Yes, they live in Heaven, but only Christ rose from the dead on His own accord. Everyone else can only get into Heaven through Him. And yet you choose to worship and pray to sinners. Curious,
2 years ago
Anonymous
>And yet you choose to worship and pray to sinners.
I already told you I don't worship anyone except the Almighty God
and i ask the ones in Heaven to pray for me as well as they are completely united to God
2 years ago
Anonymous
>and i ask the ones in Heaven to pray for me as well as they are completely united to God
This idea is not Christian. Ecclesiastes says that all who die have no more to do with what is done under the sun. Communicating with the dead is demonry.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Dead people cannot hear us nor can we communicate with them. This is well documented in the Word.
Once again, if you believe that saints are dead, you have not read the gospel, or you just did not comprehend it
or maybe you just ignore the parts you don't like, such as John 6
2 years ago
Anonymous
They are humans who died and went to Heaven. Doesn't mean they can communicate with humans on Earth. You have absolutely no reason to believe people in Heaven can hear you at all. We connect with Almighty God because of His power. This is power that men and women don't have.
If you think that saints are dead, then you absolutely do not believe in the gospel, or rather have not actually read it
[...]
[...]
Revelation 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
i don't worship Mary.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If we’re going by that logic does anyone die? If I shoot myself right now would it be a sin considering my soul is eternal?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the wages of sin is death
yes, people can spiritually die long before their physical death >Let the dead bury the dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God
2 years ago
Anonymous
Saint are dead, moron. The resurrection hasn't happened yet. >John 11:25 Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live
She's not a marvel hero, she's the mother of God. She doesn't need "abilities", but I would argue that her ability is being a loving mother that has an ear for anyone that accepts Christ.
2 years ago
Anonymous
My wording was trash but why would I just pray to Jesus? What actually is the purposes of praying to one person when I could just pray to god directly?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Tradition, mostly. But I imagine it started somewhere when someone had the thought that Jesus would probably be more likely to listen to his mother than some random shmuck named Gary
2 years ago
Anonymous
>tradition
Makes a lot of sense now thanks
2 years ago
Anonymous
>But I imagine it started somewhere when someone had the thought that Jesus would probably be more likely to listen to his mother than some random shmuck named Gary
What bible have you read that makes Jesus out to be selfish?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes. Even in the rosary, we pray the our father
You don't need saints to pray for you, just as you don't need your friends or family to pray for you. but we are Christians and we do that for each other.
[...]
God incarnate by His perfect nature could not have come into the world by an impure vessel. contrast Mary with the ark of the covenant. No unclean person was allowed anywhere near it, and some died because they touched it uncleanly.
[...] >needs to revolve
it doesn't need to revolve, see first response above
Luke 11:27-28
As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!” But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]
When I say "salvation can only by achieved through Jesus Christ" what do you hear?
Except they neither build statues of them nor pray to them, yet Catholics pray to and make graven images of Mary, Saints, Angels, and enchanted beads. All these things are non-biblical and Catholicism is false.
Wow you really misinterpreted that to mean Mary is the mother of everyone? Talk about missing the point.
>I misinterpreted
No, that was you. The author of John's gospel inserts the "disciple that Jesus loved" as a character that we are to live vicariously through
so if you are a disciple of Christ, Mary is your mother from this scripture
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's completely Cath projection, additions to the Bible that aren't there, but what else is new
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The author of John's gospel inserts the "disciple that Jesus loved" as a character that we are to live vicariously through
Where does he say that?
2 years ago
Anonymous
traditional teaching i believe from the time it was written, around 100 AD, would need to look into it again to give precise answer
They are humans who died and went to Heaven. Doesn't mean they can communicate with humans on Earth. You have absolutely no reason to believe people in Heaven can hear you at all. We connect with Almighty God because of His power. This is power that men and women don't have.
You know what the humans in Heaven who are completely united the eternal God are capable of then?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>traditional teaching i believe from the time it was written, around 100 AD, would need to look into it again to give precise answer
ok so, lies. Got it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>i'm not well read or knowledgeable about this topic so that means you're lying
>You know what the humans in Heaven who are completely united the eternal God are capable of then?
Completely united in sharing His ultimate power? The onus is on you to explain why you even think they'd be able to answer prayers at all. Your views are unrestrained by the Word of God, which means you are liable to just say anything, which is what you are doing.
The universe is part of creation, the souls in Heaven are part of creation. I am not a gnostic who thinks the universe is evil.
By the way your "Word of God" (which doesn't mean what you think it does) was compiled by Catholic priests
Exodus 20:4-5
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
Assuming Adam and Eve were the progenitors of Man what would this verse mean?
don't know what you're trying to say.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>don't know what you're trying to say.
Adam and Eve WERE sinless but by eating the fruit the condemned humanity as a whole to become sinners (Mary included)
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I'm going to make claims about things I heard secondhand that I'm not going to bother to substantiate, and then I'm going to call everyone who calls me out on it uneducated
2 years ago
Anonymous
>was compiled by Catholic priests
Catholic priests that couldn't even follow the instructions they compiled.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The universe is part of creation, the souls in Heaven are part of creation. I am not a gnostic who thinks the universe is evil.
This has nothing to do with anything. >By the way your "Word of God" (which doesn't mean what you think it does) was compiled by Catholic priests
So why don't they follow it?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You know what the humans in Heaven who are completely united the eternal God are capable of then?
Completely united in sharing His ultimate power? The onus is on you to explain why you even think they'd be able to answer prayers at all. Your views are unrestrained by the Word of God, which means you are liable to just say anything, which is what you are doing.
Semantics, you think most people who pray pay attention, let alone know the difference? She's treated like a minor deity at best, and the same applies for the hundreds of existing saints.
Mary was a Godly woman, but you're not supposed to worship her. Catholics are moronic like that. They worship Mary even though she was only mentioned 17 times in the Bible, iirc.
Why would you pray to Mary? She doesn't have any powers. She can't fulfill your prayers. You're just bothering her afterlife. Do you think she's like God's secretary or something?
Why are proties so cranky? Didn't rewatch enough God's Not Dead today?
We don't worship her. I honestly feel bad for Protestants who don't know the power of the Rosary. One of the most beautiful things I have witnessed is seeing my fiance's whole family pray a decade of the Rosary every night before bed, and I knew when I first started dating her, and they let me pray with her and the senpai that she was the one and that I was now part of their family.
most of us are catholic or orthodox. the prots usually make dumb arguments that are refuted instantly
When I say "salvation can only by achieved through Jesus Christ" what do you hear?
That the act of Salvation can only by achieved by JC, but Mary can ask nicer. Who do you think will listen Jesus to faster? A random guy or Mary asking for the random guy?
Jesus turned the water to wine at the request of His Mother
Her intercession to her Son is most perfect
2 years ago
Anonymous
[...] >I misinterpreted
No, that was you. The author of John's gospel inserts the "disciple that Jesus loved" as a character that we are to live vicariously through
so if you are a disciple of Christ, Mary is your mother from this scripture
>asking your friend to pray for you is good >asking the Mother of God to pray for you is heresy
prot logic
Revelation 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Jesus was/is literally the kindest man in existence. He sacrificed himself for the salvation of us sinners.Why are you so afraid to ask his help directly?
>Mary was a Godly woman, but you're not supposed to worship her. Catholics are moronic like that.
Yes. Adam was not deceived, he willing chose Eve over God. Catholics perpetuate and promote this grave sin by deifying Mary.
Except they neither build statues of them nor pray to them, yet Catholics pray to and make graven images of Mary, Saints, Angels, and enchanted beads. All these things are non-biblical and Catholicism is false.
We don't worship her. I honestly feel bad for Protestants who don't know the power of the Rosary. One of the most beautiful things I have witnessed is seeing my fiance's whole family pray a decade of the Rosary every night before bed, and I knew when I first started dating her, and they let me pray with her and the senpai that she was the one and that I was now part of their family.
>God blessed and favored the mother of His only son >Catholics take this to mean they should worship her like Isis
2 years ago
Anonymous
Catholics don't worship Mary. They venerate her.
Prots just don't get it because their idea of worship is holding one hand in the air while swaying back and forth to some australian gay playing a cajon
2 years ago
Anonymous
Calling a human woman, who is a sinner, sinless and able to answer prayers in Heaven, is exalting her to the level of Christ. It is worship 101 and Catholics are sick for continuing this blasphemy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Calling a human woman, who is a sinner, sinless and able to answer prayers in Heaven, is exalting her to the level of Christ.
Adam and Eve were sinless too, are you exalting them to admit that? >It is worship 101 and Catholics are sick for continuing this blasphemy.
No, picrel is worship. asking a saint to pray for you is not
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Adam and Eve were sinless too, are you exalting them to admit that?
Were, that's the keyword here. By eating the fruit of eden they were no longer sinless.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.
>No, picrel is worship. asking a saint to pray for you is not
Were in the bible does it say you need saints to pray for you?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I think maybe there's some confusion here. no one is saying you need saints to pray for you. it is just one type of prayer.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Once again why do we need the prayer of saints in the church? Is Jesus not enough?
2 years ago
Anonymous
you (or someone) keeps using this word "need'. it is not the case that you need to ask saints to pray for you. it is one type of prayer, in the same way that you can pray on someone else's behalf or ask them to pray for you. maybe this isn't a common practice in protestant churches idk
2 years ago
Anonymous
Where in the bible does it state we need to ask the saints to pray for us? Our time in church is supposed to be between us and Christ, not us, Christ, some saints, Mary, A pope, and God knows what else.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You don't need saints to pray for you, just as you don't need your friends or family to pray for you. but we are Christians and we do that for each other.
>Adam and Eve were sinless too
They were created that way but then they sinned. Mary was a human sinner, like all descendants of Adam and Eve. >asking a saint to pray for you is not
It is because in no way does the Bible ever tell you that Saints or Mary have the power to answer prayers. Only God has that ability, because He's omnipotent. You're turning humans into God in your heretical ways.
God incarnate by His perfect nature could not have come into the world by an impure vessel. contrast Mary with the ark of the covenant. No unclean person was allowed anywhere near it, and some died because they touched it uncleanly.
Where in the bible does it say your time spent in church needs to revolve around loving and respecting anybody but Jesus and God?
>needs to revolve
it doesn't need to revolve, see first response above
2 years ago
Anonymous
>God incarnate by His perfect nature could not have come into the world by an impure vessel.
You say this, but yet again it is not Biblical. Also, Jesus had siblings in the Bible, so Mary did not die a virgin.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The ark of the covenant is not biblical?
We have entire books of the OT showing what happens when you approach YHWH unworthily
If you believe that Jesus is God incarnate, then it follows that a pure vessel is required to carry Him
And Jesus doesn't have siblings, you can see this link for your refutation:
https://www.catholic.com/qa/does-the-use-of-this-greek-word-for-sibling-indicate-that-jesus-had-brothers
2 years ago
Anonymous
>catholic dot com
lel
The ark of the covenant is Biblical but claiming (once again, for no reason) that Mary is without sin, is exalting her to level of God. Jesus is without sin because he's God. Mary was only human. A sinner. Also, the Bible clearly expresses that Christ had siblings, I read it myself. Maybe try sources other than "my religion is right because it is ok" dot com.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Mary is without sin, is exalting her to level of God. Jesus is without sin because he's God.
bro, can you think through your arguments so I can stop repeating the same things? >Adam and Eve were sinless >..so they were God? no..?
being sinless does not equate to being God and I don't where you pulled that one from
Saint are dead, moron. The resurrection hasn't happened yet. >John 11:25 Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live
the resurrection is for resurrections of the physical body, read the apostle's creed
2 years ago
Anonymous
Exodus 20:4-5
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
Assuming Adam and Eve were the progenitors of Man what would this verse mean?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>bro, can you think through your arguments so I can stop repeating the same things?
No attempt at explaining your view. >being sinless does not equate to being God and I don't where you pulled that one from
Fine, but humans fell after being made in the image of God. Mary then came from these fallen humans. The Bible clearly claims only Christ is without sin (and refers to Him as the second Adam), but never is such a thing claimed about your idol Mary.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>No attempt at explaining your view.
I have explained my view, you just keep asking over and over again
i explained that Mary is the new ark of the covenant briefly, i would invite you to do more research on it yourself instead of mindlessly replying to me with the same thing over and over
we have the benefit of 2000 years of scholars and theologians to lean on
2 years ago
Anonymous
So a few Catholic apologists told you the Mary = ark of the covenant meme, and you believed them? You didn't even stop to check their work?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes, some laymen in 16th century, Catholic Europe got it right but everyone else in history got it wrong. Imagine appealing to the worst kind of authority to make an argument.
2 years ago
Anonymous
yes just like all the israelites got it wrong and kept adopting pagan rituals
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're the one making the claim that 1500 years of Christian scholars were united in their belief that Mary is the ark of the covenant. I'm doubting your claim. Either back it up or stop blustering.
You EVEN ADMITTED YOURSELF THAT AUGUSTINE WAS WRONG ABOUT THINGS, so clearly you're lying when you say thousands of years of church scholars are all agreed on modern catholic dogmas.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You were arguing with someone else. But if the Church has official doctrine, then it's consistent with history and tradition. >Virgin, the Ark, brought forth His own Body into the world from that Ark, which was gilded with pure gold within by the Word, and without by the Holy Ghost - St. Hippolytus (c. 170 - c. 236) >The ark is verily the holy Virgin, gilded within and without, who received the treasure of universal sanctification. - St. Gregory Thaumaturgus (c. 213 - c. 270)
Quick google search found two ancient primary sources.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Here's the actual quote from Hippolytus: >But the Lord was without sin, being of imperishable wood in respect of His humanity,—that is to say, being of the Virgin and the Holy Spirit, covered, as it were, within and without with the purest gold of the Word of God.
In other words, who is the ark? JESUS.
https://ccel.org/ccel/hippolytus/fragments/anf05.iii.iv.ii.vii.vi.html
2 years ago
Anonymous
I've found lots of quotes from different church fathers about this subject. We can quote mine all we want, but it won't change official doctrine.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It's totally fine when I lie
If you have to lie to make your point, maybe your point is false?
2 years ago
Anonymous
How did I lie?
>The Councils are also the Word of God, they gave you the Canonical Bible
The councils didn't give the canonical bible. Otherwise, name the date of the council you think "gave" the canonical bible, and I'll show you quotes from fathers who already treated the new testament as canonical before then.
Wut? It was at the Council of Carthage IIRC. Either way it was decided around the 5th century. This doesn't change the fact that Luther removed the Deuterocanon, nor do you have the right to use what's not yours.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Again it is not tedious to speak of the [books] of the New Testament. These are, the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Afterwards, the Acts of the Apostles and Epistles (called Catholic), seven, viz. of James, one; of Peter, two; of John, three; after these, one of Jude. In addition, there are fourteen Epistles of Paul, written in this order. The first, to the Romans; then two to the Corinthians; after these, to the Galatians; next, to the Ephesians; then to the Philippians; then to the Colossians; after these, two to the Thessalonians, and that to the Hebrews; and again, two to Timothy; one to Titus; and lastly, that to Philemon. And besides, the Revelation of John.
6. These are fountains of salvation, that they who thirst may be satisfied with the living words they contain. In these alone is proclaimed the doctrine of godliness. Let no man add to these, neither let him take ought from these. For concerning these the Lord put to shame the Sadducees, and said, ‘Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures.’ And He reproved the israelites, saying, ‘Search the Scriptures, for these are they that testify of Me4546.’
7. But for greater exactness I add this also, writing of necessity; that there are other books besides these not indeed included in the Canon, but appointed by the Fathers to be read by those who newly join us, and who wish for instruction in the word of godliness. The Wisdom of Solomon, and the Wisdom of Sirach, and Esther, and Judith, and Tobit, and that which is called the Teaching of the Apostles, and the Shepherd. But the former, my brethren, are included in the Canon, the latter being [merely] read; nor is there in any place a mention of apocryphal writings. But they are an invention of heretics, who write them when they choose, bestowing upon them their approbation, and assigning to them a date, that so, using them as ancient writings, they may find occasion to lead astray the simple.
Athanasius, 367
2 years ago
Anonymous
You lied by giving a false quote to support a claim that the original quote did not support.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It wasn't a lie. It was a quote I found, you ignored the other quote for some reason.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Do you really want me to go through all of your quotes and prove you wrong each time?
First of all, apologize to me for lying. Then I'll take you seriously. Otherwise, I know you're just being intellectually dishonest.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're not actually making any arguments. but that's okay, because this thread shouldn't even be up still
2 years ago
Anonymous
>i explained that Mary is the new ark of the covenant briefly
Yeah but there's nothing biblical to back this up so I'm forced to throw it out. Mary is just a woman. The ark of the covenant comparison is irrelevant because no man can look upon God and live, but Jesus is God in the flesh, in a fallen form, birthed into a sin dimension through a woman.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Dead people cannot hear us nor can we communicate with them. This is well documented in the Word.
You're inventing your own version of Christianity. We have always asked for intercession from the Saints. This protestant innovation of abandoning the Saints, hierarchy, icons, apostles, tradition, councils, church fathers, etc is all heretical. You always refer to your interpretation of the Bible as if it's the end all be all, but you're really just worshipping your own mind. The Bible didn't tell you which books should be in the Bible, it was the Church you claim is in heresy. Not only that but Luther removed a substantial amount of books from the Bible because they didn't jive well with him. Any protestant could do this, just pick and choose because you have no respect for sacred tradition or the Church that Christ established.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>This protestant innovation of abandoning the Saints, hierarchy, icons, apostles, tradition, councils, church fathers, etc is all heretical.
Now you're just making shit up. It is you that is abandoning Christ by putting all of these things infront of him.
2 years ago
Anonymous
it does seem like a really strong claim that up until Luther, all Christians got it wrong.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They were led astray. The devil is real and only a fool wouldn't believe that he's trying to push us away from Christ hence the addition of Mary and a Pope conviently placed between you and Christ.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Luther was an Augustinian monk. He got his soteriology from Augustine and the Bible.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes, Augustine was wrong about a lot of things.
They were led astray. The devil is real and only a fool wouldn't believe that he's trying to push us away from Christ hence the addition of Mary and a Pope conviently placed between you and Christ.
The people who have you the Bible that you altered anyway were led astray? Lol, you're taking things from the Church while denouncing them as heretics in the process. Protestantism is for low IQ morons, it's as simple as that.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Gotta love all this contradiction. So you admit that you're picking and choosing from tradition just like Protestants do?
2 years ago
Anonymous
We altered the bible? Doesn't your vatican have a long tradition of doing this?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm not Catholic, they're obviously wrong as well.
Gotta love all this contradiction. So you admit that you're picking and choosing from tradition just like Protestants do?
What contradiction? I don't pick and choose. Everything is defined in canonical laws and the councils. There's nothing outside of that to choose from.
>back to the historical of Church that gave us our creed, canonical text, Christology, and doctrines since the first synods and councils?
Nobody at the council of Nicaea had ever even heard of the ascension of Mary. You're being incredibly anachronistic.
This is a shit argument. Nobody at the councils properly defined Christology until the third Council of Ephesus, does that make the previous two wrong?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Then what are you? And why are you so strongly arguing for Mary worship?
2 years ago
Anonymous
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan. Nobody worships Mary, she holds a special title as the Theotokos and is well regarded as a Saint. Protestants get all crazy over Mary for some reason, why not go crazy over the other Saints? You've smashed their icons already and you're left with a soulless room with wooden furniture, completely separated from the traditions of the Church.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Iconoclasm has a strong and ancient history in the church. The second commandment wasn't invented in the 16th Century.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes, iconoclasts were declared heretical in a Council. It's theologically inconsistent with Christian doctrine.
Are you a catholic? Yes or no? You argue like one of them but claim you're not
>You've smashed their icons already and you're left with a soulless room with wooden furniture,
Yes. There is no place but for Christ in the church.
Again, you don't have Christ. You've invented your own version of Christianity that's not consistent with the ancient church nor do you even make an attempt to claim Apostolic tradition. Your tradition is derived from mentally ill, medieval western Europeans who innovated doctrines they personally wouldn't accept regardless if they contradicted everyone else before them.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Tell me where in your Bible does it say we need icons of saints and statues of Mary in the church?
It's irrelevant which church I follow. It detracts from the subject so you can try and be a snake and change the goalposts.
What subject does in detract from? Idolworship?
2 years ago
Anonymous
You haven't justified your usage of the Bible. It doesn't belong to you nor has it achieved the 'sola scriptura' status that you want it to. The Councils are also the Word of God, they gave you the Canonical Bible you're trying to argue against them with. It's a cycle of contradictions.
You're trying to detract from the fact that you're just heterodox, if not a full blown heretic. You don't have the Church and you don't have Christ.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The Councils are also the Word of God, they gave you the Canonical Bible
The councils didn't give the canonical bible. Otherwise, name the date of the council you think "gave" the canonical bible, and I'll show you quotes from fathers who already treated the new testament as canonical before then.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Are you a catholic? Yes or no? You argue like one of them but claim you're not
>You've smashed their icons already and you're left with a soulless room with wooden furniture,
Yes. There is no place but for Christ in the church.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>>Are you a catholic? Yes or no?
I don't know anon, he's using the Theotokos title, that's Orthodox stuff.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well I asked him before and he's to ashamed to admit what he is.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's irrelevant which church I follow. It detracts from the subject so you can try and be a snake and change the goalposts.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Nobody at the councils properly defined Christology until the third Council of Ephesus, does that make the previous two wrong?
You're the one equating modern Catholicism with the primitive church. You can't go "back" to the church of the 4th Century by believing in the infallibility of the pope and the assumption of Mary.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, you've abandoned all of that even if you try to claim otherwise. You've abandoned Christ by separating yourself from His Church and you have come up with strange doctrine. Who am I going the trust, some guy starting his own church 500 years after the Pope started his own church? Or am I going to go back to the historical of Church that gave us our creed, canonical text, Christology, and doctrines since the first synods and councils? The answer is obvious.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>back to the historical of Church that gave us our creed, canonical text, Christology, and doctrines since the first synods and councils?
Nobody at the council of Nicaea had ever even heard of the ascension of Mary. You're being incredibly anachronistic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, you've abandoned all of that even if you try to claim otherwise. You've abandoned Christ by separating yourself from His Church and you have come up with strange doctrine. Who am I going the trust, some guy starting his own church 500 years after the Pope started his own church? Or am I going to go back to the historical of Church that gave us our creed, canonical text, Christology, and doctrines since the first synods and councils? The answer is obvious.
>Mary is without sin, is exalting her to level of God. Jesus is without sin because he's God.
bro, can you think through your arguments so I can stop repeating the same things? >Adam and Eve were sinless >..so they were God? no..?
being sinless does not equate to being God and I don't where you pulled that one from
[...]
the resurrection is for resurrections of the physical body, read the apostle's creed
i don't tho
[...]
Ecclesiastes is in the OT protlet
You don't ACTUALLY believe the Roman Catholic Church is alluded to in the bible, right? You're aware that shit came much later after dozen upon dozens of denominations, and a lot syncretism and hellenism, right?
2 years ago
Anonymous
if there were a church more directly connected to Jesus Christ, that's where I would be
your "church" is 1500 years too late
2 years ago
Anonymous
You could interpret the scriptures to the best of your abilities. All your church has is seniority and, even then, it falls a few centuries short.
Your church authorities can tell you Song of Songs is about God and the church while the US government says WTC7 fell due to a fire.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Prots are braindead >Church exists >Church creates bible >Frick the church! we only need the bible!
2 years ago
Anonymous
We're telling them the obvious truth, they're so close yet so far away.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Did the Roman Catholic Church WRITE the scriptures?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Are you claiming that Catholics created the bible?
Compile. And your horny heretics threw out multiple books because they didn't like them lol.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>And your horny heretics threw out multiple books because they didn't like them lol.
The irony of a catholic saying this.
2 years ago
Anonymous
when was the catholic church supposed to have been corrupted? was it days after they compiled the books of the bible?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Right after Christ established the Church there was a period of darkness for 1500 years then some German guy got it right.
2 years ago
Anonymous
See
>catholicism is right because it has been fact checked by its own authority figures for centuries
Did you get your 6 flut shots, yet?
2 years ago
Anonymous
From inception. Christianity existed before Papism.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Do you understand the meaning of compile?
2 years ago
Anonymous
If you have a point to make, just make it. There's a reason i used the word "compile" as opposed to "write". but i don't actually know what point it is you want to make.
2 years ago
Anonymous
2 years ago
Anonymous
Are you claiming that Catholics created the bible?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Who created the Bible that Jesus used in his day? It's not the Catholic Church.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Adam and Eve were sinless too
They were created that way but then they sinned. Mary was a human sinner, like all descendants of Adam and Eve. >asking a saint to pray for you is not
It is because in no way does the Bible ever tell you that Saints or Mary have the power to answer prayers. Only God has that ability, because He's omnipotent. You're turning humans into God in your heretical ways.
2 years ago
Anonymous
This is some top shelf reach.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Do protestants take issue with any of the contents of the prayer? I think the point is that it's all true to the bible. but then the question is whether we can ask other people to pray on our behalf. it seems that we can.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Dead people cannot hear us nor can we communicate with them. This is well documented in the Word.
Catholics don't worship Mary. They venerate her.
Prots just don't get it because their idea of worship is holding one hand in the air while swaying back and forth to some australian gay playing a cajon
Catholics don't worship Mary. They venerate her.
Prots just don't get it because their idea of worship is holding one hand in the air while swaying back and forth to some australian gay playing a cajon
I experimented with being religious some years ago, and one thing really stuck out to me: It's that Protestants are some of the stupidest motherfrickers out there. Almost no religion operates on sola scriptura, aside from those morons who insist that's how their god figure would've wanted it. All it takes is a single historical analysis of how the israelites in that region operated to see how baffling stupid the entire debacle is. I respect Muslims more than protestants.
The Magna Mater will always take on a different cultural form.
I find the Hail Mary a particularly specific formula to pray for the well-being of the dead.
Imagine what Mary's life would have been like if the bible was true.
You are a good girl, and god takes a liking to you.
So he rapes you at 14, which makes everyone hate you because they think you're a prostitute.
So you marry that 30 year old carpenter dude because he gave your daddy a goat or something.
You try to find peace in raising your son, but then he goes crazy and starts a cult.
You wish for the best for him anyways, but one day he gets snatched up by the Romans and tortured to death.
Eventually you die and go to heaven and finally find peace.
Until it's ruined by endless prayers from random fricks who want you to forgive them for jacking off or whatever.
You can't prove that god didn't pound her dicky with his giant glowing penis.
But even if he didn't, he still impregnated her without consent. Which is particularly fricked up given the culture she was living in.
I find this sort of faux early /b/ greentext shit extremely cringe. I’m not sure what to pin it on, it’s like the perfunctory sentences with too many periods paired with language that attempts to shock the reader but just ends up coming across as adolescent.
Do you realize the average woman had kids at 14 years old during that era right? You are such a moronic redditor you are imagining Mary crying because she wouldnt be able to go to college or something and her "dreams" in life ruined by this completely ordinary occurrence. Even if we put our fedora and say that god doesnt exist, then she was having sex with random guys and got pregnant, because guess what? it weas the fricking norm. There was no rape or life ruined.
Never mind I just checked afterwards, some say he was in his 90s, some say he was 18-19. Basically no one knows, he's barely mentioned in the Bible anyways
someone add a sussy amoung pequeño somewhere around and perhaps something related to trannies there and the resulting image perfectly encapsulates modern society
Are you obsessed with American politics? Go Protestant. Do you prefer to roleplay as a crusader with old timey rituals and aesthetic buildings like in a fantasy RPG? Go Catholic.
>random prostitute in the middle east gets knocked up >gonna get behead if someone finds out >"uhh actually god did it to me" >christ cucks not only believed this but worship the bastard son
You will never be a Christian. You have no faith, no knowledge of the bible or real interest in religious practice. You are a deranged incel larping as a religious person. All the 'validation' you get is from other tradlarpers. Real christians look at you with disgust and consider you a spiteful degenerate freak. You will never be catholic. You wrench out a fake prayer every morning and hope that it somehow triggers and owns the libtards. Eventually the lack of sex will be too much to bear - you’ll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into the cold abyss. Your parents will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment, knowing that you would have never given them grandchildren anyway. They will bury you without giving you a christian burial since everyone knew you were larping anyway.
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy,
Hail our life, our sweetness and our hope.
To thee do we cry,
Poor banished children of Eve;
To thee do we send up our sighs,
Mourning and weeping in this valley of tears.
Turn then, most gracious advocate,
Thine eyes of mercy toward us;
And after this our exile,
Show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
O clement, O loving,
O sweet Virgin Mary.
Pray for us, O holy Mother of God,
that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
Amen
No, 2022 Cinemaphile is Christian mostly. God bless the orange cheeto who brought new blood into what was essentially a fedora symposium. Now its a trad site.
well it's just throwing a lot of Christians under the bus. and saying well actually this one guy in the 16th century he figured it all out - which parts are good and bad. All that historical stuff - yeah that was all wrong.
>well it's just throwing a lot of Christians under the bus
I suppose it's throwing Catholics under the bus, but that's fine because they're wrong. and follow a false religion. Martin Luther is just a guy. I know Catholics are. materialists who always deify men, so I get why you'd want to make it all about him, but the message is simply that Catholicism as a system of beliefs and teaching is directly contradicted by what the Bible actually says. It's a wonder that there are any Catholics left at all
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I decide what the Bible means
Why can't pr*ts escape this basic problem?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I can't read the Bible and understand what it says
Sounds like you have the bigger problem here, chief
2 years ago
Anonymous
do you personally read and are fluent in hebrew and greek?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I do not, but people who did translated the book into English.
2 years ago
Anonymous
i don't think you realize this, but different languages have different amounts of vocabulary and specificity. claiming that you understand scripture from reading the "english" bible is nonsense. scholars go to the original languages to find out the EXACT meanings of the languages.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The Bible was written for the entire world to have and understand. It's true in every language because God is in control of who He's reaching. You don't sound very faithful here.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I didn't say it wasn't true in every language, I said that some languages have less precision and so meaning can be more difficult to convey
this is an issue for translating any foreign language work
[...]
You gave a false statistic, one that, applied consistently, says that there are hundreds of Catholic denominations. Oops.
are you moronic? protestants are called protestants because they are not catholic. that's how they are defined.
Did the Roman Catholic Church WRITE the scriptures?
No
Are you claiming that Catholics created the bible?
Compiled, so yes in a way. Efficient cause
2 years ago
Anonymous
Watch the video, moron. Maybe you'll stop embarrassing yourself by giving laughably false statistics.
2 years ago
Anonymous
i didn't ever give a statistic so i'm not sure what you are talking about
I did give a FIGURE about number of denominations, which really doesn't matter anyway, it could be 1 prot denomination or a million, it's still heretical
2 years ago
Anonymous
>it doesn't matter if I lie, I'm right anyway
I'm noticing a pattern with Catholics...
2 years ago
Anonymous
I didn't lie
Didn't your pope recently say that homosexuality was okay?
No, he's a lib pope, there are a lot of problems at the vatican, but doctrine does not change
looks like the cathlicucks have been worked up into a seethe
protgays have to be educated somehow
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I didn't lie
So it was someone else who claimed that there are "40000 different sects"?
2 years ago
Anonymous
i said there are 40000 prot denominations
that's not a lie
2 years ago
Anonymous
It is a lie.
Repent.
2 years ago
Anonymous
A lie is intentional misleading homosexual
Even if that video is right (which I would argue against) it doesn't matter
Catholics say this...
what?
And aliens are demons, bozo. I love how Catholics will give up all their senses even when clearly questionable things happen right in front of them. The Pope could wear the hat of a Babylonian fish god and you'd all just blankly accept it. Oh wait, that's already happening.
>aliens are demons
source?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Even if that video is right (which I would argue against)
Then argue against it, homosexual. >A lie is intentional misleading homosexual
So it's not your fault that you tried to mislead? Whose fault is it then?
2 years ago
Anonymous
maybe later, i have to work in the morning
are you the whiny voiced homosexual in the video?
People disagree because we're in a fallen state
that's why this [...]
is not a good point. The Catholic Church is made up of sinners like any church. That's why we should praise God that the Bible can point us into the right direction, which is away from the false Catholic Church.
the bible literally points you to the catholic church.
Prots still can't explain John chapter 6.
There is no existence of alien life mentioned in Genesis.
[...]
Christ is the head.
i'm fairly sure the alien remark was tongue in cheek you autist
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Prots still can't explain John chapter 6.
Yes they can? You seem rather clueless about protestantism, almost like your only familiarity with it is biased Catholic stereotypes about it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I could say the same thing to you.
Tell me then, why does the Pope wear the head of the Babylonian god Dagon as his hat?
I don't know what the frick that is, ask /x/ moron
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I could say the same thing to you.
Then say it. What false stereotypes do I have about Catholics?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>What false stereotypes do I have about Catholics? >worship mary >worship saints
by the way, it would be easier to have a clue about protestant doctrine if that was an actual thing. if you talk to a prot you don't know what they will say. I've had plenty of them tell me that Jesus is not God (a heresy struck down 1700 years ago)
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Venerate >Worship
Semantics
2 years ago
Anonymous
it's not semantics. I love and respect my parents, grandparents, and siblings, and i ask them to pray for me. i do not worship them.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Name one thing someone could do with respect to Mary that you would say is over the line and counts as worship, even if that person says it's only veneration.
2 years ago
Anonymous
basically anything we do for Jesus.
we sacrifice Christ on the altar and eat his body and blood, and fall prostrate before him asking for His mercy and forgiveness
we proclaim Him the King over all of creation with absolute omnipotence
no one does that for Mary and if they do, it would be heretical and a violation of the first commandment.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>and fall prostrate before him asking for His mercy and forgiveness
Many Catholics do this for Mary. >we proclaim Him the King over all of creation with absolute omnipotence
And Catholics call Mary the Queen of Heaven and say she's omnipotent.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Many Catholics do this for Mary.
then they are heretics >And Catholics call Mary the Queen of Heaven
Yes we do >and say she's omnipotent.
No we don't
They reject Catholicism too, bozo
Not really, they just disagree about some creed language. orthodox and catholics believe 99.9% the same things.
you are being a little vague. are your grandparents dead?
some of them
Let me get this straight. You go to church and spend your entire service praying to your grandparents?
No moron. I don't know even know where you would get that.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>No moron. I don't know even know where you would get that.
That's the answer you gave me.
2 years ago
Anonymous
http://resources.ipsissima-verba.org/documents/extraordinary-form-order-of-mass-all-draft-9.pdf
this is what i do in church.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Not really, they just disagree about some creed language. orthodox and catholics believe 99.9% the same things.
I literally heard the interpretation of the church being built on the faith that Peter represented from an Orthodox theologian. This is why they don't accept the Pope as the vicar of Christ on Earth.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So Richard of St. Lawrence and St. Antoine are heretics?
http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/glories6.htm
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, you're just purposefully misreading that to fit with your narrative.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>She is omnipotent, for the queen, according to all laws, enjoys the same privileges as the king; and since the son's power also belongs to the mother, this Mother is made omnipotent by an omnipotent Son.
2 years ago
Anonymous
yeah i would say heretical
2 years ago
Anonymous
>i would say
You don't get a say. Just follow the leader.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>not letting
may the Lord grant us a restful night and a peaceful death.
Amen. close the thread
protgay
2 years ago
Anonymous
none of these statements are true???
2 years ago
Anonymous
>bringing up stuff out of context
Don't know anything about this but protties are the most disingenuous people out there.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's a Catholic website.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Maybe. Quote is still out of context, you smarmy cretin.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's not my fault. Catholics are the ones who love the thrill of blasphemy that goes up their spine when they say "Mother of God". They don't care to put context into that phrase when they use it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>every quote and verse and that disproves catholicucks is le heckin out of contexterino
lmao pathetic religion
2 years ago
Anonymous
it smells like heresy. but i'm also not about to read 1000 pages of this guy's writings to put it into context
2 years ago
Anonymous
However do you go into church and pray to your grandparents to pray to Jesus to save you?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm not the same guy, but yes.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So you pray to everybody BUT Christ?
i ask my grandparents to pray for me
That wasn't the question. Do you go to church and pray to your grandparents to pray to Christ for your sake?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I answered your question moron
Stop being a homosexual
I ask my grandparents to pray for me
2 years ago
Anonymous
you are being a little vague. are your grandparents dead?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Let me get this straight. You go to church and spend your entire service praying to your grandparents?
2 years ago
Anonymous
i ask my grandparents to pray for me
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ask /x/? He's your fricking Pope.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>t. i saw a pic some moron created on mspaint where the pope is wearing a hat that barely resembles an ancient hieroglyph >your move cathcuck
2 years ago
Anonymous
>childish deflection
And you wonder why we call you devil worshippers.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, i am not in fact a devil worshipper because of a moronic meme you saw on reddit
2 years ago
Anonymous
Thanks for conceding.
So no one? Lmao. What do you think the apostles were?
Men lead directly by Christ.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Men lead directly by Christ.
And yet they were born with original sin.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes but the were directly lead by christ so I can be sure that their sins didn't interfere with he's word.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Same goes for the Catholic Church because Christ promised so.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Wrong the catholic church appeared after Christ had left this earth and doesn't even follow the Bible that the apostles had created.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Another anon has already brought up an argument against that being the catholic church.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>muh keys
Cope
2 years ago
Anonymous
>muh keys
2 years ago
Anonymous
The Pope wears a miter, which is modeled after a Babylonian fish god known as Dagon
2 years ago
Anonymous
yep, that's mspaint all right
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ok have a good life ignoring the reality of your satanic religion
2 years ago
Anonymous
There is no existence of alien life mentioned in Genesis.
Still needs a functional hierarchy. As you yourself need a head, so does the Church.
Christ is the head.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Christ is the head.
Bro. Stop playing dumb.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Why are you so desperate to be lead by mortal sinners?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>mortal sinners
No. You don't want to be lead by anyone though. You say only Christ but how would you even determine how to correctly interpret his word? Because the holy spirit works through you and not all the other heretics claiming the same? Pure pride. See where it gets you, I guess.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The bible explicitly states that even the most righteous man is a sinner. So why would I look for man to lead me? Especially when I have Christ.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Especially when I have Christ.
Do you? Or is it just YOUR idea of Christ you have.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's still better than a fallible mortal.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You are a fallible mortal, you moron. Holier men than you have erred and you err all the more. Prideful fool.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Correct but you being a dumb cathcuck, are to stupid to see how you just destroyed your own argument.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Christs own word >holier men than you
No distinction, no nuance in that small mind of yours.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Man is fallen. Our salvation is christ. Not the the preacher standing infront of you. Not your heretic pipe. Not Mary or your saints but Christ.
2 years ago
Anonymous
And who to tell how best to access his mystery? Who to tell how to interpret his teachings? You are spoiled to the point of being rotten.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I don't know but certainly not a fellow sinner.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So no one? Lmao. What do you think the apostles were?
2 years ago
Anonymous
> There is no existence of alien life mentioned in Genesis.
but genesis doesn't say anything about what's happening on other planets?
2 years ago
Anonymous
are demons >source?
Well, given their reported behavior and how they disappear when you call on Jesus' name, it's pretty obvious, not to mention the Earth is flat and space isn't even real. All things factor in to revealing a clearly demonic manifestation, not extraterrestrial at all.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>No, he's a lib pope, there are a lot of problems at the vatican, but doctrine does not change
So you can pick and choose whether you follow him?
2 years ago
Anonymous
And aliens are demons, bozo. I love how Catholics will give up all their senses even when clearly questionable things happen right in front of them. The Pope could wear the hat of a Babylonian fish god and you'd all just blankly accept it. Oh wait, that's already happening.
I don't "follow" the pope, I follow Christ. The pope is just the earthly manager of the church. There can and have been heretical popes. it doesn't mean the church is wrong. it just means that the pope is a sinner, which we already knew.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Are you catholic?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes but the religion itself carries on dark practices. There's a difference between being a sinner and being a man of Satan.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>dark practices
the practices are based on the ancient israeli religion. i'm not sure what you're referring to unless it's >muh praying to Mary
2 years ago
Anonymous
Tell me then, why does the Pope wear the head of the Babylonian god Dagon as his hat?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Lots of protestants don't deny the real presence. I think mormon's, jehova's witnesses, some anglicans, others may. but that's the protestant legacy for you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I didn't say it wasn't true in every language, I said that some languages have less precision and so meaning can be more difficult to convey >this is an issue for translating any foreign language work
Yeah and this means that we need a Pope? What's your point here? The Holy Spirit is available to all and that's just the fact.
2 years ago
Anonymous
constantly shifting goal posts
my argument was that it's foolish for you to apply your own personal scriptural exegesis without doing scholarly research, and my supporting fact i gave was language differences
now you're changing to something about the pope
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah and my argument is that the Bible is made available for everyone to understand through the Holy Spirit because God is a personal God and only Catholics feel the need to gatekeep this.
2 years ago
Anonymous
this logic would mean that no Christians, ever, in 2000 years disagreed about scripture meaning.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Catholics say this...
2 years ago
Anonymous
the catholic church would just say those readings are wrong and heretical. It was a pretty good system for a while.
2 years ago
Anonymous
People disagree because we're in a fallen state
that's why this
Exactly. That's why there's the Catholic Church the gates of hell shall not prevail against.
is not a good point. The Catholic Church is made up of sinners like any church. That's why we should praise God that the Bible can point us into the right direction, which is away from the false Catholic Church.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes, but Christ gave his promise that hell shall not prevail against it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Christ said Hell will not prevail against the church, which is the body of Christ. Catholics wrongly interpret this to mean their thing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes and Protestants and Orthodox take this to mean that Christ was founding His church on Peter's faith, not on the literal man himself
2 years ago
Anonymous
don't drag orthodox in with your nonsense
2 years ago
Anonymous
They reject Catholicism too, bozo
2 years ago
Anonymous
clearly we messed up somewhere. was it the first 1500 years of the church? that seems unlikely, but either way, something went horribly wrong.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You seem to be under the fallacious assumption that catholic doctrine was the same in the sixteenth century as it was in the first century. It is not so. Catholicism gradually accreted many traditions and doctrines over the centuries, so when you talk about catholicism in the sixteenth century, it overlaps with - but is not the same as - catholicism in the first several centuries.
2 years ago
Anonymous
to be clear, i think you're right. but people seem to be opposed to the notion of a pope. which is one of those things we've had from very early on
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the notion of a pope
Again, "the notion of a pope" today is a complex subject that includes many points that are not ancient.
2 years ago
Anonymous
you have to be more specific about what you mean
2 years ago
Anonymous
These are not ancient:
1. That the pope is infallible
2. That the office of pope is an authority above all other bishops
2 years ago
Anonymous
t h e
p o p e
i s
n o t
i n f a l l i b l e
u n l e s s
s p e a k i n g
e x
c a t h e d r a
2 years ago
Anonymous
>He's not infallible until he decides he's infallible
Sigh.
2 years ago
Anonymous
okay. will look into the historicity of these concepts, but I don't find them problematic. it's getting late.
have a hecking good nighterino everyone :^)
2 years ago
Anonymous
Explain all the morbillions of off-shoots then, lol.
2 years ago
Anonymous
People are flawed and messy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Exactly. That's why there's the Catholic Church the gates of hell shall not prevail against.
2 years ago
Anonymous
i'm not the same guy, but we had a buddy in this very thread, struggling with the concept of the logos.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, you cannot. You're guided by your own subjective interpretations instead of the authority that gave you the Bible in the first place.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You do understand how moronic you're being, right? The supposed problem you think you've pointed out about sola scriptura applies equally to sola ecclesia. Because you can't understand what your infallible pope has declared without making a subjective interpretation of what he said.
2 years ago
Anonymous
a bloo abbloogoo vlah blah
FRICK OFF SPOOK
2 years ago
Anonymous
Kek get fricked
Do you really want me to go through all of your quotes and prove you wrong each time?
First of all, apologize to me for lying. Then I'll take you seriously. Otherwise, I know you're just being intellectually dishonest.
I didn't lie, dipshit. You can go through all the quotes I give you and it won't make a difference to you.
>You're guided by your own subjective interpretations instead of the authority that gave you the Bible in the first place
No, I'm guided by the Holy Spirit, who wrote the Word in the first place
Yes, your authority/interpretation is worth less than dog shit. I don't know why prots attach themselves so much to the one thing they can't justify in the first place.
2 years ago
Anonymous
How is giving a false quote to prove a point it doesn't support not lying?
You lied.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Lying needs intention, dumb c**t. Again, you're a dishonest frick that will conveniently ignore any evidence that contradicts you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Oh, so it's not your fault? You have no responsibility for vetting the arguments you swipe from other people and use for yourself to deceive other people?
On second thought, why would you believe those liars in the first place? Doesn't it worry you a bit that you believed something that was false, because you didn't check it first?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Yes, your authority/interpretation is worth less than dog shit. I don't know why prots attach themselves so much to the one thing they can't justify in the first place.
I could say the same thing to you. You attach yourself to the Catholic church whose teachings you can't justify. In fact, those teachings are directly contradicted by the Bible they (pretend to) believe in.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You're guided by your own subjective interpretations instead of the authority that gave you the Bible in the first place
No, I'm guided by the Holy Spirit, who wrote the Word in the first place
2 years ago
Anonymous
it's really annoying when prots call the bible >The Word™
because you get that from John 1 >In the beginning was the Word
translated from logos, referring to Christ, not a book
2 years ago
Anonymous
You know the literal translation of "logos" is "word", right? Meaning, the actual word "word". As in, the Septuagint uses the word "logos" to refer to the word of God in the Old Testament, i.e., the scriptures.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>In the beginning were the scriptures >And the scriptures were with God >And the scriptures were God
Oh now I see
2 years ago
Anonymous
Stop pretending to be moronic. "Word" means "word". Its primary referent is the verbal utterance of God. John uses it to refer to Jesus to make a theological point about Jesus being God's pronouncement.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Okay? That's not what you said before. That's what I said. did you forget which argument you're making?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ok buddy moron. Even if you can't admit you were wrong, I'm happy you aren't going to make that mistake again.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Protestants really believe this
2 years ago
Anonymous
nice argument dummy
2 years ago
Anonymous
Who decided which books are part of the bible? An organization, a church, with their debates, discussions and needs. There cant be sola scriptura because its a compilation decided by committee.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Who decided which books are part of the bible?
The hand of God
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and in the hour of our death. Amen.
Notice how the prayer asks Mary to pray for us, it directly implies that she cannot give any absolution or passage to heaven. Why does a friend praying for us send protestants in such autism infused seething?
Because Jesus said "the only path to the Father is through me." And Catholics disrespect Him by praying to a woman instead. It's an insult and a blasphemy.
False, it is the Holy Spirit that reveals to us the meaning, which we receive by accepting salvation through Jesus
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes I know your position. You're inventing random shit like I can. I have a burning feeling in my heart that the holy spirit dwells within me and it tells me everyone before me is wrong about this verse. You realise how stupid that sounds?
2 years ago
Anonymous
It doesn't sound stupid. Once again you're blinded by your own appeal to history. Not God's fault you refuse correction.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Doesn't matter what you believe. The Holy spirit is telling me you're wrong. Now what? Such a low IQ position to take.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The Holy spirit is telling me you're wrong. Now what?
Now you're bearing false witness. Repent.
>Why does a friend praying for us send protestants in such autism infused seething?
I don't go into church to "ask friends to pray for me" I go into church to pray.
And? Friends praying for you is only a nice gesture. It falls upon you to make your amends with christ. Now amount of "friends praying for you" will bring you salvation.
From our earliest years nothing has ever been closer to Our heart than devotion-filial, profound, and wholehearted-to the most blessed Virgin Mary. Always have We endeavored to do everything that would redound to the greater glory of the Blessed Virgin, promote her honor, and encourage devotion to her. Accordingly, from the very beginning of Our supreme pontificate We have most fervently directed Our energies and Our thoughts to this matter of such great importance.
Great indeed is Our trust in Mary. The resplendent glory of her merits, far exceeding all the choirs of angels, elevates her to the very steps of the throne of God.[1] Her foot has crushed the head of Satan. Set up between Christ and His Church,[2] Mary, ever lovable and full of grace, always has delivered the Christian people from their greatest calamities and from the snares and assaults of all their enemies, ever rescuing them from ruin.
For, God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will, that we obtain everything through Mary.[3]
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9ubipr2.htm
>They have no problem asking for a living friend praying for them
It's a nice gesture. We don't fill our church service with us asking friends to pray for us.
Are the papists in this thread aware that, even if the official catholic position wasn't heretic, millions of catholics around the world DO pray to saints and Mary expecting help directly from them? Somehow, this has never been an urgent issue for the church.
Who are you quoting? Nobody says you can't acknowledge other biblical figures. The fact that you can't even accurately describe what you catholics do shows me that you're ashamed to admit it out loud.
When protestants say stuff like this, it really does just come across as them saying "here's the parts of Christianity that make me uncomfortable". Comparing the beliefs of early christians to paganism should be alarming to you. why are you so willing to compare the historical church to pagans?
>be prot >le holy spirt is heckin burnin within me >im finna speakin in TONGGGUUUES
ADHADAHHSDA BASADASD LASDPSADKIAS KLASFJGKHFAS DJKSADS SAJKFJASKSAD
and? the church's mission is to spread the message of Christ to every galaxy
2 years ago
Anonymous
And aliens are demons, bozo. I love how Catholics will give up all their senses even when clearly questionable things happen right in front of them. The Pope could wear the hat of a Babylonian fish god and you'd all just blankly accept it. Oh wait, that's already happening.
Protestantism has no functioning hierarchy and cut itself off from tradition. That's all you need to know to understand how fundamentally broken it is.
Protestantism was just an excuse to fight the power of the church. While I can understand how greedy nobles would want that, the fact that commoners fell for it is absolutely hilarious.
Christian hierarchy: >Colossians 2:19 holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
In our lords eyes were all the same. You'd know if you read the Bible.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Before him, yes. We all have to adhere to his laws. Among each other we're not equal though. We all come differently equipped and there is absolutely no way you could deny that.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes amongst us were not equal but were speaking about his church here.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Still needs a functional hierarchy. As you yourself need a head, so does the Church.
O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the goods which God grants to us miserable sinners, and for this reason he has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinnerswho have recourse to thee. Come then, to my help, dearest Mother, for I recommend myself to thee. In thy hands I place my eternal salvation and to thee do I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it isenough for me. For, if thou protect me, dear Mother, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou are more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my Judge himself, because by one prayer from thee he will be appeased. But one thing I fear, that in the hour of temptation I may neglect to call on thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, then, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace always to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help.
Referring to Peter in this context was referring to his faith, not him as a church leader. But it's just so ironic because the gates of Hell have no doubt prevailed over the Catholic Church. If you followed God instead of the church you could see that. They are the most materialistic and opulent religion known to man. Jesus was a servant of all, and the Pope sits on a golden throne with gilded robes, carrying a scepter of serpents and wearing a Babylonian fish god hat, all the while the Vatican sits on catacombs of bones. St. Peter's Basilica (meaning Peter's basilisk) is shaped like the head of a serpent. The signs are everywhere that this is a religion of this world, and not of God.
why is jesus trans
That's a sepate being you can also pray to if you want. Still monotheism btw
>praying to the virgin mary
why are catholics such heretics
>asking your friend to pray for you is good
>asking the Mother of God to pray for you is heresy
prot logic
>communicating with the dead is heresy
ftfy
>Dead
Assumed.
Yes, they live in Heaven, but only Christ rose from the dead on His own accord. Everyone else can only get into Heaven through Him. And yet you choose to worship and pray to sinners. Curious,
>And yet you choose to worship and pray to sinners.
I already told you I don't worship anyone except the Almighty God
and i ask the ones in Heaven to pray for me as well as they are completely united to God
>and i ask the ones in Heaven to pray for me as well as they are completely united to God
This idea is not Christian. Ecclesiastes says that all who die have no more to do with what is done under the sun. Communicating with the dead is demonry.
Once again, if you believe that saints are dead, you have not read the gospel, or you just did not comprehend it
or maybe you just ignore the parts you don't like, such as John 6
They are humans who died and went to Heaven. Doesn't mean they can communicate with humans on Earth. You have absolutely no reason to believe people in Heaven can hear you at all. We connect with Almighty God because of His power. This is power that men and women don't have.
>saints are dead
- protestants
>asking a dead person with zero abilities to pray for you
Why? Genuine question
If you think that saints are dead, then you absolutely do not believe in the gospel, or rather have not actually read it
i don't worship Mary.
If we’re going by that logic does anyone die? If I shoot myself right now would it be a sin considering my soul is eternal?
>the wages of sin is death
yes, people can spiritually die long before their physical death
>Let the dead bury the dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God
Saint are dead, moron. The resurrection hasn't happened yet.
>John 11:25 Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live
She's not a marvel hero, she's the mother of God. She doesn't need "abilities", but I would argue that her ability is being a loving mother that has an ear for anyone that accepts Christ.
My wording was trash but why would I just pray to Jesus? What actually is the purposes of praying to one person when I could just pray to god directly?
Tradition, mostly. But I imagine it started somewhere when someone had the thought that Jesus would probably be more likely to listen to his mother than some random shmuck named Gary
>tradition
Makes a lot of sense now thanks
>But I imagine it started somewhere when someone had the thought that Jesus would probably be more likely to listen to his mother than some random shmuck named Gary
What bible have you read that makes Jesus out to be selfish?
Luke 11:27-28
As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!” But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
Catholicism makes less sense than protestants
fricking PuebluANOS i swear.
I already miss him bros..
Keep your religion out of my theatre
Frick you. I worship minions and you can't stop me.
keep yours out of mine
No way heretic. Its 2022 years after the birth of our Lord or do you live in a different timeline?
Keep your religion out of science. K thnx
They should teach evolution, but the big bang is basically bullshit they dont know what they're talking about.
I like the symbolism of this image. It looks like the Virgin Mary is going "why?".
Is this typical in Mexico?
kind of, not any cinema has a virgin Mary on it
No, 1st one I've seen in 30 something years.
Hail Mary
>worshiping women
You don't pray to her, you pray through her.
Not biblical
The Bible also isn't in the Bible, Protestanon
>a set does not contain itself
More news at 11
>"No man can reach the Father but through me" - Jesus Christ
>Catholics choose to pray to Mary for absolutely no reason
rip
And? What is this supposed to change?
>I misinterpreted
No, that was you. The author of John's gospel inserts the "disciple that Jesus loved" as a character that we are to live vicariously through
so if you are a disciple of Christ, Mary is your mother from this scripture
That's completely Cath projection, additions to the Bible that aren't there, but what else is new
>The author of John's gospel inserts the "disciple that Jesus loved" as a character that we are to live vicariously through
Where does he say that?
traditional teaching i believe from the time it was written, around 100 AD, would need to look into it again to give precise answer
You know what the humans in Heaven who are completely united the eternal God are capable of then?
>traditional teaching i believe from the time it was written, around 100 AD, would need to look into it again to give precise answer
ok so, lies. Got it.
>i'm not well read or knowledgeable about this topic so that means you're lying
The universe is part of creation, the souls in Heaven are part of creation. I am not a gnostic who thinks the universe is evil.
By the way your "Word of God" (which doesn't mean what you think it does) was compiled by Catholic priests
don't know what you're trying to say.
>don't know what you're trying to say.
Adam and Eve WERE sinless but by eating the fruit the condemned humanity as a whole to become sinners (Mary included)
>I'm going to make claims about things I heard secondhand that I'm not going to bother to substantiate, and then I'm going to call everyone who calls me out on it uneducated
>was compiled by Catholic priests
Catholic priests that couldn't even follow the instructions they compiled.
>The universe is part of creation, the souls in Heaven are part of creation. I am not a gnostic who thinks the universe is evil.
This has nothing to do with anything.
>By the way your "Word of God" (which doesn't mean what you think it does) was compiled by Catholic priests
So why don't they follow it?
>You know what the humans in Heaven who are completely united the eternal God are capable of then?
Completely united in sharing His ultimate power? The onus is on you to explain why you even think they'd be able to answer prayers at all. Your views are unrestrained by the Word of God, which means you are liable to just say anything, which is what you are doing.
Wow you really misinterpreted that to mean Mary is the mother of everyone? Talk about missing the point.
Semantics, you think most people who pray pay attention, let alone know the difference? She's treated like a minor deity at best, and the same applies for the hundreds of existing saints.
Catholics don't worship her. It's veneration dumbass.
Yeah, keep telling yourself that lmao
Ok troony
The mother of our savior what's the problem
False idol
Mary was a Godly woman, but you're not supposed to worship her. Catholics are moronic like that. They worship Mary even though she was only mentioned 17 times in the Bible, iirc.
I pray to the virgin Mary.
Why would you pray to Mary? She doesn't have any powers. She can't fulfill your prayers. You're just bothering her afterlife. Do you think she's like God's secretary or something?
>she doesn't because of my headcanon
protestants...
She doesn't because of the bible you fricking moron.
she's not a virgin
When I say "salvation can only by achieved through Jesus Christ" what do you hear?
That the act of Salvation can only by achieved by JC, but Mary can ask nicer. Who do you think will listen Jesus to faster? A random guy or Mary asking for the random guy?
Got it. Now tell me where did the Mary part come from?
Jesus turned the water to wine at the request of His Mother
Her intercession to her Son is most perfect
Revelation 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
>Who do you think will listen Jesus to faster?
this sounds wrong
Jesus was/is literally the kindest man in existence. He sacrificed himself for the salvation of us sinners.Why are you so afraid to ask his help directly?
Catholics literally also do this.
Do they?
Yes. Even in the rosary, we pray the our father
So Catholics tolerate both truth and falsehood under their umbrella. Seems like a bad thing, no?
t. Juan Ednaldo Diaz Reyes de le Playa y Comida
>I pray to the virgin Mary.
Have fun burning in hell for eternity.
>expecting Catholics to know what's on the Bible
>Mary was a Godly woman, but you're not supposed to worship her. Catholics are moronic like that.
Yes. Adam was not deceived, he willing chose Eve over God. Catholics perpetuate and promote this grave sin by deifying Mary.
Protestants worship Martin Luther and Satan.
Except they neither build statues of them nor pray to them, yet Catholics pray to and make graven images of Mary, Saints, Angels, and enchanted beads. All these things are non-biblical and Catholicism is false.
We don't worship her. I honestly feel bad for Protestants who don't know the power of the Rosary. One of the most beautiful things I have witnessed is seeing my fiance's whole family pray a decade of the Rosary every night before bed, and I knew when I first started dating her, and they let me pray with her and the senpai that she was the one and that I was now part of their family.
>le enchanted beads
Imagine not praying the rosary before going to sleep lmao
Tell me, where can I find the rosary prayer in the Bible?
>God blessed and favored the mother of His only son
>Catholics take this to mean they should worship her like Isis
Calling a human woman, who is a sinner, sinless and able to answer prayers in Heaven, is exalting her to the level of Christ. It is worship 101 and Catholics are sick for continuing this blasphemy.
>Calling a human woman, who is a sinner, sinless and able to answer prayers in Heaven, is exalting her to the level of Christ.
Adam and Eve were sinless too, are you exalting them to admit that?
>It is worship 101 and Catholics are sick for continuing this blasphemy.
No, picrel is worship. asking a saint to pray for you is not
>Adam and Eve were sinless too, are you exalting them to admit that?
Were, that's the keyword here. By eating the fruit of eden they were no longer sinless.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.
>No, picrel is worship. asking a saint to pray for you is not
Were in the bible does it say you need saints to pray for you?
I think maybe there's some confusion here. no one is saying you need saints to pray for you. it is just one type of prayer.
Once again why do we need the prayer of saints in the church? Is Jesus not enough?
you (or someone) keeps using this word "need'. it is not the case that you need to ask saints to pray for you. it is one type of prayer, in the same way that you can pray on someone else's behalf or ask them to pray for you. maybe this isn't a common practice in protestant churches idk
Where in the bible does it state we need to ask the saints to pray for us? Our time in church is supposed to be between us and Christ, not us, Christ, some saints, Mary, A pope, and God knows what else.
You don't need saints to pray for you, just as you don't need your friends or family to pray for you. but we are Christians and we do that for each other.
God incarnate by His perfect nature could not have come into the world by an impure vessel. contrast Mary with the ark of the covenant. No unclean person was allowed anywhere near it, and some died because they touched it uncleanly.
>needs to revolve
it doesn't need to revolve, see first response above
>God incarnate by His perfect nature could not have come into the world by an impure vessel.
You say this, but yet again it is not Biblical. Also, Jesus had siblings in the Bible, so Mary did not die a virgin.
The ark of the covenant is not biblical?
We have entire books of the OT showing what happens when you approach YHWH unworthily
If you believe that Jesus is God incarnate, then it follows that a pure vessel is required to carry Him
And Jesus doesn't have siblings, you can see this link for your refutation:
https://www.catholic.com/qa/does-the-use-of-this-greek-word-for-sibling-indicate-that-jesus-had-brothers
>catholic dot com
lel
The ark of the covenant is Biblical but claiming (once again, for no reason) that Mary is without sin, is exalting her to level of God. Jesus is without sin because he's God. Mary was only human. A sinner. Also, the Bible clearly expresses that Christ had siblings, I read it myself. Maybe try sources other than "my religion is right because it is ok" dot com.
>Mary is without sin, is exalting her to level of God. Jesus is without sin because he's God.
bro, can you think through your arguments so I can stop repeating the same things?
>Adam and Eve were sinless
>..so they were God? no..?
being sinless does not equate to being God and I don't where you pulled that one from
the resurrection is for resurrections of the physical body, read the apostle's creed
Exodus 20:4-5
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
Assuming Adam and Eve were the progenitors of Man what would this verse mean?
>bro, can you think through your arguments so I can stop repeating the same things?
No attempt at explaining your view.
>being sinless does not equate to being God and I don't where you pulled that one from
Fine, but humans fell after being made in the image of God. Mary then came from these fallen humans. The Bible clearly claims only Christ is without sin (and refers to Him as the second Adam), but never is such a thing claimed about your idol Mary.
>No attempt at explaining your view.
I have explained my view, you just keep asking over and over again
i explained that Mary is the new ark of the covenant briefly, i would invite you to do more research on it yourself instead of mindlessly replying to me with the same thing over and over
we have the benefit of 2000 years of scholars and theologians to lean on
So a few Catholic apologists told you the Mary = ark of the covenant meme, and you believed them? You didn't even stop to check their work?
Yes, some laymen in 16th century, Catholic Europe got it right but everyone else in history got it wrong. Imagine appealing to the worst kind of authority to make an argument.
yes just like all the israelites got it wrong and kept adopting pagan rituals
You're the one making the claim that 1500 years of Christian scholars were united in their belief that Mary is the ark of the covenant. I'm doubting your claim. Either back it up or stop blustering.
You EVEN ADMITTED YOURSELF THAT AUGUSTINE WAS WRONG ABOUT THINGS, so clearly you're lying when you say thousands of years of church scholars are all agreed on modern catholic dogmas.
You were arguing with someone else. But if the Church has official doctrine, then it's consistent with history and tradition.
>Virgin, the Ark, brought forth His own Body into the world from that Ark, which was gilded with pure gold within by the Word, and without by the Holy Ghost - St. Hippolytus (c. 170 - c. 236)
>The ark is verily the holy Virgin, gilded within and without, who received the treasure of universal sanctification. - St. Gregory Thaumaturgus (c. 213 - c. 270)
Quick google search found two ancient primary sources.
Here's the actual quote from Hippolytus:
>But the Lord was without sin, being of imperishable wood in respect of His humanity,—that is to say, being of the Virgin and the Holy Spirit, covered, as it were, within and without with the purest gold of the Word of God.
In other words, who is the ark? JESUS.
https://ccel.org/ccel/hippolytus/fragments/anf05.iii.iv.ii.vii.vi.html
I've found lots of quotes from different church fathers about this subject. We can quote mine all we want, but it won't change official doctrine.
>It's totally fine when I lie
If you have to lie to make your point, maybe your point is false?
How did I lie?
Wut? It was at the Council of Carthage IIRC. Either way it was decided around the 5th century. This doesn't change the fact that Luther removed the Deuterocanon, nor do you have the right to use what's not yours.
Again it is not tedious to speak of the [books] of the New Testament. These are, the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Afterwards, the Acts of the Apostles and Epistles (called Catholic), seven, viz. of James, one; of Peter, two; of John, three; after these, one of Jude. In addition, there are fourteen Epistles of Paul, written in this order. The first, to the Romans; then two to the Corinthians; after these, to the Galatians; next, to the Ephesians; then to the Philippians; then to the Colossians; after these, two to the Thessalonians, and that to the Hebrews; and again, two to Timothy; one to Titus; and lastly, that to Philemon. And besides, the Revelation of John.
6. These are fountains of salvation, that they who thirst may be satisfied with the living words they contain. In these alone is proclaimed the doctrine of godliness. Let no man add to these, neither let him take ought from these. For concerning these the Lord put to shame the Sadducees, and said, ‘Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures.’ And He reproved the israelites, saying, ‘Search the Scriptures, for these are they that testify of Me4546.’
7. But for greater exactness I add this also, writing of necessity; that there are other books besides these not indeed included in the Canon, but appointed by the Fathers to be read by those who newly join us, and who wish for instruction in the word of godliness. The Wisdom of Solomon, and the Wisdom of Sirach, and Esther, and Judith, and Tobit, and that which is called the Teaching of the Apostles, and the Shepherd. But the former, my brethren, are included in the Canon, the latter being [merely] read; nor is there in any place a mention of apocryphal writings. But they are an invention of heretics, who write them when they choose, bestowing upon them their approbation, and assigning to them a date, that so, using them as ancient writings, they may find occasion to lead astray the simple.
Athanasius, 367
You lied by giving a false quote to support a claim that the original quote did not support.
It wasn't a lie. It was a quote I found, you ignored the other quote for some reason.
Do you really want me to go through all of your quotes and prove you wrong each time?
First of all, apologize to me for lying. Then I'll take you seriously. Otherwise, I know you're just being intellectually dishonest.
You're not actually making any arguments. but that's okay, because this thread shouldn't even be up still
>i explained that Mary is the new ark of the covenant briefly
Yeah but there's nothing biblical to back this up so I'm forced to throw it out. Mary is just a woman. The ark of the covenant comparison is irrelevant because no man can look upon God and live, but Jesus is God in the flesh, in a fallen form, birthed into a sin dimension through a woman.
You're inventing your own version of Christianity. We have always asked for intercession from the Saints. This protestant innovation of abandoning the Saints, hierarchy, icons, apostles, tradition, councils, church fathers, etc is all heretical. You always refer to your interpretation of the Bible as if it's the end all be all, but you're really just worshipping your own mind. The Bible didn't tell you which books should be in the Bible, it was the Church you claim is in heresy. Not only that but Luther removed a substantial amount of books from the Bible because they didn't jive well with him. Any protestant could do this, just pick and choose because you have no respect for sacred tradition or the Church that Christ established.
>This protestant innovation of abandoning the Saints, hierarchy, icons, apostles, tradition, councils, church fathers, etc is all heretical.
Now you're just making shit up. It is you that is abandoning Christ by putting all of these things infront of him.
it does seem like a really strong claim that up until Luther, all Christians got it wrong.
They were led astray. The devil is real and only a fool wouldn't believe that he's trying to push us away from Christ hence the addition of Mary and a Pope conviently placed between you and Christ.
Luther was an Augustinian monk. He got his soteriology from Augustine and the Bible.
Yes, Augustine was wrong about a lot of things.
The people who have you the Bible that you altered anyway were led astray? Lol, you're taking things from the Church while denouncing them as heretics in the process. Protestantism is for low IQ morons, it's as simple as that.
Gotta love all this contradiction. So you admit that you're picking and choosing from tradition just like Protestants do?
We altered the bible? Doesn't your vatican have a long tradition of doing this?
I'm not Catholic, they're obviously wrong as well.
What contradiction? I don't pick and choose. Everything is defined in canonical laws and the councils. There's nothing outside of that to choose from.
This is a shit argument. Nobody at the councils properly defined Christology until the third Council of Ephesus, does that make the previous two wrong?
Then what are you? And why are you so strongly arguing for Mary worship?
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan. Nobody worships Mary, she holds a special title as the Theotokos and is well regarded as a Saint. Protestants get all crazy over Mary for some reason, why not go crazy over the other Saints? You've smashed their icons already and you're left with a soulless room with wooden furniture, completely separated from the traditions of the Church.
Iconoclasm has a strong and ancient history in the church. The second commandment wasn't invented in the 16th Century.
Yes, iconoclasts were declared heretical in a Council. It's theologically inconsistent with Christian doctrine.
Again, you don't have Christ. You've invented your own version of Christianity that's not consistent with the ancient church nor do you even make an attempt to claim Apostolic tradition. Your tradition is derived from mentally ill, medieval western Europeans who innovated doctrines they personally wouldn't accept regardless if they contradicted everyone else before them.
Tell me where in your Bible does it say we need icons of saints and statues of Mary in the church?
What subject does in detract from? Idolworship?
You haven't justified your usage of the Bible. It doesn't belong to you nor has it achieved the 'sola scriptura' status that you want it to. The Councils are also the Word of God, they gave you the Canonical Bible you're trying to argue against them with. It's a cycle of contradictions.
You're trying to detract from the fact that you're just heterodox, if not a full blown heretic. You don't have the Church and you don't have Christ.
>The Councils are also the Word of God, they gave you the Canonical Bible
The councils didn't give the canonical bible. Otherwise, name the date of the council you think "gave" the canonical bible, and I'll show you quotes from fathers who already treated the new testament as canonical before then.
Are you a catholic? Yes or no? You argue like one of them but claim you're not
>You've smashed their icons already and you're left with a soulless room with wooden furniture,
Yes. There is no place but for Christ in the church.
>>Are you a catholic? Yes or no?
I don't know anon, he's using the Theotokos title, that's Orthodox stuff.
Well I asked him before and he's to ashamed to admit what he is.
It's irrelevant which church I follow. It detracts from the subject so you can try and be a snake and change the goalposts.
>Nobody at the councils properly defined Christology until the third Council of Ephesus, does that make the previous two wrong?
You're the one equating modern Catholicism with the primitive church. You can't go "back" to the church of the 4th Century by believing in the infallibility of the pope and the assumption of Mary.
No, you've abandoned all of that even if you try to claim otherwise. You've abandoned Christ by separating yourself from His Church and you have come up with strange doctrine. Who am I going the trust, some guy starting his own church 500 years after the Pope started his own church? Or am I going to go back to the historical of Church that gave us our creed, canonical text, Christology, and doctrines since the first synods and councils? The answer is obvious.
>back to the historical of Church that gave us our creed, canonical text, Christology, and doctrines since the first synods and councils?
Nobody at the council of Nicaea had ever even heard of the ascension of Mary. You're being incredibly anachronistic.
You don't ACTUALLY believe the Roman Catholic Church is alluded to in the bible, right? You're aware that shit came much later after dozen upon dozens of denominations, and a lot syncretism and hellenism, right?
if there were a church more directly connected to Jesus Christ, that's where I would be
your "church" is 1500 years too late
You could interpret the scriptures to the best of your abilities. All your church has is seniority and, even then, it falls a few centuries short.
Your church authorities can tell you Song of Songs is about God and the church while the US government says WTC7 fell due to a fire.
Prots are braindead
>Church exists
>Church creates bible
>Frick the church! we only need the bible!
We're telling them the obvious truth, they're so close yet so far away.
Did the Roman Catholic Church WRITE the scriptures?
Compile. And your horny heretics threw out multiple books because they didn't like them lol.
>And your horny heretics threw out multiple books because they didn't like them lol.
The irony of a catholic saying this.
when was the catholic church supposed to have been corrupted? was it days after they compiled the books of the bible?
Right after Christ established the Church there was a period of darkness for 1500 years then some German guy got it right.
See
Did you get your 6 flut shots, yet?
From inception. Christianity existed before Papism.
Do you understand the meaning of compile?
If you have a point to make, just make it. There's a reason i used the word "compile" as opposed to "write". but i don't actually know what point it is you want to make.
Are you claiming that Catholics created the bible?
Who created the Bible that Jesus used in his day? It's not the Catholic Church.
>Adam and Eve were sinless too
They were created that way but then they sinned. Mary was a human sinner, like all descendants of Adam and Eve.
>asking a saint to pray for you is not
It is because in no way does the Bible ever tell you that Saints or Mary have the power to answer prayers. Only God has that ability, because He's omnipotent. You're turning humans into God in your heretical ways.
This is some top shelf reach.
Do protestants take issue with any of the contents of the prayer? I think the point is that it's all true to the bible. but then the question is whether we can ask other people to pray on our behalf. it seems that we can.
Dead people cannot hear us nor can we communicate with them. This is well documented in the Word.
Catholics don't worship Mary. They venerate her.
Prots just don't get it because their idea of worship is holding one hand in the air while swaying back and forth to some australian gay playing a cajon
Yeah they're dumbasses.
Protestants have given christianism a bad name though their inmense fanatical moronation, shut the frick up.
I'm catholic and no one has ever told me to worship her.
Let me get this straight. The bible doesn't tell you to worship Mary and neither does the catholic church but yet you do?
I've never worshipped her. I bet that was funnier in your head.
>venerate
>worship
Why do you Catholics play these word games?
>i can't say i love or respect anyone because that means i'm worshipping them!!!
- protestant logic
Where in the bible does it say your time spent in church needs to revolve around loving and respecting anybody but Jesus and God?
Because it's a holdover from pagan worship, making it based
I experimented with being religious some years ago, and one thing really stuck out to me: It's that Protestants are some of the stupidest motherfrickers out there. Almost no religion operates on sola scriptura, aside from those morons who insist that's how their god figure would've wanted it. All it takes is a single historical analysis of how the israelites in that region operated to see how baffling stupid the entire debacle is. I respect Muslims more than protestants.
The Magna Mater will always take on a different cultural form.
I find the Hail Mary a particularly specific formula to pray for the well-being of the dead.
>I find the Hail Mary a particularly specific formula to pray for the well-being of the dead.
What?
who is this cute prostitute?
DollBlush
You protties really need to do your homework and stop perpetuating lies. You are what brought down Western civilization and I'm not even memeing.
Remind us then? How long did America exist as a protestant nation before Catholics arrived? And how long after they arrived did its downfall begin?
there was a similar statue of Mary in the church i went to growing up that had her stepping on a snake and it always kind of freaked me out
Are you trans by any chance?
No he instinctively knows that you practice devil worship.
Soul. Literally.
If Jesus could go to the lepers and hookers, Mary can go to the kinoplex.
TRUTH
Why are proties so cranky? Didn't rewatch enough God's Not Dead today?
assmad they got left below
Did you kiss francis' feet today, anon?
>AAHHHHHHHHH SOMETHING THAT ISNT SOULLESS CAPITALIST BULLSHIT IN PUBLIC!!!! IM GOING INSAAAAAANEEEE
Imagine what Mary's life would have been like if the bible was true.
You are a good girl, and god takes a liking to you.
So he rapes you at 14, which makes everyone hate you because they think you're a prostitute.
So you marry that 30 year old carpenter dude because he gave your daddy a goat or something.
You try to find peace in raising your son, but then he goes crazy and starts a cult.
You wish for the best for him anyways, but one day he gets snatched up by the Romans and tortured to death.
Eventually you die and go to heaven and finally find peace.
Until it's ruined by endless prayers from random fricks who want you to forgive them for jacking off or whatever.
I wish I could wear a cool cape like that in public
>heh, an immaculate conception is heckin RAPE and jesus is a friggin CULTIST dude
get a new line reddit
>doesn't know what immaculate conception is
Well, it's true. It was a cult back then and it's technically rape.
being penetrated by someone is rape. you don’t say you’ve been raped by a zit or wart that grows on your face “without consent”
You can't prove that god didn't pound her dicky with his giant glowing penis.
But even if he didn't, he still impregnated her without consent. Which is particularly fricked up given the culture she was living in.
You're a mentally ill, unironic sick frick.
>comparing jesus to a zit or wart
Kek your words not mine
Jesus was definitely a cult leader. You just don't like the word.
is every religion is a cult?
I find this sort of faux early /b/ greentext shit extremely cringe. I’m not sure what to pin it on, it’s like the perfunctory sentences with too many periods paired with language that attempts to shock the reader but just ends up coming across as adolescent.
That sounds pretty spot on.
Didn't know early /b/ had fedoras. Thanks, senpai.
sounds like your average latina
Do you realize the average woman had kids at 14 years old during that era right? You are such a moronic redditor you are imagining Mary crying because she wouldnt be able to go to college or something and her "dreams" in life ruined by this completely ordinary occurrence. Even if we put our fedora and say that god doesnt exist, then she was having sex with random guys and got pregnant, because guess what? it weas the fricking norm. There was no rape or life ruined.
Good catch, he outs himself as a redditor by implicitly assuming modern gay values.
Im suprised you didn't find a way to fit more of your buzzwords like "magic sky daddy"
>So you marry that 30 year old carpenter dude
kek Joseph was in his 70s or something when he married her iirc
where do people come up with this shit?
Never mind I just checked afterwards, some say he was in his 90s, some say he was 18-19. Basically no one knows, he's barely mentioned in the Bible anyways
May God bless Gru Hadrian Jesus
someone add a sussy amoung pequeño somewhere around and perhaps something related to trannies there and the resulting image perfectly encapsulates modern society
Salve Regina!!
>hello sexy dear friend. You please cum bangladesh. i receive you
Sorry, I missed the memo but now that Cinemaphile is a Christian conservative site are we supposed to be protestant or catholics?
most of us are catholic or orthodox. the prots usually make dumb arguments that are refuted instantly
Are you obsessed with American politics? Go Protestant. Do you prefer to roleplay as a crusader with old timey rituals and aesthetic buildings like in a fantasy RPG? Go Catholic.
You are making it an easy choice
It's like watching Dumb and Dumber fight.
more like
Wow really clever metaphor, Dumb and Dumber
Christians made up basically ever smart person ever btw.
Which theater has this consumerism exhibit. I might just pay the single tax for this one 😉
>it's a protcuck heretic episode
lmao it feels like I'm shitposting on Cinemaphile in 2015 again
>christian infighting
golly gee, who could be behind this post
Some of the most moronic motherfrickers on this earth are in this thread right now
You mean the atheists or the protestant screeching? Because I think the fedoras already left in shame from the thread.
He means the Catholics who think they're Christian
KNEEL BEFORE MY MINIONS
AS THEY KNEEL BEFORE ME
kek when they're not raping kids at the vatican christ cucks are worshipping this literal prostitute
Not a prostitute moron.
>random prostitute in the middle east gets knocked up
>gonna get behead if someone finds out
>"uhh actually god did it to me"
>christ cucks not only believed this but worship the bastard son
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
That's not a "literal prostitute"
Marthin Luther shares his name with a Black person lmao
Incorrect, he shares his name with TWO (2) [II] Black folk.
What movie is that promoting?
The movie of real life.
Religion is cringe
So who actually wrote the Bible if Jesus died in the end?
the apostles wrote the new testament
Praise Ishtar!
>Things Christcucks don't want you to know
Real Christians know that Catholics are pagan.
Christgay larpers are the real redditors, redditor.
You will never be a Christian. You have no faith, no knowledge of the bible or real interest in religious practice. You are a deranged incel larping as a religious person. All the 'validation' you get is from other tradlarpers. Real christians look at you with disgust and consider you a spiteful degenerate freak. You will never be catholic. You wrench out a fake prayer every morning and hope that it somehow triggers and owns the libtards. Eventually the lack of sex will be too much to bear - you’ll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into the cold abyss. Your parents will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment, knowing that you would have never given them grandchildren anyway. They will bury you without giving you a christian burial since everyone knew you were larping anyway.
catholics getting btfo
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy,
Hail our life, our sweetness and our hope.
To thee do we cry,
Poor banished children of Eve;
To thee do we send up our sighs,
Mourning and weeping in this valley of tears.
Turn then, most gracious advocate,
Thine eyes of mercy toward us;
And after this our exile,
Show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
O clement, O loving,
O sweet Virgin Mary.
Pray for us, O holy Mother of God,
that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
Amen
Do Catholics actually spout this devil worship in church?
Cope, sinner
pray Jesus has mercy on you for constantly deriding his mother
Pray Jesus has mercy on you for idolizing his mother - a far graver sin.
i don't tho
Ecclesiastes is in the OT protlet
>Ecclesiastes is in the OT protlet
And? It's still true.
It says no woman IS righteous. It doesnt say there will be never be a righteous woman. At that moment there was no righteous woman.
This devotion comes from nothing. Yet again, your claims are extra-biblical
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
*all except Mary
>*all except Mary
Can you point out the verse that excludes Mary?
The book of Ecclesiastes says not one woman is righteous. That means Mary too, bozo
You ever think that using Cinemaphile is a bad idea if you're a christian?
Catholics (Mary worshipers) aren't Christian
No, 2022 Cinemaphile is Christian mostly. God bless the orange cheeto who brought new blood into what was essentially a fedora symposium. Now its a trad site.
This is Satanic, Catholics are insane
this prayer predates the protestant reformation by 300 years.
>this prayer predates the protestant reformation by 300 years.
And paganism has been around since the beginning, your point?
>Prays to Mary
>calls anyone a sinner
well it's just throwing a lot of Christians under the bus. and saying well actually this one guy in the 16th century he figured it all out - which parts are good and bad. All that historical stuff - yeah that was all wrong.
>well it's just throwing a lot of Christians under the bus
I suppose it's throwing Catholics under the bus, but that's fine because they're wrong. and follow a false religion. Martin Luther is just a guy. I know Catholics are. materialists who always deify men, so I get why you'd want to make it all about him, but the message is simply that Catholicism as a system of beliefs and teaching is directly contradicted by what the Bible actually says. It's a wonder that there are any Catholics left at all
>I decide what the Bible means
Why can't pr*ts escape this basic problem?
>I can't read the Bible and understand what it says
Sounds like you have the bigger problem here, chief
do you personally read and are fluent in hebrew and greek?
I do not, but people who did translated the book into English.
i don't think you realize this, but different languages have different amounts of vocabulary and specificity. claiming that you understand scripture from reading the "english" bible is nonsense. scholars go to the original languages to find out the EXACT meanings of the languages.
The Bible was written for the entire world to have and understand. It's true in every language because God is in control of who He's reaching. You don't sound very faithful here.
I didn't say it wasn't true in every language, I said that some languages have less precision and so meaning can be more difficult to convey
this is an issue for translating any foreign language work
are you moronic? protestants are called protestants because they are not catholic. that's how they are defined.
No
Compiled, so yes in a way. Efficient cause
Watch the video, moron. Maybe you'll stop embarrassing yourself by giving laughably false statistics.
i didn't ever give a statistic so i'm not sure what you are talking about
I did give a FIGURE about number of denominations, which really doesn't matter anyway, it could be 1 prot denomination or a million, it's still heretical
>it doesn't matter if I lie, I'm right anyway
I'm noticing a pattern with Catholics...
I didn't lie
No, he's a lib pope, there are a lot of problems at the vatican, but doctrine does not change
protgays have to be educated somehow
>I didn't lie
So it was someone else who claimed that there are "40000 different sects"?
i said there are 40000 prot denominations
that's not a lie
It is a lie.
Repent.
A lie is intentional misleading homosexual
Even if that video is right (which I would argue against) it doesn't matter
what?
>aliens are demons
source?
>Even if that video is right (which I would argue against)
Then argue against it, homosexual.
>A lie is intentional misleading homosexual
So it's not your fault that you tried to mislead? Whose fault is it then?
maybe later, i have to work in the morning
are you the whiny voiced homosexual in the video?
the bible literally points you to the catholic church.
Prots still can't explain John chapter 6.
i'm fairly sure the alien remark was tongue in cheek you autist
>Prots still can't explain John chapter 6.
Yes they can? You seem rather clueless about protestantism, almost like your only familiarity with it is biased Catholic stereotypes about it.
I could say the same thing to you.
I don't know what the frick that is, ask /x/ moron
>I could say the same thing to you.
Then say it. What false stereotypes do I have about Catholics?
>What false stereotypes do I have about Catholics?
>worship mary
>worship saints
by the way, it would be easier to have a clue about protestant doctrine if that was an actual thing. if you talk to a prot you don't know what they will say. I've had plenty of them tell me that Jesus is not God (a heresy struck down 1700 years ago)
>Venerate
>Worship
Semantics
it's not semantics. I love and respect my parents, grandparents, and siblings, and i ask them to pray for me. i do not worship them.
Name one thing someone could do with respect to Mary that you would say is over the line and counts as worship, even if that person says it's only veneration.
basically anything we do for Jesus.
we sacrifice Christ on the altar and eat his body and blood, and fall prostrate before him asking for His mercy and forgiveness
we proclaim Him the King over all of creation with absolute omnipotence
no one does that for Mary and if they do, it would be heretical and a violation of the first commandment.
>and fall prostrate before him asking for His mercy and forgiveness
Many Catholics do this for Mary.
>we proclaim Him the King over all of creation with absolute omnipotence
And Catholics call Mary the Queen of Heaven and say she's omnipotent.
>Many Catholics do this for Mary.
then they are heretics
>And Catholics call Mary the Queen of Heaven
Yes we do
>and say she's omnipotent.
No we don't
Not really, they just disagree about some creed language. orthodox and catholics believe 99.9% the same things.
some of them
No moron. I don't know even know where you would get that.
>No moron. I don't know even know where you would get that.
That's the answer you gave me.
http://resources.ipsissima-verba.org/documents/extraordinary-form-order-of-mass-all-draft-9.pdf
this is what i do in church.
>Not really, they just disagree about some creed language. orthodox and catholics believe 99.9% the same things.
I literally heard the interpretation of the church being built on the faith that Peter represented from an Orthodox theologian. This is why they don't accept the Pope as the vicar of Christ on Earth.
So Richard of St. Lawrence and St. Antoine are heretics?
http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/glories6.htm
No, you're just purposefully misreading that to fit with your narrative.
>She is omnipotent, for the queen, according to all laws, enjoys the same privileges as the king; and since the son's power also belongs to the mother, this Mother is made omnipotent by an omnipotent Son.
yeah i would say heretical
>i would say
You don't get a say. Just follow the leader.
>not letting
Amen. close the thread
protgay
none of these statements are true???
>bringing up stuff out of context
Don't know anything about this but protties are the most disingenuous people out there.
That's a Catholic website.
Maybe. Quote is still out of context, you smarmy cretin.
It's not my fault. Catholics are the ones who love the thrill of blasphemy that goes up their spine when they say "Mother of God". They don't care to put context into that phrase when they use it.
>every quote and verse and that disproves catholicucks is le heckin out of contexterino
lmao pathetic religion
it smells like heresy. but i'm also not about to read 1000 pages of this guy's writings to put it into context
However do you go into church and pray to your grandparents to pray to Jesus to save you?
I'm not the same guy, but yes.
So you pray to everybody BUT Christ?
That wasn't the question. Do you go to church and pray to your grandparents to pray to Christ for your sake?
I answered your question moron
Stop being a homosexual
I ask my grandparents to pray for me
you are being a little vague. are your grandparents dead?
Let me get this straight. You go to church and spend your entire service praying to your grandparents?
i ask my grandparents to pray for me
Ask /x/? He's your fricking Pope.
>t. i saw a pic some moron created on mspaint where the pope is wearing a hat that barely resembles an ancient hieroglyph
>your move cathcuck
>childish deflection
And you wonder why we call you devil worshippers.
No, i am not in fact a devil worshipper because of a moronic meme you saw on reddit
Thanks for conceding.
Men lead directly by Christ.
>Men lead directly by Christ.
And yet they were born with original sin.
Yes but the were directly lead by christ so I can be sure that their sins didn't interfere with he's word.
Same goes for the Catholic Church because Christ promised so.
Wrong the catholic church appeared after Christ had left this earth and doesn't even follow the Bible that the apostles had created.
>And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Another anon has already brought up an argument against that being the catholic church.
Cope
>muh keys
The Pope wears a miter, which is modeled after a Babylonian fish god known as Dagon
yep, that's mspaint all right
Ok have a good life ignoring the reality of your satanic religion
There is no existence of alien life mentioned in Genesis.
Christ is the head.
>Christ is the head.
Bro. Stop playing dumb.
Why are you so desperate to be lead by mortal sinners?
>mortal sinners
No. You don't want to be lead by anyone though. You say only Christ but how would you even determine how to correctly interpret his word? Because the holy spirit works through you and not all the other heretics claiming the same? Pure pride. See where it gets you, I guess.
The bible explicitly states that even the most righteous man is a sinner. So why would I look for man to lead me? Especially when I have Christ.
>Especially when I have Christ.
Do you? Or is it just YOUR idea of Christ you have.
That's still better than a fallible mortal.
You are a fallible mortal, you moron. Holier men than you have erred and you err all the more. Prideful fool.
Correct but you being a dumb cathcuck, are to stupid to see how you just destroyed your own argument.
>Christs own word
>holier men than you
No distinction, no nuance in that small mind of yours.
Man is fallen. Our salvation is christ. Not the the preacher standing infront of you. Not your heretic pipe. Not Mary or your saints but Christ.
And who to tell how best to access his mystery? Who to tell how to interpret his teachings? You are spoiled to the point of being rotten.
I don't know but certainly not a fellow sinner.
So no one? Lmao. What do you think the apostles were?
> There is no existence of alien life mentioned in Genesis.
but genesis doesn't say anything about what's happening on other planets?
are demons
>source?
Well, given their reported behavior and how they disappear when you call on Jesus' name, it's pretty obvious, not to mention the Earth is flat and space isn't even real. All things factor in to revealing a clearly demonic manifestation, not extraterrestrial at all.
>No, he's a lib pope, there are a lot of problems at the vatican, but doctrine does not change
So you can pick and choose whether you follow him?
I don't "follow" the pope, I follow Christ. The pope is just the earthly manager of the church. There can and have been heretical popes. it doesn't mean the church is wrong. it just means that the pope is a sinner, which we already knew.
Are you catholic?
Yes but the religion itself carries on dark practices. There's a difference between being a sinner and being a man of Satan.
>dark practices
the practices are based on the ancient israeli religion. i'm not sure what you're referring to unless it's
>muh praying to Mary
Tell me then, why does the Pope wear the head of the Babylonian god Dagon as his hat?
Lots of protestants don't deny the real presence. I think mormon's, jehova's witnesses, some anglicans, others may. but that's the protestant legacy for you.
>I didn't say it wasn't true in every language, I said that some languages have less precision and so meaning can be more difficult to convey
>this is an issue for translating any foreign language work
Yeah and this means that we need a Pope? What's your point here? The Holy Spirit is available to all and that's just the fact.
constantly shifting goal posts
my argument was that it's foolish for you to apply your own personal scriptural exegesis without doing scholarly research, and my supporting fact i gave was language differences
now you're changing to something about the pope
Yeah and my argument is that the Bible is made available for everyone to understand through the Holy Spirit because God is a personal God and only Catholics feel the need to gatekeep this.
this logic would mean that no Christians, ever, in 2000 years disagreed about scripture meaning.
Catholics say this...
the catholic church would just say those readings are wrong and heretical. It was a pretty good system for a while.
People disagree because we're in a fallen state
that's why this
is not a good point. The Catholic Church is made up of sinners like any church. That's why we should praise God that the Bible can point us into the right direction, which is away from the false Catholic Church.
Yes, but Christ gave his promise that hell shall not prevail against it.
Christ said Hell will not prevail against the church, which is the body of Christ. Catholics wrongly interpret this to mean their thing.
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Yes and Protestants and Orthodox take this to mean that Christ was founding His church on Peter's faith, not on the literal man himself
don't drag orthodox in with your nonsense
They reject Catholicism too, bozo
clearly we messed up somewhere. was it the first 1500 years of the church? that seems unlikely, but either way, something went horribly wrong.
You seem to be under the fallacious assumption that catholic doctrine was the same in the sixteenth century as it was in the first century. It is not so. Catholicism gradually accreted many traditions and doctrines over the centuries, so when you talk about catholicism in the sixteenth century, it overlaps with - but is not the same as - catholicism in the first several centuries.
to be clear, i think you're right. but people seem to be opposed to the notion of a pope. which is one of those things we've had from very early on
>the notion of a pope
Again, "the notion of a pope" today is a complex subject that includes many points that are not ancient.
you have to be more specific about what you mean
These are not ancient:
1. That the pope is infallible
2. That the office of pope is an authority above all other bishops
t h e
p o p e
i s
n o t
i n f a l l i b l e
u n l e s s
s p e a k i n g
e x
c a t h e d r a
>He's not infallible until he decides he's infallible
Sigh.
okay. will look into the historicity of these concepts, but I don't find them problematic. it's getting late.
have a hecking good nighterino everyone :^)
Explain all the morbillions of off-shoots then, lol.
People are flawed and messy.
Exactly. That's why there's the Catholic Church the gates of hell shall not prevail against.
i'm not the same guy, but we had a buddy in this very thread, struggling with the concept of the logos.
No, you cannot. You're guided by your own subjective interpretations instead of the authority that gave you the Bible in the first place.
You do understand how moronic you're being, right? The supposed problem you think you've pointed out about sola scriptura applies equally to sola ecclesia. Because you can't understand what your infallible pope has declared without making a subjective interpretation of what he said.
a bloo abbloogoo vlah blah
FRICK OFF SPOOK
Kek get fricked
I didn't lie, dipshit. You can go through all the quotes I give you and it won't make a difference to you.
Yes, your authority/interpretation is worth less than dog shit. I don't know why prots attach themselves so much to the one thing they can't justify in the first place.
How is giving a false quote to prove a point it doesn't support not lying?
You lied.
Lying needs intention, dumb c**t. Again, you're a dishonest frick that will conveniently ignore any evidence that contradicts you.
Oh, so it's not your fault? You have no responsibility for vetting the arguments you swipe from other people and use for yourself to deceive other people?
On second thought, why would you believe those liars in the first place? Doesn't it worry you a bit that you believed something that was false, because you didn't check it first?
>Yes, your authority/interpretation is worth less than dog shit. I don't know why prots attach themselves so much to the one thing they can't justify in the first place.
I could say the same thing to you. You attach yourself to the Catholic church whose teachings you can't justify. In fact, those teachings are directly contradicted by the Bible they (pretend to) believe in.
>You're guided by your own subjective interpretations instead of the authority that gave you the Bible in the first place
No, I'm guided by the Holy Spirit, who wrote the Word in the first place
it's really annoying when prots call the bible
>The Word™
because you get that from John 1
>In the beginning was the Word
translated from logos, referring to Christ, not a book
You know the literal translation of "logos" is "word", right? Meaning, the actual word "word". As in, the Septuagint uses the word "logos" to refer to the word of God in the Old Testament, i.e., the scriptures.
>In the beginning were the scriptures
>And the scriptures were with God
>And the scriptures were God
Oh now I see
Stop pretending to be moronic. "Word" means "word". Its primary referent is the verbal utterance of God. John uses it to refer to Jesus to make a theological point about Jesus being God's pronouncement.
Okay? That's not what you said before. That's what I said. did you forget which argument you're making?
Ok buddy moron. Even if you can't admit you were wrong, I'm happy you aren't going to make that mistake again.
Protestants really believe this
nice argument dummy
Who decided which books are part of the bible? An organization, a church, with their debates, discussions and needs. There cant be sola scriptura because its a compilation decided by committee.
>Who decided which books are part of the bible?
The hand of God
You know what else predates us? Devil worship and idol worship.
>Holy queen
Thats kinda too fricking much. Ave Maria is much more subtle.
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and in the hour of our death. Amen.
Notice how the prayer asks Mary to pray for us, it directly implies that she cannot give any absolution or passage to heaven. Why does a friend praying for us send protestants in such autism infused seething?
Because Jesus said "the only path to the Father is through me." And Catholics disrespect Him by praying to a woman instead. It's an insult and a blasphemy.
>this one verse in the Bible means this one thing I ascribe to it even if it's not what everyone else before me believed!
>I appeal to history no matter how much I'm proven wrong!!!
You just got btfo and you know it. You don't have any authority to make any interpretation of the Bible.
False, it is the Holy Spirit that reveals to us the meaning, which we receive by accepting salvation through Jesus
Yes I know your position. You're inventing random shit like I can. I have a burning feeling in my heart that the holy spirit dwells within me and it tells me everyone before me is wrong about this verse. You realise how stupid that sounds?
It doesn't sound stupid. Once again you're blinded by your own appeal to history. Not God's fault you refuse correction.
Doesn't matter what you believe. The Holy spirit is telling me you're wrong. Now what? Such a low IQ position to take.
>The Holy spirit is telling me you're wrong. Now what?
Now you're bearing false witness. Repent.
And the only path is through him. We just ask Mary to pray with us so Jesus opens the path.
>We just ask Mary to pray with us so Jesus opens the path.
Which is completely unnecessary and heretical
>Why does a friend praying for us send protestants in such autism infused seething?
I don't go into church to "ask friends to pray for me" I go into church to pray.
If you are in the hospital is not weird or uncommon to ask for someone to pray for you even if you could do it alone
And? Friends praying for you is only a nice gesture. It falls upon you to make your amends with christ. Now amount of "friends praying for you" will bring you salvation.
>I go into church to pray.
you don't go to church to pray, you go to listen to shitty bands sing the same chorus 3000 times
um excuse you sweaty, he goes to church to get financial advise from his self-help guru
We dont have bands. We personally sing the hymns but nice try cathcuck.
i'll see you there this wednesday night xister!
You know us protestants aren't one giant organization with one leader right, cathcuck?
kek yeah i know, Christ really meant for his Church to have 40000 different sects who believe in varying degrees of nonsense
How many sects are there in the Catholic Church?
hint: it's more than one
Catholic literally means universal
there's no "sects" in the catholic church.
No he actually meant for it to be one gigantic organization led by old men, in one small city, all dressed in gold and living in luxury.
You gave a false statistic, one that, applied consistently, says that there are hundreds of Catholic denominations. Oops.
From our earliest years nothing has ever been closer to Our heart than devotion-filial, profound, and wholehearted-to the most blessed Virgin Mary. Always have We endeavored to do everything that would redound to the greater glory of the Blessed Virgin, promote her honor, and encourage devotion to her. Accordingly, from the very beginning of Our supreme pontificate We have most fervently directed Our energies and Our thoughts to this matter of such great importance.
Great indeed is Our trust in Mary. The resplendent glory of her merits, far exceeding all the choirs of angels, elevates her to the very steps of the throne of God.[1] Her foot has crushed the head of Satan. Set up between Christ and His Church,[2] Mary, ever lovable and full of grace, always has delivered the Christian people from their greatest calamities and from the snares and assaults of all their enemies, ever rescuing them from ruin.
For, God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will, that we obtain everything through Mary.[3]
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9ubipr2.htm
>Why does a friend praying for us send protestants in such autism infused seething?
They have no problem asking for a living friend praying for them
>brother, I need your prayers to keep these demons off of me!
>They have no problem asking for a living friend praying for them
It's a nice gesture. We don't fill our church service with us asking friends to pray for us.
Amen
I left the catholic church.
Pretty ebin. Saving money on tax, yo
>christcucks arguing who the real christcucks are again
this shit is hilarious.
We're all Christcucks - but some are bigger cucks than others
Are the papists in this thread aware that, even if the official catholic position wasn't heretic, millions of catholics around the world DO pray to saints and Mary expecting help directly from them? Somehow, this has never been an urgent issue for the church.
I hate Mexicans.
Why do mediterraneans have Oedipal complex?
We have good Catholic mothers instead of protestant anglo prostitutes
>nooo you cant acknowledge other biblical figures!
>only jesus matters!!
t. smoothbrain protty
Who are you quoting? Nobody says you can't acknowledge other biblical figures. The fact that you can't even accurately describe what you catholics do shows me that you're ashamed to admit it out loud.
What a minute you mean all I have to do to send some boring straight edge virgin protestant into a seethe is to say the hail mary?
Yeah. They are children, really. Spoiled children.
>admitting catholics are alcoholic degenerates
lol
Yes, really. Protgays are deranged like that
why are catholics so attached to their pagan rituals
Because the rituals are based.
t. former alter boy that got to drink wine when I was 10 years.
>t. former alter boy
Me too. Good times.
When protestants say stuff like this, it really does just come across as them saying "here's the parts of Christianity that make me uncomfortable". Comparing the beliefs of early christians to paganism should be alarming to you. why are you so willing to compare the historical church to pagans?
its alarming that you are so devoted to these pagan rituals
>pagan rituals
You and your lies are the bane of Western civilization.
Kek. Things really went great after that.
>catholicism is right because it has been fact checked by its own authority figures for centuries
santa maria llena eres de gracia
bendita tu eres entre las mujeres y bendito sea el fruto de tu vientre
>be prot
>le holy spirt is heckin burnin within me
>im finna speakin in TONGGGUUUES
ADHADAHHSDA BASADASD LASDPSADKIAS KLASFJGKHFAS DJKSADS SAJKFJASKSAD
I'm gonna...
I'm gonna...
TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG
Not one sect so cry about it cathcuck. Their are sects of prots that have women preachers and I condemn them can you do the same with your pope?
condemn the pope for being based? why would I do that?
Didn't your pope recently say that homosexuality was okay?
Absolutely not. Typical prottie lie.
American slander. Guess what kind of Christianism reigns in America?
He literally said he would baptize aliens lmao
and? the church's mission is to spread the message of Christ to every galaxy
And aliens are demons, bozo. I love how Catholics will give up all their senses even when clearly questionable things happen right in front of them. The Pope could wear the hat of a Babylonian fish god and you'd all just blankly accept it. Oh wait, that's already happening.
And carry a staff entwined with two serpents
or drink 666 monster energy drinks
I'm not religious bro. I'm just making fun of you. Protestants are kino lolcows.
Protestantism has no functioning hierarchy and cut itself off from tradition. That's all you need to know to understand how fundamentally broken it is.
Protestantism was just an excuse to fight the power of the church. While I can understand how greedy nobles would want that, the fact that commoners fell for it is absolutely hilarious.
Commoners are literally plebs and plebs need to be ruled over. Sad truth.
If the church hadn't been so corrupt, then we would have prevented a lot of nonsense.
>not changing something from within, instead tearing it in half
Protties are lost
They are accusers and rebels, just like a certain someone.
Protestants literally did try to change the church from within. That's why it was called the "reformation".
Catholics should feel guilty all the time, including blaming themselves for the reformation.
Christian hierarchy:
>Colossians 2:19 holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
The functioning hierarchy is as follows:
God>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Man
And that's all I need.
You are like a baby, no conception of reality. Sad.
>You don't place your fellow man on a pedestal that means you're bad
Cry about it, cathcuck, actually maybe crying to your pope will help.
>5'1 guy with 70IQ and breathing problems has the same capabilities as 6'3 guy with 145+IQ in perfect health
In our lords eyes were all the same. You'd know if you read the Bible.
Before him, yes. We all have to adhere to his laws. Among each other we're not equal though. We all come differently equipped and there is absolutely no way you could deny that.
Yes amongst us were not equal but were speaking about his church here.
Still needs a functional hierarchy. As you yourself need a head, so does the Church.
looks like the cathlicucks have been worked up into a seethe
Hello Lord, I present to you your latest legion of faithful followers: Incel groypers
>Hello Lord, I present to you your latest legion of faithful followers
A little presumptuous, no?
O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the goods which God grants to us miserable sinners, and for this reason he has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinnerswho have recourse to thee. Come then, to my help, dearest Mother, for I recommend myself to thee. In thy hands I place my eternal salvation and to thee do I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it isenough for me. For, if thou protect me, dear Mother, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou are more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my Judge himself, because by one prayer from thee he will be appeased. But one thing I fear, that in the hour of temptation I may neglect to call on thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, then, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace always to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help.
Referring to Peter in this context was referring to his faith, not him as a church leader. But it's just so ironic because the gates of Hell have no doubt prevailed over the Catholic Church. If you followed God instead of the church you could see that. They are the most materialistic and opulent religion known to man. Jesus was a servant of all, and the Pope sits on a golden throne with gilded robes, carrying a scepter of serpents and wearing a Babylonian fish god hat, all the while the Vatican sits on catacombs of bones. St. Peter's Basilica (meaning Peter's basilisk) is shaped like the head of a serpent. The signs are everywhere that this is a religion of this world, and not of God.
jew
Prots have no theological basis for any of their "beliefs" and therefore their entire religion is superstition
/thread
>Catholic thinks the Bible doesn't count as a theological basis for beliefs
aw sweet, a schizo thread
may the Lord grant us a restful night and a peaceful death.
Amen.
Actually may the Lord grant us a restful night and a peaceful death.
Amen.
God is uncreated, by the way, He doesn't have a mother. Just wanna point that out.