If you're doing a personal muh feelings movie like Logan, the only good options for enemies are your loved ones or yourself.
Any other canonical x-men villain showing up and doing the I-use-powers-by-holding-out-my-arms-and-making-diarrhea-face would have been dumb as shit.
You can't have just humans because then its a superpowered alcoholic immortal with knifehands slaughtering basically defenseless people
the clone was the best option, and the reveal was genuinely spooky
>You can't have just humans because then its a superpowered alcoholic immortal with knifehands slaughtering basically defenseless people
They could have easily set it up so the humans have caught up or outpaced mutants with technology. This is "the future" after all.
>You mean like the guy with the robot arm? That was kind of already in the movie.
Exactly. You didn't need goofy clone shit at all. Logan was an old, dying man, and the human world was catching up with mutants. In some sense ,the movie was halfway making this point, then the goofy clone shit came up.
4 months ago
Anonymous
an old dying man who still tanks a point blank shotgun blast to the chest in the first five minutes
don't think your goofy bicentennial man arm is going to cut it
4 months ago
Anonymous
>an old dying man who still tanks a point blank shotgun blast to the chest in the first five minutes
It really doesn't take much imagination to come up with a device that could easily counter logan. He isn't the Phoenix or some kind of god-like mutant.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Logan survived a nuke.
4 months ago
Anonymous
1: He was younger
2: It wasn't designed by a human specifically to counter him. We have the power of unlimited human imagination here. The writers could have come up with something.
4 months ago
Anonymous
They did though. In one movie the way to kill him was decapitation, although Deadpool 2 showed that it wouldn't work. In another movie, it was throwing Logan into deep water, since he can't swim.
4 months ago
Anonymous
if logan were a standalone movie i'd agree with you, unfortunately the other xmen movies portrayed him as functionally invulnerable
I enjoy The Wolverine but once he shrugs off fricking Hiroshima any sense of jeopardy is gone
4 months ago
Anonymous
The sense of jeopardy is typically Magneto, who can stop Logan with ease.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Why didn't Richard E Grant just clone Magneto?
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Magneto strips Wolverine from his metal >gets killed by bone claws instead
Also, not as thematically fitting to the movie
4 months ago
Anonymous
Lots of people survived Hiroshima
4 months ago
Anonymous
Not really true for the past 20 or so years. Back in the early years he could drown or otherwise be killed and dismembered. Such as in the age of apocalypse cyclops blew off his hand and it didn't regenerate. This was also the same time it was possible to kill Deadpool, nightcrawler teleported away with his head.
By the time of civil war he had become mostly unkillable. Surviving a point blank nuke.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>B-B-But in the comic books, games, tv shows
I don't care. It's like you guys actually wonder who would win, Superman or Batman. You know who will win? The one the WRITER WANTS to win. The writer can write anything they want to get he outcome they desire.
4 months ago
Anonymous
No shit, but people don't care who wins if the writer is a hack. It has to be a logical, earned win with no deus ex machina.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>No shit,
So that that we have established that these are made up characters, with made up rules in a world with made up technology, and the writers can do whatever they want, it's not inconceivable to think that a human created something to specifically counter Logan, a very well known mutant.
4 months ago
Anonymous
they did create something to counter him, the fricking clone
4 months ago
Anonymous
>they did create something to counter him, the fricking clone
And it was goofy
4 months ago
Anonymous
More goofy that a giant purple robot, or an instant vaxx-gun, or fat Brian Cox in tacticool gear?
4 months ago
Anonymous
Are you a bot or something? Why keep repeating yourself like this? Also did you not watch the movie where Logan goes to Japan?
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Are you a bot or something? Why keep repeating yourself like this? Also did you not watch the movie where Logan goes to Japan?
That's rich coming from someone who seems to not (fully) understand that comic books and comic book movies are made up bullshit. On some level you understand, but on another its like this concept is completely lost on you.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Off topic but how did the samurai guy's sword cut off Logans claws in that movie, are they indestructible? Secondly, how did he get new ones afterward?
4 months ago
Anonymous
adamantium can cut adamantium.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>age of apocalypse cyclops
Damn bro. This guy needs to lay off the juice.
4 months ago
Anonymous
you'd think he'd tie that shit back, what with the laser eyes and all
>This is "the future" after all.
not the crappy hedonistic corn syrup future setting they used. Member Looper, and how the dirty late capitalist future was really convincing and engaging until Paul Dano busted out his fricking psychic powers? Sentinels or some other farfetched shit would have ruined it the same way. Cloning is something we've been doing since the 90s
The villain should have been a resurrected evil Cyclops and/or Nightcrawler but they didn't have the balls. Would have been a 10/10 had they went there.
I wished they went with an Omega Red that could represent Logan's dark past without being so on the nose. If they really wanted to use another clone they could have but one that doesn't look exactly like Logan. Like make Wildchild or Dakken be the clone.
Why does it have to shitty? They could do it well instead.
Sabretooth is Wolverine's arch-nemesis, the Joker to his Batman. If he's gonna have a final battle with anyone it should be him and not a shitty clone.
>The point of the clone was to show that Logan is more than a guy with healing powers.
they could have easily done that without goofy clones or dark doppelgangers. It's just hacky comic book shit in what was trying to be a "serious" movie.
Logan was a depressing misanthropic whimper of an ending to a franchise I loved that went out of its way to be cruel to its characters. It deserved the goofy clone.
>Logan was a depressing misanthropic whimper of an ending to a franchise I loved that went out of its way to be cruel to its characters
Why are you chuds always like this? My guess is you hated Hobo Luke in the sequel trilogy, even though he was the best part.
If you're older the movie resonates with you more. It's hard to watch and feel your appearance and physical ability decline. It changes how you feel about yourself and about life. I honestly implore any 18-28 year old to not waste their physical prime sitting around jerking off or playing videogames. Go lift weights, run a marathon, cycle for miles, try a martial art/mma/whatever. When you're an old fart like me you'll regret not having anything to look back on.
Logan is an old broken man (like almost everything from James Mangold), his X24 clone represented his younger dumb self, and his X23 clone represented a chance to live a different life. Pottery
You just have his age, and the corn syrup, catching up to him progressively through the movie. Show him having a harder and harder time recovering from injury each time he's in a fight. Lead that all up to him getting the boots put to him by the Reavers.
>killed by a younger, stronger, semi-feral version of yourself
vs >killed by a bunch of Garand Thumb subscribers
one of these makes a better movie than the other
I hate clone/similar power matchups so much. The most recent example I can think of is Captain America vs himself. It's just going to be a generic slugfest with no creativity or choreography involved because both people have the same fricking moveset so they just attack each other the same way with no effect until one party (good guy) outsmarts the other.
The whole point of a battle is two people have different strengths and weaknesses and powersets so seeing that dynamic relationship play out in a battle is thrilling and cathartic. What fricking NPC sees Wolverine vs Wolverine and their jaw drops in pure excitement.
Just lazy writing.
Depends a lot on the context. The Weapon X program's purpose was to turn Logan into a mindless weapon.
The X-24 is exactly that and shows what would've happened if the plan was successful. It's also the perfect counter to someone who is essentially unkillable.
>It's just going to be a generic slugfest with no creativity or choreography involved because both people have the same fricking moveset so they just attack each other the same way with no effect until one party (good guy) outsmarts the other.
The clone kills Logan with brute force. Have you seen Logan, the movie we are discussing?
Normally I agree with you but I think Logan is a case where identical powers made sense. If it told a more regular X-Men story then yes a straight clone would have been completely lame.
>what do you have against clones besides '''goofy'''
The movie was attempting at least to be (a bit more) grounded than the previous x-men movies. It was a movie about an old and dying logan, trying to do the best he can, in a future world where mutants are either extinct, or highly reined in by humans and advantaged technology. It's the future, and humans have "caught up" to mutants in some respect. So considering all this, logan being old and dying, and future technology creating a less advantageous world for mutants, AND having an old and seline Xavier to care for, that should have been more than enough to put logan in a situation that he couldn't entirely handle.
And then the goofy clone showed up, and it was basically standard capeshit. The movie would have more or less worked without it.
What you're describing is Zero Dark Thirty except Bin Laden is an immortal superhero who solos seal team 6. Take it too far in that grounded direction and Logan himself becomes the goofy character, thoroughly out of place in a realistic and depressing future. Inserting realistic, gritty elements in an inherently fantastical universe is a difficult balancing act, and Logan is the only thing I can think of that does it well. >that should have been more than enough to put logan in a situation that he couldn't entirely handle
Take the clone out of the climactic battle, and you have Logan ODing on future tren, killing a whole bunch of mercs, and then suddenly having a comedown and getting magdumped until he died. More realistic, yes, but less entertaining, less cathartic, and missing a whole bunch of beats necessary to this kind of story. He doesn't get his final words to his daughter, the mercs aren't removed as a threat to the other children, Logan never metaphorically comes to terms with his past sins. It's just torture porn
>Take it too far in that grounded direction and Logan himself becomes the goofy character
But the movie was working great, until the clone showed up. That's my problem with it. You didn't need the silly clone shenanigans. X-23 was logans past facing him, he didn't need a second version of himself to represent it in the most insulting and over-the-top way imaginable.
>movie is literally about white men dying to save mexicans and blacks and help them cross the border
I can't tell you how much I hated this trash movie.
I’m surprised it was a stunt double with jackman’s face replaced. Always thought they shot the same scene twice.
They did a way better job then The Flash
Agreed. Was their thinking that if one clone exists then others could as well and maybe they won't be bad and we can get Jackman back for other movies?
he was thematically appropriate
would you rather have liev schreiber show up running on all fours with shitty wirework
you rather have liev schreiber show up running on all fours with shitty wirework
Can I have neither?
No
If you're doing a personal muh feelings movie like Logan, the only good options for enemies are your loved ones or yourself.
Any other canonical x-men villain showing up and doing the I-use-powers-by-holding-out-my-arms-and-making-diarrhea-face would have been dumb as shit.
You can't have just humans because then its a superpowered alcoholic immortal with knifehands slaughtering basically defenseless people
the clone was the best option, and the reveal was genuinely spooky
>You can't have just humans because then its a superpowered alcoholic immortal with knifehands slaughtering basically defenseless people
They could have easily set it up so the humans have caught up or outpaced mutants with technology. This is "the future" after all.
You mean like the guy with the robot arm? That was kind of already in the movie.
>You mean like the guy with the robot arm? That was kind of already in the movie.
Exactly. You didn't need goofy clone shit at all. Logan was an old, dying man, and the human world was catching up with mutants. In some sense ,the movie was halfway making this point, then the goofy clone shit came up.
an old dying man who still tanks a point blank shotgun blast to the chest in the first five minutes
don't think your goofy bicentennial man arm is going to cut it
>an old dying man who still tanks a point blank shotgun blast to the chest in the first five minutes
It really doesn't take much imagination to come up with a device that could easily counter logan. He isn't the Phoenix or some kind of god-like mutant.
Logan survived a nuke.
1: He was younger
2: It wasn't designed by a human specifically to counter him. We have the power of unlimited human imagination here. The writers could have come up with something.
They did though. In one movie the way to kill him was decapitation, although Deadpool 2 showed that it wouldn't work. In another movie, it was throwing Logan into deep water, since he can't swim.
if logan were a standalone movie i'd agree with you, unfortunately the other xmen movies portrayed him as functionally invulnerable
I enjoy The Wolverine but once he shrugs off fricking Hiroshima any sense of jeopardy is gone
The sense of jeopardy is typically Magneto, who can stop Logan with ease.
Why didn't Richard E Grant just clone Magneto?
>Magneto strips Wolverine from his metal
>gets killed by bone claws instead
Also, not as thematically fitting to the movie
Lots of people survived Hiroshima
Not really true for the past 20 or so years. Back in the early years he could drown or otherwise be killed and dismembered. Such as in the age of apocalypse cyclops blew off his hand and it didn't regenerate. This was also the same time it was possible to kill Deadpool, nightcrawler teleported away with his head.
By the time of civil war he had become mostly unkillable. Surviving a point blank nuke.
>B-B-But in the comic books, games, tv shows
I don't care. It's like you guys actually wonder who would win, Superman or Batman. You know who will win? The one the WRITER WANTS to win. The writer can write anything they want to get he outcome they desire.
No shit, but people don't care who wins if the writer is a hack. It has to be a logical, earned win with no deus ex machina.
>No shit,
So that that we have established that these are made up characters, with made up rules in a world with made up technology, and the writers can do whatever they want, it's not inconceivable to think that a human created something to specifically counter Logan, a very well known mutant.
they did create something to counter him, the fricking clone
>they did create something to counter him, the fricking clone
And it was goofy
More goofy that a giant purple robot, or an instant vaxx-gun, or fat Brian Cox in tacticool gear?
Are you a bot or something? Why keep repeating yourself like this? Also did you not watch the movie where Logan goes to Japan?
>Are you a bot or something? Why keep repeating yourself like this? Also did you not watch the movie where Logan goes to Japan?
That's rich coming from someone who seems to not (fully) understand that comic books and comic book movies are made up bullshit. On some level you understand, but on another its like this concept is completely lost on you.
Off topic but how did the samurai guy's sword cut off Logans claws in that movie, are they indestructible? Secondly, how did he get new ones afterward?
adamantium can cut adamantium.
>age of apocalypse cyclops
Damn bro. This guy needs to lay off the juice.
you'd think he'd tie that shit back, what with the laser eyes and all
It's just one eye
>This is "the future" after all.
not the crappy hedonistic corn syrup future setting they used. Member Looper, and how the dirty late capitalist future was really convincing and engaging until Paul Dano busted out his fricking psychic powers? Sentinels or some other farfetched shit would have ruined it the same way. Cloning is something we've been doing since the 90s
The villain should have been a resurrected evil Cyclops and/or Nightcrawler but they didn't have the balls. Would have been a 10/10 had they went there.
I wished they went with an Omega Red that could represent Logan's dark past without being so on the nose. If they really wanted to use another clone they could have but one that doesn't look exactly like Logan. Like make Wildchild or Dakken be the clone.
Yes
Gonna disagree there. The X-24 was more unsettling than any live action Sabertooth depiction so far.
Yeah it was a good performance and he actually killed someone instead of waving fingers (claws) around.
Why does it have to shitty? They could do it well instead.
Sabretooth is Wolverine's arch-nemesis, the Joker to his Batman. If he's gonna have a final battle with anyone it should be him and not a shitty clone.
The point of the clone was to show that Logan is more than a guy with healing powers.
>The point of the clone was to show that Logan is more than a guy with healing powers.
they could have easily done that without goofy clones or dark doppelgangers. It's just hacky comic book shit in what was trying to be a "serious" movie.
Logan was a depressing misanthropic whimper of an ending to a franchise I loved that went out of its way to be cruel to its characters. It deserved the goofy clone.
>Logan was a depressing misanthropic whimper of an ending to a franchise I loved that went out of its way to be cruel to its characters
Why are you chuds always like this? My guess is you hated Hobo Luke in the sequel trilogy, even though he was the best part.
Giving a (you) to point out the lack of (you)s loser
>a franchise I loved
yeah but why? Days of Future Past is a genuinely good movie but its the exception that proves the rule, most of them are turds
My normie ex girlfriend had the same reaction when we saw it. You're woman brained.
If you're older the movie resonates with you more. It's hard to watch and feel your appearance and physical ability decline. It changes how you feel about yourself and about life. I honestly implore any 18-28 year old to not waste their physical prime sitting around jerking off or playing videogames. Go lift weights, run a marathon, cycle for miles, try a martial art/mma/whatever. When you're an old fart like me you'll regret not having anything to look back on.
I think if that part was weak to you it quickly recovers and maintains it's great status. It's a good movie.
>Xavier last moments is getting killed by the clone and thinking it was the real Logan
kino
the clone reveal was really unsettling, as it was meant to be
this movie was kino if not only because of Patrick Stewart acting senile and yelling about taco bell deals
Logan is an old broken man (like almost everything from James Mangold), his X24 clone represented his younger dumb self, and his X23 clone represented a chance to live a different life. Pottery
We know.
If Logan died in Logan, then why is he back in Deadpool 3?
It's a prequel
Makes sense. It's just like how the Japanese guy from Tokyo Drift came back from the dead in the Fast Furious franchise.
>everyone else's powers are dumb but knifeyhands mcinvulnerable's are totally realistic u guiz
Why are you like this?
>man with accelerated version of natural healing processes
>woman who controls the fricking weather
there are levels to this shit
It is a pseudo sci-fi pulp. Goofy is inherent part of the genre.
Logan was fricking terrible the whole way. Generic save the kid story, way too self serious.
The reason why Terminator 1 is better than 2 is because it's a more serious movie.
You just have his age, and the corn syrup, catching up to him progressively through the movie. Show him having a harder and harder time recovering from injury each time he's in a fight. Lead that all up to him getting the boots put to him by the Reavers.
>killed by a younger, stronger, semi-feral version of yourself
vs
>killed by a bunch of Garand Thumb subscribers
one of these makes a better movie than the other
I hate clone/similar power matchups so much. The most recent example I can think of is Captain America vs himself. It's just going to be a generic slugfest with no creativity or choreography involved because both people have the same fricking moveset so they just attack each other the same way with no effect until one party (good guy) outsmarts the other.
The whole point of a battle is two people have different strengths and weaknesses and powersets so seeing that dynamic relationship play out in a battle is thrilling and cathartic. What fricking NPC sees Wolverine vs Wolverine and their jaw drops in pure excitement.
Just lazy writing.
Depends a lot on the context. The Weapon X program's purpose was to turn Logan into a mindless weapon.
The X-24 is exactly that and shows what would've happened if the plan was successful. It's also the perfect counter to someone who is essentially unkillable.
>It's just going to be a generic slugfest with no creativity or choreography involved because both people have the same fricking moveset so they just attack each other the same way with no effect until one party (good guy) outsmarts the other.
The clone kills Logan with brute force. Have you seen Logan, the movie we are discussing?
Normally I agree with you but I think Logan is a case where identical powers made sense. If it told a more regular X-Men story then yes a straight clone would have been completely lame.
clones are kino you are just a gigantic homosexual
>clones are kino you are just a gigantic homosexual
They are goofy and it ruined the movie. They were doing so well up until that point.
did your clone dad go out for smokes and never come back or something
what do you have against clones besides '''goofy'''
>what do you have against clones besides '''goofy'''
The movie was attempting at least to be (a bit more) grounded than the previous x-men movies. It was a movie about an old and dying logan, trying to do the best he can, in a future world where mutants are either extinct, or highly reined in by humans and advantaged technology. It's the future, and humans have "caught up" to mutants in some respect. So considering all this, logan being old and dying, and future technology creating a less advantageous world for mutants, AND having an old and seline Xavier to care for, that should have been more than enough to put logan in a situation that he couldn't entirely handle.
And then the goofy clone showed up, and it was basically standard capeshit. The movie would have more or less worked without it.
What you're describing is Zero Dark Thirty except Bin Laden is an immortal superhero who solos seal team 6. Take it too far in that grounded direction and Logan himself becomes the goofy character, thoroughly out of place in a realistic and depressing future. Inserting realistic, gritty elements in an inherently fantastical universe is a difficult balancing act, and Logan is the only thing I can think of that does it well.
>that should have been more than enough to put logan in a situation that he couldn't entirely handle
Take the clone out of the climactic battle, and you have Logan ODing on future tren, killing a whole bunch of mercs, and then suddenly having a comedown and getting magdumped until he died. More realistic, yes, but less entertaining, less cathartic, and missing a whole bunch of beats necessary to this kind of story. He doesn't get his final words to his daughter, the mercs aren't removed as a threat to the other children, Logan never metaphorically comes to terms with his past sins. It's just torture porn
>Take it too far in that grounded direction and Logan himself becomes the goofy character
But the movie was working great, until the clone showed up. That's my problem with it. You didn't need the silly clone shenanigans. X-23 was logans past facing him, he didn't need a second version of himself to represent it in the most insulting and over-the-top way imaginable.
Xmen is the only goyslop capeshit i like
>movie is literally about white men dying to save mexicans and blacks and help them cross the border
I can't tell you how much I hated this trash movie.
>australian
>white
I’m surprised it was a stunt double with jackman’s face replaced. Always thought they shot the same scene twice.
They did a way better job then The Flash
Agreed. Was their thinking that if one clone exists then others could as well and maybe they won't be bad and we can get Jackman back for other movies?
Yeah Logan is a good movie but it is slightly overrated.
Singer is still the king of the FoXmen verse.
logan wasn’t kino at all