>New 52
How could have it been done better?
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>New 52
>New 52
How could have it been done better?
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Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
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To begin with, it would have to be like Ultimate Marvel, a new universe while the old one lives on.
This
Then again that was probably what Earth One was supposed to be for
This
If not, at least don't do Clark/Diana
It should never have replaced the actual ongoings. That is the only way an Alt U like this would work.
If the ongoings aren’t for traditional fans then the entire line will lack the revenue to subsidize garbage comics like this.
This.
But mainly this.
>le consequences
Nobody who paid for comics wants this. We want episodic capeshit romps by people not making statements of any kind.
Morrison and Johns books should have been firmly set in the old continuity while the new line was completely fresh.
>That is the only way an Alt U like this would work.
They did it before with Earth One and the Crisis but they repeated the same mistake of not being thorough about the break.
First off, this.
Secondly: HAVE A PLAN instead of just doing random stupid shit like Joker cutting his face off or Jason and his magic dimension.
You guys realized it'd be even worse, right? They'd have zero restraint working on both universes. The guy working on new Batman would make him Deadpool lite or some shit and the guy working on the old Batman would shit out dozens of new Batbrats "cause Bruce is getting old".
Maybe, but this is what they did with Earth Two and Earth One originally.
There is no way to be worse than what they have now.
Pretty much these. It never should have been done in the first place but if they were going to do it then it should have been an Ultimate DC situation. But given how DC is they would have never committed to it as a new alternate universe to the main DCU and would have it crossing over within 3-5 years.
at least have all the creative teams on the same page and give all the characters a clean start
This. this would have been for the best
by not doing the new52 at all
/Thread
bump
Less focus on big dumb events. Felt like it was going non-stop from one thing to another
>Look, it's Earth-3
>Look, it's Darkseid
>Look, it's the Anti-Monitor
>>Look, it's Darkseid
>>Look, it's the Anti-Monitor
that was the same event/saga/crossover/ event:
Darkseid war
Actually taken the time to plan it out instead of slapping it onto a publication revamp in another attempt to avoid doing the "Fifth Gen" again.
Don't do Convergence. Don't do DCYou. Or better skip it all and go to Rebirth.
>Don't do Convergence. Don't do DCYou.
those two were good, the bad one was new52
Don't do it at all. The best parts of it didn't need the reboot to happen (Wonder Woman had literally just had some reboot nonsense when it started).
Let Johns and Morrison finish their run. Have a year of awesome stories with consequences. Give old characters some closure. Then, actually sit down and make a plan and start fresh.
For starters they could've actually committed to the new universe idea and made it feel like a real beggining rather than a remix of stuff they like and don't like
>Batman has gone through four robins before he's 30 meanwhile Barry doesn't even know Wally West
>Two new earth lanterns when they should've cut it down to just Hal and Guy/John
>No jsa
>The justice league face off against the biggest threat in their first adventure
Just poorly planned overall, but it had some good stuff like Animal man, Swamp thing, Wonder woman, and Aquaman
If it was an complete reboot but they never have the guts to do that and wasn't some half reboot also if didn't feel like extremely 90's like even at the time it look dated.
As others said, have it compliment not replace the old universe like the Ultimate comics line. That doesn't mean you don't promote it heavily and try to draw in new readers. Don't frick with things which are iconic and we all know are gonna happen anyway like Superman/Lois, Diana/Steve etc. You want to hit a balance between just slapping old names on new shit but not just rehashing old stories. Like the 90s series, only change things if the old was bland or kind of ass and your idea is genuinely interesting, like what they did with Mr. Freeze. Easy to say I know, but if writing was easy...
Linkara was right.
The real failure was that they were unwilling to commit and make it a real reboot.
Linkara is wrong, as usual. If they committed it would have failed even more because all of the old fans would have left completely. As we saw the sales spike was very shortlived and all the newbies left again so they needed to have some stuff to keep the core fans around. It's more to the idea that rebooting was stupid and unnecessary in the first place.
Flashpoint happens, but it's not a reboot, just a Flash event as it was originally intended. The pre-52 universe continues until the end of Morrison's Batman, Johns' Green Lantern, JLI as it was intended to exist post-Brightest Day, and every Bat-Book that referenced Batman Inc or Spyral (The Dark Knight, Batwing, Robin Rises, Grayson). All the loose plot threads should be wrapped up because the reboot should be a hard one and work as a jumping on point without previous ties.
The event that happened after Flashpoint (I think it was Forever Evil?) is now the actual reboot and because of poetry it's called Final Crisis, because the first Crisis caused the last reboot. The final pages where Barry sees Pandora combining the timelines are now less incoherent and are fully planned out with all the retcons they came up with later, so it's made clear the timeline changes because Doctor Manhattan is stealing ten years off the timeline while corrupted by the Great Darkness.
The New 52 timeline should be fully planned out before it begins. So no Flashback issues, no Zero Month, no Zero Year event. The first comic isn't Justice League #1, but Batman Zero Year Chapter 1. Every title should happen in this point in time, with no ridiculous parallel timelines like Superman did. After Zero Year, Morrison's Action Comics begins and every title accompanies him. Let the story happen chronologically. If a reader requires a reading order later, you've already failed.
No half measures or false starts. If you're going to set up a Wildstorm even in 23 books, fricking go through with it.
Regarding Future's End: The reason everyone hated it was because it ends with the story undoing itself and making what you read pointless. Instead of that, just change the status quo and slowly create the Future's End timeline in the main universe. Everything could be back to normal anyway, the only difference is there would be a war with Earth 2 and Superman and Batman wouldn't be in speaking terms for a while.
NEVER let Convergence happen. Having two Supermans at once is stupid as frick and convoluted. Let Rebirth be a fresh start in the same way the New 52 should be. This means before Rebirth, let Snyder finish all of his shitty plots, meaning have all of his Justice League run, Metal and Death Metal before Rebirth. Finally, publish Doomsday Clock without editorial interference and let Manhattan reboot into Rebirth, which would then begin with Batman: The Knight, to be chronological again. Jon would be born here without any canon immigrant bullshit, and King's run should be let to run its course unimpeded by editorial with a marriage in the end.
Having two Superman’s is stupid and convoluted? Then why does LITERALLY everyone love infinite crisis era lmfao
Maybe because in IC the Supermans didn't end up combining and creating a new timeline we still haven't fully understood.
Damn this is as bad as what we got
Maybe because it IS what we got, moron, just unimpeded by editorial.
>DC
>Having editors at all
moron
- Don't create such a confusing timeline (All the Robins still exist, but somehow everyone is in their 20s)
-Don't let Jim Lee design costumes
-Don't frick over Wally West, and try to push some black kid nobody likes as the "real Wally West" to try and synchronize with the terrible CW show
-Don't try to modernize Superman.
-Just make an Ultimate DC universe if you want to do all this dumb shit
It had to be about more than content, it also had to be about distribution.
It debuted big and had TV commercials but it was never going to bring countless new fans into the comic shops/direct market/floppies.
I feel like the current era of DC is what's most sustainable and has the most potential. I'm not talking the execution of stories but the formats: more YA and Kids Graphic Novels. More Black Label/Elseworlds. More limited series and back ups with C list characters. Licensing out to manga and webtoon.
Again, not talking about the actual storylines but the ways they're trying to reach new audiences to try sampling DC.
The Earth One graphic novels were the first attempt but they just weren't unique enough.
It would have been expensive and risky but maybe the New 52 should have been an Ultimate style imprint, focusing on a few core titles like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Justice League (Flash, GL, Aquaman).
But rather than it be a Direct Market experiment, it's a retail chain experiment: 100 page Giants sold in Wal-Mart's or Barnes and Noble. The back ups are Ultimate style debuts of the lead characters family sidekicks like Supergirl, Robin, Martian Manhunter, etc.
Ultimate worked because it took advantage of a burgeoning trade paperback audience. There was access to it beyond the direct market and it was reasonably self contained as a hobby expense.
DC needed that for the New 52 to truly succeed.
Continued: the problem was the reboot edict came from Diane Nelson/WB bc they wanted a fresh starting point for DC multi media.
Marvel wasn't owned by Disney when they created Ultimate so they got to have their cake and eat it too: Ultimate for casuals, 616 for diehards.
DC needed to find a way to serve both audiences but instead, they just burned the existing die hards.
The Earth One GNs were redundant when DC already had things like Smallville and Batman Begins and evergreen trades like Year One and All Star Supes.
What they needed to produce was a tight self contained monthly universe built from the ground up... and the Direct Market in 2011 was not the place for that.
That's why a small line of extra sized anthologies for retail stores with cool artists might have been the calculated risk worth taking.
Let the Direct Market have the existing DCU and let it's audience have their version whether it means the Silver Age stays forever preserved in amber or the Trinity ages up and is allowed to have kids.
Let Ultimate DC be the young hip versions of characters that are friendly for merch and toys and video games and movies. And put it somewhere where casuals will see it.
Imagine if those New 52 commercials were for *four* books at "your local walmart"
We're all sick of the multiverse fad but the only way capeshit/shared comic universes can survive is if we embrace the Elseworlds model.
Just tell "alternate universe" stories. Let artists thrive in their sandboxes. Let stories breathe in different formats beside floppies. Don't worry about how everything is categorized into some multiverse numbering system where there has to be a "real official version"
That's moronic. 90% of cape comics are worthless except for the fact that they share a universe with an actual good book and will theoretically affect it. They need to go the exact opposite route, enforce extremely rigid and strict continuity and have characters constantly refer to things that appeared in other books to trick people into thinking those other books matter.
You are describing how the model has been for decades and you have observed how it lead to diminishing returns
>You are describing how the model has been for decades
I am.
>and you have observed how it lead to diminishing returns
No it doesn't. It elevates all the mid-to-shitty books nobody would otherwise ever care about. What you propose would be just accepting that maybe 1 book out of 20 gets readers at all.
>It elevates all the mid-to-shitty books nobody would otherwise ever care about.
Then why do so many books struggle to make it past issue 5?
Only a literal handful of the top characters can survive 12 months without needing a creative revamp to goose sales again.
>Then why do so many books struggle to make it past issue 5?
Because the industry is currently utterly fricked for reasons that have nothing to do with what you said and everything to do with all the writers being horrible degenerates who should be fired and shot.
>The Earth One GNs were redundant when DC already had things like Smallville and Batman Begins and evergreen trades like Year One and All Star Supes.
Green Lantern Earth One was kino tho and the only saving grace of E1.
It was a bad movie pitch.
You're a bad movie pitch.
Nah, it was awesome.
in theory a full-on reboot can work, as long as you don't keep making dumbass decisions for every character that ruins them. No one ever complained about New 52 Animal Man
Was it truly supposed to restart and takeover forever? Even at the time I always felt like it was like an age of apocalypse type thing just taking over temporarily
>Was it truly supposed to restart and takeover forever
Yes. DC did this every few decades, first in the 60s when they established that the golden age and silver age comic took place on separate worlds, then the crisis in 1986.
Easy keep the current timeline in tack and have the new 52 be a separate thing entirely. Still have flashpoint but instead of it changing the established time line have it be like the ultimate universe with marvel. However! I’d make it a point that the classic multiverse couldn’t interact with the new 52, so it would indeed be an absolute new 52.
>Secondary universe not attached to main
>Don't rush out 52 ongoings for the first year that is pointless when most got axed or were just Batman spin offs
>Have writers who have clear plans for how to hard reboot these character's for the modern age that gives them a unique feel
>New Flash and GL with different lore as a tribute to the golden to silver age transition of comics
Easy
It should have been a ground zero reboot
Supergirl and Robin Dick Grayson shouldn't even appear until a year in, Barbara Gordon and the Teen Titans for 3, Darkseid and the New Gods for 5 years, Jason Todd for 7, Tim Drake and the existence of the multiverse for 10 years ect.
They just threw all the toys in the toy box on the table day one with out rhyme or reason.
Also Morrison's Superman run was deeply flawed and their lack of cooperation with George Perez instantly poked holes in the New 52
You’re going full moron with this like all uncreative autists. You don’t need all those other buttholes. Just Dick, Kara and Babs are fine. They’re the most iconic versions of those characters anyway.
Writers don’t want to get bogged down by the real-time bullshit just because some autist can’t understand the concept of a sliding timescale, or floating timeline. These characters are fictional ie they have no reason to age because they’re not fricking real. They’ll age when the writer or editorial decides it’s appropriate whether through a time skip or retconning. Whatever works.
When all was said and done how many New 52 runs were actually good? Does that number even hit double digits
By not doing it at all
By keeping Wildstorm as its own thing instead of integrating it to the main DCU.
The bi8g thing would to actually be a damn reboot. Too many stories or events were still considered canon, yet others weren't. It made trying to figure out what actually occurred a damn nightmare.
Raceswapping and gayswapping characters immediately soured fans of them. I understand wanting to make the line-up more diverse, but that wasn't the best way to go about that.
New 52 was good. There were plenty of good books during it. Flash, Aquaman, the second part of Green Arrow, Animalman, Green Lantern sometimes, and Swamp Thing were all pretty good.
Also as the Legion shows, rebooting has the opposite of its intended effect and just makes things more confusing.
We didn't need 4 Batman books. 2 at most would have been fine. The Edge and Dark books should have been bi weekly anthologies
Ultimate DC when?
Why did DC need a complete universe reboot in 2011 anyway? What was the problem with things as they were in 2010?
The management changed at WB and DC. WB wanted to get more involved with DC stuff and Diane Nelson mandated that DC needed to do something big
The way I've always heard it is that a lot of editorial/management was on the chopping block with the move to LA so they proposed the reboot as a hail mary to save their jobs. DC got a temporary sales boost so it worked until Nelson left in 2018 and the person protecting them was gone. I'm also convinced that Nelson was basically forced out due to Justice League bombing. That was supposed to be the big thing for DC Entertainment and it failed, a few months later she takes a leave of absence for "family reasons" and then like two or three months later she resigns. Almost definitely the leave of absence was them suspending her while all parties worked out the details of her leaving letting her resign to save face.