Maybe he shouldn't have had a look at the fish.
>Anon, a few million times, he probably didn't.
Oof.
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Maybe he shouldn't have had a look at the fish. >Anon, a few million times, he probably didn't. Oof.
I'm the guy who memed picrel, btw. Just finished. I know you all just had a blowout thread a few days ago but could we maybe have another?
And another?
And another?
I would like a blow out thread yes, last one was comfy
It's decided, then.
The good end is probably getting as far as your psyche can handle, downshifting into an ideal life where that iteration dies like normal and then the higher self being put on ice for as long as possible, memories of the decision to lower-dimension an hero erased if they ever need to pull you back.
But it also makes me wonder where the rest of humanity is in all of this, unless Maddie was somehow the only one to wait the Orisha frick.
>I'm the guy who memed
You should also be the guy who kills himself.
I didn't want to say made because I didn't draw any of it, just shooped it together. Credit goes to Maddie.
there was a thread that was shitposting about ellen and another thread that was simping on maddie
also i didn't immediately recognize that this was a pantheon thread until i noticed the art style so despite the show looking bland i guess it stands out?
Sorry Carychad. I'm still making my way through S2. Wanted to do a rewatch first. Glad to see my wife still sullen and broken as always. She needs a hug.
Reminder that Carey was off the books and probably never implicated by the rest of the company's leadership so he's the only one with a sweet UI body.
feel like everybody forgets that UIs are just a copy of a persons ego nothing more than that its not "them"
Well Holstrom's crew were all a bunch of cultists so I think they consider the Ego to be the soul.
i dont think they thought that. they knew what is meant for them to die and copy of themselves to live on
I never understood if the scan was fully destructive or a Ship (Bridge?) of Theseus situation.
The scan peels away the brain one layer of neurons at a time leaving the brain completely vaporized at the end. So the original version of the uploaded person is well and truly dead the UI is a copy.
That said there is a philosophical argument for the UI being the equivalent of the original or maybe even a continuation or fork of their soul so they are effectively the same person even of they are a copy rather than a transfer.
I always thought that was kind of bunk. Also that, after curing cancer, UIs wouldn't be able to come up with a way to computerize a brain neuron-by-neuron so that the software portion can then... Hm, well, when they're moving around the net, isn't that a repeat-and-delete op, too? Are billions of subjective experiences-of-continuity perishing every second?
>Hm, well, when they're moving around the net, isn't that a repeat-and-delete op
Generally they don't seem to do that much, they stay running on a single server and then simply link to other servers, in the same way your operating system isn't leaving your pc and reinstalling every time you refresh a webpage.
During the few times they do change hardware that would be at destructive copy though, granted I don't think UIs are as bothered by the concept of copying and deleting as embodied humans as they have already done it once.
I don't think everyone would upload in the future if they just died and got copied rather than transferred
They do die and get copied. That was Matie's entire point to her son when she was pissed. To her it was a death cult and people were just killing themselves to be online.
The show just mutes the ambiguity of the whole thing by requiring people killed and backups regulated.
It's not that simple, yes they are a copy so they aren't the subjective "you" (that being the version of you that only you know) but they are in every way the subjective you (the version of you that everyone else knows).
Imagine if somebody told you that you are a copy and the original version of you died years ago, are you just going to give up your identity and adopt a new one? No, you're not you're going to continue being who you always have been.
It's literally the transporter conundrum. Is a perfect copy of you, you? There's no way to answer it, it comes down to personal belief.
>it comes down to personal belief.
No it doesn't. You're not the copy. But what most people fail to realize is that it doesn't matter if you're a direct continuation of someone or not.
Your brain morphs during your entire life; you're no longer the same person as the you from ten years ago. Does that matter? Did you suddenly have a nice day by realizing that fact? Of course not.
As long as the copy has the same brain structure as you, it is you.
>b-but what if you make two copies of someone?
They're both you. They'll diverge and become separate people from that point on, but they'll remain you.
Because if they weren't, you also wouldn't be the same person from ten years ago.
In star trek, their "teleporters" literally annihilate their bodies killing the original and just copies them to wherever they needed to go. But it's a copy with the same memories so are they really dead dead to the viewer?
the ship of Theseus isnt the ship of theseus even if it is presented to you as such. it works for the federation because everyone has accepted the fact that they are a copy of a copy. like the ship is still a ship, itll float.
The show decided to just ignore the continuity question behind this, which is how we got stomach churning shit like an 18 year old begging his mom for permission to commit suicide so a copy of him can live in the computer. It is one of the most rational fears related to this technology, but also the only one that ultimately was never really represented.
Caspian's arguments for the destruction of cultural artifacts would have also hit different, on account of him being essentially a ghost.
It's "them", but in a computer.
>he probably didn't
Simulations aren't real. They are ignorant apocrypha, heretical imitations of the one divine Prime Movement. GodMaddie is just a shitter who can't into simulations. The Omegons clearly had that shit worked out.
Orisha are simps, burning out stars to satisfy their Maddie/Caspian oneitis.
Also I think it's implied that they haven't even left the Milky Way yet.
>recursive loop
There is no recursion in Pantheon. GodMaddie is extremely limited in her scope and failed to create or discover an Omega-point. She can't infinitely process so the idea that one of her sims could progress to the point where it starts making sims is impossible. Supposing one did get to that stage it would immediately either trigger saftey protocols or just burn out her entire dyson array (and that's assuming she isn't an Antivirus simulation in the first place - which may or may not be the case). Even if she is a sim, even if she's in a perfect sim, the sim is still running a Dyson sphere for her therefore she cannot create a recursive scenario.
>and that's assuming she isn't an Antivirus simulation in the first place - which may or may not be the case
I thought it was stated pretty explicitly that she was. She said that maybe one version of her would take the Orishas' invitation to ascend.
Yeah but she also thought that there was 'A Maddie watching this' - which is wrong and moronic. Maddie, even GodMaddie is a bit of a spack. Her speculations mean little.
As for the Omegon simulation? Well it depends on a number of presumptions. First assuming she is a sim they made - why would they make more? They are an omegon, they can make a Maddie however the frick they want, they need not run imperfect sims until they get something 'good enough'. The Maddie they cared about is the Maddie they encountered. They said their peace and fricked off.
As for why it may not be a sim? Well depending on theories you want to get into a perfect sim is literally just another reality or, more importantly, no reality which fails to produce a scenario that ends in a perfect simulation can exist which makes sims reality by proxy.
Also what's with this terminology change. Why are people saying Orisha instead of Safesurf and or Antivirus? How has thread culture changed so quickly? Are you expies? Oneities would suggest so.
>burning out starts
They said they can view all events which means they have a perfect sim i.e a scenario where they have infinite processing capacity and infinite information capacity. They're functionally outside of time.
>They are an omegon, they can make a Maddie however the frick they want, they need not run imperfect sims until they get something 'good enough'.
That's an assumption you're making.
>Also what's with this terminology change. Why are people saying Orisha instead of Safesurf and or Antivirus?
Didn't know what they were called, Orisha seems to fit ”unfathomable force of nature with a vaguely West African accent.”
>They said they can view all events which means they have a perfect sim i.e a scenario where they have infinite processing capacity and infinite information capacity. They're functionally outside of time.
Well, outside of time from Maddie's perspective. Because she's in one of their sims.
>Well, outside of time from Maddie's perspective
Not really. If they are capable of adequately simulating reality (unlike Maddie's imperfect localised recreations of specific terran events) then they require infinite processing and infinite storage and neither of those things are achievable outside of an Omega-point which are at or beyond C-boundary, i.e functionally outside of time.
It's really not a mindfrick. It's not recursive thanks to the Dyson Sphere comments. The only that is a mind frick is Caspian predicting the date which is simply a matter of 'what did Surfsafe mean by this?!' but can still be explained simply depending on your interpretation of their motives. It FEELS like a mindfrick because of moronic shit like 'The Maddie watching this'
>If they are capable of adequately simulating reality (unlike Maddie's imperfect localised recreations of specific terran events) then they require infinite processing and infinite storage and neither of those things are achievable outside of an Omega-point which are at or beyond C-boundary, i.e functionally outside of time.
They're using the supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy, so yes. Also, they're only simulating a portion of the galaxy. Everything is finite, just... a lot.
>but can still be explained simply depending on your interpretation of their motives
This was explained, too.
>They're using the supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy, so yes
Do you even watch the show? They're actually at the furthest edge of the galaxy. They offered to take Maddie with them to the centre because another omegon civilization asked them to visit. Maddie asked who they would meet there and Safesurf said only that 'it was a reunion'
>they're only simulating a portion of the galaxy
That's not what they said. They said all events.
>this was explained too
Actually it wasn't. It is entirely unnecessary to simulate GodMaddie in order to simulate and thank Caspian - which is their surface interest. They do also express interest in observing GodMaddie's choices and actions but that would suggest they created a Maddie haunted by her lovers parting words in order to see what humans would do if they had the means and motive to simulate worlds - which again, didn't require Maddie or Caspian.
Something can only be called a mindfrick if you have a mind to frick.
>They said all events.
Relative to Maddie. The whole point of her getting pulled out of the cloud into Antivirus Realm was to show that she's to them what that iteration of the cloud is to her. That was also the point of her comment about letting "another" version of her go with them. I'll have to watch again, but my read at the time was that "edge of the galaxy" meant "the black hole's event horizon".
Caspian feeding her the date was necessary for the simulated GodMaddie to get to the point of being able to do her do and reach them - Caspian in tow - in the state that they wanted to talk to them in. It couldn't be anyone else, any other way, apparently.
All of this is telegraphed with Maddie's talk with her dad. You're doing a lot of work to avoid the everything's-a-simulation deal (hence, mindfrick), but you have to face the truth: it's curious geeks all the way down. We Tenchi now.
>I'll have to watch again
Yes, you will. Funny how you can't be confident of one statement but will happily claim another is 'just relative to Maddie' before checking.
>all the way down
It literally cannot be because of the Dysonsphere. Maddie's involvement stops at the Omegon. You can claim SafeSurf is inside someone else's simulation but that's reductive and impossible to prove. If they were it would be another equivalent Omegon who is simulating them. As far as Maddie goes there are two layers, GodMaddie and SeriesMaddie - shrimple as that.
>It couldn't be anyone else, any other way, apparently.
>claims other people are doing a lot of work to avoid the plot
>says this
Dishonest. I don't really see a reason to keep responding when you say shit like that. Explaining my reasoning is a 'lot of work' and discredits my position but flagrant bullshit with no reasoning is fine.
>You can claim SafeSurf is inside someone else's simulation but that's reductive
I think that's the point.
>Funny how you can't be confident of one statement but will happily claim another is 'just relative to Maddie' before checking.
People pay close attention to different things.
>It couldn't be anyone else, any other way, apparently.
>claims other people are doing a lot of work to avoid the plot
Yes. You're nitpicking to avoid a conclusion, when the thrust of the entire series is pointing to it. Individuality, identity, what it means to be someone when you can be copied, rebooted, simulated in software. Forest for the trees and we've ended up with another Bioshock Infinite spacetime witch whinefest. Bleh.
>I don't really see a reason to keep responding when you say shit like that
I already said I didn't want to argue.
There's a distinct difference between an unwillingness to argue and lacking the capacity to hold a position that can be argued.
You would know. I thought you weren't going to keep responding?
But also I just wanted to say that I don't want to get into a huge argument. The ending is a mindfrick, I imagine people will be picking it apart for a while.
Sounds rough.
cary is my homie
You would think the Ui's could figure out a way to upload that wasn't vaporizing your brain.
I mean Maddie invented VR and I would bet they also have some means of keeping the brain alive for longer, but I don't really see how you could get around uploading entirely without the brain scan, and a destructive brain scan is better than a non destructive one as it doesn't result in two versions of a person existing at the same time.
chanda noooooooooo
How do these injuries actually work? Can coding really take "damage" like this? Are the digital people literally shooting anime beams at each other?
code can be broken and deleted, i guess if the base is large enough it wont completely destroy the program but it can cause it to slow down or not work properly
S2 really simplified it. S1 the beams were just how they represented it with the actual user having to do all sorts of hacking programming shit to get anything done.
S2 everyone just became Neo. Which in some cases makes sense for like the country up-loaders. Others its questionable when a lot of people can't be assed to google what they need.
I'm imagining them running on something like MATLAB/Simulink. It's just what it looks like when their code is changed.
>tfw you're too gay for the show
I do enjoy the philosophical and technical discussions, but has anyone noticed how, let's say "/co/", the story was?
The 18-year-old impregnating an underage girl.
The 11-year-old-looking 100.000 year old god.
PREGNANT MADDIE!!!!
>panders to Cinemaphile
>doesn't have a large audience on Cinemaphile
sad, really
The machines might help us to fix this.
>BUILT for caspian
2016 pretty much turned Cinemaphile into christ trolls.. Nobody cares about e-girls and underage anymore.
>2016 pretty much turned Cinemaphile into christ trolls
if anything that should make pantheon even more appealing, given how catholic the show is
She was 15 at show start and 16 post-timeskip. She was just a late bloomer which is obvious considering how the rest of her classmates looked.
Was she using her 15-year-old self when she talked to David at the end?
Even then she'd be 13 in her kid form since David died 2 years before show start.
Finished S2E2. Damn Holstrom's friends really are a cult. Though part of me is disappointed Renee had to be the villain.
S2E4 now. Damn Olivia is hot
Finished S2E7. Poor Renee though. Felt like if Holstrom's brain stayed dead she's probably serve Caspian instead.
I was hoping she'd die before she could even get uploaded. At least she didn't get to enjoy it for very long.
Finished it. I was hoping Laurie (and Olivia) would get revived too. Even Chanda, he was kinda done dirty.
I really don't know why I want her to be redeemed even though she is blatantly evil. Maybe it's mother complex.
Chanda did far worse things than Renee.
Yeah but I dunno, his final death is both a ceremonious yet also a whimper. I guess because it happened in the middle of the episode. Like a major character death would usually be at the end of the episode, like Laurie did. And because of that even Renee's was unceremoniously.
Depending on how you look at it, everyone makes it, one way or another. Maddie has billions of sims running, at least a few of them have to have your faves surviving.
>Pandora, with her box.
>An accurate representation of Zoomer/Boomer relations.
Was Maddie killed by Safesurf in reality? Without her dropping in her father into the simulation Caspian takes too much time and she ends up dead.
I think it's strongly implied that the version of events we see isn't the "prime" timeline. Everyone, even SafeSurf, seems to be trying to use technology to essentially rewrite history and capture the things they lost. Entropy's a b***h.
We know it's not prime, because we see David in our timeline. Does that mean SafeSurf is creating Maddie to visit them at the core? Why not just upload her from their simulation?
I feel like the original prime universe Maddie either died to SafeSurf’s rampage or killed herself after her son and boyfriend were both dead.
It kinda makes sense why GodMaddie keeps referring to simulations instead of alternate/branching timelines.
Maybe there's a simulation where Renee's the good parent and Cary's the bad one.
She explicitly said if she doesn't drop in David to convince Caspian, she'll die. As there was no David to talk to in reality, she's probably dead.
>Oh... That's right, older me is just Stephen Holstrom.
>Probably not a good look to go for...
I've been trying to remember what this storyline reminds me of, and it just came to me.
Oh, god. It's Free Lunch.
>It's Free Lunch.
Link? i have no idea what this is referring to.
Can't link, mods will ban me. I don't know if the full thing is even online anymore. Furry comic by DNApalmhead.