Monkey Wrench third episode, "Us & Them", is out on Newgrounds.
https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/911606
What did you think of it, Cinemaphile?
Monkey Wrench third episode, "Us & Them", is out on Newgrounds.
Monkey Wrench third episode, "Us & Them", is out on Newgrounds.
https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/911606
What did you think of it, Cinemaphile?
Beebs is still the best character. Shrike is annoying as frick.
After really thinking about it honestly Shrike feels like he is dragging the show down. I really like the animation, the voices and the humour, feels really genuine, but any time Shrike is there or does anything I just roll my eyes, he's not funny, he's not endearing, his design kinda sucks. Honestly if you rebooted this show without him it would only be an improvement.
Seriously, Shrike was an obnoxious prick in this episode. Unfunny, dragged the plot down, annoying voice. Even Blitzo from Helluva Boss is less grating than him.
First time watching this show and I hate Shrike's voice and everything he does feels like they're trying so hard to make this guy 'quirky' comedy relief, but hes just the worst.
Its sucks because the Gooseworx mushroom was actually a genuinely really sweet character and it laid out a lot of great worldbuilding and character work. Shrike just feels so out of place and hampers an otherwise good episode
Nah, Blitzo is way more fricking annoying. At least Shrike isn't saying frick every third word.
Suggesting anything by Zeruel is worse than anything by Vivzie without proof is sinful.
Damn, you’re right. The wrong kind of characterization is something I worry about when writing my stuff
>At least Shrike isn't saying frick every third word
I'd prefer that over the constant gratuitous Spanish. Its fricking insufferable.
It's just tasteless characterization vs el tasteless charactizatono
I prefer the spanish.
Shrike is a combination of knock-off Cheech Marin and knock-off Adam Sandler’s goat.
I think it's just his voice.
It's painfully obvious the whole show is Zeruel trying to make ATHF in space.
They're not similar beyond the annoying loudmouth and his black-coded serious friend dicking around instead of doing their jobs (pretty sure ATHF dropped that after the first few eps).
There's just a certain style or flair that the OG design had in comparison to the newer design. That and I'm not feel Shrike's revamped personality either, it's almost modern family guy in terms of being annoying.
that design is extremely Newgrounds and I love it
Agreed
I can see why it was changed tho, looks like a pain to animate
That is the most JRPG outfit I have ever seen.
I don't know why but it gives me edward elric vibes
Beebs is fricking boring and a bepop rippoff
Beebs is kinda hot, i won't lie to myself anymore
why not youtube?
Zeurel already warned he would make an early release on Newgrounds, while YouTube one would be days later.
Newgrounds (more specifically, the NG Money Gang) paid for a sponsorship that let's this cartoon air a week earlier on Newgrounds before being posted on YouTube.
The NG Money Gang?
The NG Money Gang is a thing Tom came up with to try and secure funds for sponsorships for creators on NG.
https://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1527587
He succeeded and now Newgrounds has a small group of users willing to fund cartoons that are popular/promising looking. Their first success was with Salar Fingers 13:
https://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1528180
Then their next target was Monkey Wrench episode 3 (and they succeeded obviously):
https://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1529511
Someone made a theme song for'em, too:
https://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/1242390
So, I guess if you've been consistently posting good stuff on Newgrounds and its popular, it might get sponsored by this group of internet philanthropists. I'm placing my bets now and say they're going to cover the funding for episode 2 of Punch Punch Forever, whenever that is. I hope I formatted this shit correctly.
>and its popular
that'll be bad in the long run
you don't just do this sort of thing for the stuff already made by well-established people you also gotta give a chance to smaller creators with good ideas, it'll just be nepotism all the way otherwise
Zeurel only got a chance because the NG guys know him, if he was any other person that made some mediocre show they would not give him a shot
I don't think MW is terrible though, it does have potential to be better but I don't think something mediocre should get special treatment just because people know the guy who made it
I agree with that. My theory (or cope, I guess) is that they're testing the waters with people they know they can trust with the animation equivalent of federal grant money. Maybe they'll be ballsier down the line with collabs or Steam games.
Do you have any idea how much shitty animation is on NG? It’s a lot. The cream tends to rise to the top and the good animators who release things regularly (even short little clips) tend to find their audience. Popular on NG doesn’t necessarily mean popular in the rest of the world, but it does mean that the money won’t be completely wasted on some weeb who will jerk off the money away. What will be made is likely to be relatively good. By funding popular creators, you’ll also be making things that the majority of the community actually wants. Front page the little guys so they can grow, but give money to the tried and true.
If his work is mediocre what is good in unestablished Indies dude
Don't expect people to hunt around in your head to understand what you mean so they learn how you think
Because frick YouTube
Youtube ass-raped itself with the no adblocker thing
You can use adblocker now.
>Youtube ass-raped itself with the no adblocker thing
>More people are aware of ad-block than ever before
>Google attempting to block ad-blockers challenged developers of said ad-blockers to work around them inadvertently making them stronger
>Less revenue for YouTubers and even less for people who make internet cartoons
>YouTube has a tendency to automatically flag animation as "For Kids" if its being too inoffensive and wholesome
>If the animation is too mature and experimental, it may be demonetized and age-restricted for not being advertiser friendly nor following community guidelines
Why do some people pursue indie animation? Are they masochists?
A broken clock is still right twice a day, I guess.
>Why do some people pursue indie animation?
Because they found alternative forms of funding such as via merchandise, or Patreon
or they do it as a fun little hobby.
>Why do some people pursue indie animation? Are they masochists?
still less soul-crushing than wage slavery
I love this fricking cat, everything he does and say is funny.
Another great episode, can't wait for Cinemaphile to be oddly hostile about it for some insane reason.
>can't wait for Cinemaphile to be oddly hostile about it
He's has the laziest character design.
A cat in a astronaut suit.
I like his stupid silhouette face, tho.
Simple isn't bad anon
You just proved anon’s point
I'm not the only one who thinks the cat looks like he's wearing a diaper, right?
Are you into that? I don’t see it at all
You don't see the big, puffy bulge between his legs? How it goes evenly all around the rear area of his little body?
And yeah, I'm kinda into it...
It’s not even worth that
alright you've convinced me, i'll check this out
Easily the best episode because the cat is actually funny and the direction leaves some breathing room to build a modicum of atmosphere, instead of drowning everything in puns and bedeowdeowdeow guitar riffs.
i'll wait for the youtube upload
What difference does it make? You're watching it for free either way.
I don't use newgrounds.
Well, not much I can do about that.
Just click the link to watch. Why does it fricking matter?
Based frick newgrounds and the untalented israelites like Tom fulp
>insulting the nicest guy on the internet
Is everyone just too nice to tell Zeurel that this series really isn't good?
Dude's a fantastic animator and is really talented, but boy: his actual content is really weak.
Feels like he's surrounded by animation circle yes men.
>Feels like he's surrounded by animation circle yes men.
they're all like that because they really want to convince people that indie animation is just as valid as the big-budget stuff
except without any real filtering of the shit, it's a self-defeating purpose because no one wants to be the one to point out when something is mediocre or just bad
without any real standard that's exactly why shit keeps getting made
You speak as if the industry isn't lucky when it makes something mediocre
It's not a merit-pushing system, independent artists don't need someone to toss out meritorious work as the industry does consistently
Guy what are your thoughts on Bane?
He's me
Shut up shut the frick up you dont mean that
Yes I do
I hate you
Shrike drags everything down with his slow ass line deliveries. Whip your VA or get another one
my son loves his cocomelon
Anyways I'll take draw requests for the thread since I really enjoyed this episode
Draw him sitting on Shrike's head painfully kneading it
Boringgay(s)
Mine is way fricking better than farting or dying
Didn't mean to include you, sorry.
Its all good bro
Very smug, nice
Hell yeah looks fricking awesome
Wow didn't expected something that good, I thought you were going to draw some shitpost on paint
Draw him getting choked to death.
Draw him braping
Us in a suggestive pose
Scratch and Shrike flipping each other off
Won't the team make more money if we watch on YouTube
Zeurel made the questionable decision to post MW to its own youtube channel now that obviously gets a lot less attention that when it was on his own youtube channel. so if anything, its now making less money from youtube than it did before. even if he just still kept uploading the videos to his own channel *in addition* to posting them on their own seperate MW-only youtube channel, that'd have been better for him financially
Why did he do that? How could he think that was a good idea?
Viz and Glitch use the same channel for all their shows and it obviously helps alot when kickstarting news shows, e.g. Amazing Digital Circus.
So dumb.
Probably the idea that since it's its own entity, the algorithm will give it more attention in some odd way
I'd imagine whenever Youtube recommends his own channel's videos it only ever shows people his Vinesauce videos or the animations he does for Lythero's unfunny streams
So by having MW be its own channel, Youtube is more likely to recommend it
BUT Zeurel still would've had a better time having it be attached to the main channel
dammit i thought i psoted this hours ago
tom fulp gave zeurel funding money in exchange for it releasing exclusively on Newgrounds first
he said it's because when the algo boosted him from views to the show, it would push his older videos and not Monkey Wrench, hence the change
>tom fulp gave zeurel funding money in exchange for it releasing exclusively on Newgrounds first
Man I love Tom and he's a great guy but I feel like that wasn't a good idea
Whatever, frick YouTube, and as long as Zeruel gets some kind of funding
Zeurel needed funding and Fulp wanted to drive traffic to NG. For how much Zeurel got, I think he came out on top for this deal. They can still release it on YouTube in like a week. Fulp did Zeurel a solid.
Yeah but the haters will point at the diminished views on YT and screech about how it's all over
It's possible Fulp doesn't really care about returns and just wants to help Zeurel. It's not like he's short on money.
Bless him for that. I bet he’s helped many like Zeruel
Fairly boring, overall. The most egregious thing for me, personally, was the pacing that the dialogue/animation had, it felt like there was extra space in both cases that didn't need to be there, and it really made watching the episode a slog. The story seemed to take forever to get to the point of its conflict. Some of the voice acting was hard to understand, which didn't help matters.
Beyond that, though, it's mostly nitpicking—there's noticably inconsistent animation (which I can forgive, though it does give the feeling of this episode being "cobbled together"), some weird sound design choices that didn't quite match what was going on (mixed in with other sound design choices that I do think are an improvement—I remember hearing about a new sound design guy?), among other things, which starts getting into personal preference territory. The interactions between Beebs and Us and Scratch's voice work were the highlights, though! I found the former touching, at its best.
I have to agree with this, the beginning definitely felt a bit slow with it's dialog, but then later the dialog and breathing periods felt much more natural at least. Especially after Shrike was able to yell at the cat, so it had to get a bit more fast paced.
Overall, it's free and I can't really complain.
Well, Cinemaphile? Were his efforts justified, or is Monkey Wrench still a total dud?
Frick me man, numbers don’t lie. If he can’t make a solid 5 figures per episode, then this series is fricking dead. I’m sorry.
Zeurel is a highly skilled artist and animator, no doubt. But he still keeps trying so hard to make Monkey Wrench look studio-quality when it's something he so clearly can't afford. There are two easy steps to improve things: (1) leave more of the workload in your own two hands since you're already capable of handling everything when it comes to visuals, and (2) know when to cut corners so you won't have a nice day making the show. There are ways to cut down on frame count and specific character animation while still keeping things appealing. Work to your strengths and avoid having to rely on a bigger team you can't even pay.
What about the writing? Who can he hire to help with that?
Anyone, literally anyone at all. But I still can't tell if Zeurel's caught on that his writing and characterization aren't vibing with a lot of people.
He's got the 'iconic duo' basics down: a level-headed voice-of-reason type paired with a loose cannon protagonist. Shrike & Beebs SHOULD work, but they're just… there. Nothing about their dynamic gets me excited to see more.
I just finished watching the episode and one thing that stuck out to me was that the development at the end felt egregiously unearned.
>Episode starts off with Shrike and Beebs arguing over using the wienerpit
>Shrike then spends most of the ep arguing with the cat
>Beebs spends the episode chatting with the Fungi
>One conversation between them about no regrets
>Suddenly at the end Beebs is interested in Shrike's show and Shrike is considerate about the Beebs' banjo playing.
Nothing really occurred that made it feel like this understanding came about naturally. The only thing there was Beebs walking Shrike through the guitar playing towards the end of the climax, but even that didn't feel too relevant. This isn't something that should be hard to do in a 30 minute timeframe.
this is spot on.
it feels like the writer saw how other shows end like this but didnt understand WHY they end like this. They just sort of said 'oh at the end they're nice to each other because its the end of the episode' without any proper build up or development.
Feels like an afterthought, like he reviewed what he had already done at a late stage of production and realised that there was no final payoff (like his previous episodes). Feels like a quick attempt at fixing this.
God, yeah, this too. It's a real shame, too, I remember seeing Zeurel talk about putting effort in his writing to make sure it'd come out good and even giving advice about writing to others and then it turns out that his own writing is just kind of crap anyway.
> and even giving advice about writing to others
Oof. That sucks. Animation tips? Yes. Writing tips? Perhaps keep those nuggets of wisdom to yourself until you find some sort of accredited recognition for your skills…
Is there any book that you recommend on pacing and storytelling in general? I can easily point out this episode and other web series flaws but when I think about it finding your own flaws and limitations on this field is nearly impossible, it's so much easier to judge your own drawing than your own story.
I guess that's the reason why those review youtubers always fail miserably when they try their own show.
It's always easier to find flaws in the works of others. It's always a good idea to let others review your concept before going all in.
Unfortunately for Zeurel, it seems he is surrounded by yes men that are too afraid of pointing out his flaws.
Zeurel has always been one of the big bro figures of both Newgrounds and Deviantart, he was an early 20s professional animator while everybody else were teenagers with very basic knowledge on animation or art, now he's like 40 and an industry veteran.
I think no web animator or artist in general will dare to ever say on his face that he's doing something wrong, even if he's a nice guy.
I tried to help out a friend of mine with his writing a few years back. Some of his ideas were good as-is, but others were either bad or needed work. Dude took the constructive criticism the wrong way and our friendship completely disintegrated. He was surrounded by yes men who’d say everything he wrote was good, while I was the only guy being real with him. Dude ended up hating me for that. Some people just think their shit don’t think.
The truth is that nobody likes criticism and very few are even capable of taking it. Most people rely on sheer talent or forced collaboration to get anything done so in the indie world this isn’t possible
Without criticism nothing good gets made.
It's not a matter of talent, it's just a matter of learning the craft
Zeurel is not the best writer ever but I can confidently say his storytelling is improving every episode. I think we can all agree episode 3 is much better than episode 2 that was considerably better than 1.
Absolutely. I think the pacing is still a bit off, but the dialogue between beebs and them is pretty great and them's tale is genuinely gripping.
I love filmcow's "serious" work, like the finale and shadowstone park. The dude knows how to write interesting stories about how much he hates the government and corporations, and I'm not saying that ironically
I think the idea Zeurel was going for was
>Beebs argues with Shrike
>Beebs learns the sad fungi backstory of losing his partner
>Beebs draws parallels to the relationship he has with his own partner
>decides to indulge him and spend time with Shrike since you never know if one of them bites the dust tomorrow
Could've put a little bit more spotlight on this angle, but funny cat.
Thankfully the argument at the beginning wasn't super melodramatic, so the indulgement at the end didn't feel like a total betrayal of character.
The sad reality.
looking at the other episodes, shrike isn't some stubborn hardass, he listens to beebs pretty well, they're both competent, and he pretty much very rarely messes up any responsibilities.
If anything I think Beebs is too much of a Gary Stu.
I agree that shrike is kinda boring but to say he is annoying and useless despite him not really messing any missions up himself, or being a major foil is wrong.
I think the thing Zuerel sucks at the most is the marketing side of his series.
>People clamor about wanting plushies of the black cat, the most popular monkey Wrench character
>Use black cat as marketing stunt to sell plushies of the two ugly MCs
>When finally time to make plushie of the cat, pair him with another character instead of just by himself
>Now struggles to sell plushies of the most popular character because he baited people too long and put him alongside a character no one cares about.
The frick? Making a plushie of the obvious mascot character’s a no-brainer. Is he moronic?
The designs of the characters do NOT work well as plushies either, especially not in Makeship's copypasta plush template
Honestly i dont think the plushes look bad at all
>Calling the show monkey wrench
Don't forget this one, it's named after a not so uncommon household tool and the first google searches are about that.
Why even call it that??? The only relation with the show is that their merc team has that name as seen on episode 1 but I don't recall it ever being mentioned since.
Why didn't zeurel just call them something else more distinct that is actually character related?
The guy probably made it based on TV shows names rather than you know playing by the Google Algorythm rules.
anon hit a bone, huh?
don't worry, maybe for your next project you'll devise an actual, thematic name!
i didnt know his new show was called Monkey Wrench until last week when i sat down to watch it and my brain keeps conflating the title with Monkey Bone no matter how hard i try to rewire the neurons
Well gee, no wonder more people aren't making cartoons.
>$8000 for music
What the actual frick? For one episode? I could buy $1000 for 30 minutes worth of scoring, but $8000?
Those guitar riffs don’t come cheap
>Gooseworx was the fungi person
Neat.
Also saw the Lackadaisy crew was specifically thanked in the credits.
I'm sure the bulk of the cost is in licensing.
It's one thing to pay for music to be produced, it's another to use that music in a way that you can profit from such as used in an animation. Even if it's only 1k for scoring, would you really just charge that little then give it away to someone who has the potential generate far more money from it?
$1000 for 30 minutes? Get fricked.
>60% of animations done by Zeurel
This image is inaccurate then because what is done by him costs nothing.
Why would you considering your time on costs when you are doing this on your free time? This is not is actual job!
It's the money he would make working at the industry as a regular animator or demand if someone else hired him to do this work for them.
Also Zeurel is not a teenager, he's a nearly 40 year old with his own family to take care of, when you are in that situation free time being "free" no longer makes any sense specialy when you know the exact cost of the service you are doing.
That just makes it even sadder. Dude’s a good animator but a shit storyteller. Guys like him were never meant to have their own show, but to just work on other people’s projects.
Or they need a co-writer or editor, remember how Jack Kirby was the main idea guy and artist on almost anything big at Marvel but everyime Stan Lee wasn't around to tell him to change some key detail his ideas flopped
Most people don't know but Akira Toryiama said several times that he would be a nobody if Kazuhiko Torishima didn't made massive changes on both Dr Slump and Dragonball
>Akira Toryiama said several times that he would be a nobody if Kazuhiko Torishima didn't made massive changes on both Dr Slump and Dragonball
And it’s also why unedited Toriyama sucks and doesn’t resemble what people loved about Dragon Ball in the first place. DB didn’t get popular in Japan until the first tournament. It’s the same reason why DB failed in the US the first two times. No one liked the first arc.
I liked the first arc, but yeah, Toriyama’s career would be doa without him. And how does he repay him?
>Yo, Toriyama, these villains aren’t intimidating enough. Make one based on the guy you hate the most.
>Say no more. proceeds to make a villain based on torishima
I love their relationship, is the perfect example of a passionate artist having to balance what is marketable to sell with what is fun for him to create which in this case was literally NEVER drawing or writing what was fun to him and the moment he got rich enough to retire he desperately tried to frick off the fastest possible. Is a good reminder to poor naive fools who think whatever they shit will sell if they love their work so very much.
Come on, it can’t be that black and white in the creative process
>“If investing is entertaining, if you're having fun, you're probably not making any money. Good investing is boring.” — George Soros
>George Soros
Ok, glowie, you’re probably right. But still.
>DB didn’t get popular in Japan until the first tournament
that's not true at all what the frick?
Yeah the tournament helped but DB was already doing well because of the anime and merch which got made well before that point in the story, Toriyama was coming off of making Dr. Slump which was incredibly successful for SJ
Exactly. Creatives are only human and not every idea they have is going to be good. That’s why they need someone with an impartial view on their work to edit their shit.
That’s what Bill hader said was his experience when he was at Pixar too.
oof
>but to just work on other people’s projects
Any indie or industry team would be lucky to have him on board but If I was an indie animator I wouldn't work for anyone but Glitch, they are the only ones that shill their animators and voice actors, Vivizie, Egoraptor, Jaiden Animations and Joel G just hide everybody on their shadow.
Either that or make sure you will get "Co-Creator" credit alongside the writer, because a simple "animator" will have their name hidden just to be replaced at some point.
Name 6 from glitch that are doing something
Goosworx doesn't count
Not including the voice actors such as Kovach? Kevin Temmer already got way more spotlight for managing the animation so far than any other person hired to do a similar job. Had Temmer worked for Vivzie or Jaiden everybody would be shocked if you told them he ever did anything but "delete this tweet".
>Dude’s a good animator but a shit storyteller.
that's true of like 99% of animators
you can either be good at animation or storytelling
or be sub-par at both, or absolutely dogshit with one and great with the other
>absolutely dogshit with one and great with the other
Wow, like FilmCow. They dropped the Charlie the Unicorn finale roughly two years ago and while the animation was limited like it always was, the writing and world building within those 40 minutes were stellar. The way the prior episodes were echoed in the B-plot of Nyx and the lore of the blue and pink unicorns turns the entire series on its head and gives Charlie a bittersweet release when its all over.
I haven't seen that one. I'm gonna go watch it later.
It’s because in every episode there’s no payoff, too many characters, and a lot of stupid jokes.
For crying out loud, the first episode was about a brat that didn’t want to go home so he caused nothing but grief. The ending for the first episode is so disappointing that I almost don’t want to watch the rest. Same for episode 2, they let an entire race of people die for a weak reveal. It’s making me realize how badly nihilism has ruined storytelling and how little of an impact the characters have. Shrike, who should be the most sympathetic, is the worst. That’s always a tight-rope to walk, making a likable butthole, which Zeruel unfortunately fails to do.
Fricking hell, poor Zeruel. Writing’s way harder than it looks. I’m thankful he’s doing other animations that aren’t this
>click on music guys xitter
>First fricking tweet is political
WHYYYYY WHY WHY WHY STOP IT
Who?
The skinny dude sounds so much like Doof from P&F
Without any of the charm?
I don't get the hate, I thought it was pretty good.
how many times do I have to tell you? THIS IS BORING
So what's the hook here besides SPACE?
It's Cowboy Bebop with Earthworm Jim and Donkey Kong
Donkey kong?
You know, the video game character who’s blue and collects rings.
Anyone got that pic of one of his tweets congratulating another animation success (lackadaisy I think?) and lamenting that Monkey Wrench isn't as successful
Is Zeurel gonna be alright? Seems like he spends every waking moment pissed that his little passion project hasn't taken off.
I think he's smart enough to know ADC is an extreme outlier you can't measure yourself against
I understand his frustration, but his choice of production is kind of a dead on arrival pick. Sci fi space adventure isnt exactly a great genre. Guardians of the Galaxy worked because it used relatable music and a relatable protagonist to make the sci fi shit palatable.
and if you wanna get shallow: no fap/shipping bait. I dont think anyone draws any of the characters fanart except maybe the cat.
WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO PULL OUT AN ACTUAL MONKEY WRENCH??
Yeah! When are those frickers going to Bioshock 1™?
Silly, they already have the wrench and the monkey!
The money wrench will probably be an important human mcguffin relic from the quarantine zone that was established in this episode.
it's in the logo
>file name
I think it’s fine, I just didn’t expect it to be so expensive
I can't help but wonder how Zeurel would feel if he saw this thread.
I've seen his twitch streams, he strikes me as the regular moralgay slightly woketard like most animators in the western indie scene.
I don't think he would ever frequent this place because Cinemaphile is for hecking natzees.
>I don't think he would ever frequent this place because Cinemaphile is for hecking natzees.
NO WEB ARTIST younger than 40 can resist Cinemaphile unless there is something very very wrong with them like that webcomic writer who stab his own hand every week, make no mistake every single one of them male or female, liberal or conservative, american or not lurk this place. Just like Kazerad said, this board offer content creators something they can't have on their circlejerks.
I can confirm Cinemaphile is a thing that every creative browses, but makes sure to tell no one that they do out of fear of getting 'cancelled' for associating with it.
>like that webcomic writer who stab his own hand every week
I really hate that I know you're talking about the paranatural guy just from this
This place was frequently visited by animators, indie and pro, prior to 2016.
Case in point: Motorcity has a Cinemaphile Easter egg.
Word is some still visit to gauge interest in their stuff, even if they aren't making it known that they're here.
>Motorcity has a Cinemaphile Easter egg
?
We went fricking apeshit when this was first spotted
I don’t understand
fuel can on the bottom
It really was a different time. Remember when Fiona was designed in an AT drawthread when Nat Allegeri came to visit? No way that would happen now.
That era of Cinemaphile truly was the best
There's a reason people would say Cinemaphile is love
>The era with a racist pedophilic mod that deleted anything he disliked was the best
i disagree, being banned for the slightest wasn't good
Zeurel trying to sell me on this so hard, and yet All I want is for Karl and Black Ace to have their long postponed duel of the fates
Tyneen has manboobs!
She's a flat queen
Kara Tiddies Kara Tiddies Kara Tiddies
His show might be shit, but now THIS how you handle such designs. Why cover when you have nothing to conceal?
It's a valid question... Are we talking merely 8ft tall? Or a proper thicc she-dragon from Shrek? Sheesh...
I'd prefer the latter
It really bothers me that without his vest on, Shrike looks like he's in red footie pajamas.
>wasting his talents and money on an unfunny cartoon when he could just keep animating Joel and co.'s stream clips
Let's Playing is dying anon, Pewdiepie just went from being the biggest youtube channel to 9th and there are only 2 let's players in the top 50 nowadays.
streaming =/= let's playing
lol =/= lmao
rolfcopter
His joel stuff is really well done and hilarious. it upsets me his passion project is such a bore and nowhere near as good.
It reminds me of Hiimdaisy who made the game comics about metal gear, zelda and persona, That shit was incredible. But their personal project is the most boring shit ever and you just wonder how they're the same person.
Some people just work better with established properties than making their own original works.
>No don't be an individual artist expressing yourself, be a part of the YouTuber slop machine regurgitating content and jokes about popular video games
There's not many artists who choose to be individualistic, just go to every other one
Didn't say he's not allowed to express himself. Its just a shame when they do, they end up being such a bore.
God you know this board is in a terrible fricking state when I have to agree with guy over everyone else.
Feels refreshing hearing a latino V
I felt sad about the mushroom friend
Monkey Wrench feels like a nice balance of space pulp and newgrounds style fron yester year
The action pretty nice as well
This episode was definitely better than the second to be honest
Can't wait for the cat chick to show up again. Or the semi-buff raptor-girl.
The main character is annoying, the designs aren't very good, ironically feels way too long for a 30 minute gag cartoon with some plot that feels incredibly uninspired. All the talent in the world doesn't make up for being boring.
>https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/911606
>30 minutes
Why? You're just making it harder on yourself to produce this show and for people to get into it
This. I had to mentally prepare myself before watching Episode 2 because I remembered the pilot feeling WAY too lengthy. Maybe my ever-shortening attention span is partially to blame, but I really do think it would help Zeurel to cut the story he's trying to tell into 10-minute installments instead. You can keep your same 9-month breaks between episodes. People will still be appreciative of shorter episodes, especially since they won't drag as much.
>First episode is packed with waifus of every type
> Next two episodes hardly feature women at all
Why did he do this?
What’s really weird is that NONE of them became a flavor of the month or anything. This series is so boring that hardly anyone is even paying attention to the women. I think the tall shark woman from MHA has ten times the amount of fan art than those ladies COMBINED.
This is also a challenge. Can any of (you) bring up fan art of any of these so-called “waifus”? A waifu should have a handful of fans at minimum. I bet they don’t even have cute fandom names
Zeurel is a fool, that's why.
Can't believe Shrike is fricking Jessica Rabbit made of goo
PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP
Now someone post the shots of Kara from ep 3
Its on Newgrounds do it yourself Furgay
I must agree, there is no reason for it to be 30 minutes, it should be 10 to 15 minutes, there is simply no content for it to drag it for that long, plus think about it, if they want to make 5 episodes it will be 2 hours and half of animated content, if it was just 10 minutes it would be 15 episodes by now. 30 minutes is both pointless and simply not feasible.
>it should be 10 to 15 minutes
Agreed. The pacing would improve greatly as well.
10-15 minutes might be too little but it could have been shortened to around 20 for sure. There's a lot of pointless dialogue and awkward silences that could be cut out.
good point.
Everyone looks so fricking ugly and it just feels like a generic web series which it is.
Screw you, the designs are super charming. The visuals are Monkey Wrench's strong suit
They’re certainly unique and memorable in a good way, I’ll give it that. It’s major weakness is it’s writing and tonal whiplash
The use of artificial gravity boots in the pilot was really cool
yeah ikr
If there’s a good hallmark for writing, it’s an innocuous setup with a good payoff.
thiccums
The runtime should be 10 minutes per ep, the animation budget should be reduced to a third, the style should be more cartoony, the characters need a serious redesign, part of the cut budget should go to hiring an actual decent writer.
>part of the cut budget should go to hiring an actual decent writer.
But anon… Think of the damage that would do to Zeurel's poor poor ego!
Does he have an ego?
>only on Newgrounds
So it was sent to die, huh?
This show has its own channel separate from Zeruel’s main one. It’s DEAD.
come to your gay rim
Regular Zeurel W
Based. Monkey Wrench HAS potential and is already mighty impressive for an indie cartoon, Zeurel just needs to be open to hearing ways he can make it even better
Has the third episode gotten better?
Compared to the first two, absolutely. May just be my imagination, but I even understand Shrike a bit better.
Fine, I want Zeruel to succeed. I’ll check it out when I have the time
I would say episode 1 was a 5/10, episode 2 was a 6/10 and episode 3 is a 7/10, it's not fantastic by any means but the guy clearly is improving
Nice to see a little positivity in these threads, the show definitely seems to be finding its groove
Alright, that sort of increases my respect for him.
Honestly, I just want more non-Vivzie indie creators out there
Yeah, so do I.
I used to think Vivzie hate on this board was a meme until I found out she actually did a lot of stupid and bad things and half of twitter hates her for it. Was she always like that? I remember her as a nice quiet author when she was just a furry writing her deviantart webcomic
There are out there. You need to promote them.
I will
She’s a godless woman that thinks demons and angels are interchangeable. I hate her works on principle
Seems like Zeurel really does read these threads. Too bad he’s keen on keeping the voice actor for Shrike. Do you think Jacob Barrens feels even a little bit badly about being the single worst part of the entire production, or does he somehow convince himself that literally everyone complaining about his awful performance is wrong and chooses to listen to the minority of yes men who tell him what he wants to hear?
Considering his dedication to that moronic combover, I’m guessing it’s the latter.
He looks annoying and boring at the same time, like an butthole that’ll bother you for a ipa. Zeruel sure knows how to pick them
What in the hell is that hairstyle?
“Fat balding nerd trying to look ‘alt’”.
He’d do himself a favor if he just shaved it all off and grew the stubble a bit more.
That's genuinely awesome.
I’ll give him this, he isn’t a whiny b***h like 90% of other Cinemaphile creators
At least he's trying but that's why it hurts to see him failing. He needs to rethink how he's approaching the project.
>At least he's trying but that's why it hurts to see him failing.
It only hurts because we can see how financially and emotionally invested he was expecting it to be a huge hit.
No one cared when Daystone had mediocre numbers because Vanripper even though a bit sad simply moved on to Helltaker right after, no one noticed that Joel G precious space goblin waifu flopping made him sad because he moved to ENA shortly after or Vivzie being sad at Zoophobia being forgotten because she moved to Helluva Boss, or even Glitch having TWO massive flops Meta Runner and Sunset Paradise before Murder Drones and Digital Circus, Zeurel is simply way more emotionally invested on it than the others, the guy just don't want to let Shrike go after 20 years of trying to make the character a thing.
Or Meatcanyon Monster Lab flopping because he went back to his creepy parodies
Or the dozen failed David Firth projects not called Salad Fingers
Liam Vickers had 2 sucessful works, Cliffside and Murder Drones, everything else failed
And Liam Vickers' "failed" series that he stopped doing in order to create Murder Drones, Internecion Cube, is still multiple times more successful than Monkey Wrench with a couple million views per episode.
Before that and Cliffside, Liam's previous projects weren't nearly as successful. He started out writing creepypastas and stories and shit, and reading them out to his viewers in a sort of audio-book format. And sometimes he'd create music and art to accompany said stories, growing his audience from that before he started to move onto animation and show-making.
Zeurel needs to learn that it's a gradual process of building up to a successful show. You can't just shit something out and expect it to be a success instantly, no matter how much effort and care you put into it. Continuing with the Liam example, he built of a specific audience for his shows for years before finally getting the hit he wanted with Murder Drones after having to leave behind his past projects that didn't work out as well like Cliffside and Internecion Cube,
god I fricking miss Internecion Cube
I think most artists specially the indie ones can't accept that sucess is a combination of skill, luck and marketing, that's why every single sucessful content creator ratio is like 10 failed projects for every sucessful story.
Which means you will have to fricking try several projects otherwise your odds will be astronomically low which means trying your best to make the best story you can possibly ever make and then move on to the next one and you will have to repeat this process over and over and over and over for years and years without ever being sure if you will ever make it
Which sucks, it really fricking sucks but it's the only way to win. Liam was blackpilled on it after his precious edgy fanfiction failed miserably and you will need to swallow this shit as well.
There's a difference between "failing miserably" and building up an audience over years of successive work. He started small and worked up his craft. It's called improvement.
I’d count it as a success to have your passion project posted anywhere in a public space, but by that metric, Chris Chan would be a huge success so…
There is undeniably luck as well, Cube had a fraction of Cliffside views, do you think Liam would be able to just create another 5 series as big as Murder Drones and Cliffside in a row? Of course he wouldn't, no creator can, if Liam could he would youtube animation Pewdiepie/Mr Beast by now with a deal with some big studio.
>do you think Liam would be able to just create another 5 series as big as Murder Drones and Cliffside in a row
Of course not, I was never implying that he could. My point behind bringing up something like Internecion Cube was in reference to a creator building up his work and seeking every avenue until he creates something that hits off. Yes there is undeniably an element of luck behind finally hitting it big, but it has to be in conjunction with cultivating an audience and proper management. And even WITH good numbers, using Cliffiside as an example, that's not a guarantee of your show ever becoming a thing. Like I said Liam was doing things pretty much on his own, he needed to build up enough experience as a showrunner until a production team like GLITCH could take him on to make an actual show. In that exact situation, the audience he built up through said previous projects are massively handy in securing an initial viewerbase for your new show.
Zeurl didn't just appear out of the ether.
He's had a small following for a long while, then really stepped into the spotlight with his vinesauce fan animations the past few years
His problem was giving this its own yt channel instead of using his own with his already captured fan base
Going even further, he should've gotten those same vinesauce guys to at least do cameos for him. Synergize that shit
>Going even further, he should've gotten those same vinesauce guys to at least do cameos for him.
He did. Vinny's in episode 2.
>Vinny
Do people actually like Vinny though?
Vinny watchers love Vinny, but he's definitely not a cameo that would wow some clueless rando, same with Joel.
Yeah, exactly my point in
.
Zeurel's problem is his successive string of stupid decisions actively hindering his show, and his improper handling in actually building it from the ground up, He's expecting it to be a success because "zeurel is that talented animator guy" rather than because of the show's own merits or the fact that it attracts a certain audience. The difference between Monkey Wrench and all other actually successful Indie cartoons is that their creators actually built up an audience, promoted their shows and cast a net for viewers, and didn't dump it on a fresh Youtube channel that is barely going to get any engagement (like you pointed out).
It's not that all aspiring show-creators need to have years of failed projects until they get lucky and succeed, it's that they need to build up an audience and build up their own experience of show-running through years of work before producing something that can finally be a full show.
I thought hands up was successful though?
I fricking hope that he actually improves the world building and remove the literal furries of
His show is just literally internet OC: the show
>His show is just literally internet OC: the show
You say that like it's a bad thing
Kara's paws pressing down against my face
Based
Based on what?
Mmm, pixelated gata culo.
Shut the frick up, Shrike.
LATEX!!!!!
this is the best episode so far, much stronger than the 2nd episode and more focused than the first.
Monke
I'm neutral about Monkey Wrench don't love it don't hate but god the dedication Zeurel has for his show is admirable I wish I had the same grind mindset
This, the guy’s a powerhouse. One who's a SKILLED animator at that!
I'm rooting for Zeurul
He just needs a good writer and I'm sure twittergays would fall in love with his world
>He just needs a good writer
Let him grow into one. This reminds me of how many old Newgrounds series and webcomics started out. I look forward to view Monkey Wrench in its entirety once it is finished or significantly further along at least.
Artgays cannot be writers
Creative disciplines don't work like classes in an rpg, you can do multiple things at once.
I’d argue they do, but there’s plenty of talented people out there
Art and writing are two separate skills. You can be excellent in one area but total ass in the other. Or you can be decent in one but competent enough in the other. All depends on the person.
He should ask ChatGPT what it thinks of his script.
By the way, ChatGPT told me that my movie script is great and can result in a popular movie.
Now I know ChatGPT isn't 100% reliable but I thought I'd make a post to tell you all about that.
What the frick is this post?
ChatGPT is very reliable in most cases with its deep learning architecture so it is more likely correct about my movie script being acknowledged by everyone as great than it is not.
i think its a bot because ive literally seen this post verbatim in other threads
where is tbis old lore your mentioning from? that albinoblacksheep short? i need to watch that since that seemed to be a prototype for this
Are you a ChatGPT?
In my opinion Monkey Wrench is most likely doomed in the long run HOWEVER this whole experience is clearly making Zeurel a better, more experienced writer, every episode is better than the last, I'm sure his next project will be considerably better.
I just watched it. Holy hell, that was so much better than the first two episodes. Please, Zeruel, for the love of God keep up this momentum
Also, Shrike isn’t that annoying at all, I don’t get what everyone’s complaining about him for
I liked that human lore was changed from singularity/robot rebellion to Mass Effect Green End, made more sense for humans to be hated/feared/known if the accidentaly wiped out a quarter of the galaxy. Nobody should care if some civilization was fighting robots on their own planet when there are millions of planets.
Hope he adds the human cyborg girl from the newgrounds fighr tournament, she was interesting.
Side note: the ships wit arms and handguns is more of an Outlaw Star thing than a Cowboy Bebop thing.
Where is the old lore? I don't remember it ever being mentioned in the other episodes other than the wanted posters and Shrike mentioning human made cartoons
Original prototype
Wow, a lot’s changed since for the better
Still think his old design would have had more appeal than Earthworm Hoek, with some slight adjustments to tap into the Digital Circus Tumblr Sexy Bunny Man demographic.
Some adjustments definitely necessary, an desing that's in between the current Shrike and the old one would've been preferable.
That said, don't really hate the current design that much besides his gross ass brown triangle fingernails.
>his gross ass brown triangle fingernails.
A woman made this post.
Is this a new troony recruitment tactic, cause iwnbaw
a nice little internet time capsule here
>realzing Shrike's old VA has followed me on twitter for years
what the frick
their face is literally on their YouTube channel
stop saying "they/their" you fricking homosexual
That girl with the mechanical arm has already been redesigned for Monkey Wrench and will apppear eventually, somebody leaked some patreon snippets of her.
He should have introduced her sooner for obvious reasons
im realzing now since that this was for an OCT a lot of the lore might not have even been his
What if Zeurel chose Joel Vargskeletor as Shrike's voice actor instead? Shrike would say random swedish words instead of spanish
Infinitely more preferrable.
that helmet gon' break
The whole "Humanity caused a cataclysmic event and are persona non-grata to all the other species in the galaxy" subplot is the main reason I'm interested in Monkey Wrench.
>The whole "Humanity caused a cataclysmic event and are persona non-grata to all the other species in the galaxy" subplot is the main reason I'm interested in Monkey Wrench.
What??
At least it's unique compared to the usuals
>HUMANS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT RACE IN THE UNIVERSE!
>humans are worthless apes
Frick me, that better not be Shrike behind that broken frame
Beebs might be human, but Shrike is sure ayylmao. He doesn't even have a nose.
Thanks, but who’s to say ayylmaos don’t transform now and again. There’s way too much going on, this episode was better because it was focused on much less characters
This was my favorite so far. Scritch and Scratch are very cute and likable. And the sexo girl at the end.
The vibe was enchanting. Magical with horror elements, very otherworldly immersive for me.
>And the sexo girl at the end
I'm glad she's not just a one off character and will show up more.
Karachads UNITE
I do feel she's missing a certain je ne sais quoi that's keeping her from getting Pomni-level popularity. Same for
.
>a certain je ne sais quoi that's keeping her from getting Pomni-level popularity
I think in her case its because she doesn't talk. I like it, because it makes her more mysterious, but I can see people not liking her as much because they have nothing to really go off of.
Also, I hope Zeurel keeps doing shots of her ass.
How did her mask get fricked up? I forget
Shrike used duct tape to trip her up causing her to break her mask and her wrist com thing.
cutie~
Oh, that’s fricking funny. I hope they make her trip up more.
>a certain je ne sais quoi
But what is the secret sauce? Do you just imbue a piece of your soul into a fictional girl and then viewers simply sense the appeal?
If she takes that mask off will she die?
I get her appeal, but she sucked the tension and fun out of the first episode with that weak reveal.
This is very cheap for an animated episode of this magnitude. This is no worse nor better than Duck Dodgers' animation.
It's really sad how indie animation has gotten better and even with this mediocre writing is still heads over heels over what most 2010s and 2020s garbage they air on CN and the Disney channel, what even happened to the NON CN, Nick, Disney channel that used to air animated shows such as Roswell Conspiracies? also any ETA on that 3D Earthworm Jim show? I was never happy with the 90s show they gave it.
>still heads over heels over
*still head and shoulders over
They have the luxury of time. Network animation has multiple episodes in production at once and needs to crank out a full season at a time. The schedules are absolutely insane. Indies can afford to put out like 1-2 episodes a year.
zeurel seems really attached to this idea, but at the same time he is learning from audience feedback what works and doesnt work
he's got his own pipeline, he's gotten legit showrunner experience out of all this, and he's able to pump out something of extremely high quality ESPECIALLY relative to the budget
his ultimate goal is probably to be able to raise enough patreon and merch cash to be able to ride this out as long as possible, but im sure he could just walk into viacom and get a season greenlit on paramount+ at this point. he's essentially made 3 pilots
Get real man. Nobody is buying indie pilots in this market.
I don’t care if it’s 300 pilots. I just hope he gets to complete his story somehow. Some people don’t even get that much.
I’m still bummed out for Piemations and his weak wrists
>I just hope he gets to complete his story somehow
after the 2nd ep didnt get as many views as he wanted, he did float the ideas of continuing the series as animatics or even webcomics
That would be awesome. But now I’m curious, does he even have one to tell?
>he did float the ideas of continuing the series as animatics or even webcomics
If episode 4 is the ending, give us soe kind of conclusion without feeling like a cliffhanger and the webcomic is a sequel then it's ok, otherwise randomly changing the format would make it a mess.
> im sure he could just walk into viacom and get a season greenlit on paramount+ at this point. he's essentially made 3 pilots
No. I’m pretty sure the idea was to get monkey wrench picked up. So far, nobody is biting (including audience)
Here’s the one where they’re cheech and chong
The whole mushroom aliens story and guitar playing gave me space dandy vibes.
>51k subs
Ooof ouchy
Zeurel better kiss Tom Fulp's ass to get another NG deal for episode 4 if it ever comes out.
It was a really bad move to give it it's own separate channel, I have no idea why they thought it would help, Vivizie, Pelo, joel G, Mike Salcedo, Vickers,MysteryBen27, Lord Bung and Glitch didn't, I don't think anyone did it.
I'd suck Tom Fulp's dick, he seems like a nice guy.
no homo?
Imagine instead of this, zeureul animated clas of 09.
>clas of 09
I don't follow
Class of 09 is overrated ironicshit that got 70k worth of ironic donations because people giggle at irony even though the sincere writing on the wall is, the guy has no idea what he's doing but will just play off his failure as "lol so ironic".
Zeurel IRL?
I would hope so. He's been making internet cartoons for so long that there's gotta be SOME kind of face reveal out there.
Fricking love it. Mainstream AAA devs/publishers forsaked us long ago regardless of the media form. More indie everything!
Cat
Another 30 minute indie space cartoon just dropped and it really made me appreciate Monkey Wrench more, even with all its flaws..