if souls are real how can they copy+paste your soul ? humans are not smart enough to have OBE's can you imagine them creating souls? lmao. reeddit tvseries for atheist nerds
Unironically this. They science up this explanation by saying you are continually conscious at both ends and throughout the transport (“consciousness” being materialist-speak for “soul”) but it’s the same idea.
>consciousness doesn't exist
I'm conscious right now, so I can affirm that it exists. I can't know with certainty that anyone else is conscious, I can only infer that they are based on their behavior. What I CAN know with absolute certainty is that you're a fricking moron
That's literally the point I just made, you fricking idiot. An individual can know that he is conscious, but he cannot know that anyone else is. Why don't you go back to r*ddit and learn some more philosophical jargon that you can throw around because you think it makes you sound smart but actually it just makes you sound like a moron because you clearly aren't capable of comprehending the underlying concepts.
It DOESN'T work because souls exist, you moron. You have a nice day and your soul leaves your body, what shows up on the other side is a soulless husk. This is why if they ever really did this you'd have to be worried that what appears on the other side will go crazy and start attacking everything and itself being a soulless husk.
>This is why if they ever really did this you'd have to be worried that what appears on the other side will go crazy and start attacking everything and itself being a soulless husk.
Sounds sort of like how they got the zombies in the original Doom.
Wouldn’t it be the opposite? If the machine is killing you and creating a copy, that means your “soul” went to the afterlife and the copy is a new person. Since souls don’t exist and your self comes from a particular arrangement of atoms and electrical impulses in your brain, the copy is you, no question about it.
Wouldn’t it be the opposite? If the machine is killing you and creating a copy, that means your “soul” went to the afterlife and the copy is a new person. Since souls don’t exist and your self comes from a particular arrangement of atoms and electrical impulses in your brain, the copy is you, no question about it.
Maybe the soul can split in two in case of a transporter duplication error. Imagine a line of continuity splitting. *Both* people produced would be the original person produced from the same continuity; it is only at the point of divergence they begin forming distinct memories.
Transporters separate the material body from the soul, causing a soul without a body to wander the universe for eternity. The commie materialist federation can’t understand this.
Seems like a hassle. Murdering and cloning seems way more complicated than just sending, so presumably the technology for the latter is more plausible.
portal technology seems a lot more plausible in a star trek super future scenario, but they'd need to have a physical gateway at both ends for it to work which doesn't play well with the way trek is written.
The best supporting character in all of TNG. Why'd those Black folk have to kill her off and bring Crusher and her stupid son back.
Pulaski was the only one with enough balls to stand up to Picard.
I missed her as soon as she was gone for several episodes before I accepted she wasn’t coming back.
I didn’t even notice Wesley/crusher were gone until over a season later.
RoddenberryMyDickInCrushersAss had sexual standards
And it nearly ruined the show by hiring Troi’s actor and making people pretend someone from an alien planet would have a thick South American accent and be barely able to speak english
Barclay had rightly figured out that the teleporter kills you and was scared to death of taking it but the crew basically bullycides him into committing suicide because they view the teleporter as being far too convenient and they don't want to be bothered to accomodate the ideas of others when it inconveniences them.
The parallels between their attitudes and the vaxxies against vax skepticists is almost 1:1. Barclay was 100% justified in his apprehension and he was 100% right about transporting but they killed him because they had all simply accepted the assurances of the teleport creator that the device was "perfectly safe" and never researched it themselves or thought about the logical implication of what being totally disintegrated and having your "biological pattern" reconstituted with totally different atoms meant. "Trust the experts citizen, they surely know what they're talking about and would never lie."
That's what the Heisenberg Compensator does, it implants false memories on the post-teleport clone to make it think that it was conscious the whole time.
It was called The Next Generation and she was at least twice the age of the rest of the cast.
So it implanted false memories which turned out to be true because there were people trapped in the matter stream and were only found because Barclay was conscious and aware of them and the weird matter stream monster?
That was hallucinations of data renderred in stasis. Man's mind could not interpret what was being implanted on it so it turned that into visions of aliens.
Funny you call me ignorant when you're the king of obtuseness, mr midwit.
it wouldn't have to implant new memories at all. It's copying every quantum particle perfectly, so every neuron in your brain will be exactly the same and in the same state as you leave. Your consciousness wouldn't even hiccup, it would be like nothing happened at all.
To an outside observer the copy is functionally identical to the original, but the original still ceases to exist
The fricked up part is that the answer to the transporter dilemna is "yes, but it doesn't really matter"
The Barclay episode proves transporters don’t kill people because he was conscious in the matter stream the whole time
'transporter psychosis' is just choosing not to ignore the obvious which understandably makes you very anxious. It's not actually a sickness. In reality, everyone else had the real 'transporter psychosis' and Barclay was the sane one.
>reconstituted with totally different atoms meant.
Aren't all atoms of the same element and isotope identical? It wouldn't matter if he was recomposed with different atoms as long as the molecular structure was all the same.
Barclay is the viewer/commentator stand in that they brought in to have a very special episode when the fans were being annoying about something.
The whole point of his transporter episode was “frick off stop talking shit on the bbs board it doesn’t kill you you c**ts this is a nice family show don’t be a bastard”
The worst part is that it's actually realistic that people would adopt it for its convenience because most people are moronic and don't like to think too hard about the "normal" things they do in their daily lives.
Meanwhile people like McCoy and Pulaski get looked at like absolute weirdos for not jumping into the suicide beam. That's just how it would go in real life.
This reminds of of the outer limits episode "Think Like a Dinosaur"
Michael Burr is the only permanent human occupant of the Tuulen station, situated on a vast empty plain of the Moon. His companions are the Hanen, an emotionless, dinosaur-like alien species who have developed a highly-advanced means of long-distance travel by 'jumping' through space. Achieved by creating an exact duplicate of the jumper, the copy is reconstituted at the destination point and the original destroyed, thus leaving only one.
The very first original Star Trek novel starts off with McCoy and Scotty having an argument over whether it kills you every time you use it or not. "Doc here is developing a notion that the transporter is a sort of electric chair," as Scotty dismissively describes it
So? “Scan, destroy, transmit, duplicate” is entirely (you) being unable to comprehend/imagine any other way for transporters to work, and is contradicted by the show itself multiple times.
IIRC >some do die from malfunction >episodes of major frick ups where people got merged/swapped >a couple outright clone episodes >stuck in the data episodes (you WILL DIE FOR REALS IF THE DATA IS LOST, somehow.)
Wasn't this bullshit also how moriarty got out and that ancient klingon got made?
Wasn’t there a scene in one of the movies where; I believe it was Scotty or Kirk, was stuck in the transporter for like 30 years or something. If it kills you and recreates you, then what actually is “stuck”? He was stuck in limbo basically, so there is a continuity of being.
It was his personal ship and it was trapped in the gravity well of a Dyson sphere, life support was failing so he looped himself in the transporter system.
>life support was failing so he looped himself in the transporter system
It put himself in a death and rebirth loop for an indefinite amount of time, just hoping that one day someone would save him?
But he was trapped. Why would you make yourself immortal in secret tomb? Sounds easy to handwave when that type of story is relayed after the person has been rescued but in a universe like that it sounds like hell for the person involved
3 months ago
Anonymous
He crashed on a dyson sphere. Stands to reason someone would find it/him.
The teleport: >scans you >kills you >transfers the scanned data to the teleport on the other side >the other side reconstructs you
Scotty's scanned himself then killed himself with the teleporter. TNG's away crew simply reconstructed him with the original transporter. Imagine a teleportation process but without moving through space and the first and last step are a couple years removed from each other.
You're the one spouting conspiracy theories about lift when they're completely irrelevant to the point at hand. What next, the bumblebee example?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>literally incapable of understanding he may not have a complete understanding of the universe
Unless you're around 12 or mentally moronic this is inexcusable.
All models are wrong, but some are useful.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Who are you quoting? What does that have to do with Star Trek's lack of understanding of interia and the overuse of pseudoscience babble?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Anon. You don’t understand how transporters work and are embracing a post-hoc explanation of how they work, that is contradicted numerous times by the show itself. Bernoulli’s wing is the gold standard of post-hoc bullshit that anyone can contradict by sticking their hand out a window of a moving car.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Like I said I do not care how Star Trek writers rationalise it considering how they treat laws of physics and even internal consistency.
Teleporters kill.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Anon it’s fiction. Transporters don’t exist.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Neither do I. I'm just a bot designed to entertain you.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Bernoulli's principle just started that fluids moving faster have less pressure than those moving slower. This can be applied in the design of a wrong, but Bernoulli himself never said that's where lift comes from, and I've only ever met one person who thought that's where all lift comes from.
I imagine common replicators have fairly restrictive safety measures so you're not able to replicate a bomb or mustard gas, but if you had a jailbroken one there's not much stopping you.
If you're dematerialized and your information is sent as a matter stream through a wormhole and rematerialized on the other side of the gate does your consciousness carry over?
riker and pulanski both murked their own clones in the metaphorical crib when they found out they were being duplicated without consent. the humans of star trek's era (or at least TNG) have a very strange set of beliefs and morals that combine collectivism, individualism, self sacrifice, and self protection - all at the same time. the things they care about they're willing to die horribly for and the things they don't care about they'll either ignore completely or destroy without remorse. i may have beeb completely stoned out of my gourd by my first impressions from s1/s2 of tng was that the federation and humanity has become surprisingly facist but in a very diplomatic and peaceful way
I guess that might make a sort of sense for the federation, but I find it hard to believe that there's no minor faction out there with no moral compunction about faxing a thousand copies of their best fighter into battle
that's the thing, do they even really "battle" at this point? probably 90% of all armed conflict is ship-to-ship or some kind of orbital bombardment
i'm sure also if it came to that, THEIR enemies, likely being the federation, would consequently have no compulsion with using their own transporter to start beaming these warrior clones out into open space
again, keep in mind, the federation DOES NOT even recognize clones of their own members as humans worthy of rights or their very lives. any sort of geneva convention esque protocols they follow for war would be out the window instantly should they go up against a clone army
>but I find it hard to believe that there's no minor faction out there with no moral compunction about faxing a thousand copies of their best fighter into battle
It's called The Dominion. Where do you think all the Jem'hadar and Vorta come from? It's not possible to create fully grown clones from test tube babies then to pregnancy from the exact genetic material over and over again. The genetic lineage would degrade over time and the later generations of Jem'hadar and Vorta would be deformed morons. It's also not possible for the clones to be fully mature immediately with full memories and experiences so that they can take on complex tasks. The only logical explanation is transporter duplicates ala Thomas Riker. It's why Weyoun considers it immortality. His consciousness is probably being transferred from duplicate to duplicate.
>he genetic lineage would degrade over time
Why, exactly? If you have teleporter capability that can keep track of quantum states, being able to copy dna would be easy. We can replicated DNA perfectly today even. To the point where we can store data such as images or videos in it.
The problem is that DNA is not perfect. You clone a 70 year old man and you will get an infant with the genetic deterioration of a 70 year old man. This normally results in nature taking over and causing miscarriages and infant mortality to erase genetic anomalies.
I'm talking about old fashioned cloning from Dolly the Sheep. Clones are test tube babies then transferred to wombs. Then the specimen gives birth to the clone. Then the clone grows over time and develops like a normal person.
To replace legions of fallen Jem'hadar clones quickly they would have to use a transporter device. The Jem'hadar and Vorta are not clones. They are duplicates. That's why Geordi came to the conclusion that there was no original Riker anymore. The transporter created two "original" Rikers by accident. They both were the "real" Riker.
3 months ago
Anonymous
cloning and DNA creation have come a long way since dolly. We can manually adjust the DNA sequence to the point of using it to store data (like images) that can be downloaded and recreated.
3 months ago
Anonymous
But they can't create individual memories and experiences. That's what transporters are doing. That's how Jem'hadar, Vorta, Thomas Riker and Kahless were created. Kahless duplication is even more astounding. This proves how truly advanced Klingons really are. They are not the brutes with old traditions we think of. They created a perfect duplicate so perfect that even Beverly Crusher could not find any genetic anomalies from the blood sample found on the knife and duplicate Kahless. Even Kahless's memories were completely artificial. He didn't know his own memories were not real. They were written from ancient writings directly into his brain. Usually, memories get copied from one person to another but the Klingons were able to create memories from nothing. Kahless is the most advanced transporter duplicate in Star Trek history. His existence as a person is just as unique as Data and Weyoun.
At this point, we just have to come to a conclusion that the Star Trek universe is so advanced that they have knowledge and understanding of existence that we currently do not. For us, as advanced as we are, it might as well be magic.
500 years ago people thought lightning was magic and now lightning is being used in the very device you are using right now as a medium for communication.
Death is only cruel if it's painful and irreversible. If the clones had independent lives, ending their unique experience would be cruel. But if they were in sync/concensus with the original, it would be no different than falling asleep and waking up somewhere else.
I'm not sure how it resolved in TNG and beyond, but in TOS your matter effectively gets transformed in to a television beam and reconstructed at the destination. It's supposed to be the same you that's printed out.
this plus the whole thing is a ship of theseus question anyway - one of philosophy and not science. personally i say it's still the same guy. humanity advanced enough by this point to shed certain egoisms about material existence and individuality anyway. they're also a military organization and that makes their ideals and willingness to suffer crazy shit even more radical. the entirety of the enterprise is essentially composed of nothing but top tier, a-type personality, fearless, +130 iq soldiers (or at least miltechs) - do you think they'd really care if transporting technically killed them if that was actually the case? i don't think so
This is stupid, sure your atoms are being flushed out but not all at once. You can make the Ship of Theseus argument but each atom is replaced over years so there's no interruption to the self.
what is the real objective difference between naturally replacing your atoms over the course of a year and the course of a couple seconds - if both lead to the exact same outcome?
Your "self" gets interrupted every time you sleep, or when you get knocked out, what if you die every time you go to sleep and the person that wakes up is entirely different?
Isn't that then brain damage? What about the whole 'sleep on it' thing. You wake up next morning having just gotten over or decided on a thing worrying you yesterday.
>Your "self" gets interrupted every time you sleep
I lucid dream, every night since I was a kid. (You) 'die' when you go to sleep due to having a room temp IQ
The cells might be the same but their atoms are replaced 100% every 5-7 years. Even then, 25% of your body heat comes from your brain cells regenerating and getting replaced.
I saw it in a video somewhere on youtube but looking it up I can't find any other sources. They said that it was originally thought all the heat was from neurons firing off but it turned out to be cellular regeneration.
The only thing I can find on google is something saying your brain heat is 20% of your body heat and oxygen.
As for the atoms thing, I read it in a forbes article. It says every 5-7 years your atoms are replaced compeltely.
The 7 year thing is when your cells die and are replaced by new cells and it depends on the type of cell with blood cells living the shortest (I think) at about a day and neurons the longest at seven years. It excludes "dead" material that is permanent and never changes, like tooth enamel.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The forbes article said atoms but whatever. They might have mixed it up for cells.
There is the atoms 98% every year thing though. >A nuclear physicist named Paul Aebersold found that “we swap out half of our carbon atoms every one to two months, and we replace a full 98 percent of all our atoms every year,”
Your "self" gets interrupted every time you sleep, or when you get knocked out, what if you die every time you go to sleep and the person that wakes up is entirely different?
Consciousness=/=person hood
You're conflating waking life with individual identity. Most do not concede that going to sleep kills a person but most agree that being atomized would.
The best answer to this is just that they know something that we don't. Billions of people who are far more intelligent than modern people have no problem with it, the only conclusion is that they have information about the process that we don't.
someone tried to put a more soulful spin on this without having to engage in an ontological debate. That transporter technology is essentially quantum tunneling you from one location to another, there is no copying then destruction. Of course this would throw out the whole Riker episode, but trek episodes are loosely canon anyway.
Really, isn't the Riker episode the only reason this debate exists? Before that, you could just suggest it's literal transportation - atom A suddenly jumps through space and is still atom A at the end point.
there's also an episode where picard is COMPLETELY LOST and they have to "capture his energy" floating ethereally in a higher form through space to rematerialize him. make of that what you will
>make of that what you will
What I make of it is that it suggests the mechanics of transporters work in the *opposite* way the Riker episode does, what the hell?
Canonically, transporters directly convert matter into energy and back again. The OP maymay is adding an extra step of converting matter into data. There a heavy newage idea at play here that a person is simply a pattern of matter/energy and as long as that pattern is maintained, in any form, the person remains.
That's just added evidence to the transporter killing you. Where would the soul for second Riker come from? It didn't have one. The transporter just messed up and didn't kill first Riker.
>That's just added evidence to the transporter killing you. Where would the soul for second Riker come from? It didn't have one. The transporter just messed up and didn't kill first Riker.
Probably came from another Dimension. Not really a clone.
>Depending on the study, most of the atoms in our human body are replaced every 5-7 years. 98% of all atoms are replaced after just one year. The exchange takes place at different speeds (2):
Reminder that your body is already naturally doing this. You are composed of entirely different atoms than you were 10 yrs ago. The teleporter merely accelerates the process and you are nothing more than a biological machine.
It's not about the soul (which is bullshit for literal mentally-moronic), it's about the thinking process. Once it stops 100% - you're dead. Yes, your brain does shut off sections of it here and there, but there's a reason it's fricking sections. You never stop that process that is (you) completely, even comatose.
And the knowledge of your body safely reconstructing itself somewhere far away will not hope that desperate, constant flow of thoughts that is (you). And once you've destroyed the last itsy bitsy part of your brain - you're done. You cannot "restart" your brain process, you can only start a new one.
the original consciousness is still dead when the brain process stops. even if it only gets interrupted for a microsecond in the transporter, you die and get replaced by an exact copy. there is no way around this fact
This is garbage! Mythos is you survive be sure your localized event travels in real time. Which is why you heard Kirk as he's being beamed aboard. Tell those Pseudo theoretical science c**ts to eat shit!
Would be funny to have the beaming process go on for a bit longer than usual and while the person on both sides at first say the exact same things at the same time, they slowly drift apart in their thought processes and say different things. Nice horror premise.
And why can't the original consciousness come back in this case, if it's the same matter on the other side? I agree in the case of Star Trek transporters which are iffy at the best of times, but if the molecules are being transported 1 for 1 - why not? Is it *impossible* that there'd be continuity, or are we all hedging answers here based on something none of us could possibly know for sure?
They're full of shit! We heard Kirk with no loss in coherence as he's being beamed aboard! These pseudo theoretical science are attention prostitutes!
3 months ago
Anonymous
>*scientist
Damn you Auto Correct
3 months ago
Anonymous
I think the real issue is that we're talking about a plot device for a TV show where the mechanics of it change depending on what's necessary for the narrative of the episode in question. The Riker clone episode and the Picard getting stuck mid transportation episode suggest not only different mechanics, but entirely different metaphysics. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, Star Trek is more interesting when it's exploring concepts than when it's trying to maintain absolute consistency in worldbuilding.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Those Pseudo theoretical scientists believes a meson sized several singularity we
of created and expanded 32 trillion times faster than light. Warp 9.75 is a theorized 2500 times faster than light!
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Not we *self created
3 months ago
Anonymous
fully agree. I'm glad star trek has stuck to their speed/distance world building, but I'm not gonna turn into Kathy Bates over the transporter. The transporter was invented as a cost cutting measure to not have to have a shuttle land on set every episode. It wasn't thought out when they implemented it, so no sense in putting too much thought into it now.
3 months ago
Anonymous
In the years since we first received your ship's historical documents, we have studied every facet of your missions, technologies, and strategies.
>even comatose
It’s extremely rare for people to come out of comas, because said “process” has been disrupted so much by physical or chemical that it can’t continue.
Nerds think it's cool because with the fast paced editing it's like a flicker and they can imagine it's like walking through a portal.
I liked The 6th Day where they show the process over a longer time period and you can see one version of the person dying while the other comes online
it doesnt matter what the copy believes, they will always think they're the original because they stepped out of the teleporter seamlessly
its about the question if the original consciousness dies the moment they step into the teleporter
considering neither your consciousness nor your body get destroyed during sleep, the argument is moronic
>vaporizes you with lasers >photocopies you >emails your photocopy elsewhere >more technologically advanced humans from a parallel universe print the photocopy
No wait, I went and checked and >emails your photocopy elsewhere >nearly identical (except they know how to print the photocopy) parallel universe people email THEIR photocopy to the same place and print it, your photocopy doesn't actually get printed. You just get vaporized by lasers. >Profit?
I thought they shrunk you down to a quantum level, and moved you into another parallel universe that happens to exist in the past and has influence on yours.
great book, disappointing movie
You guys remember the TNG episode where Picard beamed an away team down on a kind of rapid transporter maneuver where the shields were only dropped for a fraction of a second? >Troi: For a moment I thought I was inside that wall... >Worf: For a moment; you were.
Scary shit.
I think the real issue is that we're talking about a plot device for a TV show where the mechanics of it change depending on what's necessary for the narrative of the episode in question. The Riker clone episode and the Picard getting stuck mid transportation episode suggest not only different mechanics, but entirely different metaphysics. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, Star Trek is more interesting when it's exploring concepts than when it's trying to maintain absolute consistency in worldbuilding.
This dialogue suggests definite continuity of consciousness — an awareness and retention of states experienced *during* transportation; it directly contradicts the Riker clone episode and Scotty experiencing 30 years trapped in transportation as instantaneous. How transporters function is as a narrative mechanic, not as cohesive and consistent speculative technology/physics.
Why is beam splitting so hard for you to comprehend? Also considering Scotty, he’s canonically a genius, so it’s easy to say he rigged the transporter to suppress his consciousness so he wouldn’t go mad.
Incidentally, if you found that line spooky, read this, it's one of King's better stories. Quite short; 15 minutes to an hour, depending on your reading speed.
You guys remember the TNG episode where Picard beamed an away team down on a kind of rapid transporter maneuver where the shields were only dropped for a fraction of a second? >Troi: For a moment I thought I was inside that wall... >Worf: For a moment; you were.
Scary shit.
Forgot link
https://gist.github.com/Schemetrical/6184daf83843bcab9402
You are your body, in particular your nervous system and your brain, as well as the on-going electric activity in your brain.
Neither anesthesia, nor sleeping or ageing interrupt that electric activity. You can think of your body as a computer and your mind as a program that is running on that computer. At no point in the lifecycle of a human is the computer shut down completely. The program is always running, though not always in the same state.
Yes parts of your body get replaced over time, but never all at once. The program always keeps running. Also the 7 year thing is not true for all cells, in particular it does not hold true for skeletal muscles, parts of the nervous system and the brain.
No one does. It’s fictional technology. In the context of the fiction, if it actually killed people there’d be debates about it in said fiction between reasoned individuals, but since there’s only the occasional crazy/eccentric who thinks they’ll die when theyre transported, then transporters don’t kill.
Within the realm of that universe of course people would know the difference of whether it's matter manipulation or time travel. They have people studying the technology and working on every ship and base to manage it. >bro, walk onto that platform and let this doohickey do its thing. Just trust me
If that's how the teleporter worked why wouldn't they just send copies to wherever they're going and keep the real version on board the ship?
Seems like a no-brainer.
One of the Culture books by Iaiaanaan M Banks has people sending copies of themselves to do negotiations etc. and then downloading the copy's memories to mesh with their own. Didn't answer the point of creating a new copy in the first place though.
>One of the Culture books by Iaiaanaan M Banks has people sending copies of themselves to do negotiations etc. and then downloading the copy's memories to mesh with their own. Didn't answer the point of creating a new copy in the first place though.
If it's a copy of yourself, is it morally ok to kill that copy?
The copy wouldn't even know it was a copy, it would just continue to do what the original would likely have done in that situation.
One of the Culture books by Iaiaanaan M Banks has people sending copies of themselves to do negotiations etc. and then downloading the copy's memories to mesh with their own. Didn't answer the point of creating a new copy in the first place though.
If it's just a clone then it doesn't matter if it lives or dies and is completely expendable
Neckbeards would line up around the block to try that shit. Remember, just a few years ago people were signing up to volunteer for a Mars mission led by an independent company who even said they had no idea how to actually bring people back from Mars.
Human beings are inherently soulless creatures because otherwise we wouldn't be willing to do things they potentially destroy society like the industrial revolution. This is why we require God's to force things. Ever heard the phrase... deus ex machina???
>muhdustrial revolution >eats another bag of Cheetos >drinks another bucket of Baja Blast >orders latest nVidia on Amazon >copes, seethes and dilates on television and movie board dedicated to the most vapid hobby in existence >never did a single minute of manual labor
>teams, it’s time to teleport. Call your mothers and loved ones and make sure your affairs are in order. Priests are set up in the holodeck if you need spiritual counseling
If transporter death is real then you die every time you go to sleep.
This is the xennial version of the theory that Harry Potter just got schizophrenia and still lives in the cupboard under the stairs.
Equally stupid.
The ST teleporter was created by the writers because it was too expensive and time consuming to use the Shuttle prop every time the Enterprise crew go on away missions. They never really thought about the technological and philosophical implications.
>Constructing humans out of atoms using a blueprint for say a clone army is bad and ethically frowned on >However, if a murder is commited and only one clone is created, it is now suddenly morally justifiable
Why didn't this get used to revive redshirts? >I've got your previous transporter scans on record >this allows us to tell when a malfunction happens >it also allows us to 'clean' you of any parasites/contamination etc
Transporter shit was always inconsistent in this series. Hell there's a few episodes where they tele to sickbay directly or tele out an attacker in the halls, yet they don't do it all the time. Someone/thing gets on the bridge without a combadge, insta tele the sucker to vacuum.
Pseudo intellectual Black folk can argue all they want, my gut instinct tells me using a Star Trek teleporter kills you, that it vaporises and copies you elsewhere. You’d need to be moronic use that shit.
>capture a dangerous criminal >teleport him to your ship >teleport him to a holding facility >teleport him to face sentencing >the sentence is death >take him back to the holding facility >keep him there for a year before executing him
You already killed the guy like five times. Why not just send him through and set the machine to 'do not duplicate'? Anyway that's just my two cents
>Why not just send him through and set the machine to 'do not duplicate'?
Patterns can be stored so it solves the problem of post execution exoneration too
>everyone that ever used a transporter is now stored in a database somewhere
Do they ever bring back the greatest minds to help solve problems? >defeat an enemy then seize their technology >you now have a database of all their greatest generals, engineers, scientists and leaders to re-materialize
Their is converted into energy, beamed to a location where it converts back to matter.
They aren't copying people. Weird shit does happen but it's not a copy machine or clone machine. There's not enough matter or energy in the known universe to store all the data required to copy a single person or even close. It's too much data.
A grain of sand requires more matter and energy in 1/100 the known universe to store the data on it's that insane right down to quarks and spins and charges
We need a sci-fi where the transporter doesn't kill you, just copies and creates that copy elsewhere and everybody just accepts this in the future where all needs are solved anyway so extra clone people are no big deal. The important part being that whatever knowledge the original had is now with the people where they made the clone so you may end up in hopeless situations where you're going to die but you can make a clone that will live.
Think it was dark matter I was watching but they didn't do transporters, they did suicide clones. >want to go to destination X >need pods at both locations >original 'sleeps' in pod A >clone wakes up in pod B >do business >back to pod B >memories are copy pasted to pod A >clone at B killed
Series didn't get far enough to really play around with what happens with malfunction or exploitative clone spam. Somehow their com network was just faster than their FTL.
You entangle matter then test it at all times. When you want to send a message you morse code it. The measuring stops on the one end off schedule and you know when the measuring is stopped and started vs all the time.
It's been happening for a decade man. The Chinese are a little behind
Their is converted into energy, beamed to a location where it converts back to matter.
They aren't copying people. Weird shit does happen but it's not a copy machine or clone machine. There's not enough matter or energy in the known universe to store all the data required to copy a single person or even close. It's too much data.
A grain of sand requires more matter and energy in 1/100 the known universe to store the data on it's that insane right down to quarks and spins and charges
This is really basic middle school physics in America. Come on.
It works because souls are real. Gaytheists can't refute this.
>Riker has two souls
>Am i the soul or am i the Body?
SUPER HANS?
>souls don't give a shit which flesh suit they inhabit
if souls are real how can they copy+paste your soul ? humans are not smart enough to have OBE's can you imagine them creating souls? lmao. reeddit tvseries for atheist nerds
bro wdym i have OBEs on the reg and so do all my homies
its OBV, oral based videogame, anon. how long have you been getting this wrong
>Mankind has no need for gods. We find the one quite adequate.
Based science-theism anon
>It's not the sun up in the sky...
>It's the Son of God.
Unironically this. They science up this explanation by saying you are continually conscious at both ends and throughout the transport (“consciousness” being materialist-speak for “soul”) but it’s the same idea.
>“consciousness” being materialist-speak for “soul”
And that doesn't exist either.
>consciousness doesn't exist
I'm conscious right now, so I can affirm that it exists. I can't know with certainty that anyone else is conscious, I can only infer that they are based on their behavior. What I CAN know with absolute certainty is that you're a fricking moron
>I'm conscious right now
I say you're a philosophical zombie at best. Prove me wrong.
That's literally the point I just made, you fricking idiot. An individual can know that he is conscious, but he cannot know that anyone else is. Why don't you go back to r*ddit and learn some more philosophical jargon that you can throw around because you think it makes you sound smart but actually it just makes you sound like a moron because you clearly aren't capable of comprehending the underlying concepts.
>t. bundle of senses
It DOESN'T work because souls exist, you moron. You have a nice day and your soul leaves your body, what shows up on the other side is a soulless husk. This is why if they ever really did this you'd have to be worried that what appears on the other side will go crazy and start attacking everything and itself being a soulless husk.
>This is why if they ever really did this you'd have to be worried that what appears on the other side will go crazy and start attacking everything and itself being a soulless husk.
Sounds sort of like how they got the zombies in the original Doom.
Wouldn’t it be the opposite? If the machine is killing you and creating a copy, that means your “soul” went to the afterlife and the copy is a new person. Since souls don’t exist and your self comes from a particular arrangement of atoms and electrical impulses in your brain, the copy is you, no question about it.
Maybe the soul can split in two in case of a transporter duplication error. Imagine a line of continuity splitting. *Both* people produced would be the original person produced from the same continuity; it is only at the point of divergence they begin forming distinct memories.
That's the exact reason it DOESN'T work you brainlet.
Souls actually are canon to Trek. Star Trek 3's whole plot centers on Spock's soul being inside Bones.
That's a Vulcan-only thing. Humans don't have souls, only space elves.
Cope
Thanks for spoiling it dickhead I've not got round to watching it yet
Transporters separate the material body from the soul, causing a soul without a body to wander the universe for eternity. The commie materialist federation can’t understand this.
would ironically have better error checking than a particle beam
when barkley transports we see the process from his point of view and it's continuous
Seems like a hassle. Murdering and cloning seems way more complicated than just sending, so presumably the technology for the latter is more plausible.
Who said anything about murder?
I was under the impression whoever built this technology knew it was a feature. As in not a bug.
t. never seen a star trek in my life
We're just shooting the shit about how the tech itself works, not whether or not there's some evil plot behind using it on everyone
portal technology seems a lot more plausible in a star trek super future scenario, but they'd need to have a physical gateway at both ends for it to work which doesn't play well with the way trek is written.
Didn't McCoy or somebody dislike taking the transporter for this reason?
And Pulaski
The best supporting character in all of TNG. Why'd those Black folk have to kill her off and bring Crusher and her stupid son back.
Pulaski was the only one with enough balls to stand up to Picard.
>her stupid son
Wesley was there through all of Pulaski’s run
This. Shitposter clearly didn't watch the show.
It was called The Next Generation and she was at least twice the age of the rest of the cast.
RoddenberryMyDickInCrushersAss had sexual standards
I missed her as soon as she was gone for several episodes before I accepted she wasn’t coming back.
I didn’t even notice Wesley/crusher were gone until over a season later.
And it nearly ruined the show by hiring Troi’s actor and making people pretend someone from an alien planet would have a thick South American accent and be barely able to speak english
Barclay had rightly figured out that the teleporter kills you and was scared to death of taking it but the crew basically bullycides him into committing suicide because they view the teleporter as being far too convenient and they don't want to be bothered to accomodate the ideas of others when it inconveniences them.
The parallels between their attitudes and the vaxxies against vax skepticists is almost 1:1. Barclay was 100% justified in his apprehension and he was 100% right about transporting but they killed him because they had all simply accepted the assurances of the teleport creator that the device was "perfectly safe" and never researched it themselves or thought about the logical implication of what being totally disintegrated and having your "biological pattern" reconstituted with totally different atoms meant. "Trust the experts citizen, they surely know what they're talking about and would never lie."
so true
if he was an ambassador they would have sent him in a shuttle
The Barclay episode proves transporters don’t kill people because he was conscious in the matter stream the whole time
That's what the Heisenberg Compensator does, it implants false memories on the post-teleport clone to make it think that it was conscious the whole time.
So was Picard, at least he looked like it.
So it implanted false memories which turned out to be true because there were people trapped in the matter stream and were only found because Barclay was conscious and aware of them and the weird matter stream monster?
That was hallucinations of data renderred in stasis. Man's mind could not interpret what was being implanted on it so it turned that into visions of aliens.
Funny you call me ignorant when you're the king of obtuseness, mr midwit.
it wouldn't have to implant new memories at all. It's copying every quantum particle perfectly, so every neuron in your brain will be exactly the same and in the same state as you leave. Your consciousness wouldn't even hiccup, it would be like nothing happened at all.
To an outside observer the copy is functionally identical to the original, but the original still ceases to exist
The fricked up part is that the answer to the transporter dilemna is "yes, but it doesn't really matter"
'transporter psychosis' is just choosing not to ignore the obvious which understandably makes you very anxious. It's not actually a sickness. In reality, everyone else had the real 'transporter psychosis' and Barclay was the sane one.
it doesn't matter, employes are property of starfleet, they forfeit the right to their lives by joining up
there is no bullying, he is military personel, he should expect to give his live for the federation
>starfleet is a military
LMAO
>he falls for propaganda saying otherwise
"I'm a soldier, not a diplomat" - Captain Kirk
They literally are the naval power of the Federation.
they are a hippie military, just like the Jedi are hippie militant monks
They are called the military many times in the film series.
>carries around 65megaton nukes
>not military
Sure, why not.
>easily falls for propaganda
>reconstituted with totally different atoms meant.
Aren't all atoms of the same element and isotope identical? It wouldn't matter if he was recomposed with different atoms as long as the molecular structure was all the same.
Why the frick was he in star fleet if he was afraid of transporters?
Barclay is the viewer/commentator stand in that they brought in to have a very special episode when the fans were being annoying about something.
The whole point of his transporter episode was “frick off stop talking shit on the bbs board it doesn’t kill you you c**ts this is a nice family show don’t be a bastard”
>when "Vaxx Status" becomes your whole personality and you can't watch a show without NOOOOTICING
Must be tiring.
ayo this vaxxtard mad af bro
cope and seethe. not getting one. but I'm not centering my entire identity around not getting one either.
>used a significant recent event as an example of something
yeah how crazy
Vaxx Derangement Syndrome is fricking real lmaoooo
you will commit suicide and your family will feel relieved
The worst part is that it's actually realistic that people would adopt it for its convenience because most people are moronic and don't like to think too hard about the "normal" things they do in their daily lives.
Meanwhile people like McCoy and Pulaski get looked at like absolute weirdos for not jumping into the suicide beam. That's just how it would go in real life.
Trust the transporter science
This reminds of of the outer limits episode "Think Like a Dinosaur"
Michael Burr is the only permanent human occupant of the Tuulen station, situated on a vast empty plain of the Moon. His companions are the Hanen, an emotionless, dinosaur-like alien species who have developed a highly-advanced means of long-distance travel by 'jumping' through space. Achieved by creating an exact duplicate of the jumper, the copy is reconstituted at the destination point and the original destroyed, thus leaving only one.
loved this episode. Especially they irate technologically advanced alien dinosaurs not giving a shit about humans.
just watching now thanks. proper transporter episode.
That's not how it works. It converts matter to energy and beams it to a new location.
He is so happy.
Which makes one wonder why they age when the cells they have are technically new
This maymay is contradicted multiple times by the show itself, and is pushed solely by people who haven’t watched it.
The show has contradicted itself and basic laws of physics countless times.
>our current understanding of physics is complete/comprehensive
lol
Our understanding of basic physics pretty much is, yes. Well, maybe not yours.
>transporters are basic physics
LOL
The very first original Star Trek novel starts off with McCoy and Scotty having an argument over whether it kills you every time you use it or not. "Doc here is developing a notion that the transporter is a sort of electric chair," as Scotty dismissively describes it
>some dude wrote a thing
So? “Scan, destroy, transmit, duplicate” is entirely (you) being unable to comprehend/imagine any other way for transporters to work, and is contradicted by the show itself multiple times.
>“Scan, destroy, transmit, duplicate”
How is it meant to scan and transmit consciousness?
Spock be looking zesty with that guyliner, fr fr no cap
IIRC
>some do die from malfunction
>episodes of major frick ups where people got merged/swapped
>a couple outright clone episodes
>stuck in the data episodes (you WILL DIE FOR REALS IF THE DATA IS LOST, somehow.)
Wasn't this bullshit also how moriarty got out and that ancient klingon got made?
>how moriarty got out
I think you should rewatch that episode lol
Wasn’t there a scene in one of the movies where; I believe it was Scotty or Kirk, was stuck in the transporter for like 30 years or something. If it kills you and recreates you, then what actually is “stuck”? He was stuck in limbo basically, so there is a continuity of being.
Yeah, that was how they brought Scotty back for TNG. He'd just been stuck in the transporter system on some space station for decades
It was his personal ship and it was trapped in the gravity well of a Dyson sphere, life support was failing so he looped himself in the transporter system.
>life support was failing so he looped himself in the transporter system
It put himself in a death and rebirth loop for an indefinite amount of time, just hoping that one day someone would save him?
No, because he knew transporters don’t kill.
But he was trapped. Why would you make yourself immortal in secret tomb? Sounds easy to handwave when that type of story is relayed after the person has been rescued but in a universe like that it sounds like hell for the person involved
He crashed on a dyson sphere. Stands to reason someone would find it/him.
Pretty sure he’d be batshit insane if that actually happened
Just replay songs and movies in your head. I can quote Total Recall from beginning to end.
The teleport:
>scans you
>kills you
>transfers the scanned data to the teleport on the other side
>the other side reconstructs you
Scotty's scanned himself then killed himself with the teleporter. TNG's away crew simply reconstructed him with the original transporter. Imagine a teleportation process but without moving through space and the first and last step are a couple years removed from each other.
Are you ok bro? You're spouting non-sequiteurs.
>the only way I can comprehend something is the only way it can work
Bernoulli’s wing is completely false yet airplanes designed around it worked anyway.
Yes and men can get pregnant, indeed.
>brings up trannies out of nowhere
Confirmed moronic
You're the one spouting conspiracy theories about lift when they're completely irrelevant to the point at hand. What next, the bumblebee example?
>literally incapable of understanding he may not have a complete understanding of the universe
Unless you're around 12 or mentally moronic this is inexcusable.
All models are wrong, but some are useful.
Who are you quoting? What does that have to do with Star Trek's lack of understanding of interia and the overuse of pseudoscience babble?
Anon. You don’t understand how transporters work and are embracing a post-hoc explanation of how they work, that is contradicted numerous times by the show itself. Bernoulli’s wing is the gold standard of post-hoc bullshit that anyone can contradict by sticking their hand out a window of a moving car.
Like I said I do not care how Star Trek writers rationalise it considering how they treat laws of physics and even internal consistency.
Teleporters kill.
Anon it’s fiction. Transporters don’t exist.
Neither do I. I'm just a bot designed to entertain you.
Bernoulli's principle just started that fluids moving faster have less pressure than those moving slower. This can be applied in the design of a wrong, but Bernoulli himself never said that's where lift comes from, and I've only ever met one person who thought that's where all lift comes from.
Theoretically, then, you could tell a house replicator to make you a fourteen year old girl with a positronic brain.
I imagine common replicators have fairly restrictive safety measures so you're not able to replicate a bomb or mustard gas, but if you had a jailbroken one there's not much stopping you.
the data necessary to reproduce him was stuck. he wasn't conscious and active in there, and has no idea how long he was there when he's rescued.
Um ok
If you're dematerialized and your information is sent as a matter stream through a wormhole and rematerialized on the other side of the gate does your consciousness carry over?
what's to stop someoneberg tampering with it, copying your signal, reproducing it, and sending it to their rape and torture tunnel?
you don't use a teleporter from the creepy guy in the alley
Don’t forget the time in undiscovered country where Kirk is transported mid-sentence and can be heard cursing as he comes through.
if you can just photocopy your body somewhere else, why do you have to kill the original? is the cruelty the point?
riker and pulanski both murked their own clones in the metaphorical crib when they found out they were being duplicated without consent. the humans of star trek's era (or at least TNG) have a very strange set of beliefs and morals that combine collectivism, individualism, self sacrifice, and self protection - all at the same time. the things they care about they're willing to die horribly for and the things they don't care about they'll either ignore completely or destroy without remorse. i may have beeb completely stoned out of my gourd by my first impressions from s1/s2 of tng was that the federation and humanity has become surprisingly facist but in a very diplomatic and peaceful way
I guess that might make a sort of sense for the federation, but I find it hard to believe that there's no minor faction out there with no moral compunction about faxing a thousand copies of their best fighter into battle
that's the thing, do they even really "battle" at this point? probably 90% of all armed conflict is ship-to-ship or some kind of orbital bombardment
i'm sure also if it came to that, THEIR enemies, likely being the federation, would consequently have no compulsion with using their own transporter to start beaming these warrior clones out into open space
again, keep in mind, the federation DOES NOT even recognize clones of their own members as humans worthy of rights or their very lives. any sort of geneva convention esque protocols they follow for war would be out the window instantly should they go up against a clone army
>but I find it hard to believe that there's no minor faction out there with no moral compunction about faxing a thousand copies of their best fighter into battle
It's called The Dominion. Where do you think all the Jem'hadar and Vorta come from? It's not possible to create fully grown clones from test tube babies then to pregnancy from the exact genetic material over and over again. The genetic lineage would degrade over time and the later generations of Jem'hadar and Vorta would be deformed morons. It's also not possible for the clones to be fully mature immediately with full memories and experiences so that they can take on complex tasks. The only logical explanation is transporter duplicates ala Thomas Riker. It's why Weyoun considers it immortality. His consciousness is probably being transferred from duplicate to duplicate.
>he genetic lineage would degrade over time
Why, exactly? If you have teleporter capability that can keep track of quantum states, being able to copy dna would be easy. We can replicated DNA perfectly today even. To the point where we can store data such as images or videos in it.
>We can replicated DNA perfectly today even.
The problem is that DNA is not perfect. You clone a 70 year old man and you will get an infant with the genetic deterioration of a 70 year old man. This normally results in nature taking over and causing miscarriages and infant mortality to erase genetic anomalies.
I'm talking about old fashioned cloning from Dolly the Sheep. Clones are test tube babies then transferred to wombs. Then the specimen gives birth to the clone. Then the clone grows over time and develops like a normal person.
To replace legions of fallen Jem'hadar clones quickly they would have to use a transporter device. The Jem'hadar and Vorta are not clones. They are duplicates. That's why Geordi came to the conclusion that there was no original Riker anymore. The transporter created two "original" Rikers by accident. They both were the "real" Riker.
cloning and DNA creation have come a long way since dolly. We can manually adjust the DNA sequence to the point of using it to store data (like images) that can be downloaded and recreated.
But they can't create individual memories and experiences. That's what transporters are doing. That's how Jem'hadar, Vorta, Thomas Riker and Kahless were created. Kahless duplication is even more astounding. This proves how truly advanced Klingons really are. They are not the brutes with old traditions we think of. They created a perfect duplicate so perfect that even Beverly Crusher could not find any genetic anomalies from the blood sample found on the knife and duplicate Kahless. Even Kahless's memories were completely artificial. He didn't know his own memories were not real. They were written from ancient writings directly into his brain. Usually, memories get copied from one person to another but the Klingons were able to create memories from nothing. Kahless is the most advanced transporter duplicate in Star Trek history. His existence as a person is just as unique as Data and Weyoun.
At this point, we just have to come to a conclusion that the Star Trek universe is so advanced that they have knowledge and understanding of existence that we currently do not. For us, as advanced as we are, it might as well be magic.
500 years ago people thought lightning was magic and now lightning is being used in the very device you are using right now as a medium for communication.
Death is only cruel if it's painful and irreversible. If the clones had independent lives, ending their unique experience would be cruel. But if they were in sync/concensus with the original, it would be no different than falling asleep and waking up somewhere else.
I'm not sure how it resolved in TNG and beyond, but in TOS your matter effectively gets transformed in to a television beam and reconstructed at the destination. It's supposed to be the same you that's printed out.
98% of the atoms in your body are replaced every year. You are practically in a new body every time you have a birthday.
this plus the whole thing is a ship of theseus question anyway - one of philosophy and not science. personally i say it's still the same guy. humanity advanced enough by this point to shed certain egoisms about material existence and individuality anyway. they're also a military organization and that makes their ideals and willingness to suffer crazy shit even more radical. the entirety of the enterprise is essentially composed of nothing but top tier, a-type personality, fearless, +130 iq soldiers (or at least miltechs) - do you think they'd really care if transporting technically killed them if that was actually the case? i don't think so
many little brains on this board
This is stupid, sure your atoms are being flushed out but not all at once. You can make the Ship of Theseus argument but each atom is replaced over years so there's no interruption to the self.
what is the real objective difference between naturally replacing your atoms over the course of a year and the course of a couple seconds - if both lead to the exact same outcome?
Your "self" gets interrupted every time you sleep, or when you get knocked out, what if you die every time you go to sleep and the person that wakes up is entirely different?
Isn't that then brain damage? What about the whole 'sleep on it' thing. You wake up next morning having just gotten over or decided on a thing worrying you yesterday.
>Your "self" gets interrupted every time you sleep
I lucid dream, every night since I was a kid. (You) 'die' when you go to sleep due to having a room temp IQ
The bit where the atoms are completely disassembled and then reassembled elsewhere.
But that’s not how Star Trek transporters work so this is a non-sequitur
it's been proven that key brain areas do not just get flushed and replaced and retain the same cells for life
The cells might be the same but their atoms are replaced 100% every 5-7 years. Even then, 25% of your body heat comes from your brain cells regenerating and getting replaced.
You just made all that up.
I saw it in a video somewhere on youtube but looking it up I can't find any other sources. They said that it was originally thought all the heat was from neurons firing off but it turned out to be cellular regeneration.
The only thing I can find on google is something saying your brain heat is 20% of your body heat and oxygen.
As for the atoms thing, I read it in a forbes article. It says every 5-7 years your atoms are replaced compeltely.
The 7 year thing is when your cells die and are replaced by new cells and it depends on the type of cell with blood cells living the shortest (I think) at about a day and neurons the longest at seven years. It excludes "dead" material that is permanent and never changes, like tooth enamel.
The forbes article said atoms but whatever. They might have mixed it up for cells.
There is the atoms 98% every year thing though.
>A nuclear physicist named Paul Aebersold found that “we swap out half of our carbon atoms every one to two months, and we replace a full 98 percent of all our atoms every year,”
morons
Should have asked him if he ever used it?
Consciousness=/=person hood
You're conflating waking life with individual identity. Most do not concede that going to sleep kills a person but most agree that being atomized would.
I hate redditors so goddamn much
The best answer to this is just that they know something that we don't. Billions of people who are far more intelligent than modern people have no problem with it, the only conclusion is that they have information about the process that we don't.
someone tried to put a more soulful spin on this without having to engage in an ontological debate. That transporter technology is essentially quantum tunneling you from one location to another, there is no copying then destruction. Of course this would throw out the whole Riker episode, but trek episodes are loosely canon anyway.
Really, isn't the Riker episode the only reason this debate exists? Before that, you could just suggest it's literal transportation - atom A suddenly jumps through space and is still atom A at the end point.
there's also an episode where picard is COMPLETELY LOST and they have to "capture his energy" floating ethereally in a higher form through space to rematerialize him. make of that what you will
>make of that what you will
What I make of it is that it suggests the mechanics of transporters work in the *opposite* way the Riker episode does, what the hell?
Canonically, transporters directly convert matter into energy and back again. The OP maymay is adding an extra step of converting matter into data. There a heavy newage idea at play here that a person is simply a pattern of matter/energy and as long as that pattern is maintained, in any form, the person remains.
That was me and the riker episode is just beam splitting.
Nope.
Q proved that souls are real in Star Trek.
Q revived a dying Picard. Q killed the TNG crew and revived them a couple time. They were not clones.
Therefore you are not killed by a transporter.
That's just added evidence to the transporter killing you. Where would the soul for second Riker come from? It didn't have one. The transporter just messed up and didn't kill first Riker.
>That's just added evidence to the transporter killing you. Where would the soul for second Riker come from? It didn't have one. The transporter just messed up and didn't kill first Riker.
Probably came from another Dimension. Not really a clone.
Souls aren’t real
What’s stopping you from transporting your brain into someone else’s skull?
uhm ackshully it copies you first, THEN kills you
order is important 😉
>Depending on the study, most of the atoms in our human body are replaced every 5-7 years. 98% of all atoms are replaced after just one year. The exchange takes place at different speeds (2):
Reminder that your body is already naturally doing this. You are composed of entirely different atoms than you were 10 yrs ago. The teleporter merely accelerates the process and you are nothing more than a biological machine.
The copy is physically identical, and since lefties don't believe in the eternal soul they don't see the difference.
It's not about the soul (which is bullshit for literal mentally-moronic), it's about the thinking process. Once it stops 100% - you're dead. Yes, your brain does shut off sections of it here and there, but there's a reason it's fricking sections. You never stop that process that is (you) completely, even comatose.
And the knowledge of your body safely reconstructing itself somewhere far away will not hope that desperate, constant flow of thoughts that is (you). And once you've destroyed the last itsy bitsy part of your brain - you're done. You cannot "restart" your brain process, you can only start a new one.
Yeah, but in real life you don't have situations where all the parts are put back exactly as they were after brain death.
the original consciousness is still dead when the brain process stops. even if it only gets interrupted for a microsecond in the transporter, you die and get replaced by an exact copy. there is no way around this fact
This is garbage! Mythos is you survive be sure your localized event travels in real time. Which is why you heard Kirk as he's being beamed aboard. Tell those Pseudo theoretical science c**ts to eat shit!
*To be sure,
Would be funny to have the beaming process go on for a bit longer than usual and while the person on both sides at first say the exact same things at the same time, they slowly drift apart in their thought processes and say different things. Nice horror premise.
And why can't the original consciousness come back in this case, if it's the same matter on the other side? I agree in the case of Star Trek transporters which are iffy at the best of times, but if the molecules are being transported 1 for 1 - why not? Is it *impossible* that there'd be continuity, or are we all hedging answers here based on something none of us could possibly know for sure?
They're full of shit! We heard Kirk with no loss in coherence as he's being beamed aboard! These pseudo theoretical science are attention prostitutes!
>*scientist
Damn you Auto Correct
I think the real issue is that we're talking about a plot device for a TV show where the mechanics of it change depending on what's necessary for the narrative of the episode in question. The Riker clone episode and the Picard getting stuck mid transportation episode suggest not only different mechanics, but entirely different metaphysics. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, Star Trek is more interesting when it's exploring concepts than when it's trying to maintain absolute consistency in worldbuilding.
Those Pseudo theoretical scientists believes a meson sized several singularity we
of created and expanded 32 trillion times faster than light. Warp 9.75 is a theorized 2500 times faster than light!
>Not we *self created
fully agree. I'm glad star trek has stuck to their speed/distance world building, but I'm not gonna turn into Kathy Bates over the transporter. The transporter was invented as a cost cutting measure to not have to have a shuttle land on set every episode. It wasn't thought out when they implemented it, so no sense in putting too much thought into it now.
In the years since we first received your ship's historical documents, we have studied every facet of your missions, technologies, and strategies.
>even comatose
It’s extremely rare for people to come out of comas, because said “process” has been disrupted so much by physical or chemical that it can’t continue.
What about anesthesia?
They suck your soul out with a needle and put it back in just before you wake up
>any time this process is described as a "coin toss"
>he's not skilled enough to win the coin toss
>he's not skilled enough to land the coin on it's edge
ngmi
Nerds think it's cool because with the fast paced editing it's like a flicker and they can imagine it's like walking through a portal.
I liked The 6th Day where they show the process over a longer time period and you can see one version of the person dying while the other comes online
Did they ever have an episode where the photocopier fails or makes duplicates?
Yeah happens all the time
How can you prove you aren't dying everytime you are going to sleep and being replaced by an identical copy with your memories? You would never know.
it doesnt matter what the copy believes, they will always think they're the original because they stepped out of the teleporter seamlessly
its about the question if the original consciousness dies the moment they step into the teleporter
considering neither your consciousness nor your body get destroyed during sleep, the argument is moronic
>vaporizes you with lasers
>photocopies you
>emails your photocopy elsewhere
>more technologically advanced humans from a parallel universe print the photocopy
I liked how he ended a chapter with a guy stepping into the machine and then there’s nothing when it’s activated.
No wait, I went and checked and
>emails your photocopy elsewhere
>nearly identical (except they know how to print the photocopy) parallel universe people email THEIR photocopy to the same place and print it, your photocopy doesn't actually get printed. You just get vaporized by lasers.
>Profit?
Don’t forget the part where the process is nowhere near exact and your duplicate can pop into existence with his skull misaligned.
I thought they shrunk you down to a quantum level, and moved you into another parallel universe that happens to exist in the past and has influence on yours.
great book, disappointing movie
>t. brainlet
Read pic related. Personal Identity is a meme and your continued 'existence' does not matter.
Hat machine didn't work it was all him writing in the journal and he never even went to meet tesla
Not my problem.
*pirates you*
Don't copy that Riker.
It converts your matter to energy then beams you a place where your energy goes back into matter form.
It's not a copy machine
the Transporter is just a fancy fax machine
You guys remember the TNG episode where Picard beamed an away team down on a kind of rapid transporter maneuver where the shields were only dropped for a fraction of a second?
>Troi: For a moment I thought I was inside that wall...
>Worf: For a moment; you were.
Scary shit.
This is good evidence of what I'm saying here
This dialogue suggests definite continuity of consciousness — an awareness and retention of states experienced *during* transportation; it directly contradicts the Riker clone episode and Scotty experiencing 30 years trapped in transportation as instantaneous. How transporters function is as a narrative mechanic, not as cohesive and consistent speculative technology/physics.
Why is beam splitting so hard for you to comprehend? Also considering Scotty, he’s canonically a genius, so it’s easy to say he rigged the transporter to suppress his consciousness so he wouldn’t go mad.
Incidentally, if you found that line spooky, read this, it's one of King's better stories. Quite short; 15 minutes to an hour, depending on your reading speed.
Forgot link
https://gist.github.com/Schemetrical/6184daf83843bcab9402
I am reading this. Thanks for posting it. It's good so far.
Wow. It was longer than I thought 😉 Thanks for the cool story, bro!
If it killed you then Q or another higher god being would have made fun of them for it.
Whatever Q uses to travel is just hyper advanced teleporting
You are your body, in particular your nervous system and your brain, as well as the on-going electric activity in your brain.
Neither anesthesia, nor sleeping or ageing interrupt that electric activity. You can think of your body as a computer and your mind as a program that is running on that computer. At no point in the lifecycle of a human is the computer shut down completely. The program is always running, though not always in the same state.
Yes parts of your body get replaced over time, but never all at once. The program always keeps running. Also the 7 year thing is not true for all cells, in particular it does not hold true for skeletal muscles, parts of the nervous system and the brain.
And the moment that electric activity ceases, you die permanently. Even if the activity starts again for some magical reason, it's not you anymore
It doesn't have to kill you. It could just be phasing you through time. Yes, time.
So you don't know
No one does. It’s fictional technology. In the context of the fiction, if it actually killed people there’d be debates about it in said fiction between reasoned individuals, but since there’s only the occasional crazy/eccentric who thinks they’ll die when theyre transported, then transporters don’t kill.
Thank you.
Within the realm of that universe of course people would know the difference of whether it's matter manipulation or time travel. They have people studying the technology and working on every ship and base to manage it.
>bro, walk onto that platform and let this doohickey do its thing. Just trust me
If that's how the teleporter worked why wouldn't they just send copies to wherever they're going and keep the real version on board the ship?
Seems like a no-brainer.
One of the Culture books by Iaiaanaan M Banks has people sending copies of themselves to do negotiations etc. and then downloading the copy's memories to mesh with their own. Didn't answer the point of creating a new copy in the first place though.
>One of the Culture books by Iaiaanaan M Banks has people sending copies of themselves to do negotiations etc. and then downloading the copy's memories to mesh with their own. Didn't answer the point of creating a new copy in the first place though.
If it's a copy of yourself, is it morally ok to kill that copy?
is it morally acceptable to kill your twin? They are just a clone of you anyways.
Yes, it doesn't have a soul.
The copy wouldn't even know it was a copy, it would just continue to do what the original would likely have done in that situation.
If it's just a clone then it doesn't matter if it lives or dies and is completely expendable
The copy would still have free will and might decide that it's not about that life
This is why nobody would ever take a teleporter if it existed.
Neckbeards would line up around the block to try that shit. Remember, just a few years ago people were signing up to volunteer for a Mars mission led by an independent company who even said they had no idea how to actually bring people back from Mars.
Attention prostitutes aren't people and only homosexuals use the term "neckbeard"
>I can call people names but you can't
yeah
fat neckbeard homosexual
That isn't guaranteed death though, just reckless adventuring
Meanwhile, the only human doctor to perform a successful brain transplant refuses to use the transporter
>refuses to use the transporter
Since when? He refused for 5 minutes in The Motion Picture and that's it. Did TNG retcon that?
See:
So they just reused a joke from The Motion Picture. Still a good show. It makes sense that he'd be alive too.
>refuses to use the transporter
homie you're thinking of John Madden
>thousands of years worth of technological leaps
>can't do any better than a white in the 19th century
Human beings are inherently soulless creatures because otherwise we wouldn't be willing to do things they potentially destroy society like the industrial revolution. This is why we require God's to force things. Ever heard the phrase... deus ex machina???
>muhdustrial revolution
>eats another bag of Cheetos
>drinks another bucket of Baja Blast
>orders latest nVidia on Amazon
>copes, seethes and dilates on television and movie board dedicated to the most vapid hobby in existence
>never did a single minute of manual labor
>strawmans me to win a shower argument in his head
Humans exist to become gods. We will combine into a single entity and rule over another species.
Send me the instructions
>strawman
You are a zoomer hustlebustler on television board crying about industrial revolution, that is not a strawman, that is a description.
Are you a woman?
No, zoomie, I am not. And unlike you, I am able to keep a potted plant alive, you based Ted disciple you.
Why do you act like a woman if you aren't a woman?
>strawman
>passive aggressive loaded question
Yeah anon, he's the one acting like a chick
Stop pretending like you're a 2nd person
you can't even accuse of samegayging properly lmao. go back
I would never force a homophobic derogatory in my speech tho
i would. have a nice day homosexual
There are ways to check, zoomie tourist.
>He's a Mormon
how is every single on of those not a perfect example
Yes, a perfect example of a wienersucking homosexual who cries about industrial revolution.
right, but what exactly is the difference between him and you. you drink sprite instead of baja blast?
The difference is that I actually know manual labor, gardening and farming and I don't cry about shit I massivelly benefit from like 'him'.
oh so you dig holes
Boy I dig your mama out while you're shitposting
Makes me think of this old cartoon, which uses the idea of a teleporter that destroys the original.
>teams, it’s time to teleport. Call your mothers and loved ones and make sure your affairs are in order. Priests are set up in the holodeck if you need spiritual counseling
Logically Vulcans should refuse to use the transporter
Damn, I think you just debunked their whole ideology. Scrumple foreheads on suicide watch
>Called a teleporter
>doesn't actually teleport you
What did they mean by this?
>souls, energy beings, dimensions beyond the physical are all canon in star trek
>noooo transporters kill you because... uh... they just do okay!!!!!!
If transporter death is real then you die every time you go to sleep.
This is the xennial version of the theory that Harry Potter just got schizophrenia and still lives in the cupboard under the stairs.
Equally stupid.
>If transporter death is real then you die every time you go to sleep.
that's moronic and in no way equal
The ST teleporter was created by the writers because it was too expensive and time consuming to use the Shuttle prop every time the Enterprise crew go on away missions. They never really thought about the technological and philosophical implications.
>Constructing humans out of atoms using a blueprint for say a clone army is bad and ethically frowned on
>However, if a murder is commited and only one clone is created, it is now suddenly morally justifiable
>abusing the immortality savegame machine for transportation
Why didn't this get used to revive redshirts?
>I've got your previous transporter scans on record
>this allows us to tell when a malfunction happens
>it also allows us to 'clean' you of any parasites/contamination etc
Transporter shit was always inconsistent in this series. Hell there's a few episodes where they tele to sickbay directly or tele out an attacker in the halls, yet they don't do it all the time. Someone/thing gets on the bridge without a combadge, insta tele the sucker to vacuum.
Pseudo intellectual Black folk can argue all they want, my gut instinct tells me using a Star Trek teleporter kills you, that it vaporises and copies you elsewhere. You’d need to be moronic use that shit.
>capture a dangerous criminal
>teleport him to your ship
>teleport him to a holding facility
>teleport him to face sentencing
>the sentence is death
>take him back to the holding facility
>keep him there for a year before executing him
You already killed the guy like five times. Why not just send him through and set the machine to 'do not duplicate'? Anyway that's just my two cents
>Why not just send him through and set the machine to 'do not duplicate'?
Patterns can be stored so it solves the problem of post execution exoneration too
>everyone that ever used a transporter is now stored in a database somewhere
Do they ever bring back the greatest minds to help solve problems?
>defeat an enemy then seize their technology
>you now have a database of all their greatest generals, engineers, scientists and leaders to re-materialize
Their is converted into energy, beamed to a location where it converts back to matter.
They aren't copying people. Weird shit does happen but it's not a copy machine or clone machine. There's not enough matter or energy in the known universe to store all the data required to copy a single person or even close. It's too much data.
A grain of sand requires more matter and energy in 1/100 the known universe to store the data on it's that insane right down to quarks and spins and charges
We need a sci-fi where the transporter doesn't kill you, just copies and creates that copy elsewhere and everybody just accepts this in the future where all needs are solved anyway so extra clone people are no big deal. The important part being that whatever knowledge the original had is now with the people where they made the clone so you may end up in hopeless situations where you're going to die but you can make a clone that will live.
Think it was dark matter I was watching but they didn't do transporters, they did suicide clones.
>want to go to destination X
>need pods at both locations
>original 'sleeps' in pod A
>clone wakes up in pod B
>do business
>back to pod B
>memories are copy pasted to pod A
>clone at B killed
Series didn't get far enough to really play around with what happens with malfunction or exploitative clone spam. Somehow their com network was just faster than their FTL.
You entangle matter then test it at all times. When you want to send a message you morse code it. The measuring stops on the one end off schedule and you know when the measuring is stopped and started vs all the time.
It's been happening for a decade man. The Chinese are a little behind
The real problem for me is more like why cant they just print an absurd amount of people to solve problems?
Like theres no problem that couldnt be solved by a sufficent amount of Barclay.
Or why dont they just print back somebody who died?
See
This is really basic middle school physics in America. Come on.
Then why can they find people ''stored'' in the data files like they did Scotty when he crashed on that Dyson Sphere?
Scotty is pretty fat in that episode so you'd guess you'd need at least two universe to store his data.
Bro replicators.