>Multi-season series with story arcs and an expanding universe that builds upon itself with consequences that stick between episodes and hard continuity.
Why does this show get so little credit for that? I've seen some people try and claim that Avatar the Last Airbender was the first Western series to do this, but this aired just a couple of years earlier and checked off all of those marks itself.
Its fanbase's constant screaming for validation has damaged its perception.
Nobody says avatar was the first to do it. It was just good at that structure and set a gold standard for how episodic shows it an overarching plot should be.
I've seen people on Cinemaphile claim that Avatar was the first to do it. They're obviously moronic but it always kind of blew my mind that what was at the time a pretty popular cartoon that came out so close to Avatar is so overlooked by them.
Yeah that's fair, I don't think it's a masterpiece or anything but it does feel weirdly overlooked nowadays. Despite how much it deviates from the original Turtles I feel like it's one of the more entertaining adaptations.
Part of the problem with TMNT 03 is that it's gotten basically no reruns since it finished its original run, so if you didn't see it when it was airing you likely didn't see it at all. Younger people likely aren't even aware that it existed now.
Cw4kids repaired it
It's only good before the fast forward arc thing
>I've seen people on Cinemaphile claim that Avatar was the first to do it.
And Cinemaphile is full of schizos and morons.
Avatar is the gold standard for being overrated crap
The Utrom Shredder reveal upset many people.
and rightfully so
Nah that twist was awesome it woulda been boring if he was just a normal human.
The people praising Avatar as groundbreaking were turbonormie kids who were 7-10 when it came out and never watched anime(except maybe Pokemon) and only watched Nick. So Avatar seemed incredibly mature and nuanced next to "CGI student's first show and "Dan scheider's elaborate scheme to sniff preteen girl feet"
Avatar's biggest pro is that it's a very polished product. It LOOKS good, the voice acting is good, and the story is sound for a Nick kid's show.
I love TMNT03 but it is janky in spots, half the VAs are a cut above and yet more than a few are 4kids guys phoning in hokey voices, the color palette is gaudy early digital animation, action is solid but could be better.
ATLA was overrated
Because, despite being an excellent series and an all around good adaptation, it was not an "original" concept. It was a reboot of an existing thing, and that caused people to see it as less cool, less good, and less complex, even though it was anything but.
I remember thinking this show was cool as shit and that it blew the frick out of the 80s cartoon when it was airing. It wasn't without its problems bit you could tell the staff was really giving it their all. It's a damm fricking shame kt seems so forgotten now, in a lot of ways it really was kind of ground breaking for the time.
I'm just responding for when you delete this post and people ask "why was this deleted?"
Damn anon you fricking called it.
You have to remember, TMNT was seen as wholly "kiddie" due to the previous show in the 80s. Its why nobody really cared about the Thunder cats 2011 reboot or the various He-Man reboots, they their fanbases are largely nostalgic adults and kids who buy the toys. Its the same way Power Rangers/Super Sentai works. Filter in kids with toys, they grow up and become nostalgic, the toy company then sell "premium" toys.
Mostly this. Also no matter how serious the plot and characters are, there's no escaping the comical veneer of the premise being "talking karate turtles"
its fanbase is annoying even compared to the other tmnt fanbases, I don't know how many times I was discussing something and a 2003 fan says how much better the 2003 series is and did that story arc better. at least 80s fans acknowledge a lot of their love is nostalgia 2003 fans act like martyrs.
I thought it was well liked within its fandom.
Pointless contrarianism gets the best of some people. Plus in-fighting between new fans of stuff like Rise and old fans who dislike the new thing... and also I'm sure a few of the homosexuals who are brainlessly defending Mutant Mayhem want to convince people that all the old things were never good and the newest thing is the best thing because it makes the old fans mad that their thing is over.
>also I'm sure a few of the homosexuals who are brainlessly defending Mutant Mayhem want to convince people that all the old things were never good and the newest thing is the best thing because it makes the old fans mad that their thing is over.
I like both. Mutant Mayhem isn't bad and from some of the complaints I've seen here I doubt much of Cinemaphile has even seen it.
The problem is that a lot of people that just flat out hate it do so because of the visuals. You don't need to go see a movie to know you wouldn't like it, due to the visuals, if you're going "I hate this" at the visuals of every clip you see.
>You don't need to go see a movie to know you wouldn't like it, due to the visuals, if you're going "I hate this" at the visuals of every clip you see.
People are entitled to find ugly whatever they want, but condemning the entire work because it is ugly without looking at anything else feels like you would otherwise miss out on good stuff. Like calling Superjail or 12 oz. Mouse shit purely because of the aesthetic, or Spiderverse due to the choppy animation
Also not Cinemaphile but my favorite anime of all time is Ping Pong and it saddens me hearing people dismiss it because "art ugly lmao"
Yeah, but we're talking about something that's fugly, but also deeply mediocre that has nothing interesting to say, and nothing interesting to do with the legacy characters they're using to try and amp up merch sales.
>Superjail or 12 oz
>Ping Pong
All of them use bright colors and some cool line art. This moves looks like vomit unironically.
I actually like cartoons with "ugly" aesthetics because they feel fresh and unique
My dude, there are too many things out there that are well written AND visually splendid to waste time on something that I find absolutely repulsive visually. Not just merely "bad" but offputting. I do not want to watch it. Maybe I would like the writing, maybe I wouldn't, but this is a visual medium and the visuals make me want nothing to do with this.
Neither of those need me to buy a ticket or go to cinema
The examples here are all over the place, 12 oz. Mouse is low effort and bad on purpose, Superjail is low budget but fairly impressive in some places meanwhile Ping Pong is actually stylistically unique and has great animation, and is probably the only one of these where the style was fully a choice. That's not even going into the actual writing of these shows and how all of the other things I said signal to people what to expect from each show.
I hate it for the writing, the characters, and the plot. As the basis for a new series, it's piss poor. Devoid of potential. They cut out any chance for the characters to be remotely interesting and defanged nearly all of the villains.
The new turtles are annoying and the middle aged morons who tried to make them modern and relatable ended up doing the worst thing they could do to the TMNT: They made them uncool. They're not characters I want to see more of, especially when the only thing set up for their future stories is high school bullshit. Frick off.
In the turtles fandom sure, most general cartoon fans usually dont talk about it.
yes because as
said the show had next to zero reruns outside of its original run on kids WB and later blocks like Miguzi. Not exactly good at generating interest or discussion if people can't randomly find the show.
2003 sucks, always has, always will.
Last Airbender had one large over-arcing plot. Season 1 they took down the Fire Lord's top general, and there were a few scenes where we saw both the Fire Lord and Azula. In Season 2 Azula logically stepped up to be the new big threat, but the Fire Lord remained the clear end goal. Season 3 culminated in the final battle against him.
You look at the first 3 seasons of TMNT, and while they were competently done it's easy to tell that they had no idea where they would go in the long run when they were writing season 1. It kept on going after things really should have ended, and there was no "timejump and new cast" like with Korra to make things more palatable.
I know what you mean, there were plenty of shows with LORE and CONTINUITY back then but my Cinemaphilemblr sisters claim it was all episodic sh*t before Avatar came along
Are they ignorant, lying fanboys or just trolling?
Having a pre-planned plot and carrying it through to completion was damn-near unheard of before Avatar. There were writers that rolled well with the fact that they had no idea how many eps they'd have, and no intention of planning all the big arcs of the show out from the start (right up to a decisive ending). You kept going until one season the bosses said "this is your final season" and then if you were very lucky you could tie things up decently. Avatar was nearly unique.
Gargoyles did it nearly 20 years earlier even if it never got to finish, seethe about it.
>Gargoyles
Except no. Weisman has been very clear that he had no ending in mind. He was going to keep on telling stories as long as Disney would let him, because that was the normal way of doing things. And Gargoyles was great! But he didn't start off going "okay the ending of the story will be when they beat Oberon." There HAVE been many writers that had long-term plans, but I don't know of any who had a serious plan for an ending on their own terms.
With Avatar the end goal was always beating the Fire Lord and ending the war. They did play with the notion of doing more, but ultimately the story ended where they'd planned on ending it, and it was an ending they'd spent the whole run working toward. Basically nobody did that until Avatar, with the exception of some stuff that was planned to be SHORT like Invasion America.
Gargoyles, like 2003 TMNT, is far more episodic than people make it sound despite the continuity and character development
Because that's lame.
Is the new dvd boxset worth picking up? Like the quality and such? Heard its still the tv edit of Turtles Forever though. I wouldn't mind owning it next to the 87 and 2012 sets after a price drop.
homosexuals have been repeating that people only hate Mutant Mayhem's visuals (like that isn't a good reason to hate a MOVIE) and whenever someone gives any other criticism, they just run off and then repeat that same shit in another thread. Fricking pathetic.
If this is you
you didn't really criticise it.
>Writing bad
Okay? Why is it bad?
>Turtles are annoying
Because...?
I'm not sure what you're even expecting.
No foot clan, no ties to Shredder, no revenge arc. Turtles aren't interested in protecting the city, they just want fame so they can attend public school. A dozen mutant characters crammed into the movie because Seth Rogen wanted to make more action figures to sell, not because he had anything interesting to do with any of them. Awful humor in the style of the infamous Rick and Morty group mumble, grossout humor, and pop culture references that amount to blurting out the names of things people might recognize.
What the frick are YOU expecting? We saw the same movie. You're saying it's good because it just is, and get pissy when anyone dares to contradict your profoundly shit taste after you insist that no one has any reason to dislike a bad movie made by a bunch of moronic homosexuals.
>No foot clan, no ties to Shredder, no revenge arc. Turtles aren't interested in protecting the city, they just want fame so they can attend public school.
See I'm not one for adaptation-must-adhere-to-source-material autism so we're at an impasse here, I'd rather not waste my time arguing about this.
Also
>Turtles aren't interested in protecting the city, they just want fame so they can attend public school.
The turning point of the movie was when they realized they were doing things for the wrong reasons, so they developed from just wanting to be liked to wanting to protect the city.
It's people repeating this kind of complaint that has me doubt how many of you even watched the movie. Feel free to shit yourself but I'm not going to respond again because like I said, I'm not one for this kind of autism.
because more people grew up with Nick, CN, and Disney Channel than 4kids
138724946
>I'm not one for this kind of autism.
And yet you'll be back in every TMNT thread for the next month, repeating the same shit anyways.
I'm not gonna lie. I don't actually like this movie's take on the turtles. Raph is just kinda okay, Mikey's the most insufferable he's ever been and Leo is just another in a long line of boring, uncharismatic Leos. As for Donny, there are just so many better Donnys.
Can 2003fans acknowledge that their show was a mess?
You can seethe about avatar all you want, but at lest it had consistency. Mashing lots of concepts into one show won't turn it into a wild ride.
TMNT has always been like that. First adventure is fighting a ninja warlord. Then fighting building destroying robots. Then infiltrating the secret base of a bunch of aliens. Then getting teleported to another dimension.
TMNT has ALWAYS been a carefree mix of everything and anything they wanted to put in.
Except main appeal of 2003 is not being carefree at all.
Carefree as in having time travel, aliens, ninja gangs, alternate dimensions, mutants, super heroes, magic, and everything else happening in the same story without obsessively stressing over explaining it.
>obsessively stressing over explaining
Lmao all they do after first shredder death is overexplaining things.
Utrom Shredder wasn't a good idea.
But also I've always found it strange that 2003's fanbase seem to disavow the last 3 seasons for being a zany mishmash of science and magic and time travel bullshit, while not giving 87 any credit for *its* final 3 seasons which are tonally darker and more continuity heavy-- everything they claim to love about 03.
People overate how dark 2003 is in my opinion like yeah it’s way darker then the 87 series but alot of it is goofie sci fi with superhero’s, weird aliens even in the early seasons.
Three words, Insane in the Membrane
wait frick that was four I CANT COUNT ITS OVER! Have a classic Baxter as my apologies
I do agree this is dark and so are a couple of others mostly bishop, utrom shredder ones but overall the series is still classic fun turtles.
I don't think anyone tries to argue that 2003 didn't have all the usual wacky TMNT bullshit, it's just generally agreed that it pretty much nailed the balance of darker, more serious events (think all the shit they did to Stockman) with lighthearted turtle hijinx.
People get pissed about the later seasons because it was a fricking mess of executive meddling with the formula, to the point that the creators consider entire season non-canon. It's the same shit that happened with Gargoyles, but worse in many ways.
How the frick is executive meddling even still a thing when it's so routinely proven to frick shows up and kill them? You'd think businesses would have figured this shit out by now and put rules in place about how much they were allowed to directly interfere.
the people that are really signing the checks are not children. they are older people that are classically educated and barely watched cartoons themselves. they just sign things based on how plausible certain investment meetings are. that is how it is in large companies.
Yeah but after a certain point you'd think they'd catch wind of shows consistently losing viewership and getting cancelled after executive meddling.
Simply put, three reasons:
1) Utroms and the Utrom Sheddar
2) Triceratons and going to space
3) Y'Lyntians and their Ancient City
It doesn't matter how much of that was in or reflects aspects of the original Mirage comics; most of the people watching thought it was a darker, street-ier TMNT that was also going to stick to elevated street level. When those things hit, most people tuned out. The show is a disappointment in their memory and they didn't stick around long enough to give it credit or notice a good number of its later problems, like man it felt like they had no idea what they wanted to do with Ch'rell after Karai salvaged him
Helloooooooooooooo obscure forgotten waifu
>This horrible cartoon is the prototype of the TMNT IDW comic series. The turtles are pacifist shit heads who have to fight psycho villains and the turtles allow the villains to live unless they somehow get themselves killed by something else.
>In the 2003 cartoon every single major villain got away with their crimes, reformed even though they deserve death, or if they die it's because something else killed them off like Chrell who Bebop and Rocksteady's stupidity from the first cartoon got him killed. But lets see...
>Hun - Got away with his life of crime and when the turtles got a chance to kill him for killing Casey's father they all forgave him and he became a more evil crime lord as a reward.
>Karai - Shitty c**t who gets away with her crimes because Leo is too busy simping for this shitty c**t and this element is sadly consistent across the entire franchise. The worst part is the writers always intend for Karai to be seen as likable because she has "honor" what a crock of shit.
>Stockman - He spent most of the series being evil and though he was tortured I don't feel sorry for him because he kept being a criminal and kept coming after the main characters. So to hear he got reformed in Fast Forward meant nothing to me.
>Bishop - Another villain who reformed in Fast Forward. He spent the actual majority of his screen time being an evil sociopath working for the government that I didn't care for him turning good later. Although Bishop did have a good reason for being hostile against Non Humans. I'll give him that but none the less he should have died.
>The show was generally unsatisfying because they wanted to imitate the Mirage Comics but the turtles are NOT allowed to kill the villains. This will always make the show unpleasant shit. This show deserves to be forgotten.
I used to like the show as a kid. It aired every morning before school. Apparently the episode with Stockman's mother never aired in the US? They showed it on Australian TV just fine.
Most superhero shows in the early 2000s and late 90s had those story arcs, those were the serialized cartoons back in the day. Tmnt 2003 was just part of that trend.
Zoomers don't know that and that's why they think Steven shitverse, ADventure Autism, Gravity Fails, Star Vs Cucks etc. are a big deal.
Weren't Eastman and Laird heavily involved in the show's production?
>Why does this show get so little credit for that?
Because at the time it came out that wasn't actually all that uncommon, tons of shows on CN and WB and Fox had been doing that for a good long while
>I've seen some people try and claim that Avatar the Last Airbender was the first Western series to do this
Those people are moronic, ignore them
2003 had am amazing first 4/5 seasons
and then corporate idiots fricked it all up by listening to a stupid "How to get more kids to watch" powerpoint presentation from another corporate stooge. so even within the lifecycle of this single cartoon you get a lesson in how corporations frick things up.
Fast Forward and Back to The Sewers sucked though. And Turtles Forever is a mixed bag.
Really the best thing to do when watching this is just stick to the mainline show and end at Ninja Tribunal.