Legally speaking he isn't, my uncles a judge and said that the scariest thing about these movies. You couldn't convict jiggy
Legally speaking he isn't, my uncles a judge and said that the scariest thing about these movies.
Legally speaking he isn't, my uncles a judge and said that the scariest thing about these movies. You couldn't convict jiggy
Tobin Bell was old when the first Saw came out. He's going to look a million fricking years old in this sequel/prequel.
He's been looking 80 for the last 20 years, its fine
Just realized that Tobin Bell had a role in The Sopranos, where the Saw movies cannonically exist
Huh, what part?
Jigsaw truly cares about helping people living the best life
I enjoy MC content.
Oh hey look the schizo left his thread after he got made fun of for samegayging kek
Not afraid of Jigsaw, then?
>*walks on stage with golden bear trap on teeth* YO DIS MC JIGGY.
kek the MC content spammer is gonna be known as a Black person now
>miss the chance to coin MC JigC
I don’t get it
he’s a spammer who schizoposts about the letters “MC” and makes threads about it samegayging himself when he gets ignored
I still don’t get it
I think it's like ACK on Cinemaphile and how the guy complaining about ACK is very obviously ACK and usually you're just supposed to ignore him until he deletes his own posts
>you are handcuffed to a toilet in a small room
>you are guilty of terminal shitposting
>your phone is in your hand and your hands are trapped inside a small box filled with razor blades and broken glass
>at the bottom of the very stinky toilet is a key to the cuffs, if you can remove the key with your mouth you will be able to free yourself
>if you can post this dumbshit meme without looking at your phone it will ping our local server and electronically unlock the box. however if any grammatical errors are present the box wil tighten and lacerate your hands
>wat do
and half the keys are sticky with cum resuulting in missed or doubled keyypresses and the other half are broken so youuuuuu have to google alt codes in order to type them. Good luuuck.
Love these threads ngl
Me too, first time I’ve felt like I’m posting on classic Cinemaphile in years
They really are and the best part is there are always clueless newbie morons like these
, that expose themselves
Yeah Saw threads in general have been pretty comfy. Been rewatching the series lately and forgot how fun they are
These kinds of threads are always the best. Bane posting, can't convict jigsaw, jesus christ really raimi?, *insert stupid line* what did he mean by this? well done slytherin well done slytherin however
It's all good fun
I love tax threads as well
>What about second mortgage?
I just listed some off the top of my head but there are a bunch more. LOTR tax threads and the pipe smoking "nothing more cucked than having a daughter" are hilarious fun.
I wish Frankposting was still a thing but I see why it isn’t
Forgetting somebody?
I just love the greenest scenarios they seem like shitposts but with how dumb the franchise is you can see Jigsaw doing them.
Go back.
Kidnapping. Simple as
They could’ve left at anytime, it’s only legally kidnapping if you keep them captive. That’s the genius of it and why it’s so scary, it could happen for real and there’d be no way to stop him.
Excellent digits brother.
Black person, they quite literally could not leave. That's the defintion of what a trap is. Also they didn't enter the trap consensually, he kidnapped them. Are you moronic?
you sound like the moron to me, my cousin is an attorney and he said the scariest thing is that there’s no way to convict him. he’ll walk no matter what
Ok, well you and your cousin are moronic
did you know taking things too literally is a sign of autism lol
Are you saying you're autistic? Is that why you're moronic?
my cousin just called and said he’s gonna sue you, do you believe that too lmfao
First Saw thread?
He literally kills cops. They could easily convict him of murder. Your "cousin" should be disbarred.
that's quite an accusation. your proof?
The detective being baited into a fricking illegal shotgun trap in the first movie and the fact there was an active manhunt for the fricker that you morons love to forget about.
wouldn't hold up in court
Felony fleeing, illegal firearms possession, illegal trap construction, illegal modification of a firearm, and first degree murder of an officer of the state. All provable just from detective fat fricks body and location and the fricking devices being left there.
At least try and refrain from swearing like a middle schooler. We’re trying to have a discussion here.
Again, when did he kill a cop? You still haven't answered this
>Felony fleeing
Until you've proven he guilty, he hasn't committed a felony, legally speaking.
>illegal firearms possession
How do you know he didn't legally purchase it?
>illegal trap construction
Storing weapons in a way you don't like isn't a crime.
>illegal modification of a firearm
2nd. amendment.
>first degree murder of an officer of the state
Who pulled the trigger? If anything, the officer should be charged with stealing a Jigsaws weapon for his suicide.
By the way, this is just what i could come up with on the spot. It's nothing compared to what a real legal team could come up with.
Just to be clear, i'm not necessarily defending his actions as *moral,* but *legally speaking,* you have no idea how hard mounting an actual case would be.
>illegal trap construction
LMAO making shit up
>LMAO making shit up
LMFAO. NO
Even if the trap itself is illegal, it would not have been found if not for the illegal break-and-enter on the police officers part. Evidence collected illegally is not admissible in court.
So based
So no proof at all
>He literally kills cops
When?
During the first movie, two cops are raiding his lair which is filled with blueprints, engineering supplies, and... you know what frick it, here's the clip.
Illegal search, justified self-defense. It's called castle doctrine, look it up.
>What is self defense
>What is castle doctrine
Babby's first legal debate? Of course you could argue that Jigsaw setting the traps in his home was illegal, but that would not hold either since they wouldn't have been discovered by police if not for an illegal search without a warrant. These officers broke in to an innocent civilian's home and then proceeded to threaten and point weapons at the civilian. This would have been thrown out instantly in the real world but this is just a stupid movie so it doesn't matter that much
They killed themselves
Wrong.
Nope. He has traps in his home for robbers. The cops barged in without a warrant. If a cop barges in into your home, trips, and snaps his neck, you didn't commit murder.
Nice try but the Jiggster continues to walk free
It's not a trap, it's a game.
Anon…
It is LITERALLY their choice that they can leave. Jigsaw saws it multiple times in every movie. It’s completely up to them, his hands are clean
> it’s only legally kidnapping if you keep them captive
.........what?
No it's not. Kidnapping is the same as abduction, but using force
It does not require "captivity later" to be kidnapping, nor abduction, for that matter
If an ambulance move a knocked out bloke to the hospital, is it kidnapping?
No and neither is kidnapping if you are knocked up and the hospital keep you in a bed for days while you are unconcious, because that's an emergency case
Same as if a plane is malfunctioning mid air and you don't want to land on Australia but the captain says he's landing there anyway
Ah, so by this logic, jigsaw does not do anything illegal by "abducting" his "victims", as his stated purpose is teaching them the value of appreciating life, aka saving them from a far worse fate.
Wow have you dilated your anal hole today?
Dumbass he literally gives them a way out and then explains in detail how to leave. I don't think you understand how the law works, all injuries were self-inflicted
>kidnapping
All the people he transported from one location to another were adults
Kidnapping at very least. Your uncles a hack.
one thing i don't get about the first film is how did gordon and adam not notice there was no "dead body smell" with jigsaw laying in the middle of the room? especially gordon who is a doctor, should have noticed he didn't smell anything coming from a supposed corpse
that bathroom probably smelled like dogshit
I like to think Jigsaw covered himself in shit and guts to replicate the smell
JIGGY JIGGY JIGGY
CAN'T YOU SEE
SOMETIMES YOUR TRAPS
JUST MURDERIZE ME
we're going to have this shit every day until this movie ultimately flops at the box office?
>ultimately flops at the box office?
every single entry gained 10x the budget. keep seething
This one is literally tracking to have the lowest box office for an R rated film since 2020.
he looks like he emits a foul and unpleasant odor
>OP's uncle never heard of conspiracy charges
lel
my uncle works at nintendo and he gave me a free prototype switch 2
Is the Saw Wii game on it?
ay yo b***h mr white
Rather than discussing the legality, it may be more prudent to focus on the morality.
Saw posting was fun for like 2 weeks before you guys turned it into this.
>whiny homosexual can’t deal with the facts and logic of john kramer
Poor guy
YOU DONT UNDERSTAND JIGGY WOULDNT BE CONVICTED SEE IM A COP RIGHT
I was genuinely a police offer for 7 years and no matter how mad you get we still wouldn’t be able to lock him away. Believe me, my buddies on the force were just as pissed.
t. Detective Daniels
How did you find out my name? I’m reporting this.
>reee pls stop blowing me out with legal fact!
Jigsaw did nothing wrong.
If you put someone in harms way, you are legally responsible if harm befalls them. Especially so, if your action is felonious. Kidnapping is a felony, Jigsaw would be convicted without much of a trial.
This is why I don't and will never pull the lever.
Pull the lever halfway mid switch so it takes everyone out.
Not true.
>t. armchair lawyer
I have been an attorney for eleven years and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
filtered
these threads are so hilarious to me as a Law expert, People in these Saw threads have no clue how the police, the Law and the Courts work.
just the sheer amount of People who think John Kramer would be convicted is hilarious.
>no probable cause
>insufficient evidence
>illegaly obtained evidence
>lost evidence
>unavailable witnesses
>no willingness to cooperate
>wrongful arrest
these are literally all the things that lead to a case being dismissed and they all apply to John Kramer and the Jigsaw case.
It would be a nightmare for the DA to work through this and the whole trial would take years, years the John Kramer doesnt have and with his old age and his brain tumors it would be a cake walk to get all charges dropped.
>Legally speaking he isn't
if he is nonexistant I don't think any court would've convicted him. Anti-Jiggy-bros??? How should we respond?
jigsaw is a fictional character, idiots. therefore it is impossible for him to be arrested
I'm a law professor and this is known as the Jigsaw Puzzle in legal circles
>next Saw Movie is John Kramer finally getting arrested by the Police and a SWAT team
>they question him at the police station but he asks for a lawyer and remains silent
>the detectives are taking turns slamming him with all the previous saw movie victims but he doesnt fold
>they still drag him to court
>Kramer is all smug the entire time
>it is revealed that there are multiple people currently in traps
>John Kramer is like: "didnt you claim that I did it? I'm right here I couldnt have done anything"
>turns out getting arrested was part of his plan and the entire court room turns into a trap for all the cops, lawyers and judges who now play against each other
>in the end everyone dies but Kramer walks
My dad was an FBI Criminal Profiler for thirty years. Helped crack the Buffalo Bill case. He said guys like Jigsaw were easy: maybe you can't get them on murder or kidnapping, but you can always get to them through the IRS. Usually these guys get sloppy and don't worry too much about filing their returns on time or making their quarterly payments. I hope Jigsaw made sure all of his charitable contributions were to 501(c)3's...
The real nightmare is diplomats. You can't get past their diplomatic immunity with the IRS because they don't pay taxes either.
>The real nightmare is diplomats.
This right here. Back when I was a cop in DC there was this Columbian envoy, we caught him covered in his victim's blood and drinking a cup of coffee. He was back on the street so fast it was still warm.
The coffee or the victim's blood or the body of the victim?
Also, the only way you could even get Jigsaw is MAYBE with the breaching of zoning laws. If he operated his heavy machinery in a residential area you might be able to get him to court. He may have to pay a fine and move the machinery from the property.
More than that? Good luck.
Again, that's why you go to the IRS. Was he calculating the bonus depreciation on that heavy equipment correctly? Did he mix up the date of purchase with the date put into use? Did he use straight line instead of MACRS? The beauty is that there is NO statute of limitations on tax fraud. If Jigsaw so much as forgot to report wages from his summer job in high school, he's going away for a long time. There's a reason why the IRS is hiring 88,000 enforcement agents and it's for guys like him.
Jigsaw is a senior citizen and probably considered disabled due to his cancer. There is a good chance he doesn't even have to pay property tax.
The IRS would probably find something but the jury would dismiss a tax fraud case against a senior citizen with cancer almost immediately, especially if you try to get him with small technicalities. Sure, you can take him to court but honestly, it won't look good. He walks
CPA weighing in here. I'd bet my license that the IRS could convict Jigsaw if they wanted to. Just in the last year, almost half my clients have been indicted for tax fraud.
A pre-RICO Jigsaw would of been unstoppable. Too bad he committed his crimes after 1970
what’s with the saw spamming today
Kramer getting arrested for murder because he puts people in traps where they have the option to not get killed is as laughable as the government getting arrested for putting people in Vietnam or Iraq. There is literally nothing you can pin on this guy.
How do people still fall for this? I thought Cinemaphile was smarter than this.
>hey dude i had some doctor sedate you and place a key behind your eye then i put a bear trap on your head haha totes legal
provide actual evidence that John Kramer actually did any of these things.
you cant.
you dont have anything, no evidence, no witness.
you dont even have a case here.
Yes it's most likely Kramer had other victims perform those things as part of their choice to live their lives, the whole thing's a pyramid scheme, (which also isn't illegal as long as you don't call it a pyramid scheme.)
It's like you didn't watch any of the movies.
I did and so did many other Law Professionals over the last 20 years.
There is literally nothing you could get John Kramer for.
Every Witness is dead, none of the victims even if they survived could tell you who actually "kidnapped" them and placed them in these traps, you cant connect any of the murder traps directly to Kramer.´
you cant prove he was at any crime scene. you got nothing.
If you watched carefully you also saw that the Police that was investigating the Jigsaw cases was always breaking Laws and Procedure along the way to get a step ahead of him somehow.
You know why they did that?
they knew they would never be able to get him for anything in front of a court so they tried to play dirty but as soon as any of that comes up in court it would be all dismissed.
The doctor is at fault if the patient did not consent to this, not Jigsaw.
They WILL ask about Jigsaw and how you would build a case. I was lucky that I specialised in zoning law and could build a (albeit rather flimsy) case this way. A friend of mine with years of experience in criminal law tried to build one on that. Needless to say, he failed spectacularly and they barred him from retaking the exam for 5 years.
What if I just admit to them that there's nothing that could've been brought against Kramer? Or are they testing to see what you can accomplish with a hopeless case?
Sure, you could do that but they won't be very impressed. It's just so obvious even the shittiest first year law student would give an answer like that.
They really want to see how good of a lawyer you actually are.
Ok thanks for the advice Anon, I'll try to do my best to come up with something
I'd try drag the case out as long as possible, using all kinds of lawyer tricks to make the process last year after year.
I might not get him convicted, but I can keep him off the streets while the cancer finish the job.
No more different than those youtubers that pull of "pranks". It's not his fault people choose to commit suicide
The government can't openly declare forced medical procedures as being harmful or they'd be at risk of dissolving after what happened with the whole COVID thing. Kramer walks.
>Sing walks under a bunch of shotguns and chooses to pull the string that will make them shoot him
>somehow, idiots think that this should be considered a murder and not a suicide
>a falsified warrant is filed for "kidnapping" despite no children being victims of jigsaw, organized in the only place insane enough to try it, Poland
>John Kramer is arrested after a chase through a funhouse of saw traps such as spring operated hands holding large mallets churn through an entire village worth of policemen.
>at his hearing, the judge immediately sentenced kramer to indefinite maximum security hold without bail, bypassing him being "jailed" for his "crimes"
>topher "grace" bell asks "on what grounds, your honor?"
>the prosecutor snidely calls for his "informant"
>silence as everyone watches the door
>a man bursts through, wailing in pain, an automated melon baller visibly attached to his gonads
>the judge cries out "how is this possible?!"
>tobie macguire smirks
>"live or die"
>the walls of the courtroom fall
>"it's your choice"
>the entire city amok of people in various Saw-like™ contraptions
>"Let the game begin"
>"World WarSaw" flashes on screen in bleeding text
The only traps that maybe and heavy emphasis on maybe would get him a conviction, were the Amanda traps. Which of course he had nothing to do with those. I wonder if Jiggy studied law before engineering, that he was able to do what he did without breaking any laws.
I must fix her. I shall fix her.
It's pretty obvious that the Jigsaw case would be a bust, but what kinds of legal consequences would this kid face? He knowingly pulled the lever which killed this man, and the man didn't really have any option to escape. Would this kid be guilty of murder?
William could've chosen not to stand there.
abduction is a crime.
Doesn't fit the legal definition
Former ICJ judge here. Technically, he can be charged with taking people from one location to another one without their explicit will and signature. It is also true that he can be charged with putting people in situations that bear the risk of bodily injury and potentially fatal consequences. However, and this is important in understanding how such people are convicted. Jigsaw's intentions also fall into the equation which means that he a) intends to teach his "victims" a lesson for life and thus make them better persons, b) he gives them explicit instructions how to learn that lesson and c) he acts without malice.
Moreover, on the aspect of kidnapping. Evidence obviously would show that he is too frail to actively kidnap someone, ergo this would be instantly dropped in a serious court.
The chances of him being convicted of murder, let alone kidnapping are extremely low, 0.5% tops.
Anyone who argues differently is a complete and utter moron who should kill themselves immediately.
>Jiggy detractors STILL seething at this simple fact
>old
>white
>heterosexual
>male
I'm sorry jiggybros, but he's guilty af
Oh no it is this moron again.
Jigsaw is guilty of
>Assault (he hits people to knock them out)
>Kidnapping/abduction/unlawful imprisonment
>Reckless endangerment.
I do not know hoe to classify his psycho death traps however they sure are responsible for psychological damages if not physical ones.
>Cop or prosecutor detected.
keep seething, you'll never get jiggy.
>Tobin's son was the dummy on the tricycle for Halloween
>Tobin dressed as Jigsaw and took him trick-or-treating
That must be one of the happiest feelings a man could experience.
Opening scene: jigsaw pulled into an interrogation room by angry cop, a bit of brutality and shouting applied
Main part: jiggy recounts his greatest traps (essentially a series of short movies connected by cutting back to cop room and jiggy saying stuff like "But that was nothing compared to the next one, now that was a real trap."), cooperating with the cops and being quite relaxed.
Final scene: a new cop enters the room and tell them to remove the handcuffs, there's nothing they can charge him with.
As jiggy leaves the room he turns, smiles and says to mc cop: "Be seeing you around officer. Real soon."
SAW is fricking amazing and everyone should watch this series
It's somewhat unrealistic, especially in its legal proceedings
>Mr... Jigsaw, is it? Do you prefer Mr. Jigsaw or Mr. Kramer? Anyways, I'm afraid to tell you that it's awfully suspicious that you can afford all of these elaborate contraptions and medical expenses. Are you declaring all of your taxes? I must also unfortunately inform you that some of these devices may violate building codes. We will need to do an inspection.
BULLSHIT, you can keep the public away from an arrest while the person arrested dies from a heart attack and you get sentence to 5 years in prison for having been there.
>there are plenty of black people that are treated unfairly by the police
>make an overdosing criminal that was resisting arrest your poster child
What did BLM mean by this?
You fool, if they took a legitimate example then there would be no disunity, no chaos and most importantly no allegiance to evil. If they pick an example where the black guy was in the wrong, then it becomes a test of allegiance : do you trust the corrupt people more than you trust reality. And then it becomes a Satanic ritual that people may have partaken unknowingly, it's much harder to back down and defend the truth once you've lied even by mistake or by having been misled.
The US is in serious decline
>why are you filming my scenes first?
he probably sold his CGI likeness and voice already so AI can play jigsaw for the next 100 years.
Who's ready to #GetJiggyWithIt this october, bros??
>All the morons ITT conveniently forgetting he never remembered to put fire extinguishers in the rooms, violating the local fire code.
That's never stated in the films. Keep your fanfiction to yourself pls
He even didn't have enough exits and kept them locked too. What a monster.
So with Jigsaw taking place 10 years after Kramer dies and no games have been played since then, does this mean Gordon doesn’t make games after getting Hoffman or what? They make it seem like the games haven’t been a thing since Kramer died in the 3rd one.
I'm a federal judge and I say Mr. Jigsaw here would walk a free man. The charges simply wouldn't stick. The case would be in shambles before it even began. Just forget about it
I’m told there’s an interview with the director where he earnestly makes this argument. The guy actually believes he created the perfect horror villain because jigsaw isn’t actually guilty of anything. I’m surprised it never gets posted in these threads
I remember watching a youtube video of a Tobin Bell interview and he sounded like Jigsaw when he was casually talking. Then when they asked him to do a Jigsaw impression he didn't sound anything like him. Was he just trolling?
>I’m told
I was too embarrassed to say I saw it on a YouTube short
Chief Judge for the Florida circuit here. I do not remember the film too well but if those officers had a warrant to search Jigsaw's hideout in the first movie, then it was legal for them to arrest Jigsaw due to his construction of the shotgun trap in the hallway. It is illegal to booby-trap your home in case of accidental killings of people performing welfare checks and the like
First movie dialogue:
"Actually, technically speaking, he's... not really a murderer. He never killed anyone. He finds ways for his victims to kill themselves."
Case closed.
What trap would you most likely be able to survive?
almost all of them
How would you survive the Angel wings or wrack
You can just take the key and open the lock
Some of the traps just involve watching another person get mangled. Easy peasy
I’m putting together a puzzle.
Of all the shitposts on this site this moronic one is the one that managed to make me laugh. I should probably have my head examined.
I’m the DA of the Southern District of New York, and no movie has kept me up at night more than this one has. And not because of its horror elements, but because if some criminal watched this series and used it as a roadmap, there is nothing we could do to stop them. They would be free to walk and resume their work. I would probably just resign.
My uncle works for a congressman and he says they've been trying for years to reform the legal system to solve what they call the Jigsaw Problem. It's harder than you think. Apparently the constitution is airtight on this stuff.
What about his very first victim from part 4 flashbacks? He did put him on a chair with blades pressing against his wrist arteries, he said he will die if he doesn't escape. Kidnapping + Attempted murder right there.
He gave the man a clear choice and an out
Lets say the guy couldn't escape. John caused lethal damage to the man, causing him to bleed out. John is a murderer.
He could escape though. You are offering a hypothetical scenario, not what really happened
lol imagine tryna convict the jigsaw killer IRL no evidence, dude wears a pig mask, plays mind games, and pulls off remote traps. Forensics? Nah. Witnesses? Nope. Victims' trauma? Good luck with coherent testimony. And ethical debates? You betcha. 1000 IQ planning, and don't forget the copycats and misinformation. Basically,
good luck, law enforcement!
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