>MILES! THE ENTIRETY OF EXISTENCE IS GOING TO IMPLODE IF YOU DON'T LISTEN TO ME!
>nah, imma do my own thang
Why am I supposed to like this guy again?
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He should just give up yeah
i hate everything about spiderverse but this image makes me giggle
Because... he's black?
Holy crap. Simultaneous.
true
He's black. That's the only reason
But wasn't it Gwen fault his canon event didn't happen? Who again was sent by Miguel.
His canon event wasn't scheduled yet, his dad is only being made canon in two days.
His event hasn't happened yet, that's the problem. He's rushing to prevent it. But yes, it's Gwen's fault for showing up and involving him in all the multiverse stuff so that he learned that his dad was going to die. Should have just kept her mouth shut.
When you think about it Pavitr's "canon event" was only occurring because Spot came to his alchemax which by Miguel's own speech on miles shouldn't count. This Miles is only a spider man because Kingpin brought in the spider from prowler miles universe.
>Pavitr's "canon event" was only occurring because Spot came to his alchemax which by Miguel's own speech on miles shouldn't count.
Some have argued that Pavitr's father was still going to die that day, just not from the Spot and not from Miles subsequently saving him.
You can argue it would have happened eventually but that particular endangerment of captain Singh was only caused by a dimension hopper which goes against the concept of canon events to begin with like Miles being the original flaw.
This movie's entire premise fricking implodes on itself the longer you think about it. It felt like it needed to be TV show or something to give everything breathing room and proper explanation.
Explain
He can’t he’s just outrage posting
Miguel is the only one who’s literally destroyed a universe and people act like he wouldn’t do it again to have his family
Cope
Cope with what?
See
the canon events don't make sense
NTA, but all that other guy's doing is headcanon. In the Spiderverse, Miguel's belief is a (supposed) rule based on his AI's(?) algorithm, so bringing up "What Ifs" that have not been explicitly shown in the Spiderverse movies as contradicting this is just an assumption on his part. You don't have to like it, mind you, and I feel Spot is a big enough threat on his own, but "not liking" =/= "doesn't make sense because (headcanon)"
But there are still plenty of Spider-men without dead uncles and cop friends. Unless the argument is that this version of the Spider-Verse is different from the one in comics continuity and none of the characters that contradict the movie rules don't count. Jessica Drew is obviously different so maybe this version has those events. But what about Spider-Noir? He's never had a police captain friend die. What about Ben Reilly, he's a clone, do Peter Parker's dead canon events just count for him? Did the car have dead car canon events? If the answer is "all the ones in the movie have them even if those characters normally don't", that's just incredibly lazy and lame.
>Unless the argument is that this version of the Spider-Verse is different from the one in comics continuity
This is the argument I spelled out in the post you're responding to because the movie has made obvious changes to several characters and that is what Miguel pretty much implies, yes.
>Did the car have dead car canon events?
Most likely, yes. Capeshit is not a super cereal medium.
>that's just incredibly lazy and lame
Ok.
The entire concept of "canon events" is a complete farce. Jessica Drew's very existence in the movie totally invalidates it, because she shares almost NOTHING with any other Spider person. She has different abilities (which they clumsily ignored in the movie for the sake of shoehorning her in) different backstory, different cast. She has no Uncle Ben or police captian that tragically dies, because she was NEVER meant to be connected to Spider-Man outside sharing the same costume theme and universe. The idea that Jessica would go along with this despite knowing that she never had to deal with any of the known "canon events" is baffling.
Plus "What If?" dimensions by default invalidate the concept, because their very existence relies on going against the status quo. And you can't say they're not canon when the MCU is directly referenced while that has its own set of "What If?" dimensions.
Even ignoring all of this, the concept of "canon events" only really serves to throw every other Spider-person under the bus. It's sloppy character writing that wasn't really needed when The Spot alone was good enough to carry the movie. They could've even kept 2099's backstory and his beef with Miles without having to fall on this stupid death cult shit.
If we going by jessica drew origins
I guess her uncle ben moment is killing her bf. or losing her parents.
I guess you can count her bf dying as her Ben moment, but they movie makes it explicitly clear that each Spidey has a cop friend that ends up dying. Jessica really doesn't have that same parallel.
Does it, though? It feels like a strawman argument that's built out of a misinderstanding of how comics and adaptations work. Nobody minds when a new version of a character has different story beats, so long as it actually ADDS something to the character. Superman's adopted father either lives or does depending on the adaptation, because both adds different elements to Clark's personality. Batman's entire rogues gallery was redefined by how much BTAS changed them. You don't see Thor with his original backstory of having an alter-ego.
It's tearing down a convention that was never really an issue in the first place.
Pure headcanon, she was shown doing Spider-Man No More or If This Be My Destiny, I forget which now.
it was If This be My Destiny. Hobie got the Spider-Man No More homage.
That only reinforces how they effectively shoehorned her in like a round peg in a square hole. Why even bring Jessica here if they're just going to retrofit her as a Spider-Man clone? No other version of Jessica is similar to Spider-Man, even by the movie's logic you'd think she'd pick up on that.
Okay but why
Why do you assume BLACK Jessica Drew has the same backstory as WHITE Jessica Drew? Her character was shit anyway and she will turn on Miguel in the sequel like Spider-Punk and Spider-Byte already did because black solidarity.
>Why do you assume BLACK Jessica Drew has the same backstory as WHITE Jessica Drew?
Because we know nothing about her except for her being pregnant, which also happens in 616. So it only seems fair to assume she's at least somewhat tangential to 616 Drew, especially with this idea that "canon events" are the same to everyone with a similar name. If she isn't, then what's the point of her being Jessica Drew in the first place instead of an outright Spider OC?
I don't know why they went with the fricking moronic framing of EVERY canon event happens to EVERY spider-man
they could have just said "you aren't guaranteed to do venom or spider-man no more but some things still are destined to happen which is why your dad has to die" which would have made just as much sense
He's the smartest and coolest black guy in family friendly television.
Some schizo tells you your Dad needs to die in order to save the universe (with a likely bullshit explanation) and you're just gonna sit there and obey?
Why did ever other Spider-Man obey it? They're supposed to be smart and moral guys
Assuming they didn't already go through it, I assume most of them, like Miles, just assumed that when it came up, they could save both.
Really, I don't know why Miguel is so worried. He KNOWS that Miles is going to fail unless someone else intervenes. It's canon, that's how it works. His most logical course of action should be to lock up Gwen and Peter for two days and just let things run their course.
>He KNOWS that Miles is going to fail unless someone else intervenes.
Technically they already did, Miles now has knowledge of his dad being in trouble so he can plan around it instead of flying by the seat of his pants right at the moment.
You might be right. I'm operating under the assumption that, even if you know the event is coming and try to prevent it, you still get tossed into it regardless. The event HAS to happen. And once you're in it, only outside interference can stop it. But that might be wrong, being able to 'predict' when an event occurs makes it pretty set in stone, doesn't it?
What do you mean? Like Miles, every Spider-Man assumes that, when their canon event comes, they'll be the one that manages to do both and save the day. And then they fail, canon is maintained, and they go to the society where literally every other Spider-Man tried and failed and tell the new guy that he's not gonna be 'the one.' And then that new guy goes 'nah, I'll totally be the one!'
That doesn't explain anything
These things make Spider-Man and harden his resolve, not make him a depressed complacent sad sack
Uncle Ben died? Oh it was for the greater purpose okay then that makes sense. Not hard to figure coping is why religion exists
Wow what a way to miss the point of Spider-Man
>My righteous indignation can't you see I'm angry so that means my point is valid
Insufferable is the word
They were coping with the awful things in their lives
I'm assuming a lot of them already experienced most or all of their canon events already
And they don't sympathize with Miles because..
Because frick that homosexual, he doesn't get to be special.
I dunno, I saw the big ass hole that I'd created a moment ago in someone else's dimension.
That said, characters acting emotionally instead of acting like 100% logical robots at all times is not bad writing.
Because he's righ, we know this because he's black and he's better than Peter in any way
>MILES THIS SUBMARINE CAN'T TAKE 4000PSI OF WATER YOU WILL CRUSH YOUR PASSENGERS
>Nah imma do my own thing
Why did he do it?
Make low quality posts that don't enhance the discourse?
Every single piece of media featuring miles is like that.
Projection you are projecting
true
You know despite knowing Doctor Strange, Miguel doesn't go to him to ask why the universe shits itself if spiderman doesn't suffer or follow a certain path
Why don't the other spider people do that either?
Because Doctor Strange tells them, 'canonical events must be followed or else the universe shits itself; it's just the way it is. Do you want me to explain why the sky is blue while I'm here, dumbass?'
I'm just saying given the fact that villiains frick with spiderman and other heroes to this level, you'd think they'd think there is cosmic forces at work that's making spiderman suffer for some plan
>you'd think they'd think there is cosmic forces at work that's making spiderman suffer for some plan
We see the spider totem show up briefly in the end credits so they might be vaguely aware of them
well it clearly worked out for him if he's getting a third movie
He got all three before the first one finished its (disappointing) theater run, he is "Diversity Quota: The Character", no amount of failure will rid us of him
Moron, I was talking about how things worked out in the movie, existence clearly didn't cease to be, so he didn't have to listen to whoever said the first line
So what is the moral of the story? It feels very juxtaposed to No Way Home's story without a complete ending.
The moral is that Miles is always right and Miles could have saved Gwen/MJ/May/Ben/anyone else that Peter let die
This
>my own thang
He’s making the same thing Kingpin did in the first movie
the moral is that the concept of "canon" is an albatross around the necks of superhero comics that forces capeshit to never deviate from the status quo and to constantly rehash and reference "iconic" moments in a character's story at the expense of good writing.
But Miles is the only one out of all the Spider-Men in the movie to do that, all of them combined haven't repeated so many of Peter's storylines as he did
yeah, and the movie is arguing that Miles SHOULDN'T have to rehash Peter's storylines by following canon events.
Cinemaphile complained for years that Miles was an unoriginal character compared to Peter and now we have a movie that directly argues this is a bad thing. It's honestly refreshing.
But he is LITERALLY doing just that, in the comics and in the movie itself, while the movie is pretending he's the only one that doesn't, when the opposite is true
No, he was persecuted as Spider-Man because... uhhhh... his villain kept obsessively calling him Spider-Man every 3 words? The mystery gender blonde he met the last movie and had zero chemistry with became obsessed with him overnight for no reason? He was asked to not allow his entire universe, his dad included, to die? I don't know. Maybe you're just racist, dude.
You're not suppose to like him, you're suppose to root for Miguel like a normal person.
>No arguments
>Labels this, labels that
Kys
>have you never tried doing your own thing, pedro?
God, the “canon event” shit is the worst part of this movie. I understand status quo is fricking awful and is one of the main reasons why American comics suck, but character assassination via death cult was not the way to go about it. They could’ve easily made it just about multiple spideys coming together to stop the Spot, who is easily a multiverse tier threat.
What character assassination these are variations of characters
>You assassinated cowboy spiderman from earth 696969
Bro shut up your hot takes are not good
That's not a hot take at all though, pretty much anyone who has attachment any of these other preexisting Spideys didn't like them going s long with Miguel's shit. Jessica and Ben aren't even obscure one offs or AUs, they are from Peter's world.
Please read a Spider-Man comic one day. The ethos of the character is always trying to save people even when the odds are impossible. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is anathema to Spider-Man.
Isn't anon the one who pretends to not be a fricking tool who does what everyone wants? Haha just kidding, he's the biggest homosexual of all for copying the opinion of every Tweet and Youtube video he finds.
>Why am I supposed to like this guy again?
Because he refuse to bow to destiny and predetermination.
Why did they even bother explaining the idea of canon events to him? Seems like a liability, since they want to shut him out anyway.
the spot when you call him cute and scrunglely
If the universe called out and demanded you bow, would you?
Maybe OP is a dirty Chinese.
>Miles saves his father
>universe now kills both his father and mother
That's basically Miles plan.
Since its the police captain who has to die, all they need to do is get Mile's dad, explain the situation and get him to to refuse the promotion
Why didn't they just do that?
His canon event already happened, his uncle died. This movie makes no sense
>His canon event already happened, his uncle died.
It's two canon events, anon, a family/close friend first, then someone close who works in the police.
For 616 Peter, it was Uncle Ben, the Gwen Stacy's father.
They never talked about THE canon event but A canon event.
Anon please use your words and stop green texting at me
A Spiderman who finds joy in his work was so fricking refreshing.
Spider-Verse should've been an anthology instead of this shitshow
His enthusiasm was infectious accent was alittle hard to make out
YIIK themed Spiderman
>Black kid doesn't want to be fatherless and works to save his law-abiding father
>This is now a crime
Typical right-whingers.
>God is literally existence, that's what he is, read Thomas Aquinas.
He's actually even above existence and nonexistence, according to Pseudo-Dionysius at least (who Aquinas was inspired by)
Didn't miles already break canon by getting bitten? His universe hasn't imploded yet
Miguel claims that blonde Peter dying and bequeathing the spider title to Miles was the universe's way of fixing itself.
Did he actually say that? That seems like something that would stand out more.
Not really. Miguel's own story of how he broke canon pretty much hints at there being more factors to this. It's just that the Canon event Miles is specifically trying to avert serves as a common thread among Spider-Men.
Yes when he's giving his screeching speech to Miles on the train he says it's his fault the original Spiderman of his universe died for him being bitten by the anomaly spider.
Ah. Looking back on it, he doesn't state the universe corrected itself. The way I see it is that he's blaming Miles for being there and, by having Spider-Powers, inadvertently distracting Peter, which ended up with him being forced against the collider energy and ultimately kicking off all these multiversal anomalies. I know the naysayers are going to get up in arms about this, but I think that the Spiderverse movies have ultimately been setting up time-shenanigans. I don't expect a timeloop where everything gets reset, but Spot's behavior and words, on top of Layla's model of the Spiderverse suggest something along those lines being a possibility.
So canon events don't have to happen the exact same way Miguel believes?
This disproves his idea of "canon".
It's why Miguel is so batshit seething at Miles. Despite being an anomaly the universe just bends backwards and kills a Peter to allow Miles to be spider man but when Miguel tries to find happiness for once the universe fricking implodes.
>MILES THE ANIMATORS WILL DIE OF EXHAUSTION IF YOU KEEP OVERWORKING THEM
>nah, Imma have my own movie
This
whyte bois gotta make the movie or else they racist
lets be honest, if it was peter or any one of his clones. You would be sucking him off for doing this as an act of heroism
It's Miguel's fault in the fricking first place. How are you gonna tell somebody "Hey your dad is gonna die lol" and expect them to not act?
Making a second movie about multi-universe shit was a stupid fricking idea.
You're right, he doesn't come as likeable in this movie, at all. He's insufferable, even by angsty teen standards. "i beat them all", he says. wienery bastard. That being said, poor frick is just a victim of right time, right place, or wrong time wrong place, depending on your optics. Also, if Gwen, who's EVEN MORE insufferable than Miles, just stuck to her fricking mission, none of this multiverse implosion shit would be happening.
Can't wait to see how all this concludes.
Because Miguel's whole doctrine is based on a theory
And the problem with the film is only providing one example of a universe being erased which is closely related to Miguel when if multiple examples were shown, then it would make sense why the rest of the Spider-verse were convinced to side with him.
The film tries to also treat it that way though since a whole squad entered Indian Spider-Man's universe to seal the hole that formed which makes it appear that they've seen this shit happen multiple times before this incident and fully know what to do to stop it.
It’s easier to accept most lost someone precious and this was the reason why
It removes agency from them and it helps with the cope
>and fully know what to do to stop it
See, this is the problem. Miguel explicitly states that they need to be "lucky" to stop Curry Spider-Man's entire dimension from unraveling from just one break in "canon". He's not just making shit up, his own experience and the fact other Spider-Men are on the scene with technology designed to try to fix the unraveling is about as much proof as he needs to show the audience.
>Why am I supposed to like this guy again?
He’s black. The Western world’s second favorite race behind israelites.