>The story came on the most recent episode of the Amazing Spider-Talk podcast, an interview between host Dan Gvozden and writer Cody Ziglar. Ostensibly there to promote Miles Morales: Spider-Man and Spider-Punk: Arms Race, Ziglar gets into his career on both sides of the fence, writing for the She-Hulk TV show and how that got him gigs co-writing the Beyond era of Amazing Spider-Man and eventually Miles and Hobie.
>A lot of that involved working closely with Zeb Wells, the current writer of Amazing Spider-Man and the writer of the issue where Ms. Marvel dies. As Ziglar tells it, the request to kill Kamala and resurrect her as a mutant came from Feige, the president of Marvel Studios.
>“It was funny watching when the whole Kamala stuff was going down,” Ziglar says in the interview. “He (Wells) had told me months before the plan, which was, Feige was like, ‘Hey, I don’t do this very often but, can you please do this to make things in line with Marvel because we have some stuff we want to do with Kamala,’ so he (Wells) was like, ‘F***, I’m the guy that drew the short straw? People are going to be very mad that I have to kill Ms. Marvel.”
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>Ziglar goes on to say in the interview, “I felt bad for him (Wells) because people didn’t know that — she’s gonna quote-unquote ‘die’; it’s comic books, she comes back, of course — but you don’t realize that when she dies and comes back, the Ms. Marvel is gonna be writing her, so I remember when he told me that, I was like, ‘That’s so cool, people are gonna lose their minds. Well, they’re gonna lose their minds because she’s died, but also I think people are really gonna be excited because for the first time an MCU actor is gonna be actively participating in creating the lore of the character in comic books proper.”
>Jokingly, Ziglar recalls, “I was like, ‘Yeah, it sucks for you; I’m glad I don’t have to do that,’ but it was funny watching him get savaged online knowing that he’s the guy who had to answer the call of Daddy Feige to make this sacrificial play.”
>Asked for his thoughts on the revelation, Gvozden said, “I think we all thought that this death was done for brand synergy with the new The Marvels film and that with Krakoa about to fall apart, the timing on when to resurrect Ms. Marvel was closing. What surprised me, though, was that Feige had such a large hand to play over the comics, especially after the prevailing thought was that he was letting the comics basically do their own thing. As a Spider-Man podcaster, what upset me the most about how it was handled was that it disrupted a major Spider-Man story’s ending, shifting the focus away from successfully concluding a yearlong, major story just for brand synergy.”
https://comicsxf.com/2024/04/16/msmarvel-kamala-khan-spiderman-feige-ziglar/
>just for brand synergy
The most surprising thing about all this is that Feige himself cared about brand synergy. Like, how many people even read the comic? Maybe 80 or 90,000? That's a drop in the bucket compared to the actual Ms. Marvel TV show, which didn't even do that well by MCU standards.
Feige is a nerd anon. He's been doing shit like sneaking actors X-men comics since the 2000's. Selling almost nothing means little to him, if anything he's from a generation where selling very little made things cool because they were obscure.
>Feige is a nerd anon
Feige is a moron, if he was a nerd he wouldn't adapt "all new all different" doing that basically killed the MCU
You can be a nerd and have shit taste too, sad but true
I just want to meet the typical paying normie that suddenly drops the show, movie, whatever because the comics they never heard of to that point did X instead of Y that you wouldn't know if nobody brought up.
Now I wonder if the request to make Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver non-mutants came from Feige too (this was 2014 when there was no prospect of Disney getting the X-Men rights).
Maybe not, since they did the same thing to Franklin Richards after the Fox buyout. But who knows.
>people didn’t know that — she’s gonna quote-unquote ‘die’; it’s comic books, she comes back
Funny because everyone called it before the issue came out.
>“He (Wells) had told me months before the plan, which was, Feige was like, ‘Hey, I don’t do this very often but
>What surprised me, though, was that Feige had such a large hand to play over the comics, especially after the prevailing thought was that he was letting the comics basically do their own thing.
Is this fat frick for real, what a lying little coward.
The second part is the other guy
C'mon anyone with half a fricking brain realized what they were gonna do. Nobody was mad because she died they were mad because they were trying to play us like we're stupid
The zoomer twitter brigade was mad, despite all of the people who’ve read comics more than 2 years, easily telling them she’ll be back in no time.
Just goes to show, they never read a comic and can’t be true Kamala fans
To be fair they're always mad
>what upset me the most about how it was handled was that it disrupted a major Spider-Man story’s ending, shifting the focus away from successfully concluding a yearlong, major story just for brand synergy.
The story was shit anyway, it was never going to be good.
These guys are so out of touch. Imagine thinking that the problem was killing Ms. Marvel and not how shitty the story where she gets killed is.
I think the biggest problem here is “ — she’s gonna quote-unquote ‘die’; it’s comic books, she comes back, of course — ”
We know this, they know this, everyone knows this. Yet they still insist on ending stories and events with “___ died, nothing will EVER be the same!”
In an era where comics increasingly choose raising stakes over good writing (see: DC’s biyearly crisis events where the MULTIVERSE is about to COLLAPSE!!), it is quite of to realize that death has been trivialized to the point of no return. It’s comedic when you have all these comics who have to grind their pace to a halt to acknowledge “oh, this homie dead..” and yet we already knew from solicitations that she was coming back.
And instead of switching tones and making more down to earth, character focused stories like a certain beloved Hawkeye run, or more silver age goofy shit, or even just not killing characters, they instead insist on you buying comics labeled the Death of Doctor Strange, or insisting for five years that Wolverines is dead FOREVER!!!! and pick their noses and scratch their heads when Logan comes back and their are five or six fricking Wolverine ripoffs running around, including a damn hulk wolverine and TWO SEPERATE alternate universe versions of yourself running, and well as your mentally ill son, your clone, and her clone.
Best case scenario you turn the revolving door into a plot point like Hickman.
All in all, big two comics are poorly written soap operas; and I am the sucker for caring about the characters at all.
Feigue told them to make her a mutant, wells decided that it meant he had to kill her in ASM.
And people savaged on wells anyways, especially now knowing the run happened because he felt bad about his divorce.
Ziglar is such an insufferable fat homosexual. People like him are exactly why the she-hulk show sucked.
>we need you to synergize to help promote the character that's going to be in our movies
>character still fails in comics despite the effort
Not to mention:
>character still fails in live-action
>character still fails in video games
Now she's stuck with the muties, good riddance. Now stop bringing her into absolutely fricking everything ever again.
and her corpse wasn't even lukewarm before they brought her back to life anyway.
I doubt Feige told them to kill her off, if anything he ordered a mutant reveal. And the editorial decided killing her off and resurrecting her was the right move. Additionally Wells took direct credit for coming up with the concept behind the death during his whole “my editor told me not to go to conventions” spiel.
Article claims that he ordered the kill as well
Guess someone got to listen to the podcast to confirm if that's true or not
>Update
Lowe's previous assertions contradict it being Feige's orders for Ms Marvel to die, and instead being a editorial decision to kill and resurrect her.
See: https://www.thepopverse.com/marvel-ms-kamala-khan-death-spider-man-amazing-spiderman-comics
There will be no saving Zeb's career after this disastrous run.
Doesn't he still have Robot Chicken?
I assume that series SOMEHOW is profitable enough to keep him in business since it refuses to die when a lot of other AS series got canned.
IIRC isn't Zeb working on that Deadpool vs Wolverine movie?
Except ASM is still one of the best selling comics from Marvel. That's how Slott was able to keep on the title for so long.
You're an idiot if you think Wells isn't writing any comics for a long while after his run ends.
His ASM has been the laughing stock since it started basically. Also with how way more successful Ultimate Spider-Man is and how ASM has to be propped up wuth a dozen variant covers per issue its clear that yes the book is doing fine, but it can be doing WAY better if Marvel would let go of there biases.
Even Slott was able to get work after his "disastrous" run that was a "laughing stock" as well and he couldn't keep to a deadline to save his life and nobody liked him. Wells doesn't seem to have either issue. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you shouldn't pay attention to sales and how things have gone for previous writers. You can look at a similar situation with a different outcome. King's run on Batman did well but after the wedding fiasco, sales dropped and he was kicked off the book and had to finish his story through a noncanon maxiseries. So unless sales drop drastically for ASM, Wells isn't going anywhere and he's not going to have trouble finding work after this run. But maybe his next writing job doesn't do well and then he goes back to obscurity.
Dude played the company man. Marvel won't just fire him after taking all those bullets for them.
They'll totally fire him.
they didn't fire Nick Spencer for being the Company man in regards to Secret Empire where he took the fall for Breevort and Alonso's ideas.
they will just give Wells a book he either wants to write again and not cancel it even if sells like shit or give him one of the other to big to fail books at Marvel
I fricking hope they fire him.
not really, and he can always go back to x-men, where he was legit good (Hellions)
Did feige say make her a mutant with energy powers or did he explicitly say kill her and revive her as a mutant?
Because they could have just made her a mutant without killing her
Feige needs to fricking retire already. He has proven that the MCU's success was a fluke with all the god awful decision he has been making since Phase 3.
It wasn't even a fluke on his part. The reason the first phases worked was a combo of the Marvel Creative Committee, and Ike micromanaging the productions so that they could appeal to as wide of an audience on a reasonable budget. After Feige got promoted mid way through Phase 3, it's been him steering the ship without Perlmutter and his guys breathing down his neck.
>the Marvel Creative Committee
Kinda doubt it on this part, bendis and I think millar were on it.
I swear that months ago, there was an article that said the killing part was just to build hype due to how shit kamala's sales are.
>Ms marvel was literally the least watched show in the MCU and the Marvels was already projected to do bad
>still force the mutant shit in the comics
>The Marvels bombs so hard that Marvel stopped plans for captain marvel 3, Eternals 2, and any project that wasn't a guaranteed hit
>Kamala's sales are worse than ever and her comic is entirely focused on "the mutant struggle"
What a fricking terrible and avoidable decision
Just make Kamala a Guardian of the Galaxy, that'll make her popular
the funniest shit about this is that the massive bad PR sunk the viewing numbers on their actual MCU products. If they hadn't done anything there would still have been positive hype but this killed every hope they had for selling it
Is Feige going to demand Mr. Fantastic to die and be brought back as an Hispanic too?
He already did with all the eternals and nick fury, we'll see
Yep the Eternals were literally all killed to change their genders and ethnicites. And nobody ever commented on how fricking cringy it is to suddenly turn a while male character into a female black character. No psylocke "this is blackface" comments this time?
They should make Johnny black
Killmonger and Johnny should team up
Your mom should get BLACKED
No, since there’s little to no info on Reed’s mother, they retcon Evelyn as Hispanic with a Hispanic maiden name.
This shit makes me sad honestly. I don't even care about Ms Marvel, but I think it's so tragic that people can be trying to create art, and some moron in a suit comes in and tells you that he can make more money if you do something moronic in the work of art you're creating, so he makes you do it, and then all his projects bomb and lose money for the company anyway. It was all for nothing.
This has been the case in media forever and it never stops sucking wieners. So many movies, games and cartoons have been fricked in the ass by suits interfering.
Bob Iger himself is the one who ruined Twin Peaks. Imagine botching that so colossally, and then feeling comfortable running one of the biggest companies in the world, and making decisions about Disney and Marvel and Star Wars.
Remember when Dan DilDio fricked up the Beast Wars sequel and then got the keys to DC Comics for like, 20 years? Yeah...
Wasn't that expected? And comics have been so shit, people dropped almost every book. Imagine Eternals which already didn't have a huge fanbase, not a lot of people must have bothered with whatever happened at this point.
>Remember when Dan DilDio fricked up the Beast Wars sequel and then got the keys to DC Comics for like, 20 years? Yeah...
MFW it's Dan Didio's fault Rhinox became evil.
Modern comic books are not art
big 2 comics aren't art. ips owned by billon dollar corporations cannot be art.
That's not true, they certainly can be. Major studios owned by Disney and Warner Brothers Discovery and Comcast all produce and distribute great films every year. Large companies do produce art, but when they try to direct it themselves, it shows.
There have been plenty of characters that have been turned into mutants over the years and Marvel has been doing synergy since the beginning of the MCU. And I doubt Wilson gives a frick at this point.
gaygie also was the one that forced marvel to change quicksilver and scarlet witch to non mutants, also he's the one that "forced" marvel to make Sam Wilson captain America
>also he's the one that "forced" marvel to make Sam Wilson captain America
Marvel was always going to go that route at some point, quite frankly. If anything, he's the one "forcing" them to KEEP Sam Wilson Captain America even though they've really run the course on it. There really aren't any stories left to tell with him in those shoes, haven't been in a while.
And this comes from someone who didn't even hate that period where there were two Cap books (until that ending, man did they frick it up bad).
Captain America and the Winter Soldier came out the same year they returned to Sam in Captain America in the comics, how could they have forced it YEARS before even getting rid of Steve in the MCU and making Sam the new Cap in UCM?
Plus there was never even a hint of Sam being the one who would carry the shield instead of Bucky in the movies.
They were planning ahead, the same with female wolverine, female Thor, iron heart, it was just preparing the reader for what they were going to see in the movies (it didn't work) it was all part of gaygie's 10 year long plan
Could you give me some examples of this? I really have been disconnected from the mutants even before their island 2.0 electric boogalo
Besides Kamala, who have been turned into mutants recently? Moira I suppose is one since she was originally a human, right?
I just hope they never give Franklin his x gene back.
>I doubt Wilson gives a frick at this point.
Didn't she admit that Kamala was always originally meant to be a mutant and the Inhuman origin was only because they were what Marvel was trying to shill at the time?
On one hand, the only synergy I want is them porting Lunella's latina bestie from the cartoon to the Moon Girl comics. On the other, they would probably ruin her, so I also don't want that.
>People are going to be very mad that I have to kill Ms. Marvel."
And yet those who noticed cheered.
It's like the time they kill Green Lantern's girlfriend and put her in the fridge to develop him except it was a hero who used to have their own comic book he barely knew.
Cody Ziegler has fatter breasts than Slott and somehow less of a chin
Pretty sure the Eternals dying and coming back in different bodies predates the MCU but I'm not 100%
Feige runs the comics and movies nnow?
>now
he always did
There's no way he forced Marvel to retcon Wanda's and Pietro's Mutantness away. That was Ike and his lackies 100% during the X-Ban era. However, I have the hunch that Wanda and Erik making peace was mandated by him since Tom Brevoort made sure the change wouldn't be reverted so easily and tried his damn hardest to distance her from everything X-Men.
It was a while back but he was given power to oversee everything for Marvel.
why would anyone approve of this?
Bob Iger thought it was a good idea at the time
well if kamala is his waifu i cant blame him. I'd push my waifu too if I had marvel or DC under my thumb
Kamala was pushed cuz she was the OC of Sana Amanat, she's now a producer of the movies instead of a comic books editor
It's funny how Kamala is a mutant for brand synergy with the movies, except the movies really suck.
At the time, everyone but Feige was failing. He already got a boost in power during the Avengers 2 debacle in which he came out looking golden and that committee he had to work with was fired. Disney wanted synergy and Feige wanted more control over everything.
*ruins
Do you remember when Captain Marvel went to Kamala's funeral with a hijab on? which is basically an insult to the memory and culture of kamala.
Don't women have to wear a hijab inside mosques, even the ones with the more liberal takes on the words of the prophet, regardles of their faith?
>I just hope
Too bad man.
Nobody cares about Kamala and I promise nobody would notice she even vanished if not for one or two twitter ape outs.
It's so hilarious they needed her to be in ASM just for her death to get some notice, not only that, but shove in as many named characters, not even her own friends alongside Spidey to boost the notoriety of the issue. I never want to hear another Kamalagay argue she's popular.
It's honestly astounding how hard they have to bend reality to pretend like she's the most amazing person in the marvel universe.
I like how both Ziglar and Marvel themselves completely gloss over the ridiculous callousness of killing Kamala off at the tail end of a Spider-Man arc. She's supposed to be a beloved superstar character, but she can't even get a miniseries let alone a one-shot dedicated to her death? Her death, mourning and resurrection is completely confined to books about other characters, for the sole purpose of chaining her to their latest, original darlings. And the kicker: these are the same characters they tanked for synergy to help boost Kamala and her ilk in the first place!
It really is a small world after all.
Should have been One-Eye King in the Land of blind, instead of deem dozen Mutant
Holy shit i cant stop laughing
LOL
LMAO
Okay anyone here got the storytime archived of this shit?
I want to see how Cinemaphile react to that?
https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/137238879/
Reaction to her death, leaked two weeks early.
https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/137470215/
First storytime.
So...
Should she stay as Inhuman only, or retconning her into Mutant was a good idea?
It out her in the background of a franchise that's already pack full with superstars.
Kamala works bests when she works alone and has the opportunity to fangirl to cameos, like in those 90s sitcoms
So far retconning her has only made been a detriment. The writers couldn't help but make her her minis all mutant racism and NYX has promised to be more the same. She doesn't a power because of how badly received the MCU powers are. She one of the few mutants in history whose origin got more complicated by making them a mutant. Even worse she jumped right into the I'm not human train too. Her sales have only gotten worse, she has been a poor fit for the X-books especially during the "kill all mooks" era. Being an Inhuman was an unseen blessing because even at the height of push they didn't stick their dicks in her book. That's more than you can say for the Avengers and X-men.
>So far retconning her has only made been a detriment.
>Even worse she jumped right into the I'm not human train too.
Funnily enough, this is exactly what people warned what would happen, but they probably didn't anticipate of how much worse of a reception she'd have after her retcon.
Kamala not being the right kind of freak wasn't what caused her to shit the bed in sales, it was inserting her into fricking everything like a brown, female Wolverine and telling people she was super important is what made people get sick of her. Hopefully this will kick Marvel off of their gay little Inhuman ban and can actually bring back Black Bolt to fricking do something for once instead of being stuck in limbo.
Forgot to include
Don't you remember the Inhumans are supposed to be coming back for the end of her current limited series.
That's me being ignorant because I guess I didn't give enough of a damn to pay attention, but I can bet it's just going to be a bunch of ass-patting of how they're so proud of her newly discovered lineage and to have fun with "her people."
This just makes me more certain that the Inhuman ban was a personal call and not the bullshit giving them a break until X-gays are less mad. Feige is still Salty about Ike 7 years after he won control of the MCU.
What is it about this character that Marvel treats with such prestige? Her teen hero gimmick has been done to death, her powers are shit, her design is shit, and she's so irrelevant that she had to die in a Spider-Man comic and is now leeching off of the X-Men.