>My friends, you bow to no one
this scene doesn't exist in the books?
gollum and frodo don't fight in mt doom?
god the books must fricking suck.
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>My friends, you bow to no one
>My friends, you bow to no one
this scene doesn't exist in the books?
gollum and frodo don't fight in mt doom?
god the books must fricking suck.
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Shopping Cart Returner Shirt $21.68 |
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>nerds are lapping up this kind of saccharine bs
i know you're gonna call it SOVL and having heart but it's really cheap and unrewarding
What are people on a tv forum constantly talking about books and what’s in them
Every year I catch these movies on tv and every year this scene still manages to bring a tear to my eye
well don't bother with the books then. apparently the movie is the version of the story with all the good emotional stuff.
I don't read fantasy stuff, if I read books I usually go for more high brow stuff not sci fi and fantasy where some dude spends pages trying to describe the visuals for me.
Nearly everything memorable in the movies comes directly out of the book, same as every time you make this thread
>Nearly everything memorable in the movies
like boromir's reconciliation with aragorn, recognizing aragorn as his king? one of the best scenes in fellowship of the ring. must exist in the book too?
>book Aragorn: determined to claim his birthright from the get-go, introduces himself as Isildur's heir to multiple people, wields Anduril the moment he sets out from Rivendell, refuses to lay it aside at the doors of Theoden's hall, swears to kill any man that touches the sword.
>movie Aragorn: le reluctant, timid ranger that has his sword delivered by DHL and needs to be prompted and urged by a third party to claim his birthright
god he's so...flat in the books. an assertive character is good but, character development is important too.
>CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT
>muh brainlet rules of writing
Not every character needs development in a story. You might as well criticize it for not passing the bechdel test.
If he's flat in the books then he's fricking Emasculated in the movies. And Aragorn doesn't have character development in the movies he decides to stop being a b***h because he realized the world is about to fricking end and his girl is dying (as if he needed MORE reasons to to stop being a b***h) he's fricking awesome in the books
gandalf is enough of a masculine awesome character in the movies. it's fine if aragorn has to develop from a timid man to a hero. better, in fact.
No, Aragorn was the perfect masculine hero, Gandalf is an old wizard and ruining that almost ruined the movie
>gandalf is an old wizard
Gandalf is a Mair, practically a demigod, AND he had an elven Ring of Power the entire time, we just didn't know that until the ending. Hardly just an old wizard.
book aragorn was a lot more based, that's for sure
being proud wasn't really considered a good trait any more in the late 90s when they wrote the screenplay
I will never understand the modern hero archetype of a person with great strength and purpose needing to be urged over and over before accepting it. Its subversive and feminine.
characters who know what they are and what they want are boring.
There are many great stories where the protagonist is a static character and has their convictions from the start and the development is testing them against the world around them. It works very well and some of the stories are ancient. If its boring to you its because you're a woman.
Counterpoint: the world's oldest story.
Aragorn carrying the sin of his forefathers and feeling guilty/ashamed of it gives him depth and complexity. It also adds drive to why he would go fight at the Black Gate to redeem Isildur actions.
>It also adds drive to why he would go fight at the Black Gate to redeem Isildur actions.
Book Aragorn during the war of the ring is an ascendant power that comes to the fore to claim the kingship of Gondor, why would he need some dewy-eyed motivation like Numenorian guilt to contest Mordor?
And if that's not enough for you, it's thoroughly explained in the books that all actions by Gandalf and co. have the singular purpose of making Sauron believe that a new power in the west has taken the Ring for itself and has become wienery enough to openly challenge him.
>explained in the books that all actions by Gandalf and co. have the singular purpose of making Sauron believe that a new power in the west has taken the Ring for itself and has become wienery enough to openly challenge him.
Yeah the mind games between gandalf and sauron are almost completely absent from the movies, which is a shame because it's masterfully done
The Sauron gaslight is brilliant. Especially since we get to hear Sauron's thoughts after Frodo claims the Ring and he senses it for the first time in over 2,500 years at Mount fricking Doom of all places.
>And far away, as Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-dûr was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown. The Dark Lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare. Then his wrath blazed in consuming flame, but his fear rose like a vast black smoke to choke him. For he knew his deadly peril and the thread upon which his doom now hung.
You get to hear saurons words immediately after merry uses the palantir too but they're not in the movie?
That might be the only time in the entire story where Sauron actually speaks to someone and they didn't put it in the movie?
>it is not for you! etc.
Great stuff.
One bizarre movie decision was to put narsil on an altar in rivendell when in the book aragorn had it on him at all times and it plays a more significant part in the story.
Also how Jackson fricking butchered Aragorn journey to the army of the dead
in english doc!
Even 20 years ago you can tell the movies had obvious shitlib influence like "I have never wanted my birthright." etc. but they are still really fricking solid and amazing movies that can stand on their own.
The books are obviously superior from a narrative standpoint, but I like both.
>one of the best scenes in fellowship of the ring. must exist in the book too?
no, instead aragorn, gimli and legolas sing a song that lasts about 5 pages to honor the fallen warrior
which is even better.
>which is even better.
lol yea sure. way better than actually good character development.
yeah like that AWESOME character development that Gimli gets in the movies, am i rite?
and lets not forget the HECKIN MASSIVE character development that le LEGOLAS gets! in the second movie he ALMOST GETS LE DRUNK!
HECKIN BASED!!!
sometimes something is better, even if redditors like it too.
wow, that's a strong fricking argument.
>s-sometimes morons like nice things, this might be one of those times
i think not.
merely asserting that a view is popular among redditors isn't a strong argument.
what about the argument that the films have zero character development in legolas and gimli?
>book gimli is super calm and is as skilled in speech as in crafting.
>movie gimli: AAAAAAHHHH NEVER TRUST A FRICKING ELF RAAAAAAHHH * hits ring with his axe in the middle of a meeting*
what's their development in the books?
based oldgay. the arwen scenes were pretty gay.
>what's their development in the books?
>SPOONFEED ME tbh AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
i dont know, anon, but maybe you should read them and find out?
people used to read for fun you know
besides, the person i answered specifically said that the films were better because they had character development where the books had none
so i ask again: whats the character development of gimli and legolas in the films?
ME
why bother posting about it then? i'm not going to read the books because i've already seen multiple examples of how bad they are compared to the movies.
>the person i answered specifically said that the films were better because they had character development where the books had none
not what was said at all. it's reddit behavior to flat out lie like this.
There's no excuse to not be familiar with the books when the best audiobook ever made happens to be lord of the rings. it's fricking amazing with all the background sound and they either got the movie actors to read the lines or an extremely good impression of them. It's very, very good.
>There's no excuse to not be familiar with the books when the best audiobook ever made happens to be lord of the rings
dude the balrog doesn't look cool. aragorn is just a generic 80s action hero. boromir gets no true redemption. frodo and sam are middle aged men. the books dedicate too much time to describing the texture of roads and other goofy shit. sam isn't as inspirational. smeagol isn't cute. sam doesn't have a falling out with frodo and then come back to save him. the orcs are far more generic. and aragorn doesn't bow to the hobbits.
the books sound so fricking lame. FRICK reading that shit.
>and they were referring specifically to the character development of boromir in the movie.
yes for BOROMIR. not ALL characters.
>yes for BOROMIR. not ALL characters.
so the films are better because boromir has character development in them?
presumably some of the others must have some development that's not in the books too?
what about...
Elrond?
Saruman?
Eowyn?
Treebeard?
Ok, ok, I'll give you an easy one. Can you describe the character arcs of Merry and Pippin from the movies?
Go on, please. And if it is more than
>they are lazy and mischievous at first, but they turn brave later
i'll give you fricking reddit gold
>so the films are better because boromir has character development in them?
yes. the interesting/important characters.
>Elrond?
dunno anything about them because i'm not going to read the books (they're worse). but if they had good character arcs you'd have at least described just one of them, so i suspect they're not interesting.
>btw balrogs don't have wings
i know! that's why i think the book version is lame as frick.
>It's pointless adressing any of your other "points" since you never read the book therfore literally don't know what you're talking about.
well yea the entire point is that i've heard from so many people how the best movie scenes are nonexistent in the books so i don't want or need to read them. and i can guarantee you i will never read them, as they were written in like the 50s when storytelling wasn't as refined as it is now.
>written in like the 50s when storytelling wasn't as refined as it is now.
Ah so he was just trolling all along. Got it.
>dunno anything about them because i'm not going to read the books (they're worse). but if they had good character arcs you'd have at least described just one of them, so i suspect they're not interesting.
I literally asked you to describe the character development that ISN'T in the books.
how fricking moronic are you actually, anon? You are making me a little worried here.
oh and nice move that you just ignored my little query about merry and pippin, looks like you wont be getting that reddit gold anytime soon.
>I literally asked you to describe the character development that ISN'T in the books.
i've repeated it multiple times but i'll do it again. boromir's reconciliation with aragorn.
>oh and nice move that you just ignored my little query about merry and pippin
oh i ignored it because it's completely unimportant to what makes the movies good. but their arc is the greentext you posted.
>boromir's reconciliation with aragorn.
anybody else other than boromir?
hmm? or is it just him?
that single character is the reason the movies are better than the books, eh?
jesus if you aren't trolling i feel bad for you
that single profound moment is one among many reasons why the movies are better.
so, any other examples of character development that IS in the movies and ISN'T in the books? anything at all other than... Boromir?
aragorn becoming king.
what part about 'that ISN'T in the books' did you not understand?
but the aragorn's development isn't in the books. he's a flat generic 80s action character in the books.
>he's a flat generic 80s action character in the books
no, anon, he's not. that's in the films.
in the books he is a generic lyrical epic hero in the style of Beowulf or Achilles.
snore. at least he's not flat in the movies.
>The Iliad and Beowulf, two of the most foundational literary epics of western civilization
>I sleep
>Le heckin' epic fight scene on weathertop! And he bows to the hobbits!
>I WAKE
dude worshiping old shit because it's old is quintessential reddit. i don't give a flying frick what backwards savages wrote about 1000 years ago.
and you just trolled yourself into a grinding halt. not gonna lie, the journey was rocky and not always pleasant, but I shall never regret these moments we shared in the trenches of the chans.
I salute you, my Black person, my kang.
stop posting if you think someone is trolling you after they've whipped your ass on several points.
>they've whipped your ass on several points
meds, now
Aragorn isn't flat in the books he even has to remind gandalf he's not gandalfs underling a couple of times, which gandalf immediately consents to.
>gandalf immediately consents
he would, too, the randy old prostitute
What are you even talking about? IIRC the movie doesn't even have the part of Boromirs backstory with the recurring dream and the poem which leads him to Aragorn. He accepts Aragorn as the heir to gondor right there in Rivendell at the council.
>He accepts Aragorn as the heir to gondor right there in Rivendell at the council.
god how fricking boring and flat. christ almost every time someone actually describes the books, they sound so bad.
Not really. The movie doesn't have the backstory about how boromir has wanted the throne of gondor for himself his whole life. Now he has to go on a journey with the true heir it must have been very hard for him.
Boromir isn't even more developed in the movie. Only the book covers his backstory somewhat and shows how he'd always been hungry for power his whole life. Of course the ring would work so strongly on him. The movie just makes him look mentally weaker than the rest of the company.
i know that, im just trying to provide moron-kun enough rope to -ACK! himself with
This homie really wants argue when he had not read the book
that gives me a major handicap and yet i'm still slaying every dipshit book fan responding to me.
>yet i'm still slaying
sure you are, queenie
Even the balrog gets more character development in the book. We learn that he's a powerful magic user during his brief magic battle with gandalf near durins tomb. btw balrogs don't have wings. 2 balrog deaths are described by tolkein and they both died falling. They can't fly.
It's pointless adressing any of your other "points" since you never read the book therfore literally don't know what you're talking about.
you are literally living in an alternate reality now
>lol yea sure. way better than actually good character development.
and they were referring specifically to the character development of boromir in the movie.
boromir was more fleshed out and sympathetic in the book but faramir is fricking based. The very highest quality.
No, Faramir was the most honorable man even more than Aragorn, his book scenes were beautiful and he resisted the ring like a badass
You'd have to actually read the book for your opinion on this to have any weight.
The ending from the books wouldn’t have worked in the movies. It would have been ridiculous for the hobbits to go back to the shire and fight Saruman again. The biggest issue with the changes are how the passage of time is portrayed, start to finish the movies feel like they happen over the course of maybe a month, max.
>It would have been ridiculous for the hobbits to go back to the shire and fight Saruman again.
that's precisely why tolkien wrote it like that - the struggle was brought back to the level of the hobbits who had been on an epic journey and thus were able to trivially roll over the antagonists.
just like how soldiers back from war tend to roll over seemingly impossible problems.
I thought the main point was how Frodo robbed Saruman of his revenge.
>“Saruman rose to his feet, and stared at Frodo.
>There was a strange look in his eyes of mingled wonder and respect and hatred.
>'You have grown, Halfling,' he said.
>'Yes, you have grown very much. You are wise, and cruel. you have robbed my revenge of sweetness, and now I must go hence in bitterness, in debt to your mercy.
>gollum and frodo don't fight in mt doom?
wtf are you talking about, yes they do
if anything its more melodramatic in the book, gollum screams 'precioussss...' as he falls into the lava.
But, you’re wrong. You’re just another double-digit IQ amerimutt who hasn’t read a book in years. Maybe stick to worshipping Black folk and chopping your dick off, yeah?
The books are significantly better most notably in the mind games and plans going on between team gandalf and sauron, which is to say more of the plot and events make sense. The movies portray gimli as hot headed and uncultured but in the books he's rock steady and a gentleman.
I was sleeping at rest stops for a few months while working a dogshit secco job and was listening to the audiobooks to get drowsy, kept having blokes come knock on my window trying to have a go at my butthole and mouth.
it's full of gay ass "Mr frodo was a proud bachelor who entertained all the young gentlemen of the shire" making him out as some metro gay pedo. he's like 20 years older than Sam.
and the songs, fricking tolkein was either drunk or fricked up on laudanum.
OH TOM BOMBADIL TOM BOM BADILLO OH TOM BOMBADIL TOM BOM BADILLO OH TOM BOMBADIL TOM BOM BADILLO OH TOM BOMBADIL TOM BOM BADILLO OH TOM BOMBADIL TOM BOM BADILLO
gay as FRICK
good books tho.
>gay as FRICK
>good books tho
based moron-kun
I'd say movie Galadriel is the most underwhelming.
The Lothlorien scenes are pretty awkward, her and Celeborn speaking like they're stoned, the ridiculous effects of her face when she mind-reads Frodo and refuses the ring.
Book Galadriel is a great character, dropping some of the best lines:
>for ere the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin I passed over the mountains, and together through ages of the world we have fought the long defeat
>I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed!'
>She lifted up her white arms, and spread out her hands towards the East in a gesture of rejection and denial.
>I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed!'
Yeah that was great. Her best lines are to Gimli imo.
Why did she harbor no hatred or resentment for the Dwarf? Iirc that's the moment where Legolas takes a liking to Gimli. When Gimli treats Galadriel with nothing but respect and admiration, Legolas takes note of this and they start hanging out together.
>Why did she harbor no hatred or resentment for the Dwarf?
Noldorians were on pretty good terms with the Dwarves. Moriquen-shit elves were the ones harboring enmity.
The movies lack all of the internal thoughts and descriptors that make the story far more compelling. Like in the books, Tolkien perfectly describes Shelob and sets her up as an ancient evil that even Sauron chose to leave alone, and then in the very next scene based Sam goes fricking nuclear on her and pushes her shit in. In the movies it's more Hollywood and they trade blows, in the books it's completely one sided
>"Sam did not wait to wonder what was to be done, or whether he was brave, or loyal, or filled with rage. He sprang forward with a yell, and seized his master's sword in his left hand. Then he charged. No onslaught more fierce was ever seen in the savage world of beasts; where some desperate small creature armed with little teeth alone, will spring upon a tower of horn and hide that stands above its fallen mate."
Also when the Ring is about to be destroyed in the books, we get Sauron's perspective as he realizes how completely fricked he is, how he realizes the magnitude of his folly, and his last desperate attempt to seize his rings. Not to mention just how much more brutal Sam and Frodo's journey comes across
ok sam vs shelob sounds pretty cool. this is the first time a book fan has ever actually shared something about the books that sounds better than the movie version. i can't believe it.
maybe the internal thoughts are important. i hated the dune movie because the characters are so flat and shitty. but in the book we see a lot of their inner monologues which fleshes them out, so i liked the book way more (i read it after watching the movie).
>this scene doesn't exist in the books?
Jackson changed pretty much everything from the books, including most of the scenes, all the characters and most of the dialogue.
Nobody who read the books first recognises Viggos character as Aragorn, he's just a generic 21st century Hollywood action hero.
changed it for the better from the sounds of it though.
imagine of tom bombadil was in fellowship of the ring and the movie was 30 minutes longer because of it. the pacing would be wack.
Making fellowship 30 minutes longer would have been a good thing. Pacing doesn't matter when the movie is good.
>changed it for the better from the sounds of it though
If your idea of better is turning LOTR into 21st century quippy capeshit action flicks then yes Jackson made the books alot 'better'
I can't think of any movie change that was for the better. Maybe the worst change was to make merry and pippin bungling idiot sidekicks when in the book they're actually pretty smart.
Book merry and pippin actually knew about the ring for years and planned in secret to help frodo on his journey. They didn't just randomly run into him in a field like the movie
Many of the changes are for pacing. I was there, over 20(00) years ago on various forums complaining about the changes, mainly the over inclusion of Arwen.
But I can see now all these years and a million watches later, that all the minor changes are to simplify and optimize the pacing for a movie. If many of the omissions were included it would obliterate the pacing.
Maybe they wouldn't have so many pacing problems to solve if they didn't add shit that wasn't in the books. Hell the even found time to add pippin singing a song for denethor that didn't happen in the book. What nerve after all the songs they cut.
My big problem is that in cutting out everything except battles and Frodo & Sam's journey they turn Gondor from the shield of civilisation into a nation of buttholes that constantly need to be saved by the Fellowship.
Denethor got shafted pretty bad in the movie in which he's just a man. In the books he's obviously a hundreds of years old pure blooded numenorian and almost gandalfs intellectual equal, easily seeing through gandalfs plans. was denethor even using the palantir in the movie it's been so long
Holy shit this. I couldn't IMAGINE the Merry and Pippin from the movies leading the Battle of Bywater. By that time in the books it's well established they aren't your average hobbits anymore. They're hardened by war.
>They're hardened by war.
aren't they also haunted by it? i seem to remember some references to this. it would be like Tolkien to put in some references to what he himself experienced after coming back from the war.
How do you respond without sounding mad?
i'd have admitted i was pissed and then tackle him.
I read The Hobbit when I was 11. It was alright. Never bothered to read LOTR.
They were once men
They were once redditors
Great discord groomers of reddit
But then Hiro the Jap gave to them the janitorships of Cinemaphile
One by one they fell into troonyness
Now they will never be woman
reading is gay
bookgays have literally no counter to this
suck it nerds
The movies have so many scenes that are such Hollywood schlock that I was glad to have started with the books to have that point of comparison. Boromir is handled way better in the books even though Sean Bean is kino.
The movies don't handle the One Ring affecting characters as well, and don't make out Bilbo to be as iconic as he truly is. The scene in the books where they have the meeting at Rivendell with Elrond, Gandalf tells Frodo to reveal the ring to the others at the council, and there's an inner dialog of Frodo feeling sudden shame and embarrassment of bearing The Ring, and he thinks about wanting to put it on and run far away. Which I think is a neat detail about how the ring is currently affecting him. As for the Bilbo thing, he says to the council that he will stop writing his book and bear the ring once more, and it bring it to the fires of Mount Doom and destroy it himself, and Tolkien describes how Boromir was about to laugh at this when he suddenly stopped, witnessing the rest of the council looking to Bilbo with great respect. A room filled with elven lords, future kings, men of honor, all showing true admiration to this old hobbit.
Things like that are what make Tolkien's story feel so real and competent, and frankly those are things that just can't be translated into a movie.
The movies badly neglect Saruman too. In the movie he's simply working for Sauron but in the book he's more of a rival with his own plans and ambitions. The part where merry looks into the palantir and sauron misinterprets this reveal as saruman seizing the hobbit and the ring for himself is very cleverly done and excellently interpreted by gandalf. You miss all that in the movie
Also didn't they completely neuter the moment where Aragorn uses the Palantir to taunt Sauron into starting the war early? The movie showed a dead Arwen or something and then Aragorn freaks out and drops it. In the books he knows exactly what it is he has to do and tells Sauron right to his face that he is the heir of Islidur and he holds up Anduril the taunt him. Knowing that this would make Sauron believe that Aragorn has The One Ring and that he's claimed it for his own. All a brilliant gaslighting of Aragorn to distract Sauron from the fact that it's actually two little hobbits currently on their way to destory him (and this works). To me, book Aragorn feels like a true king. Someone truly deserving to rule. He's arguably the main character besides Frodo.
>He's arguably the main character besides Frodo
i don't think anyone would argue against that
They do. No wonder Tolkein's kid hated it.
Pretty sure Aragorn still kneels before Frodo and Sam in the books. After they wake up they're told they're going to meet the new king, and they walk through Gondor as the people in the city sing praises of Sam and Frodo the entire way. They finally make it to the King, and realize it's their friend Strider, and I'm 99% positive it says he kneels before them, before he has them sit by his throne, at his side, while singing a song in elvish about Frodo and the 9 fingers, the fall of Sauron.
>Frodo and the 9 fingers
well frick you too, butthole-agorn
that's some Bran the Broken type shit
>28 Arwen scenes we didn't need.
>You can make Gimli do fart & burp noises & nothing changes.
Bravo Jackson.
The movies do have a globohomosexual bent to them with "Men are Weak" shit that isn't in the books.
The books are unironically inferior to the movies. The movies cut a lot of fat and ramp up the tension that should have been there in the first place. In Fellowship of the Ring Frodo takes fricking months to leave the Shire after finding out he has the One ring, with the reason given that he basically wasn't in the mood to leave the Shire behind yet. Meanwhile the Ring wraiths are in the Shire and apparently within walking distance of Bag End but unable to find the ring.
>within walking distance of Bag End
They were like 20 yards away from bag end
Those 2 fat broad mostly ghost directed the films.
If Jackson really did it, It would just be Orcs drop-kicking eachother.
Filming them in Sheepfricker land was a weird form of nepotism.
but perfect, since the landscape was both familiar and alien and exotic
Legolas and Gimli are better in the books too. They feel like absolute bros by the end but it feels far more natural a development.
The back and forth between Gimli and Faramir is pure gold too. Total Bros.
>I have yet to teach you gentle speech
You think so? Gimli and Legolas seemed to get along pretty well right from the start. Despite the elves imprisoning gimlis father. That fact couldn't have been lost on legolas.
That shit in the movies where everyone gets into a fight at the council of elrond and gimli is screaming NEVER TRUST AN ELF!!! was a bizarre decision.
my bad it was Eomer
> 'And I will come, too,' said Gimli. 'The matter of the Lady Galadriel lies still between us. I have yet to teach you gentle speech.
>'We shall see,' said Eomer.
>'So many strange things have chanced that to learn the praise of a fair lady under the loving strokes of a Dwarf's axe will seem no great wonder. Farewell!'
Jackson kept giving Frodo's best lines to other characters.
Denethor the Saturday morning cartoon villain that run miles on fire.
>muh tom bombadil
nobody even remembers one of the best characters in the books that should have been in the movies
>an immortal being was destroyed by these things
Shit writing
gandalf and sauron are literally the same species.
I mean the giga manlet homosexual hobbits
yeah, and also, sauron isn't immortal at all
he's just pretty damn hard to kill if you aren't Eru Iluvatar