While Sam showed heroic qualities he did have the leadership to undertake the task himself. For example does Sam volunteer to take it at the council? No. Would Sam have made the decision to break the fellowship and go to Mordor alone? Doubtful.
The ring thought it could manipulate frodo, and it was right. If they had given Sam the ring the ring would’ve gone crazy trying to get everyone to kill sam, and Sam would’ve just cast it down at some point, because he wouldn’t have felt it was worth it.
Frodo just had it too long. Sam would have been corrupted in time as well.
Sam should have taken the ring off Frodo in this scene and finished the job himself. He was the only one with enough resistance left to intentionally destroy the ring.
>Sam should have taken the ring off Frodo in this scene and finished the job himself.
Did you forget the part in Fellowship when Elrond recalled the moment Isildur took the ring for himself when they were in Mount Doom, a short time after Sauron was killed?
The lord of the rings takes a lot of the ideas that are present within the great chain of being. Each character in the good side is living to the truest example of their spot within the chain, not only understanding where they are within it, how they interact within it, but are also humble to this hierarchical structure.
The characters on the bad side try to escape or elevate their own status higher then what was alloted to them.
Sam is not high enough within the order to bear that type of weight that the ring requires for the task at hand, but he is the greatest example of the power of understanding one's place/position to its fullest extent.
I think Tolkien said that no one could willing destroy the ring. The ring grows stronger the closer it is to Mordor, in mount doom it would instantly corrupt anyone
The ring is literally a living thing you fricking moron, it can choose who to frick with within is immediate vicinity. Go back to watching capeshit, more your speed
nta but the ring works through manipulating your emotions, particularly fear. i think sam was just so stalwart, courageous, loyal, and probably just so fricking tired and frustrated from wanting the journey to be over that it had no effect on his willpower. evil can never overpower good when good is at its peak, and particularly when you're in the service of others for their sake.
nta but the ring works through manipulating your emotions, particularly fear. i think sam was just so stalwart, courageous, loyal, and probably just so fricking tired and frustrated from wanting the journey to be over that it had no effect on his willpower. evil can never overpower good when good is at its peak, and particularly when you're in the service of others for their sake.
It tried to, it had nothing he wanted, therefore it stayed with frodo.
So it couldn't work on Sam. So why didn't Sam take the ring from Frodo and throw it himself instead of having
Because frodo wouldn’t let Sam take it and sam wasn’t going to take it by force
8 months ago
Anonymous
>risking the whole Middle Earth so you are not mean to your delusional friend, who can't do anything anyway since he is much more exhausted
Yep like I said, nice lore Tolkien
8 months ago
Anonymous
Yep, Sam was a good dude. Where friendship mattered more than world domination.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>world domination.
What are on about? >NOoo don't temporarily hurt his fiffies, since he'll come back to his senses after the Ring is destroyed. This is much more important than everyone getting killed
8 months ago
Anonymous
The ring tempted sam with world domination, as best it could make sam understand that concept (make the world a garden) and Sam wasn’t tempted. Because Sam didn’t care about those larger things, he cared about his friend.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Sam didn’t care about those larger things, he cared about his friend.
So he could destroy the Ring and this
https://i.imgur.com/7j1Ox9A.jpg
>No Star Wars moments like this
was just theatrics for the reader's heartstrings.
Taking the ring from Frodo would have shattered his psyche at that point, it was inches from possessing him at any given point after Cirith Ungol.
> it was inches from possessing him at any given point
I don't think so
8 months ago
Anonymous
>I don't think so >think
You seem new at it. Try to do it some more and things will make more sense.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Nice one. Everyone sidesteps the question and telling Sam was a good boy and would never hurt Frodo's feelings and it'd be better for the world to end, but yeah I guess I should make the story by myself since Tolkien fricked that part up.
Why do I need to keep repeating that the ring did everything it did to Sam and it didn’t work?
Ok? So Sam instead of carrying Frodo and risking everything could just take the Ring from him and finish the job in 5 minutes.
8 months ago
Anonymous
No one is sidestepping that question. Friendship matters more to Sam than world domination. If Sam had been chosen to carry the ring, the ring would’ve been able to work that against him to get him to relinquish it.
8 months ago
Anonymous
But it's not world domination. Don't make it sound like the world goes from one ruler to the next. Sam chooses his friend having a misunderstanding instead of saving millions from death, torture and enslavement. >work that against him to get him to relinquish it
It wouldn't work that quick. They were right there on Mt Doom. There was not some grand journey to take its toll on Sam. Literally 10 minute sprint.
>Sam takes the ring >this completely breaks frodo >the ring now uses frodo to manipulate Sam into giving it back so it can just run back to Sauron
This anon
The ring needed to be with someone it thought it could tempt. And even being with frodo, it fricked with everyone it could
Why do I need to keep repeating that the ring did everything it did to Sam and it didn’t work?
disagrees with you. It could do frick all to Sam. Even if it could it'd need time, it wouldn't be instant changing of his character, especially when Sam already knows that the Ring influences everyone
8 months ago
Anonymous
Sam carrying Frodo is literally easier than carrying it himself. >It could do frick all to Sam.
Wrong. Just because it can't tempt him with power doesn't mean it can't affect him in other ways, which by the way it literally does at Cirith Ungol.
Also as for dodging points, you continue to dodge the point that taking the ring would break Frodo's sanity. Even if Sam were a ringproof superhero Frodo is more precious to him than anything or anyone else.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Sam carrying Frodo is literally easier than carrying it himself.
No it wouldn't. And Frodo fricked it up at the end anyway and it was thanks to Gollum that evil was defeated. >would break Frodo's sanity
Maybe. But even if it did; so? He was weak and delirious at that point. Destroying the Ring would bring him back to himself anyway. >more precious to him than anything or anyone else.
Then that is a stupid point of the plot, no different than Naruto and SASUKEEE, and should make everyone laugh at it.
But I doubt that was Tolkien's goal so he made that scene just for the heartfelt Sam monologue without thinking it through.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>No it wouldn't.
Yes it would. See? I can do it too. The ring right next to the Cracks is extremely powerful, but it can't weigh down anyone but the ringbearer. Additionally, Frodo is emaciated from his time in (and out) of Mordor, the movie scene hams up how heavy Frodo seems but in the book it's near effortless for Sam. >Destroying the Ring would bring him back to himself anyway.
Pure supposition. Also seems unlikely since Frodo never fully recovers from his time as ringbearer. Sam simply would not take that risk at any rate. >Then that is a stupid point of the plot
So you concede a point, at least. Read
The lord of the rings takes a lot of the ideas that are present within the great chain of being. Each character in the good side is living to the truest example of their spot within the chain, not only understanding where they are within it, how they interact within it, but are also humble to this hierarchical structure.
The characters on the bad side try to escape or elevate their own status higher then what was alloted to them.
Sam is not high enough within the order to bear that type of weight that the ring requires for the task at hand, but he is the greatest example of the power of understanding one's place/position to its fullest extent.
, everything in LotR is intentional.
8 months ago
Anonymous
I don’t know what’s wrong with you or how to correct your faulty cognition.
8 months ago
Anonymous
The ring can’t tempt sam directly, the ring can frick with those Sam views as friends. But when it’s it’s just frodo, as the ringbearer, the ring has no sway over sam.
This shouldn’t be this difficult.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>The ring can’t tempt sam directly,
Depends on how close he is to it. It literally was able to show him visions and nearly take him over just from when he picked up Frodo. Likewise obviously Boromir was tempted despite almost never coming in contact with it, and Gollum could feel it and used it to chase down Frodo.
There's obviously a radius of influence at the very least.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Sam takes the ring >this completely breaks frodo >the ring now uses frodo to manipulate Sam into giving it back so it can just run back to Sauron
8 months ago
Anonymous
The ring needed to be with someone it thought it could tempt. And even being with frodo, it fricked with everyone it could
8 months ago
Anonymous
But not Sam, right?
8 months ago
Anonymous
Why do I need to keep repeating that the ring did everything it did to Sam and it didn’t work?
8 months ago
Anonymous
You should make some friends troon
8 months ago
Anonymous
Taking the ring from Frodo would have shattered his psyche at that point, it was inches from possessing him at any given point after Cirith Ungol.
That's why he should care for Frodo by taking the ring from him, relieving him from that burden and threw it himself in the fire. No last minute corruption as well where everything hangs to chance with Gollum
Explain how he was going to get the ring from him
Sam fought off gollum so frodo can reach the edge
Sam then followed frodo to the edge but was something like 30ft-ish away
If at any point he had tried to take the ring from frodo between this scene and after he saved him from the tower, frodo would have freaked the frick out and considered it an attack
The ring was FRODO'S responsibility. HIS task. Not sam's
No matter how you try to argue it
Sam could NOT have destroyed the ring
One theory is that he's essentially an avatar of Eru choosing to live in and enjoy the world he created. The reason he doesn't do anything to help the war of the Ring is because he wants his children to defeat evil (mostly) on their own
>He felt that he had from now on only two choices: to forbear the Ring though it would torment him; or to claim it, and challenge the Power that sat in its dark hold beyond the valley of shadows. Already the Ring tempted him, gnawing at his will and reason. Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Stong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dûr. And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be.
This could have worked if the guy standing in front was swinging at his head at the same time and the guy who hit his lightsaber connected 2 seconds earlier. Than it would look like he was ducking to dodge the one guy taking his head off while blocking the other. Instead it just looks goofy as frick when he bends down and waits 2 seconds for the one guy to casually hit his lightsaber for no reason.
Han saving Luke by cutting open the tantan or whatever its called was effectively the same shit
I'm sure the games and comics and shit have all sorts of moments
Not directly, he was just so fundamentally different from Sauron that the ring's temptations seemed comical and unfitting. >You will make the whole world a lovely garden >I'll what?
>Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend
>share the loan
>I can't recall the feel of digits Sam
Yeah thank God.
Incorrect!
Why is Crosshair so great? He's so edgy, but his storylines break him so much.
He is a figure of strong pathos that appeals to a man's struggle against internal and external, existential dreads. In short, he is "literally me."
And Frodo still couldn't destroy the ring. They should've just given to Sam to start with.
No one could resist the ring forever dummy, not even Sam.
Except Sam was stalwart to the end and didn't try to steal it or stop Frodo destroying it.
Sam didn't carry the ring all the time as Frodo did. That's the difference.
While Sam showed heroic qualities he did have the leadership to undertake the task himself. For example does Sam volunteer to take it at the council? No. Would Sam have made the decision to break the fellowship and go to Mordor alone? Doubtful.
The ring thought it could manipulate frodo, and it was right. If they had given Sam the ring the ring would’ve gone crazy trying to get everyone to kill sam, and Sam would’ve just cast it down at some point, because he wouldn’t have felt it was worth it.
That's not how the ring works. Nice headcanon tho.
Frodo just had it too long. Sam would have been corrupted in time as well.
Sam should have taken the ring off Frodo in this scene and finished the job himself. He was the only one with enough resistance left to intentionally destroy the ring.
>Sam should have taken the ring off Frodo in this scene and finished the job himself.
Did you forget the part in Fellowship when Elrond recalled the moment Isildur took the ring for himself when they were in Mount Doom, a short time after Sauron was killed?
The lord of the rings takes a lot of the ideas that are present within the great chain of being. Each character in the good side is living to the truest example of their spot within the chain, not only understanding where they are within it, how they interact within it, but are also humble to this hierarchical structure.
The characters on the bad side try to escape or elevate their own status higher then what was alloted to them.
Sam is not high enough within the order to bear that type of weight that the ring requires for the task at hand, but he is the greatest example of the power of understanding one's place/position to its fullest extent.
Amazingly well said, I never really thought of it that way before.
So the moral of the story is to know your place and bend the knee to the king?
Yes. They were children bed time stories after all.
know your place in the divine plan and bend the knee to the kingdom of god, yes
kingdom of who?
I think Tolkien said that no one could willing destroy the ring. The ring grows stronger the closer it is to Mordor, in mount doom it would instantly corrupt anyone
>carrying Frodo doesn't let the Ring affect Sam
>they could just put it in a box and not feel a thing the whole way
Cool lore there Tolkien
The ring is literally a living thing you fricking moron, it can choose who to frick with within is immediate vicinity. Go back to watching capeshit, more your speed
Then why didn't it work on Sam? Why didn't he just take the ring from Frodo and throw it himself instead of carrying him and risking everything?
Why didn't they just fly on the eagles?
nta but the ring works through manipulating your emotions, particularly fear. i think sam was just so stalwart, courageous, loyal, and probably just so fricking tired and frustrated from wanting the journey to be over that it had no effect on his willpower. evil can never overpower good when good is at its peak, and particularly when you're in the service of others for their sake.
The ring decided letting frodo think Sam was trying to take the ring for himself would be more effective than tempting Sam to actually keep it.
>can't do both at the same time
It tried. It failed.
So it couldn't work on Sam. So why didn't Sam take the ring from Frodo and throw it himself instead of having
Because frodo wouldn’t let Sam take it and sam wasn’t going to take it by force
>risking the whole Middle Earth so you are not mean to your delusional friend, who can't do anything anyway since he is much more exhausted
Yep like I said, nice lore Tolkien
Yep, Sam was a good dude. Where friendship mattered more than world domination.
>world domination.
What are on about?
>NOoo don't temporarily hurt his fiffies, since he'll come back to his senses after the Ring is destroyed. This is much more important than everyone getting killed
The ring tempted sam with world domination, as best it could make sam understand that concept (make the world a garden) and Sam wasn’t tempted. Because Sam didn’t care about those larger things, he cared about his friend.
>Sam didn’t care about those larger things, he cared about his friend.
So he could destroy the Ring and this
was just theatrics for the reader's heartstrings.
> it was inches from possessing him at any given point
I don't think so
>I don't think so
>think
You seem new at it. Try to do it some more and things will make more sense.
Nice one. Everyone sidesteps the question and telling Sam was a good boy and would never hurt Frodo's feelings and it'd be better for the world to end, but yeah I guess I should make the story by myself since Tolkien fricked that part up.
Ok? So Sam instead of carrying Frodo and risking everything could just take the Ring from him and finish the job in 5 minutes.
No one is sidestepping that question. Friendship matters more to Sam than world domination. If Sam had been chosen to carry the ring, the ring would’ve been able to work that against him to get him to relinquish it.
But it's not world domination. Don't make it sound like the world goes from one ruler to the next. Sam chooses his friend having a misunderstanding instead of saving millions from death, torture and enslavement.
>work that against him to get him to relinquish it
It wouldn't work that quick. They were right there on Mt Doom. There was not some grand journey to take its toll on Sam. Literally 10 minute sprint.
This anon
disagrees with you. It could do frick all to Sam. Even if it could it'd need time, it wouldn't be instant changing of his character, especially when Sam already knows that the Ring influences everyone
Sam carrying Frodo is literally easier than carrying it himself.
>It could do frick all to Sam.
Wrong. Just because it can't tempt him with power doesn't mean it can't affect him in other ways, which by the way it literally does at Cirith Ungol.
Also as for dodging points, you continue to dodge the point that taking the ring would break Frodo's sanity. Even if Sam were a ringproof superhero Frodo is more precious to him than anything or anyone else.
>Sam carrying Frodo is literally easier than carrying it himself.
No it wouldn't. And Frodo fricked it up at the end anyway and it was thanks to Gollum that evil was defeated.
>would break Frodo's sanity
Maybe. But even if it did; so? He was weak and delirious at that point. Destroying the Ring would bring him back to himself anyway.
>more precious to him than anything or anyone else.
Then that is a stupid point of the plot, no different than Naruto and SASUKEEE, and should make everyone laugh at it.
But I doubt that was Tolkien's goal so he made that scene just for the heartfelt Sam monologue without thinking it through.
>No it wouldn't.
Yes it would. See? I can do it too. The ring right next to the Cracks is extremely powerful, but it can't weigh down anyone but the ringbearer. Additionally, Frodo is emaciated from his time in (and out) of Mordor, the movie scene hams up how heavy Frodo seems but in the book it's near effortless for Sam.
>Destroying the Ring would bring him back to himself anyway.
Pure supposition. Also seems unlikely since Frodo never fully recovers from his time as ringbearer. Sam simply would not take that risk at any rate.
>Then that is a stupid point of the plot
So you concede a point, at least. Read
, everything in LotR is intentional.
I don’t know what’s wrong with you or how to correct your faulty cognition.
The ring can’t tempt sam directly, the ring can frick with those Sam views as friends. But when it’s it’s just frodo, as the ringbearer, the ring has no sway over sam.
This shouldn’t be this difficult.
>The ring can’t tempt sam directly,
Depends on how close he is to it. It literally was able to show him visions and nearly take him over just from when he picked up Frodo. Likewise obviously Boromir was tempted despite almost never coming in contact with it, and Gollum could feel it and used it to chase down Frodo.
There's obviously a radius of influence at the very least.
>Sam takes the ring
>this completely breaks frodo
>the ring now uses frodo to manipulate Sam into giving it back so it can just run back to Sauron
The ring needed to be with someone it thought it could tempt. And even being with frodo, it fricked with everyone it could
But not Sam, right?
Why do I need to keep repeating that the ring did everything it did to Sam and it didn’t work?
You should make some friends troon
Taking the ring from Frodo would have shattered his psyche at that point, it was inches from possessing him at any given point after Cirith Ungol.
It tried to, it had nothing he wanted, therefore it stayed with frodo.
Because Sam's love for Frodo overpowered anything the ring might have tried to do to him
That's why he should care for Frodo by taking the ring from him, relieving him from that burden and threw it himself in the fire. No last minute corruption as well where everything hangs to chance with Gollum
Explain how he was going to get the ring from him
Sam fought off gollum so frodo can reach the edge
Sam then followed frodo to the edge but was something like 30ft-ish away
If at any point he had tried to take the ring from frodo between this scene and after he saved him from the tower, frodo would have freaked the frick out and considered it an attack
The ring was FRODO'S responsibility. HIS task. Not sam's
No matter how you try to argue it
Sam could NOT have destroyed the ring
the rings not powerful enough to manipulate both at full capacity, two is stronger than one
Tom Bombadil could put on the ring with no fricks given.
Tom Bombadil also gives no fricks about anything other than singing and being silly.
And also just hand it off to orcs or even just leave it whenever with no fricks given
>be most powerful dude around
>could solve all the issues instantly
>give absolutely no fricks whatsoever that the whole world could end
lmao
One theory is that he's essentially an avatar of Eru choosing to live in and enjoy the world he created. The reason he doesn't do anything to help the war of the Ring is because he wants his children to defeat evil (mostly) on their own
iirc in the books Gandalf says that if Tom had the ring he'd be the last to fall after the world was covered in darkness but he'd still fall.
Why is frodo basedfacing
Well you see little zoomie, it's this little thing called "speaking". It's what people used to communicate before texting was invented.
>The ring is literally a living thing
It's a piece of metal lol
Poor bait
Frodo doesn't let the Ring affect Sam
>He felt that he had from now on only two choices: to forbear the Ring though it would torment him; or to claim it, and challenge the Power that sat in its dark hold beyond the valley of shadows. Already the Ring tempted him, gnawing at his will and reason. Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Stong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dûr. And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be.
My boy said "Nah"
all he ever needed was a simple garden fit for a simple hobbit
:')
Why would they swing at this lightsaber instead of cutting his legs off? Why do these movies suck so hard?
What the frick he's wide open just hit him in the leg
This could have worked if the guy standing in front was swinging at his head at the same time and the guy who hit his lightsaber connected 2 seconds earlier. Than it would look like he was ducking to dodge the one guy taking his head off while blocking the other. Instead it just looks goofy as frick when he bends down and waits 2 seconds for the one guy to casually hit his lightsaber for no reason.
Han saving Luke by cutting open the tantan or whatever its called was effectively the same shit
I'm sure the games and comics and shit have all sorts of moments
I'll take mini Chewbaccas over gay hobbits any day.
Didn't book Sam completely tell the Ring to frick off when it tempted him?
Not directly, he was just so fundamentally different from Sauron that the ring's temptations seemed comical and unfitting.
>You will make the whole world a lovely garden
>I'll what?
>I'll what?
You mean
>u wot m8?
>Rudy saves the day whereas "The Guy" jobs, again
teest
This scene was gay
Have you read the books? It's full of homosexual undertones between the two
In the books they actually frick in this scene.
Stephen King drew inspiration from it.
>Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend