>DESTINY often sparked discussions about its main character.
> It’s a tough call. In DESTINY, Cagalli felt most like the protagonist. The true lead character is the one who makes choices. A character who doesn’t decide, no matter how much screen time they get, isn’t the lead. In SEED, Kira made choices, so he’s undeniably the protagonist. Athrun made decisions, too, so I see him as a lead. In DESTINY, Kira lacked that decision-making, so I don’t view him as the protagonist. Athrun often felt like he was drifting, easily deceived by the Chairman, wandering from place to place. Shinn didn’t make choices, either. I think it’s interesting to view the story from this perspective. If you ask me which I prefer between SEED and DESTINY, without a doubt, it’s DESTINY. SEED is well-rounded but almost feels too neatly tied up.
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>Cagalli was the MC of Destiny
Now Fukuda has absolutely lost it. By this logic, Rey is the MC of Destiny.
I love how out of the blue that statement is, feels like the kind of bs Tomino would say.
He got the point though Cagalli is one of the MC, he is the main heroine of Destiny not Luna who is not relevant to the plot, they listed 5 main characters for Destiny, Shin, Athrun, Cagalli, Lacus,Kira, and Kira only moved to first list on the credits at last two episodes.
He didn't say "one of", but "THE protagonist" (after passing on Kira, Athrun or Shinn), which is something you'd expect to hear from a plebbitor, not the show's fricking director.
>only moved to first list on the credits at last two episodes.
And Cagalli was fully gone by Destiny's finale. She got a single fight in the ride her daddy built for her, mangled Yuna's uniform a bit and then she disappears from the action.
I feel he meant the one being most important to the plot since Destiny's mainly about Orb so it is Cagalli Story, even everyone is basically working for Cagalli until the end and Orb won, it has nothing to do with having many screentime at the end of episodes when she already got enough screentime episodes before that
>Destiny's mainly about Orb
The hell are you talking about? Destiny is about ZAFT.
>I feel (s)he meant the one being most important to the plot
Doing what? Getting bossed around by dipshit Yuna? Standing around in the Rouge and crying as Orb's forces do kamikaze attacks, even when it has no sense?
>Destiny is about ZAFT
But they are antagonist
And you point Cagalli internal conflict that made her being main character again she is also main character by setting, Shin has internal conflict as individual but by setting he needs Durandal
Cagalli did not need to do anything, She is leader she can ask, do you think Durandal do anything by himself
Cagalki didn't really do anything as a leader either besides saying "I'm the princess stop fighting" twice
Durandal was actively manipulating the public as a politician and on a personal level to the ZAFT characters
Reminder she was only 18 that time
>they are antagonist
>she is also main character
I know it's difficult for your starved slav brain to understand, but English uses articles.
>Cagalli did not need to do anything, She is leader she can ask
"Could as" is not the same as "actually asking". Djibril gave orders to his mooks and they obeyed. Cagalli didn't do jack shit in practice, making your argument moot.
Destiny boils down to protecting Orb from Zaft after the first 20 episodes or so. Zaft being the lead faction was a misdirect
ZAFT literally did nothing (successfully) wrong. The EA nukes Junius-7, and rather than drop a colony they just deploy N-Jammers defensively. The EA gets around N-Jammers, they deploy the Neutron Stampeder. The EA deploys Destroy, Destiny knocks it down. The EA deploys Requiem on civilian colonies, ZAFT only uses it to blast a military facility. Yes they unsuccessfully tried to use a giant laser against the Earth twice and tried to kill Lacus, but none of that succeeded.
The EA successfully destroyed five inhabited colonies—six if you count Strike destroying Heliopolis—and Berlin. Orb made mischief by developing the GAT series while pretending to be neutral. ZAFT gets beat up by everyone and has been incredibly restrained in its (successful) retaliatory activities. ZAFT is the most morally upstanding faction in CE.
Only by your western viewpoint. Orb are the good guys in the eyes of the staff and main Japanese audience because they are similar to Japan and that's the expected reaction it was written to have.
Well frick Japan then. Destiny should have been about the existential horror of being one of just 30 million Coordinators living in delicate colonies while billions of savage Naturals want to nuke you out of the sky. The crew of the Minerva should have clearly conveyed throughout the series, in response to Athrun’s pussyfooting and in general, that they felt morally justified in fighting and killing EA and Orb combatants because the EA actively attempted nuclear genocide against purely civilian targets like ten episodes in to Destiny. The old guy who gives the Minerva kids medals after Heaven’s Base should have been like, “Goddamn when I was born it was illegal to be a Coordinator, and then we moved to space because Naturals kept shooting us at cello concerts, and then they nuked our colonies. What the frick, our lives are terrible.”
For me, it's the flashback of the coordinator getting headshot with motion blur. Always gives me a surprised laugh from how over the top it is
Where are you people getting your information? The fricking wiki?
>The EA successfully destroyed five inhabited colonies—six if you count Strike destroying Heliopolis—
If you count Heliopolis, seven: Requiem blasted Januarius 1, Januarius 2, Januarius 3, Januarius 4, December 7 and December 8.
>30 million Coordinators
60 million Coordinators live in PLANT (about half a million per habitat, 5 million in each of the 12 clusters), which is about 12% of the total Coordinator population on the Earth Sphere.
>(うちプラント住民 6000万人)
It's a tiny number compared to the 7.5 billion inhabitants who live in countries of the Earth Alliance alone.
I had no idea there was an official figure, I was reckoning from 250k dead on Junius 7 times 120 PLANTs. 500m Coordinators worldwide seems wildly high given that making Coordinators was illegal when Siegel Clyne and Patrick Zala were born fifty years before the series, and that the Coordinator population was only 10m in CE 45.
Junius was more sparsely populated because it was an agricultural colony, more land was reserved for growing crops.
>500m Coordinators worldwide seems wildly high given that making Coordinators was illegal when Siegel Clyne and Patrick Zala were born fifty years before the series, and that the Coordinator population was only 10m in CE 45.
I was thinking the same.
If in the 26 years between 45 and 71 of those 10m Coordinators had two kids each, and each of them had another two kids per person (not couple)—which is a wild stretch given that we’ve only seen one- and two-child Coordinator households, and the protag generation hasn’t started having kids—you would still only have 10m+20m+40m=70m Coordinators, right? The remaining 400+m have to come from massive percentages (17%?) of the neutral and anti-EF countries turning their kids into first gen Coordinators between 45 and 71. And most of those are probably in Orb and Scandinavia because the anti-EF countries are all poorfricks.
Why does SEED act like Kira fighting for the EF is a huge shocker if five percent of the EF is Coordinators?
>And most of those are probably in Orb and Scandinavia because the anti-EF countries are all poorfricks.
That assumes that turning kids into Coordinators is an expensive process.
>Why does SEED act like Kira fighting for the EF is a huge shocker if five percent of the EF is Coordinators?
Because the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. In layman's terms, Fukuda didn't know or care about the setting's background.
>Why does SEED act like Kira fighting for the EF is a huge shocker if five percent of the EF is Coordinators?
It's more for the benefit of the viewers than anything else. That and the EA are probably marginalizing and covering up the contributions of their coordinators, The AF appear to be the dominant faction and they already treat Eurasian forces like crap and use them as expendable troops, I can easily see the coordinators being forced to work in the background with little to no acknowledgement by the rest of the forces.
>That and the EA are probably marginalizing and covering up the contributions of their coordinators, The AF appear to be the dominant faction and they already treat Eurasian forces like crap and use them as expendable troops, I can easily see the coordinators being forced to work in the background with little to no acknowledgement by the rest of the forces.
Correct on all counts. Let me cite from a different Great Mechanics special:
>Coordinators in the Earth Alliance
The Coordinator soldiers belonging to the Earth Alliance Forces had a stronger sense of patriotism and love for Earth than ordinary Natural soldiers, and they maintained a high morale, being strongly hostile to PLANT, which acted as if racial discrimination against Naturals was the consensus of the Coordinator soldiers.
Initially, the upper echelons of the Earth Alliance were said to have sent the Coordinators to the front lines, where the survival rate was low, or used them as decoys, placing them in extremely poor conditions. However, the officers of the General Headquarters of the Earth Alliance criticized themselves for the success of the Coordinator soldiers, who achieved high results despite the harsh environment and were inspired to eliminate the ZAFT forces; and admitted that their treatment of the Coordinator soldiers was a serious mistake.
Irving, the President of the Atlantic Federation, comparing them to the U.S. Japanese-American units that served in World War II, praised them, saying, "You fought not only against ZAFT but also against prejudice," and awarded the Earth Alliance Medal of Honor to all of them.
That is... strangely forward-looking and appreciative for the president of the Atlantic Federation. Before this, all I knew were that the Alliance had some "combat coordinators" who were involved in developing MS.
Sounds kino but mats also say beam sabers don’t clash
>Irving, the President of the Atlantic Federation, comparing them to the U.S. Japanese-American units that served in World War II, praised them, saying, "You fought not only against ZAFT but also against prejudice," and awarded the Earth Alliance Medal of Honor to all of them.
This is the type of shit that should be in the actual show as it flips everything on its head.
It’s the sort of thing that’s made up after the actual show is done by other writers trying desperately to justify things
You want to hear a staggering number?
>The total number of soldiers at the time of the formation of the Earth Alliance is 38.5 million (including 25 million ground troops, 4.2 million naval troops, 3.3 million air force troops, and 6 million space troops). Although most of the soldiers are Naturals, 2 million of them are Coordinators living on Earth.
Source: Great Mechanics July 2012, SEED DESTINY Mechanical Special Extra Edition "Earth Alliance"
Anyway, going by the numbers above, about 0.5% of the total population of the Earth Alliance is in the armed forces. If we were to take that same percentage for PLANT, then ZAFT's forces would number about 300,000. In other words, for each soldier in ZAFT, there are about 1,250 in the EA.
0.5% is the US military participation rate today when the US doesn’t give a frick. Germany hit 16% in WWII. Double that for PLANT on the assumption that Coordies are enlistment age longer, have women serving, and have the economy to back it up, and the ratio becomes 1:20.
Eurasians at Artemis ask Kira to join them and don’t mention having other Coordinators.
I’m moronic. 60 million * .32 is 19.2 million.
>Eurasians at Artemis ask Kira to join them and don’t mention having other Coordinators.
The way it was going, it was less "ask" and more "coerce". Still, in that case I refer you to
:
>Because the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. In layman's terms, Fukuda [and Morosawa] didn't know or care about the setting's background.
>7.7 billion total
That's surprisingly low even with UN estimates.
7.7 billion is the population of the Earth Alliance, which is only a handful of countries. The whole Official sources claim the whole Earth Sphere is 15 billion.
>PLANT Residents
>60 million
I guess that sorta makes sense if they all live on the north and south poles of each hourglass, but with a huge chunk staying in non ZAFT territory is rather bizarre given the brutal persecution of them we've been shown.
Don't ask me how the numbers make sense. I'm just going by what Mechanics & World says.
>global GDP is split evenly between Space ("mostly Coordinators") and Earth.
What’s Durandal’s tax policy?
>From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
Secret families are a thing that happens in real life. *shrugs*
>*shrugs*
Leave. NOW.
Reminder that the mass N-Jammer deployment knocked out power to a ton of the Earth due to the planet being super heavy of fission power plants.
Don't mind the millions dead from that.
Remember in Sneed Americ--- I mean the Atlantic Federation BAD!
Space!Japan and Not!Japan Good and dun do nuffin
Why didn't the Alliance just use the Fusion technology they had access to? The exchange that the Alliance leaders had when they got the data on N-Jammer Cancellers implies they were still struggling with an energy crisis well into the war
Were the fusion generators they were using a retcon?
They probably didn't have enough and the scale of production likely couldn't meet demand. If you suddenly have the majority of the grid go straight up DEAD any fusion plants you rush through are only going to be fixing patches of the grid. Even if they were going with a plan to go pure fusion they likely were going to be doing it as a rolling replacement, so the oldest fission plants get closed once the fusion plant that replaces it goes on line.
So going from a 30 year plan to a NEED ALL OF THEM YESTERDAY is a bit of an issue. Especially when the factories probably producing them are stuck on what degrees renewables or hydro they got.
It's pretty much a soft decapitation. Kinda like the nightmare solar storm scenario effectively blowing out massive chunks of the grid by overloading huge chunks of the infrastructure. There's no need for massive stockpile of these long lead up products, just the stuff for routine maintenance or with a pile for limited disasters. But when you're talking about pretty much EVERYWHERE having the disaster state things break down fast.
>Why didn't the Alliance just use the Fusion technology they had access to?
Nuclear fusion doesn't exist as an energy technology in CE.
I thought their warships were running on fusion so they didn't all just go shut off after the N Jammers turned on and ZAFT would win forever. You're not running a warship on fricking batteries
https://web.archive.org/web/20031204042935fw_/http://www.gundam-seed.net/special/column/column_01.html
According to this guy the ships are only have fusion propulsion so who knows what's actually powering the guns and electronics
CE never thought that far ahead, it has never been confirmed what powers the ships or things like the Destroy Gundam. There is an interview where Shigeru Morita has this to say:
https://web.archive.org/web/20031204042935fw_/http://www.gundam-seed.net/special/column/column_01.html
>だけど、SEED世界の未来史では、「核融合発電は実用化に失敗」していてね。Nジャマーの影響下では、宇宙船の推進用レーザー核融合パルス推進だけが唯一、可能なわけ。
>However, in the future history of the SEED world, "Nuclear fusion power generation has failed to be put into practical use." Under the influence of the N-jammer, only laser fusion pulse propulsion for spacecraft propulsion is possible.
Nuclear fusion does not exist as a viable or practical power source. Maybe they have lab experiments where it works, but it has not been deployed in any widespread way, so no fusion power plants on Earth to power civilian cities, and no fusion reactors in MS/MA/warships either.
The laser fusion pulse propulsion he mentions that does exist in CE is how ships move around, but doesn't quite explain where they get their power from. To produce thrust, they shoot a laser at a pellet of fuel, superheating it and causing a fusion reaction that produces heat and exhaust as thrust. I guess they could capture the heat to convert into electricity, but where does the power for the laser come from in the first place? Is this why the Archangel's activation in Heliopolis took such a long time to start up and they needed to siphon power from the colony? What happens if they stop the engines? Maybe they have a backup battery system that gets charged from the laser fusion engines, but would they be able to restart on their own? They wouldn't be able to loiter for very long and need to periodically laser some fuel pellets? If they're not moving anywhere but need to laser some pellets, what about heat and propellant buildup?
I have always maintained that they run on coal, because it makes about as much sense as any other possibility.
There was a theory that ships used a type of pellet reactor + battery system, based on the dialogue mentioning the Archangel's "Magnetic field chamber and pellet dispenser idling stable", and how the "fuel tank" gauge was at full power after powering up via the colony power cables.
Other minor details include the fact it has 6 main thrusters, 8 secondary thrusters, and 4 tertiary thrusters, but the display mentions 6 main engines and 6 sub engines, so it could be animation error or engines should have been "generators".
>Space!Japan and Not!Japan Good and dun do nuffin
Why do you clowns keep pushing this when time and time again, ORB is portrayed in several degrees of incompetence and scummery both in Seed and Destiny?
Because they're ignorant. Most of Destiny's conflict comes from Orb being pushed into doing things by external forces.
Because it's always portrayed as not Orb's fault and they're pushed into it by the big mean other countries and if they'd just not have their stupid wars Orb would be a perfect peaceful paradise. That might not be how it comes off if you think about it too hard but that's obviously the reaction the writing is expecting the audience to have.
Well, you could have it both ways. A lot of Destiny's core issues' existence are because Lacus, and Cagalli were afraid to step up.
And with Freedom, I think Lacus is going to realize that she bit off more than she could ever chew.
>ORB is portrayed in several degrees of incompetence and scummery both in Seed and Destiny?
Elaborate. The writing loves to have Orb (and their living incarnation, the Attha family) off the hook and innocent for everything that happens, making Cagalli noble and Shinn utterly in the wrong for hating Orb:
>Cagalli finds the Gundams and considers it a betrayal by her father
>(Astray manga claims that it was homosexual Sakaku who made the deal with the EA anyway)
>Heliopolis is destroyed by joint intervention of the EA and ZAFT
>Uzumi is not Chief Representative after Heliopolis, putting his brother as the official figurehead while he continues to be de facto in charge of everything
>Orb is invaded and occupied by the Earth Alliance, with Uzumi killing himself in the process
>Orb's surviving forces fight successfully to end the war
>In Destiny, Orb (once again independent) is forced into a deal with the EA by the Seirans, against Cagalli's wishes
>Yuna makes a plan to marry Cagalli for political reasons, which she accepts without question, despite it meaning she would become a prisoner; gets kidnapped by Kira
>Orb's noble warriors march into battle despite knowing the mission is wrong, and get killed in the process, making Cagalli cry
>after Durandal reveals Logos, the Seirans hide Djibril, forcing ZAFT to attack Orb
>three new super-Gundams turn the tide of battle against ZAFT; Cagalli is back in charge after Seirans are killed and Djibril escapes
>Orb becomes the de facto leader of the anti-Durandal coalition, which destroys Messiah
>PLANT and Orb sign a peace treaty
You're trying to look for something that can't exist. You want her to have her and Uzumi have a conniving c**t side and end up biting the dust like Azrael? We already know they're not perfect like Jesus is with how their decisions still fricked up their nations and they paid their dues for it. Kira and Lacus are more deserving of the criticism you're displaying.
>You want her to have her and Uzumi have a conniving c**t side and end up biting the dust like Azrael?
No, I want Orb and the Atthas to have flaws. For the sake of example: in G-Witch, Miorine's naïvete in regards to Earth and Prospera's schemes ended up with dead innocent people. The Atthas don't even have that.
>with how their decisions still fricked up their nations
For that to work, the writing should acknowledge they were in the wrong. Instead, they come off as noble yet powerless (until Cagalli suddenly isn't) to the events around them.
>and they paid their dues for it.
How? Uzumi took the "noble" way out for no reason at all, and Cagalli did nothing of any use. Even at the last second she needed Yuna to acknowledge her for the Orb military to do something about his misdeeds.
>Kira and Lacus are more deserving of the criticism you're displaying.
Of course they fricking are, but they're not the point of this discussion.
>No, I want Orb and the Atthas to have flaws. For the sake of example: in G-Witch, Miorine's naïvete in regards to Earth and Prospera's schemes ended up with dead innocent people. The Atthas don't even have that.
>The whole country in ruins and friends and family died because of their bullish ideals.
Why do you keep lying?
>For that to work, the writing should acknowledge they were in the wrong. Instead, they come off as noble yet powerless (until Cagalli suddenly isn't) to the events around them.
So you're whining because Cagalli didn't get enough humiliation. Shinn wasn't enough for you?
>How? Uzumi took the "noble" way out for no reason at all, and Cagalli did nothing of any use. Even at the last second she needed Yuna to acknowledge her for the Orb military to do something about his misdeeds.
Uzumi wasn't respected for that aside from the 3 Ships clique and Cagalli for all that bravado of hers proved ineffective at convincing Orb forces to stand down. The series is not shy about parading their failures.
>Of course they fricking are, but they're not the point of this discussion.
Point is that you're pointing your complaints to the wrong people.
>The whole country in ruins and friends and family died because of their bullish ideals.
Orb wasn't left "in ruins" except for Onogoro and some bombings here and there. The nation is in excellent standing on the international arena even after the Junius drop, with a full-fledged navy for Yuna to offer to the EA.
Even without any Coordinators, they rebuilt their damaged national infrastructure in record time.
>Uzumi wasn't respected for that aside from the 3 Ships clique
"Ideals" nobody drops or even questions as whether they are correct or not, except for Shinn, who isn't even an Orb national anymore. Even the Seirans pay some lip service to them.
>So you're whining because Cagalli didn't get enough humiliation.
I don't want humiliation. I want actual mistakes on her end. "boo hoo hoo i can't do anything about yuna forcing me to marry him" is pathetic.
>Cagalli for all that bravado of hers proved ineffective at convincing Orb forces to stand down
And whose fault is that? Honest question, not rhetorical.
>Point is that you're pointing your complaints to the wrong people.
There's no daylight between Cagalli and the Kira/Lacus side of things, other than the kidnapping.
>Orb wasn't left "in ruins" except for Onogoro and some bombings here and there. The nation is in excellent standing on the international arena even after the Junius drop, with a full-fledged navy for Yuna to offer to the EA.
>Even without any Coordinators, they rebuilt their damaged national infrastructure in record time.
Who knows at what state Orb was post Battle of orb 1. Maybe the EA occupied it for a short time and fixed up the place during the interim. Regardless, Onogoro is one of the main islands. Orb isn't a big country.
>"Ideals" nobody drops or even questions as whether they are correct or not, except for Shinn, who isn't even an Orb national anymore. Even the Seirans pay some lip service to them.
That's on Fukuda's fault for not giving enough coverage on the civilian side of Orb by Destiny. All we got are opinions from the brass and politicians.
>I don't want humiliation. I want actual mistakes on her end. "boo hoo hoo i can't do anything about yuna forcing me to marry him" is pathetic.
And what is that? Orb being reduced to a turd world African state? She's only being propped up thanks to her Jesus bro and his gf.
>And whose fault is that? Honest question, not rhetorical.
Herself She had that much agency even when the show and the audience keeps assuming she has none.
>There's no daylight between Cagalli and the Kira/Lacus side of things, other than the kidnapping.
Except for the fact that they're the true ringleader for her figurehead status. Rewatching the show will do wonders in fixing your numerous misinterpretations of the one character you have a pinpoint hateboner for.
>That's on Fukuda's fault for not giving enough coverage on the civilian side of Orb by Destiny. All we got are opinions from the brass and politicians.
According to the view crowd scenes we see the Seirans with their Logos goons have such a strangle hold on the media the Orb civilians have no idea what the hell is going on for pretty much all of Destiny. They seem to think Cagalli is going to be happily married to Yuna and look so lost and confused during the evacuation it seems like they have no idea they're being invaded.
>Regardless, Onogoro is one of the main islands. Orb isn't a big country.
It's big enough (left is the Kanto plain, right is Taiwan), and Onogoro is tiny in comparison.
>She had that much agency even when the show and the audience keeps assuming she has none.
If, by your words, the show (that is, the writing) assumes she has no agency, then she has no agency in practice. We can't deal with hypotheticals here.
>She's only being propped up thanks to her Jesus bro and his gf.
Stop being stupid. She's being propped up by... a bunch of people living in hiding, rather than her family name?
>Rewatching the show will do wonders in fixing your numerous misinterpretations of the one character you have a pinpoint hateboner for.
If you want me to enumerate her numerous moments of incompetence during Destiny, I'm more than willing to play that game.
>It's big enough (left is the Kanto plain, right is Taiwan), and Onogoro is tiny in comparison.
No shit. I just said Orb is not a big country. Onogoro makes up one of its major islands. What were you trying to prove?
>If, by your words, the show (that is, the writing) assumes she has no agency, then she has no agency in practice. We can't deal with hypotheticals here.
This is SEED. It is more than warranted when a lot of the info we get are contradictions from our resident schizo director Fukuda.
>Stop being stupid. She's being propped up by... a bunch of people living in hiding, rather than her family name?
Yes, that's the norm in CE like it or not. Copeland, president of the EA, is under Logos' thumb. Only ZAFT has a semblance of independent leadership.
>If you want me to enumerate her numerous moments of incompetence during Destiny, I'm more than willing to play that game.
Faster for all of us if you just rewatch episodes where she shows up.
>Only ZAFT has a semblance of independent leadership.
And even ZAFT is pretty much under Durandal's total control to be used for his personal whims. It just happened they actively elected him.
>Stop being stupid. She's being propped up by... a bunch of people living in hiding, rather than her family name?
NTA but he's right. Cagalli and Orb are pretty much powerless in Destiny without Kira the Lacus faction always bailing them out. Cagalli would have just been married off and locked away in Yuna's mansion if Kira didn't crash the wedding and kidnap her. Minerva would have totally blown away the Orb fleet and had Shinn mop up the survivors if Kira didn't try to save them on her behalf (and he still isn't able to save most of the fleet). The invasion of Orb would have gone about as well as Heaven's Base did for EA if Kira didn't arrive to fend off Shinn and send down the DOMs and IJ for Athrun to stop Shinn and Rey later. And Lacus pop up afterwards to wienerblock Durandal's attempt to get Meer to have the world turn on Orb. And if the Lacus faction and her super Gundam's didn't destroy Reqiuem then Orb would have been a smoldering crater (Orb's actual fleet couldn't break through and were less than helpful in the final fight)
The majority of Orb's power is that they are favored by the Lacus faction who keeps bailing them out of trouble. If left to their own devices Orb would have fallen to Zaft. And except for Akatsuki the majority of their major assets, Freedom SF IJ and AA are foreign made and brought into their use by defectors.
>their decisions still fricked up their nations
>She had that much agency even when the show and the audience keeps assuming she has none.
Her words in the letter to Kira that triggered the kidnapping say, verbatim, "I must do what I have to do as Orb's Chief Representative, no matter how powerless I am".
She calls herself powerless and the writing proves it as such: she goes along with Yuna's scumbaggery and wedding plans without objection, does nothing to stop Orb's soldiers from killing themselves except stand around on the Rouge.
How do you square that with your claims of "agency"?
She showed she had it the moment she socked Yuna and seized command at the Second Battle of Orb. Late and ultimately inconsequential since Lacus still pulls the strings, but it was there.
So Cagalli is utterly helpless, until she isn't. Got it.
For frick's sake, this writing is so atrocious. Pick a lane and stay in it.
Don't get mad at me. Get mad at Fukuda and Morosawa.
Technically no, Cagalli was helpless against Yuna until he'd fricked up so badly he had no choice but to legitimize her again because the country was already under attack. If she'd pulled that any other time he'd have said it wasn't her again and that he was in control like before. Cagalli really was helpless on her own the plot had to save her by having Yuna frick up so badly Orb got invaded again and then the invasion killed Yuna and his father so nobody could challenge her leadership afterwards.
Wasn't Yuna also somewhat competent early on? Like most characters, his competence dropped as the story progressed.
No, he had no real ability politically or militarily. He could pass for a con man no hesitation.
That seems right. I mistook his assertiveness when initially dealing with Cagalli for actual competence at anything else. Thanks anons.
Considering his competence immediately dies mid episode once Kira returns and Yuna starts whining like a baby I think Yuna was never competent at anything but emotionally manipulating Cagalli. Once that was gone that was the end of his competence.
Considering the overall writing quality Orb and Cagalli have about as much flaws as one can expect of the Seed style writing. They get wrecked twice and innocent people do die, just nobody important and the place is back up and running in record time but so are the EA and Zaft in Destiny despite the massive losses they took at the end and all their major military installations being wiped out.
You have to pace your expectations. It's not like this is unique to Orb, as several fricking Plants get blown out of space late in Destiny and the next episode nobody including people in Zaft really seem to care. This is just CE in a nutshell.
I always figured EA and ZAFT were both evil overall with some good people fighting in it.
Overall ZAFT is presented in a far more favourable light. Only a handful of ZAFT characters are ever shown as truly malicious like Patrick Zala, Durandal and Rau while even the most sympathetic Alliance characters either leave the Alliance (Archangel crew, Natarle in her final moments) or are treated like shit directly by the alliance (Extendeds, Sven)
Cagalli did barely anything after she took brain damage when she forgot to put her seatbelt on when she was in a Zaku with Athrun. Remember your seatbelts everyone otherwise you may cause your country to be burned down for the 10th time
Destiny is mainly about ZAFT. Fukuda must have read a different script and is letting his bias cloud his vision. Orb is supposed to be an ideal Japan but it isn’t really the faction the plot revolves around in Destiny.
>mainly about ZAFT
Only because the new characters are Zaft but the story mostly Orb this Orb that
Like someone said Destiny absolutely revolves around Orb and it's fate and protecting it from both the EA and later Zaft. The Minerva might be the ship the show follows for most of the first half but after the first arc even it mostly revolves around it getting caught up in Orb's internal struggles. We barely ever see Plant or even Zaft bases and cities, it's mostly Minerva flying around and running into Orb people and the AA.
We see far more of Orb in Destiny than we ever do Plant.
In theory, Destiny was supposed to be about Shinn and the Minerva. Perhaps at some point there was a vague idea to make them defect once Durandal came off as the true villain of the series, but the whole "bringing back the main cast" thing makes this an irrelevant point.
>and protecting it from both the EA
What? Orb was an ally of the Earth Alliance through most of Destiny. The only one opposed to it was Cagalli, who could never make an argument against it.
>>and protecting it from both the EA
Protecting it's ideology
The Attha's ideology, which didn't get much support when push came to shove. Orb's government, its military and, presumably its population too, went right ahead with the Seirans's plan to join forces with the Earth Alliance.
Because Izumi's ideology is the ideology of a hypocrite. As cowardly as Seiran was, what he did was a lot more tangible as a concept to running a nation than what dribble Izumi preached.
Many of the neutral Orb supporters likely died with Uzumi when Onogoro selfdestruct
>Many of the neutral Orb supporters likely died with Uzumi when Onogoro selfdestruct
Good observation. That means that Cagalli is, eventually, left alone defending a dumb ideology nobody supports except her.
I still can't get over the pointlessness of this whole sequence. Why did he have to kill himself to destroy the mass driver? It's supposed to be "heroic" and "selfless", but it actually comes off as cowardly: his nation was devastated, under occupation and now leaderless. Other than the obvious route of placing a timed/remote charges aside, couldn't they at least make their escape with the Kusanagi and live to fight another day? Even Cagalli was forced to exile herself.
It would've been interesting if Uzumi had suffered some real consequence for the choice to collaborate with the EA and having Heliopolis destroyed. But no, he's still in charge, and unless you were paying close attention, you wouldn't have noticed that he isn't really the Chief Representative anymore, but instead has his brother Homura as figurehead, while "Uzumi-sama" takes all the real decisions.
>That means that Cagalli is, eventually, left alone defending a dumb ideology nobody supports except her.
Nah she got big support from the military and you know now Kira-sama is there too
Uzumi maybe took it to pay his sin for the choice to collaborate with the EA and having Heliopolis destroyed
>Leaderless
Homura is still alive, Cagalli is not a great leader now she is only 18 but she will be in the future
>Nah she got big support from the military
They had a great way of showing it, by supporting Yuna's claim all the way to the frontline. If they had really been on Cagalli's, they should've supported her when it mattered. Yes, that means they should've pulled a coup d'etat to reinstate Cagalli, or at the very least have Yuna fragged, claiming he died in a "tragic mishap".
>Homura is still alive
And nowhere to be seen afterwards. Cagalli is all alone during Destiny. For all practical intents and purposes, he died on the explosion in Onogoro next to Uzumi. And even before that, Homura is a complete non-entity, except to delegate everything to "Uzumi-sama".
In hindsight, his character is yet another wasted opportunity. He should've been there as the actual successor of the Atthas and be Cagalli's new mentor of sorts, if she is being prepared to take leadership at some point.
>Cagalli is not a great leader now she is only 18 but she will be in the future
She hasn't shown anything to prove she could be even a decent leader at any point.
>For all practical intents and purposes, he died on the explosion in Onogoro next to Uzumi
No, he is the one in charge after the Onogoro incident
>She hasn't shown anything to prove she could be even a decent leader at any point.
She is great military leader, for politic she still needs to learn
>No, he is the one in charge after the Onogoro incident
Is that shown anywhere outside of being mentioned on some side material? Apparently, the novelization mentions that Homura being the one in charge during the EA occupation. That's what I meant by "in practice". If you go by the series alone, no wikis or anything else, Homura is completely gone.
And, again, he should've been back in Destiny, rather than just being "Uzumi's excuse to save face after Heliopolis but still be in charge of things".
>She is great military leader
Destiny proves she isn't. Also, learn fricking English, damnit.
Destiny actually shows Cagalli to be a good military leader, when she actually has the balls to assert herself and the soldiers are willing to listen to her. She pretty much completely turns around the Zaft invasion just motivating the grunts, even before Kira gets there and in the end all Kira really does is stonewall Shinn without being able to help out much by wasting Zaft's grunts (he does get to help the soldiers a little but not by much)
The problem was getting to the point where Yuna had fricked up so badly he had no choice but to give her command again.
>and the soldiers are willing to listen to her.
That's not how it works. If your troops can be easily be swayed by some moron yelling "she's a fake!", then your effectiveness as a leader is zero.
>She pretty much completely turns around the Zaft invasion just motivating the grunts,
I think the gold-plated Strike helped things more than just doing a silly speech.
>The problem was getting to the point where Yuna had fricked up so badly he had no choice but to give her command again.
Why not get rid of Yuna before things went to shit? The writing in this thing is so stupid you can shoot a zillion holes in it.
That's from the eventual, practical perspective of Djibril using the few competent troops he had available as sacrificial lambs after Copland refused to send additional forces to the Black Sea: ZAFT's forces led by the Minerva were a steamroller by then.
Anyway, I'm talking about the original justification Unato Seiran gave to join forces with the EA, which Cagalli COULD NOT RETORT.
Even if the Seirans had self-serving reasons to do their deal with the EA, their arguments were correct. Let me drag this back: in the aftermath of Break the World and ZAFT's second invasion of Earth, the Seirans want to push Orb into a treaty with the Atlantic Federation, arguing that.
>Orb cannot afford to be left hanging alone in the middle of a shooting war
>It would be selfish of Orb to ignore the rest of the world, reeling from a crisis
>Orb's neutrality would only make them de facto enemies of either faction
>Yuna (of all people, a bumbling imbecile) pointed out the folly of Cagalli relying on ZAFT by arguing they were too far away from Orb.
Cagalli can only shout back with, "No!", "However!" and stammer the same bullshit about "neutrality" without confronting the facts on the ground at any point.
>without Djbril lifting a finger to help them beyond securing his own escape
You say it like the EA had any forces to spare at that stage.
>. If your troops can be easily be swayed by some moron yelling "she's a fake!
They are not, actually they believe she is Cagalli, they only start following Yuna order because Captain Todaka did by shooting at her but that because he believed Freedom will save her
>I think the gold-plated Strike helped things more than just doing a silly speech.
Nah she is a leader, no matter you think her speech is silly or not, also she can easily take control over the situation at Onogoro also showed her being good leader.
>Why not get rid of Yuna before things went to shit?
Tell me how?
>Cagalli can only shout back with, "No!", "However!" and stammer the same bullshit about "neutrality"
Cagalli is afraid Onogoro be burned again, I think she doesn't have that much confident with current Orb military power and especially with Kira seems retired too
>Tell me how?
Land the Rouge in the Takemikazuchi and force Yuna to shoot her.
>I think she doesn't have that much confident with current Orb military power
That's stupid. Orb is even more powerful militarily than in the first war: they have advanced MS that can go toe-to-toe with a Gundam, and one of the most powerful fleets in the EA. And, unlike the first time, the attempted invasion of their territory was thwarted.
The Orb fleet would have gotten completely shitstomped by Minerva and Shinn and the only reason it didn't is because Kira tried to save it. And even then he couldn't stop Shinn from destroying most of it. If not for Kira's intervention Minerva would have blown up the whole fleet with it's positron cannon and Shinn would have mopped up the survivors.
Orb does not have the power to resist the big boys on their own. They only win out because of Team Kira helping them.
You could say that of any fleet, to be honest. Gundams and super-ships like the Minerva and Archangel are too much of a game changer.
Maybe but at the end of the day the Seirans despite their "logic" were wrong and Cagalli was right since siding with EA because Zaft was too far away to be a decent ally and the EA probably wouldn't attack them if they were allies but in the end the EA got smashed and Zaft invaded them anyway without the EA being able to do anything, so boy did the Serians bet on the wrong horse. If anything siding with Zaft (even though that would have have caused just as many problems in the end) at least Zaft probably would have at least made some effort to help them.
At best Cagalli being sympathetic to Zaft was the better move and if EA had anything to say about it they could complain to the combined forces of Orb's fleet Minerva and AA. At worse Orb is just too small a country to not be bullied around by everyone else without Kira and Lacus to save them so they might as well maintain their neutrality anyway because they're gonna get screwed regardless so they might as well keep their dignity.
Regardless at the end of the day even if Cagalli couldn't articulate this because Destiny relies on very Asian soap opera style writing where nobody can communicate Cagalli was correct that siding with EA was a bad call because all it got Orb in the end was a smashed fleet, Durandal gunning for them and no EA forces to help protect them and getting involved in the Djbril Logos scandal that made the country look bad on the world stage.
If she was right, why was she too moronic to explain it?
>Why did something dumb happen in Seed?
The worst offender is Talia "i'll kill myself for gil's sake despite having a child of my own" Gladys.
Man that b***h was wild
REY COULD HAVE BEEN A SON TO ME
>Capable woman soldiers are commanded not to enter battle because it's dangerous for them
Who the frick is he talking about? Cagalli isn't competent. And it's portrayed as manipulative when Rey tells Luna not to fight at Orb (so Shinn won't be distracted), and well-intentioned but wrong when Shinn tells Luna not to fight at Requiem.
>Cagalli isn't competent.
She was (sort of) competent during SEED, and Destiny had the aforementioned Talia.
In Destiny Cagalli, as is well established, blubbered and cried, but she actually wasn't very capable even in SEED either. She was an idiotic gung-ho meathead who did things to feel like she was taking action even if what she was doing was an active detriment.
As far as other women soldiers, Talia is competent the whole show up until she's suddenly pointlessly melodramatic, Lacus is treated as commander but doesn't actually DO anything besides ramble incoherent vagaries and just leaves the work to everyone else yet gets treated by the show like she's a brilliant leader (what, exactly, was her SEED mode in aid of?). Ramius is bad at ship captaining and doesn't get much better even right through Destiny; she has maybe one or two moments of accomplishment and is otherwise basically at a loss to do more than fire everything and hope it works, and is otherwise just there to have her breasts jiggle. Natarle conversely is an extremely capable naval commander who handily delivers Ramius her ass and only 'loses' because she defects right there on the bridge out of principle.
It's sort of hard to tell how 'capable' Luna is because she's relegated to turret duty for basically the whole show.
The only major female character missing from your list is Stella, who (despite being quite literally mentally moronic) was a fairly decent MS pilot.
Also, yeah, Natarle is the best character in this dumpster fire.
I'll add that Murrue gets carried by Natarle and Neumann. Neumann does crazy shit with the AA. He deserves Seed Mode more than Lacus.
Luna had some decent moments in close range combat early on, but yeah got relegated to turret. Being a sniper or heavy gunner in Gundam ensures you will never land hits on anyone important.
NTA but I'd guess because she was only proven correct in hindsight. Siding with the EA might have seemed like a logical move at the time except for that they were actually handing over the nation to a genocidal lunatic who was gonna get his own side wiped out, make everyone who allied with him look bad and then leave them high and dry when Zaft attacks in favor of flying to space and blowing up Plants then getting himself killed and leaving them with the fallout.
But Cagalli couldn't say that before it happened. It's like with Kira and Lacus's assumption that Durandal was the one that attacked them which fueled their crusade against him. It could have been wrong and they only had their hunches but in the end they were right and Durandal was in fact gunning for them all along.
So I guess that's the old cast in Destiny in a nutshell. They have hunches, which the people against them argue with seeming logic but then it turns out the old cast's hunches are right and the people opposed to them are secret evil bastards who are just using their "Logic" to promote their own hidden agendas, Get Orb in the pocket of Logos so the Seirans can personally profit from it/take out all Durandal's enemies so he can force the Destiny Plan unopposed respectively.
So in the end Cagalli and Kira have no logical leg to stand on beyond "I feel like we should do this" but they're right while the people against them are just actual supervillians deep down who are just saying shit that sounds logical to push their own evil agendas. Which is basically what you can expect of Destiny's writing.
Still in the end, Cagalli's call would have been the better one even if she couldn't justify it and it would have only been obvious in hindsight.
>Still in the end, Cagalli's call would have been the better one even if she couldn't justify it and it would have only been obvious in hindsight.
The way to do that is to offer a counterargument, not cede the ground completely to your opponent and expect the audience to automatically side with you because Yuna acts like a scumbag and Cagalli does an 'endearing' "stammering deer caught in the headlights" thing.
To be fair we already knew the EA was under Logos and Djbril's control by that point so the audience would be expected to side with Cagalli on that alone.
>It's like with Kira and Lacus's assumption that Durandal was the one that attacked them which fueled their crusade against him. It could have been wrong and they only had their hunches
There was essentially no chance that it was anyone but the guy who presented a clone of Lacus Clyne to the public pretending she was the real thing on literally the same day as the assassination, something the real Lacus might object to if she was still alive. The fact that the show doesn't explicitly spoonfeed this to you and people use the lack of spoonfeeding to try and claim it isn't true only demonstrates that a substantial chunk of /m/ is, in fact, dumber than Destiny.
I'm just saying, if someone were to present a "logical argument" like the guys are saying against Cagalli that logically it could have been someone else, which is what Athrun tries to do Kira has only his hunch to go. He couldn't decisively prove it was Durandal to Athrun's satisfaction either. Durandal basically did that himself when he tried to have Athrun eliminated for asking too many questions.
>The fact that the show doesn't explicitly spoonfeed this to you and people use the lack of spoonfeeding to try and claim it isn't true only demonstrates that a substantial chunk of /m/ is, in fact, dumber than Destiny.
The fact that one of the series' main characters quasi-logically raises the possibility that it could've been someone else counts for a lot here. Speaking of...
>He couldn't decisively prove it was Durandal to Athrun's satisfaction either.
How much of a complete imbecile is Athrun? Durandal told him outright that he needed Lacus' greater influence with PLANT's population to get them on his side (that entire sequence is even flashbacked on that episode). What else does he need? A filmed confession under notary?
Atrhrun has no reason to be on Durandal's side other than the plot needing to create conflict between him and Kira.
This writing is so fricking stupid it hurts.
Durandal tries to convince Athrun that he's only using Meer because he can't find the real thing and it's for the greater good as he uses Meer initially just to pacify Plant following EAs aggression. Athrun accepts this for the moment, but he doesn't seem to totally buy it as twice Durandal asks him to give him the location of the real thing so he can "ask her to help him instead" but Athrun plays dumb saying he doesn't know where she is even though the first time he knows exactly where she is and the second time he knows she's with the AA which Athrun shows he's knows the channels he can locate it with.
>Athrun accepts this for the moment, but he doesn't seem to totally buy it
Then why he tells Kira that they might be jumping to conclusions after the hit, if Athrun isn't completely on Durandal's camp? You can't have it both ways, dumbass.
Athrun can be suspicious of Durandal but still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until he has total proof.
>i'm gonna give the 'benefit of the doubt' to the person with the motive (put an impostor) and means (Coordinators in brand-new mobile suits) to kill Lacus, In the meantime, I'll keep fighting for him
If the goal here was to portray Athrun as utterly naïve and easily manipulated, then mission fricking accomplished.
Athrun did just fight a group of rogue coordinators earlier that denounced the peaceful ways of the Clyne Faction as well as a group that stole brand new mobile suits. Reasonable doubt was there. But Athrun didn't really do much investigating on that front either, not that it probably would have helped.
>Reasonable doubt was there
Any claims of reasonable doubts come off as worthless the second he went back to Durandal's side. You can't have it both ways.
>not that it probably would have helped.
Why wouldn't it? Meyrin was spying on him, and DaCosta found Durandal's journal in the ruins of Mendel. If Athrun had actually "investigated", he could've found things like the Destroy's schematics, meaning he had been aware of the Alliance's plans this whole time.
If the later episodes are any indication the second Athrun starts asking too many questions Durandal will order him arrested and/or killed.
That only happened after Athrun went full "uragirimono!" and Durandal sent his attack dog at him.
Even before Athurn asking about the Logos hunt and why he insisted on taking out Kira is what starts the process with Durandal and Rey in private saying it's too bad but Athrun obviously won't be compliant with their wishes, so they use the photos of the meeting with Kira to try to set him up as leaking stuff to Logos, and then after Athrun realizes he's being set up and beats up the guards is what leads to Durandal sending Shinn and Rey to kill him.
So it's likely Athrun snooping around would have Durandal attempt a similar set up, though he might not jump to murder just as fast and Athrun might have a fighting chance if Shinn was sent after him in Impulse while Athrun still has Savior either way it probably wouldn't end with Athrun finding himself particularly welcomed by Durandal anymore.
Because they're trying to do a samurai warrior death with a 'frick the Americans' spin with that sequence. It's meant to appeal to nip nationalists.
Orb is a symbol of the modern Japan
ZAFT is a symbol of imperial Japan
The Alliance is a symbol of Western invaders
EA honestly was not an ally to Orb in Destiny. Rather they were just exploiting them via the Seiran's being Logos's minions via forcing Orb to be their shield during the fights against Minerva then basically hanging them out to dry once Zaft attacked and Djbril ditched them.
Orb gained nothing from siding with the EA. All they got was nearly being wiped out by Zaft without Djbril lifting a finger to help them beyond securing his own escape
I don't think the heroine really has to be a fighter in a robot so much. There's a lot of ways you can make a non fighter the hero. See characters like Diana and Kihel. But the key difference is that they sort of, you know, did stuff. They were constantly making efforts to stop the outbreak of war, live each other's lives, do their juggling act and actually grow as characters. Cags just spent the whole series sulking while the grown ups talked. Diana probably wouldn't take that kind of shit.
>Diana probably wouldn't take that kind of shit.
Which is hilarious because, if you take their word for it, Turn A was one of Fukuda's main inspirations for SEED.
No he didn't. The main heroine of Seed Destiny if it had one is undoubtedly Lacus.
He said "protagonist". Different thing. In Wing, for instance, Heero is the protagonist and Relena is the heroine.
This makes it sound like Cagalli and Lacus are lesbos
Honestly going gay is probably Cagalli's best option right now given Athrun fricked off to be Alex somewhere. Either that or check if Kisaka Rambo is still around
Lacus's bed death would make a lot of sense if she was a closet case
>Lacus is just space Taylor Swift, her multiple boyfriends are just a cover to get to the hot blonde tomboy
Big lmao
Oh, you're one of those people. Don't you fricking start.
It's just Japanese doublespeak/PR interview babble. Give him 20 interviews on the subject matter and he gives 20 different responses all contradicting each other. I also doubt Tomino believes a word he spouts in his interviews with only a few exceptions.
SEED Freedom will be the CCA of the modern era.
except tomino is always right
Was Ange suposed to be Cagalli in Cross Ange?
Ange's design looks more like Stella though
Ange is Cagalli's backstory with Stella's ruthlessness and mecha piloting talent.
And Flay was the MC of SEED.
I like how she just gently bents back but her clunkers move like discs in air hockey
Why was this needed exactly?
What was needed?
That's fricking impossible. Cagalli wasn't even in the final arc other than voiceless cameos
We are entering the age of madman Fukuda. I fully anticipate this movie to be a glorious mindfrick disaster
Grendizer U, where he's getting combined with Okouichi is going to be a glorious trainwreck
That whole interview makes clear that Fukuda is the perfect middle management guy.
Post link?
https://www.zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=11047
>Fukuda: There’s no doubt that the original staff members play a crucial role. Whether it’s Hirai, Shigeta, or Okawara, they have been struggling right along with us on this project for nearly two decades. They share a common understanding of the work’s historical context and nuances. It’s quite beneficial to have team members who grasp the essence without needing everything spelled out.
It's telling that he names Shigeta, Okawara and Hirai in this paragraph, yet the two people that created the Cosmic Era, Shigeru Morita and Hiroyuki Yoshino, are nowhere to be found in this movie. It may be because they were among the few that could filter Fukuda's worst ideas.
Instead, the only "other" credited screenwriter (apart from Fukuda and Morosawa) is Liu Goto, who wrote the novelizations and doesn't have a single anime credit to his name.
>Fukuda will be even more autistic for the movie
YES YES YES YES
FREEDOM will be the G-reco of the CE.
Anon, what made G-Reco what it was is the retro-styled designs, and a lot of amusing, fun moments where the animators got to show off.
>Unfiltered, Untempered and Unleashed Fukuda
This already happened.
imagine Kira seeding and feeding Agnes
Genuine Unfiltered uNleashed fukuDa Animation Masterpiece
>please watch it in the theater
God I wish one of the winter/spring cons like Katsucon or Anime Boston would screen it, but realistically it probably won’t debut stateside until AX.
On-screen sex, acronyms, and gorey deaths?
I know Cucuruz Doan got a small cinema release in America and the U.K. The town I live in was showing it and I might have gone to see it if I wasn’t working. Hopefully they do the same for Freedom, unless Netflix snaps it up again.
It's for sure going to screen in SEA theaters tbh.
Five minutes of uninterrupted Kira banging Lacus, with jiggle physics.
>Kira
>having sex with Lacus
Good one
She could be possessed by Flay's notNewtype ghost or some shit.
Are those the same GSD novelizations that come off like the characters are completely bipolar? i.e. Murrue launches Kira into the battlefield to attack the Minerva, but then there's an extra novel scene afterwards where Murrue is criticizing Kira for being so stupid to launch into the battlefield.
I remember Anons losing their minds over that back in the day.
The only novelizations that I'm aware of are by this guy:
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/後藤リウ
>i.e. Murrue launches Kira into the battlefield to attack the Minerva, but then there's an extra novel scene afterwards where Murrue is criticizing Kira for being so stupid to launch into the battlefield.
>I remember Anons losing their minds over that back in the day.
Hm, wasn't aware of any of this. Got anything else?
Uh... I think Anon said the novelization added a scene after Athrun wakes up on the Archangel, and he criticizes Kira for causing everything to escalate to this point?
But then Athrun continues to act exactly like his GSD anime self after that, because the author still had to follow canon.
No one really cares about the novelization.
It's the same deal with The Edge. It's just published fanfiction (on the level of SRW).
Fans only care about the canon version of events, which is what's animated.
>Fans
Meaningless term.
And the reason I pointed out the novelization is that, again, their writer is credited in the movie alongside Fukuda and Morosawa. Odd, considering the other CE writers (Morita, Yoshino, Nomura, Ohnogi) aren't working in this thing, and this guy hasn't worked as screenwriter before.
>Meaningless term.
How?
Fans, as in "hardcore fans" look for every scrap of material that's laying around and try to learn and even understand whatever contradictions there may be.
What you're thinking of are casual viewers, who are only left with a more or less ordered canon and don't concern about contradictions between TV releases like, for instance, sword.
>>Can you tell us about the characters unveiled in this month’s issue? In the 2021 interview, you mentioned Shinn had a gripping drama. Who captures your attention now?
>Fukuda: That statement was during Shin’s storyboard phase. When sketching Athrun, he becomes my focal point. It’s just how it goes. Rather than evenly distributing affection, as you immerse yourself in the story, you naturally develop affection for each character and consider various possibilities for them. You think about their background and how they’ve lived up until today. It’s quite labor-intensive. It’s not about the work involved but about taking time to reconcile within yourself. Even if storyboards and scripts are ready, as we move to the next step, we think about everything, and there’s quite a bit of refining and rebuilding based on the previous work. Whether it’s done well or not, you can really only tell from the final outcome. And yes, Shinn does look impressive. Given the tweaks I made to his scenario for this film, I believe audiences will resonate with him.
Oh god
>Given the tweaks I made to his scenario for this film, I believe audiences will resonate with him
This reminds me of the Chinese curse "may you live in interesting times"
the man is fricking deranged. Not even the fun Tomino unhinged kind, just the kind that's simply arrogant beyond reason.
what the frick???
It's either going to be complete horseshit or a fricking masterpiece
I will trust Fukada on all of this. Seed Freedom will be dense and require total attention. It may be a year away, but I will prep myself for it.
>It may be a year away, but I will prep myself for it.
It's out in January anon it's like 4 months away.
Most anons here can't get to a Japanese theater, gotta wait for subs. Unless you're like me and want to see it dubbed.
The week after it airs in Japan when Elevens are sharing vague summaries and /m/ is making up fake spoilers will be amazing.
I cannot believe Sven saved the day.
>Dearka bros we finally fricking won
I liked the Bunker Buster, neat upgrade.
>Bunker Buster Gundam
That's way too cool to be real
If it's anything like Shin KR and Gridman Universe, some /m/an will probably watch it in Japan and give the summary immediately.
In all likelihood, they will sell BDs on the avant premiere as it has been before, which will be quickly be ripped and uploaded to a Japanese P2P, then re-uploaded to some chink server, then re-uploaded to Nyaa.
No, the BDs won't be out for a while.
They are, however, selling BDs of the 'Special Edition'.
Not the official commercial release. Anime movie premieres sometimes come with a disc release for the lucky few
.
Was an incredibly bold choice for sure to have Stargazer show up and solo Impulse, Freedom, Justice and Destiny all at once.
I am guessing he has never watched his own show and this is all in the perspective of during production
god, I feel dirty after reading this. I need to read a Tomino interview to clean myself
>It's real
What the frick, I refuse to believe it's a correct translation. Someone couldn't be this dumb.
You are talking about the main director of Seed Destiny. Of course he's that stupid.
I can't believe Cagalli groomed the La Flaga clone to be her ideal husband. Genuinely shocked when I saw that on the big screen.
>I don’t think prior knowledge is necessary.
lmao we're getting a western release
FUKUDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Considering the show never acknowledges the background stuff is it even worth considering
For shits and giggles, yes.
Kira and Cagalli should've ended up together. Frick that dying c**t for ruining SEED with her pink-haired troon self-insert.
>Kira and Cagalli should've ended up together. Frick that dying c**t for ruining SEED
It was Fukuda's idea to make them siblings, not Morosawa. Even she was surprised to hear that.
>YOSHINO: One day, Mr. Fukuda suddenly said, "I have a thought. I think Kira and Cagalli are twins”. Everyone, including Morosawa-san, was like, "What?”
>FUKUDA: Indeed there was.
[...]
>YOSHINO: Morosawa-san was convinced that "since I was surprised, the audience will definitely be surprised" (laughs).
>troon
Anon, I hate Lacus with a passion, but keep your /misc/itical canards out of this. We've had enough of that shit in G-Witch threads.
Do you think Freedom will continue where Destiny left off with Durandal destroying racism by becoming the CEO of Geneticism or will there be yet another Coordinator-Natural ethnic conflict?
>becoming the CEO of Geneticism
Keep your unfunny Twitter memes out of this place.
take your b***h ass behavior offline
Frick you moron
I've never seen a tolerable Durandal cosplay.
There’s a photo that’s been floating around for a while of some Russian con with a dude dressed as Durandal and a guy behind with a SF head. I need to find it, he didn’t look terrible. Looked very Russian mind you, but not bad
I still don't understand what was Athrun doing at Orb in that two years before Destiny?
He was dissociating into Alex Dino
Fast forward to FREEDOM and Alex has completely taken over his mind
Who is Alex Dino and what is he doing at Orb?
Alex Dino is a simple bodyguard. But Alexander Dinosaur? He's Orb's true leader.
He was working for Cagalli as her bodyguard and being in hiding under a false name because he fought against Plant at the end of the war. While he could have gotten a pardon like Dearka did, Athrun didn't really want one because most of his family and friends in Plant other than Yzak and Dearka were dead and there was nothing but bad memories there
How long do you think it'll take for a translated version to show up in theaters?
My brain just had an aneurysm trying to decipher this logic.
I believe the scene is with Murrue after Kira wakes up post Freedom destruction where she basically tells him off that he had this coming for busting into Zaft's fights and they should have left them alone. Because the author of that series is very pro Zaft but had to follow the canon and very clearly resented the fact that Zaft had to be the bad guys for the final arc. It also changes the Orb battle so that Athrun gets the shit kicked out of him by Shinn who rants about why he couldn't just commit to Zaft and forget about Orb to the point where Kira has to save him and in the final battle Shinn at least manages to take off one of IJ's arms before Athrun creams him.
Athrun having that convo with Kira wouldn't make sense as by the time Athrun is in AA's med bay he already knows Kira was correct and Durandal was evil because Durandal just tried to kill him.
>pro-ZAFT novel author working on the movie
Shinnbros!
Shinn isn't ZAFT anymore. Note the COMPASS emblem on the helmet.
Is COMPASS a multinational force? Peacekeepers?
The most common guess is that "COMPASS" is the official name for Lacus' independent armed faction.
It has people from both Zaft and Orb in it so that would seem to be.
There's no really much to look forward to when the very first poster and first teaser trailer basically presented this as Kira and Lacus: The Movie
Shinnbros
we're finally Shinnough
ZAFT is honestly what UC tries to portray Zeon as with the nonstop Zeonwank. While Zeon and ZAFT both end up being headed by genocidal leaders, ZAFT is honestly way more justified in SEED as they were attacked first and tried a nonviolent approach with the neutron jammers.
I wonder if he regrets the shit his wife did to the story.
Not at all, since more than half of the terrible ideas in this thing are his. Morosawa was merely the executioner because nobody wanted to work with Fukuda.
Brave, Fukuda
>In DESTINY, Cagalli felt most like the protagonist.
Fukuda didn't watch his own show, or just makes up shit for interviews to drive interest.
Cagalli is such a sexy tomboy and lovely girlfriend to Athrun, which makes it more painful that she is shafted hard in Destiny.
She's an obnoxious whiny c**t whose schtick only became evident in Destiny, when she had no real power or influence in the story to speak of.
She is the Goddess of Victory.
But never when she is at Athrun's side.
That's why she should be at Kira's side.
Gundam sneed
At this stage, we have a whole taxonomy of shitposters in these threads:
>(You) with your utterly unfunny Cinemaphile meme
>Duel's "c*pe" garbage
>the "This is why Blue Cosmos is depraved" copypasta
>getting filtered by Duel
KWAB
sneed is a shitty forced unfunny meme and everyone who spouts it need to expire immediately
chuck's
>Cagalli felt most like the protagonist
I thought Athrun was the main character or at minimum the main POV much like Watson for Shinn or Kira's Sherlock. He's the conflicted one the story mostly follows. Kira getting the Strike Freedom is around the same time Athrun defects and gets rescued by the Archangel.
>Why Athrun rather than Kira [to serve as the POV for the Destiny Special Editions]?
Morosawa: Because Athrun is the one who sits between the two axes of Shinn and Kira. He’s the only one who knows both Kira and Shinn, and though all three of these axes were portrayed in the TV version, I thought this would make Athrun the easiest to follow.
(https://trafalgarlog.wordpress.com/2023/07/25/series-composition-head-chiaki-morosawa-talks-plans-for-a-4-part-series-excerpt-from-animage-vol-334-april-2006/)
Fair, but having his character repeat the beats from the first series in the sequel was a mistake in the first place.