I'm still vaguely annoyed they assigned the MCU a perfectly sensible earth number, and then later tried to retcon it into 616 for what I have to assume are marketing department-driven reasons
>"People only want to watch the REAL Marvel! You've got the most money going into you out of anything attached to the IP, do you want to be a sideshow or the main event??"
It doesn't matter because the MCU and comics take place in different continuities (that means they exist completely seperately and aren't in the same multiverse at all). 616 in Marvel terms just means "main universe".
Spiderverse did something similar, Peter B. Parker is said to come from Earth 616 but he's obviously not the exact same Spider-Man from the comics.
A VERSION of the MCU exists for the comics to access but it's a completely one-way relationship. Earth 1howevermanynines is a COPY of the MCU.
The real MCU takes place in a separate multiverse that can't affect or be affected by the events that happen in comics. Because nobody working in non-print industries ever wants to have to know what happened in a fricking print media tie-in.
First part is true, it seems there’s a Marvel comic multiverse and a Marvel entertainment Multiverse which is why number designations overpap. They fixed that second part in Spiderverse 2, Peter B is from Earth 616-B, and since that movie also confirmed its in the same multiverse the MCU. Marvel Studios is letting Sony play ball more with crossing their stuff over with each other now, and 616 Peter is Tom Holland I think they felt the need to clarify.
It's so funny that Feige hates comics and despite being in control is making them much worse (all while claiming to be an extremely big comic book fan)
god thats so moronic. Makes everything 10x more confusing just because they want to be the "main" universe, when it affected literally nothing to just go by the designation they were already assigned.
>that means they exist completely seperately and aren't in the same multiverse at all
In Gwenpool Dr Strange acknowledges that there's a movie about him in another dimension played by Benedict Cumberbatch. It's a retcon.
Nope they didn't. Spiderverse respects the universe numerationi by explicitily showing Peter B Parker comes from 616B. From there it's assumed all the other characters come from their B dimensions. 1610B, 66B, etc
You don't get it...199999 is the comic universe in the MCU and 199999 is the MCU in the comic universe. They're interchangeable. 616 is basically the core of the cosmic multiversal tree in that multiverse. So comic 616 and MCU 616 are not the same.
They call the MCU 199999 in Spiderverse 2 though. I know Marvel has Megaverses and Omniverses to spererate canon but if they'd called it something like 626 (cheeky Stich ref) from the start it wouldn't be have to be so convoluted.
We need to see what the official connection between Spiderverse and MCU is going to be because remember that one is Sony-verse and the other is Disney-verse
6 months ago
Anonymous
Narratively speaking, they're the same multiverse.
You can't have them throw characters from one to the other, and make characters comment on what happened in the others' movies, and still say they're 2 different, disconnected things.
I wish they'd make up their mind about the universe designation numbers tho.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>"Narratively Speaking"
ok now you're just moving the goal post. Sony and Disney are "in bed together" but pretty sure their coordination is as good as the three different directors for the Star Wars sequels (that was a joke in case you didn't get it). Sony has their Spiderverse and Marvel has the "Loki-verse" now...until they state that the Spiderverse and the Loki-verse are one in the same then yeah fine. But currently they could be two separate multiverses with different universal number designations. Bother with actual worthwhile plot holes instead of poking holes where there are none and calling them plot holes.
>People only want to watch the REAL Marvel!
You're heavily over-estimating the importance of the comics in the mainstream consciousness. Stacy and Brad don't even know that the main comic timeline is 616. More likely the MCU is considered within the company to now be the MAIN continuity, and the comics merely a story resource to occasionally mine, so someone who did know just decided to take the numbering for the movie-verse.
Kino, ignore the Chudfrickistani contrarians who have Omni-man's dick down their throat. "OH LOOK MARVEL AND DC HAVE PEOPLE WHO LIKE IT LEMME SHILL FOR IMAGE COMICS TO BE A FRICKING CONTRARIAN" pretty much that. But yes, Loki ending was pretty Kino
>ignore the Chudfrickistani
Jesus, I have forgotten this place is called Cinemaphilemblr
>episode immediately starts by turning victor's pretty horrible death at the end of ep4 into a running gag
I mean it's the MCU so I guess I'm not too surprised but they had a pretty effective horrific death there for a while.
Kino, ignore the Chudfrickistani contrarians who have Omni-man's dick down their throat. "OH LOOK MARVEL AND DC HAVE PEOPLE WHO LIKE IT LEMME SHILL FOR IMAGE COMICS TO BE A FRICKING CONTRARIAN" pretty much that. But yes, Loki ending was pretty Kino
Loki becomes the god of time and stories, personally managing the multiverse and stops the TVA from being destroyed. Mobius retires and visits his original family. No stinger although they reference the events of Quantumania and how it's already been dealt with (the Kangs are not aware of the new TVA yet)
Not only is she told that everything is her fault, but she also works at a McDonalds for the rest of her life. I don't know what else bad you want to happen to her.
>Loki becoming an actual overseeing god and embodying an iconic Norse myth tree of life >Sylvie just goes back to being a mid human with mid human wants and needs
I'm just glad Sylvie didn't steal the major ending spotlight.
Wish they just used a non brand. It's so jarring to see it there, especially with Mobius saying his lines at the dine-in like he was given a Truman Show script.
When mobius was asked if any of the kangs know about the TVA yet, and he responded that there was a variant causing problems in a 616 (main marvel universes) adjacent realm (the quantum realm) but it was dealt with (by antman)
c'mon, man, pay attention
the final report Mobius hands in before he heads to check on his timeline, something along the lines of >black woman: any news on the kang variants? >mobius: the one in 616 started some shit but they handled it on their own
Is it implied that it's an infinite job?
Although I guess if that's the case their whole existence would be assembling infinite people to stand outside Kanglet's house and vaporise him as soon as he's born.
I guess in the multiversal spread between He Who Remain's death and Loki taking over a bazillion Kangs had existences that scattered them over time at various power levels?
And so TVA is still variant-hunting.
As part of the whole "maintaining free will for all" sentiment that Loki is sacrificing his existence for, they are allowing Kang variants to exist and live peacefully, unless they try to start some multiversal conquest shit, at which point they will step in and deal with them.
Is it implied that it's an infinite job?
Although I guess if that's the case their whole existence would be assembling infinite people to stand outside Kanglet's house and vaporise him as soon as he's born.
I guess in the multiversal spread between He Who Remain's death and Loki taking over a bazillion Kangs had existences that scattered them over time at various power levels?
And so TVA is still variant-hunting.
The leaks/rumros say the TVA are trying to assemble a superhero team from various universes to deal with Kang, this is where the "Wolverine/Tobey Spider-Man are the main protagonists of Secret Wars" rumor come from.
The TVA now prevents Kangs from getting power, thus causing a Multiversal War. But several Kangs came together and started a Dynasty to protect themselves from the TVA. Similar to Rick creating the citadel of Ricks in rick and Morty.
Loki holds the multiverse in his hands, Kangs don't know about the TVA yet and the End of Time where all the pruned stuff lands is the remains of the TVA way into the future, so they will get destroyed one way or another.
>End of S1 foreshadowed Kang being a problem >S2: NOPE, Kang is totally irrelevant, multiverse is collapsing because that dumb b***h Sylvie's grudge nearly totalled the entire multiverse
What the frick was the point of S1's cliffhanger if Loki ends up having no antagonist other than time itself? Other than to hype up future movie plans at the time I assume are in shambles right now.
They also could have kept existing going post HWR's death if they kept pruning branches. They were admittedly popping up way faster than before but they could have expanded operations to keep pruning branches.
See, I don't understand their logic there. If you know reality will end and everybody will die, why would you refuse to prune branches at that point? If the only way to save 2% is to kill 98%, it's still better than 100% dying.
>See, I don't understand their logic there. If you know reality will end and everybody will die, why would you refuse to prune branches at that point? If the only way to save 2% is to kill 98%, it's still better than 100% dying.
It'll work out. Everyone already knows the Multiverse Saga will end with the MCU soft rebooting so they can properly introduce the X-Men.
The TVA in general seems like a really incompetent organisation for one hyped up to be able to allegedly offscreen Thanos, when their goons can't even keep hold of the street urchin version of Loki. And in general the MCU is just awful at breaking their own messaging.
Take Thanos. He's deranged and his population culling plan is supposed to be the horrific delusions of a lonely man with a messiah complex and sunk cost fallacy. THEN Eternals came along. Made clear that Celestials have a whole other morality balancing act where they see it as right and proper to sacrifice planetary populations so the celestial hatching out can go on to create galaxies full of life or whatever. Celestials mature by feeding on the lifeforce of civilisations. EARTH had a Celestial, and in the movie the return of life is enough for it's Celestial to start hatching.
So in a roundabout way and probably completely unintentionally given his stated justifications and the fact that nobody even mentioned Eros until his cameo at the end of Eternals, Thanos SAVED Earth from destruction nobody there could have seen coming.
>Thanos SAVED Earth from destruction nobody there could have seen coming.
only postponed it. Even without the return of the snapped, population would have grown and eventually the celestial baby would have finished gestating
>hen their goons can't even keep hold of the street urchin version of Loki
Anon, did you just miss HWR's entire speech at the end of last season where he explained how he's responsible for everything that happened?
I don't have enough faith in the MCU to assume that shit will ever be explained, but I did wonder if the Watcher is like-supposed to be a really high level TVA operative or some shit. Or for that matter, where all the other Watchers who were hanging out with Stan Lee fit into it all.
If we're talking about multiversal threats, let's take a moment to remember that canonically nothing and nobody has stopped Dormammu from doing whatever he wants except for the Masters of the Mystic Arts and their wards. Can you imagine Kang, any Kang, picking a fight with Dormammu? homie's opening move is to start subsuming a reality. The frick are the TVA going to do about something like that? For the sake of argument I'm going to assume they deal with Thanos by just time travelling to grab the stones first but Dormammu acted like Dr. Strange's time stone trick was the first time anyone ever pulled that shit on him
he got a fate worse than death, frick the timelines
Frick Sylvie too, b***h was more the ultimate villain of the MCU than Kang himself
>Can you imagine Kang, any Kang, picking a fight with Dormammu?
Funny you bring that up since the rumored plot of Dr. Strange 3 has Stephen going up against both Dormammu and the Council of Kangs
6 months ago
Anonymous
I can only imagine it ending like Thor realising the gods of Omnipotence City are scared shitless of Gorr, because so far the MCU has done less than nothing to convince me any Kang can beat the Ant-Man family, let alone the most powerful onscreen cosmic being introduced by the MCU so far
>If the only way to save 2% is to kill 98%, it's still better than 100% dying
And the show's answer to that is that it's better to die fighting to save the 100% than to accept that sacrifice
>See, I don't understand their logic there. If you know reality will end and everybody will die, why would you refuse to prune branches at that point? If the only way to save 2% is to kill 98%, it's still better than 100% dying.
Exactly, I felt the show executed this aspect poorly. When there is an existential threat to your universe it doesnt make sense in risking taking everyone down
The point is that if there's any hope of an alternative good ending, you should fight for it. Instead of self-defeatedly accepting the lesser of 2 evils from the get go.
"Kang said that more Kangs will destroy all the timelines anyway" isn't compelling to preemptively destroy all the timelines themselves, when Loki could instead protect the timelines while the TVA can combat the Kangs.
Sylvie's choice wasn't wrong just because the timelines were being destroyed by the guy she killed having a timebomb planted, and Loki finally agreed with her to stop fearing HWR's threats, disarm the bomb, and face life as it comes.
Do nothing. Quantumania has a post credits scene of Loki and Mobius seeing Timely at the exhibition for the first time, to tease Loki S2.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>The Kang trilogy consists one Loki S1, Ant-Man 3, and then ending with Loki S2
kek, the controversy with Jonathan Majors really fricked up the hype train. Maybe Kang really is meant to be a C-Lister pretending he could ride with the big boys.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Marvel can simply recast. If that allergic to the idea then they do what Secret Wars already did in the comics by having Doctor Doom ursurp Kang as the main antagonist.
6 months ago
Anonymous
If only, but Ant-Man already screwed that potential solution over with his army of cheering Kangs. And then of course there's the racial part of them not wanting to recast a black actor because of the Rhodey-Perlmutter incident.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>And then of course there's the racial part of them not wanting to recast a black actor because of the Rhodey-Perlmutter incident.
I thought they explained that with the Skrull reveal?
Don't bother. You don't need to know anything about Loki to add anything to your knowledge about Quantumania. In fact, the most likely outcome of watching Quantumania after Loki is probably going to be disappointment for the alleged multiversal threat having absolutely no way to deal with ANTS
>The point is that if there's any hope of an alternative good ending, you should fight for it >You should ignore the guy that won the multiversal war, has been maintaining the multiverse's timeline indefinitely and knows how to predict and control outcomes so well he orchestrated some beyond his own death in linear time
Nta but I mean.
I feel like if there is REASONABLE DOUBT you can't or can do something, there is a valid argument for trusting the actual experts. Instead of doing the temporal equivalent of drinking homeopathic elixirs to cure your stage 3 cancer because you think radiotherapy is a scam
Look, I get it, it's a superhero show that isn't Legion-level bleak so they're always going to choose the optimistic ending. All I'm saying is no matter how you look at it, Loki's leap of faith will ultimately result in Kangs being released to become the new major villain of the next Avengers movie. Although if they jettison all the Kang plans? Lmao, Loki will have been right about everything.
>Sylvie's choice wasn't wrong
Frick you Sylvie, you had NO plan to solve the timelines collapsing and NO right to keep guilt-tripping Loki into simping for you
I think it's just more of NuDoom being framed as being less-religious in its roots. Then again, the writing was on the wall ever since Doom 3.
Fair enough. I think someone just really liked the aesthetics of angels that are also machines, and wanted to make a point about them being not so different to demons given what happens when they don't have the Father around to purify them or whatever
pretty sure a "hypothetical child" will not care about that one line the old guy said two movies ago compared to the "DID YOU SEE THE COOL THING THE THOR DID WITH THE HAMMER AND THE LIGHTNING AND THEN HE DID THE SPIN AND IT WAS SO AWESOME"...children / younger audience aren't looking for the "nuance" in things like us older grizzled neckbeards and manchildren are.
You might be surprised. We were children once too, you know, and there's still a big audience for DEEPEST LORE videos. I'm not saying it's every child, I'm just saying someone might point it out.
Ahh, reminds me of the Andor situation where it received quiet praise from fans while everyone was busy with Asohka, Obi-Wan, and Mandalorian S3.
Andor is a classic case of too little, too late. Yes, it was good. But after the other offerings I honestly can't blame anyone for not giving the show about seemingly trying to elevate a nothingburger character into a leading man a chance.
>We were children once too, you know, and there's still a big audience for DEEPEST LORE videos. I'm not saying it's every child, I'm just saying someone might point it out.
Ah frick. I was just looking up Loki scene uploads on Youtube to see the comments and I'm immediately swarmed with LORE DISCUSSION: THIS CHANGES THE MCU videos.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Lore autism is eternal. I don't know whether to take that with optimism or sadness, but it is what it is.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I don't mind it existing. I just find it annoying that there's more than a couple dozen content creators manifesting it. The worst part is these content creators and nerd sites can't stop sensationalizing with the recurring "changes the MCU" phrase.
This might have actually been a good thing, considering the Jonathan Majors controversy and a major complaint of the S1 finale was that it felt like a tease for the movies rather than a proper conclusion for the show so it's nice that S2 mostly dealt with the characters of the show and leaving Kang or whatever the big threat is for the next two Avengers films.
Oh, don't get me wrong I'm no Kang fan. I'm just saying the end of S1 was not only frickin' pointless, but also continues the trend of the MCU accidentally making Kang out to be a chump by giving him all these offscreen feats-and then having him job so hard that he can't even fricking show up in the show that teased him
The second is supremely OK, which makes it super high quality by disney + standards... but it is absolutely not the season that the first season's finale was hinting or moving to. It's either a case of jonathan majors scandal requiring them to rewrite the show (unlikely, he's actually in it quite a bit?) or more likely the impossibility to tell a satisfying story when you need the actual war and climax of the kang story to take place in 10 other movies.
Could have been bullshit, but the writers/director said they explicitly didn’t rewrite or reshoot anything regardless of the Majors drama. So what we got was what was meant to be.
No, Kang is still a problem, Loki didn't "delete" him from his multiverse, Kang is now the BIG problem because he's the one causing the timelines to end at the foliage of the Multiversal Tree, Kang is now an inevitability, everything Thanos wanted to be, Loki is the beginning of Time, and Kang is the end of time. Now how will the MCU react to this, we'll see.
I like Cinemaphile because there is less shitposting. I get that people are free to express what they want, but having other post complain about israelites is repetitive.
Yeah. Cinemaphile is pretty much the most bearable populated board in the site. But it loses sight of its original purpose at times and it eventually becomes the pop culture board.
Loki went from being the initial main villain of the MCU to the literal god of the MCU, it's a nice alternate arc to what happens to him in Infinity War
I wonder if while sitting in that chair he can at least witness whats going on in the universes he's holding onto. I'd like for him to at least have some infinite TV and not go insane from boredom.
He makes a cameo in Loki S1 (a statue of him was at the end of all time) and Multiverse of Madness. He was supposed to appear in Infinity War where Strange would have summoned him to judge Thanos for his crimes during the titan fight and Thanos would have pulled some move to get himself paradoned but it got cut.
>“[Kevin Feige] wanted to make sure we didn’t lose the sort of psychedelic aspect of the ‘Starlin-verse,’ where people travel inside their eyeballs and things like that,” said Markus. “And so we stuck the Living Tribunal in the movie. [As] Thanos and Doctor Strange came to blows, Doctor Strange blew Thanos’ mind and sent him through the mindscape.”
>“[The] idea was that [Thanos is] sort of zipping through the universe being presented with all of his many, many crimes,” added McFeely. “So bodies are being thrown at him, he lands and things turn into bodies, hands are grasping at him, and it’s just really kind of grim. And at the end he gets dumped in front of the Living Tribunal who judges him guilty. It was great.”
>Despite being high on the sequence, the decision was ultimately made to cut the character from the script, with Markus stating: “When you introduce the idea of the Living Tribunal, it does open up a whole new era. I don’t know if my grandmother would understand that. Also, if that guy exists, why is Thanos a problem? Just have him smack him around a little bit.”
>Strange would have summoned him to judge Thanos for his crimes during the titan fight and Thanos would have pulled some move to get himself paradoned but it got cut.
Nah, they would just punch each other into his dimension and he would glare at them, which they sort of did in Multiverse of Madness anyway.
No matter how much the upgraded the loom, the sacred timeline was growing infinitely so there was no way to stabilize it, which was according to He Who Remain's plan. Loki was out of options until he figured out he had to suffer the burden of his glorious purpose and attempt to rebuild the multiverse better than it was. There's a leap in power there, but it's implied that he got complete control of time at that point and centuries worth of physics knowledge.
The sacred timeline exists to prevent there from being an infinite number of Kangs that create a multiversal war that destroys everything. It's basically a designer universe by He Who Remains where everything is planned out. The hard choice and the least evil option.
The loom exists in conjunction with the TVA to maintain the sacred timeline. The multiverse naturally wants to branch out and the TVA prunes the alternate realities to keep things manageable. The loom itself is a failsafe for if the TVA drops the ball. It's primary purpose that the TVA know about is to weave the branches they don't clear into the sacred timeline. But really it's a failsafe. If there are too many branches (because they aren't being culled properly) it'll get overloaded and obliterate everything except the sacred timeline.
After the TVA find out that they are all variants they have a little civil war. In the end the survivors don't want to prune universes anymore so they need to enhance the loom to handle all the extra timelines that are being created. They try and try but discover that no matter how much its capacity is increased the multiverse is growing infinitely and will always overload the loom no matter how they enhance it. The only way to avoid the problem is to not kill He Who Remains and to continue pruning universes.
Loki wants another answer besides just taking on He Who Remains role and going back to the old system of pruning (killing) universes to maintain the stability of the sacred timeline. He opts instead to destroy the loom and release the infinite multiverse which He Who Remains warns will threaten multiversal war and the end of everything.
After blowing up the loom we see the various branches start dying, most likely the first signs of what He Who Remains warned about. So Loki's solution is to take a seat at the end of time and manually maintain the branches himself with his magic and time slipping powers.
>manually maintain the branches himself with his magic and time slipping powers
i just realized what that actually means jesus >loki using his time powers to go into different realities to make sure the universe doesn't die. Infinitely.
he's like the sorcerer supreme but above that.
Loki has no power anymore, so I wouldn't call him the god of the MCU. He exists now only to ensure free will exists.
Feige also can't really be called the god of the MCU because he doesn't really even exist in-universe. That part of She-Hulk was meant to take place in a universe where everything in the MCU is fictional and just a series of movies/shows, like ours.
Loki has no power anymore, so I wouldn't call him the god of the MCU. He exists now only to ensure free will exists.
Feige also can't really be called the god of the MCU because he doesn't really even exist in-universe. That part of She-Hulk was meant to take place in a universe where everything in the MCU is fictional and just a series of movies/shows, like ours.
We might see how fourth wall break jokes will interact with the multiverse rules in Deadpool 3.
Apparently the FoX-men's inconsistent timeline and constant retcons is going to be an actual plot point in the movie because it's an unstable hotzone to the TVA. Also pic related set leak photo implies the 20th Century Fox universes got pruned by the TVA
I want them to acknowledge that the Phoenix is why the X-Men's world keeps ending. Seriously, have you noticed EVERY FRICKING TIME they bring in that moronic firebird, they frick it up? Frick the Phoenix. All my homies hate the Phoenix
What'd they have before? The realms in a tree shape or something? Also it's a very neat concept but some of the Norse mythology alignment in the MCU just makes shit odd that like, random vikings knew this shit that'd happen in the future or whatever.
In the Thor movies, it seemed more like the realms under Odin's domain. Then kind of started ignoring the tree and realms when they introduced the cosmic side in GOTG.
Nta but yeah, the impression I initially got was the 9 realms were different dimensions, especially given the scope of what the dark elves wanted to do. Then later movies like Ragnarok and Infinity War made it seem like they were just planets. At this point I don’t care anymore because it;s obvious the writers don’t.
What'd they have before? The realms in a tree shape or something? Also it's a very neat concept but some of the Norse mythology alignment in the MCU just makes shit odd that like, random vikings knew this shit that'd happen in the future or whatever.
I think the only big MCU reference was a constellation.
Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead are incredibly efficient directors, Moon Knight also didn't have any reshoots and it's what got them the Loki S2 job. Now they're going to fix Daredevil Born Again. I could see them being chosen to direct Secret Wars.
Best investment Feige has made in forever, their work on scifi/horror projects (Spring, Resolution, The Endless) already was top notch indie shit but they dont frick around when it comes to excess involvement in their projects
You say that as if people weren't hyped for Daredevi for the fights and don't constantly complain about the superheroes not suiting up for the majority of episodes in the D+ Marvel shows.
I'll say this though, it would be a shame if they completely ditched the focus on Matt being a lawyer because he really sucked ass as one in his own series and it's funny that he was only shown actually being skilled as a lawyer in No Way Home and She-Hulk.
Daredevil S1 took 13 episodes to give him a costume and it was great. How many times has studio mandated action at the cost of story been a good thing?
I agree on you on the studio mandated thing but I distinctly remember the Daredevil costume reveal was criticized and most ended up preferring his traditional black outfit.
6 months ago
Anonymous
A vocal few always had problems with the suit, but that's besides the point. The fact is he didn't suit up until the last episode and the series didn't suffer for it.
I agree on you on the studio mandated thing but I distinctly remember the Daredevil costume reveal was criticized and most ended up preferring his traditional black outfit.
A vocal few always had problems with the suit, but that's besides the point. The fact is he didn't suit up until the last episode and the series didn't suffer for it.
I had no problem with them building up to the costume in Season 1, but I was annoyed when they ditched it after the Defenders miniseries and he never reclaimed it from Bullseye or Gladiator's workshop in S3 and just wore the black tracksuit again instead. The whole of Season 3, I was eagerly waiting for Matt to take back his DD suit, and it never happened. Or even for for Bullseye to take HIS suit, paint it black, file the horns off and put the target on the forehead, though that would've been a little more out there. Still loved the season, but damn, two big missed opportunities there.
It's a superhero show. Let him wear the damn super suit.
Loki S2 only had a very limited number of set locations in the TVA which they kept recycling. Made the whole place feel so tiny. How do they go between a control room with a futuristic cityscape and an underground basement with a giant loom in the void of space without more variety of locations in between?
Was Mobius' story about pruning a kid, who would eventually kill thousands, at the Black Sea supposed to be a reference to a character from the comics?
>Was Mobius' story about pruning a kid, who would eventually kill thousands, at the Black Sea supposed to be a reference to a character from the comics?
I think the implication was that he had to prune one of his sons
My assumption was that's where Kid Loki came from, but he probably would've mentioned that much assuming Main Loki should know about variants by now. It's honestly kind of dark and weird that they'd use that moment in time, even if it's meant to be a pleasant and easy callback. Loki is looking for help from his friend while he's at his most brainwashed and untrusting. Thanks to Mobius' nature it works out but, it's still hardly heartwarming to hear your bestie say "I wasn't strong enough to kill a kid but thankfully my buddy knew the right thing was to de-life them."
On that note it's weird Loki gets sooort of a goodbye with both Sylvie and Mobius but neither of them feel proper. The "main cast" before they get time-sent to their origin (or die while their origin remained I guess) know just about nothing outside of their main plan which goes out the door the moment Loki does, and he barely gives them any explanation or closure. Just see you later suckers I've got my answer have a nice life. I was expecting some last minute Sylki or Lokius kiss or something (the latter hardly likely I know) but within this episode and for the most part this season neither would've felt earned so it's just like, goodbye the two closest people I've known since being a variant. Have fun sorting this out emotionally while I sit in a chair for eternity.
Loki’s biggest fear is being alone. and yet, he gave himself to an eternity of isolation to protect not only his friends but the whole multiverse. He is made of love. the most selfless being to ever exist. Although it breaks my heart to think of him by himself, this is a beautiful arc. From a character who only thought of himself, to one who is always caring for and protecting others. And he can feel his friends around him, see the lives that he allowed them to have. also, it’s very rewarding to see him finally understand the burden of glorious purpose. understand what it means to have a throne, to have power. understand what it means to sacrifice, to not make the easy choice, to find purpose in others, and to love and protect. Loki's character arc is right up there with Tony Stark and Steve. Fitting for one of the very first MCU characters
In spite of all the Science Fiction convoluted stuff, this scene and most of the final episode really endeared me to the series. I expected passable and I got feels and a sense that my time getting invested wasn't a total waste like what happens with most time travel plots.
I'm going to be pissed if none of this ever gets brought up in the movies. Like obviously there will be a massive war which fricks up the tree, so maybe let Loki show up and have a scene with Thor or something.
Loki could appear in Thor 5, the upcoming movies are apparently retooled to tie to the overarching story a lot more like Dr. Strange 3 will apparently involve the Council of Kangs
Time travel works differently in different contexts
A time machine is obviously going to function differently than a rock channeling raw energy from the creation of the universe
>So does Victor Timely's variant work for the TVA now?
No, they went out of their way to show that young victor never received the TVA handbook in this timeline. If he was still there, they would have shown him in one of the post-ascension TVA scenes. OB still made him the co-author for the second edition of the handbook.
>If he was still there, they would have shown him in one of the post-ascension TVA scenes.
Not exactly. Where would they put him? The Council of Kangs would be after his ass on MCU-616 or any of its branches to recruit and/or use him for nefarious means.
Regarding Victor Timely
So none of the MCU Kangs are named "Nathaniel Richards" and are all extensions of Timely or is he born in different time periods under different names and origins?
We have no fricking idea. Timely was also included in HWR's plans as he directly talked about the events that happened during Loom's failure, Timely being given the book was part of his plans to help Loki gain an understanding of his time powers. It could as easily be he put his own clone at one point in the timeline to do this
It's a bit unclear but I think Timely was just a variant that came from 19th century, the Kangs in Quantamania are definitely not extensions of Timely considering their technology levels. Someone also pointed out the Council of Kangs were using Reed Richard's portal from MoM so the F4 connection might still be present.
Confirmation that S2 is the end for the Loki series
https://www.cinemablend.com/interviews/loki-season-3-what-loki-writer-eric-martin-says-continuing-story
Good call tbh, I've had many reasons to dislike this show (and by many reasons, I mean all of Sylvie's screentime) but I respect them just ending the story instead of dragging it out and going full Agents of SHIELD
Most likely TVA Loki would stay as he who remains and they could bring back 616 Loki by having him fake his death like old man Loki and the TVA won’t go after him if he chose to see his brother again.
If there were ever a Loki season 3 then it could be about the Loki variant that Loki prune to the end of time because he still exist. I don’t expect them to do anything with the Loki remains unless the multiverse is under threat or something but it seems that’s the end of that Loki’s story.
Considering Loki can now 'control time slipping' he can literally jump to his body at any point in time and them come right back to where he is king of time at a whim
How did Doom Patrol end? I loved the show but after a while the team repeatedly falling off the wagon and having therapy sessions got old to me, and I dropped off when they let Madame Rouge join even though she was fricking irredeemable
You'll want to watch and power through season 4. The first half of it has some smattering of fun here and there but otherwise a slog. Back half is quite enjoyable and the finale hits the emotions like a fricking truck.
So what happens is >Immortal big bad turns out to be the drama reject from Rita's play that Rouge accidentally dropped into the time vortex. She fricks off at the end after the were-butts help her feed her ego over a thousand years. The team get back their longevity in the end but it's too late and the Doom Patrol disbands >Rita accepts that she's not perfect and passes on and reunites with her S3 boyfriend in the afterlife >Larry decides to go for it and just live again for the good times and love and turns into a sun or something with Kieg and Mohinder >Jane comes to terms with her daddy rape trauma, the underground is no more and the personas unite under her as one personality they call (K)aleiedoscope. She goes on to paint art in space with a comic book character for a girlfriend >Cyborg gets his groove and tech back and does outreach for kids at the robotics club he and his bestie run >Rouge comes to terms that she'll never be an entirely good person with heart to hearts from Rita and Cyborg so she decides to go burn down the Ant Farm with a flamethrower >We see Niles again through visits to the past. Cliff is the one who crippled him. >Cliff made it home to daughter and grandson to live with them but he realizes he hasn't got long left. Big bad gave him a time crystal to hang in his car that shows him Rory's future ending on a moment that links back to his own pursuit to reconnect back with his family. Cliff shuts down in his car with the two of there and tells Clara it's okay. This scene by itself makes S4 worth it.
>they let Madame Rouge join even though she was fricking irredeemable
It's part of the theme of the show that she isn't totally bad. She's great in S4 too.
Thank you. That last scene does sound nice. There's a lot I love about that show, it's just that after a while the theme of shitty people giving each other free passes got on my nerves-especially Cyborg's b***h girlfriend.
I'll probably never have the full context for it when I get bored enough to catch up, but for what it's worth it does sound like a fitting ending and I'm happy the show happened at all even if I didn't like how the Cliff/Jane relationship was so harsh compared to the comics. It wasn't for me in the end, but I can appreciate it for what it is.
I cried like such a b***h at the final scene. It was a good episode all the way through, I laughed my head off at the funeral and loved the balance of humor with sadness there. But that ending was a gorgeous gut punch. Doom Patrol has often been a shaky show over the course of its run, but this reminded me exactly why I always loved it.
How do the concepts of branched timelines and alternate universes overlap? Does each universe have its own infinite timeline variations? Is each stable timeline considered its own dimension/universe?
>How do the concepts of branched timelines and alternate universes overlap?
The longer a branched timeline remained unpruned, it becomes an alternate universe so yeah timeline/universe is interchangeable in the MCU. >Does each universe have its own infinite timeline variations?
We see during the view of the sacred timeline that even branched timelines have their own branches sprouting of them
In Captain America The First Avenger, we see the Tesseract hidden behind a mural of Yggdrasil. Now Loki is Yggdrasil. One day, the Norsemen will make a mural of him and give it the Tesseract, which he's always wanted. Thereby creating another Ouroboros loop. Could the Time Stone also be green because Loki, the god of time, usually wears green?
>Loki is Yggdrasil
...what actually happened in the finale? I don't get it. Throughout the MCU I've always had a dismissive opinion of Loki's magical abilities compared to Dr. Strange and even Thor after a while. Now suddenly he can manipulate fate on a multiversal scale? Was it just walking into the Loom explosion like Dr. Manhattan, his timeslip powers evolving, or something else? Could ANY Asgardian do that?
I mean I understand WHY it's happening. It's an emotional climax to Loki's first encounter with He Who Remains where he accepts that with great power comes great responsibility. I just don't understand WHAT is happening, the process involved here.
Loki's powers were evolving drome exposure to the TVA which was the intention of HWR. HWR wants to stop ruling because he's tired of maintaining the sacred timeline. Loki decides that he'll pick a 3rd option and resuscitate the multiverse branches which would be otherwise dead with his magic.
HWR picked Loki because he's got tons of potential, and the megalomania to be manipulated into taking over.
If you say so, I get HWR chose Loki as his successor because he has spunk or whatever, completely missed that TVA exposure was actually changing his powers. Again I must ask: Why only LOKI? Could Thor not have the same thing?
Not that I would trust Thor with the management of the multiverse, otto be fair.
>You are alone. And you always will be.
WHY SIF WHY
Shhhh give Sif her moment, she's been cucked out of literally everything else from Thor's dick to her friends to her homeland to being anything close to impressive among gods now the MCU has introduced actually godlike gods like Shang-Chi's dragon and Moon Knight's Egyptian gods...
No seriously think about what the Asgardians look like to the other pantheons, they're like the North Korea of deities. Once-feared conquerors kept in a gilded cage by a dying old man deliberately nerfing his people.
HWR picked Loki because he's got tons of potential, and the megalomania to be manipulated into taking over.
[...]
If you say so, I get HWR chose Loki as his successor because he has spunk or whatever, completely missed that TVA exposure was actually changing his powers. Again I must ask: Why only LOKI? Could Thor not have the same thing?
Not that I would trust Thor with the management of the multiverse, otto be fair.
[...]
Shhhh give Sif her moment, she's been cucked out of literally everything else from Thor's dick to her friends to her homeland to being anything close to impressive among gods now the MCU has introduced actually godlike gods like Shang-Chi's dragon and Moon Knight's Egyptian gods...
No seriously think about what the Asgardians look like to the other pantheons, they're like the North Korea of deities. Once-feared conquerors kept in a gilded cage by a dying old man deliberately nerfing his people.
The impression I got was that HWR didn't actually seriously consider Loki to become his successor but rather used him as a failsafe in case Sylvie managed to kill him, everything (even beyond his death during the events of season 2) was preordained and arranged so that Loki would come back to that moment with his timeslipping powers and save him from Sylvie to maintain the status quo (otherwise everything is destroyed).
The problem with his plan was that he didn't expect Loki to pick a third option by replacing the temporal loom with himself and reforming the multiverse so he still died anyway.
If that's so, we're back to square 1. Although on reflection, if episode 5 is to be taken at face value the recipe for supreme multiversal godhood seems to be god powers (any) + mastering time slipping. And the Loom's engine exploding is just a way to get to where you can timeslip your magic to set things up how you want them to be.
>If that's so, we're back to square 1
Not completely, the big impact the show makes is that the multiverse now exists and the TVA are no longer pruning timelines and are instead more like their comic counterpart in that they're essentially SHIELD for time travel, which may tie into the Avengers movies with the whole "assembling superheroes from different universes to create a team" thing.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I meant more in terms of understanding how Loki actually accomplished what he did, but I mean yeah. Although I have to wonder how shit like Dormammu, Eternity and the Watcher ties into all this.
That doesn't make sense since HWR could have killed Sylvie anytime he wanted by freezing time. From what I could tell he just didn't want to remain stuck at the end of time anymore and push the burden onto Loki.
Loki's powers were evolving drome exposure to the TVA which was the intention of HWR. HWR wants to stop ruling because he's tired of maintaining the sacred timeline. Loki decides that he'll pick a 3rd option and resuscitate the multiverse branches which would be otherwise dead with his magic.
HWR picked Loki because he's got tons of potential, and the megalomania to be manipulated into taking over.
>I mean I understand WHY it's happening. It's an emotional climax to Loki's first encounter with He Who Remains where he accepts that with great power comes great responsibility. I just don't understand WHAT is happening, the process involved here.
Go watch episode 5 again. This show is fiction. WHAT is not important, WHY is all that matters.
I was genuinely unsure how much of that to take literally and how much as metaphor for Loki getting in the right frame of mind to take control of the time-slipping. That and infuriated that after all the bullshit she got way with, Sylvie is somehow still allowed to be in a position of moral authority by the narrative. Somehow.
What Happened?
Simple, Loki has mastered time, he understands how it works, how it flows and can control it (he can stop it at will) Could ANY Asgardian do it? maybe, maybe not, Odin was stupid powerful and it is implied he got tired of it and stopped. We see in Love and Thunder that Asgardians are literally tied to entities like fate and eternity, so yeah Loki a Jotun raised in Asgard and trained in magic has ascended beyond his godhood, He's now up there with Fate, Eternity and the other beyond cosmic entities as Time itself. By creating Yggrasil ( Multiverse) he effectively is the one responsible for the existence of the MCU as we know it. Now we know why the time stone is green, etc. Now can go back and whenever you watch anything MCU related you know that instead of a "Sacred Timeline" It's all happening in Loki's Yggdrasil MCU, that's what happened.
>We see in Love and Thunder that Asgardians are literally tied to entities like fate and eternity
It's so funny that we've gone from Odin explicitly saying Asgardians aren't gods, won't live forever and humanity is catching up to them soon in Thor 1 to everyone acting like Asgardians have always been gods, will live indefinitely if not killed in battle or something, and for some reason the Odinforce is the only thing that can unlock the way to Eternity.
Just, the sudden swerve from relatively modest advanced aliens to embracing the comics portraying Asgardian royalty as the Super Saiyans of gods.
which again it's a GOOD THING, the "we're just advanced aliens" schlock took a lot of what made this part of Marvel special. Glad they're finding a "happy medium"
>we're just advanced aliens
Unfortunately it seems like a popular cop-out to including divine beings into an expansive world. Nu-Doom did this and I was disappointed. But at least Moon Knight seems to be treading the "gods aren't all aliens" bit. Don't know what the Ghost Rider lore is of Agents of Shield though.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Nu-Doom did this and I was disappointed.
Eh did it really? Jekkad was supposed to be a paradise realm and Davoth was the actual god of the setting who turned 99% of the population into soulless husks in his mad quest for immortality (and actually fricking achieved it for an elite 1% living in Hell's capital)
Really I'm more bothered that Nu-Doom kept retconning in it's own lore to subvert expectations or something.
>Agents of Shield
Unfortunately the Spirit of Vengeance is framed as an "extradimensional being" using the rider as a host
6 months ago
Anonymous
I think it's just more of NuDoom being framed as being less-religious in its roots. Then again, the writing was on the wall ever since Doom 3.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Unfortunately the Spirit of Vengeance is framed as an "extradimensional being" using the rider as a host
Praying for a retcon. Also kekked at being reminded that at one point, people thought Mephisto was going to be the post-Endgame big bad if not Galactus.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Praying for a retcon
Eh, it feels like it gets retconned every few years at this point. The Johnny Blaze one is still very much acting like a hell spirit and fighting demons.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Praying for a retcon
Eh, it feels like it gets retconned every few years at this point. The Johnny Blaze one is still very much acting like a hell spirit and fighting demons.
At this point I just wish GR was a spinoff character from Constantine. I love the lore of every generation having Spirits of Vengeance hosts but in the grand scheme of Marvel-extended universe history, it kinda fizzles out its significance.
6 months ago
Anonymous
And I wish Spider-Man could trade places with Wonder Woman so he can escape the cycle of cuckoldry and she can snap necks in peace without someone pretending she's some kind of ambassador of peace or whatever, but life is suffering.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>people thought Mephisto was going to be the post-Endgame big bad if not Galactus.
Would've been better choices. With Mephisto, you'd be able to open up the more supernatural side of the Marvel U. With Galactus, the cosmic shit.
I'm not complaining! I'm just saying it must be insanely jarring for, I don't know, a hypothetical child that only just heard of the MCU and is marathoning everything in order to see Odin be contradicted so hard between like 3 movies
6 months ago
Anonymous
pretty sure a "hypothetical child" will not care about that one line the old guy said two movies ago compared to the "DID YOU SEE THE COOL THING THE THOR DID WITH THE HAMMER AND THE LIGHTNING AND THEN HE DID THE SPIN AND IT WAS SO AWESOME"...children / younger audience aren't looking for the "nuance" in things like us older grizzled neckbeards and manchildren are.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Ahh, reminds me of the Andor situation where it received quiet praise from fans while everyone was busy with Asohka, Obi-Wan, and Mandalorian S3.
6 months ago
Anonymous
kids don't care about character development they only care bout the cool stuff that happens on-screen. Kids who watch Loki will remember how "cool" he looked at the end sitting on his throne. They won't give two shits about the moral nuances of his "sacrifice" and "deep character developments and so on.
6 months ago
Anonymous
That implies kids actually understood the sci-fi jargon. But at least the ones who watch and rewatch the series trying to understand it on their own will have a blast with their first experience with time travel shenanigans that aren't as straightforward as Endgame's.
>Just, the sudden swerve from relatively modest advanced aliens to embracing the comics portraying Asgardian royalty as the Super Saiyans of gods.
And that happened when the movies started failing with general audiences. Funny.
At the beginning of the episode he says he wishes to know all Ouroboros and Victor know, they tell him it would take "centuries" to get that information. The very next scene we see Loki building the machine they needed, controlling all the TVA machines and giving specific instructions to every single person to avoid any and all possible mistakes. Later on he confronts HWR and reveals they've had the same conversation multiple times before.
It's obvious that between the last two episodes Loki has actually spent centuries studying physics, engineering and time itself both from a scientific and a magical perspective as he manages to both control time slipping and stop time at will.
Oh, it's the magical equivalent of that "if you build a supercomputer that knows the position of every atom in the universe and all it's movements, you can predict the future with 100% accuracy" thought experiment, except with actual god magic nudging the future along. I was confused because I thought that was merely the information they needed to figure out the ACTIONS the Loom needed to take to fix everything not the PROCESS of actually fixing it. Now it all makes sense. Thank you.
My interpretation was (based on what we see on the show) >Loki meets Old Loki >Discovers that he can do a lot more with his magic powers >newest season has him starting to use them more >He Who Remains either awakens something in him or straight up gives him the same control he has over time (he says he paved the way) >He Who Remains is the one who wants the loop to continue until Loki doesn't do something different, to do that he makes sure to turn Timely into him every time >Loki control over time at some point becomes just as good as He Who Remains, only he has the power of a god >tries everything, for most of the episode you are fooled into thinking the hard choice Loki has to make is destroying all the other timelines, but by the time he talks to Mobius for the last time he had already realized that with his control over time he can keep the multiverse alive, only he has to take give up on everything for it
This was a areally REALLY good ending, I even dreamt about it last night holy shit! I'm amazed at just how good it is, it's so rare these days for any fictional entertainment to be now.
So does this mean Season 2 is actually worth watching?
I though the first season was just alright and then eventually I wrote off every disney+ show they crap out after getting burned one too many times, but from the fact that I've not really seen any mass complaining about this new Loki being shit either here or on mainstream social media (beyond Sylvie apparently being a shit), it seems that there's nothing offensively bad about this like there usually is.
It is. Seems like they knew what they wanted to do from the get go so both seasons feel like halves of one proper story cut in two. The way S1 ended made it feel like it turned into the Sylvie OCDNS show but altogether the focus very definitely Loki. For once a Disney show named after a character actually does have said character be the real main character of the show.
Has anyone else mentioned or does anyone else feel like the Loki show took 2 seasons to give Loki the same basic character arc that he had in movies.
Loki, a selfish self serving prick gradually learns that life isn't all about him and his wants, over comes his issues with abandonment and feeling like an outcast (rekindles his relationship with his brother/ makes friends at the TVA), ultimately forced to sacrifice himself for the good of those he cares for.
Him slowly dragging the time line cape looked cool, him becoming the core of Ygdrasil looked cool. But it's essentially, to me at least, the same damn story. A story I had to watch 2 seasons of to see again.
You go through the trouble to make a show about variant Loki where you introduce a number of variant Loki's and they all have the same damn story where they get killed off being buttholes or they sacrifice themselves for the greater good (Old Loki). If the message is you can't escape your fate...is that the message?
I think I was hoping to see this "different" variant Loki who had new experiences take a different path, for better or worse. This ultimately comes off as an extremely elaborate way to write him out of the MCU universe after they had already killed him off. BUT, maybe I'm speaking to soon, and I just need to wait for the next season of Disney+'s hit series Loki.
The finale had some really beautiful visuals. Surprised Marvel Studios did not frick up the special affects for this show like some of other recent projects. I’m really curious how Loki will play a role, if any, in the Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars movies. There is no way we are not seeing Loki again.
I don't think that's going to be the last time we see Loki, the last thing left they could do with him is have him reunite with Thor and they finally have closure with each other, which could happen in Thor 5 or Avengers.
Rumor has it that Hemsworth is going to be stepping back from acting soon so he might just be doing what ever contractual things he has left.
Dude did a bunch of genetic tests for a National Geographic series and found out he's predisposition for Alzheimers. Two copes of a warning gene called APOE4.
So unless they get a replacement no more Thor content soon. Which might be great because the directors and writers are clearly just playing dick tugging games.
One of the main criticisms of the first season is that it was partially sold to fans on the idea of returning to a still-evil 2012 Avengers Loki, who everyone loved as a villain, and then in the first episode Mobius shows him an "MCU LOKI FULL STORY HD" recap video which gets Loki to instantly go through all that development and get to essentially the same place he was in before he was killed in Infinity War.
Point is, I don't think there's much else you can give MCU Loki in terms of an arc. If you keep him as a villain, then he can't really be the hero/protagonist (or at least, Disney probably wouldn't allow it), so you'd have to do a redemption arc of some kind and fix the character's deep-rooted personal issues like the abandonment and shitty upbringing.
>which gets Loki to instantly go through all that development and get to essentially the same place he was in before he was killed in Infinity War.
Disagree, the original Loki was defined by his relationship with Thor. His redemption arc was basically just that he cared for his brother deep down in the end. Show Loki doesn't have that, the point is that he develops relationships with characters other than Thor.
At the start of the series he does join the TVA because he plans to take over it but is constantly blindsided by stuff like Sylvie and Kang, he's a jobber because he's out of his element suddenly being thrusted into the TVA world. By season two, he becomes more experienced and powerful until he ironically achieves what he set out to do at the start of the show by taking the throne of the greatest power but at the cost of sacrificing his relationships with the people he grew to care about.
Quantumania was just a mess. They had five hero characters across three generations. Scott had nothing to prove after Endgame anyway.
6 months ago
Anonymous
He didn’t have anything to prove, but he was dealing with post-Thanos PTSD. I felt like Quantumania was good for Scott’s arc in the same way endgame was good for Tony’s arc. Tony had to get over himself and his guilt, Scott had to get over his own weird PTSD
In...uhh...everything, you just see ONE shortcomming but she basically set up a good chunk of the Rebellion and later the Resistance. So yeah, she's competent, you just see her in a couple moments of vulnerability in the "original trilogy"
6 months ago
Anonymous
In the original trilogy she does absolutely nothing.
6 months ago
Anonymous
She kills Jabba and manages to form an alliance with the Ewoks in ROTJ
>Leia is more competent than Luke
Leia doesn't do anything in A New Hope. She's a living macguffin. I hate this revisionism of Leia being some badass general. She does nothing throughout the entire OG trilogy.
Luke was mainly the audience POV to the setting and story and didn't actually do much until he blows up the Death Star in ANH. Leia's whole character in that film is that she's initially introduced as a traditional princess who gets captured but then reveals herself to be experienced and willing to participate in combat, taking charge of her own rescue mission
6 months ago
Anonymous
To say nothing of the fact that she was clearly already part of the mission to smuggle out the death star plans in the first place.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>didn't actually do much until he blows up the Death Star in ANH
Luke drives the whole plot of ANH. It is such a traditional hero's journey it is used in schools. This is the worst kind of revisionism. "Don't believe your lying eyes". >Oh, he doesn't do anything until he does everything
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Luke drives the whole plot of ANH
Well no, R2D2 and Obi-Wan does. The plot is initially kickstarted by R2 carrying around the mcguffin then Obi-Wan is the one who reveals the Force and Jedi then takes the lead to go to the Rebellion.
Luke is the protagonist and the one who destroys the Empire's giant superweapon but the actual plot doesn't revolve around him that much, it's not until ESB and ROTJ where the story actually gets driven by Luke.
The finale had some really beautiful visuals. Surprised Marvel Studios did not frick up the special affects for this show like some of other recent projects. I’m really curious how Loki will play a role, if any, in the Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars movies. There is no way we are not seeing Loki again.
Wonder if Across the Spiderverse intentionally foreshadowed Loki's ending or at least was done at the request of Marvel Studios since that film also depicted the larger multiverse as a branching tree
According to the leaks, the movie is actually about the TVA recruiting heroes from across the Multiverse in order to fight the Council of Kangs. Wolverine is their first recruit and is tasked with gathering the others, but he doesn't want to leave his universe to die. He finds Deadpool, who is locked up at the TVA for fricking around with Cable's time travel device, and they team up to save the FoX-Verse while being pursued by the TVA.
The movie apparently also introduces the concept of "Prime Variants", the ultimate versions of each person across the Multiverse. Hugh Jackman's Wolverine is the Prime Wolverine, and Tom Holland's Spider-Man will be revealed as the Prime Spider-Man in The Kang Dynasty.
Like I get that Deadpool has the fourth wall breaks and a connection to the X-Men but I just wish they'd keep him in his own little universe. Having his movie be some sort of epic multiverse crossover just limits what whacky shit he can do. I'd like him if he showed up in Secret Wars and did a few snarky quips but being a lynchpin undermines him.
I've been a fan of Deadpool and his comics, since before all these new kiddies got obsessed with the Ryan Reynolds version. I'm perfectly fine with him being part of the multiversal glue, hell it enhances him now, he's going to be the running commentary to the new MCU and that's great. The so called "multiverse crossover" limits him in absolutely no fricking way, hell there's probably going to be even more "meta" whacky shit now.
Isn't Mobius retired now? Matthew Macfayden is apparently playing the TVA agent named Paradox in DP3 so I imagine he takes up the mantle as the TVA analyst sidekick going forward.
I've been a fan of Deadpool and his comics, since before all these new kiddies got obsessed with the Ryan Reynolds version. I'm perfectly fine with him being part of the multiversal glue, hell it enhances him now, he's going to be the running commentary to the new MCU and that's great. The so called "multiverse crossover" limits him in absolutely no fricking way, hell there's probably going to be even more "meta" whacky shit now.
They have a literal giant Fox logo in ruins at the void where the TVA dumps what they prune, they're going full wacky with it.
>Marvel is truly fricked with the Kang angle based on the Loki S2 finale
What the frick was that guy talking about? When I heard that, I was imagining Kang murdering all his variants and saying "there can only be one" or something. They can just fricking recast.
>Loki becomes Lord of Time and the literal center of the MCU multiverse tree >Time stone was colored green >Green is the color of Time because it's Loki's "color"
FRICKING POTTERY DEAR GOD, hol' up lemme go jam for a bit...
How is it that Loki gets the quality writing while Thor gets the butt of the jokes? Also worth noting that Loki originally auditioned to be Thor and now he's getting all the fan praise. Lovely.
I imagine if Thor 5 connected to Loki's ending and they had Loki series writers, the reunion and final farewell would probably make me tearyeyed. But this is a reach, I think the series doesn't have a huge public following and likely a lot of people are already turned off from seeing another Thor solo flick.
He doesn't want to kill her. That's literally the biggest reason, which if you decide not to acknowledge the simping, you can digest it as avoiding so much as a single death from any of his friends.
Loki of the tales exists in comics, but they get to do whatever they want instead of being tied to a chair, and their powers are much more meta (eg. "this is how a story is supposed to go") than time warpy.
That being said, since they just decided to show off what was happening instead of telling us explicitly (not a bad choice IMHO), we don't know if he is actually tied to the chair, or what he can really do.
tl,dr; They are bother reality warping gods that can probably do whatever they want, they are as strong as each other.
Thematically, it works if he's stuck there because now he has a throne that he never had to steal (Odin) or usurp (He Who Remains), but it is burdened with glorious purpose.
In a better world, Loki would have been the only series out post Endgame and MCU would have just let the movies rest, making Loki the hype train for NWH, a better Love and Thunder, and Deadpool 3.
>In a better world, Loki would have been the only series out post Endgame and MCU would have just let the movies rest, making Loki the hype train for NWH, a better Love and Thunder, and Deadpool 3.
Scaling back down to 1 or 2 is reasonable, but just stopping altogether is moronic. If you want to make people miss something to build hype, just dial back down on solo movie crossovers to make everyone coming together for the next Avengers more meaningful.
>Stopping altogether is moronic
Unfortunately I'm inclined to agree mainly because execs would never allow the hype train to stop. Still, post-Endgame could have happened with less bad decisions. Disney + is a good source of goodbad decisions where Loki wouldn't have the same impact if it were a 2 hr movie, but Moon Knight would have been better if it was. There's also a frickup in focus where it's either gods or multiverses being the central theme and because MCU's trying too hard, they end up failing and looking like they're obsessed with hype culture and cameos.
Overall, it's the promise of a shared universe that really makes a lot of these disappointing. Weird to think that Loki and Wandavision shared some thematic similarities, differing in occult vs sci-fi, and yet the sci-fi show was less convoluted compared to the mediocre conclusion of Wanda's arc in MoM and the meta clusterfrick of what may or may not be the future disappointment that is Agatha and its constantly changing titles.
>Stopping altogether is moronic
Unfortunately I'm inclined to agree mainly because execs would never allow the hype train to stop. Still, post-Endgame could have happened with less bad decisions. Disney + is a good source of goodbad decisions where Loki wouldn't have the same impact if it were a 2 hr movie, but Moon Knight would have been better if it was. There's also a frickup in focus where it's either gods or multiverses being the central theme and because MCU's trying too hard, they end up failing and looking like they're obsessed with hype culture and cameos.
Post-Endgame MCU's problem is really that they just stretched themselves too thin with so much content which led to audience fatigue but I don't think the quality is completely down the shitter as everyone keeps parroting, the quality is 50/50 as it always has been (people tend to look back at the MCU with rose tinted glass and forget that shit like Iron Man 2 or Age of Ultron weren't exactly praised when they came out).
Like Quantumania and Secret Invasion was shit but GOTG 3 and Loki are praised as "the best thing the MCU has done since Endgame"
With the time slipping failing to solve the problem after centuries of trying while upping his power level completely off the scale, he's both Madoka and Homura.
episode 5 was the only good episode of season 2, first four episodes he was running around confused, the finale was unearned twist after unearned twist. Episode 5 was the only episode with coherent narrative
For me ep 2 was the weakest but episodes 4-6 were great. I think the biggest flaw is the series going through the trouble finding a place for Renslayer after the Chicago stuff.
The yggdrasil shot was clever, other than that. This entire season felt pointless. I wanted wacky time adventures with mobious and loki. I wanted miss minutes to have some sort of end to her story.
For me it's not pointless if you view it as Loki's journey rather than a worldbuilding series, which it technically is but lining that up with the convoluted lore of time travel and multiverses in the scope of MCU and Deadpool 2. Still, I agree with Miss Minutes and Renslayer and by extension, that actor guy who defected, as seemingly missing an ending for themselves.
That or an off screen violent death which is more fitting, but then you also get Miss Minutes not receiving a harsh punishment because her core system AI is still needed.
Yeah what the frick happened to Brad? The last we saw of him was episode 4 where he gets enchanted to prune Renslayer, then the enchantment wears off and that's it.
In terms of quality I'd say that Daredevil has higher highs but lower lows, it had the novelty of being the first mature MCU series and season three was so compelling that I was hyped by the finale but at the same time the dogshit season two and Defenders miniseries are necessary viewing which sours the experience while Loki is a tighter and more compact show.
Their similarities are that they're both great series that had great endings and the only Marvel show of their respective streaming networks that actually utilized their episode counts well.
If I were to compare it with anything, I'd compare it to a much more child-friendly Legion. Like
Can't compare the two. Daredevil's a street level vigilante series with human drama. Loki's sci-fi with existential drama.
said it's the story of a guy having an existential crisis about who and what he's supposed to be and ultimately gaining cosmic power at the price of effectively leaving the setting
If I were to compare it with anything, I'd compare it to a much more child-friendly Legion. Like [...] said it's the story of a guy having an existential crisis about who and what he's supposed to be and ultimately gaining cosmic power at the price of effectively leaving the setting
If there was a series to compare Loki with, it would either be Umbrella Academy (TV) or X-Men DOFP. Maybe WandaVision too.
>Episodes 1-4: WE HAVE TO FIX THE LOOM >Episode 5: The loom is broken >Episode 6: frick the loom lol
Could they really not have structured this season a bit better? The loom is such a lame concept to have consumed an entire season.
S1 had so much story progression and momentum, every episode going new places which drove the story and the characters forward.
S2 just goes around in circles and wastes time with an ensemble cast standing in a room until the final 2 episodes where they actually had a story they wanted to tell
I think the point of the WE HAVE TO FIX THE LOOM episodes is to instill a sense of apocalyptic dread and then hitting the audience with "welp, our first two solutions can't save the world" which makes it all the more helpless. This maximizes the kind of finality they show where Loki's left with out-of-the-box choices that either ends with Sylvie dying or becoming he who remains. The rest of the episodes are just so we'd have some reason to care about Loki's friends.
The entire season revolved around fixing the loom to handle the growing multiverse. The finale has Loki replace the loom with himself. It was direct and consistent.
>The entire season revolved around fixing the loom to handle the growing multiverse
I know, that's what annoys me - you don't need 5 hours to tell that story if you aren't going to do more things in that amount of time.
S2 could have been over in 3 episodes with no value lost
I think the problem with this (and a lot of modern series), is that it feels like it's like a 24 episode series, that was then cut down to a 90 minute movie, then padded back up again to 6 episodes by a different writer.
There's no time for character growth outside of Loki and maybe Sylvie. This means we can only care about the story... which is ultimately pointless. Renslayer and Miss Minutes get their story weirdly cut off at the end and stuttery Kang feels completely pointless (at best an exposition character... when we already have an exposition character).
I enjoyed it but it's like going out for a meal when you're hungry and your main dish turning out to be 3 ultra sickly chocolate truffles. Enjoyable and you may not even feel like having anything more after it, but you want more than just a dessert from dinner and it leaves you hungry once the sickly feeling is gone.
>is that it feels like it's like a 24 episode series, that was then cut down to a 90 minute movie, then padded back up again to 6 episodes by a different writer.
I kind of view Loki as one big 12 episode miniseries, the ending really did wonders in tying the whole show together and I appreciate the first season a lot more now knowing where Loki's arc was going to go and end.
I don't think so, HWR is still dead as Loki chose to take up the mantle during the point in time when the loom was about to blow up, which happened after HWR died.
The TVA's personal timeline is effectively unaltered. HWR created the TVA, Sylvie killed him, then Loki takes over just before everything would've blown up otherwise.
Maybe for the Avengers Kang movie Loki will like project his consciousness into another variant self so he can have an avatar participating in the plot, and they'll repeat the 'Vision casually hands Mjolnir to Thor' bit to sell him being legit.
He is literally told "you want the big chair, make the hard choice" and he does even if he doesn't want the chair.
Its hard to think of anyone more deserving.
Short version: Loki realizes the only way to save the multiverse without killing his friends (specifically Sylvie) is to manually keep the TVA and the multiverse in check, becoming a god in a traditional sense for the benefit of mankind and, in a twisted sense of irony, found his glorious purpose of being an almighty god with no one knowing or worshipping him, save for the few people at the TVA.
Surprisingly, it felt contained and focused. Like if you watch it as a Loki development series, it fricking delivers. Not flawless as a full show, but still so enjoyable as a sci-fi show with not a lot of subplots. Also the jokes feel so subtle that I forget to acknowledge they're jokes because it fits in a surreal dry humor way.
I hope Marvel won't ruin him with destruction of the multiverse in Secret Wars. Let Loki watch over everything and if you want Loki in the movies, make it like kid Loki's story for the rebooted universe.
it's basically an extended Rick and Morty episode without the ultraviolence and most of the self-aware humor that stars the Ant-Man cast. also it's a totally conventional rebels vs. tyrant plot instead of a twist on a sci-fi concept.
Yeah, the actual "heist" is just Kang telling Scott to grab some shit for him and try to not die or he kills Cassie. At least it leads to the one good trippy scene from the movie.
I actually liked it
And goddamn, they didn't held back in the special effects parts. Way better than a lot of their movies.
The part where he grabs all those timelines, and keep walking to the throne while fusing them with his cape is cool as shit. And the tree part is damn good too.
I don't know why or how he gets that much power tho, when Sylvie kills Kang, he was sent back to the TVA, so he wasn't there when he gets killed. There's no explanation on why he gets his powers I think that simply because he learns how to control his time slipping it's kinda an asspull
wait, if the the temporal loom destroyed every alternate timeline except for the main one (and by extension, those who belongto it), then why it didn't killed Loki when everything was being shredded around him?
I mean, he himself is a variant from the main timeline
Was because he was pushed into the future of the TVA from beyond the end of times?
Imagine some greedy executive making Thor show up to make stupid jokes, or grab Loki out for wacky adventures. I love some humor in the MCU, but would they be capable of respecting this ending for the character?
Imagine if both Thor and Loki could've developed their own fully realized version of Godhood at the same time.
WTF would a fully realized Thor even look like at this point?
the only way this works is whats been mentioned before with a divided attention trick where loki's in a new bod, and we can get some agent of asgard, or journey into mytery shenanigans, but i wouldn't turn my head for those unless they really take their time or they show an actual different approach to it.
i am so fulfilled by this because it took the meaning of those stories already and gave it an end fitting for this version, so it would all feel like retreading the same ground.
>So Loki is stuck here forever? We'll never see him interact with anyone ever again?
Yes but someone with control over time and the ability to project illusions should be able to leave and return or at least appear to pretty easily if necessary.
Yep, especially when he was pulling the ropes, it doesn't seem like much but it's all just green screen and ropes, how the frick did he figure out his facial expressions?
Wow, I was not expecting it to end on the shot of 616 being the literal low key on the keyring of all the multiverse
I loved how they ended up tying it back to Norse mythology with the multiverse branches forming into Yggdrasil
Same. Loved it. This is the kind of subversion I live for
I'm still vaguely annoyed they assigned the MCU a perfectly sensible earth number, and then later tried to retcon it into 616 for what I have to assume are marketing department-driven reasons
>"People only want to watch the REAL Marvel! You've got the most money going into you out of anything attached to the IP, do you want to be a sideshow or the main event??"
It doesn't matter because the MCU and comics take place in different continuities (that means they exist completely seperately and aren't in the same multiverse at all). 616 in Marvel terms just means "main universe".
Spiderverse did something similar, Peter B. Parker is said to come from Earth 616 but he's obviously not the exact same Spider-Man from the comics.
this is demonstratably false as there are occurences of comic 616 characters talking about the MCU universes
A VERSION of the MCU exists for the comics to access but it's a completely one-way relationship. Earth 1howevermanynines is a COPY of the MCU.
The real MCU takes place in a separate multiverse that can't affect or be affected by the events that happen in comics. Because nobody working in non-print industries ever wants to have to know what happened in a fricking print media tie-in.
First part is true, it seems there’s a Marvel comic multiverse and a Marvel entertainment Multiverse which is why number designations overpap. They fixed that second part in Spiderverse 2, Peter B is from Earth 616-B, and since that movie also confirmed its in the same multiverse the MCU. Marvel Studios is letting Sony play ball more with crossing their stuff over with each other now, and 616 Peter is Tom Holland I think they felt the need to clarify.
It's so funny that Feige hates comics and despite being in control is making them much worse (all while claiming to be an extremely big comic book fan)
god thats so moronic. Makes everything 10x more confusing just because they want to be the "main" universe, when it affected literally nothing to just go by the designation they were already assigned.
Didn't that movie use the comic designation for the MCU? Earth-199999?
Wasn't the MCU 1616?
they call themselves 616 but the MCU(which has been mentioned comics wise) has a different designation outside of itself
>that means they exist completely seperately and aren't in the same multiverse at all
In Gwenpool Dr Strange acknowledges that there's a movie about him in another dimension played by Benedict Cumberbatch. It's a retcon.
Nope they didn't. Spiderverse respects the universe numerationi by explicitily showing Peter B Parker comes from 616B. From there it's assumed all the other characters come from their B dimensions. 1610B, 66B, etc
But why B? Why not just use another number?
Spider-Verse is cool, and I’m fine with it doing that. Marvel Black personmatic universe however….
199999 is a mouthful. They shouldn't have used 616 but retconned it to something more palatable
You don't get it...199999 is the comic universe in the MCU and 199999 is the MCU in the comic universe. They're interchangeable. 616 is basically the core of the cosmic multiversal tree in that multiverse. So comic 616 and MCU 616 are not the same.
They call the MCU 199999 in Spiderverse 2 though. I know Marvel has Megaverses and Omniverses to spererate canon but if they'd called it something like 626 (cheeky Stich ref) from the start it wouldn't be have to be so convoluted.
We need to see what the official connection between Spiderverse and MCU is going to be because remember that one is Sony-verse and the other is Disney-verse
Narratively speaking, they're the same multiverse.
You can't have them throw characters from one to the other, and make characters comment on what happened in the others' movies, and still say they're 2 different, disconnected things.
I wish they'd make up their mind about the universe designation numbers tho.
>"Narratively Speaking"
ok now you're just moving the goal post. Sony and Disney are "in bed together" but pretty sure their coordination is as good as the three different directors for the Star Wars sequels (that was a joke in case you didn't get it). Sony has their Spiderverse and Marvel has the "Loki-verse" now...until they state that the Spiderverse and the Loki-verse are one in the same then yeah fine. But currently they could be two separate multiverses with different universal number designations. Bother with actual worthwhile plot holes instead of poking holes where there are none and calling them plot holes.
Nothing will happen.
I can't believe reddit is still crying about this, 616 being the main universe makes sense
616 is another number used to symbolize THE BEAST OF REVELATIONS.
Though it is of course not as common as 666.
>People only want to watch the REAL Marvel!
You're heavily over-estimating the importance of the comics in the mainstream consciousness. Stacy and Brad don't even know that the main comic timeline is 616. More likely the MCU is considered within the company to now be the MAIN continuity, and the comics merely a story resource to occasionally mine, so someone who did know just decided to take the numbering for the movie-verse.
>ignore the Chudfrickistani
Jesus, I have forgotten this place is called Cinemaphilemblr
no, gb2 /misc/ chud
god shut the frick up mass reply Black person
>episode immediately starts by turning victor's pretty horrible death at the end of ep4 into a running gag
I mean it's the MCU so I guess I'm not too surprised but they had a pretty effective horrific death there for a while.
Did he cum inside his own butthole?
So, how was it?
Surprisingly soulful ending.
It's the Marvel show that doesn't end with a big CGI fight
Meh
Kino, ignore the Chudfrickistani contrarians who have Omni-man's dick down their throat. "OH LOOK MARVEL AND DC HAVE PEOPLE WHO LIKE IT LEMME SHILL FOR IMAGE COMICS TO BE A FRICKING CONTRARIAN" pretty much that. But yes, Loki ending was pretty Kino
i see the 720, is there a 1080p?
this was peak. marvel, take notes
Kino is back on the menu
Do you think Loki will appear in Deadpool 3 since the TVA plays a major role in that film?
No, despite taking control of the timelines, Loki seems to be stuck there (wherever that is) and not interacting with the TVA
Loki replaced the loom. He is an analog solution to a digital problem.
Loki will get Thanos'd by Deadpool
Sylvie did everything wrong, and deserves to be put through a timeloop where she gets shoved through a rusty sausage machine over and over again.
What's the big finale, and what's the stinger?
Loki becomes the god of time and stories, personally managing the multiverse and stops the TVA from being destroyed. Mobius retires and visits his original family. No stinger although they reference the events of Quantumania and how it's already been dealt with (the Kangs are not aware of the new TVA yet)
I'd ask you to tell me if Sylvie finally fricking gets punished for everything she did, but I know she won't in the current MCU.
she gets told that her actions fricked everything, but she's still not particularly repentant
Not only is she told that everything is her fault, but she also works at a McDonalds for the rest of her life. I don't know what else bad you want to happen to her.
>McDonalds
oh god true, that and never scoring with the only person who loved her must be punishment enough
>Loki becoming an actual overseeing god and embodying an iconic Norse myth tree of life
>Sylvie just goes back to being a mid human with mid human wants and needs
I'm just glad Sylvie didn't steal the major ending spotlight.
See, the thing is Sylvie genuinely seems to like working at McDonalds. It’s not quite selfcest but it’s something.
Wish they just used a non brand. It's so jarring to see it there, especially with Mobius saying his lines at the dine-in like he was given a Truman Show script.
If you'd spent all your life living at the edge of apocalypses, McDonalds is probably easy.
Get raped.
> although they reference the events of Quantumania and how it's already been dealt with (the Kangs are not aware of the new TVA yet)
when
When mobius was asked if any of the kangs know about the TVA yet, and he responded that there was a variant causing problems in a 616 (main marvel universes) adjacent realm (the quantum realm) but it was dealt with (by antman)
c'mon, man, pay attention
the final report Mobius hands in before he heads to check on his timeline, something along the lines of
>black woman: any news on the kang variants?
>mobius: the one in 616 started some shit but they handled it on their own
Right after Miss Minutes is reintroduced.
It is implied that the TVA now exists solely to prevent Kangs from developing... yet do not simply prune them?
Is it implied that it's an infinite job?
Although I guess if that's the case their whole existence would be assembling infinite people to stand outside Kanglet's house and vaporise him as soon as he's born.
I guess in the multiversal spread between He Who Remain's death and Loki taking over a bazillion Kangs had existences that scattered them over time at various power levels?
And so TVA is still variant-hunting.
As part of the whole "maintaining free will for all" sentiment that Loki is sacrificing his existence for, they are allowing Kang variants to exist and live peacefully, unless they try to start some multiversal conquest shit, at which point they will step in and deal with them.
The leaks/rumros say the TVA are trying to assemble a superhero team from various universes to deal with Kang, this is where the "Wolverine/Tobey Spider-Man are the main protagonists of Secret Wars" rumor come from.
>TVA are trying to assemble a superhero team from various universes
I hate this
It's the easiest way to introduce the x-men and fantastic four to the mainline universe without starting over again
You didn't like What-If's Multiversal Avengers?
As long as they're called the Exiles I'm happy.
>TVA are trying to assemble a superhero team from various universes
So a fricking Justice Incarnate?
The TVA now prevents Kangs from getting power, thus causing a Multiversal War. But several Kangs came together and started a Dynasty to protect themselves from the TVA. Similar to Rick creating the citadel of Ricks in rick and Morty.
Loki holds the multiverse in his hands, Kangs don't know about the TVA yet and the End of Time where all the pruned stuff lands is the remains of the TVA way into the future, so they will get destroyed one way or another.
x-men
Loki breaches the 4th wall, kills Feige and all the Disney diversity hires in charge and becomes the new MCU honcho
>End of S1 foreshadowed Kang being a problem
>S2: NOPE, Kang is totally irrelevant, multiverse is collapsing because that dumb b***h Sylvie's grudge nearly totalled the entire multiverse
What the frick was the point of S1's cliffhanger if Loki ends up having no antagonist other than time itself? Other than to hype up future movie plans at the time I assume are in shambles right now.
They also could have kept existing going post HWR's death if they kept pruning branches. They were admittedly popping up way faster than before but they could have expanded operations to keep pruning branches.
See, I don't understand their logic there. If you know reality will end and everybody will die, why would you refuse to prune branches at that point? If the only way to save 2% is to kill 98%, it's still better than 100% dying.
>See, I don't understand their logic there. If you know reality will end and everybody will die, why would you refuse to prune branches at that point? If the only way to save 2% is to kill 98%, it's still better than 100% dying.
It'll work out. Everyone already knows the Multiverse Saga will end with the MCU soft rebooting so they can properly introduce the X-Men.
The TVA in general seems like a really incompetent organisation for one hyped up to be able to allegedly offscreen Thanos, when their goons can't even keep hold of the street urchin version of Loki. And in general the MCU is just awful at breaking their own messaging.
Take Thanos. He's deranged and his population culling plan is supposed to be the horrific delusions of a lonely man with a messiah complex and sunk cost fallacy. THEN Eternals came along. Made clear that Celestials have a whole other morality balancing act where they see it as right and proper to sacrifice planetary populations so the celestial hatching out can go on to create galaxies full of life or whatever. Celestials mature by feeding on the lifeforce of civilisations. EARTH had a Celestial, and in the movie the return of life is enough for it's Celestial to start hatching.
So in a roundabout way and probably completely unintentionally given his stated justifications and the fact that nobody even mentioned Eros until his cameo at the end of Eternals, Thanos SAVED Earth from destruction nobody there could have seen coming.
>Thanos SAVED Earth from destruction nobody there could have seen coming.
only postponed it. Even without the return of the snapped, population would have grown and eventually the celestial baby would have finished gestating
>hen their goons can't even keep hold of the street urchin version of Loki
Anon, did you just miss HWR's entire speech at the end of last season where he explained how he's responsible for everything that happened?
And thats without even touching on the fact theres already been shit like Vision!Ultron jumping universes with the stones.
Where were they for the actual multiversal threat?
I don't have enough faith in the MCU to assume that shit will ever be explained, but I did wonder if the Watcher is like-supposed to be a really high level TVA operative or some shit. Or for that matter, where all the other Watchers who were hanging out with Stan Lee fit into it all.
If we're talking about multiversal threats, let's take a moment to remember that canonically nothing and nobody has stopped Dormammu from doing whatever he wants except for the Masters of the Mystic Arts and their wards. Can you imagine Kang, any Kang, picking a fight with Dormammu? homie's opening move is to start subsuming a reality. The frick are the TVA going to do about something like that? For the sake of argument I'm going to assume they deal with Thanos by just time travelling to grab the stones first but Dormammu acted like Dr. Strange's time stone trick was the first time anyone ever pulled that shit on him
Frick Sylvie too, b***h was more the ultimate villain of the MCU than Kang himself
>Can you imagine Kang, any Kang, picking a fight with Dormammu?
Funny you bring that up since the rumored plot of Dr. Strange 3 has Stephen going up against both Dormammu and the Council of Kangs
I can only imagine it ending like Thor realising the gods of Omnipotence City are scared shitless of Gorr, because so far the MCU has done less than nothing to convince me any Kang can beat the Ant-Man family, let alone the most powerful onscreen cosmic being introduced by the MCU so far
because this ending has proven that there is another way that results in far less casualties
>If the only way to save 2% is to kill 98%, it's still better than 100% dying
And the show's answer to that is that it's better to die fighting to save the 100% than to accept that sacrifice
ok Eren
>See, I don't understand their logic there. If you know reality will end and everybody will die, why would you refuse to prune branches at that point? If the only way to save 2% is to kill 98%, it's still better than 100% dying.
Exactly, I felt the show executed this aspect poorly. When there is an existential threat to your universe it doesnt make sense in risking taking everyone down
The point is that if there's any hope of an alternative good ending, you should fight for it. Instead of self-defeatedly accepting the lesser of 2 evils from the get go.
"Kang said that more Kangs will destroy all the timelines anyway" isn't compelling to preemptively destroy all the timelines themselves, when Loki could instead protect the timelines while the TVA can combat the Kangs.
Sylvie's choice wasn't wrong just because the timelines were being destroyed by the guy she killed having a timebomb planted, and Loki finally agreed with her to stop fearing HWR's threats, disarm the bomb, and face life as it comes.
Reminds me that I never watched Quantumania. If I watch it now, would knowledge of Loki S2's lore improve or do nothing for the watch experience?
Do nothing. Quantumania has a post credits scene of Loki and Mobius seeing Timely at the exhibition for the first time, to tease Loki S2.
>The Kang trilogy consists one Loki S1, Ant-Man 3, and then ending with Loki S2
kek, the controversy with Jonathan Majors really fricked up the hype train. Maybe Kang really is meant to be a C-Lister pretending he could ride with the big boys.
Marvel can simply recast. If that allergic to the idea then they do what Secret Wars already did in the comics by having Doctor Doom ursurp Kang as the main antagonist.
If only, but Ant-Man already screwed that potential solution over with his army of cheering Kangs. And then of course there's the racial part of them not wanting to recast a black actor because of the Rhodey-Perlmutter incident.
>And then of course there's the racial part of them not wanting to recast a black actor because of the Rhodey-Perlmutter incident.
I thought they explained that with the Skrull reveal?
Well they can't do "Kang's a skrull" that easily.
Don't bother. You don't need to know anything about Loki to add anything to your knowledge about Quantumania. In fact, the most likely outcome of watching Quantumania after Loki is probably going to be disappointment for the alleged multiversal threat having absolutely no way to deal with ANTS
Hey, ants are fricked bro
>The point is that if there's any hope of an alternative good ending, you should fight for it
>You should ignore the guy that won the multiversal war, has been maintaining the multiverse's timeline indefinitely and knows how to predict and control outcomes so well he orchestrated some beyond his own death in linear time
Nta but I mean.
I feel like if there is REASONABLE DOUBT you can't or can do something, there is a valid argument for trusting the actual experts. Instead of doing the temporal equivalent of drinking homeopathic elixirs to cure your stage 3 cancer because you think radiotherapy is a scam
Look, I get it, it's a superhero show that isn't Legion-level bleak so they're always going to choose the optimistic ending. All I'm saying is no matter how you look at it, Loki's leap of faith will ultimately result in Kangs being released to become the new major villain of the next Avengers movie. Although if they jettison all the Kang plans? Lmao, Loki will have been right about everything.
>Sylvie's choice wasn't wrong
Frick you Sylvie, you had NO plan to solve the timelines collapsing and NO right to keep guilt-tripping Loki into simping for you
Fair enough. I think someone just really liked the aesthetics of angels that are also machines, and wanted to make a point about them being not so different to demons given what happens when they don't have the Father around to purify them or whatever
You might be surprised. We were children once too, you know, and there's still a big audience for DEEPEST LORE videos. I'm not saying it's every child, I'm just saying someone might point it out.
Andor is a classic case of too little, too late. Yes, it was good. But after the other offerings I honestly can't blame anyone for not giving the show about seemingly trying to elevate a nothingburger character into a leading man a chance.
>We were children once too, you know, and there's still a big audience for DEEPEST LORE videos. I'm not saying it's every child, I'm just saying someone might point it out.
Ah frick. I was just looking up Loki scene uploads on Youtube to see the comments and I'm immediately swarmed with LORE DISCUSSION: THIS CHANGES THE MCU videos.
Lore autism is eternal. I don't know whether to take that with optimism or sadness, but it is what it is.
I don't mind it existing. I just find it annoying that there's more than a couple dozen content creators manifesting it. The worst part is these content creators and nerd sites can't stop sensationalizing with the recurring "changes the MCU" phrase.
At least Rogue One fans received SOME form of acknowledgement.
This might have actually been a good thing, considering the Jonathan Majors controversy and a major complaint of the S1 finale was that it felt like a tease for the movies rather than a proper conclusion for the show so it's nice that S2 mostly dealt with the characters of the show and leaving Kang or whatever the big threat is for the next two Avengers films.
Oh, don't get me wrong I'm no Kang fan. I'm just saying the end of S1 was not only frickin' pointless, but also continues the trend of the MCU accidentally making Kang out to be a chump by giving him all these offscreen feats-and then having him job so hard that he can't even fricking show up in the show that teased him
>I'm just saying the end of S1 was not only frickin' pointless
The Kang are still around, they say that at the end.
Quantumania Mentioned
The second is supremely OK, which makes it super high quality by disney + standards... but it is absolutely not the season that the first season's finale was hinting or moving to. It's either a case of jonathan majors scandal requiring them to rewrite the show (unlikely, he's actually in it quite a bit?) or more likely the impossibility to tell a satisfying story when you need the actual war and climax of the kang story to take place in 10 other movies.
Could have been bullshit, but the writers/director said they explicitly didn’t rewrite or reshoot anything regardless of the Majors drama. So what we got was what was meant to be.
Blame the actor playing Kang
No, Kang is still a problem, Loki didn't "delete" him from his multiverse, Kang is now the BIG problem because he's the one causing the timelines to end at the foliage of the Multiversal Tree, Kang is now an inevitability, everything Thanos wanted to be, Loki is the beginning of Time, and Kang is the end of time. Now how will the MCU react to this, we'll see.
Why do we no longer get huge threads when episodes drop?
Cinemaphile live action threads are dying, probably fpr the better
There is always Cinemaphile its been more Cinemaphile than Cinemaphile for a while
Damn that sucks. I think Cinemaphile live action threads are way comfier than Cinemaphile ones.
I don't want to go to Cinemaphile. Last time I was there it felt more Cinemaphile with an added layer of pretentiousness.
Probably for the best Cinemaphile live action threads are slower. Means less shitposting usually.
I like Cinemaphile because there is less shitposting. I get that people are free to express what they want, but having other post complain about israelites is repetitive.
Yeah. Cinemaphile is pretty much the most bearable populated board in the site. But it loses sight of its original purpose at times and it eventually becomes the pop culture board.
The Marvels > Loki S2
shit lokending tbh.
Go be an Aunt Tom somewhere else, Monica. Stop apologising for irresponsible white women.
I was busting loads to Brie's breasts, Teyonah's thighs and Iman's booty in the theater.
Planning to see the movie later this week, any choice scenes I should time my climax to?
after the first fight with the villain when they're training their switch powers and Monica is running around in short shorts
Bettany is ready to WHITE that sexy negress
Your movie flopped, caroltroony
I'm too tired to understand this complex shit.
It's funny to think everything happened because Hulk took the stairs
heh
kek
Oh hey callback to the very first Thor movie
Loki went from being the initial main villain of the MCU to the literal god of the MCU, it's a nice alternate arc to what happens to him in Infinity War
I wonder if while sitting in that chair he can at least witness whats going on in the universes he's holding onto. I'd like for him to at least have some infinite TV and not go insane from boredom.
When and why the frick doesn’t the Living Tribunal ever step in in the MCU? Do these writers not know he exists?
He makes a cameo in Loki S1 (a statue of him was at the end of all time) and Multiverse of Madness. He was supposed to appear in Infinity War where Strange would have summoned him to judge Thanos for his crimes during the titan fight and Thanos would have pulled some move to get himself paradoned but it got cut.
Stop making shit up. The statue is there but the Thanos part is bullshit.
>“[Kevin Feige] wanted to make sure we didn’t lose the sort of psychedelic aspect of the ‘Starlin-verse,’ where people travel inside their eyeballs and things like that,” said Markus. “And so we stuck the Living Tribunal in the movie. [As] Thanos and Doctor Strange came to blows, Doctor Strange blew Thanos’ mind and sent him through the mindscape.”
>“[The] idea was that [Thanos is] sort of zipping through the universe being presented with all of his many, many crimes,” added McFeely. “So bodies are being thrown at him, he lands and things turn into bodies, hands are grasping at him, and it’s just really kind of grim. And at the end he gets dumped in front of the Living Tribunal who judges him guilty. It was great.”
>Despite being high on the sequence, the decision was ultimately made to cut the character from the script, with Markus stating: “When you introduce the idea of the Living Tribunal, it does open up a whole new era. I don’t know if my grandmother would understand that. Also, if that guy exists, why is Thanos a problem? Just have him smack him around a little bit.”
https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2019/08/thanos-was-almost-judged-by-living-tribunal-avengers-infinity-war/
>Strange would have summoned him to judge Thanos for his crimes during the titan fight and Thanos would have pulled some move to get himself paradoned but it got cut.
Nah, they would just punch each other into his dimension and he would glare at them, which they sort of did in Multiverse of Madness anyway.
So who's the real god of the MCU?
I don't even understand what loki did
He took HWR's place as the guy managing the timeline (without pruning any branches)
No matter how much the upgraded the loom, the sacred timeline was growing infinitely so there was no way to stabilize it, which was according to He Who Remain's plan. Loki was out of options until he figured out he had to suffer the burden of his glorious purpose and attempt to rebuild the multiverse better than it was. There's a leap in power there, but it's implied that he got complete control of time at that point and centuries worth of physics knowledge.
the art of storytelling is lost on you, even the MCU which already overexplains
The sacred timeline exists to prevent there from being an infinite number of Kangs that create a multiversal war that destroys everything. It's basically a designer universe by He Who Remains where everything is planned out. The hard choice and the least evil option.
The loom exists in conjunction with the TVA to maintain the sacred timeline. The multiverse naturally wants to branch out and the TVA prunes the alternate realities to keep things manageable. The loom itself is a failsafe for if the TVA drops the ball. It's primary purpose that the TVA know about is to weave the branches they don't clear into the sacred timeline. But really it's a failsafe. If there are too many branches (because they aren't being culled properly) it'll get overloaded and obliterate everything except the sacred timeline.
After the TVA find out that they are all variants they have a little civil war. In the end the survivors don't want to prune universes anymore so they need to enhance the loom to handle all the extra timelines that are being created. They try and try but discover that no matter how much its capacity is increased the multiverse is growing infinitely and will always overload the loom no matter how they enhance it. The only way to avoid the problem is to not kill He Who Remains and to continue pruning universes.
Loki wants another answer besides just taking on He Who Remains role and going back to the old system of pruning (killing) universes to maintain the stability of the sacred timeline. He opts instead to destroy the loom and release the infinite multiverse which He Who Remains warns will threaten multiversal war and the end of everything.
After blowing up the loom we see the various branches start dying, most likely the first signs of what He Who Remains warned about. So Loki's solution is to take a seat at the end of time and manually maintain the branches himself with his magic and time slipping powers.
>manually maintain the branches himself with his magic and time slipping powers
i just realized what that actually means jesus
>loki using his time powers to go into different realities to make sure the universe doesn't die. Infinitely.
he's like the sorcerer supreme but above that.
Loki has no power anymore, so I wouldn't call him the god of the MCU. He exists now only to ensure free will exists.
Feige also can't really be called the god of the MCU because he doesn't really even exist in-universe. That part of She-Hulk was meant to take place in a universe where everything in the MCU is fictional and just a series of movies/shows, like ours.
>NO GODS OR KINGS, ONLY MAN!
We might see how fourth wall break jokes will interact with the multiverse rules in Deadpool 3.
Apparently the FoX-men's inconsistent timeline and constant retcons is going to be an actual plot point in the movie because it's an unstable hotzone to the TVA. Also pic related set leak photo implies the 20th Century Fox universes got pruned by the TVA
I want them to acknowledge that the Phoenix is why the X-Men's world keeps ending. Seriously, have you noticed EVERY FRICKING TIME they bring in that moronic firebird, they frick it up? Frick the Phoenix. All my homies hate the Phoenix
not gonna lie, that would be neat
I would laugh my ass off
Loki is more like Atlas holding the MCU together then a god but whatever fits your definition.
Neither
Spider-Man
What happened to Miss Minutes?
OB rebuilt her so she's still around
When the power to the TVA was briefly cut two episodes ago, she was apparently factory reset.
They intentionally factory-reset her.
Got laid and calmed down.
Got cancelled on Twitter and fired.
>watching capeshit in 2023
capeshit as a whole isn't dead and gone, there is just far less good capeshit now. Loki is an example of the capeshit that is still good.
Supposedly
>the TVA is hunting Kang variants
this is still part of HWR's plan
Somewhat
Kino.
>2E_to_3E_change.webm
>not having him trapped beneath a snake that drips acid on his face
The Alioth comes along offscreen and breathes gently on his face every now and then. Bingo. It's snakelike enough, right?
Oh and uh, Sylvie is his wife who catches the poison in a bowl because reasons. Fujo spiting reasons
Big pecs Loki incoming
So there's no way there will be a season 3, right?
The head writer said they're leaving the characters open to appear in other MCU stuff like how the TVA play a major role in Deadpool 3
It's a better manifestation of Yggdrasil than what they had before.
What'd they have before? The realms in a tree shape or something? Also it's a very neat concept but some of the Norse mythology alignment in the MCU just makes shit odd that like, random vikings knew this shit that'd happen in the future or whatever.
In the Thor movies, it seemed more like the realms under Odin's domain. Then kind of started ignoring the tree and realms when they introduced the cosmic side in GOTG.
Nta but yeah, the impression I initially got was the 9 realms were different dimensions, especially given the scope of what the dark elves wanted to do. Then later movies like Ragnarok and Infinity War made it seem like they were just planets. At this point I don’t care anymore because it;s obvious the writers don’t.
FUN FACT: According to the writer this was the only MCU project as of late with zero reshoots.
Now that's impressive.
I think the only big MCU reference was a constellation.
Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead are incredibly efficient directors, Moon Knight also didn't have any reshoots and it's what got them the Loki S2 job. Now they're going to fix Daredevil Born Again. I could see them being chosen to direct Secret Wars.
Best investment Feige has made in forever, their work on scifi/horror projects (Spring, Resolution, The Endless) already was top notch indie shit but they dont frick around when it comes to excess involvement in their projects
>fix Daredevil Born Again
Taking a structured legal drama that builds to its superhero stuff and splicing in more fight scenes doesn't sound like fixing.
You say that as if people weren't hyped for Daredevi for the fights and don't constantly complain about the superheroes not suiting up for the majority of episodes in the D+ Marvel shows.
I'll say this though, it would be a shame if they completely ditched the focus on Matt being a lawyer because he really sucked ass as one in his own series and it's funny that he was only shown actually being skilled as a lawyer in No Way Home and She-Hulk.
Daredevil S1 took 13 episodes to give him a costume and it was great. How many times has studio mandated action at the cost of story been a good thing?
I agree on you on the studio mandated thing but I distinctly remember the Daredevil costume reveal was criticized and most ended up preferring his traditional black outfit.
A vocal few always had problems with the suit, but that's besides the point. The fact is he didn't suit up until the last episode and the series didn't suffer for it.
I had no problem with them building up to the costume in Season 1, but I was annoyed when they ditched it after the Defenders miniseries and he never reclaimed it from Bullseye or Gladiator's workshop in S3 and just wore the black tracksuit again instead. The whole of Season 3, I was eagerly waiting for Matt to take back his DD suit, and it never happened. Or even for for Bullseye to take HIS suit, paint it black, file the horns off and put the target on the forehead, though that would've been a little more out there. Still loved the season, but damn, two big missed opportunities there.
It's a superhero show. Let him wear the damn super suit.
Even more fun fact: Loki S2 cost $141 million to make while She-Hulk was $225 million
>She-Hulk was $225 million
Where the frick did all that budget go?! I
Turns out making a CGI studio work triple overtime and then delete everything and start over several times is expensive
Loki S2 only had a very limited number of set locations in the TVA which they kept recycling. Made the whole place feel so tiny. How do they go between a control room with a futuristic cityscape and an underground basement with a giant loom in the void of space without more variety of locations in between?
I'm guessing it had something to do with the SFX artists passing out from overwork.
Quality over quantity, I'm actually glad Loki mostly stuck to a bunch of great looking physical sets instead of resorting to the Volume.
I found OB annoying until I realized he was short round, then it all made sense
Was Mobius' story about pruning a kid, who would eventually kill thousands, at the Black Sea supposed to be a reference to a character from the comics?
>Was Mobius' story about pruning a kid, who would eventually kill thousands, at the Black Sea supposed to be a reference to a character from the comics?
I think the implication was that he had to prune one of his sons
That's a cool conclusion but there's really nothing that would hint at that other than maybe them playing at a beach
My assumption was that's where Kid Loki came from, but he probably would've mentioned that much assuming Main Loki should know about variants by now. It's honestly kind of dark and weird that they'd use that moment in time, even if it's meant to be a pleasant and easy callback. Loki is looking for help from his friend while he's at his most brainwashed and untrusting. Thanks to Mobius' nature it works out but, it's still hardly heartwarming to hear your bestie say "I wasn't strong enough to kill a kid but thankfully my buddy knew the right thing was to de-life them."
On that note it's weird Loki gets sooort of a goodbye with both Sylvie and Mobius but neither of them feel proper. The "main cast" before they get time-sent to their origin (or die while their origin remained I guess) know just about nothing outside of their main plan which goes out the door the moment Loki does, and he barely gives them any explanation or closure. Just see you later suckers I've got my answer have a nice life. I was expecting some last minute Sylki or Lokius kiss or something (the latter hardly likely I know) but within this episode and for the most part this season neither would've felt earned so it's just like, goodbye the two closest people I've known since being a variant. Have fun sorting this out emotionally while I sit in a chair for eternity.
I'm surprised by how two marvel products releasing on the same day had so much difference in quality
Loki’s biggest fear is being alone. and yet, he gave himself to an eternity of isolation to protect not only his friends but the whole multiverse. He is made of love. the most selfless being to ever exist. Although it breaks my heart to think of him by himself, this is a beautiful arc. From a character who only thought of himself, to one who is always caring for and protecting others. And he can feel his friends around him, see the lives that he allowed them to have. also, it’s very rewarding to see him finally understand the burden of glorious purpose. understand what it means to have a throne, to have power. understand what it means to sacrifice, to not make the easy choice, to find purpose in others, and to love and protect. Loki's character arc is right up there with Tony Stark and Steve. Fitting for one of the very first MCU characters
Now watch future MCU movies show him regularly visiting the TVA to eat donuts and get reports on Kang variants.
It's not like he's just sitting in a green void forever
He can see the timelines he's maintaining
>Loki is all alone, sedentary on his throne, for all eternity, but gains satisfaction from watching the lives and stories of others
he just like me fr
In spite of all the Science Fiction convoluted stuff, this scene and most of the final episode really endeared me to the series. I expected passable and I got feels and a sense that my time getting invested wasn't a total waste like what happens with most time travel plots.
I'm going to be pissed if none of this ever gets brought up in the movies. Like obviously there will be a massive war which fricks up the tree, so maybe let Loki show up and have a scene with Thor or something.
Loki could appear in Thor 5, the upcoming movies are apparently retooled to tie to the overarching story a lot more like Dr. Strange 3 will apparently involve the Council of Kangs
Man I just want another chance for him to see his mom again like how Thor got the chance in EG
Ironically, from where he is, he can see all different possible variants of his mom. And considering she has certain gifts of her own...
They will reference him like they referenced Quantamania this episode
The way time travel and how multiverses work has been retconned how many times now?
Time travel works differently in different contexts
A time machine is obviously going to function differently than a rock channeling raw energy from the creation of the universe
I was honestly expecting some kind of Kang related teaser.
I'm glad there wasn't one, because frick Kang. I don't want him to be the next 'Thanos'. This felt like Loki dealing with that bullshit.
I love the irony of Reinslayer being the last ever person to be pruned and die in The Void.
>and die
What makes you think that?
So does Victor Timely's variant work for the TVA now? I can't imagine they would let someone that valuable wander off on the Earthly Plane.
Yeah she controlled Alioth before HWR wiped her memories. The monster didn't eat her, it's her guard dog now.
>commanded Alioth
She was the general not the mastermind.
>So does Victor Timely's variant work for the TVA now?
No, they went out of their way to show that young victor never received the TVA handbook in this timeline. If he was still there, they would have shown him in one of the post-ascension TVA scenes. OB still made him the co-author for the second edition of the handbook.
That's the original Victor. His variant doesn't just disappear a la Back to the Future logic. He's alive when Loki becomes the God of Stories.
>If he was still there, they would have shown him in one of the post-ascension TVA scenes.
Not exactly. Where would they put him? The Council of Kangs would be after his ass on MCU-616 or any of its branches to recruit and/or use him for nefarious means.
Regarding Victor Timely
So none of the MCU Kangs are named "Nathaniel Richards" and are all extensions of Timely or is he born in different time periods under different names and origins?
We have no fricking idea. Timely was also included in HWR's plans as he directly talked about the events that happened during Loom's failure, Timely being given the book was part of his plans to help Loki gain an understanding of his time powers. It could as easily be he put his own clone at one point in the timeline to do this
It's a bit unclear but I think Timely was just a variant that came from 19th century, the Kangs in Quantamania are definitely not extensions of Timely considering their technology levels. Someone also pointed out the Council of Kangs were using Reed Richard's portal from MoM so the F4 connection might still be present.
>Someone also pointed out the Council of Kangs were using Reed Richard's portal from MoM so the F4 connection might still be present.
If they stay true to the comics, both Reed and Kang got their time travel technology from Doom.
>It all comes back to Doom
Poetry.
Victor is an orphan. He was just a baby Kang variant HWR planted on the Sacred Timeline for his plan.
Confirmation that S2 is the end for the Loki series
https://www.cinemablend.com/interviews/loki-season-3-what-loki-writer-eric-martin-says-continuing-story
Good call tbh, I've had many reasons to dislike this show (and by many reasons, I mean all of Sylvie's screentime) but I respect them just ending the story instead of dragging it out and going full Agents of SHIELD
So how are they going to inevitably unwrite the S2 finale so that loki can return in a S3 or avengers movie?
Most likely TVA Loki would stay as he who remains and they could bring back 616 Loki by having him fake his death like old man Loki and the TVA won’t go after him if he chose to see his brother again.
If there were ever a Loki season 3 then it could be about the Loki variant that Loki prune to the end of time because he still exist. I don’t expect them to do anything with the Loki remains unless the multiverse is under threat or something but it seems that’s the end of that Loki’s story.
Considering Loki can now 'control time slipping' he can literally jump to his body at any point in time and them come right back to where he is king of time at a whim
not-Sylvanas kills the Lich King Loki
Great finale for the series and the character himself. Doom Patrol still had the better ending this week though so I guess DC won something for once.
How did Doom Patrol end? I loved the show but after a while the team repeatedly falling off the wagon and having therapy sessions got old to me, and I dropped off when they let Madame Rouge join even though she was fricking irredeemable
You'll want to watch and power through season 4. The first half of it has some smattering of fun here and there but otherwise a slog. Back half is quite enjoyable and the finale hits the emotions like a fricking truck.
So what happens is
>Immortal big bad turns out to be the drama reject from Rita's play that Rouge accidentally dropped into the time vortex. She fricks off at the end after the were-butts help her feed her ego over a thousand years. The team get back their longevity in the end but it's too late and the Doom Patrol disbands
>Rita accepts that she's not perfect and passes on and reunites with her S3 boyfriend in the afterlife
>Larry decides to go for it and just live again for the good times and love and turns into a sun or something with Kieg and Mohinder
>Jane comes to terms with her daddy rape trauma, the underground is no more and the personas unite under her as one personality they call (K)aleiedoscope. She goes on to paint art in space with a comic book character for a girlfriend
>Cyborg gets his groove and tech back and does outreach for kids at the robotics club he and his bestie run
>Rouge comes to terms that she'll never be an entirely good person with heart to hearts from Rita and Cyborg so she decides to go burn down the Ant Farm with a flamethrower
>We see Niles again through visits to the past. Cliff is the one who crippled him.
>Cliff made it home to daughter and grandson to live with them but he realizes he hasn't got long left. Big bad gave him a time crystal to hang in his car that shows him Rory's future ending on a moment that links back to his own pursuit to reconnect back with his family. Cliff shuts down in his car with the two of there and tells Clara it's okay. This scene by itself makes S4 worth it.
>they let Madame Rouge join even though she was fricking irredeemable
It's part of the theme of the show that she isn't totally bad. She's great in S4 too.
Thank you. That last scene does sound nice. There's a lot I love about that show, it's just that after a while the theme of shitty people giving each other free passes got on my nerves-especially Cyborg's b***h girlfriend.
I'll probably never have the full context for it when I get bored enough to catch up, but for what it's worth it does sound like a fitting ending and I'm happy the show happened at all even if I didn't like how the Cliff/Jane relationship was so harsh compared to the comics. It wasn't for me in the end, but I can appreciate it for what it is.
I cried like such a b***h at the final scene. It was a good episode all the way through, I laughed my head off at the funeral and loved the balance of humor with sadness there. But that ending was a gorgeous gut punch. Doom Patrol has often been a shaky show over the course of its run, but this reminded me exactly why I always loved it.
How do the concepts of branched timelines and alternate universes overlap? Does each universe have its own infinite timeline variations? Is each stable timeline considered its own dimension/universe?
>How do the concepts of branched timelines and alternate universes overlap?
The longer a branched timeline remained unpruned, it becomes an alternate universe so yeah timeline/universe is interchangeable in the MCU.
>Does each universe have its own infinite timeline variations?
We see during the view of the sacred timeline that even branched timelines have their own branches sprouting of them
Now they could bring back 616 Loki to the MCU by having him fake his own death like with old man Loki and the TVA won’t go after him this time.
he got a fate worse than death, frick the timelines
Also, I was watching that scene thinking "is it becoming a World Tree", and they did it.
Fricking Kino
Surprised neither Loki nor Mobius got an happy ending.
I was expecting them to turn him into the god of stories somehow, didn't expected the kino
So are still keeping Kang or what?
No.
Recast is the most obvious route
>Hunter B-15 was Verity Willis
What the frick, why?
Did you notice Mobius' real name might have been a reference to Donald Blake?
They never mentioned his last name and he wasn't a doctor, we are already told of a Donald Blake existing in Thor
He's not exactly 1:1 to Donald Blake but I do suspect that was an intentional nod
In Captain America The First Avenger, we see the Tesseract hidden behind a mural of Yggdrasil. Now Loki is Yggdrasil. One day, the Norsemen will make a mural of him and give it the Tesseract, which he's always wanted. Thereby creating another Ouroboros loop. Could the Time Stone also be green because Loki, the god of time, usually wears green?
>Loki is Yggdrasil
...what actually happened in the finale? I don't get it. Throughout the MCU I've always had a dismissive opinion of Loki's magical abilities compared to Dr. Strange and even Thor after a while. Now suddenly he can manipulate fate on a multiversal scale? Was it just walking into the Loom explosion like Dr. Manhattan, his timeslip powers evolving, or something else? Could ANY Asgardian do that?
I mean I understand WHY it's happening. It's an emotional climax to Loki's first encounter with He Who Remains where he accepts that with great power comes great responsibility. I just don't understand WHAT is happening, the process involved here.
Loki's powers were evolving drome exposure to the TVA which was the intention of HWR. HWR wants to stop ruling because he's tired of maintaining the sacred timeline. Loki decides that he'll pick a 3rd option and resuscitate the multiverse branches which would be otherwise dead with his magic.
If you say so, I get HWR chose Loki as his successor because he has spunk or whatever, completely missed that TVA exposure was actually changing his powers. Again I must ask: Why only LOKI? Could Thor not have the same thing?
Not that I would trust Thor with the management of the multiverse, otto be fair.
Shhhh give Sif her moment, she's been cucked out of literally everything else from Thor's dick to her friends to her homeland to being anything close to impressive among gods now the MCU has introduced actually godlike gods like Shang-Chi's dragon and Moon Knight's Egyptian gods...
No seriously think about what the Asgardians look like to the other pantheons, they're like the North Korea of deities. Once-feared conquerors kept in a gilded cage by a dying old man deliberately nerfing his people.
The impression I got was that HWR didn't actually seriously consider Loki to become his successor but rather used him as a failsafe in case Sylvie managed to kill him, everything (even beyond his death during the events of season 2) was preordained and arranged so that Loki would come back to that moment with his timeslipping powers and save him from Sylvie to maintain the status quo (otherwise everything is destroyed).
The problem with his plan was that he didn't expect Loki to pick a third option by replacing the temporal loom with himself and reforming the multiverse so he still died anyway.
If that's so, we're back to square 1. Although on reflection, if episode 5 is to be taken at face value the recipe for supreme multiversal godhood seems to be god powers (any) + mastering time slipping. And the Loom's engine exploding is just a way to get to where you can timeslip your magic to set things up how you want them to be.
>If that's so, we're back to square 1
Not completely, the big impact the show makes is that the multiverse now exists and the TVA are no longer pruning timelines and are instead more like their comic counterpart in that they're essentially SHIELD for time travel, which may tie into the Avengers movies with the whole "assembling superheroes from different universes to create a team" thing.
I meant more in terms of understanding how Loki actually accomplished what he did, but I mean yeah. Although I have to wonder how shit like Dormammu, Eternity and the Watcher ties into all this.
That doesn't make sense since HWR could have killed Sylvie anytime he wanted by freezing time. From what I could tell he just didn't want to remain stuck at the end of time anymore and push the burden onto Loki.
HWR picked Loki because he's got tons of potential, and the megalomania to be manipulated into taking over.
>I mean I understand WHY it's happening. It's an emotional climax to Loki's first encounter with He Who Remains where he accepts that with great power comes great responsibility. I just don't understand WHAT is happening, the process involved here.
Go watch episode 5 again. This show is fiction. WHAT is not important, WHY is all that matters.
I was genuinely unsure how much of that to take literally and how much as metaphor for Loki getting in the right frame of mind to take control of the time-slipping. That and infuriated that after all the bullshit she got way with, Sylvie is somehow still allowed to be in a position of moral authority by the narrative. Somehow.
What Happened?
Simple, Loki has mastered time, he understands how it works, how it flows and can control it (he can stop it at will) Could ANY Asgardian do it? maybe, maybe not, Odin was stupid powerful and it is implied he got tired of it and stopped. We see in Love and Thunder that Asgardians are literally tied to entities like fate and eternity, so yeah Loki a Jotun raised in Asgard and trained in magic has ascended beyond his godhood, He's now up there with Fate, Eternity and the other beyond cosmic entities as Time itself. By creating Yggrasil ( Multiverse) he effectively is the one responsible for the existence of the MCU as we know it. Now we know why the time stone is green, etc. Now can go back and whenever you watch anything MCU related you know that instead of a "Sacred Timeline" It's all happening in Loki's Yggdrasil MCU, that's what happened.
>We see in Love and Thunder that Asgardians are literally tied to entities like fate and eternity
It's so funny that we've gone from Odin explicitly saying Asgardians aren't gods, won't live forever and humanity is catching up to them soon in Thor 1 to everyone acting like Asgardians have always been gods, will live indefinitely if not killed in battle or something, and for some reason the Odinforce is the only thing that can unlock the way to Eternity.
Just, the sudden swerve from relatively modest advanced aliens to embracing the comics portraying Asgardian royalty as the Super Saiyans of gods.
which again it's a GOOD THING, the "we're just advanced aliens" schlock took a lot of what made this part of Marvel special. Glad they're finding a "happy medium"
>we're just advanced aliens
Unfortunately it seems like a popular cop-out to including divine beings into an expansive world. Nu-Doom did this and I was disappointed. But at least Moon Knight seems to be treading the "gods aren't all aliens" bit. Don't know what the Ghost Rider lore is of Agents of Shield though.
>Nu-Doom did this and I was disappointed.
Eh did it really? Jekkad was supposed to be a paradise realm and Davoth was the actual god of the setting who turned 99% of the population into soulless husks in his mad quest for immortality (and actually fricking achieved it for an elite 1% living in Hell's capital)
Really I'm more bothered that Nu-Doom kept retconning in it's own lore to subvert expectations or something.
>Agents of Shield
Unfortunately the Spirit of Vengeance is framed as an "extradimensional being" using the rider as a host
I think it's just more of NuDoom being framed as being less-religious in its roots. Then again, the writing was on the wall ever since Doom 3.
>Unfortunately the Spirit of Vengeance is framed as an "extradimensional being" using the rider as a host
Praying for a retcon. Also kekked at being reminded that at one point, people thought Mephisto was going to be the post-Endgame big bad if not Galactus.
>Praying for a retcon
Eh, it feels like it gets retconned every few years at this point. The Johnny Blaze one is still very much acting like a hell spirit and fighting demons.
At this point I just wish GR was a spinoff character from Constantine. I love the lore of every generation having Spirits of Vengeance hosts but in the grand scheme of Marvel-extended universe history, it kinda fizzles out its significance.
And I wish Spider-Man could trade places with Wonder Woman so he can escape the cycle of cuckoldry and she can snap necks in peace without someone pretending she's some kind of ambassador of peace or whatever, but life is suffering.
>people thought Mephisto was going to be the post-Endgame big bad if not Galactus.
Would've been better choices. With Mephisto, you'd be able to open up the more supernatural side of the Marvel U. With Galactus, the cosmic shit.
I'm not complaining! I'm just saying it must be insanely jarring for, I don't know, a hypothetical child that only just heard of the MCU and is marathoning everything in order to see Odin be contradicted so hard between like 3 movies
pretty sure a "hypothetical child" will not care about that one line the old guy said two movies ago compared to the "DID YOU SEE THE COOL THING THE THOR DID WITH THE HAMMER AND THE LIGHTNING AND THEN HE DID THE SPIN AND IT WAS SO AWESOME"...children / younger audience aren't looking for the "nuance" in things like us older grizzled neckbeards and manchildren are.
Ahh, reminds me of the Andor situation where it received quiet praise from fans while everyone was busy with Asohka, Obi-Wan, and Mandalorian S3.
kids don't care about character development they only care bout the cool stuff that happens on-screen. Kids who watch Loki will remember how "cool" he looked at the end sitting on his throne. They won't give two shits about the moral nuances of his "sacrifice" and "deep character developments and so on.
That implies kids actually understood the sci-fi jargon. But at least the ones who watch and rewatch the series trying to understand it on their own will have a blast with their first experience with time travel shenanigans that aren't as straightforward as Endgame's.
>Just, the sudden swerve from relatively modest advanced aliens to embracing the comics portraying Asgardian royalty as the Super Saiyans of gods.
And that happened when the movies started failing with general audiences. Funny.
both are true at the same time, Odin meant not "Capital G" gods who have the inherent right to step on everything.
At the beginning of the episode he says he wishes to know all Ouroboros and Victor know, they tell him it would take "centuries" to get that information. The very next scene we see Loki building the machine they needed, controlling all the TVA machines and giving specific instructions to every single person to avoid any and all possible mistakes. Later on he confronts HWR and reveals they've had the same conversation multiple times before.
It's obvious that between the last two episodes Loki has actually spent centuries studying physics, engineering and time itself both from a scientific and a magical perspective as he manages to both control time slipping and stop time at will.
Oh, it's the magical equivalent of that "if you build a supercomputer that knows the position of every atom in the universe and all it's movements, you can predict the future with 100% accuracy" thought experiment, except with actual god magic nudging the future along. I was confused because I thought that was merely the information they needed to figure out the ACTIONS the Loom needed to take to fix everything not the PROCESS of actually fixing it. Now it all makes sense. Thank you.
My interpretation was (based on what we see on the show)
>Loki meets Old Loki
>Discovers that he can do a lot more with his magic powers
>newest season has him starting to use them more
>He Who Remains either awakens something in him or straight up gives him the same control he has over time (he says he paved the way)
>He Who Remains is the one who wants the loop to continue until Loki doesn't do something different, to do that he makes sure to turn Timely into him every time
>Loki control over time at some point becomes just as good as He Who Remains, only he has the power of a god
>tries everything, for most of the episode you are fooled into thinking the hard choice Loki has to make is destroying all the other timelines, but by the time he talks to Mobius for the last time he had already realized that with his control over time he can keep the multiverse alive, only he has to take give up on everything for it
Could be
i had the same thought about the green of the time gem. Would be nice if they tie it that way.
>Series finale just dropped.
Already? Was just three episodes?
six
>You are alone. And you always will be.
WHY SIF WHY
Woke garbage Loki should be an evil fricker not some goodie good
This was a areally REALLY good ending, I even dreamt about it last night holy shit! I'm amazed at just how good it is, it's so rare these days for any fictional entertainment to be now.
So does this mean Season 2 is actually worth watching?
I though the first season was just alright and then eventually I wrote off every disney+ show they crap out after getting burned one too many times, but from the fact that I've not really seen any mass complaining about this new Loki being shit either here or on mainstream social media (beyond Sylvie apparently being a shit), it seems that there's nothing offensively bad about this like there usually is.
It is. Seems like they knew what they wanted to do from the get go so both seasons feel like halves of one proper story cut in two. The way S1 ended made it feel like it turned into the Sylvie OCDNS show but altogether the focus very definitely Loki. For once a Disney show named after a character actually does have said character be the real main character of the show.
So what's gonna happen with the Loki that Loki sent to the Alioth place?
That Loki was sent back to the Temporal Loom room, fullfilling the time loop.
Loki pruned him at the moment he needed to be pruned so he would appear in the Loom room after Mobius did the thing at the end of the gangway.
I don't understand how many people I've seen who completely forgot the plot of episode 1, and got confused about Loki closing that loop.
I wonder if the shot with Loki pulling the spaghettis to himself while hes walking up the stairs is meant to reference this
That's the last time we see Thor do something dramatic without any jokes, probably
Spaghettimes
Has anyone else mentioned or does anyone else feel like the Loki show took 2 seasons to give Loki the same basic character arc that he had in movies.
Loki, a selfish self serving prick gradually learns that life isn't all about him and his wants, over comes his issues with abandonment and feeling like an outcast (rekindles his relationship with his brother/ makes friends at the TVA), ultimately forced to sacrifice himself for the good of those he cares for.
Him slowly dragging the time line cape looked cool, him becoming the core of Ygdrasil looked cool. But it's essentially, to me at least, the same damn story. A story I had to watch 2 seasons of to see again.
You go through the trouble to make a show about variant Loki where you introduce a number of variant Loki's and they all have the same damn story where they get killed off being buttholes or they sacrifice themselves for the greater good (Old Loki). If the message is you can't escape your fate...is that the message?
I think I was hoping to see this "different" variant Loki who had new experiences take a different path, for better or worse. This ultimately comes off as an extremely elaborate way to write him out of the MCU universe after they had already killed him off. BUT, maybe I'm speaking to soon, and I just need to wait for the next season of Disney+'s hit series Loki.
To your first point: No. It only took one season for him to become Movie Loki.
It was the in the second season, over the course of thousands of years, that he surpassed his movie counterpart.
I don't think that's going to be the last time we see Loki, the last thing left they could do with him is have him reunite with Thor and they finally have closure with each other, which could happen in Thor 5 or Avengers.
Rumor has it that Hemsworth is going to be stepping back from acting soon so he might just be doing what ever contractual things he has left.
Dude did a bunch of genetic tests for a National Geographic series and found out he's predisposition for Alzheimers. Two copes of a warning gene called APOE4.
So unless they get a replacement no more Thor content soon. Which might be great because the directors and writers are clearly just playing dick tugging games.
>win the genetic lottery
>except you get Alzheimers early in life
FUUUUUCK
Not only that, guy genuinely seems super chill and cool as a husband, brother, and father.
From what I understand, he might get it early. But not soon. What happened?
I think they said S2 is the planned final one, actually. I'm pleasantly surprised if so. It ended on a nice high.
One of the main criticisms of the first season is that it was partially sold to fans on the idea of returning to a still-evil 2012 Avengers Loki, who everyone loved as a villain, and then in the first episode Mobius shows him an "MCU LOKI FULL STORY HD" recap video which gets Loki to instantly go through all that development and get to essentially the same place he was in before he was killed in Infinity War.
Point is, I don't think there's much else you can give MCU Loki in terms of an arc. If you keep him as a villain, then he can't really be the hero/protagonist (or at least, Disney probably wouldn't allow it), so you'd have to do a redemption arc of some kind and fix the character's deep-rooted personal issues like the abandonment and shitty upbringing.
>which gets Loki to instantly go through all that development and get to essentially the same place he was in before he was killed in Infinity War.
Disagree, the original Loki was defined by his relationship with Thor. His redemption arc was basically just that he cared for his brother deep down in the end. Show Loki doesn't have that, the point is that he develops relationships with characters other than Thor.
At the start of the series he does join the TVA because he plans to take over it but is constantly blindsided by stuff like Sylvie and Kang, he's a jobber because he's out of his element suddenly being thrusted into the TVA world. By season two, he becomes more experienced and powerful until he ironically achieves what he set out to do at the start of the show by taking the throne of the greatest power but at the cost of sacrificing his relationships with the people he grew to care about.
Season 1 sucked because it was marketed as a Loki show only for Sylvie to upstage him, being better at Loki things than him
A lot of stories do this in general. It's called Trinity Syndrome.
wow it's almost like a protagonist has to go from weak to strong as part of a basic story arc
I honestly think Quantumania suffered the most form this
Quantumania was just a mess. They had five hero characters across three generations. Scott had nothing to prove after Endgame anyway.
He didn’t have anything to prove, but he was dealing with post-Thanos PTSD. I felt like Quantumania was good for Scott’s arc in the same way endgame was good for Tony’s arc. Tony had to get over himself and his guilt, Scott had to get over his own weird PTSD
in what fricking universe is leia competent
In...uhh...everything, you just see ONE shortcomming but she basically set up a good chunk of the Rebellion and later the Resistance. So yeah, she's competent, you just see her in a couple moments of vulnerability in the "original trilogy"
In the original trilogy she does absolutely nothing.
She kills Jabba and manages to form an alliance with the Ewoks in ROTJ
The ones for Guardians of the Galaxy, The Lego Movie, Chamber of Secrets, The Matrix, and A new Hope is objectively false
>Leia is more competent than Luke
Leia doesn't do anything in A New Hope. She's a living macguffin. I hate this revisionism of Leia being some badass general. She does nothing throughout the entire OG trilogy.
Luke was mainly the audience POV to the setting and story and didn't actually do much until he blows up the Death Star in ANH. Leia's whole character in that film is that she's initially introduced as a traditional princess who gets captured but then reveals herself to be experienced and willing to participate in combat, taking charge of her own rescue mission
To say nothing of the fact that she was clearly already part of the mission to smuggle out the death star plans in the first place.
>didn't actually do much until he blows up the Death Star in ANH
Luke drives the whole plot of ANH. It is such a traditional hero's journey it is used in schools. This is the worst kind of revisionism. "Don't believe your lying eyes".
>Oh, he doesn't do anything until he does everything
>Luke drives the whole plot of ANH
Well no, R2D2 and Obi-Wan does. The plot is initially kickstarted by R2 carrying around the mcguffin then Obi-Wan is the one who reveals the Force and Jedi then takes the lead to go to the Rebellion.
Luke is the protagonist and the one who destroys the Empire's giant superweapon but the actual plot doesn't revolve around him that much, it's not until ESB and ROTJ where the story actually gets driven by Luke.
The finale had some really beautiful visuals. Surprised Marvel Studios did not frick up the special affects for this show like some of other recent projects. I’m really curious how Loki will play a role, if any, in the Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars movies. There is no way we are not seeing Loki again.
Wonder if Across the Spiderverse intentionally foreshadowed Loki's ending or at least was done at the request of Marvel Studios since that film also depicted the larger multiverse as a branching tree
A multiverse being portrayed as a tree isn't a unique concept. It's probably one of the most common ways to do it.
At least Loki's has a pretty cool norse parallel. Spider-Man's would have been the web of life or Madame Web's chair
Probably best MCU show, followed by Hawkeye.
What was that Season 1 line again? "Lokis only exist to make other people better" or something?
>Do you think what makes a Loki a Loki is the fact that we’re destined to lose?
>No. We may lose, sometimes painfully, but we don’t die. We survive.
That's one, but I'm sure what I'm thinking of was mentioned by Mobius or Reinslayer.
So I am going to take a wild guess and say Deadpool 3 is about the TVA stopping a FOX universe Kang variant.
According to the leaks, the movie is actually about the TVA recruiting heroes from across the Multiverse in order to fight the Council of Kangs. Wolverine is their first recruit and is tasked with gathering the others, but he doesn't want to leave his universe to die. He finds Deadpool, who is locked up at the TVA for fricking around with Cable's time travel device, and they team up to save the FoX-Verse while being pursued by the TVA.
The movie apparently also introduces the concept of "Prime Variants", the ultimate versions of each person across the Multiverse. Hugh Jackman's Wolverine is the Prime Wolverine, and Tom Holland's Spider-Man will be revealed as the Prime Spider-Man in The Kang Dynasty.
https://comicbookmovie.com/deadpool/deadpool-3/deadpool-3-spoilery-new-details-about-wolverines-mcu-debut-have-been-revealed-a207530/
>Tom Holland's Spider-Man
Why not Miles? He is main lead now in the games.
Miles and Peter aren't mutually exclusive variants of each other even though they use the same hero name.
Reminds me of the weirdness behind Gwenpool where she's not Gwen Stacy but she's a blonde created at same the time as Spider-Gwen
Like I get that Deadpool has the fourth wall breaks and a connection to the X-Men but I just wish they'd keep him in his own little universe. Having his movie be some sort of epic multiverse crossover just limits what whacky shit he can do. I'd like him if he showed up in Secret Wars and did a few snarky quips but being a lynchpin undermines him.
I've been a fan of Deadpool and his comics, since before all these new kiddies got obsessed with the Ryan Reynolds version. I'm perfectly fine with him being part of the multiversal glue, hell it enhances him now, he's going to be the running commentary to the new MCU and that's great. The so called "multiverse crossover" limits him in absolutely no fricking way, hell there's probably going to be even more "meta" whacky shit now.
I wonder if Ryan will add a bit where he demands Mobius sum up the plot of Loki for people who didn't watch it.
Isn't Mobius retired now? Matthew Macfayden is apparently playing the TVA agent named Paradox in DP3 so I imagine he takes up the mantle as the TVA analyst sidekick going forward.
They have a literal giant Fox logo in ruins at the void where the TVA dumps what they prune, they're going full wacky with it.
I wonder if they'll acknowledge the fourth wall time traveling mid credits scenes from DP2
Is he just called the Loki that remains now?
Nah, he's probably going to be called "Time" like "Fate", "Eternity", "Death", etc. etc., or something Nordic referencing Time itself.
Útgarða-Loki
>Marvel is truly fricked with the Kang angle based on the Loki S2 finale
What the frick was that guy talking about? When I heard that, I was imagining Kang murdering all his variants and saying "there can only be one" or something. They can just fricking recast.
Many industry people have said that article was extremely sensationalist.
>Loki becomes Lord of Time and the literal center of the MCU multiverse tree
>Time stone was colored green
>Green is the color of Time because it's Loki's "color"
FRICKING POTTERY DEAR GOD, hol' up lemme go jam for a bit...
How is it that Loki gets the quality writing while Thor gets the butt of the jokes? Also worth noting that Loki originally auditioned to be Thor and now he's getting all the fan praise. Lovely.
>How is it that Loki gets the quality writing while Thor gets the butt of the jokes?
I'd be seething if I was Hemsworth or making some phone calls.
Batista too. He did mention that he was disappointed (as subtle as he could) with Drax's lack of story development.
I imagine if Thor 5 connected to Loki's ending and they had Loki series writers, the reunion and final farewell would probably make me tearyeyed. But this is a reach, I think the series doesn't have a huge public following and likely a lot of people are already turned off from seeing another Thor solo flick.
And it's actually a damn shame, I would be interested in Thor being an embarrassing rock dad to a cosmic star being.
Why couldn't Loki beat Sylvie in a fight after thousands of tries?
He doesn't want to kill her. That's literally the biggest reason, which if you decide not to acknowledge the simping, you can digest it as avoiding so much as a single death from any of his friends.
He probably killed her hundreds of times and realized he just wasn't happy with that outcome either
Comicgays, is this the strongest version of Loki?
Probably, but it's straw power. You control the existence of infinite universes/timelines but that's all you can do, maintain their existence.
Strongest Loki because he hit me in the feels
Loki of the tales exists in comics, but they get to do whatever they want instead of being tied to a chair, and their powers are much more meta (eg. "this is how a story is supposed to go") than time warpy.
That being said, since they just decided to show off what was happening instead of telling us explicitly (not a bad choice IMHO), we don't know if he is actually tied to the chair, or what he can really do.
tl,dr; They are bother reality warping gods that can probably do whatever they want, they are as strong as each other.
Thematically, it works if he's stuck there because now he has a throne that he never had to steal (Odin) or usurp (He Who Remains), but it is burdened with glorious purpose.
I hope he can at least look in on the universes to watch people's stories. He'd be like us, basically.
I mean, sure it's almost all disappointment, but it's better than crushing depression.
Better meta than She Hulk at least.
In a better world, Loki would have been the only series out post Endgame and MCU would have just let the movies rest, making Loki the hype train for NWH, a better Love and Thunder, and Deadpool 3.
>In a better world, Loki would have been the only series out post Endgame and MCU would have just let the movies rest, making Loki the hype train for NWH, a better Love and Thunder, and Deadpool 3.
This is exactly what I was thinking.
>just let the movies rest
Scaling back down to 1 or 2 is reasonable, but just stopping altogether is moronic. If you want to make people miss something to build hype, just dial back down on solo movie crossovers to make everyone coming together for the next Avengers more meaningful.
>Stopping altogether is moronic
Unfortunately I'm inclined to agree mainly because execs would never allow the hype train to stop. Still, post-Endgame could have happened with less bad decisions. Disney + is a good source of goodbad decisions where Loki wouldn't have the same impact if it were a 2 hr movie, but Moon Knight would have been better if it was. There's also a frickup in focus where it's either gods or multiverses being the central theme and because MCU's trying too hard, they end up failing and looking like they're obsessed with hype culture and cameos.
>Moon Knight would have been better if it was.
Eh, a movie wouldn't have given us the kino asylum episode.
WandaVision, Loki, Moon Knight and She-Hulk (with better writers) should be shows.
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Hawkeye should have been movies.
Eternals should have been a show as well.
Ms. Marvel and Hawkeye should have been streaming movie/special presentations.
Overall, it's the promise of a shared universe that really makes a lot of these disappointing. Weird to think that Loki and Wandavision shared some thematic similarities, differing in occult vs sci-fi, and yet the sci-fi show was less convoluted compared to the mediocre conclusion of Wanda's arc in MoM and the meta clusterfrick of what may or may not be the future disappointment that is Agatha and its constantly changing titles.
Falcon and the Winter Soldier is a mouthful. Naming and centering the show around Zemo would have been better.
As a movie it'd just be called "Captain America: SUBTITLE".
>stopping altogether is moronic
Sounds like something marvel would do.
Post-Endgame MCU's problem is really that they just stretched themselves too thin with so much content which led to audience fatigue but I don't think the quality is completely down the shitter as everyone keeps parroting, the quality is 50/50 as it always has been (people tend to look back at the MCU with rose tinted glass and forget that shit like Iron Man 2 or Age of Ultron weren't exactly praised when they came out).
Like Quantumania and Secret Invasion was shit but GOTG 3 and Loki are praised as "the best thing the MCU has done since Endgame"
Looking back, it's strange that Ironman received weak main sequels. His best was in a Capt America movie of all places
A Loki version of this but instead of fire it's disintegration and people turning into paper strips.
For a second there I thought they were gonna pull a Steins Gate 0. So glad they went with Loki becoming a new Yggdrasil
Loki did in two seasons what the Umbrella Academy series keeps milking in 3 or more.
Loki is just Madoka
He's cuter
With the time slipping failing to solve the problem after centuries of trying while upping his power level completely off the scale, he's both Madoka and Homura.
Being Lokuka is suffering
And Miss Minutes is Kyubey
Thirsty female AI was the last thing I expected from the MCU
Missed her episode thread. Did Cinemaphile get horny for her or were the threads just lowkey around here?
I was trying to pim down what this ending was reminding me of and this is absolutely it, damn.
episode 5 was the only good episode of season 2, first four episodes he was running around confused, the finale was unearned twist after unearned twist. Episode 5 was the only episode with coherent narrative
For me ep 2 was the weakest but episodes 4-6 were great. I think the biggest flaw is the series going through the trouble finding a place for Renslayer after the Chicago stuff.
Just finished the ep.
The yggdrasil shot was clever, other than that. This entire season felt pointless. I wanted wacky time adventures with mobious and loki. I wanted miss minutes to have some sort of end to her story.
For me it's not pointless if you view it as Loki's journey rather than a worldbuilding series, which it technically is but lining that up with the convoluted lore of time travel and multiverses in the scope of MCU and Deadpool 2. Still, I agree with Miss Minutes and Renslayer and by extension, that actor guy who defected, as seemingly missing an ending for themselves.
>Renslayer and by extension
Well that last bit seems to be implying she's got some connection to the kangvasion or something
That or an off screen violent death which is more fitting, but then you also get Miss Minutes not receiving a harsh punishment because her core system AI is still needed.
Yeah what the frick happened to Brad? The last we saw of him was episode 4 where he gets enchanted to prune Renslayer, then the enchantment wears off and that's it.
Yeah like what the frick? I expected him to get pruned in the back for poetic justice but instead everyone forgot about him.
...unless Knock Knock. Who's there? Brad. Brad who? :^)
How did they make a show about a somewhat interesting concept this fricking boring.
>he didn't watch the show
loki time shits his time pants and this will revolutionise the mcu going forward
So was it better than Daredevil?
Nothing can ever top ben affleck
Can't compare the two. Daredevil's a street level vigilante series with human drama. Loki's sci-fi with existential drama.
In terms of quality I'd say that Daredevil has higher highs but lower lows, it had the novelty of being the first mature MCU series and season three was so compelling that I was hyped by the finale but at the same time the dogshit season two and Defenders miniseries are necessary viewing which sours the experience while Loki is a tighter and more compact show.
Their similarities are that they're both great series that had great endings and the only Marvel show of their respective streaming networks that actually utilized their episode counts well.
S2 wasn't completely dogshit but if given the chance, I'd just watch the Punisher half of it and then move on to S3.
If I were to compare it with anything, I'd compare it to a much more child-friendly Legion. Like
said it's the story of a guy having an existential crisis about who and what he's supposed to be and ultimately gaining cosmic power at the price of effectively leaving the setting
If there was a series to compare Loki with, it would either be Umbrella Academy (TV) or X-Men DOFP. Maybe WandaVision too.
>Episodes 1-4: WE HAVE TO FIX THE LOOM
>Episode 5: The loom is broken
>Episode 6: frick the loom lol
Could they really not have structured this season a bit better? The loom is such a lame concept to have consumed an entire season.
S1 had so much story progression and momentum, every episode going new places which drove the story and the characters forward.
S2 just goes around in circles and wastes time with an ensemble cast standing in a room until the final 2 episodes where they actually had a story they wanted to tell
I think the point of the WE HAVE TO FIX THE LOOM episodes is to instill a sense of apocalyptic dread and then hitting the audience with "welp, our first two solutions can't save the world" which makes it all the more helpless. This maximizes the kind of finality they show where Loki's left with out-of-the-box choices that either ends with Sylvie dying or becoming he who remains. The rest of the episodes are just so we'd have some reason to care about Loki's friends.
The entire season revolved around fixing the loom to handle the growing multiverse. The finale has Loki replace the loom with himself. It was direct and consistent.
>The entire season revolved around fixing the loom to handle the growing multiverse
I know, that's what annoys me - you don't need 5 hours to tell that story if you aren't going to do more things in that amount of time.
S2 could have been over in 3 episodes with no value lost
I'd argue 4 eps just for instilling extra hopelessness. It's the Renslayer villain arc that feels like bloat.
I think the problem with this (and a lot of modern series), is that it feels like it's like a 24 episode series, that was then cut down to a 90 minute movie, then padded back up again to 6 episodes by a different writer.
There's no time for character growth outside of Loki and maybe Sylvie. This means we can only care about the story... which is ultimately pointless. Renslayer and Miss Minutes get their story weirdly cut off at the end and stuttery Kang feels completely pointless (at best an exposition character... when we already have an exposition character).
I enjoyed it but it's like going out for a meal when you're hungry and your main dish turning out to be 3 ultra sickly chocolate truffles. Enjoyable and you may not even feel like having anything more after it, but you want more than just a dessert from dinner and it leaves you hungry once the sickly feeling is gone.
>is that it feels like it's like a 24 episode series, that was then cut down to a 90 minute movie, then padded back up again to 6 episodes by a different writer.
I kind of view Loki as one big 12 episode miniseries, the ending really did wonders in tying the whole show together and I appreciate the first season a lot more now knowing where Loki's arc was going to go and end.
But what if he has to pee or poop?
If he doesn't eat, he doesn't poop.
He designates one unlucky timeline to be the toiletverse.
Not the Indian Spider-Man's verse!
>it's our timeline
So is HWR still in charge of the TVA? Time travel frickery is annoying.
I don't think so, HWR is still dead as Loki chose to take up the mantle during the point in time when the loom was about to blow up, which happened after HWR died.
The TVA's personal timeline is effectively unaltered. HWR created the TVA, Sylvie killed him, then Loki takes over just before everything would've blown up otherwise.
Do you think Show Loki by the end would have been worthy to pick up mjolnir?
He's worthy enough for me.
Throne Loki? God of Stories Loki?
I’d genuinely like to see someone try to argue he’s not.
Maybe for the Avengers Kang movie Loki will like project his consciousness into another variant self so he can have an avatar participating in the plot, and they'll repeat the 'Vision casually hands Mjolnir to Thor' bit to sell him being legit.
He is literally told "you want the big chair, make the hard choice" and he does even if he doesn't want the chair.
Its hard to think of anyone more deserving.
>Its hard to think of anyone more deserving.
Brad
He's totally worth for now
So will Loki just live forever?
For all time, always
Well he is a god
A norse god. He needs apples to live
Feels weird knowing he and Red Skull are villains that now guard important locations in the MCU
Red Skull got to frick off after Thanos took the stone, and he's currently spreading Nazism across the galaxy.
He's outside time, doesn't need to age
>Loki's sheer will is what's keeping the Marvel Multiverse alive
Loki literally and figuratively carrying the MCU
Can't wait for the sequel: Atlas
He lives outside time, so he will never die until the end of existence
I am dumb may someone explain the ending to me?
Short version: Loki realizes the only way to save the multiverse without killing his friends (specifically Sylvie) is to manually keep the TVA and the multiverse in check, becoming a god in a traditional sense for the benefit of mankind and, in a twisted sense of irony, found his glorious purpose of being an almighty god with no one knowing or worshipping him, save for the few people at the TVA.
why was it so kino though?
Surprisingly, it felt contained and focused. Like if you watch it as a Loki development series, it fricking delivers. Not flawless as a full show, but still so enjoyable as a sci-fi show with not a lot of subplots. Also the jokes feel so subtle that I forget to acknowledge they're jokes because it fits in a surreal dry humor way.
any webm requests?
weird that Invincible thread hit the bump limit before Loki thread has
That's because most of the discussion was b***hing about the female characters.
There was also heated discussion on comparison with the comic
With Loki there is very little to compare with the comics
>He Who Remains
Because people only have positive things to say about Loki
I hope Marvel won't ruin him with destruction of the multiverse in Secret Wars. Let Loki watch over everything and if you want Loki in the movies, make it like kid Loki's story for the rebooted universe.
The multiverse probably won't be destroyed but the main sacred timeline probably will, or at least be rebooted to account for the X-Men.
I wish Loki fricked Mobius
>when his costume changed and the horns grew back
Ngl I pogfaced
Oops wrong image
She QT.
fujos are so fricking moronic it's painful
Is Quantumania worth watching?
No. Absolutely not.
Nah
it's basically an extended Rick and Morty episode without the ultraviolence and most of the self-aware humor that stars the Ant-Man cast. also it's a totally conventional rebels vs. tyrant plot instead of a twist on a sci-fi concept.
>no heist
>no funny beaner
what were they thinking
It would have been so easy to incorporate a heist, too.
Yeah, the actual "heist" is just Kang telling Scott to grab some shit for him and try to not die or he kills Cassie. At least it leads to the one good trippy scene from the movie.
>At least it leads to the one good trippy scene from the movie.
The probability storm was tight, agreed
They watched Ant-Man 1 and 2, got massive concussions and then sat down to write an Ant-Man script.
Never seen anything Rick and Morty.
don't be an indecisive pussy and just do it
Is loki s2 actually good and worth a watch, I remember s1 being better than most of the crap that was pushed out by disney at the time.
its like s1 in steroids, it all clicks as a whole in the end.
I actually liked it
And goddamn, they didn't held back in the special effects parts. Way better than a lot of their movies.
The part where he grabs all those timelines, and keep walking to the throne while fusing them with his cape is cool as shit. And the tree part is damn good too.
I don't know why or how he gets that much power tho, when Sylvie kills Kang, he was sent back to the TVA, so he wasn't there when he gets killed. There's no explanation on why he gets his powers I think that simply because he learns how to control his time slipping it's kinda an asspull
wait, if the the temporal loom destroyed every alternate timeline except for the main one (and by extension, those who belongto it), then why it didn't killed Loki when everything was being shredded around him?
I mean, he himself is a variant from the main timeline
Was because he was pushed into the future of the TVA from beyond the end of times?
Loki developed divine time powers because of HWR, he's immune to the bullshit
If you buy this funkopop you're a terrahomosexual
So Loki is stuck here forever? We'll never see him interact with anyone ever again?
For All Time, Always
>So Loki is stuck here forever?
For all time. Always.
god i hope so, this is such a poignant end.
>god i hope so, this is such a poignant end.
Imagine some greedy executive making Thor show up to make stupid jokes, or grab Loki out for wacky adventures. I love some humor in the MCU, but would they be capable of respecting this ending for the character?
Imagine if both Thor and Loki could've developed their own fully realized version of Godhood at the same time.
WTF would a fully realized Thor even look like at this point?
the only way this works is whats been mentioned before with a divided attention trick where loki's in a new bod, and we can get some agent of asgard, or journey into mytery shenanigans, but i wouldn't turn my head for those unless they really take their time or they show an actual different approach to it.
i am so fulfilled by this because it took the meaning of those stories already and gave it an end fitting for this version, so it would all feel like retreading the same ground.
>WTF would a fully realized Thor even look like at this point?
we saw it, he is Le Dad God
> we saw it, he is Le Dad God
If the MCU is still a thing 100 years in the future expect him to become AI AI-generated
>So Loki is stuck here forever? We'll never see him interact with anyone ever again?
Yes but someone with control over time and the ability to project illusions should be able to leave and return or at least appear to pretty easily if necessary.
Moon Knight, Loki and Hawkeye are the only good series that came out after Endgame. And sometimes even better than some movies too
Personally I enjoyed WandaVision a lot more than I expected.
Why did this series has better special effects than Wakanda Forever?
Ngl, Hiddleston's performance was amazing.
Yep, especially when he was pulling the ropes, it doesn't seem like much but it's all just green screen and ropes, how the frick did he figure out his facial expressions?
>how the frick did he figure out his facial expressions?
He's been playing pretend for 12 years, he's got it down to an artform.
LOKI IS ALL
LOKI IS LOVE
Godspeed, Lokibros.
For all time, always.