>literally ONE example
Why the frick are "people" on Cinemaphile so averse to just engaging with a given topic? Fricks sake. I genuinely despise you subhuman wastes of oxygen.
One assumes not. The staff members themselves probably don't even care as long as they're getting their paychecks.
Because the good guys are supposed to do everything themselves.
Which is dumb for a lot of reasons. This shitty attitude is how we get the Bat-God, where a single character is magically able to do literally everything and have masters degrees in every subject ever and be in sixty places at once.
Why is Cinemaphile perhaps the most immediately dismissive of all the boards? Cinemaphile, /misc/, etc. are not paragons of goodness but at least they seem to engage a bit more and seem to “sustain their rage” over the course of a few argumentative posts instead of just having an unsubstantial outburst and then saying little to nothing more.
Why is Cinemaphile perhaps the most “anal” of all the boards?
I always felt that Diana should at bare minimum have her own entourage of Amazon soldiers. She's a princess after all.
So did they interview each person and turn in a resume? Sign some waiver to not reveal secret identities? How much they make after taxes?
>So did they interview each person and turn in a resume?
Don't really see how else they'd get the job. >Sign some waiver to not reveal secret identities?
Naturally. >How much they make after taxes?
Hm. I would hope the fricking Justice League offers a living wage. It'd be kind of horrifically hypocritical otherwise.
>But only WW was premited to go to man's world.
Which was dumb to begin with. >How would that work? With the amazons have similar powers, weapons?
Sure. Or they're normals, but can mostly keep up because Amazon training hits different.
Okay but how would they react to man's world? Would the cops/militaries/or other supers be okay with them? Where would they live, with Diana? Their own home together or do they all have their own homes/lives?
>Okay but how would they react to man's world?
Depends. Some would be interested, some would just be here for the job, some would hate it. Part of the fun is variety. >Would the cops/militaries/or other supers be okay with them?
If they're okay with her, they'd likely be col with her underlings. Unless one of them was a huge a-hole or something. >Where would they live, with Diana? Their own home together or do they all have their own homes/lives?
It's always been weird that Diana very rarely seems to have her own house. But yeah, they could just bring treasure with them and use it to buy a place.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Now the most important question. Can I date one of them?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Maybe. Just be your best self and you might be able to win her heart, anon.
We've been over this, Heroic conflict tends to value an underdog to a degree. Having ranks of disposable goons isn't heroic and is usually pretty impersonal. That's why sidekicks are the solution to this problem, they're a lot more personal and don't usually tip the scales too heavily.
>Having ranks of disposable goons isn't heroic and is usually pretty impersonal.
Nonsense. Showing the hero being a good boss and treating their underlings with kindness and respect makes an easy contrast to the villain. Plus, if you can be arsed to put in the effort of making said goons into memorable background characters, this raises the stakes by making the audience care about what happens to them.
11 months ago
Anonymous
But you can't flesh out all your mooks, that's the impersonal part. They're just fodder. The Unheroic part comes from having a bunch of grunts doing the....grunt work. There's nothing that Mooks add that isn't better performed by a smaller team of more fleshed out characters and it makes the heroes seem cooler for coming up against greater odds.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>But you can't flesh out all your mooks, that's the impersonal part.
Sure, if you're a hack. Just pepper little bits of characterization here and there, have them do funny things in the background of shots... it's not that hard.
>The Unheroic part comes from having a bunch of grunts doing the....grunt work.
I fail to see how this is unheroic. This is starting to seem like a you thing.
>There's nothing that Mooks add that isn't better performed by a smaller team of more fleshed out characters
Said team are the sub-commanders. Wow, three seconds of thought solved that "problem".
>and it makes the heroes seem cooler for coming up against greater odds.
No, it makes the heroes look overpowered and protected by plot armor.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Amen
11 months ago
Anonymous
>if you're a hack
Having cute little moments of your mooks doing junk in the background isn't full fleshing them out. The entire joke is that they're faceless rank and file, even shows that focus on Henchmen usually make a point of this, the impersonal nature is the point and to play it straight would have to make a point of that too. >I fail to see how it's unheroic
Coming up against greater odds is more heroic. Sole Hero or Small team of heroes is naturally more heroic than a guy managing a small army.of thankless grunts. >Subcommanders
You're just adding more problems, since now there's levels of management. >No it makes the heroes look overpowered and protected by plot armor
Not if they're show to take actual peril and struggle while doing so.
It's not a ME thing it's a general cliches and conventions of writing, you asked WHY and this is WHY. There's nothing a large group of faceless grunts with little personality adds that isn't better accomplished by a smaller group with more personality. There's a reason why Batman has Robins and Batgirls and not a Cauldron. Because it's so much simpler and beneficial to make real friends and family for a hero than employees he doesn't really know.
The only reason you want mooks is a gimmick, which is fine, just don't act like it's a significant improvement.
11 months ago
Anonymous
So your background henchmen would be doing drills or manning the coms and other stations, you could have the main characters walk by a break area and a few of the boys are playing cards and cracking some jokes, etc. A few well done add ins like that makes for a much more vivid world. G.I. Joe was pretty good about it whether showing you the Joe's or Cobra's random stuff going on. If you always slip a main character into the scene, you don't waste valuable screen time and you can now sell your main character plus some henchmen in the toy store/online. Despicable Me did it well too with the henchmen.
With wonder woman you had Etta candy and the holiday girls from way back when they were about as heroic henchmen as you get, until Alfred pennyworth starts to ask about hiring some extra staff.
The Martian probably just read applicants' minds. I'm more interested in how they were recruited in the first place.
And iirc heroes didn't even reveal their own identities to each other unless they were close friends. It took the original seven members years before they revealed who they were to each other.
There's GI Joe. Pretty much any group where there's a bunch of extras in addition to a main group of characters. "Goons" would only be applicable to villains since that's what you'd call them.
We've been over this, Heroic conflict tends to value an underdog to a degree. Having ranks of disposable goons isn't heroic and is usually pretty impersonal. That's why sidekicks are the solution to this problem, they're a lot more personal and don't usually tip the scales too heavily.
>Stark Tower is empty >Bruce Wayne operates the entire company alone >Richards Foundation building is empty >Avengers tower is empty >SHIELD helicarrier is empty >The Sanctum operates entirely autonomously
when the heroes have goons theyre called employees. what a nothing question. You see them everytime someone has to bust in to give the solo character some news while theyre at "work". why do you want to see random no-name characters doing busywork for extended periods when the purpose of the media is to explore the main characters exploits. an issue or two probably exists of "a day in the life of an ___ employee" where they detail the goings on at any one of the listed but youre asking an empty question to begin with
Goddamn you're a boring butthole if that's what you think this is about. This is your brain on capeshit.
It depends. Like if they have a corporation or just a sidekick. I guess it's more exciting for the heroes to do shit themselves while the Villains can have armies but still job at the end of the episode.
>it's more excited for the hero to walk through entire armies by themselves with no effort
I thought mary sues were a bad thing, anon.
hundreds of interesting concepts and narratives and youre prattling on about why their underlings arent explored in any meaningful capacity. i already told you there are likely several stories of the company or group leaders taking interest in the wellbeing of their "goons" but you want to ignore all that and be a shitc**t and complain about "capeshit" that i dont even read. im a tourist here for franco-belgian comic color references and saw an interesting thread, im not some imaginary marvel fan obsessed with capeshit that you argue with everyday
It doesn't happen all the time but in some settings if the hero had an army or capable employees they'll 9/10 no diff any possible threat so, only having a sidekick or going solo leaves some suspense.
I fail to see how the good guys having some decent numbers is counter to maintaining suspense.
It doesn't happen all the time but in some settings if the hero had an army or capable employees they'll 9/10 no diff any possible threat so, only having a sidekick or going solo leaves some suspense.
It depends. Like if they have a corporation or just a sidekick. I guess it's more exciting for the heroes to do shit themselves while the Villains can have armies but still job at the end of the episode.
They are worried about teaching kids grey area morals at too young an age. Same reason most kids shows don't allow killing and have to use robot enemies so they can have a lot of combat action on screen.
Is Alfred Batman's only butler? Every version Wayne manor is a multi story stately home sat on top a grand estate you'd a whole team of ground keepers and maids just to keep the place from going derelict but I don't think there ever been anyone besides Alfred himself looking after the place and that's before you factor in his other duties as personal aide to the master of the house.
Drawing a size appropriate staff for Wayne manor would be time prohibitive. An IRL Bruce Wayne figure would likely have 1,000 or more of help, who would keep the mansion spotless for when he entertains financiers and others and masses of adoring fans, possibly even a private army who knows who he is. A lot of his rivals would have guessed who he is at night too.
But that's a whole lot of work and doesn't necessarily make money. Easier to pretend it just all works out some how and focus on the spectacle of Batman vs Freak Of The Week.
>1,000 or more
No way you'd need that many, Balmoral castle is the summer home of the british royal family and it only listed 50 full time staff when I looked it up, and as far as I know Wayne manor doesn't have a gift shop to run or sell tickets for guided tours or pony shows so you wouldn't even need half that 20-ish would be a more reasonable guess with maybe a few part time help brought in for big high society business parties.
Batman has thousands of employees. Superman has robots. Wonder Woman has the Amazons. Flash can talk to himself. Green Lantern has other Lanterns or constructs working under him. Finally, Aquaman has the Atlantian.
I feel like this kind of thing was more common with the classic pulp heroes. If I recall right, Doc Savage, the Phantom, and the Shadow all had a bunch of henchman. In Doc and the Phantoms case they took care of their headquarters and helped them do stuff and in the Shadows case they were his network of operatives and informants.
You literally just posted a cartoon where they have their own goons. What in the frick are you on about?
>literally ONE example
Why the frick are "people" on Cinemaphile so averse to just engaging with a given topic? Fricks sake. I genuinely despise you subhuman wastes of oxygen.
So do they know the Leagues real identities?
One assumes not. The staff members themselves probably don't even care as long as they're getting their paychecks.
Which is dumb for a lot of reasons. This shitty attitude is how we get the Bat-God, where a single character is magically able to do literally everything and have masters degrees in every subject ever and be in sixty places at once.
Why would they need to know the Question or Blue Beetle’s identities to mop the Watch Tower floor?
Why is Cinemaphile perhaps the most immediately dismissive of all the boards? Cinemaphile, /misc/, etc. are not paragons of goodness but at least they seem to engage a bit more and seem to “sustain their rage” over the course of a few argumentative posts instead of just having an unsubstantial outburst and then saying little to nothing more.
Why is Cinemaphile perhaps the most “anal” of all the boards?
>Why is this board I constantly harass with my low effort shit threads and cheap political bait treating me like I'm not welcome?
You said "never", it's important to remember that words mean things.
Because the good guys are supposed to do everything themselves.
What do you think sidekicks are?
Longbow in City of Heroes?
You make a good point. That would actually be interesting to see.
Let's create a hero now that uses mooks. Why do they follow the hero? Why is the hero okay with using mooks.
The leader of the Aquabats
Jerry from Totally Spies if you think about it.
>The leader of the Aquabats
The MC Bat Commander is more of the Batman to The Aquabats' Justice League.
The power of the MC Bat Commander is being able to do a backflip
I always felt that Diana should at bare minimum have her own entourage of Amazon soldiers. She's a princess after all.
>So did they interview each person and turn in a resume?
Don't really see how else they'd get the job.
>Sign some waiver to not reveal secret identities?
Naturally.
>How much they make after taxes?
Hm. I would hope the fricking Justice League offers a living wage. It'd be kind of horrifically hypocritical otherwise.
But only WW was premited to go to man's world. How would that work? With the amazons have similar powers, weapons?
>But only WW was premited to go to man's world.
Which was dumb to begin with.
>How would that work? With the amazons have similar powers, weapons?
Sure. Or they're normals, but can mostly keep up because Amazon training hits different.
Okay but how would they react to man's world? Would the cops/militaries/or other supers be okay with them? Where would they live, with Diana? Their own home together or do they all have their own homes/lives?
>Okay but how would they react to man's world?
Depends. Some would be interested, some would just be here for the job, some would hate it. Part of the fun is variety.
>Would the cops/militaries/or other supers be okay with them?
If they're okay with her, they'd likely be col with her underlings. Unless one of them was a huge a-hole or something.
>Where would they live, with Diana? Their own home together or do they all have their own homes/lives?
It's always been weird that Diana very rarely seems to have her own house. But yeah, they could just bring treasure with them and use it to buy a place.
Now the most important question. Can I date one of them?
Maybe. Just be your best self and you might be able to win her heart, anon.
>Having ranks of disposable goons isn't heroic and is usually pretty impersonal.
Nonsense. Showing the hero being a good boss and treating their underlings with kindness and respect makes an easy contrast to the villain. Plus, if you can be arsed to put in the effort of making said goons into memorable background characters, this raises the stakes by making the audience care about what happens to them.
But you can't flesh out all your mooks, that's the impersonal part. They're just fodder. The Unheroic part comes from having a bunch of grunts doing the....grunt work. There's nothing that Mooks add that isn't better performed by a smaller team of more fleshed out characters and it makes the heroes seem cooler for coming up against greater odds.
>But you can't flesh out all your mooks, that's the impersonal part.
Sure, if you're a hack. Just pepper little bits of characterization here and there, have them do funny things in the background of shots... it's not that hard.
>The Unheroic part comes from having a bunch of grunts doing the....grunt work.
I fail to see how this is unheroic. This is starting to seem like a you thing.
>There's nothing that Mooks add that isn't better performed by a smaller team of more fleshed out characters
Said team are the sub-commanders. Wow, three seconds of thought solved that "problem".
>and it makes the heroes seem cooler for coming up against greater odds.
No, it makes the heroes look overpowered and protected by plot armor.
Amen
>if you're a hack
Having cute little moments of your mooks doing junk in the background isn't full fleshing them out. The entire joke is that they're faceless rank and file, even shows that focus on Henchmen usually make a point of this, the impersonal nature is the point and to play it straight would have to make a point of that too.
>I fail to see how it's unheroic
Coming up against greater odds is more heroic. Sole Hero or Small team of heroes is naturally more heroic than a guy managing a small army.of thankless grunts.
>Subcommanders
You're just adding more problems, since now there's levels of management.
>No it makes the heroes look overpowered and protected by plot armor
Not if they're show to take actual peril and struggle while doing so.
It's not a ME thing it's a general cliches and conventions of writing, you asked WHY and this is WHY. There's nothing a large group of faceless grunts with little personality adds that isn't better accomplished by a smaller group with more personality. There's a reason why Batman has Robins and Batgirls and not a Cauldron. Because it's so much simpler and beneficial to make real friends and family for a hero than employees he doesn't really know.
The only reason you want mooks is a gimmick, which is fine, just don't act like it's a significant improvement.
So your background henchmen would be doing drills or manning the coms and other stations, you could have the main characters walk by a break area and a few of the boys are playing cards and cracking some jokes, etc. A few well done add ins like that makes for a much more vivid world. G.I. Joe was pretty good about it whether showing you the Joe's or Cobra's random stuff going on. If you always slip a main character into the scene, you don't waste valuable screen time and you can now sell your main character plus some henchmen in the toy store/online. Despicable Me did it well too with the henchmen.
With wonder woman you had Etta candy and the holiday girls from way back when they were about as heroic henchmen as you get, until Alfred pennyworth starts to ask about hiring some extra staff.
Are superheroes vigilantes that operate outside the law in this setting?
If so, not labour contracts, no taxes.
Big no no.
japan already did it
A lot of the pulp heroes had this gimmick. The Shadow and Doc Savage leap to mind.
Also Duplikate. Multiple man.
So did they interview each person and turn in a resume? Sign some waiver to not reveal secret identities? How much they make after taxes?
The Martian probably just read applicants' minds. I'm more interested in how they were recruited in the first place.
And iirc heroes didn't even reveal their own identities to each other unless they were close friends. It took the original seven members years before they revealed who they were to each other.
There's GI Joe. Pretty much any group where there's a bunch of extras in addition to a main group of characters. "Goons" would only be applicable to villains since that's what you'd call them.
Zordon from Power Rangers?
That's usually supposed to be the cops
We see mooks in Generator Rex, but they almost always die horrifically.
pretty sure some of them got caught sniffing super hero laundry
redshirts are basically that right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_(stock_character)
Look up 40K Imperial Guard.
Plastique was so hot in this. Too bad she appeared in one episode and probably died.
We've been over this, Heroic conflict tends to value an underdog to a degree. Having ranks of disposable goons isn't heroic and is usually pretty impersonal. That's why sidekicks are the solution to this problem, they're a lot more personal and don't usually tip the scales too heavily.
True, you are completely not wrong. But it could still be interesting to have at least one hero using mooks just for the uniqueness of the idea.
True
Superior Spider-Man had his army of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Men.
Good guys have sidekicks instead of goons.
I just like that they’re a Challengers of the Unknown homage.
>Stark Tower is empty
>Bruce Wayne operates the entire company alone
>Richards Foundation building is empty
>Avengers tower is empty
>SHIELD helicarrier is empty
>The Sanctum operates entirely autonomously
when the heroes have goons theyre called employees. what a nothing question. You see them everytime someone has to bust in to give the solo character some news while theyre at "work". why do you want to see random no-name characters doing busywork for extended periods when the purpose of the media is to explore the main characters exploits. an issue or two probably exists of "a day in the life of an ___ employee" where they detail the goings on at any one of the listed but youre asking an empty question to begin with
Goddamn you're a boring butthole if that's what you think this is about. This is your brain on capeshit.
>it's more excited for the hero to walk through entire armies by themselves with no effort
I thought mary sues were a bad thing, anon.
hundreds of interesting concepts and narratives and youre prattling on about why their underlings arent explored in any meaningful capacity. i already told you there are likely several stories of the company or group leaders taking interest in the wellbeing of their "goons" but you want to ignore all that and be a shitc**t and complain about "capeshit" that i dont even read. im a tourist here for franco-belgian comic color references and saw an interesting thread, im not some imaginary marvel fan obsessed with capeshit that you argue with everyday
You didn't read a word of what I typed.
I fail to see how the good guys having some decent numbers is counter to maintaining suspense.
It doesn't happen all the time but in some settings if the hero had an army or capable employees they'll 9/10 no diff any possible threat so, only having a sidekick or going solo leaves some suspense.
It depends. Like if they have a corporation or just a sidekick. I guess it's more exciting for the heroes to do shit themselves while the Villains can have armies but still job at the end of the episode.
They are worried about teaching kids grey area morals at too young an age. Same reason most kids shows don't allow killing and have to use robot enemies so they can have a lot of combat action on screen.
The good guys had mooks in Generator Rex.
They tended to die a lot.
Is Alfred Batman's only butler? Every version Wayne manor is a multi story stately home sat on top a grand estate you'd a whole team of ground keepers and maids just to keep the place from going derelict but I don't think there ever been anyone besides Alfred himself looking after the place and that's before you factor in his other duties as personal aide to the master of the house.
Drawing a size appropriate staff for Wayne manor would be time prohibitive. An IRL Bruce Wayne figure would likely have 1,000 or more of help, who would keep the mansion spotless for when he entertains financiers and others and masses of adoring fans, possibly even a private army who knows who he is. A lot of his rivals would have guessed who he is at night too.
But that's a whole lot of work and doesn't necessarily make money. Easier to pretend it just all works out some how and focus on the spectacle of Batman vs Freak Of The Week.
>1,000 or more
No way you'd need that many, Balmoral castle is the summer home of the british royal family and it only listed 50 full time staff when I looked it up, and as far as I know Wayne manor doesn't have a gift shop to run or sell tickets for guided tours or pony shows so you wouldn't even need half that 20-ish would be a more reasonable guess with maybe a few part time help brought in for big high society business parties.
SHIELD doesn't exist?
Batman has thousands of employees. Superman has robots. Wonder Woman has the Amazons. Flash can talk to himself. Green Lantern has other Lanterns or constructs working under him. Finally, Aquaman has the Atlantian.
that's for cowards
I feel like this kind of thing was more common with the classic pulp heroes. If I recall right, Doc Savage, the Phantom, and the Shadow all had a bunch of henchman. In Doc and the Phantoms case they took care of their headquarters and helped them do stuff and in the Shadows case they were his network of operatives and informants.
I remember seeing a few examples of it happening, but I can't remember the shows off the top of my head.
The Shadow had tons of henchmen who were people he saved.