you wanted the rat to live".
I've been reading since page 2 or 3 I think. It was super slow back then so I would go a couple of months between reading. Still miss the original art he had of the early pages before he colored it.
I can't remember when. I remember starting very early on when it was all still in black and white, and then eventually he started slowly updating every page in color.
A few months ago I saw some picks from the Jaganoth battle and decided to finally read it. Killed it in a few days and now I just need to forget about it for half a decade and do that again.
I first encountered it when he was about two or so chapters in. It was too overwhelming for some reason and I shelved and forgot it. By the time I tried again, I think Allison was about to enter Mottom's flying fortress.
Abby spent a decade, five books so far, and tens of thousands of man-hours into developing his concept of Royalty-is-not-caring-but-not-in-a-violent-way, with five hundred ancillary poems about how a sword is useless but also Royalty is To Cut, but also if you try to reach Royalty you will never, but also Reach Heaven Through Violence Golden Baby.
Most people left the theater with a better understanding of the concept , and all you needed was the scene where omniscient goddess 1 is dressed like a clown and fights the other omniscient goddess 2 in front of the everything bagel and opens her arms instead of striking a kung fu pose.
That's it thats the whole of KSBD. Thats the concept.
>omniscient goddess 1 is dressed like a clown and fights the other omniscient goddess 2 in front of the everything bagel and opens her arms instead of striking a kung fu pose.
A royal way to describe it.
Last year in march, so that was the tournament on rayuba I think. I think I started reading it once even before that but I don't know why I didnt commit.
I can't really remember, sometime around 2016 I think. But I've only started coming to these threads since this chapter started. It's weird to see how much lore you don't get unless you're talking to other autists.
Regarding Jadis' title
we know she's the current bearer of the shape of the universe and former bearer of mind, so if omniscience doesn't grant understanding of the mind aspect of God, then what does the word mind entail? Scientific curiosity and knowledge?
>The Gate. The Path. The Light. The Door. The Candle burning to the floor.
This is scary as frick. I'm more unnerved about this than anything else that's happened so far t b h.
What are you, twelve? Did you crawl out of forum.spacebattles? Go back there, nerd.
I can't wait for The fishing edit where The Wheel is one continuous Casting motion
the shape of the wheel is a hook
>Everybody do the dinosaur
God damn it, anon.
Nice.
JADIS LANDED IN A ROCKETSHIP
HEALED A COUPLE OF LEPERS
(she should not be looking at it)
new page tomorrow supposedly
nice
the first time in a while that a comic panel made me feel uneasy
>Phositive
if you think about it, jadis's black hole of nothingness is exactly what the lunarians want
I hope Jesus comes down from the heavens and damns all the Lunarians to the 9th layer of hell
amen
You should be anon
What was the last time anon? Where did the HnK hurt you? Was it the 10 000 years? Is that it?
HnK was a constant parade of agony but I enjoyed how it hurt me
Is that two people? Who are they?
That’s the wheelchair you dingus
>t. an ant
I'm not the idiot who broke basic scene transition rules by pointing the character in the completely opposite direction when setting her up in the other direction for the rest of the page.
Opposite direction? What?
He’s just angry because he’s partially blind, pay him no heed.
beat me to it
THIS
remember tumblerina, what has Abaddon's whole arc been since Lancer-guy corrupted him?
Alice's Danni Tarbaby. She will break the wheel. She won't perpetuate what our evil patriarchal ancestors have imposed upon us. She will break all the rules to ascend the Spire to a state of pure communism.
So why is she being told nothing matters?
Because that's how she feels right now: despondent. Apathetic. By rubbing her face in it, asian-archon's blowing on the embers of her defiance, liable to stoke them into a flame. Eventually Alice will go shonen protagonist and cry-out
>NO! EXISTENCE HAS TO HAVE MEANING! I WILL PROVE YOU WRONG!
and that's what asian-farseer wanted all along.
THen she will return her consciousness to her body. Because she's ready to take-on all challengers, even Jagganoth gain. If Alice woke-up all fricked-up, feeling as low as she already does, seeing her missing limbs, she would become absolutely crushed, incapable of the necessary fight to come.
You're sort of right but you talk like a fricking schizo. The theme of the comic has always been change over stagnancy, breaking down ossified systems to build something new.
Jadis IS that system, personified. She's not trying to inspire Allison to do anything, she's literally just an npc reciting a few lines that were prewritten before creation began.
It's like you're playing Morrowind and you have a chat with Vivec. Sure, in the context of the game, he's an all powerful god, but all his lines are still just prewritten, as are all your responses. All you can do is click through them, and all he can do is repeat them. There is no agency in that exchange, Vivec isn't actually communicating with YOU, the player.
inb4 CHIM
>schizo
no I'm not Ashkenazi.
Kys Ashkecommie.
>be gentle, it's me first time
>be gentle, it's me first time
So we're absolutely getting a reveal of METATRON'S plan soon, right?
Probably.
So we're about to find out this was indeed all just some projection into Allison's mind, and she will actually wake up without her arm, leg and eye.
CHOCOLATE!?
underrated
>Aren’t you cold, Alison?
>I remember when they first invented Royalty
>sweet, sweet Royalty
>I always HATED IT
>That joke is older than people who can post on Cinemaphile
Ok so why did she suddenly become a skeleton
My best guess is that if the Machine is activating and Allison is beginning to see "everything", then she is also seeing through Jadis's illusions.
Home Alone 2 reference.
Allison is seeing Jadis as she currently is now that the machine is active.
But since time is an illusion one can argue that the fleshy version of Jadis Allison was seeing before is real as well.
The black sun will make all the billion lesbians straight.
>Gay guy's butthole
needs a goatse edit
soo, this makes it yet more obvious this is all in her head, right?
Does it really matter if it is real or not if Allison believes it is real?
>allison changes the future, jadis goes along with the change as if it has always been that way
if magic is lying to God then whoppers to demiurges should be simple
>if magic is lying to God
That's a real heavy phrase right there. Some would argue that it is, especially the Arts in KSBD.
It's literally how the Art have been described in KSBD, even if I don't remember where. You lie with so much conviction that the universe believe it.
I'm sorry but what's the point of all this?
Why rescue and revive Allison just to tell her nothing matters?
Feels like Abby's just going through with this because there was nowhere else to put Jadis' characterization
>I told you exactly what you needed to hear
I'm guessing Jadis is trying to trick Allison into giving up her key willingly. Or to simply just give up so the master key's power is no longer a variable in whatever 5D chess game Jadis is playing. So far in the story each Demiurge has reacted to the master key's presence differently. Mottom was scared of it, Mammon was indifferent towards it, Incubus wanted to use the key by proxy (control the person who controlled it), Solomon seemed to want its power to be mastered and properly used, Gog tried to trick Allison into getting wormed (certainly so Gog could claim its power), and Jagganoth very straightforwardly tried to take it by force.
>and Jagganoth very straightforwardly tried to take it by force.
He was the one who made me realize how few of the people who possessed a key were actually capable of doing that, him, solomon, zoss...?
Gog really just made the offer, and it was pretty straightforward. No deceit involved at all.
>Why rescue and revive Allison just to tell her nothing matters?
Because that's what Jadis does. How hard is it to get? She's an automaton
>I'm sorry but what's the point of all this?
Jadis the nihilist would say nothing.
>Why rescue and revive Allison just to tell her nothing matters?
It's in the universal script. Jadis didn't choose to do it; she had to do it.
Or maybe, she has to do it, and so she chooses to do it.
>Jadis
>chooses
You don't get it. Jadis has no free will anymore. To choose in spite of being predetermined to make that choice is something an aspiring royal would do.
If causality is
>you’ll do it because you’ll do it
Some combination of
>it makes total sense for me to do that!
Plus
>I don’t like it, but malarky and circumstances are gonna conspire to force me to do that
Are gonna make you do it, even if external observers think it’s pointless.
Jadis is literally not a person, she has less autonomy than a fricking rock. She said that nothing matters because that is what the script has written.
Maybe it'll give Allison some critical mystic understanding that she can parlay into an actual motivation and we can finally get back to the plot.
>Hey, looking at this utterly destroyed my sense of self and willpower. Wanna check it out?
Jadis is kind of a b***h
Themesong.
Abaddon doesn't know about vril.
I never quite understood what the song is about, are they asking for oblivion? Or a good catch?
>Incubus B. Peterson
>Solomen Shapiro
>The Mammon Rogan Experience
Who are the other demiurges?
>
>The Rachael Mottom Show
>Zyklon Ben Allison
>Alex Jonegganoth
>The entirety of Fox News is just Gog Agog
>The entirety of CNN is also just Gog Agog
>NBC, ABC, Buzzfeed, all Gog'd
>the only un-worm'd publications out there are shitty tabloids and they just talk about how everyone's Gog'd
We have that for real right now
I still don’t really understand how Abby can say the his universe is predetermined and there’s nothing after death in his world when magic is literally lying to change the universe and spirits of the dead beg you for money on the side of the street. I assume it’s gonna be explained better in more detail later but that seems inconsistent with what we know of the universe so far.
YISUN is a consummate liar. There are rules imposed upon you, yet simultaneously you can break those rules if you aren't aware that they exist.
May I offer you a cool, delicious plum, anon?
>https://killsixbilliondemons.com/?comic=ksbd-3-45
I mean we know the universe is predetermined, that's literally Metatron's plan. It's the central motivator for both Zoss and Jagganoth to escape that predetermination
>when magic is literally lying to change the universe
Except those changes are already predetermined. Cio uses the Red Art in the Vault because Allison led her to the Vault, and Allison led her to the Vault because Cio met Allison in Throne, and so on.
>spirits of the dead beg you for money on the side of the street
That's not true life, those are just animate skeletons feebly repeating a few words and phrases. In the setting, when your soul flame goes out, it goes out for good. There's no "elsewhere" it can go
Death is just destruction of the body. Your soul goes into the Void which is just another place that exists. But after the soul is destroyed? Nothing.
>the Void
It's been a while since the void was mentioned, but at least once I want to see the void again. Specifically off the path where you might encounter shades or angels fighting devils in the wild. It seems like one of the last wild truly inhospitable locations in the comic.
It all exists within the universe aka the wheel
outside it, nothing as you understand it exists.
I don’t know why but this greatly diminishes my interest in the setting. I hate when authors limit their setting, especially a fantasy one. I’ll still stick around but I gotta say answering this stuff on twitter and not just leaving it up to interpretation takes the wind out of the sails
This is why I always avoid reading up on authors, they’re unfortunately usually giant tools
Hold on. Wasn't there some eternal return bullshit implied before. (And also that it was a bad thing that had to be stopped?)
There's two options here.
Abbs has absolutely fallen down the rabbit hole of honestly believing this is how the real world works and is just deluding themselves.
Or
We're playing an elaborate long con because Yisun is a b***h and a liar, and that has been established since the very beginning of the comic.
I'm hoping for the second option. Yisun said that if one wants to serve them faithfully, you shouldn't adhere rigidly to the rule and laws of the multiverse Yisun made. But I'm not sure Abaddon can stick to the landing
First law of Yisun is that he is a liar. Everything is a lie.
EVERYTHING.
You, life, death, the dirt under your feet, the air you breathe, the words I've typed and that you've read. Lies.
We are all Yisun for we are all but one single part of his separation, which in and of itself is a lie.
It's the fricking FMA bit, one is all and all is one.
Everything can be predetermined because everything is Yisun, there's no life after death because there is no death, or life for that matter.
All is Yisun, Yisun is All.
>First law of Yisun is that he is a liar. Everything is a lie.
>It's FMA!
It's TES. Yisun's lie defines the universe. Therefore, in order to break free, your lie has to be more powerful than Yisun's.
Ok so what the frick is up with Zoss if he isn't some ghost inside Allison's key?
He's still alive, because he is true Royalty, and true Royalty doesn't care about something as banal as death.
No, he's definitely dead. He just doesn't care that logically being dead should prevent you from showing up and giving speeches and all that. Because logic is for losers.
Zoss is a special case cause he was Royalty. There's no afterlife in the KSBD universe.
Well Hansa b***hed for ages after his shameful daughter failed to give him a proper burial
Damn, so Jadis is right? I don't know how to feel about this.
>uses a setting where superb thick-headedness allows someone to rewrite reality
>whines he has to double down on concepts and stuff
Isn't this a self-own more than anything?
>Fate is not a cage except for those who fear it
Wonder how Allison will apply this knowledge to overcome the ultimate fatalism? Will Allison know everything that will happen to her after this point? While the audience doesn't?
If I were Allison I'd conjure up a bottle of Jack Daniels right now and drink until I forget I'm seeing the entirety of the universe in front of me. I'd want to die as much as Jadis the next morning, but I'd be better off.
It's been a while since Al-YISUN embraced valley girl culture. Throwback reference time?
I stopped reading this thing around the black guy's tournament arc
the heist was peak ksbd, it all went down since then
>missing out on Shingle Duddley's awesome tournament and the beardposting
Un-Royal.
This man doesn't fish. This man has no facial hair.
Curious what more pages we'll get tomorrow. Don't think even the patreon got a sneak peak.
>NO ONE did the needful yet
Fine, I'll do it myself
And an extra
Kek
Truly inspiring work.
ROYAL
abbadon must have really dug everything, eveywhere, all at once
I wonder about that, too. The parallels are so visible.
It's not like the ideas in the film are unique to it.
Abba's planned this for years, and Joy's omniscience is fundamentally way more limited than Jadis', she just perceives all her parallel lives, which rather changes the conclusions.
But that said, it's uncanny how Allison like Eve is and how Jadis-like Joy is. Eve was full fricking Royalty by the end (such as
)
jadis as she exists predates everything everwhere by like 5 years
Black sun over thron-adise
>Zoss is beheaded
>still sticks around because death is an illusion that he rejects
Gee, I wonder whether Jadis is an unroyal puppet of causality mindbroken by a lie they just accepted
The author JUST told you that there is no live after death, dummy. Have you considered that Zoss rejects time and space instead of death?
>believing his lies
What does the "word of god" matter when the setting itself is about god being a lying prick
I do get that as a creator it would be annoying to have people constantly trying to 'aha' your work when you try and explain things as clear as you can. But for ksbd the whole point it nothing is real and anything can happen if you try hard enough so tom really put himself in an irritating corner.
>nothing is real and anything can happen if you try hard enough
Even if this is actually true about the world why the frick Abby (or anybody) would entertain any questions that take absolutely bullshit nonsensical directions. In most stories tonnes of things can happen - a plane can come out of nowhere and kill everybody - it wouldn't be much of a story would it? It would be blatantly insane if he was doing some kind of meta-lying outside the story because "lying" is such a part of the main story. A reader who thinks "everything is a lie" is plainly moronic.
I don't know what the frick people are asking him so maybe I'm misjudging the situation. But that being said, it's fricking ridiculous he offers any explanations outside the comic or the blurb itself. The comic should speak for itself and it's a failure on his part if he fails to develop an idea properly on the pages itself as well as his failure if he's answering these questions in real-time before anybody has any idea what the frick is going on. Just like he has done here:
I mean why the frick are you explaining the contents of this page/book live?
Turns out Abby isn’t that good of a writer and he’s been leaning on memes and morrowind lore
He's just being autistic because people aren't taking things at face value that are meant to be.
People here b***h incessantly that Abby doesn't explain or develop the situations he writes well enough to make the compelling. But those people, myself included, accept the premise and declaration that that thing exists. We accept that yes, there's now fricking time travel in the story, we don't need to "double down" as Abby says that there is time travel we want to fricking know why the frick it's there or relevant. Why the frick does Abby feel the need to explain shit to morons who won't take shit at face value when his most pressing problem is the fact he doesn't explain why that shit exists at all especially when some of these concepts are pure literature poison.
>its easy for people who get obsessed with the idea of authors always trying to trick you
This is because people are fricking moronic and they've put up with authors LYING to their faces and tastelessly Shamalaning them to expect that a decently setup story has to pull the same shit when it doesn't have to. The author should make zero concessions to those people who want a shit story with needless twists and shit. The author should also recognize that these fricking morons think there's some meta-lying shit going on when anybody with experience in storytelling knows that flat-out lying to your audience is just the biggest fricking crime ever. So to expect Abby to lie to the audience, make the plane appear out of nowhere despite saying "there is no planes", is just demanding Abby be a shitty writer. He's got a lot of issues in his writing but he isn't fricking a hack.
You're getting obsessive. At least half the people calling Abby's meta explanations lies are just memeing. The rest are probably just misunderstanding what Abby's trying to say.
Well look, if you've read his Twitter I'll just take your word on it. Because all I've seen is his post and it just seems like he's spoonfeeding idiots. He's petting a burning dog either way as you've described both halves.
The plane comparison would make more sense if the setting has built its universe on the idea that people can make planes appear out of nowhere when you think hard enough - so when the author says "this scene is plane-free" its easy for people who get obsessed with the idea of authors always trying to trick you that they'd think otherwise.
I don't agree with them but I can understand how they come about. Getting obsessive about the Rules Of A Universe regardless of anything that is indicated by the actual story/author is a very internet thing to do.
>why the frick Abby (or anybody) would entertain any questions that take absolutely bullshit nonsensical directions.
Because the story is about our protagonist pushing past all the bullshit and preconceptions about how reality works and how the various demiurges she meets who have all created their own cages of stagnation have fricked themselves over for centuries and how she (unwittingly) rouses them out their respective bindings. Jadis is the final of two buttholes that need to get a wakeup call.
So when confronted with hard determinism and a crushing reality Alison has two choices, give in to the monotony of knowing the script or making her own and fate be damned. The latter being possible because the universe is ultimately something that can be bent to the strongest (or dumbest) of wills.
Agreed. Twatter has irreversibly ruined fandoms.
Yeah that shit is like an even worse version of his Jaghog reveal on tumblr and i will never stop hating it when he pulls this. If what he says in that tweet is true then great his story can be however he wants it to be and i'm invested enough to see how he handles it but i want those fricking REVEALS and HANDLING in the actual fricking story.
Seeing the shit he says in that tweet being revealed in the actual story is the entire point and him going of half wienered like this just because some people are confused and he can't just frickng make them wait is incredibly frustrating. It's just like the whole "yeah i know bury your gays is bad trust me this aint what it's gonna be" because frick me dude can't you just make your fricking story beats get some time in the oven before you take them out, Cio didn't even get to become cold on the ground before he tells us it's not gonna be permanent.
Most of my criticisms about KSBD spring from the simple fact that he in no way accommodated the medium. The main way people read his comic is online, over what has now been YEARS, but he's plotting out and writing the shit like it's a bog-standard graphic novel. And I will say, the pacing feels a hell of a lot better when you can sit down and read a volume all at once but a lot of his problems stem from this. The Cio situation for example, she died at the end of Volume 4, and if you read through she'd probably pop back up maybe halfway through Volume 5, not a terrible amount of time. But because the fandom is mostly reading it over weeks, months, and years, they have all that time to go b***h online about how their favorite gay gremlin is dead and how he's homophobic for killing her. So he preempts it by basically spoiling a plot beat YEARS in advance. Sure, the hypothetical reader in 10 years time that gets to sit down and read it all at once without random Internet spoilers will probably enjoy it, but the vast majority of his readership is reading it RIGHT NOW. He's making zero concessions to how he's actually releasing his material due to some high-minded belief that doing so would compromise his art or something. Plus he can't just keep his mouth shut about random elements of the story. How much did we already know about Jadis and the other Demiurges before we even saw them?
Compare this to Unsounded, where the author consistently not only acknowledges and plans for the medium, but takes advantage of it. There's even a similar case of a character being killed off years ago and only recently being revealed to be alive and what did the author do? Stay mum and never directly answer anything related to the character's death, so much so that most of the fandom only started to suspect the character's return only a short time before they came back. Any answers the author gives are about the backstory and never anything relevant to the main plot.
Yeh, Cope is a grade above most webcomic creators as she really takes advantage of the medium, instead of just treating it like a regular comic. Also helps that she has meticulously planned out the story and doesn't care that, if a fan favourite character acts terribly despite if it would hurt the comic's popularity, because the character's actions make sense within the context of the story
I agree with you about Ab's spoiler habit, but it's unreasonable to expect any comic creator not to create in the context of the finished work. It doesn't matter if things falter from update to update; if the pacing of the finished work is spot-on, that's what's important.
But this is the failure of the webcomic medium. It's a terrible publishing method for shit that isn't gags. People only tolerate it because it's free.
You can create in the context of the finished work and be mindful about the medium you're using. Abbadon just recently cottoned on to one practice that Unsounded has been doing for years, posting a batch of pages at a time for particularly important scenes. You obviously don't want to change your entire story to make every page self-contained, otherwise you'll just turn into a gag a day, but if you're only putting out 1 page a week that 10 page sequence is going to lose any impact it has since it will be dissected and ranted about for 10 weeks. Far better to post the sequence all at once then take a break.
As I said before the pacing is far better in the volumes, but the reality of the situation is that for the past 9 years people have been reading it as a webcomic so ignoring the main way people are reading your work is just ridiculous. If the finished product is that important publish it like a graphic novel, once every 3-4 years, but trying to pretend the webcomic audience isn't the main one when he's creating the work just stupid. Unsounded has an even longer and more complex story than KSBD and yet it manages to be far more enjoyable while reading it page by page at the same time enjoyable and well put together as volumes. If this is a conscious decision on Abbadon's part to make the serial experience worse so the trade experience is more enjoyable, well he can deal with all the complaints that the serial experience sucks.
My guess is Abby figures most readers don't bother with twatter. It's "outside" material for the truly autistic that the rest of us can ignore.
The point is that he is actively diminishing the appeal of his comic through the use of Twitter as the most obsessed of his fans do not want the explanations and actual plot spoilers he is giving. And anybody who does want those details are stupid and shouldn't be catered to because these spoilers serve no positive advantage to the storytelling besides being spoilers.
>Just ignore it
We can't, because someone will post them. The alternative is to ignore the entire thread, which would just kill the thread.
>We can't, because someone will post them.
That really is the key point, it's not just the obsessives that are going to see it because any discussion about any of it is going to have one of those obsessives eventually show up and say "achksually, on Twitter Abbadon said...." The information is out there and will poison any attempt at conversation about it. So the only alternative is to now participate in any discussion at all until it's completely finished, which is very much not how it works despite how badly he wants it.
Look, we've done enough b***hing. So here's the actual question we have to answer now or in some later thread:
"Is it possible to tell Abby how he's fricking this up?"
Some number of us agree that he's just driving this wagon slowly towards some kind of cliff. There has to be a way to tell him right? I often hope he's lurking these threads but it just doesn't seem like the case. The problem here is that there's usually an editor looking over this shit and telling the artist what does or doesn't work. And I feel like the editor at his publisher just isn't really doing their job unless they're just totally down for shitty manga-grade plot development. How do we tell him to stop fricking posting this shit on social media and have some kind of discipline about it. It doesn't fricking help his product at all. He can't prove those morons on Twitter buy his books anymore than he can prove we do so there's no measurable value to it.
Well he does have an account that he posts somewhat regularly with on the something awful thread but by god those guys have gone straight past circlejerking and circlesucking staight into hivemind territory. Some singular posters raising displeasure with current events got treated like an actual attack on their deity and when abaddon does pop up there worship is the closest word for how they treat him.
It's the only forum that i know of where he has an active presence but that environment coddles him enough that i doubt you could get anything through on there.
Maybe comment on his Patreon?
>This very successful artist does something I don't like. I hoped he reads this threads, but week ago I CLEARLY said I don't like the thing and it's STILL there. Therefore I conclude the author has no idea how bad (i.d. disliked by me) this thing is. How do we let him know that I, a random reader, don't like some feature of his work?
I swear you can't make this shit up. Never change Cinemaphile.
stfu
It's his story, man.
I thought he’s kinda done with it, and wants to move to the next project already.
If you don’t like it, maybe leave and come back when it’s finished y’know.
Maybe Abs should STOP FRICKING LYING then? It's their own fault if this is the case.
I don't think Abby has lied. I think the problem here is there are idiots in the readership who think things being explicitly said in the story are lies because they think the story is fundamentally about lying, which it isn't because the use of the word "lying" is a metaphor for imposing your will upon creation. Lying is just a poetic way of saying that.
It's like, there's a character, everyone says he's the king of the devils, he calls himself the king of the devils, and he says he never lies - and the audience is like, "OH MY GOD HE MUST BE A LIAR".
I mean the kind of lie where the narrative hasn't made good on itself for years.
Black hole sun
Won't you come
And wash away the rain
Goatse?
HORY SHET UPDATE
Tiny Allison for tiny Zaid!
FRICK im moronic. Meaningless without screencap
The TRUE shape of the universe
I
>Let there be no Genesis, for beginnings are false and I am a consumate liar
>The Wheel truly is shaped like I
What the frick.
Jadis saw the Wheel on its side and probably crossed over. Then she lost her mind. But Jadis is incredibly smart so I think Allison will be fine.
this seems very exploitable
Tiny Zaid and tiny Allison falling into Jadis' enormous cleavage when?
we already had Tiny Zaid fall into Jadis' cleavage
Yes, now Tiny Allison can join him.
Next page isn't a page.
https://killsixbilliondemons.com/
>next page isnt a page
Not gonna lie, this sounds to cool.
>mfw I see the shape of all creation
It varies from page to page. I didn't see Allison floating on 1-2, for example, and some of the Jadis pages just have a black background. I'm going through the archives now to check for myself.
>some of the Jadis pages just have a black background
I just skipped back 6/7 chapters and it seems that Abby just changed the website background to the shape. Personally I think it should have been this page only, cause if someone starts reading today they're gonna see the new bg. They won't know what it is, sure, but still. Also, either he leaves this as the bg forever, or he has to change it so it's specific to this page only anyway.
I think it fits with the theme of 'Allison seeing the underlying shape of reality' for her to be perceiving the background image of the whole website, not just that page.
As you said, a new reader won't know what they're looking at, so it might hit them even harder than it did us when they get to this page.
it might fit but it's very bright and distracting to read a comic against
if I were him I'd probably turn down the gamma or saturation on this image on every page except for this particular one
Think also about future readers.
Allison will be staring at the shape of the universe that is the Kill Six Billion Demons website.
Meaning, if for some dumb reason Abbadon puts up something else on the background of the webpage, the shape will change canonically to that.
>website is hacked
>nothing changes except background becomes goatse
True.
Another minor problem is that it makes the comments on the website harder to read. As well as the lore stories beneath some pages. I don't know much about making websites so I don't know how hard it would be to make it so that once you scroll down it was a black background (Like making the bg twice as tall and making the bottom half black, and once you scroll far enough the background stops scrolling, if that makes sense). This would also hide the main part of the shape making the reveal that much sweeter for new readers.
I assume it's temporary, if shes seeing the wheel then she is seeing everything at once, i.e. the wheel is now in the background of every past event of the comic.
My guess is she won't be "broken" by it like Jadis, and when she overcomes seeing the wheel the background will go back to normal.
>sees the Wheel
>it's actually shaped like an "I"
That's literally been brought up before.
I know, but it is cool to finally see it.
fair
Spoilers for the next page.
what is the refrance
It's from the ending on 2001: A Space Odyssey. The protagonist ends up going through a brightly colored wormhole and wakes up in the White Room.
>This will be the setting for the rest of current and final book.
Nickocado edit when?
1000 hours in ms paint
Univussy
And to think, this was all extrapolated from a slice of fairy cake.
holy shit this is cool
Next page background.
Next page Allison only (This is technically the comic for today.).
Oh, shit duplicate file. Here it is
Both merged.
THE COSMIC COOCH
Right into the cosmic butthole with ye!
>Post YFW you saw the shape of the universe
bump
>"there is and now i am"
'Look at the majesty sideways and all you see is the Tower, which our ancestors made idols from. Look at its center and all you see is the begotten hole, second serpent, womb-ready for the Right Reaching, exact and without enchantment.'
Sixth:
'The heart of the second serpent holds the secret triangular gate.'
Seventh:
'Look at the secret triangular gate sideways and you see the secret Tower.'
Eighth:
'The secret Tower within the Tower is the shape of the only name of God, I.'
But what about the wheelchair? It has witnessed the shape of the universe as well
OMNISCIENT WHEELCHAIR
The Tower
Are we going to see the 7 Syllables of God?
You just saw the seventh
I think Allison's about to learn her first syllable. The Tower is about physical and mental durability, the kind of thing you would need to see the totality of creation and still be able to utter the word "I".
Damn, I hope he gets a good printer for this one.
That's up to Image comics
Eye of Sauron?
It's incredibly cool, but being able to scroll around on the webpage to get a sense of the frickhuge scale is even cooler and I'm mildly sad this will not be able to be captured in print.
How is this going to look in print?
Is the crease of the pages gonna make the I?
>the shape of the universe is a book
All of them look like shit in print, its sad but I own them all
Ideally the print company Abby uses will know how to properly deal with a spread so the image doesn't get pinched. However this will probably not happen, since even the fricking big 2 can't figure that shit out
Fishing edit, when?
Mobile display really fricked this moment up. Can only see the upper left quadrant zoomed all the way out.
Does anyone have that wallpaper someone made of Solomon's PERFECT KILL: TOTAL LIFE OBLITERATION because I lost it when I changed computers
THE GREAT ENEMY CALLED I
>too late for the cya threads
>too late for throne in hd
>too late for showdown in mottoks palace
>too late for mortal kombat in vault of mammon
>just in time to witness shape of creation.
Is this sequence going to end yet jesus christ this is dragging on.
>man sees the true shape of the universe, complains about pacing
hansa-sama, I kneel...
abby going [[full Homestuck]]
>update makes a change to previous pages to create a "reveal"
Luckily this will almost certainly go better for KSBD than it did for the comic on whose forums KSBD began. Though both will lead to the resurrection of a b***hy blue waifu
Inb4 Allison surpasses Aesma's ignorance and learns nothing from witnessing the shape of the universe, thereby overcoming Jadis's pessimism.
Allison: "Wait, it's just like the end of that boring Kubrick movie my friend made me sit through?" "Frick that."
Post effortlessly royal characters.
Does vivec ever use his vajayjay the same way he uses his milk finger?
Vivec's pussy(male) is exclusively for rape(consensual) by Molag Bal.
Not effortlessly at first, but by this point in the movie
I absolutely love that movie.
The parallels to this arc were uncanny. That scene in particular was the most Royal shit I've ever seen
>What the frick!? you can't do that
>Who cares, nothing matters. Now come here
>"Is it that I *cant*, or that you're not letting me? I CAN be here."
>"You're a rock, you can't do that!"
15 years of webcomic to get to this and he'll still need to spell it out on twitter for the shortbus readers
What movie?
Everything Everywhere All At Once
It goes a bit overboard at a few points, but overall it's without a doubt my movie of the year so far.
Abby spent a decade, five books so far, and tens of thousands of man-hours into developing his concept of Royalty-is-not-caring-but-not-in-a-violent-way, with five hundred ancillary poems about how a sword is useless but also Royalty is To Cut, but also if you try to reach Royalty you will never, but also Reach Heaven Through Violence Golden Baby.
Most people left the theater with a better understanding of the concept , and all you needed was the scene where omniscient goddess 1 is dressed like a clown and fights the other omniscient goddess 2 in front of the everything bagel and opens her arms instead of striking a kung fu pose.
That's it thats the whole of KSBD. Thats the concept.
I feel like basing the comic on the idea of contradictions is destined to make it end in an unsatisfying way.
Especially considering it's being released page by page, i am enjoying the ride but i really see no way this series ends in a satisfying way.
So that's why these edits work soo well
>windbag
>leper
it's the little things
>Salami Dave is a fish
heh
Correct
Master of Knives is definitely Royal.
Royal in every sense of the word
DOUBLECHAD
DOUBLECHAD
Remind me what is this? I just rememver it wildly popular some time ago.
he's probably the least Royal guy in his own movie, unironically
he thinks a crown is what makes you king, imagine that
I really wish everyone would stop thinking Satan's same tired old lie is clever.
And that's the last one I have. There are more but I don't have them.
Why settle for some of them, when you can have all of them? Starting with the not-shit resolution version of the one you posted.
https://mega.nz/folder/zpV0EKbA#c_-6O4XBcy2cJug5Z1IuXQ
This show has been on my to-watch-list for a while now.
Good edit, anon.
>This show has been on my to-watch-list for a while now.
It's funny and relatively clever, but it took a couple of episodes for it to "click" with me. The first few episodes were just tedious.
That show rips your heart out of your chest and you say "thank you" while it does
He should have kept the background as normal but make it so that tiny Allison is on every page of the site.
What will Alison's reaction be?
Probably just confusion, shock, and fear unless Abbaddon pleasantly surprises us.
>unless Abbaddon pleasantly surprises us.
I hope so. Right now Allison is in the abyss.
oh so we're at half of the story
She's been in the abyss at least once already. I think if she goes again, she'll get a free sundae.
Arguably she could be at the Reward. Unless the actual final battle is with Metatron.
It's hard to predict what Allison's reaction is going to be because we aren't 100% sure she's about to see what Jadis saw or if any of this whole experience is real or just a Jadis-inflicted mindfrick.
To me, the effort put into this page obviously means it's real. But I don't know what the frick we're supposed to think if we were actually able to view the whole of creation from afar. I mean wouldn't it just look like a pile of galaxies in a void and in this case a pinpoint of light that represents Throne at the center?
My personal guess as to what will happen here is that Allison sees creation and it's just a plain old thing like I said. But Metatron is there and it's not actually looking at creation that so damaged Jadis and Aesma but that Metatron fricking deep fried both of them. And I think it's really necessary that Metatron be there because it's so necessary to explicitly point at him as the next boss fight in this whole story. As for whether Metatron roasts Allison or not I don't know because I don't know where the frick the story is going anymore.
Why would Metatron be here just to roast Allison? He'd be more effective sending a gang of Thorns to kill her and take her Key. 6 Juggs would love to be on that team.
And are you saying Metatron damaged Aesma?
I'd argue Metatron is beyond causality, but he isn't hanging out on the wheel.
I think that at some point Metatron has to make an appearance to Allison. And I think this is that moment. Yes, I'm also suggesting when Aesma and Jadis went to the edge of creation Metatron was there and was the reason they were swatted them down. I think that is a convenient explanation for what happened to them.
I don't have a reason why I think this. I just know that it's necessary Metatron escalates to a more active player in the story and like all bad television shows what better place to do that than the start of the final season (book). And because I don't know what the frick is happening in the story with all this time travel, cycles, and predestination shit so I think my explanation is a logical direction regardless of what the point of this whole story is. At the end of the day at some point Metatron MUST enter the picture in a big way and this seems like a good point for it.
I mean, considering Metatron is the reason the cycle keeps happening it would make sense that he can keep people from interfering
Yeah it makes sense right? He roasted Aesma and Jadis and one could say he roasted Zoss the hardest of them all.
To me it's the only way to write the story and tie up several threads if Metatron is the monster waiting at the edge of creation. I think allowing Jadis' family to spend generations and lifetimes of effort to build a machine that allows anybody to access the director's chair of creation only to punk Jadis and gift her with the curse of foresight is sufficiently cruel for an eternal pissed-off creator. I mean why not prank an entire thousands year old scientific discipline right? It's the theological equivalent of searching the stars for alien life only to discover that the aliens you find just want to eat, rape, and steal your natural resources and have a vastly superior means to wage war than you do.
And then at the end of it all Metatron just looks at Allison and says he's not going to tell her jack shit, she can't do shit about it and dumps her back on Jadis' porch. And Jadis can be like "I knew that was going to happen, I'm sorry it had to happen, and I'd really like you to kill me right now but I know you won't." And the story can just move on to the next thing.
>metatron deep fried Aesma
Uh-oh, speed reader alert. Metatron is only an angel while Aesma was a goddess. She literally lifted creation overhead and beat up an ancient evil deity with it. Metatron couldn't even touch Aesma on the best day of his life.
>He (Metatron) roasted Aesma
What the frick are you even saying here???
Juggernaut also has to return to the story and talk to Allison so it would also make sense to achieve that with an appearance by Metatron. They could also explain that they sent White Chain to control and murder her if necessary so maybe Allison can have a moment where she reflects on how much of a c**t she was and why White Chain could have but didn't put her down at the tournament.
I predict the angels will appear after Allison deals with Jadis, but you're right to expect Jugs and Metatron soon. It's time for him to come back on the scene again. I want to see Himself too since they're all back on Throne.
And the Jadis thing is possible, but Aesma did what she did and died long before Metatron set up his trap, maybe even long before Metatron was even created by Koss. I can see him fricking over Jadis, but he had no reason to attempt the same to Aesma. Not to add that Aesma was royalty and a god while Metatron was just god's scribe.
>6 Jobbs
He's so fricking wasted goddamn
>he
He's a femboy I don't care what Abby says
Its He until they break into absolute royalty by making a demiurge bleed and get some weird Deus ex Machina transformation to be called She.
Haven’t seen Himself for awhile, I mean I suspect he’s a dropped plot line, but could be cool if he’s there to stop Allison losing her shit.
Seem to recall he wants something out of her, and she’s no good if she’s a baked potato.
Maybe Allison is gonna pull a Zaphod Beeblebrox and come out of the Total Perspective Vortex thinking she's the bees knees
Pretty sure the universe wasn't built for Allison making her the centre of creation.
Wait but...the comic WAS made for Allison. So the universe was made for Allison.
Not a bad idea, anon.
Is....
Is Alison going to see that reality is a comic?
Please Abby don't frick around like this.
>the revelation is that they are canonically in the webcomic hosted at killsixbilliondemons dot com
>jadis' machine is the ability to make an alpha layer and transcent the comic
>jadis' power and also curse is having read the comic
>she literally doesnt exist if shes not in the comic, says her lines, disappears again
>"the wheel" is you going back and forth to see jagganoth's cool war form again for fun and reforming the complete universe again every time
>jagganoth's plan is to take down the server
>metatron's plan is to go back to the formless tumblr era where there was no "allison" or plot at all
i wouldnt like it
>Jadis was scarred when she read the RP comments
Because it's one of the lowest forms of writing, in all honesty. No different from decades of what Marvel and DC do.
>Page title is literally "the tower"
ROYALTY = CHIM
>yfw every dead demiurge achieved royalty prior to death
I hope so for Grandpa's sake. Mottom's final stand was badass
Anyone check page code?
The page source? I didn't see anything interesting on a quick glance
>Allison saw the Tower within the Black Sun, a line inside a circle
>Zoss' sign is prominent in architecture in the central ring of throne (Sacred Spoke). It is though to either represent an actual key, or the holy concept of Division (a line splitting a circle)
Ok that's real fricking neat
Also, the On/Off symbol.
>placing his throne right under Zoss'
I love Shelly Duvall.
Jagganoth's tiny red foot bench gets a laugh out of me. When was he ever small enough to sit on it? Even as a "regular" human the dude was huge like a truck.
Does...does Allison have to stick the universe up her ladybits?
It feels like I understand this comic on a surface level while you gays are like fifteen million miles below me discussing things like "basic geometry", "bible studies", and "fishing".
How do I get to the same level? Where do I start digging?
Don't even start and just pretend you know already.
It's not actually that deep. Zoss and the seven deadly demiurges are all immensely powerful but each trapped by their own bullshit. The demiurges have more personal issues but Zoss has been rolling the whole universe in a time loop and people are getting real sick of his shit.
Yes, but how does that explain the demiurges' amazing aptitude for fishing?
And why is Allison destined to become the master baiter?
And why is no one explaining to metatron that blowing the lake up with dynamite will do much more than just give him the deadliest catch possible?
>Yes, but how does that explain the demiurges' amazing aptitude for fishing?
Because fishing is inescapable.
>And why is Allison destined to become the master baiter?
Because she was given the master bait and fishing is inescapable. And if one fishes with the master bait, how can one be anything but the master baiter?
>And why is no one explaining to metatron that blowing the lake up with dynamite will do much more than just give him the deadliest catch possible?
Because fishing is inescapable, even for Metatron.
Anon.
Fishing Edits = Funny stuff (varies)
This thing you are doing = cringe and AIDs.
Stop it.
Reach heaven through fishing.
I want to be the royal too. Can you achieve it by never touching the sword, being weak, poor and not knowing anyhing?
>I want-
Good start already.
>Can you achieve it by never touching the sword, being weak, poor and not knowing anyhing?
Good example is Hansa. Question god, don't fear fate, and don't let go of your pipe.
I feel like Im missing something here, why are we upset at abaddon?
He dared to post a few tweets.
Best way to handle it would be a pull-out mini poster attached to the binding, but we all know that's not gonna happen.
So how long ago has it been since you all started reading? For me it was the war of the teacups, which is fricking forever ago to think of it now. I remember when Abbadon still showed up in these threads too.
I read it through for the first time like 2 months ago. Book 3 was easily the peak. Even had best Allison.
I started reading in the middle of Maya's flashback with Meti. I think it was either the page with "particularly sharp rock" or "if you wanted the rat to live".
Started reading when breaker of infinities-4-131 was the newest page
I've been reading since page 2 or 3 I think. It was super slow back then so I would go a couple of months between reading. Still miss the original art he had of the early pages before he colored it.
I can't remember when. I remember starting very early on when it was all still in black and white, and then eventually he started slowly updating every page in color.
I have been reading since the art was still fun.
A few months ago I saw some picks from the Jaganoth battle and decided to finally read it. Killed it in a few days and now I just need to forget about it for half a decade and do that again.
I started reading right when Gog got her title card (right before tournament arc)
I first encountered it when he was about two or so chapters in. It was too overwhelming for some reason and I shelved and forgot it. By the time I tried again, I think Allison was about to enter Mottom's flying fortress.
>omniscient goddess 1 is dressed like a clown and fights the other omniscient goddess 2 in front of the everything bagel and opens her arms instead of striking a kung fu pose.
A royal way to describe it.
Last year in march, so that was the tournament on rayuba I think. I think I started reading it once even before that but I don't know why I didnt commit.
I can't really remember, sometime around 2016 I think. But I've only started coming to these threads since this chapter started. It's weird to see how much lore you don't get unless you're talking to other autists.
I think during the drinking contest against Vladok.
since it was an mspa fan adventure.
I remember shilling the comic to image on facebook by the end of the first arc.
Had to see the fandom go full LGBT moronation, but oh well, that's in the past now..
Couple of pages before Mammons’ title drop.
I remember checking some threads near the end of book 3 but really getting into the story at the beginning of book 4. So around mid-late 2018.
I really wonder how Allison is going to get out of this. What's she's experiencing right now has fricked up a god.
Same way Aesma got away with it the first time she glimpsed the universe.
Anon, Aesma didn't get away with it...
Aesma glimpsed the universe twice, anon. Reread Aesma and the Three Masters.
You don't need to see the shape of the wheel use it to beat a homie with it.
Wrong Aesma story.
You mean still living but burnt to a crisp? With a sample size of 2 people having seen the wheel, Allison will at least get burned.
Best Edit to End All Edits. There will never be one as royal as this.
Regarding Jadis' title
we know she's the current bearer of the shape of the universe and former bearer of mind, so if omniscience doesn't grant understanding of the mind aspect of God, then what does the word mind entail? Scientific curiosity and knowledge?