>"Legends was never canon. Lucas was barely involved in it at all and would've reconned it all eventually regardless."
>But the Sequel Trilogy had no involvement from Lucas at all.
>"That was after Disney bought Star Wars. Everything Disney makes us canon."
>But Disney canon has reconned itself more than once.
>"That's because the books and shows are lesser canon".
>So the OT, PT, and Clone Wars were greater canon before the buyout with Legends being lesser canon then?
>"No! Legends was never canon!"
>Can we at least agree Legends is higher quality than the Sequel Trilogy?
>"This has nothing to do with quality! It has to do with canon!"
How is it that almost every conversation about Legends vs Canon online ends up devolving into this idiotic loop? Do people actually think like this or is this just some standard botted reply?
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Filoni retconning literally everything he doesn't have a direct hand in is hilarious. I "can't wait" for him to have Kino Loy or any number of dead characters from Andor show up in the fricking mando movie
could you not simply keep having these arguments with yourself instead of trying to drag other people into them
I'm not the only one having these kinds of arguments. I refuse to be gaslit.
They do in fact think like that.
Seems eerily Orwellian.
>Orwellian
It's way more depressing than that. Orwell was just writing about the kinds of behavior he was already seeing, not inventing an alternate reality. This is how all normies and a huge proportion of non-normies do, unironically, think. A fact is not true because it has some correspondence to reality, a fact is true because the fact checkers say so: and you can tell the fact checkers are telling the truth because the fact checkers say so. It's just a big social game, from school to business and even modern publish-or-perish science, and there is nobody to protect us from ourselves.
At least in fiction there are rarely consequences for this behavior. The canonicity of space wizards doesn't "really" matter, for how much fun it is to talk about. It's the fact that that sort of thinking is also in every single board room of every company and every single political body of every country that your blood runs cold.
Yeah dude, EU fans are free thinkers and everyone else is a hecking Disney stooge!
1) I literally said that the canonicity of space wizards does not actually matter
2) The conversation tied to the OP was not "is the EU good" but "was the EU ever canon". Those are two different conversations. If you'd like to have a different conversation, you are free to. That is not the conversation I contributed to.
3) I hope you are a stooge, because it's nicer to believe you're acting in bad faith for profit rather than of your own will. Now, just because I would like that to be true does not mean it is true (many people fail to grasp this), but it is a nice thought.
What profit is there in shitting on the EU other than for my own pleasure? Why do you morons see shills everywhere?
Either you have severe reading comprehension difficulties, or you are >merely pretending. Either way, have a good day.
I guess it's less Orwellian and more Kojimaian then.
Are you just that desperate for validation that you want to hear someone say that the EU is better than the sequels? Most people just ignore both because they're both shit.
back to your containment general, c**t.
>"Legends was never canon. Lucas was barely involved in it at all and would've reconned it all eventually regardless."
This is true and everything after this is just meaningless gibberish.
This is crazy. An actual Disney shill. A real one. Like, for real. That's nuts.
"Canon" is the original trilogy and all the stuff I like. The sequels are pig slop that not even Disney wants to be associated with.
With the exception of a few very atypical examples, star wars legends were just as fricking stupid as the sequel trilogy.
This is crazy. An actual Disney shill. A real one. Like, for real. That's nuts.
The EU is so much better than any Disney trite. Or even the stuff "done" by Lucas.
>Legends vs Disney
False dichotomy that only morons believe in. It's George vs everyone else. EU manbabies were the biggest Lucas haters around before Disney's reign of terror and they were a contributing factor to the sale.
>The EU is so much better than [...] the stuff "done" by Lucas.
You are the dumbest gorilla moron Black person alive. Lemme guess: Star Wars was "Saved in The Edit" and everything good about the original trilogy was the work of everyone but George?
The Disney had ZERO involvement from George. So don’t pretend that shit is any more valid than the EU.
I really don't understand what your problem is. The only people that care about the Sequels, other than Reylo shippers, are moronic EUnuchs such as yourself who obsess about the Sequels every waking minute of their lives.
Crazy how for you EUnuchs everyone but George Lucas gets a pass for putting in wacky stuff in Star Wars.
Dude, I like the prequels and I like Lucas. I don’t know who the frick you think you’re talking to, but it ain’t me.
When did I ever bash Lucas? If it wasn't for Lucas the EU wouldn't even exist. You're basically making up a guy to be mad at.
>other than Reylo shippers
Thank you for leaving me out of their EU buffoonery. I'm just here for Reylo.
>The Disney
>The
Stupid ESL monkey. You can't tell what I'm talking about.
It’s called a typo, frickwad. I meant to type “The Disney shit”.
>a literal looney tunes rabbit rebel pilot is good
Kys
The OG Marvel comics were initially working off of ANH and that movie only. Writers didn’t have a full understanding of what Star Wars actually was. Things started to change as we got the rest of the trilogy. Things changed significantly more when we got the prequels.
>I can't believe a highly experimental series ranging every possible genre had a few ideas I didn't like. Clearly selling it all to the mouse was the right idea.
How is
a Disney shill?
Yes, some of the stuff in Legends is good, some really good, and some of it is among the best stuff in Star Wars period. But there's just as much that's either dumb, bad, or just doesn't fit
Conversely, while yes a lot of Disney Star Wars was mid at best, they've done some good stuff, it's just that most of it was relegated to books or the shows with only one movie most agree was good
Most of Legends is good. Most of Disney is bad.
you're telling me this
edgy over the top stuff is good?
True. Pic related is kino.
Bah. You're just a stupid disney shill.
>Using the guns as clubs
I imagine Russia arming Abbos would go similarly.
I never said I liked Disney Star Wars, schizo. I said Legends was never canon.
>just as fricking stupid as the sequel trilogy
>actual Disney shill
Are you illiterate?
More and more in fiction I dislike canon because it stifles creativity. Just move the show or franchise forward and keep the stories that are good.
Legends had some shit in it, sure. But for the most part, it ranged from decent to excellent. New Canon has more stinkers than it does winners. Some of the books and the Jedi games are its only saving grace. Everything else is crap.
>it ranged from decent to excellent
Let's post some examples. For me, it's the time Han Solo fought a giant otter.
Why do you people always post this shit? Every time y’all want to discredit the EU, this exact picture gets posted.
Because it's iconic. Pic related, more KINO EUnuch without any of Lucas' crap. Real Star Wars.
You’re obviously unhinged. Get help.
>Why do you people always post this shit? Every time y’all want to discredit the EU, this exact picture gets posted.
check the filename
it's specifically one schizo who resposts it every thread.
would
>woah dude isn't our Star Wars comic so grungy and gritty
>this is Star Wars for adults!
>look dude we got little alien slave girls getting eaten by fat bastards
what the frick is even the context in this?
Legend gobblers will unironically say crystal bleeding is too edgy while legends had child-eating in it
Crystal bleeding is gay and lame but at least it's not edgy child-eating :^)
You get called a midwit a lot, huh?
Either this is just same old bait or just same old comments. Nothing new. Every single thread on here just descends into the same farce.
The books and comics were aimed at older audiences.
It’s supposed to be a shocking moment you idiots. You lot just to call anything that isn’t kid-friendly “edgy”, huh? Let me guess, you like to watch cartoons for children.
Yes.
Sometimes I feel like the Dead Internet Theory is real and all this conversation is with bots. So many people just run basic algorithms and thinking especially when it comes to these interests. Someone hears a piece of information and it becomes an anchored "fact" in their head. It is why people would say "SW was saved in editing" with no elaboration or information when that wasn't the case. I despise the constant revisionism that takes place in these grand narratives.
I liked some of the older stuff. I also know a lot of it was shit. I haven't read much of the newer stuff but most of what I have read has been middling. Some people will always be obsessed with continuity and canon and in general these people aren't worth listening to. A woman I knew cried about the old stuff being made not-canon as if that deleted the old stories from existence.
These conversation about SW though will just be a repeat of what has come before.
You can also just make your canon. Even Lucas encouraged it.
so my canon about my self insert jedi/mando hybrid OC is real?
Star Wars deserves it. People really did bully a kid actor for no reason because he was in a movie that didn't live up to their expectations.
Yeah, now we just bully EU fanboys.
>dissing the kotor comic
ah yes, I love wizened old jedi masters acting like morons
>wizened old jedi masters
they are just senior jedi and proven to be a bunch of morons since day one, schizo.
Much like how people say "SW is saved in editing" some prequel fans say "SW fans bullied Jake Lloyd and Ahmed Best!" Other kids were the big issue for Jake and the media was the big issue for Ahmed Best, in his own words.
Canon is ultimately just the stories you enjoy and what inspires you. Hypercrisis is real.
Okay? That has nothing to do with what I said.
Holy shit most of us weren't even talking when that happened. Yeah what the Internet did to Jake and Ahmed was shitty but you know what? That same Internet was singing the ST's praises when it first launched. And for the record "The People vs George Lucas" wasn't "The Internet" it was some amateur documentary filmmakers with connections.
>These conversation about SW though will just be a repeat of what has come before.
Because EUnuchs argue in bad faith and never warrant proper responses. You have to be either trolling, or actually mentally moronic, to obsess this hard about the sequels or the EU. Nobody else cares.
"Sonic had a rough transition to 3D" is probably my favorite one of those. Motherfricker at least that version of Sonic was actually trying to put out something unique. Actually play a Sonic game instead of basing your opinions on Arin Hanson.
Crazy that you think it's acceptable to:
1. talk about sonic unprompted.
2. talk about sonic in public.
>"Sonic had a rough transition to 3D" is probably my favorite one of those.
This was a common sentiment before anybody knew who Egoraptor was.
>instead of basing your opinions on Arin Hanson.
Can we stop claiming every opinion we disagree with is just people parroting YouTubers? It's possible for multiple people to come to the same conclusion, even if it's the wrong one.
>It's possible for multiple people to come to the same conclusion
Sure. But most of the time when you give people the benefit of the doubt or chat in good faith you'll be disappointed. And people that are online a lot to coalesce around the same shit.
>Sometimes I feel like the Dead Internet Theory is real and all this conversation is with bots.
>People are bots
Honestly lads what is the point anymore.
I think what happened is that the internet went from a bunch of weirdos who each had their own individual experiences and ideas, to a brutally-enforced social orthodoxy based on The Algorithm. People sound like bots because they cannot say anything that goes against the party line, because they don't have access to non-party line thoughts.
I used to think it was a temporary change that would be emblematic of the 2010s and early 2020s, that we would view the bot People the same way we view bell bottoms. But I think we have fundamentally lost something important, and I don't think we can get it back.
Internet communication just changes how people communicate. I say something, you say something, very easy to misinterpret when we can't see each other (not to say that people don't misinterpret those irl, they do.) Shitposting and a variety of other things have always existed irl but on the Internet they are actively rewarded. Every comment section on Youtube or wherever is the same thing. Even if you find a moderated space where good communication is rewarded it is fleeting because one bad mod will destroy it. Hence why forum culture always descended into tyranny. Pick your poison, moderated manchild landspaces or unmoderated manchild landscapes. Being a fan of something now is a solitary pursuit.
Dislike the prequels? RLMgay!
Like the prequels? Nostalgia gay!
Nuance is lost. No one here enjoys fricking anything anymore. Everyone is either too sensitive or too desensitised by it.
Game shops and movie rental stores are where a lot of organic conversations used to form. With bars the interests are too random and online people are quickest to jump to hatred. Too bad they're all either shut down now or stuffed with so many Funko Pops there's almost nothing to browse while you talk.
I still have good conversations at my local comic book store. Ironically the one person that derails conversation there is some autist obsessed with SW. He went off on one about how good the banking clan arc was in TCW when no one asked.
>tfw I just want to shoot the shit with people but there is always autists waiting to frick things up
>some autist obsessed with SW. He went off on one about how good the banking clan arc was in TCW when no one asked.
yikes that's really cringe. I hope you bullied him out of the store.
Why would I bully him? He is harmless. He just derails conversation.
Indeed
Star Wars stopped being good the instant it became exclusively about Jedi and Sith crap.
Yeah, KOTOR killed Star Wars.
It has everything to do with what you said, I'm sorry you lack the self-awareness and insight required to understand.
>It has everything to do with what you said, I'm sorry you lack the self-awareness and insight required to understand.
It doesn't. You're just shitposting and baiting and creating more meta narratives. Hence why the Internet feels dead. More generalised narratives about how whole groups of people. It is tiresome.
Bro, you are so fricking smart. You're totally not a midwit stoner.
You can't address any of my points without falling into the same insults. It is all so tiresome. Every thread falls into the same insults and comments. Call me a pseud all you want but look at what you're doing. This is just basic projection. And it is tiresome.
But it was always about that.
?si=qv0VoatA_Tjqb8gr
In the original novelisation of ANH written under supervision of George, the Emperor was just a figurehead of the military. This was obviously changed.
So much changed with SW over the years during its development.
>in 1977 the Sith existed, as evidenced in this scene that was shot, but cut from Star Wars
>the Sith were also mentioned as being the ancient enemy of the Jedi in earlier drafts of the script for Star Wars
>but they didn't actually exist and were only added in the sequels because, uh... AND also they only existed in the prequels because lucas is a hecking hack!!!!1one
Huh? Make up your mind, please. And the idea that the Emperor was just a figurehead for the military comes from the first draft of Star Wars, which also contained Sith lords 🙂
>Huh? Make up your mind
Anon, I was not the previous anon you were talking to. The point I was making was that SW changed a lot over the years and had plenty of retcons and it wasn't always fully set.
>>but they didn't actually exist and were only added in the sequels because, uh... AND also they only existed in the prequels because lucas is a hecking hack!!!!1one
I never said that? So I don't know why you're strawmanning?
>And the idea that the Emperor was just a figurehead for the military comes from the first draft of Star Wars
The ANH novelisation contained an intro called Journey of the Whills that mentioned the Emperor as a figurehead so the canon first published book and novelisation was that the Emperor was a figurehead which was obviously later changed. All I was commenting on was that it is interesting how SW changed and developed and I don't think everything was as set in stone. That's all.
I accept your concession of defeat.
Oh so you're one of those autists. This thread is just full of bait. My fault for wanting to have a discussion about shit.
>Star Wars went to shit when it focused on the thing that sets it apart from every other sci-fi franchise in existence
I checked out when Jacen Solo became a Sith so idgaf when the israelites mercy-killed the EU.
George Lucas killed the EU when he decided to begin working on The Clone Wars.
>George Lucas killed the EU when he decided to begin working on The Clone Wars.
The writing was already on the wall when The Phantom Menace came out. The 90s EU clearly didn't mesh with the world shown in the Prequels and attempts to integrate them were laughable.
The Dark Horse Republic series was generally good, though it tended to indulge in really stupid edge by the end of its run. I also thought the Marvel Vader series was decent, but I dropped it when it got the part when they tried to weave in Sequel plot threads.
Lucas gave the EU guys pointers in the early 90s since he was gearing up to make the prequels. Phantom Menace was supposed to be released in 97 but was delayed to 99. The Shadows of the Empire multimedia project was created to take its place.
That's not the conversation. EU had levels and G canon was always on top.
What SW Cinemaphilemics do people enjoy? I was partial to Dark Empire, some of the Thrawn trilogy stuff, X-Wing, Tales of the Jedi. I tried some of the newer stuff and I didn't hate it but it just felt rather meh? Same stuff, same beaten path only occasionally it would throw in something from a cartoon or new stuff (like the Crimson Dawn event with Q'ira from Solo).
All shit. Read that Vader and the Ghost Prison one and then don't read anything else because it's all garbage.
Dr.Aphra is pretty good for some good old fashioned pulp sci-fi. I'm still holding out hope for the live action series.
Seethe.
Personally I can't make up my mind with Aphra. Her personality is pretty caustic at times but she regularly gets comeuppance for it so she's not all bad. The "my professor doesn't like me" subplot felt like a tooth extraction every time it got brought up though.
>my professor doesn't like me
yeah, I agree on this. No idea what they were going for with it.
I probably should try Dr Aphra but on paper and from the outside it is a hard sell for me because it really sounds like a load of bad fanfic ideas flung at a wall "oh and she is this and that and this happens and Vader!"
Personally I really liked the Charles Soule Darth Vader run (the one without Dr Aphra) and from Legends Dawn of the Jedi and KOTOR werr really good.
>Legends Dawn of the Jedi
What did you get out of that? I really couldn't stand Dawn of the Jedi.
>Everyone who is force sensitive just gets summoned by big ships and travels to planet.
I hated the world building. The Rakata etc weren't that interesting either. It didn't really explain stuff tbh because the Jedi coming together was one big unexplained thing.
Lucas retconned shit. Everything is built on retcons. But some retcons are good and done for actual reasons and some are bad and push you into holes.
Everything but the Original Trilogy and Chewbacca Christmas Special is non canon and shit
And they are right. The EU was never canon and now everything under Disney is canon.
>b-but muh retcons
Disney is entitled to retcon things, they OWN Star Wars.
>Disney is entitled to retcon things, they OWN Star Wars
More Star Wars fans need to understand this. I have no idea where fanboys got their attitude that it's the fans who own a franchise.
We own their profits, redditor. Stop crying when you shit tanks if you won't respect us.
You can't have everything be canon but also regularly retcon the canon. It goes against the definition of words. And yes. Disney can do whatever it wants but it doesn't change dictionary definitions.
Seems pretty easy for The Bad Batch or Tales Of The Jedi or The Clone Wars to retcon some shitty comic book.
If that’s the case, then none of the books and comics matter. Only what’s on-screen.
>then none of the books and comics matter. Only what’s on-screen.
Is your brain finally working?
I'm 100% sure Star Wars original trilogy had a producer or editor who would force George to control his impulse to frick up shit for no reason at all and this person no longer being around is the reason why this franchise is such a pandemonium
The Empire Strikes Back lost documentary is interesting because for their shooting George was on the phone as a consultant for a bunch of it while they were filming and they outright said this isn't sci fi but fantasy.
No, stupid. Empire and Return were indie movies. George had it in his contract for ANH that he’d own all the rights. FOX let him get away with it because they didn’t believe that Star Wars would be the goliath that it became.
>Only way to be successful is for the israelites to not take you seriously.
Hmmmm.
Could someone give me examples of Disney retconning their own canon? Sounds interesting
The Kanan comic and the Ahsoka book. Bad Batch and TCW S7 retconned those.
Did the Ashoka show contradict the book?
It's always minor stuff like one page of Kanan's comic being outdated, but obsessive morons always fill their pants with shit over it.
It ain’t one page, it’s the whole fricking story.
>The Bad Batch changes the whole story of Kanan's comic because CF 99 shows up for five minutes in Kanan's story
You are mentally moronic, but then again you take Star Wars comics seriously.
>The Bad Batch rewrites Kanan's Order 66 origin, eschewing the bond that he and Billaba shared with their Clone Troopers as well as Grey's sacrifice to save his friend, replacing a tragic story with a tie-in to The Bad Batch's protagonists
>schzio wordbabble
Don't care. They show up for five minutes in Kanan's story. It changes nothing. If you're too stupid to navigate that logic conundrum then you shouldn't be reading comics or watching TV or using the internet to begin with.
Who hurt you, anon? I wasn't even the previous anon you're talking to. I was simply pointing out that the change was bigger than you're making out. Ultimately it doesn't really matter and continuity wise it could be worked around.
It is just ironic that Disney's main justification for creating a new canon was to create a new playing field they could manage but they majorly failed to do so even then; even with a story group and people managing "continuity". (Of course this is just an excuse and it was more about old contracts and rights, hence why Galaxy's Edge was based on the sequels.)
Lighten the frick up, anon.
>psh, *smirks evilishly* heh, disney said that they created the new canon so they wouldn't have to retcon now... now they're retconning stuff themselves! *sheathes katana*
So that was your point all along? Crazy how we went from:
>c-c-can you at least say that the EU is better than the sequels?
to
>lol disney is so stupid they're retconning their own stuff!
Additionally, Disney's canon is simply a continuation of TCW's canon, which was established by George Lucas when he decided to fix the 20 something years of shit that a hundred different writers decided to smear all over Star Wars.
I never said any of those things? You're just conflating people with what ever strawman you want to create.
EUnuchs are already the best strawman one could hope so. And they actually exist.
He literally said Disney created a new canon because:
> it was more about old contracts and rights, hence why Galaxy's Edge was based on the sequels
Disney also stopped paying a bunch of old EU writers and they had to take action to get their dues paid.
You are insane.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/apr/28/disneymustpay-authors-form-task-force-missing-payments-star-wars-alien-buffy
>DisneyMustPay: authors form task force to fight for missing payments
Non-sequitur. TCW killed the EU's canon. This is an immutable fact.
You just randomly changed the topic of conversation every second rather than respond to anything anyone says. You're either a troll or an autist.
That's a pretty funny thing to say when you're the one actually doing that.
Anon, all you do is strawman and call people EUnuchs over and over again. It is the same conversation that happens in every SW thread. You randomly respond and act like everyone is the same person rather than have a conversation like a human being. It is quite pathetic. I really think you need some help.
This thread opened with a validation-starved EU fanboy begging people to at least admit that the EU is better than the sequels. You can't expect any legitimate discussion to come out of that.
Conversations evolve. Why are you getting your panties in a bunch over an OP? You sound obsessive. Seriously, I mean this unironically, you need help. This place isn't doing you any good.
You're kind of a pussy, I wouldn't want to have a legitimate discussion with you.
Says the homosexual crying over EU fanboys over and over again. All you can do is drone on and on about the same shit. No wonder you have no friends.
The projection is off the charts.
>no u
Yep that is all you can say.
Oh yeah. I'm sure troony clone troopers and pansexual Obi Wan were definitely part of George and Filoni's original vision. I love Clone Wars too but let's not pretend Disney has any idea what the frick it's doing.
They put a bunch of sequel shit mentions into the Vader comic precisely because people felt (rightly) that Exegol and shit came out of no where.
>~~*Legends*~~
have a nice day, mousecuck.
Can anyone tell me what was Luke endgoal when he threw the lightsaber and refused to kill anyone? Was the guy just going to awkwardly stare at Palpatine until the guards arrived to arrest him?
>Can anyone tell me what was Luke endgoal when he threw the lightsaber and refused to kill anyone?
Pretty sure Luke thought he was gonna die in that moment and chose to die with his principals intact. In my mind, Luke had a feeling that that the deathstar assault would succeed again so even if he died there the emperor would still be blown up.
He didn’t know about Force Lightning. That and he was betting on his dad saving him.
>He didn’t know about Force Lightning
Yeah but what he knew is that the place was full of armed thugs and he threw his only weapon away and told the Emperor he was not going to kill. So he was cornered, no way to run, no way to fight and a bunch of soldiers would arrive sooner or later.
>Luke : Soon I'll be dead, and you with me.
>The Emperor : [laughing] Perhaps you refer to the imminent attack of your rebel fleet? Yes, I assure you, we are quite safe from your friends here.
>Luke : Your overconfidence is your weakness.
>The Emperor : Your faith in your friends is yours!
He had faith in his friends. He saw the good in his father. He though the Emperor's pride and overconfidence was his weakness.
If you do not like the Star Wars content that is being produced, do not consume it.
I have not watched or read anything Star Wars related since episode 3. Barring perhaps the family guy or robot chicken specials.
I'm not being snippy here or passive aggressive. I'm giving advice that has made me a lot happier. I am not interested in anything new from Star Wars, so I won't watch it. It's made me a lot happier to simply ignore the content that doesn't interest me or I don't like.
>I'm not being snippy here or passive aggressive. I'm giving advice that has made me a lot happier. I am not interested in anything new from Star Wars, so I won't watch it. It's made me a lot happier to simply ignore the content that doesn't interest me or I don't like.
holy shit hahahaha it actually took you some time for you shouldn't watch something you don't like?
>it actually took you some time for you shouldn't watch something you don't like?
Well, considering I said I haven't watched anything star wars related since episode 3, I'd argue that I figured this out about 19 years ago.
I don't for the most part. There's some good stuff every now and then but for the most part it's a walking corpse designed to earn ESG and the same thing keeps happening to other franchises I grew up with. I'm not mad. Just disappointed.
If you're not the original trilogy, Ewoks, or Droids, you're not Star Wars.
People are bots
We look for holes or flaws in statements
It is an easy opening for a remark
No matter the context
Context has never mattered on the internet
Repeat that ad infinitum
legends vs. canon is so 2018
we are in an unified canon era now.
I think what I hate about SW EU (new or old) is that to me it always just slightly misses the point about what I liked in SW. It'll sometimes lean too far in one direction or another. SW to me has a very thin area where it works. It is like a DnD campaign. Rogues, wise old masters etc. Some crime, some Jedi vs Sith, some Rebels vs Empire. Some of the older comics or other stuff got too out there sci fi trops and not really pulpy. I can't really explain it but SW only really works? I never really got into Old Republic type stuff because it always felt like the Galaxy never really changed or developed technology wise over a huge period and I dunno I feel like the concept of the Jedi slowly got cheapened or ruined?
What you're describing it what happens when a franchise or genre starts to cannibalize on itself for inspiration.
Star Wars clearly was inspired by the pulp sci-fi, westerns, and samurai media of its time but now new Star Wars stuff is takes its influence from older Star Wars. It just leads to it feeling generic or cheapened the more things are reused or explained.
>What you're describing it what happens when a franchise or genre starts to cannibalize on itself for inspiration.
Not really, I am talking about something else. Sure, SW is just cannibalising itself (pic related) and has been for ages.
What I am really saying is just that SW has a thin slither in the stories it can tell that works for me personally. When the EU went outside of that slither it got strange fast in a way I didn't like or think worked.
Think about it this way, in Star Trek you could have an episode about a space anomaly, or warring planetary factions, or a Holodeck episode. You could have a time travel episode, a cultural clash episode. If you did some of that stuff in SW it would quickly feel out of place. So when writers went outside of the OT it quickly felt hokey.
I read a bunch of the OG Marvel comics and some of them were very weird, for instances, owing to the fact that those creators hadn't even seen the movie or had proper detailed information. SW almost naturally cannibalises itself because stories outside crime, sith vs jedi, empire vs rebels can feel hokey or weird. I'm rambling.
As much as I hate to bring them up because of how polarizing they are (especially lately) Red Letter Media succinctly said that Star Wars is a setting with the appearance of depth. When you go out of the original setting, Star Wars becomes less recognizable as "Star Wars."
That's not really insightful analysis.
>It just leads to it feeling generic or cheapened
funnily enough the only thing that made the original trilogy unique compared to other sci fi franchises is how shallow the setting was and that was intentional.
It's just a story about a young rebellious kid who rebels against a corrupt authoritarian goverment that was once a democracy. Everything else is quite irrelevant, no alien race, lore or worldbuilding really matters, just fighting for democracy and resisting corruption. It went to shit the moment they tried to make it an actual setting.
>It went to shit the moment they tried to make it an actual setting.
This is probably what I was trying to get my finger on. I think the joke people do, and SW and its EU kinda did this, is that Lucas had some weird name for everything and then every single character in the Cantina needed a name and a full backstory. The moment you try actually making these races and fleshing them out is the moment you fall into problems.
Pretty much everything after the original trilogy did this, the Jedi were clearly vague and just a plot device for Luke to explain to the audience why you must resist political and personal corruption, they were never anything unique, just generic wizards with a few vague christian and buddhist inspired quotes, then the sequels made them a very detailed organization. The goverment was never explored in the original trilogy as well, just a generic democracy was enough.
Something consistent to the original trilogy would be really simple stories and factions, Mandalorians would just be a biker gang, separatists would just be rednecks, other enemies would be shit like pirates or other political and religious extremists based on real life groups, none of them would have much of a backstory and if they did it would be vague.
I think that is what bothered me so much about the prequels. I always thought the Republic should have militarised and Palpatine should have made them fanatics while the Seperatists should have been the clones. And the Jedi should have been closer to wandering warrior monks rather than bureaucratic and on Courscant.
>Mandalorians would just be a biker gang
I just love how this went. Boba was originally meant to be an Imperial Super Commando only they couldn't mass produce the costume so they changed the colours and made him a bounty hunter. He was cool in part due to his aesthetics. Then he somehow didn't live up to something Lucas wanted so Lucas said "throw him in the pit". Then Mandalorians became this super bad ass warrior culture. Then Lucas seemingly regretted killing Boba and wanting to try and win back fans with a fan favourite had Jango. Then Boba is now a clone and you have his cartoon shit. Oh and Mandalore is now a warrior cast but also a race of white nordic type people but also has offshoots and that whole arc. And then you try and fit that with the Mando TV show.
One set of cool costume armor you couldn't mass produce is a cool aesthetic, doesn't please Lucas who regrets it develops into all this kind of shit just because it looked cool.
>I think the joke people do, and SW and its EU kinda did this, is that Lucas had some weird name for everything and then every single character in the Cantina needed a name and a full backstory.
How dare you talk like that about Glup Shitto.
Guess what OP Legends sucked and was non canon. The current canon sucks and is non canon. There you go
There are three continuities:
- Lucas (Episodes I-VI + TCW)
- Legends (anything pre-2015 except TCW)
- Canon (Lucas + anything post-2014)
Anyone who claims anything else is lying.
Canon in terms of fiction is a meaningless concept. The only thing that matters is the quality of the story of itself and nobody should tell you that a story you like doesn't matter because of some bullshit ever changing sense of canon.
>Canon in terms of fiction is a meaningless concept. The only thing that matters is the quality of the story of itself and nobody should tell you that a story you like doesn't matter because of some bullshit ever changing sense of canon.
In terms of comics especially I see it like this:
>Canon should never be so loose it doesn't matter or else people will feel like stories don't matter because they have no consequence.
>Canon should never be so tight you can never tell a truly different story.
It is about finding a happy medium. Retcons happened a bunch in SW right back to the beginning. Retcons happen a lot in comics and indeed a bunch of fiction. JRR Tolkien retroactively changed The Hobbit to fit LOTR. Retcons can be good and fine. It always comes down to quality. But that being said, the perceptions on if it was a quality change or not do differ.
Jedi Knight was pretty fricking dope
I need to host that game again
any time i run in to a dumbfrick like what you're describing i just tell them that episodes 7-9 are not canon