How do you feel about legacy heroes? Has reading a comic about a newer hero using the mantle ever made you go back and read the previous heroes comics? Have you ever been reading a comic when a mantle pass happens, and how did you feel about it at the time?
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I generally hate the modern ones because it isn’t about creating a new character for the sake of creative freedom, so much as checking a diversity check box. They just come off so lazy and cynical.
The problem with so many legacy heroes is that there's almost never a gap between the previous and the new one so it's all the more obvious when they're just trying to give the classic the boot for the new affirmative action hire. So it feels less like stepping up to the play to fill a void the world needs and more like exactly what it obviously is. And because it is what it obviously is the character doesn't actually have a story to tell as a result nor do they have any respect for the legacy their filling in for because it becomes a race to one up them.
I like legacy characters when they have their own thing going on. You'd think people would be more against Jaime since Ted was killed off for him to take his place. But it worked out and now Ted's back. Same thing happened with Kyle. Just had to kill off all the Green Lanterns and guardians to make that happen. Nowadays it happens more often and rarely sticks. But that's the case for a lot of legacy heroes. Comics love chewing them up and spitting them out. Doubly so for teen legacy characters. The 2000s loved killing teen heroes off.
Comparing Jaime and Kyle is insane and you have no idea what you're talking about. Fans were accepting of Jaime when he was introduced. HEAT was sending death threats to the editors after they fricked over Hal.
Because no one gives a shit about blue beetle so it's easier to replace him
This brand of sneering contempt is the worst part of legacy discussions.
Who cares what a group did at the time? Kyle was labeled the chosen one after Hal went crazy and killed everyone. That happened so Kyle would be the special one and have no competition. Denying it is insane and you're using other people to ignore what Marz did.
The point is that it didn't work and didn't stick for Kyle. It's a bad comparison.
The comparison is that the predecessor was killed off to make way for the new guy. That’s it. Kyle being a failure of a character is his own problem. This thread is about legacy characters so of course the focus is on the old and “new” hero.
You're looking at it in hindsight. We can look back now years later and write it off as failure and Hal just coming back anyways. But at the time that wasn't the case. And even if you want to roll your eyes and say "WELL LOL COMICS he's comic back anyways" it doesn't change the fact that we had to put up with that for however long it lasted. People have become too dismissive of crap in comics simply because they gained a reputation as having no permanence but that's not really a good thing. We shouldn't be getting crap anyways and we shouldn't have to wait for things to get fixed.
Because no one really cared about the boring Batman knockoff that was associated with the worst era of the JLA in history. Only really a few that liked the Bpooster friendship angle.
While Hal was what made GL a major mainstream name and had 30+ years of fans.
>Because no one really cared about the boring Batman knockoff that was associated with the worst era of the JLA in history. Only really a few that liked the Bpooster friendship angle.
>While Hal was what made GL a major mainstream name and had 30+ years of fans.
Really because it seemed like the opposite, More people liked JLI than they liked Hal
>associated with the worst era of the JLA in history
Are you a Snydergay or Nu52 fan? Most older DC fans prefer other DC teams(JLI, Legion, GLC , TT, Young Justice) than the JLA kek
I always forget about the one before Ted
Also cool art
I am now thinking that Ted's uniform, with a red belt, and red gloves, would look really nice, instead of simply two tone blue.
i wouldn't mind it for a short while, but ted's suit is pretty much perfect as is.
I like Ted's suit but seeing the red belt in particular from Dan's made me think it would be a nice add; you could add red gloves or boots or something else.
As with Clark, it helps break up all that blue.
I'm not sure how to feel about them, I don't agree with replacing them or killing them off and not doing anything for a decade like with Wally and Kyle but the weird thing is that you can make good stories out of them
It's never happened in a comic that I was reading as it was coming out. I like quite a few because I like the stories I've read with them, while a lot of the ones that people hate loudly on the internet are from books that I don't read in the first place.
What are the best comics about multiple generations of a legacy hero?
There's some really nice Silver Age style stories of Wally and Barry, that make you realize that unlike Dick, Garth and - especially Roy, Wally is really the only one that persistently had a 100% quality relationship with his mentor.
I personally think the World's Finest stories with Dick and Bruce from the Silver Ages, when they wrote Batman and Superman team ups, were a bit better than the stories that were in Detective and Batman solo books, but that may be more me.
I've never read much of Morrison Batman and Robin that features Dick and Damian, but allegedly that also does a good job of this.
The closest to MULTIPLE generations is again back to the Flash when Max and Jay were around with Bart and Wally around, particularly when Cereal Lord brought Barry back from the dead - but there really weren't aren't stories were the legacy aspect was a key situation.
I've never read Infinity, Inc. I also don't read Marble so someone else will need to red pill you on that stuff, or anything else.
He's probably the only one that had anything to do with their predecessor at all outside of the very rare occasional crossover issue.
Hal and Alan only met during JSA/JLA teamups. Kyle rarely had anything to do with Hal, he hung around Guy much more often.
Ray and Al also only really met during team crossovers.
Was Wally the only time a sidekick got to step up and become the hero?
Outside of that 1.5 year period Dick got to be Batman.
Donna also was Wonderwoman for like a short time.
But if we go for sidekick to Hero, I remember some Golden Age sidekick became the main Hero in Johns JSA
I heard good things from James Robinson's Starman.
It kind of sucks.
Blue Beetle is a weird one because they totally reinvent the whole character with each new one. Ted and Jamie never really needed to be called Blue Beetle. They could have been named anything else and it would work.
Everyone else usually just gets a costume upgrade, or switches from magic to science as a power origin. But the powers are the same,
Wish DC would try that with Hawkman. Each one is still at it's core the exact same guy with the exact same look. Shirtless guy with a bird mask and a mace in a Nth metal belt.
I want to see someone actually try a different take on him. And not just tweaking the origin a bit but try something totally new yet still called Hawkman just to see what else can be done.
Hell, even Garrett is not the original. The original was a cop named Garret who was a Green Hornet knockoff then a standard superhero who was powered by some kind of formula
>Blue Beetle is a weird one because they totally reinvent the whole character with each new one.
that's what makes it work
used to be Wally was THE best case for a legacy character... the Barry came back. Legacy only works if they have the actual balls to move forward
The best thing Barry ever did was die.
I don't mind the concept of legacy heroes, but i cannot STAND when both the original and the new guy are active at the same time, using the same codename. You can't be a true legacy hero when your predecessor's story isn't over yet, his legacy is still being built. It goes against the whole idea.
The entire reason they fail is because of this. You immediately piss off a large swath of the characters fans just to replace them. Then the legacy character fails even worse and the original is brought back to tell them they’re even better than the OG ever was and now they have to co-exist and nobody is happy.
Face it, tiger, it makes no sense to ever have a legacy take up another person’s persona like a mantle. It never made sense in the silver age, they just didn’t care and people didn’t have 60 years of connection to characters that had failed. It was always a purely crass, cynical business decision.
No.
Wally was great, and better than Barry ever was.
Didio ruined it because he couldn't handle it. And then he couldn't handle that his best boy wasn't the best, so he went on a decade of erasures, absurd power boosts and character assassinations.
And Wally is still the Flash.
Wally alone, and the love and reception of him, are proof that you're wrong. It doesn't matter if you don't like him, no one cares about a rando's opinion.
Legacy can work. The end.
>And Wally is still the Flash.
And he's STILL the fastest man alive. The fastest dad alive, even. Barrygays have to cope with their "muh Barry is actually the source of the Speed Force so he's still the best :(" retcon.
Wally is also faster than the Speedforce, so...
wtf. Barrybros..?
You sound incredibly autistic.
And yet he's less autistic than
I love that cover
I like the three major Ghost Riders.
Name a few of them?
Does Cinemaphile even have legacy?
I like em
Me too.
I don't care for them. I prefer stories that end.
but legacy heroes are how capeshit characters stories can end.
The only legacy hero that had a satisfying ending is Starman
I'm heavily filtered by this comic. The only interesting thing is the actual city. Everything else about it is a chore.
I'm like 30 issues in currently, and I'm enjoying it quite a bit. I really like how far in advance things are being set up.
I'm about 20 issues in and I haven't enjoyed almost anything. Jack is a c**t.
Totally agree
Stargirl weirdly doesn't come off as outright legacy so much as legacy adjacent. She's more inspired by her predecessors rather than outright taking their identity.
It's the proper way to hand the torch.
Most JSA/GA heroes are dead and replaced to be honest, like I'm the few people that read Zarara stories(because there were on Action Comics).
Imagine if we have legacy?
they are fine conceptually but I only like them under particular circumstances. They have to have a bond which is why they carry on the legacy in the first place, the mentor has to respectfully be out of the way, and there should be personalized twists in how they hero
>How do you feel about legacy heroes?
Too many of them