https://www.cbr.com/marvels-comics-lagging-behind-dc-indie-hits/
>Marvel's biggest problem right now is a leadership problem. Marvel's editors are often openly hostile to the fans and what they want. Quesada pioneered the company's "outrage=sales" approach, and the current editors all came to power under him. There's a reason why Marvel pushed things like one-note, depressing X-Men stories for years or made sure to double down on keeping Spider-Man and Mary Jane apart. Marvel's publishing strategies for many of its biggest characters and titles basically exist to make fans miserable and keep stringing them along with the hope that things will change. Marvel has amazing creators at their disposal, as well as legendary, recognizable characters. However, there's nothing truly exciting in the works for Marvel fans and when there is, Marvel doesn't take advantage of it. This problem can't be laid on the creators and the comics. Even the worst Marvel comics are still pretty good compared to comics of the past. If there's a problem, it's coming from the company's executive decisions.
>New blood brings excitement, and Marvel doesn't need EICs who stay the course like Alonso and Cebulski have since 2011. It needs someone who is wheeling to break the wheel, like Quesada, or be hated for constantly demanding the best, like Shooter, rather than more of the same.
>Marvel is definitely in a bizarre place right now. The publisher is massively successful, but the cracks in its facade have been showing for a long time, since its last editor-in-chief Axel Alonso's tenure. The best way to illustrate this is the hubbub around The Amazing Spider-Man. The Amazing Spider-Man is often the bestselling superhero comic on the charts. When it's not number one, that spot is taken by Batman, or some other big comic, often an event book but usually still Marvel. It would be easy to imagine that The Amazing Spider-Man, then, is the most popular comic, dripping with praise and high critical esteem. However, the current run of The Amazing Spider-Man has received a very negative reaction from Marvel's fans. The critical reception for the book is fair to middling. If it's Marvel's best-seller, The Amazing Spider-Man should be beloved, not panned.
>There are multiple factors behind Amazing Spider-Man's struggles, like the recent death of Ms. Marvel, but this isn't just an Amazing Spider-Man problem. In 2018, Marvel made a big deal when it relaunched The Avengers with superstar writer Jason Aaron and a corps of brilliant artists led by Ed McGuinness. This sort of thing was a recipe for success for years in the '00s and '10s when it came to The Avengers, but the 2018 series never got there. There was nothing wrong with the book; it had excellent threats, a great roster, and despite some missteps, it was exactly the kind of big-stakes superhero book that The Avengers should be. However, no one was excited about the book. Even putting a more MCU-friendly roster on the book didn't help; in fact, it feels like it hindered the book, as Marvel's comic fans are rebelling against the MCU-ification of the Marvel Universe. The Avengers tried to be a big concept superhero blockbuster, but it never got the blockbuster part right, despite having all the correct ingredients. This reflects Marvel's bigger problems.
>Wolverine is yet another mystifying property at Marvel. Wolverine's death in 2014 was massive and Marvel kept him off its pages for four years. His return in 2018 should have been huge. However, the quality of The Return Of Wolverine was a problem for many fans, and it contradicted everything that fans thought they knew about the Wolverine's return. That story began in Marvel Legacy #1, which kicked off a "Where's Wolverine?" micro event, where Wolverine appeared in short stories at the end of many books. The Return Of Wolverine revealed that those appearances weren't actually starring a resurrected Wolverine, making "Where's Wolverine?" appear like a cynical marketing strategy to get Wolverine fans to buy books.
>The Return Of Wolverine had four miniseries that led up to it, few of which actually had anything to do with the upcoming book. It was a fiasco. Wolverine is a Marvel legend; he's a crossover star of the highest order. Everyone, from comic fans to movie fans, knows Wolverine. However, on top of all The Return Of Wolverine shenanigans, Marvel didn't even give Wolverine a solo book for two years, mostly relegating him to secondary titles from 2018 to 2020. It's such a weird misstep for a company that has spent the better part of the last few decades putting Wolverine front and center every chance they get.
>Even the return of the Ultimate Universe feels like a weird move for the publisher. The Ultimate Universe was molten hot at the beginning of the '00s, but that changed quickly. By 2005, the Ultimate Universe's vaunted simple continuity fell apart and suddenly it had the same problem as the 616 universe. From 2005 to 2015, the Ultimate Universe slowly died, becoming more and more irrelevant. It was definitely a smash hit for a few years, and many older fans have some fond memories of it, but by the time it ended, no one cared. Ultimate Invasion is stacked with talent. Writer Jonathan Hickman and artist Bryan Hitch are helming the book but it's hard to decide who the book's actual audience is. It's a comic that seems like fans are buying it out of habit more than anything else, which feels like Marvel's main marketing strategy. The company is depending on the past and fans who try to fill complete runs instead of storytelling.
Wolverine was dead? For four years? Wow.
Ike Perlmutter was being a salty douchebag
Yeah but people didn't notice it because Old Man Logan was brought into the timeline and was just older Wolverine
Barely, there was a slew of other wolverines there to take his place including an old man version of him.
is yet another mystifying property at Marvel. Wolverine's death in 2014 was massive and Marvel kept him off its pages for four years. His return in 2018 should have been huge. However, the quality of The Return Of Wolverine was a problem for many fans
Old man Logan replaced him during this time
Death of Wolverine was also a lousy "Wolverine's greatest hits" story.
You didn't need anecdotes from retailers when you could just look at year over year unit sales.
Yeah, Old Man Logan replaced him nearly immediately and it never felt like Wolverine was gone at all.
>no mention of Aaron raping she-hulk
Into the trash it all goes.
By CBR standards, this is really negative toward Marvel, so I expected the writer to do something like dodging what people really hated about Aaron's Avengers
>There was nothing wrong with the book
WHAT IF ONE CHARACTER WAS OTHER CHARACTER
Is DC good right now or just less bad?
less bad
Less bad.
I only care about the comics. I don't watch their movies or play the games or listen to the audio dramas.
If the comics are bad, they're worth bothering with in any medium.
much worse
You know the answer is never good, simply less bad.
DC is putting out a lot of good books right now. They still publish bad ones too, and they still rely way too much on events, but this Dawn of DC thing they’re doing has created a lot of new jumping on points for a lot of characters and putting some good creators on them. It feels like DC is actually kind of trying to be successful.
>DC is putting out a lot of good books right now
Such as?
Rafael Grampa's Batman mini.
I feel like if I say one you’ll just instantly call it shit
No, I love DC and I hate post-Shooter Marvel.
I enjoy Superman, Doom Patrol, and Green Lantern for example
Well, the best thing they were publishing just ended sadly, but Jeremy Adams’ run on The Flash was really wonderful. Joshua Williams’ Superman has been good, Phillip Kennedy Johnson’s work on Action Comics has been good as well. Jeremy Adams has just started a Green Lantern series which hasn’t kicked into full gear yet, but I am excited to see where it goes. Dennis Culver has been doing a Doom Patrol miniseries that got extended an extra issue. It’s really funny and I like the art quite a bit. Zdarsky’s Batman has been polarizing but I kind of appreciated the audacity of the last story arc. Your mileage may vary on that one, but the others I can highly recommend, and I’m always excited to pick up the next issue. There aren’t very many Marvel books I can say that about right now.
>Jeremy Adams’ run on The Flash
Stopped reading right there. It is by far the worst kind of capeshit there is.
Explain.
First arc deals with the repercussions of an event (that I didn't even read), it has pointless multiverse hopping, terrible easy fixes for civilian life (Mr. T just gives him a job that he can show up to when he wants and leave when he wants, husband he solves an incredible problem for the big heads on his first day, but worst of all is the when school of writing where there's a quip every page and I fricking hate lame unfunny jokes in moments of tension where you're talking about dead people or people that are going to die. Oh and the art is atrocious, ugly, stiff looking trash, some of the worst art at the big two right now and that's saying something.
Anon, a book with Mr. T cannot be bad.
I’m sorry but Adams’ Flash is what more superhero comics should be. Lots of fun with a cast of lovable characters.
Your post made me hate it even more.
Feels like I'm back in 2012.
A good year. Valiant was about to publish many nice books.
and now they can barely publish one a month
>shit writing
>is your imaginations fault
Not that anon bu frick off the Odyssey brought me more fun than some cape shit i've read and i had a dictionary on hand to search for words i didn't understand for that book,
Good ESL. Now go back to Cinemaphile.
dont go to Cinemaphile but i know shit writing when i see it.
And thats what cape shit is. Don't peddle garbage and expect people to clap for you maggot.
>dont go to Cinemaphile
Maybe you should. Surely someone can recommend you a good book on English grammar and orthography.
Black person im online im not going to go through all that work for some dumb homosexual i'll forget in 3 hours.
>Jeremy Adams
>Joshua Williamson
>Phillip Kennedy Johnson
I'll try those, thanks. Williamson did a good Flash.
I didn’t even mention Batman/Superman: World’s Finest because I haven’t been reading it, but a lot of people rave about it. It’s in continuity, but takes place in the past. I keep hearing how great it is and I should really check it out myself.
I liked Nightmare County and Dead boy Detectives and Detective Comics is alright and I'm excited for Batman Gargoyle of Gotham.
Doom patrol alone clears all of marvel right now
That book is great. I wish they’d just make it an ongoing.
Less bad. Most of their comics still suck. But they are trying to fix some of their characters.
Absolutely equally abysmal. Anyone telling you otherwise is LGBTQ and doesn’t spend money or a shill/employee
Until they fix Superman none of it matters, and no - shill - they have not. Both books are awful.
>I'm very intelligent and hetero because I suck Marvel wiener
Dude literally said dc is just as bad.
It is just the same shill who shills PKJ’s awful Action Comics. He’s also the same shill who spams the same Knight Terrors thread with the same image and filename.
Is he in the room with you?
Oh that's right CBR replaced their staff with chuds earlier this year
You think they would ease into the blatantly false click bait articles
There's no universe where DC has better representation than Marvel.
And DC's problems go far beyond Superman.
The fiction of their shared universe is broken. There is no narrative fix to it. They need to start a brand new story unconnected to everything that's come before it.
It has consistent books but arguably also has the worst books being published this year.
Jim Shooter or Robert Kirkman need to be in charge
Only thing I'm paying attention to them currently is Green Lantern
would Kirkman even ever want to run Marvel?
Let me talk with him
I legit think he'd be able to turn it around pretty decently if giving the chance but I think he's still a bit pissed over how he was treated when working there
>Is DC good right now or just less bad?
DC is actively worse. All of the problems that article mentions go double for DC. Editors and writers who openly hate the fans, characters, and medium and write out of pure spite, stories that don't mean anything because the "everything is canon" approach has made it so continuity doesn't matter at all and nobody (even the people working on the books) knows what the continuity of current DC even is.
They misstep creatively constantly (everything involving Lian and Roy for example, who I still don't think have reunited and Lian is also like 13 and a superhero now and not even the same character anymore) and they quite literally have no way to get people into their comics anymore outside of turning characters gay every few months as a marketing stunt which is starting to see diminishing returns and people turning on it.
Marvel is bad right now but DC is a hell of a lot worse and is probably in the worst creative slump in company history with seemingly no fix and anyone of any ability to get them out of it.
Dude She-Hulk for the past 2 years has just been stuffing her face with food & spewing how she doesn't believe in good & evil anymore.
What they did reunite in green arrow 1.
GOod they are getting Superman right.
Marvel is not getting spider-man right therefore marvel comics are bad.
>cbr
What?
>2023 cbr
Double what?
This dude is gonna be out of his job by the end of the day once this makes the rounds.
>This dude is gonna be out of his job by the end of the day once this makes the rounds.
There's been growing number of CBR articles critical of Marvel this year. I think either:
>Disney is low on cash so Marvel can't pay CBR
or
>Someone at Marvel or Disney is telling CBR to run these articles to prep for some drastic shake-up at Marvel
Reading through the article again (and thinking about what Brevoort said recently), I think it really is
>Someone at Marvel or Disney is telling CBR to run these articles to prep for some drastic shake-up at Marvel
Case in point, this part of the article:
>Quesada's handpicked editors have been in charge since he left and the company has suffered setbacks that wouldn't have been thought possible during Quesada's tenure. Instead of going in new directions, they've just kept the ship moving on the course Quesada laid out twenty-three years ago.
It feels like Disney or Marvel upper management is telling CBR to run this, to prep for promotion/firing of Quesada-era people
I'd imagine disney might be going with a move in editorial to people not loyal to the comic brand, but the movie brand. We know that they are folding in publishing fully, this is kind of reading that they might be bear hugging.
>Waid was talking to a fan apparently marvel studios higher ups obviously forced the kamala xmen synergy. Wells & editorial tried pushing back on it but failed.
>If anything Brevoort might be moved Horizontally to make these kind of changes or moved out the way in general.
>to prep for promotion/firing of Quesada-era people
who? who's left from that era?
Brevoort, Jordan D White, Nick Lowe, among others
and what have they done recently, if anything at all?
hell wasn't brevoort the fall guy for bendis leaving
Marvel is rebooting their entire line in 2025 in one final desperate attempt to attract new readers and to draw back fans who for whatever reason have decided to stop reading their comics. Honestly from way things sound shit is finally over. Let it die.
>for whatever reason
>Marvel is rebooting their entire line in 2025
Who would write their CoIE? Hickman?
The guy already did that with Secret Wars, even though he brought it back almost exactly as it was. It'd be pretty galling of him to reimagine/repurpose his own reimagining/repurposing of a previous story.
>Marvel is rebooting their entire line in 2025 in one final desperate attempt to attract new readers and to draw back fans who for whatever reason have decided to stop reading their comics.
>Waid was talking to a fan apparently marvel studios higher ups obviously forced the kamala xmen synergy. Wells & editorial tried pushing back on it but failed.
The problem is I don't think a full reboot will help if they still have the same people they have now on board. It'd just be an even worse version of New 52. If this is a mandate from Marvel Studios or Disney then they'd tank their already declining reputation further.
>Marvel is rebooting their entire line in 2025
>they are folding in publishing fully
VENGEANCE IS HIS
Iger fired Ike partly to get the folding publishing into Disney thing going
>Someone at Marvel or Disney is telling CBR to run these articles to prep for some drastic shake-up at Marvel
God, I hope the current Marvel leadership gets fired and blamed for all the shit they pulled. It would be undignified and ruin any possible legacy they might have. Them getting shitted on by their own people, by clickbait articles, fans and casuals is the only thing that could make up for all this bullshit.
Yeah, I thought cbr just did listicles these days
Who gives a shit about comics? Just focus on media like movies and games. Even audio drama podcasts are seen as a better investment than comics.
>This problem can't be laid on the creators and the comics. Even the worst Marvel comics are still pretty good compared to comics of the past.
I feel like the CBR writer was in the bargaining stage
I think this is code for "at least fricking Bendis is out of Marvel's hair and is busy trashing up DC"
He's not at DC anymore either
>Marvel's editors are often openly hostile to the fans and what they want.
Oh, you're JUST now noticing? Welcome to the new millennium.
The damage is already done though, dude irreparably fricked up the place.
>Even the worst Marvel comics are still pretty good compared to comics of the past.
I wish he'd said what he meant by "past"
Does that mean he thinks they're better than the comics from the Alonso era or what
>Spider-Man is shit
>Everyone buys it anyway
Well there's your problem
It's mainly from people wanting the Disney variants and other variant covers
buys it anyway
No one buys this shit. Marvel only lives because of the movies, and that may change too.
Is this person new to comics, the internet hating the best-selling comics has always been the case. Marvel only cares about numbers. They're not falling behind DC and "indie comics" in any way sales-wise, they're running circles around them.
Reality check, this isn't the 00s anymore
We're hearing more and more retailers complaining that books aren't selling at all, in spite of their alleged placement on the chart. That tells me the bragging about Marvel outperforming DC on the monthly charts is meaningless and that people are mostly buying for variants and not for the comics inside
>We're hearing more and more retailers complaining that books aren't selling at all
Anecdotes. Also if they're over-ordering, that's on them.
>Anecdotes
Lol
Same excuse Marvel defense squad used when people were complaining about 2016-2017 Marvel, before Alonso got fired
ANAD and Marvel Now 2.0 legitimately tanked sales though. We had access to numbers back then.
And people back then still buried their heads in the sand and claimed complaints from retailers at that time were anecdotal, in spite of obvious evidence few were interested in Marvel's output at the time
There's too many complaints going around to dismiss them as anecdotal
There are about 2000 comic shops in the US. If there are a thousand complaints then there's definitely merit. A few dozen doesn't necessarily mean anything.
>There are about 2000 comic shops in the US.
How many of them still sell new comics?
I mean its crazy if we compare the 90's too, going from 2,000 to 8,000 is crazy down.
>and more retailers
who the FRICK buys physical floppies in 2020
The only thing they are falling behind in is trade sales, but that has been the case for years. Marvel doesn't care about trades or GNs. They just want to move floppies and create new IPs for other media in them.
Finally someone says the real issue behind Marvel turning to shit instead of drowning it behind culture politics. Let's see it it actually registers or how it gets spun.
Imagine writing this article and not mentioning sales numbers even once. How is Marvel falling behind indies exactly? In facebook comment threads? Marvel has said time and time again that Amazing Spider-Man is a huge sales success and that's why they won't fire Wells. The writer of the article not liking the story doesn't make it a failure in an editorial point of view, nor does it put Marvel below indies. The entire article is a joke
Like the entire article is just a dude talking about which stories he likes and which he doesn't. And he likes Aaron Avengers. Who even cares about his tastes
>Update
you sound just like the average salty internet troll who lives in a basement, How about going outside for once
Enjoy your ragebait thread validating the opinions of an Aaron enjoyer
https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/54696/comic-sales-lag-weak-spring
https://sktchd.com/longform/marvel-feature-2023/
It's not an amazing spiderman issue, it's an industry issue and image issue. ASM can sell its course for sure, but retailers are getting hurt by marvels decision making and title selection in 2023. The boost of covid is basically erased and now is dwindling back downwards.
Didn't Chip Zdarsky mention (or at least imply) that editorial interference is why he'd never take a main Spider-Man title despite how acclaimed his run with the character was?
That and the fandom probably.
Who cares, Zdarsky sucks. His Howard the Duck sucked, his Spider-Man sucked, his Daredevil sucks, his Batman sucks. Zdarsky isn't going to deliver great Amazing Spider-Man issues even with no editorial interference.
I want to shake your hand, anon.
I feel like I'm going crazy because everyone seems to like this guy and even when they don't they go "but his [insert book] was great" yet everything I've read by him was dogshit.
Kind of missing the point here when a "high profile" writer (doesn't matter if you don't like him) looks at the mess that is the main Spider-Man title and nopes out on it.
I think the bigger point is how marvel is having a talent drain issue and the writers are leaving to do their own stuff. New ones aren't really propping up name excitement.
If that "New Stuff" is generally well recieved and applauded, or said writers go over to DC to do similarly liked stuff, why do you think the Editors at Marvel are not to blame?
Or are you just a contrarian who doesn't like modern things?
Oh editorial is to blame for sure, they have their hand in the pie its on them to make sure the content delivers.
I don’t understand the Daredevil praise he gets
I'll be honest, the few times he wrote Spidey in his DD book, it felt more Spidey then Wells garbage.
But either way, Lowe has been the constant in shit quality. I'm still quite shocked on how awful Dark Web was because it truly felt like Editorial was trying to throw every thing at it to see what sticks:
- Old School Venom!
- New School Venom/Chasm!
- Not Green Goblin!
- New Spidey character!
- New Waifu!
- X-Men!
- Demons!
- Clone on Clone Action!
- WHAT DID PETE DO!?!
He wouldn't want to deal with toxic fans. Well, the start of his spectacular run tainted the rest of it.
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/comic-store-in-your-future-is-this-business-or-craziness/
>Back issues are red-hot sellers. People want to buy comics. I bought an Amazing Spider-Man collection from the 70s and 80s a few weeks ago, and those are flying out the door almost as fast as I can get them priced.
>I wish we could get more Iron Man and Hulk issues into the comic store from the 70s and 80s. We have customers who want them. They move on in a hurry if and when I manage to get more in.
>New comic sales here in the comic store are increasingly slowing down. The recent death of Ms Marvel in Amazing Spider-Man was not a big deal at the store. A few people picked it up just for the death, though not many. I over-ordered it.
>The latest issues of Iron Man and Hulk are low sellers. The characters have fans, but few are interested in their latest adventures.
>Marvel’s Falling Behind DC And Indie Comics But They Can Still Catch Up
Marvel is dead anon, Feige and Disney killed Marvel comics, took away the cheesecake and went further changed the art style, can no longer have close-ups on the ass, can no longer hire artists like Ed Benes, Frank Cho today who has preference are gay artists like Kris Anka and women who draw women without any sexual appeal and I don't need to say the mediocre quality of stories, X-Men in their worst phase ever and the huge amount of LGBT message, it is impossible for Marvel to go back to what it was...
Nu Marvel ladies and gentlemen
Every time I see this complaint, all I can think of is this comic from frickin' 26 years ago.
>wall of text
>Even the worst Marvel comics are still pretty good compared to comics of the past.
What is this b***h trying to say? That old comics are trash?
Of course. there are Trash old comics like there are Trash new comics.
Shilling new shit is so ingrained in CBR's blood that they can't help but suck modern wiener even when they criticize it.
I know what can save this. We kill MJ in every universe and blame it all on Peter
I am very biased but it seems that, at least recently, Doom is really helping the marvel comics stay afloat. They know he is a huge fan base. He consistently has decent writing and is spread across several runs like Thor, Loki, FF4 and soon X-men. He's versatile enough that he can be both good/bad and go toe to toe with whatever big names are out there.
I can't be bothered to verify some of the comments, but speaking simply from the Spider-Man's office, I say it's been a shitshow for years. I can't find anyone that's happy with how Lowe is running the ship. I can't imagine the higher ups care what direction Spider-Man goes, so this just seems like a Lowe problem through and through.
Well slott thinks its great.
Because Slott is a nepotism hire who asks other writers to pick up his slack to meet deadlines
Oh for sure 100% dude is legit pure ego.
Slott wasn’t a nepotism hire he lied about being a college student to get an internship
I never thought there would be a writer worse off then Slott. I feel absolutely stupid because I liked Shed and I Wells might do a decent job.
It'd be real funny if this was slott.
Nope, Slott loved working with Lowe because he let him do whatever he wanted. Wacker rejected the Clone Conspiracy pitch three times, Lowe approved it immediately.
>Marvel has amazing creators at their disposal
>Even the worst Marvel comics are still pretty good compared to comics of the past
>"Now I know Marvel is struggling mightily, but American comics are still doing great guys!"
Fake news, Marvel is singlehandedly keeping the industry alive. If you look at the top 100 they have half the titles there.
The only fake news is coming from Marvel
Yeah marvels the giant but it definetly isn't too big to fail. They haven't capitalized on growth from covid & the movies, retailers are complaining now, & it's runs are getting increasingly close to being pulled out(see orlando bloom scarlet witch).
That’s impressive since current DC is so awful.
people in the industry are only now just figuring this out?
Honestly that they're even acknowledging it is a big surprise. I think people know something's up and it can't be damage controlled by Marvel's shills anymore
Similar thing with CBR, that someone is actually calling out Marvel editorial like this is a surprise since CBR was usually Marvel Shill Central
I can't imagine brevoort tantrum online isn't helping, he went off on this one cringe conspiracy theorist about spiderman. Granted it was a stupid theory, why the frick does a VP engage with stupid shit and give it any kind of air.
>brevoort tantrum online
kek, link pls?
https://tombrevoort.substack.com/p/70-obviously
Substack referring to it, prob could find the original twitter thread somewhere else.
in the same post were he hinted he might be getting the top producer role since the previous guy retired?
You talking about the new one where Buckley asks him to do something he doesn't want to do.
>Buckley asks him to do something he doesn't want to do
Anal?
Something is definitely changing when these kinds of websites can’t pretend the industry is healthy anymore.
>While Marvel is doing some things wrong, they aren't completely beaten. Blade #1 was a huge hit, which was unprecedented in Blade's long Marvel history. The horror side of the Marvel Universe has long been underserved, and Blade's success shows that fans want more. Writer Jed MacKay has become Marvel's hottest new writer, working on B-list books like Strange, Black Cat, and Moon Knight. He got to write the two Kang Timeless one-shots, the second of which led to him getting tapped for The Avengers. The X-Men books have been the only part of Marvel's entire line with any heat since 2019, and Summer Of Symbiotes has expanded one of the more popular corners of the Marvel Universe. Captain Marvel just finished up an amazing run.
>Guardians Of The Galaxy was relaunched by the Hivemind, writers Jackson Lanzing and Collin Kelly, who have also been putting out two excellent Captain America comics. Fantastic Four is more beloved than it's been in decades. The Incredible Hulk has impressed readers with its first two issues, and everyone is looking forward to Immortal Thor. There is a lot to love in the current Marvel Universe, but many of the best titles are off the beaten path. Fans know what to look for, and they buy in large enough quantities to keep Marvel at the top of the food chain, but even these great comics can't really penetrate the general miasma around Marvel right now.
I stopped reading Venom and Carnage when that Summer of Symbiotes stuff was announced.
It's crazy that Avengers dropped from icv2 top 50 comic list in july.
>Avengers dropped from icv2 top 50 comic list in july.
No way
Well I guess date wise it had only 4 days of sales, but it didn't even crack 50 for what should be its highest period.
I’m really liking this current run, but that Aaron run was so awful. And I think people might just be tired of Avengers stuff.
All comics are bad anyways.
That's what NPCs believe
People told me marvel was above dc..
Who cares about current Marvel and DC? 1999 baby. I just read back issues from the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s instead of modern crap. There's so much lore and stories that I have enough to indulge in than waste time and money on this shitfest.
>I just read back issues from the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s instead of modern crap
I'm reading The Spectacular Spider-Man from 1976 and man, modern capes cannot compete at all.
More articles are are popping up lots of people are very unhappy with marvel and things are getting worse
https://sktchd.com/longform/marvel-feature-2023/
https://www.comicsbeat.com/comics-retailers-see-uncertain-future/
I know I saw a few more but can't remember the URLs at the moment
I also do remember earlier this year there were rumors that Marvel was having issues getting payments to creators on time
>I also do remember earlier this year there were rumors that Marvel was having issues getting payments to creators on time
Could that be the real the reason their comics are so bad? So the writers fugure since they are not getting payed enough that they will get revenge by writing the worse stories ever. Makes sense to me.
Actually apparently there's a kind of talent drain a lot of writers are getting super old but they have no concurrent young replacements.
>Marvel was having issues getting payments to creators on time
Welp, they're fricked.
lol the comics beat comment section one is funny its 1 retailer fighting a bunch of other dudes in the comments section.
Let’s face it these higher ups are all Quesada people, and it’s been overused, but OMD showed his style was a part of his “just write it” mentality. This is what’s going on because now it’s all his people and if the story is going a certain way and fans don’t like it, they just keep writing, and Quesada was heavily involved and so you gets editors who tell you what to write and ideas you should include in your stories.
I think that CBR article is probably the first time I saw an article basically calling out the Quesada-era editorial. It's still defending Quesada, but at the same time it's implying that Quesada's methods are no longer working for Marvel
Cuz they aren't huge movies and mainstream superhero appeal didn't even move the needle for growth only covid did. Now they have lost those gains and are struggling.
The 00's were the worst.
That's Slott being cringe and he never left.
He was always bad, but Cinemaphile will lie to themselves & say they never liked his stuff. Or "he went nuts".
Slott's written some fine stuff. Arkham Asylum, Great Lakes Avengers, Mighty Avengers, even Cinemaphile voted Spider-Island the best book of the year it came out.
Marvel screwed themselves in a lot of ways. I don't buy trades because they are way over priced and digital is dead since they killed the app. I stick to Omnibus and Cinemaphile now.
Editor musical chairs starting. Breevroot moving over to the X books
Hahaha oh God that is funny.
But will that really help? I mean I guess he can point to Busiek Avengers, Bendis Avengers, and maybe charitably Hickman Avengers as sales successes under his watch
So what's the succession for the avengers title are they just switching?
https://www.thepopverse.com/marvel-x-men-xmen-comics-studios-tom-brevoort
In what way is Marvel "falling behind" DC? Marvel is shit right now but DC is completely unreadable garbage.
From the other articles linked in this thread, retailers were reporting more interest in DC titles than Marvel