New villains are hard to market because they don't have an established fanbase, for every Harley Quinn you get at least 3 forgettable ones like lock up calendar girl sewer king, if you're lucky they have some staying power like baby doll or inque though but not enough to hit mainstream.
I thought Calendar Girl was interesting as a sort of mirror contrast of Baby Doll, and her backstory of being screwed over by clients just because they believe she's 'too old' (i.e. she turned thirty) remains poignant today.
Kind of a one-off character, though. Past her initial motive and targets, I'm not sure there's really anything to do with her.
They aren't showing how Waller got the money to do all this crap or how she quickly got to do just what they show in this clip, but it was obvious from S1 that they were always going to have someone be the Seasonal Big Bad. That's just Modern TV 101 nonsense.
If it wasn't going to be Lois' dad again, then it had to be The Wall.
>If it wasn't going to be Lois' dad again, then it had to be The Wall.
or, you know, fricking brainiac, like they teased at the end of season 1. or lex luthor.
We don't know that Brainiac isn't a key villain, or even the biggest one (and the suggestion is that he's enslaved to Zod, so it's at minimum a Morrison crime Syndicate type situation or Red Son type situation where it's a fake out, which is - again - LAZY and unimaginative).
Lex has already appeared and is confirmed and is far too young in this universe. Ivo is potentially a bigger threat as shown in S1 than Lex so far.
Here's an idea then. Total randos end up finding the Kryptonian tech, Willis finds it and uses it for Jake Paul style dangerous video stunts for views.
Hell, with how much social media played into this thing, a shockjock like her was the most wasted character in this.
Parasyte wasn't comics accurate but he had a personality which carried things well enough that he felt unique from the others
We already have a cause; there's no point in trying to rewrite what we already got.
i'm baffled they didn't use toyman as one of the tech villains. it would've been so easy too. the dude finds kryptonian tech, and, instead of strapping it to his body like a moron with no sense of self-preservation, he turns toys into weapons.
Partially because that already shows more imagination than the show's writer have shown. Similarly to the Invincible use of D.A. Sinclair (which is also really not that unique or imaginative), MAWS could have had Ivo, once Waller and Lane got their hands on him, be creative with the Kryptonian tech, but instead they just one noted him into a more kaiju Parasite.
I mean, a show like this is the perfect place to give old villains that the comics have largely forgotten a place to shine for an episode or two. How many Bat-villains are essentially forgotten because DC only knows how to push Joker in our face for the 8th time this year?
I don't object to the recycling of old villains but connecting them all to Kryptonian tech is just lazy and frankly idiotic.
It's as awful as the villains in Smallville all being Kryptonite radiated caused Monsters of the Week or the villains in the DCW Flash being all Star Labs particle accelerator created MoftW.
It just shows that the writers here don't have a decent imagination and that Campbell is limited as a showrunner. And the EPs should be doing more work to make this shit better. James Tucker wouldn't have let some of this shit slide in, at least not without improving it and making it more logical and better.
Jake Wyatt gave an interview where he said that all the villains were going to be science based, which isn't where the show fails, it's in executing that concept in such a contrived way.
Jake Wyatt gave an interview where he said that all the villains were going to be science based, which isn't where the show fails, it's in executing that concept in such a contrived way.
The problem is it makes the universe feel limited and makes it so that the villains are mostly distinguished on a "sympathetic to sadistic" scale with very little room for flavor outside of maybe Parasyte and Mxy
Shit forgot the arrow, my bad anon.
Also, the way it all ties to waller is worse because they have already both shown a Flash villain and dropped the G-word which has a history of hyping people up in any DC property and makes people laser focus on "where is he?".
Making it feel super limited early on is a bad idea if you hint there's an entire fricking Justice League running around
>the writers here don't have a decent imagination
I think it's a very deliberate choice to tie in a lot of metropolis's problems with Superman's own arrival on Terra. It makes Waller's position somewhat plausible and it saves some screentime to focus on Clark & Lois rather then setting up the backstory for some 2-bit crook, that then has to go down in the last 3 minutes of the episode and is never seen again.
In BTAS and STAS, the sexy spandex bimbo's (post something, I need some cheesecake) stole the show. Here, they don't want to do that, and so they still have hot girls in tight suits, but everything they get is already tied to Clark Kent before they commit the first "Superman should stop them"-offence.
it's not a big deal that everyone gets their from kryptonian tech, it's a very plausible in-universe explanation like leftover chitauri tech and the effects of the blip but most importantly it's a handwave to every contrived b-lister origin when that isn't the focus of the story. my real problem with this show is that the villain designs are uninspired and anime-like. if the timm girls stole the show is because they were sexy action figures, which is what the classic costumes are for old af comic book readers and fans and that's what this show should do, make the villains look like the character they're supposed to be, Livewire can be black of latina but she needs the blue hair and black suit.
>anime-like
What bugs me is that it never feels like they're taking visual cues from specific anime and instead going for a generic "how to draw anime" style.
Like, imagine an "anime" style Lobo show that took visual cues from Fist of the North Star or a Booster Gold with Space Dandy influence
>Like, imagine an "anime" style Lobo show that took visual cues from Fist of the North Star
I would watch the shit out of that.
Too bad most of you are moeshitters and hate anime that looks cool.
agreed. they need to lean harder into science fiction.
this show is the best portrayal of clark, lois, and jimmy we've had in a while but they're really dropping the ball with the villains,and they're just as important.
it also feels like most of the superpowered rogues are written the same way. like, the lines atomic skull said in the preview are things i could just as easily hear coming from parasite or livewire. the only ones who stand out are mxyzptlk, and i guess heatwave? kind of? a lot of them don't have enough screentime to leave much of an impression.
Jake Wyatt gave an interview where he said that all the villains were going to be science based, which isn't where the show fails, it's in executing that concept in such a contrived way.
The problem is it makes the universe feel limited and makes it so that the villains are mostly distinguished on a "sympathetic to sadistic" scale with very little room for flavor outside of maybe Parasyte and Mxy
>the writers here don't have a decent imagination
I think it's a very deliberate choice to tie in a lot of metropolis's problems with Superman's own arrival on Terra. It makes Waller's position somewhat plausible and it saves some screentime to focus on Clark & Lois rather then setting up the backstory for some 2-bit crook, that then has to go down in the last 3 minutes of the episode and is never seen again.
In BTAS and STAS, the sexy spandex bimbo's (post something, I need some cheesecake) stole the show. Here, they don't want to do that, and so they still have hot girls in tight suits, but everything they get is already tied to Clark Kent before they commit the first "Superman should stop them"-offence.
The armor looks generic as hell and people have made repeated jokes about how many anime characters Silver Banshee looks like while bemoaning the lack of any unique look for her.
Here's an idea then. Total randos end up finding the Kryptonian tech, Willis finds it and uses it for Jake Paul style dangerous video stunts for views.
Hell, with how much social media played into this thing, a shockjock like her was the most wasted character in this.
Parasyte wasn't comics accurate but he had a personality which carried things well enough that he felt unique from the others
>Leslie Willis
They specifically didn't want to do all that in a first episode. They needed a simple villain, with a clear tie-in for Waller to b***h about.
Why they wasted Livewire on such a bit part is beyond me too, though.
>a very deliberate choice to tie in a lot of metropolis's problems
There are two things: one, that essentially it's easy for highly advanced alien technology to be readily adapted by government funded scientist; even with the MCU adaptation of Chitari tech, most criminals are just using guns as guns and nothing really complex (much less re-imaging existing villain origins as I stated that Smallville and DCW Flash did).
I agree with you about 'plausible' and 'saves some screentime' but that's a different problem I have with this show - they are trying to do DCAU type episodes or even just modern streaming genre type episodes in an 24-25 minute time block (due to commercials).
THAT's also a problem that would be solved if they (a) either accepted they cannot do what they are trying to do or (b) did two parters, the way DCAU JL/JLU often did when confronted with the same problem.
They only did it for the S1 finale and then not very well.
agreed. they need to lean harder into science fiction.
this show is the best portrayal of clark, lois, and jimmy we've had in a while but they're really dropping the ball with the villains,and they're just as important.
it also feels like most of the superpowered rogues are written the same way. like, the lines atomic skull said in the preview are things i could just as easily hear coming from parasite or livewire. the only ones who stand out are mxyzptlk, and i guess heatwave? kind of? a lot of them don't have enough screentime to leave much of an impression.
Yep, this is another issue, as I state above - they are trying to do a more complex (hour long) type show when they weren't approved or given the budget for that.
Justice League Action wrote 10-12 minute episodes that were better written and dealt with these types of issues better than MAWS with these 20+ minute episodes.
the problem is how few epsiodes they get.
there are three parts to the show: developing the plot, developing the heroes, and developing the villains. as-is, they've only got enough time to do two of them, and it's usually the villains that get the shaft.
10 episodes is pretty much the future norm. I disagree that it SHOULD be the norm for animation and it doesn't always even work with drama, but it definitely hurts any animation that isn't Simpson's joke joke joke situation comedy.
MAWS would be OKAY if they had attempted it largely as an action comedy slice of life show without a season-long big bad.
>but i don't like how they're recycling old villains
why is using superman villains in a superman show bad?
you go into a superman show expecting lex, braniac, parasite, bizzaro, mr myx, and toyman
while new villains showing up every now and then is welcome, like livewire and volcana, those are more bonuses that go on top of seeing their actual rogues gallery
i'm baffled they didn't use toyman as one of the tech villains. it would've been so easy too. the dude finds kryptonian tech, and, instead of strapping it to his body like a moron with no sense of self-preservation, he turns toys into weapons.
to be (unreasonably) fair to Waller, they are all technically violent criminals, even if in the show all of the non-Superman violence Silver Banshee and a couple of the others commit are through incompetence/collateral damage
Waller is definitely still a just as much a c**t, if not more so, in MAWS as she usually is, with the exception that due to the age rating and tone of the show she probably can't outright kill any of the villains. Definitely a good representation of a glowie as much as some people seem to hate her inclusion for whatever reason.
Watch it again the inmates are non-violent offenders that couldn't afford bail. Waller wanted the kind of people nobody will notice being missing that also won't use their powers to kill each other given the opportunity.
do they really have so little confidence in this series that they're basically spoiling the end segment of an episode in an attempts to draw in more viewers?
Well this was originally going to be a CN show but they moved it to [as] because >CN hates action shows >nobody's watching CN anymore >they would've given it a bad timeslot
Because Cartoon Network only airs Teen Titans Go reruns 24/7.
You would think that James Gunn or someone else at Time Warner would be able to force CN to play ball and do some actual corporate synergy that benefits the brand and the whole company.
Remind me again why this is an Adult Swin show? It could air on regular Cartoon Network no problem.
Well this was originally going to be a CN show but they moved it to [as] because >CN hates action shows >nobody's watching CN anymore >they would've given it a bad timeslot
When AT&T originally took over, they forced a change from the old system where CN could easily shoot DC Entertainment/WB Animation or another Time Warner business unit in the foot like they did with YJ and GL-TAS.
So that problem has already been solved. The problem is that AT&T set up Warner Media, they pivoted towards HBO Max and didn't really pay much attention to the cable channels.
The DISCO people are now pretty much closing up some of those cable channels since they have really too many of them and they aren't making the same kind of payouts.
Which is why DISCO is doing shit like this, largely to generate cash from licensing fees:
https://tvline.com/news/metv-toons-channel-cartoons-looney-tunes-scooby-doo-1235227155/
I'm still wanting to see some toys from this fricking show, even if they are some of the small rubber Spin Master type figures they were doing a few years back.
It definitely doesn't appear McFarlane is planning to or being asked to do any.
He might have been one of the Tax Force X military guys, simply referred to as John, but a "john corbin" or a "metallo" - nope.
to be (unreasonably) fair to Waller, they are all technically violent criminals, even if in the show all of the non-Superman violence Silver Banshee and a couple of the others commit are through incompetence/collateral damage
Waller is definitely still a just as much a c**t, if not more so, in MAWS as she usually is, with the exception that due to the age rating and tone of the show she probably can't outright kill any of the villains. Definitely a good representation of a glowie as much as some people seem to hate her inclusion for whatever reason.
>she probably can't outright kill any of the villains
They are doing the same shit DCAU did, where there's a of property damage but nothing like blood, or gore. People are definitely being put in lethal harms way, just it's not being shown.
atomic skull is cool and underrated but i don't like how they're recycling old villains
New villains are hard to market because they don't have an established fanbase, for every Harley Quinn you get at least 3 forgettable ones like lock up calendar girl sewer king, if you're lucky they have some staying power like baby doll or inque though but not enough to hit mainstream.
I thought Calendar Girl was interesting as a sort of mirror contrast of Baby Doll, and her backstory of being screwed over by clients just because they believe she's 'too old' (i.e. she turned thirty) remains poignant today.
Kind of a one-off character, though. Past her initial motive and targets, I'm not sure there's really anything to do with her.
no, i mean they're recycling villains from the first season. namely Waller.
They aren't showing how Waller got the money to do all this crap or how she quickly got to do just what they show in this clip, but it was obvious from S1 that they were always going to have someone be the Seasonal Big Bad. That's just Modern TV 101 nonsense.
If it wasn't going to be Lois' dad again, then it had to be The Wall.
>If it wasn't going to be Lois' dad again, then it had to be The Wall.
or, you know, fricking brainiac, like they teased at the end of season 1. or lex luthor.
Brainiac yes. Lex please no.
he's already confirmed.
I hope he goes bald by the end of the season or that he has been wearing a wig this whole time.
We don't know that Brainiac isn't a key villain, or even the biggest one (and the suggestion is that he's enslaved to Zod, so it's at minimum a Morrison crime Syndicate type situation or Red Son type situation where it's a fake out, which is - again - LAZY and unimaginative).
Lex has already appeared and is confirmed and is far too young in this universe. Ivo is potentially a bigger threat as shown in S1 than Lex so far.
We already have a cause; there's no point in trying to rewrite what we already got.
Partially because that already shows more imagination than the show's writer have shown. Similarly to the Invincible use of D.A. Sinclair (which is also really not that unique or imaginative), MAWS could have had Ivo, once Waller and Lane got their hands on him, be creative with the Kryptonian tech, but instead they just one noted him into a more kaiju Parasite.
While it sucks that the Suicide Squad was brought in at all, I don't think you can just take Waller out of a show once she's in it.
nah you can she is one of the worst things to happen to DC
I mean, a show like this is the perfect place to give old villains that the comics have largely forgotten a place to shine for an episode or two. How many Bat-villains are essentially forgotten because DC only knows how to push Joker in our face for the 8th time this year?
I don't object to the recycling of old villains but connecting them all to Kryptonian tech is just lazy and frankly idiotic.
It's as awful as the villains in Smallville all being Kryptonite radiated caused Monsters of the Week or the villains in the DCW Flash being all Star Labs particle accelerator created MoftW.
It just shows that the writers here don't have a decent imagination and that Campbell is limited as a showrunner. And the EPs should be doing more work to make this shit better. James Tucker wouldn't have let some of this shit slide in, at least not without improving it and making it more logical and better.
Jake Wyatt gave an interview where he said that all the villains were going to be science based, which isn't where the show fails, it's in executing that concept in such a contrived way.
Jake Wyatt gave an interview where he said that all the villains were going to be science based, which isn't where the show fails, it's in executing that concept in such a contrived way.
The problem is it makes the universe feel limited and makes it so that the villains are mostly distinguished on a "sympathetic to sadistic" scale with very little room for flavor outside of maybe Parasyte and Mxy
Shit forgot the arrow, my bad anon.
Also, the way it all ties to waller is worse because they have already both shown a Flash villain and dropped the G-word which has a history of hyping people up in any DC property and makes people laser focus on "where is he?".
Making it feel super limited early on is a bad idea if you hint there's an entire fricking Justice League running around
it's not a big deal that everyone gets their from kryptonian tech, it's a very plausible in-universe explanation like leftover chitauri tech and the effects of the blip but most importantly it's a handwave to every contrived b-lister origin when that isn't the focus of the story. my real problem with this show is that the villain designs are uninspired and anime-like. if the timm girls stole the show is because they were sexy action figures, which is what the classic costumes are for old af comic book readers and fans and that's what this show should do, make the villains look like the character they're supposed to be, Livewire can be black of latina but she needs the blue hair and black suit.
>anime-like
What bugs me is that it never feels like they're taking visual cues from specific anime and instead going for a generic "how to draw anime" style.
Like, imagine an "anime" style Lobo show that took visual cues from Fist of the North Star or a Booster Gold with Space Dandy influence
Norks don't get any media. They only get the reference sheets they're handed.
>Like, imagine an "anime" style Lobo show that took visual cues from Fist of the North Star
I would watch the shit out of that.
Too bad most of you are moeshitters and hate anime that looks cool.
agreed. they need to lean harder into science fiction.
this show is the best portrayal of clark, lois, and jimmy we've had in a while but they're really dropping the ball with the villains,and they're just as important.
it also feels like most of the superpowered rogues are written the same way. like, the lines atomic skull said in the preview are things i could just as easily hear coming from parasite or livewire. the only ones who stand out are mxyzptlk, and i guess heatwave? kind of? a lot of them don't have enough screentime to leave much of an impression.
>the writers here don't have a decent imagination
I think it's a very deliberate choice to tie in a lot of metropolis's problems with Superman's own arrival on Terra. It makes Waller's position somewhat plausible and it saves some screentime to focus on Clark & Lois rather then setting up the backstory for some 2-bit crook, that then has to go down in the last 3 minutes of the episode and is never seen again.
In BTAS and STAS, the sexy spandex bimbo's (post something, I need some cheesecake) stole the show. Here, they don't want to do that, and so they still have hot girls in tight suits, but everything they get is already tied to Clark Kent before they commit the first "Superman should stop them"-offence.
You're just setting up to repeat the errors of Man of Murder by saying "Superman's presence is the cause of all conflict".
>the errors of Man of Murder
Elaborate, please?
>In BTAS and STAS, the sexy spandex bimbo's stole the show.
they did here too
The armor looks generic as hell and people have made repeated jokes about how many anime characters Silver Banshee looks like while bemoaning the lack of any unique look for her.
yeah but she gets my dick hard and that's all that matters
God, she really just does make for perfect rape bait.
Cute, like taking orders from your Chuuni little sister.
Here's an idea then. Total randos end up finding the Kryptonian tech, Willis finds it and uses it for Jake Paul style dangerous video stunts for views.
Hell, with how much social media played into this thing, a shockjock like her was the most wasted character in this.
Parasyte wasn't comics accurate but he had a personality which carried things well enough that he felt unique from the others
>Leslie Willis
They specifically didn't want to do all that in a first episode. They needed a simple villain, with a clear tie-in for Waller to b***h about.
Why they wasted Livewire on such a bit part is beyond me too, though.
>a very deliberate choice to tie in a lot of metropolis's problems
There are two things: one, that essentially it's easy for highly advanced alien technology to be readily adapted by government funded scientist; even with the MCU adaptation of Chitari tech, most criminals are just using guns as guns and nothing really complex (much less re-imaging existing villain origins as I stated that Smallville and DCW Flash did).
I agree with you about 'plausible' and 'saves some screentime' but that's a different problem I have with this show - they are trying to do DCAU type episodes or even just modern streaming genre type episodes in an 24-25 minute time block (due to commercials).
THAT's also a problem that would be solved if they (a) either accepted they cannot do what they are trying to do or (b) did two parters, the way DCAU JL/JLU often did when confronted with the same problem.
They only did it for the S1 finale and then not very well.
Yep, this is another issue, as I state above - they are trying to do a more complex (hour long) type show when they weren't approved or given the budget for that.
Justice League Action wrote 10-12 minute episodes that were better written and dealt with these types of issues better than MAWS with these 20+ minute episodes.
the problem is how few epsiodes they get.
there are three parts to the show: developing the plot, developing the heroes, and developing the villains. as-is, they've only got enough time to do two of them, and it's usually the villains that get the shaft.
10 episodes is pretty much the future norm. I disagree that it SHOULD be the norm for animation and it doesn't always even work with drama, but it definitely hurts any animation that isn't Simpson's joke joke joke situation comedy.
MAWS would be OKAY if they had attempted it largely as an action comedy slice of life show without a season-long big bad.
what new Superman villains even exist? fricking Rogol Zaar?
Frick off Bendis
>recycling
>atomic skull
Anon name one superman adaptation where Atomic Skull has had a legitimately significant role to the extent of Luthor or Zod?
>but i don't like how they're recycling old villains
why is using superman villains in a superman show bad?
you go into a superman show expecting lex, braniac, parasite, bizzaro, mr myx, and toyman
while new villains showing up every now and then is welcome, like livewire and volcana, those are more bonuses that go on top of seeing their actual rogues gallery
That's a long ass clip. Is this even from episode 1? Feels like we are seeing this far too early.
Gee, Ghost Rider sure does look different
So when's the Main Man showing up?
Don't jinx it, they might use New 52 Lobo because he fits in better with the cod anime style
The more you complain about this stuff, the more you risk the ultimate punishment coming down to make us all pay for our sins.
Season 2 finale stinger will be Raggle Fraggle.
Wow, i can wait for even more villains having their powers being turned into being tech based. It sure makes them all unique and interesting
>suicide squad again
ffs
i'm baffled they didn't use toyman as one of the tech villains. it would've been so easy too. the dude finds kryptonian tech, and, instead of strapping it to his body like a moron with no sense of self-preservation, he turns toys into weapons.
Toyman was part of the leaked voice credits that also leaked Supergirl.
>Waller experimenting on non-violent offenders
Can every version of her just be killed.
She needs to be tamed by my white wiener already damn bratty African women in their 40s need correction
to be (unreasonably) fair to Waller, they are all technically violent criminals, even if in the show all of the non-Superman violence Silver Banshee and a couple of the others commit are through incompetence/collateral damage
Waller is definitely still a just as much a c**t, if not more so, in MAWS as she usually is, with the exception that due to the age rating and tone of the show she probably can't outright kill any of the villains. Definitely a good representation of a glowie as much as some people seem to hate her inclusion for whatever reason.
Watch it again the inmates are non-violent offenders that couldn't afford bail. Waller wanted the kind of people nobody will notice being missing that also won't use their powers to kill each other given the opportunity.
I hope all the kryptonian tech bullshit eventually leads to Cyborg Superman in all his insane glory and proper Henshaw characterization.
There's so much setup you'd need to do to get Cyborg Superman.
Gunn neutered Waller in SS. I've never seen her look so submissive and made into a joke.
do they really have so little confidence in this series that they're basically spoiling the end segment of an episode in an attempts to draw in more viewers?
Remind me again why this is an Adult Swin show? It could air on regular Cartoon Network no problem.
Well this was originally going to be a CN show but they moved it to [as] because
>CN hates action shows
>nobody's watching CN anymore
>they would've given it a bad timeslot
You would think that James Gunn or someone else at Time Warner would be able to force CN to play ball and do some actual corporate synergy that benefits the brand and the whole company.
When AT&T originally took over, they forced a change from the old system where CN could easily shoot DC Entertainment/WB Animation or another Time Warner business unit in the foot like they did with YJ and GL-TAS.
So that problem has already been solved. The problem is that AT&T set up Warner Media, they pivoted towards HBO Max and didn't really pay much attention to the cable channels.
The DISCO people are now pretty much closing up some of those cable channels since they have really too many of them and they aren't making the same kind of payouts.
Which is why DISCO is doing shit like this, largely to generate cash from licensing fees:
https://tvline.com/news/metv-toons-channel-cartoons-looney-tunes-scooby-doo-1235227155/
James Gunn doesn't care about the survival of cable TV.
Because Cartoon Network only airs Teen Titans Go reruns 24/7.
when will they have the Prankster appear as just some turbo dickhead
Personally I’m more so hoping for an appearance from Titianman and his harem or the Astounding Man
Neat.
Why is amanda so evil
>plot contrivance
>plot device
>bad scripts
>lazy writers
PICK ONE
nah frick waller
I'm working on it
Because no one bothered to read the comics that created her and if they did they can’t understand context.
I'm still wanting to see some toys from this fricking show, even if they are some of the small rubber Spin Master type figures they were doing a few years back.
It definitely doesn't appear McFarlane is planning to or being asked to do any.
has John Corbin showed up yet?
He might have been one of the Tax Force X military guys, simply referred to as John, but a "john corbin" or a "metallo" - nope.
>she probably can't outright kill any of the villains
They are doing the same shit DCAU did, where there's a of property damage but nothing like blood, or gore. People are definitely being put in lethal harms way, just it's not being shown.