>NOOOO how dare you have a thing for younger women and manipulate all those women who had consensual relationships with you and eventually dump you? You're worse than Harvey Weinstein!!!1
>NOOOO how dare you have a thing for younger women and manipulate all those women who had consensual relationships with you and eventually dump you...
Which show did their character worse? Finn after Pen left or Bojack after they found out Weinstein liked the show?
AT
Bojack was always kind of scummy even if they started to really reach as to why that is
Finn they made a butt monkey for no reason
yeah this, Bojack was flanderized into a full sociopath but Finn was turned into the opposite of what his character was out of nowhere, from selfless hero to selfish butthole
Bojack's whole life was destroyed, he almost died and then went to prison. At the very end all he had left was his core circle of friends while only Finn's love life was destroyed.
>At the very end all he had left was his core circle of friends
He doesn't even get to keep that too, at best, all he has left is Mr Peanutbutter.
God why the frick didn’t they just have him kill himself. At least I could have provided some kind of moral in the end.
The show was supposed to be anti-suicide but because of how it ended there's no way Bojack wouldn't just kill himself.
I mean you can be anti-suicide while showing a character committing suicide. They do it all the time in PSA’s the whole point is to either see the signs or not get to that point.
What would the moral have been if he killed himself?
This what will happen, this is what you will become if you do the kind of messed up shit and be a garbage person to everyone you know and love. And honestly that’s pretty true to life. How many celebrities have ended up killing themselves after going through much less than Bojack?
he should've ended in a gay relationship with him. i would!
giwtwm
This.
i would've remembered more of this show if they decided to go off the rails and have them date in the last season. that's what PB's character development really needed, horsewiener
>off the rails
I genuinely thought it was going there. See
. That post is not mine but I wanted to use the same image.
It's a shame we never got a season with them living together and maybe doing gay things for inane reasons, such as showering together to save water because Diane imposed it on Mr. Peanubutter or getting married for a PR stunt that goes too far.
Pic semi-related, I wouldn't really expect this from Bojack but it's relevant to the topic.
I'd be glad he has someone, but PB barely cares about him.
Bojack by far. Despite what Finncels may say, he went down in history as a hero and lived a full life
Bojack suffered a worse fate by FAR but that was always the point of the show, so the answer is finn
How do you mean? Like how they are by the end of the show or the shift?
Bojack definitely has it way worse by the end. As mentioned, Finn has it pretty good by the end as he is does what he loves, humans come back, he is a big figure in the land and all that.
Shift wise probably AT but only because Bojack was always intended to be a shit and thst remained the focus. With Finn its like they yanked his protag status in favor of PB marceline dyke adventures or some other characters while making him a sad butt monkey for awhile
I hate the character assassination of Bojack.
>early Bojack is not a good person but relatable
>make him an irredeemable creep because one of many molesters in Hollywood happened to like the show
Hollow virtue signaling. There's so many people worse than Weinstein, like actual child molesters but they get protected. What if they get exposed and it turns out they like the show? Is he going to become a pedophile?
Why Bojack specifically? They could have done some shit that turtle producer guy and it would have had the same if not a better effect and it could have shown how celebs deal with the after math of a sex scandal they’re not directly involved in.
Because they said BoJack in specifically makes them feel better about themselves.
Weinstein or the gays behind the show?
Bojack
there was a noticeable drop in quality in the series
Did you not listen to the part of the interview where she revealed that Bojack waited 17 minutes to call 911 after he discovered that Sarah Lynn had overdosed, after he had gotten her back on drugs?
It’s been a few years, but I don’t recall the 17 minute delay in calling 911 revealed until this moment. Unless I’m mistaken and it was, that was amazing writing in hiding such a key, damning fact from the viewer; one which radically changes our perception of how the night unfolded.
yeah, because puritans want you to screech about a 17 year old that can legally consent in the state she lived instead of focus on actual immoral shit
>It’s been a few years, but I don’t recall the 17 minute delay in calling 911 revealed until this moment
I thought it was revealed at the beginning of Season 6 but I went to check and that flashback was just about Bojack lying to Sarah Lynn’s parents and the police about his involvement in her death.
The episode is called, "That's too much man." it's a reference to a lot of things but they specifically bring up that he waited 17 minutes. Which is too much, man.
Literally did not happen.
17 minutes were a retcon in the rehab season.
How is it a recon? Was it ever established bojack called right away?
Episode right after her death goes into how Bojack was honest about what happened and everyone's response was "this was bound to happen", which made him feel even more guilty. If the only argument about it being a retcon is that it technically wasn't said that he didn't do otherwise until later, then you don't understand what's ruining media these days.
It seemed pretty obvious to me that the story was building up to the fall out of Penny being the climactic storyline, untill cancellation was announced and they didn't feel they had the time to do that story and introduced/wrote in 17 Minutes as a substitute.
Compare how audiences debate over Penny to Bojack leaving Sarah Lynn to die. It's something no one is going to defend but it also doesn't require the prospect of Bojack violating anyone and therefore, maintains just about enough sympathy to keep the audience on side while still condeming him.
Honestly I thought it was a smart call but I find it weird that people treat it like it was always meant to happen.
yeah and the show focuses on sexual shit instead of what you just mentioned, which is orders of magnitude words
the fact that puritans writing the show wring their hands about shit that wasn't even a crime while ignoring what you just mentioned is the reason puritans are fricking moronic
>puritans writing the show
There was an entire episode about Diane getting an abortion and how said decision was a good thing. This show is by no means written by puritans, they just have moronicly misplaced priorities.
puritans would never punch a pregnant woman in the stomach out of wedlock? bold assumption
That's an entirely different situation you're talking about now. Also, have you ever heard of why it's called a "shotgun wedding" anon?
the point is, liberal idpol capitalists who wrote the show are deeply backwards when it comes to sexuality, and metoo was deeply backwards because it ignored shit like joe biden literally molesting a girl on c-span. fricking a 16 year old or 17 year old as questionable as it is, will still never be the same as making someone else take the blame for alcohol poisoning, or even manipulating said teens in to relationships that steal months or years out of their lives instead of one single sexual encounter
they might as well be puritans, they call everyone frollo then treat young women who are capable of making decisions like they're mentally a quasimodo. "it's bad when men want to control you, not like me. i'm different. you have to be told you're a child so you can understand how stupid you are"
I get the distinct impression that you're a "I'm not a pedophile, I'm an ephebophile" guy.
i get the impression that you infantilize women
>no arguments
>just name-calling
moron alert
I see what you mean. Personally, I'd just call 'em hypocrites, as 'puritan' implies they have hang ups about sex in a more traditional sort of way, when they really don't.
infantilizing women is itself a tradition. both liberals and conservatives are doing it simultaneously
literally the worst episode
Agreed. If Diane IS suppose to be based on Daria to some extent, then they seem to have forgotten the fact that the latter was not meant to be a good person.
>There was an entire episode about Diane getting an abortion and how said decision was a good thing
It's more nuanced than that. She spends that episode feeling conflicted about it *despite* how celebrated it is, and at the end the dolphin b***h decides against abortion
Gun control, on the other hand...
That's fair, however the writers try to make it very clear what way the audience should feel about it by the end. As exemplified by the news debate her and PC were watching.
>Gun control, on the other hand...
They just stole the history of what happened in California with the Black Panthers and said "what if women did this?"
It’s doubly funny because the NRA doubled down on trying to get more women armed like 3 months before the thing aired, so they were literally doing a takedown on people with the exact opposite opinions just to make liberals feel better about disarming themselves
Feminists supporting gun control ironically contributes to the issues they complain about
Oh you mean the hardest left turn I've ever seen a writer take!? That's like revealing when Luke blew up the Death Star, Ben was still alive and could have been saved!
That's a major retcon/reveal they just completely pulled out of their asses clearly just to make Bojack worse, and I'm not sure you should really accept it as what happens because it's such an obvious last-minute twist on something that happened several seasons ago
Forced retcon. Bojack is pretty scummy and sleeping with her is definitely questionable but he's not a fricking criminal or even a rapist
How the frick would she know that?
I still don't understand what that twist is supposed to mean. It makes him look more stupid and indecisive (so just regular Bojack) than evil or irredeemable. He wouldn't have called at all if that was the case.
Yeah those 17 minutes probably could have saved her but I don't understand how I'm supposed to see it as the viewer. If he had a change of heart and decided to do the right thing, even if it was too late isn't that still an Improvement relative to some of his decision making? Why even make it a twist? I could totally see the show having a scene where he's almost convinced him to wash his hands if it but his conscience reels him back in before he can commit to pretending he had nothing to do with it.
Or am I supposed to think he was deliberately waiting long enough to make sure she couldn't be revived or something? The characters almost seem to react as if that's the case.
Its just shit writing. Its clear the writers want you to think of it as some deliberate or careless act, but frankly its a pretty realistic depiction of how the average OD plays out.
It wasn't a twist, it was a retcon they were trying to pass as a twist. You are absolutely right, they would have totally used it as an opportunity to animate Bojack having another panic attack if they intended it this way the whole time.
You mean the details they made up just for the final season because what had been shown in the show up to that point really didnt justify what they wanted to do to Bojack?
Bojack was a scumbag who was aware he was stuck in a poisonous spiral. Stop treating him like a victim.
So what should he have done
Not be a scumbag?
It made me seethe that it had the group of male characters who literally said that they supported Bojack because of an innocent until proven guilty audience and the audience is supposed to believe they're evil.
Unironically this. I was enjoying this show a lot, sure there were things that rubbed off on me the wrong way, but they way it depicted loneliness, depression, ipocrisy. From season 4 it started going slowly downhill thanks to Hollyhoe, and then it had THIS bs. Didn't like it during first watch, but the ending made me forget that feeling, after a rewatch, I realized how preachy and infuriating this whole thing was. It really is a liberal show, in the worst way imaginable. Bojack was shitty, for other reasons, and the people around him weren't that less shittier than he was, some were even worse
How Mr.Pb was the only character that really was the purest among everyone there, and they still made him look like a bad person because "muh narcisism"
So much this. They made a clear U turn, pretty embarassing
>it's not an excuse to devolve into shitty destructive behavior
This is absolutely unrealistic knowing basic psychology. This is purely the writers moralistic asses holding only and only Bojack to an impossible standard because he's supposed to repent or some shit. With the whole world hating on you, with anyone believing in you or caring a little about you even from a far distance, no suppprt, every sane person would turn crazy, now imagine someone who's depressed. It's just torture porn for the sake of owning the Wensteins, or just middle aged withe men, of the world, there's no empathy, and no realistic lesson, just empty preaching
Mr. Peanutbutter was suddenly shat on for a whoel season for having multiple wives and having a new on that's as dumb as he is.
What the frick kind of fantasy world do you live in to think an unendingly selfish person, or ANYBODY could just do that or respond positively to everyone hating you?
>respond positively to everyone hating you.
NPD is meme teir on how often it gets shouted out but this is unironically what Narcissists want. They want to be able to step all over someone and for that person to say thank you after it all.
Damn, someone identifies with Bojack and took it personally. Maybe you are a bad person too, hmmm
Ad hominem, the final refuge of someone without anything of value to say.
writing your character to be relatable and then doing a 180 and saying it's bad to relate to him is a moronic way to write your series
God bless, anon
Mister Peanutbutter is a weird case because he doesn't feel like a real person. Like there are definitely people with attitudes similar to PB's in the real world, but his is so fantastical because he's literally just a dog-man that acts more like a dog than a man, so it feels like whiplash to suddenly treat his failings as incredibly serious.
>drinks vodka because he thought it was water
>instead of spitting it out the instant it touches his tongue, he downs the entire bottle
>blames Bojack and places all fault on him
not trying to "defend bojack" but this was literally the other guy's fault and his utter refusal of accepting that made everything worse for everybody, which i guess was intentional but still
I hated that fricking hypocrite. If he had gone through with the rehab, he would have been fine. But he was still binge drinking a whole year later and still blaming Bojack for his own piss weak willpower
I'm still confused why they thought someone would actually mistake vodka for water... have these writers ever touched alcohol?
>Be me living in the college dorm
>Bought a huge bottle of water and had it kept in the fridge
>Come to the room, open the fridge, and see what I thought was my nice clear bottle of 'water' after a day in the hot sun
>Take a big swig
>It was my roomate's hidden vodka
This happens pretty easily
>can't smell the alcohol
That's a swig though, in the show that moron downed the whole bottle without realizing it.
I read a story where Allie Brosh drank like a pint and a half of pesticide without realizing.
What is the appeal of this show?
I dropped in Season 2 when it becomes very obvious its a character drama where nobody progresses emotionally. Ironically enough it does a wonderful job portraying a completely fictitious world since people do just have good things happen to them considering real life Bojack is just Robert Downey Jr. Even from "le depression" angle, NHK did it better and the guy who wrote that was an actual Hiki.
>I dropped in Season 2 when it becomes very obvious its a character drama where nobody progresses emotionally.
That's the point of the show, except that everybody but Bojack does progress. The show becomes increasingly about Bojack's inability to do so until it destroys him.
Fair enough, thanks for the info
I also saw that tweet of boomers b***hing about this clip.
>everyone sucking it off
It's wild how many people think retcons are good writing. It's so obvious that the Bojack crew accidentally wrote a nuanced character who, despite being a scumbag, was still a sympathetic example of a person dealing with trauma. But "nooooo, he's a bad guy you're not supposed to like him!" so they start writing in scenes like this where out of nowhere fantastically evil things just happen around him so that there's no defending him.
Meanwhile Dianne is just as bad as Bojack pre-this scene and everyone says she's the hero of the show. Another victim of midwit Californians stumbling into success.
>Meanwhile Dianne is just as bad as Bojack pre-this scene
Okay, I'll bite. What did Diane do that was as bad as sabotaging Todd's rock opera, banging Todd's girlfriend, or the whole thing with Penny?
>sabotaging Todd's rock opera
Made BoJack's book about herself.
>banging Todd's girlfriend
Banged Mr. PB when he was married to Pickles.
>the whole thing with Penny?
What IS the thing with Penny? Even -she- thought nothing of it.
Pretending to be a local to seduce another tourist only to get pissed at him for being upset at being lied to was pretty scummy.
I can't tell if this scene was suppose to imply Bojack was never gonna change or that the news doesn't actually care about justice, but rather headlines that do more harm to those moving on from their bad actions than good.
Probably both.
It shows Bojack cares more about the good publicity he got from the first interview where he got asked softball questions than he cares about what happened to Sarah Lynn. He gets so smug about it and immediately tries to do a second interview just for another dopamine rush, but then gets asked actually tough questions that he can't answer.
Why do women ask for rights and then constantly act like helpless victims of everything with no agency
because society infantilizes them. they've been taught to be children by people who told them when they were becoming sexually active that they were children. so when an older man is with a young woman who has recently become able to consent legally, they're being told they're still children by stupid fricktards on the internet talking about how they should stunt themselves until their 25. yes that's a real thing, there are actual dumb shits out there that think the age of consent should be raised to 25.
Transitional period, women legally have protections and can seek more than they have been able to in the past but it will take a while for them to socially catch up and have equal power to men. As it is, men still often have power over women and abuse that power.
Not surprising that Cinemaphile would be the place to actually seethe at Bojack Horseman and the idea that he's a shitty person. Really must hurt being robbed of a million Patick Bateman scenes where he's walking around looking cool and not just being a piece of shit
We know he's a shitty person. Yet the show goes extra hard on him in a scene like this where he would've otherwise been moving to a better place because Weinstein said he liked the show.
What he had going was probably the best outcome for him at that time, yet he's brought down once again, not because of something (new) he did directly, but because some journo wanted a 'spicy' piece.
It was the consequence of what he did at the end of season 2 that he never otherwise saw consequences for until the last two seasons
His dogshit cyclical life as a result of his actions and the guilt he carries from letting his friend die (even if it may be a retcon) is already pretty bad by itself. But regardless of whether he deserves more or less, the only thing he can do is move on and try to be a better person.
Ending your show where's he probably at the lowest point in his life EVER kinda implies that the only way out for someone like that is, well, suicide. Like the dream sequence implies. Which I don't think was meant to be the intention of the show's creator, considering what he had to say about that episode after it was all over.
You didn't get the ending at all.
The reason why people move forward with their lives, despite hardship, is so that they can work towards being better people and find themselves in a better situation. If that's basically never going to happen with Bojack, as we've watched five seasons of him taking one step forward and two steps back 'til the very end, then yeah, suicide would probably be a fair option in that case.
Instead of wallowing in the self-pity of his lack of progress Bojack decides to still keep trying to be better than he was yesterday, that's the point.
Definitely I've talked to people who got out of the ending instead that if you're going through hardship you should just have a nice day despite the scary atheism dream. Just don't call a friend like that before you do it.
It seems like Bojack never gets better and only causes more damage so him dying would be the better ending for everyone.
Explain why or get the frick off your high horse.
That moral worked excellently in Season 1. Half a dozen seasons later and nothing's really changed for Bojack. Despite going through so much and learning a few things that only occasionally seep into his actions, he's arguably in a worse position in life than he was in episode 1. Except now he has less friends and less years left to live.
The ending being more or less where Bojack started is like them eating their cake and still having it. They want to kick their main character down a peg because he's suddenly a Harvey Weinstein stand-in, but also don't want to glorify suicide. It's such a non-answer ending.
You're still not getting it. Before whenever Bojack would try to be better his failure to would just cause him to spiral in self pity, be worse and hurt people. The hopeful ending for him is that he has learned to stop doing that. That even when he loses his friends, even when everyone hates him, even when he doesn't feel loved - it's not an excuse to devolve into shitty destructive behavior. And even if he's not "good enough" to help college students, he can still help people like his fellow inmates. Instead of thrashing all his progress like he usually does, there is hope that he will maintain the glimpses of the better character we saw in the final season.
That's awesome. That's great. Sarcasm aside I do appreciate the response. It'd be nice if we actually saw that, though. Ending a series that seems to pride itself on acting like it's going somewhere sucks. The last episode feels like a season finale in a never-ending sitcom. Some dynamics would change, but they could so easily pick back up Bojack for another season with the current ending, because it's open-ended and ambiguous in a lazy way rather than a clever one. If they had Bojack kill himself or really truly get better, they could never do that.
That's dogshit and Brockmire is the better show because of this.
I definitely think that the takeaway more often seems to be that Bojack is a piece of shit that should die and when someone slips into actual mental illness like he seems to have, he probably can't recover in that environment. It's not supported by actual evidence that putting mentally ill people in that environment does anything but make them even worse. That's just how the brain functions. To which you might say "good" but that's why people argue that the series should have ended with Bojack successfully killing himself as the only good outcome and extend that logic to other sick people (those viewers tend to ignore the other characters).
Peoples response to this post is very telling. If you've been a horrible person and still think the world owes you something then you will be a terrible person until you die. There is hope for Bojack because he has (seemingly) stopped being entitled to favorable views of himself when he has not earned it.
You don't understand fella he was already on the way to doing that, that was the fricking plot of season 4 that's what that was about. They kneecapped him by breaking his fricking back and putting him on pills at his most vulnerable state out of spite, he will never improve because his god literally actually hates hin and it has nothing to do with reality because animals don't talk here and todd can't have zany zombie clown dentist subplots here. Please understand this television show is wasted potential and it has nothing to do with yours or mine sociopolitical beliefs please anon.
Bojack did not deserve the place he was in, he should not be trusted around college students, he shouldn't be seen favorably by the public. Once his consequences caught up to him, if he truly wants to be a good person then he has to keep trying to be good with the acceptance of the consequences of his actions.
You
Do
Not
Understand
His god will not let him grow, everything yiu just said doesn't matter because HIS CREATOR OF HIS UNIVERSE DOESN'T LIKE HIM.
The point of Bojack Horseman was never that you were supposed to like him I don't know how you could be confused by the idea that the author is telling you he's was a bad person from season one.
His ending is hopeful despite everything. He has done too many horrible things in his life for a clean slate, but if he continues to try to treat people better he just might not die alone which is all he can ask for.
i don't know why you think that. the show explicitly says that people find Bojack lovable and relatable despite his flaws. it's recurring meta humour
>consequence meme
Americans are such unlikable cretins, I wish someone like this would face 'consequences' for their unbearable pseudo-morality, but I know they wont. For example, they're probably smart enough to not say things like this in front of someone in real life.
Think about how Bojack waited 17 minutes that could have saved Sarah Lyn's life because he was more concerned about saving his own ass than his dying surrogate daughter and ask yourself if he deserved anything more than what he got.
That was a homosexualass retcon, the show immediately presented him calling for help right away
It wasn't a retcon, we never saw the direct aftermath. It's not out of character at all for Bojack to try to make sure he could cover his own ass first, we see it when he gives a teenage girl alcohol poisoning.
>That was a homosexualass retcon
Wouldn't be the first
Bojack was in the wrong in Season 2 as well, he was a 50 year old hanging out with high schoolers he just met. Hr could've easily shut down Penny's advances instead of trying to frick her because her mom turned him down.
>still focusing on sex instead of pressuring someone else to take the fall for alcohol poisoning
you failed the test
He should've driven that boat somewhere else then frick her. That's what I'd do.
Because of the implication?
Think he's talking more about international waters and how anything goes
Retcon
you better like that Bojack raised Sarah Lynn from when she was 10 years old, waited until she was legal to then get her drunk and frick her, before making her relapse and kill herself, and if you dont think that's weird it's because you're a puritan liberal idpol capitalist. Trans people are the groomers btw
Bojack failing to improve after looking like he would is the entire show, you should watch it
>shifting goalposts
most to the time people are talking about penny, not sarah lynn, who had cocaine literally in the walls of her house. he didn't make her relapse.
>waited until she was legal
you mean the time she went to his house to frick him while he was drunk too?
>trans
the overwhelming majority of pedos are hetero. the catholic church is still dealing with pedo priests every day. it's literally a constant thing.
https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/illinois-attorney-general-clergy-sex-abuse-report/
>the catholic church is still dealing with pedo priests every day.
Why do people bring this point up and then not realize these same priests are repressed homos molesting little boys?
hold up. so what you're saying is that conservative institutions force people to internalize their sexuality, then they cover up the scandals it causes? do you mean that they'd have to admit that humans, especially mean, cannot be "chaste" because sexual feelings are part of self actualization which means priests should marry other adults?
interdasting.
most of the pedophile priests are gay, how could they get married?
by marrying other men. are you fricking moronic?
why would that bother you? christian religion is based on a god statutory raping a 14 year old mary
also, why would the pedophile priests not stop raping kids, if they were gay non-pedophiles they could frick men on the down low
No, what I am saying is that this point implies gay dudes prey on little boys disproportional to their small population, regardless of whether they're pride prancing drag queens or "one of the good ones".
okay so you have provided no evidence so here's the first thing i saw when i searched for information.
i don't think you have a source about disproportions
https://www.zeroabuseproject.org/victim-assistance/jwrc/keep-kids-safe/sexuality-of-offenders/
so its bisexuals that are raping kids
KEK you still don't have a source for your previous claims
P.S. girls were also abused by catholic priests, it's not just boys
Pedos are sexually attracted to whatever child is available. That doesn't make them bisexual, that makes them pragmatic rapists. At the end of the day, they will happily occupy whatever community turns a blind eye.
Why are gays much more likely to be molested as children?
Because they have shit relationships with their dads probably. Then along comes mom's new boyfriend who is so nice and understanding etc. Essentially they are already vulnerable. Just like autistic kids or disabled people in general. There's a reason the frickers are called predators, anon. They go for sick ones, because it's easier for them.
True, people with poor relationships with their fathers tend to be homosexual/trans/pretty much everything else bad, are quite vulnerable.
If you abandon your kid to pedophiles to own the libs you're going to hell, anon.
Which pedophiles am I abandoning them to?
>leftoid using a religion he hates to try and shame the religious person
Nothing to see here
If that were entirely true, then the idea of having one gender be exclusive to a perpetrators crimes would be unheard of.
leftard take, kys
>humans, especially men, cannot be "chaste" because sexual feelings are part of self actualization
stop being acephobic, chud
>acephobic
kek let me know how the ace men fair with their prostate as they get older. keep telling yourself blue balls isn't real, prostatitis isn't real, orchitis isn't real, etc
Ace dudes probably beat off occasionally, like how I occasionally have a real good BM that cleans me right out. Satisfying, but not exactly arousing beyond what is happening mechanically. They're still probably at risk of prostate cancer though.
%3D%3D
Because it is proven time and time again when men are forced to abstain from fricking women, they will take their sexual frustrations out on the next person they can find.
Jail, all boy schools, Taliban, devout priest, etc all vastly different yet one thing in common. They isolate genders and then act surprised when males use other males for sexual relief.
>still pushing the priests are paedophiles bullshit
You are more likely to get molested by your teacher or a homosexual than the priest. It's israelites pushing that particular narrative.
>sarah lynn
speaking of retcons
come to think of it, yeah, we should talk about how contrived a situation it was to have a kid drink alcohol
-tasting alcohol doesn't automatically make you addicted. a cousin of mine let me taste beer just so they could take the picture of my funny face not liking it. i have never been a drinker
-tasting alcohol as a kid isn't going to make you become a heroin addict.
you cannot magically ruin a kids life by letting them taste something they would likely spit out in real life
hey moron, if i'm a man and i have sex with 70 adult women, but also 5 adult dudes, what do you call it? the majority of my sex partners are women so what do you call it?
bisexual
if you fricked 70 adult women and molested one boy I'd still call you that
okay so no term was redefined. got it. most pedos are hetero
Why would men who rape boys (more likely to be molested) be hetero?
Because, unlike Kevin Spacy believes, pedophilia isn't a sexuality. If your hypothetical dude also fricks adult men then yeah, not hetero, but going after kids is a paraphilia. It's a separate illness. Whereas homosexuality is a mental disorder that largely allows for an adult to function in society.
>homosexuality is a mental disorder
false. homosexuality does not affect cognition or the ability to survive. even if the last dudes left on earth were gay, they could still get it up more effectively than a straight man with ED
It doesn't effect quality of life, but you can safely say that whatever part of the brain determines sexuality is different in homosexuals. I am willing to bet if you looked at a homosexual and a pedos brain you would have two very different structures.
Even if that were the case, what difference would that make?
>you cannot magically ruin a kids life by letting them taste something they would likely spit out in real life
It is one of those social taboo things where something is completely acceptable until it leads to problems. I once took a chug of gin because I thought it was water. My family just laughed at the situation. But if I had swallowed it and then proceed to try and drink the rest, they would have certainly been upset at the guy whose glass it was.
I’m certain that scene wasn’t suppose to be the origin of Sarah Lynn’s drinking, but more about how Bojack through another coworker under the bus just for his own self interests
I know plenty of kids who are addicted to energy drinks, and those taste like shit. An underaged kid getting the opportunity to binge drink and get wasted at a party or series of parties just because they like the feeling of getting drunk and they think drinking grown up drinks makes them look cool and edgy is completely plausible and happens all the time, even if the stuff they're drinking doesn’t taste good. That’s how booze works for everybody.
/co/mbrl strikes again
This thread is a bunch bluehaired leftards shitting the site up with their redxit-tier takes.
Almost everybody who comes into his orbit is worse off for it
>source: trust me bro
He's probably citing the Dailey and Dhejne studies. The former is based on a flawed premise and the latter had the author herself claim the results were being misinterpreted
But nobody ever looks up the papers for themselves, they just see the numbers that confirm their biases and commit it to memory as ammo
The show is about the writers hating Bojack-like men. Most viewers took the portrayal of Hollywood and the people Bojack is surrounded by as mockery of the scene and the buttholes its populated by, but it was just the writers projecting themselves as loveable rascals trying to deal with Bojack-like men. The show goes to shit once they realized that went over everyone's heads, so they make Bojack completely irredeemable.
For me it was when Trump won and the shortener put out some statement about how they were gonna ease off the jokes about Hollywood celebrities and millionaires because "they're the real victims"
These people cannot view things outside of an affluent neoliberal lens and it always ends up kneecapping their work
How could they? Leftards are simply not capable of not demonizing anything that doesn't fall into lockstep with their ideology.
>the shortener put out some statement about how they were gonna ease off the jokes about Hollywood celebrities and millionaires because "they're the real victims"
That sounds sarcastic.
You morons don't remember that Weinstein saved us from the show turning into another episode of "orange man bad". At least with this the theme stayed true to it's premise about the rot, corruption, hypocrisy and debauchery of Hollywood and all the people that work in the industry.
Does the Chinchilla character go take a shower buy rolling around in a dust bath? I don't give a frenchman's frick about the drama the writers try to drum up around the characters but I do like the little stuff that world build and the reminders they they are animal-people sometimes.
>woke moron defending blatant retconning to push Bojack into irredeemable territory because politics
have a nice day, you aids ridden homosexual.
this homie posting a bullshit study that redefines the term homosexual to serve their needs.
NORMAL WORDS
I still don't get all the shit over the 17 year old moron deer considering BoJack's parents come from the generations that sent 16 year olds overseas to die
Those two things are not correlated in any fricking way.
They absolutely are.
Why is okay to treat 16 year old males like men who are ready to experience the harsh realities of the world while 17 year old females are treated like little baby girls who need protection from everything in the world?
My 17 year old great grandfather married a 15 year old girl and was expected to take care of an entire farmland by himself.
Frick babyists and frick your irresponsibility over your own actions.
Yeah dude, a 17 year old marrying a 15 year old is exactly the same as a 50 year old burn out fricking a 16 year old.
50/2 = 25, 25+7 = 32, 32 > 16
The system works.
Arbitrary and dumb reddit rule.
I was more irritated that she was hitting on him but when he sees her a season or 2 later she acts traumatized. Like what the hell?
What's happening in this thread?
TLDR skip to 5)
1) people focus on almost sex with a 17 year old in a state where it's legal way more than they should because the episode features the protagonist, not good guy, tell someone else to take the fall for alcohol poisoning, which is worse and way more immoral than almost sex with a 17 year old when they were in to it but protagonist/not good guy had been drinking
2) writers wanted to scapegoat the protagonist/not good guy and made him irredeemable in hamfisted ways several times
3) bigots chimed in about homosexuality being pedo, which is false on a medical level. i'm actually surprised we haven't gotten any morons that claim 17 year olds is pedo. apparently those people think statutes count as a diagnosis
4) people who think sex with young women is always ephebophilia infantilize women and are a result of society teaching women that they will always be children who are incapable of taking accountability
5) these bojack threads always get traction because of salaciousness and people incapable of critical thinking
I see, thanks for the recap anon
homie he was in his 50s and she was in high school, and his former friend's daughter.
Still, the second Braxby interview was absolutely a setup/hit piece to demonize him having consensual sex with girls that just didn't happen to be celebrities like him.
>to demonize him having consensual sex with girls that just didn't happen to be celebrities like him
I'm so glad the "power dynamic" discourse of the MeToo era has largely died out. Oh yeah anyone who has any kind of power over their sexual partner, real or hypothetical, is a rapist. Literally every guy is a rapist unless he's fricking Gina Carano or Julia Vins or whatever.
>these other factors matter more than ACTUAL CONSENT
moron logic
>25
fricking have a nice day. not only do you deny human nature but you also deny evolution while you advocate for people literally mentally stunt their development and growth by not having sexual relationships or even encounters.
you're fricking moronic because you deny the fact that the brain is constantly changing and developing, there is no set number where the brain crystallizes, and by the way if you want your brain to crystallize as a neurotic virgin, you're fricking mentally ill
>insipid NPC response
>people who think sex with young women is always ephebophilia infantilize women and are a result of society teaching women that they will always be children who are incapable of taking accountability
Hot take but I think a grown 50 year old man should be assumed to be more mature and turn down a emotional underdeveloped impressionable woman under 25 sexual advances who hasn't even gone to college yet. Like he wasn't going to screw her because he was attracted to her, he just felt bitter from being turned down by her mother so he was going use her as a cheep replacement, something she had no understanding of because she's a stupid barely adult teenager. That inherently makes him and men like him scum bags.
25 is a very specifici number anon. What objective data do you have to show that a magical switch is flipped in a woman's brain at 25 that somehow makes them a mature responsible human being as opposed to the considerably younger brain a 24 and 9/10ths year old?
Because the human brain doesn't stop developing into its full maturity until you reach 25-26, perhaps?
Well is it 25 or 26? Where is your data to say people under that age can't make any decisions? Are you fighting to have the voting age pushed back? Are you fighting to make sure no one under the age of 26 are allowed to make decisions for themselves?
>nothing but leftard lies about homosexuals not being paedophiles
Correct.
Half the people blame bojack himself for his actions while the other half blame the writers because its not a well written character drama but a shitty comedy without themes so dog-piling on one character by making him increasingly an butthole isn't for actual story purposes
normal words, but a horse guy
never watched the show (i tried) but in my head the dog and horse get together and live happily ever after
Can we all agree that Diane looked better fatter
It's so funny how many Twitter landwhales look at that and are like
>see its good that my daily wienertail of SSRIs made me gain 80lbs in 3 months! That's what REAL health looks like!
gay
I had honestly memoryholed pretty much everything about this show past season 2, thanks for reminding me OP
Younger women are less experienced and more vulnerable to manipulation which is abused by older men.
Older men won't date women in their age range cause those women already know what's up and see through their bullshit.
What else can you generalize to complete idiocy?
So your take is men are evil and women shouldn't date them?
Majority of violent criminals, dictators and general pieces of shit who ruin everything for everyone in the world were men.
And the majority of women that were in charge started wars of extermination.
The people who stop those kinds of people are also mostly men, what's your point?
You say that like they didn't have women in their lives cheering them on. The most successful male rapists had a chick who helped out. You know they were into that shit.
>The most successful male rapists had a chick who helped out.
Name five
tom hanks, bill clinton, epstien, trump,weird al...
No but you shouldn't be trying to frick your friend's high school daughter, especially when you're in your 50s
But itd be okay if you were closer in age?
Look I think anybody should date anybody once your older than like 21 but that's just weird. the relationships are too close.
Like, if I had a daughter, it would be weird if my best friend started dating her.
Think about it, would it be weird if your best friend started dating your mother?
Honestly I dated a friends sister once and that was awkward...
He wasn't, she threw herself at him.
And he refused her until he couldn't. If anything, SHE was taking advantage of his mental state.
>manipulation
a sexual encounter isn't manipulation. gaslighting a young woman in to a relationship just to have sex, especially if it lasts months or years, is what's actually traumatic. bojack fricking a 17 year old will always be less traumatic than a sociopath just telling her everything she wants to hear
who manipulated, not simply had sex with people. stop being a fricking moron
im sure a couple of hem weren concensual just because bojack is lik hat
>write a sympathetic portrait of someone struggling with depression and addiction
>give them abusive upbringing
>everyone latches onto the character, agrees that while it doesn't justify his misdeeds they still feel many complex feelings towards him
>flip shit and torpedo the writing because you're afraid of people having nuanced takes on your work rather than "men bad"
>can't even let the main character die because that would generate too much sympathy for him
Many such cases. If the writers just stayed off Twitter before it was done Bojack would be a masterpiece.
It drove me nuts that the show just forgets about things like Bojack goading the male child star back into starting a reboot and flaking on him and derailing production, TWICE.
But no, muh womens, and forget about the one with PTSD from the choking event, focus on the self-destructive junkie and the 17 year old that he didn't even frick.
They had all the good reasons in the world to get his ass sued into oblivion and they picked a joke reason that wasn't funny.
I hope things worked out for the child star. Who knows maybe with bojack being expunged the reboot might work
And then Dianne has her own Escape From LA episode where she runs away from her problems and sleeps with a guy under false pretenses and I assumed the whole point was to illustrate that she's very much cut from the same kind of toxic cloth as Bojack, in that she's an addict and a user of people who has an unwarranted opinion of herself.
But then nah she's actually meant to be objectively good and in the right the whole time and does nothing worthy of any criticism.
>Bojack lost everything!
yeah remember how happy he was back then good times
>
>the image that shaddered thousands of shitters
It's hilarious how Bojack "fans" are seething to this day over this.
This scene right here made the entire last part of the last season so aggrivating for me. The show was going out of its way to make Bojack's past come back to attack him in the most insane, nonsensical fashion where two reporters just dig up all his dirt and expose him while blatantly misrepresenting him. Bojack was already a shitty dude, but this second interview had her saying ridiculous shit she knew nothing about and made already bad shit sound worse (him banging Sarah Lynn is definitely weird, but she was 30 when they did).
This wouldn't be so bad if the entire fricking show wasn't preaching the message "You can be a completely horrible person because you were raised poorly or just because you're kind of a loser, but you can change if you try to grow one day at a time." The show reveals, at the last possible second, that it thinks anyone who thinks like this is a naive little b***h idiot and that anyone who's ever done anything bad should be dragged through the social media grinder because a news day is slow until the masses are satisfied. Then you can just start over and be a jerk again, who cares, right? Disappointing.
>where two reporters just dig up all his dirt and expose him while blatantly misrepresenting him
Too realistic
It's not sympathetic to the journos, they're not portrayed as incredible heroes, the whole setup for this is that Bojack's back on top and this story could cut him down, nobody did anything out of a great moral conviction, they did it for a headline.
This is what makes the finale so horrendous, you all this nonsense is gonna drive him to his literal death and the subsequent Judgement Day, and then, no, he gets saved at the last moment because, suicide is Le Bad? Such a confusing ending
It's supposed to be. A grand, thematically appropriate tragic death would have just fed into Bojack's ego in a narrative sense, that he really was some tale for the ages. The thing he gained in the finale was his ability to finally move past his self-importance. The truth of everything he's done is out in the open, and he's accepted it and is facing his punishment. Most of his friends he'll never see again, but at the party they all forgive him, and give him the peace of mind that it's okay to move on.
For the rest of his life, he can just live and be free of the expectations and anxious needs that have weighed him down since he was a boy.
It's a fresh start, and that's kind of great. But he's lost almost everything he had to get there, and that kind of sucks. And there's no meaning in it all except what Bojack was able to take from it. That's life.
A shining example of humans eating their own ilk mercilessly for no gain. I hope you never make mistakes powerful enough you truly believe you can't walk back from, that's not a life worth living and it's entirely ignorant of the human condition at its core.
Climb down from your fricking cross already, Jesus....
>eating their own ilk
How is putting someone in jail equivalent to eating them?
>for no gain
Safety from criminals is a pretty good gain.
>people who do shitty things can't be held to account for thier shitty actions because they're sad about being a shitty person all the time and that means theyre already punished so everyone should just let them keep being a shitty person
You are the exact kind of person the show is calling out. You get caught with your hands in the cookie jar and have the gall to say it's your mother's fault you got caught. Actions, no matter how small or big or old or new or justified or whatever HAVE CONSEQUENCES. Don't get mad when those consequences end up being too much for you, you've no right to that at all.
Worried about those all those LiveJournals from way back, eh anon?
>him banging Sarah Lynn is definitely weird, but she was 30 when they did
Age is irrelevant when you frick someone you've known since they were ten and you were 20something, especially so when you have an established working relationship. It's a step away from fricking your own daughter
>Age is irrelevant when you frick someone you've known since they were ten and you were 20something, especially so when you have an established working relationship. It's a step away from fricking your own daughter
yeah it'd be a totally different thing if they were strangers.
Why?
It's modern wife husbandry. It's the 40 year old gentleman marrying the 20 year old daughter of a family friend after they died after being a large influence in her upbringing literally her entire life. It's a question of power dynamics, the girl's basicly put in a position where she will never say no because her trusted father figure says it's ok.
Didn’t Grover Cleveland do this?
yes
While president, his first Lady before her was his dyke sister
Normal words. But a horse guy!
The problem with Bojack was his complete lack of self esteem. Everytime he fricked up he constantly self pitied and let people walk all over him. He was a punching bag. After a certain time pint, he would have genuinely been better off if he was a spiteful butthole who doubled down and stopped feeling sorry for himself. Basically every time he fricked up he never got the last word, and instead he got shamed. Why? Cause he craved validation and acceptance from other people. He would have been better off of every time he was in a situation where he was being shamed after he fricked up, he doubled down. How much better would Bojacks life have been if he did this?
He should have listened to the pink cat lady and fricked her instead of human women
She is a criminally underrated waifu, that's for fricking sure
She certainly could have used a strapping human lad pulling her away from the toxic Hollywood swamp and knock her up with a couple of kittens.
>Spends season 4 trying to humanise Bojack given that the first 3 seasons have basically given him zero redeeming qualities
>Ends up being the best season of the show partly due to that fact alone
>One guy from Hollywood he doesn't like says he enjoyed a boring filler episode from the previous season
>Freaks out and decides to ruin the rest of show because of it
It's hardly a stretch to start self-reflecting when actual sexual predators give you a thumbs up. Or would you feel perfectly fine getting praise from Hitler or Jack the Ripper?
This is like if Walt Disney learned that Hitler enjoyed Snow White and so he was like
>QUICK, TORPEDO THE ANIMATION DIVISION BEFORE WE CREATE ANOTHER HITLER!
Maybe if we convince these Hollywood phonies that bad men also enjoy being alive and breathing air the problem of all this shitty egotistical terminally online idpol content will solve itself.
This, was literally about to type this. People have an issue with conceptualizing buttholes as people because they need to distance themselves from both them and their actions as a means to cope and say “well I would never do this” without realizing that monsters aren’t born.
So bad men shouldn't ever be called out as bad men and should always be allowed to forever be bad men, even when thier bad actions are activley harming others?Is that the takeaway here?
When was this mentioned? All he did was point out that finding out someone bad like’s something shouldn’t be a reason to completely abandon/frick over that thing.
And how exactly was Bojack abandoned? Show went on for another two seasons or so past that point.
Don’t harp on individual words for the sake of your argument, it’s an example and there were two, but considering you used that shitty strawman it’s obvious that this is all you have.
>muh strawman
Ah Cinemaphilemblr, never change
, TORPEDO THE ANIMATION DIVISION BEFORE WE CREATE ANOTHER HITLER!
There's gonna be 6 million Hitlers with the new adaptation's state.
It's funny because something full of neolib identity politics is unironically much more likely to radicalize someone than a movie with more moderate political elements
No one's watching Top Gun Maverick or Super Mario Bros and coming out like "man we really need to get the israelites who made this".
>some random nonce watches my show therefore I need to change my MC's entire character to drive him away
You morons do realise that shitty people enjoy stuff too, right? Whether you want them to or not some serial killer is going to say they liked a cartoon, does that mean the people that make the cartoon have to reconsider their entire angle for this one person?
It's fricking insanity. I genuinely thought it was Cinemaphile larping again until I found that article.
That random nonce was the most powerful man in the industry at the time as was a known sexual deviant for years. It's not about "creating the next Weinstein", it's about reflecting on the fact the silly talking animal cartoon you made might be telling the Weinstiens of the world that thier fricked up behavior is okay because daddy didn't love them enough. It's providing a rescue line of delusion to them that doesn't solve the problem at all, it just let's it continue to happen
Again moron, it was one person that the show wasn't even catering towards. My point isn't that it's moronic that he thinks it will make "the next weinstein", I never even said that. I'm just laughing at Waksberg instinctively deciding to change his entire show on a whim because some homosexual nonce from Hollywood said he liked one episode from a season that had already been out for a year when he was doing production on season 4.
Why are you assuming he made changes out of ego and not genuine concern for how his actions could be skewering the zeitgeist towards something no one wants? He didn't think he was some mad scientist mastermind crafting the next cultural monster, where the frickity frick did you even come to that conclusion?
>>"where the frickity frick"
le epic bait dude, bet you're gonna get mega updoots for this one
Not that anon, but if the question was if changing the message of your art too avoid people using it to excuse their terrible actions, I got two answers:
Cynical one is the the Bible and church already do that. They have a system set up for any sinner to beg for forgiveness when they do bad.
Bojack Creator wasn't writing the Bible, most people see him as a shit person without worrying that real people will feel vindicated by any thing he wrote.
2) is the story you're writing about your own life and opinions? Did he not have the same problems Bojack had in some fashion or another? Did he make these changes because he saw how easily his life mirroring Weinstein?
Art is wish fulfillment in a way and when he found out that his story was too close to someone he hated, he saw the enemy within himself and had to write that out of him.
Not taking any hard stance on this point, just thinking outloud.
Because it's a fricking cartoon about a talking horse targeted at spergs and stoners lmao, how can you be this dense to not get that people aren't going to become Harvey Weinstein by watching a cartoon
Satan, its narcissistic as frick if you think your cartoon has enough reach or impact to think it will genuinely affect people’s behavior like that. A rapist will not be swayed by a fricking cartoon.
And who the frick is saying that is the case here?
The moron I replied to and the showrunner?
I would rape that b***h that ruined all witcher adaptations
See it completely goes over your head because you continue to insist that
1. A Netflix cartoon is powerful enough to convince an otherwise upstanding and well-adjusted individual to become a serial rapist
and
2. A Netflix cartoon is powerful enough to stop a rapist from raping, that they'll remember that the horse show said raping is bad and will smack their heads and go "oh right, I shouldn't rape this woman!"
It's egotism that puts the message over creating anything meaningful. You just want VeggieTales with swearing, shows where crystal clear black and white morals are trotted out so you can rest easy that you're a good boy. The problem with Bojack gradually becoming that sort of show is that it initially found success as being a pretty complex look at mental illness and Hollywood scummery so losing that nuance means it loses a big chunk of its identity.
>Veggietales with swearing
NTA but that's a pretty good way to describe the entirety of the first season, it was just dull vapid family guy plots for the first 8 episodes. If that had continued nobody would have kept watching it
Anon the only person making this argument in this thread is you. No one once said that watching a Netflix cartoon will make you a rapist. Not fricking on e.
The actual arguement being made by the showrunner and anons in this thread is that everyone, EVERYONE has a responsibility to account to the consequences of what one does, intentional or otherwise. The showrunner did not think his talking horse would make more rapists in the future, he thought he might have been unwittingly giving a mental pathway for current scumbags out there to excuse thier behavior. So he shifted the message slightly, trying to show people that there is no excuse for shitty behavior. You having a rough childhood or a bad breakup or whatever does not give you leeway to binge drink or crash your car or drag a close friend down in the.abyss with you. Just stop doing shitty things and life will go from there. Everything starts and ends with you, the person reading this sentence right now. You control how your life happens
But if you just want to dismiss the show as an ego trip by some out of touch Hollywood boob that don't know shit, by all means
imagine being this much of a whiny overcorrecting redditor over horseguy. we're literally just saying it's fricking stupid to take one person as an archetype for everyone who views your work but you won't accept that. You seem to think that every single person who watches this show fits an archetype that can be easily brainwashed into whatever the show wants them to think, and if not then I don't understand why you keep insisting on defending this point, because I feel like even you know it's fricking moronic. Take a minute to actually read the original post, come to terms with it and move on, anon.
Don't spam discord memes at me just because you're too moronic to understand that more than one demographic can view a cartoon.
Nothing he said was in anyway difficult to understand, I’ve been skimming through this comment chain and it’s still makes sense. Acting obtuse isn’t going to salvage your argument.
>Anon the only person making this argument in this thread is you
>replies to two different anons
Imagine basing your moral compass off of a Netflix show about a horse that goes to therapy. It feels almost too Reddit for Reddit.
As opposed to a compass steered by an ancient israeli zombie hippie?
You're not beating the reddit allegations
Your msking it sound pretty cool
Countless psychos have interpreted Catcher in the Rye to be encouragement to go kill evil people to protect the innocent. That doesn't make Catcher in the Rye or J.D. Salinger responsible for their actions. I understand you might find this hard to comprehend, but people interpret things differently, and you can't control how someone will interpret something. Look at this thread and the different interpretations of the events in Bojack. Look at threads talking about Watchmen. Everyone views the world differently and you can't control that.
The delusion that an author can control the interpretation of their work by the audience is just that. Changing a story just to try and scare off an unwanted segment of the audience, only causes the rest of the audience to be unhappy at the arbitrary changes.
>you know who else drank water and ate food? HITLER!
moron logic.
Ego and insecurity claim another one. Imagine being the guy behind horse show and thinking your Netflix cartoon is powerful enough to give rise to the next Harvey Weinstein. In any other industry this level of delusion would be treated as certifiable insanity.
>Guy I don't like drinks water, better dump all the water out on the ground
People who thin like this don't understand the point of A Clockwork Orange.
Beethoven's music was used by Nazis. He didn't have a way to tell them to not use his music. Alex didn't want Beethoven's music to be associated with pain and suffering because the music gave him peace.
If you create art, you are not responsible for how people see it.
Anon the clockwork orange is a shit book it just ends with a boys will be boys ending
This situation reminds me of this video I saw a while ago.
https://twitter.com/MalteserRefs/status/1691160977453043713
I genuinely do not think its okay to destroy a work and its characters just because you dont care enough anymore. Thats moronic
>She's only 21 years old, you sick FRICK!!!!
She didn't say that.
I love horse guy
>itt a bunch of idiots scream at each other because of a silly horse cartoon talking about feelings
This website was the first domino to fall on our way to extinction, I swear
>ITT - moron gets BTFOed and blames everyone else for it
>NOOOO how dare you have a thing for younger women and manipulate all those women who had consensual relationships with you and eventually dump you? You're worse than Harvey Weinstein!!!1
For real? Source?
No ways....bojack...
Would BoJack have actually gotten shunned by AA for doing what he did? Euphoria has a drug addict character that hit his fricking wife and he became a sponsor for other addicts.
It's easier to digest this when you realize Bojack's supposed to be an Andy Dick type of hollywood celebrity and that he really does deserve his comeuppance
>expecting zoomers to know anything about Andy Dick
> The fact that OP can't see an issue with an adult man in his 50s almost fricking his ex-wife's daughter who was barely 18 at the time. Touch grass OP you disgusting frick.
> Encouraged his former child actor friend to go on a hard drug bender which led to her OD. He pussed out and refused to call paramedics for almost 20 minutes which makes him culpable for her death.
I really don't know what to tell you if you can't see the glaring issues with Bojack's moral compass. I do not feel any sympathy for him despite his shitty upbringing.
I mean, you have about the IQ of your pic related so its a good choice by you.
Yes, be an intellectual anon and frick underaged girls and force them to OD on drugs so you won't get in trouble with the cops. You're so much better than the rest of us. What an exemplar.
>18
>underage
>force someone to OD to cover up having sex with them
I dont really get why you need to make stuff up. Like, Bojack canonically did plenty of shitty things, why make shit up?
bojack didn't force any children to OD, dumbass
if the question is about penny, she hadn't had anything the entire night, and bojack was the one that had be drinking
it's about Penny's friend, whom he gave hard liquor to and gleefully ignored her giving herself alcohol poisoning.
If you don't see the issue with that one then please don't procreate.
he literally explained how to stay hydrated and you should drink water. he didn't force them to OD, the shitty thing he did was force someone else to take the blame
The reality is that Bojack is a nuanced character that, while shitty, only did a few genuinely shitty things throughout the show, and almost none of them are the things he actually "paid" for at the end. Every woman he slept with did so willingly, and calling him out for sleeping with them is the same as calling women unable to make decisions. They had to change details of earlier seasons in the final season just to make Bojack look like more a scumbag and lose more, while completely ignoring anything shitty any other character did so that every other character except MR PB for some reason could get handed a happy ending. The last season is a very clear example of the showrunners changing gears in the worst way, and its a shame. This thread makes it pretty clear why though. Its sad how easy it is to make a character and irredeemable monster in the eyes of young idiots.
The more I hear about it, the happier I am for skipping the last season of Bojack Horseman.
They almost had it, the episode where bojack almost dies wouldve been a great finale. Have him die then have the funeral and all the characters get their closure there.
Daily reminder that the gayotass "17 minute" retcon was because the creator wanted to stick it to harvey weinstein because weinstein told him that he liked the underwater episode back in 2016.
If the metoo bullshit never happened, bojack would've got a better ending.
I know you are shitposting, but in case you aren't:
the point is the power disparity. This isn't illegal, but some people think it's immoral.
This situation ruining his career is completely realistic, just look at the current situation around the band Rammstein.
so is this like, "frick me or i'll fire you" power, or "i'm successful and that's persuading" power?
so penny acted the exact same way as adult women would when encountering a celebrity. got it.
I checked out after the abortion episode, it sucked
>God clearly hates me and keeps making bad things happen to me and won't let me grow as a person so there's no point in actually trying to better myself
Not even gonna bother with a (you).
In the cartoon you idiot why don't you read please just read and understand its a tv show where a specific god ruined a specific universe frick dude
And another thing this is why tv is so shitty now, villains protagonists and anti heroes can't just do shitty things for the sake of a story, there has to be karmic justice or morons immediately assume the audience and writers must be the same type of villain instead of just I dunno a fricking artist and their fans appreciating art! Goddamn just let fiction breathe you hyperpolitical autists.
Having sex with a girl that you knew since she was 10 and viewed as a daughter is gross. The point wasn't about the legality of the situation.
>still protecting onto an alcoholic narrasistic cartoon horse
Look man, if you legitimately cannot understand why Bojack's behavior is absolutely something to be demonized and avoided (and that actually wanting, nay, craving to frick children is AT BEST unusual) then I honestly don't know what more can be said. You're either a child yourself, an idiot or a psychopath. I'm legitimately recommending you seek some form of psychological support, it really seems like you need it.
It's OK to ask for help
So this is just an endless loop then with neither of us reading each other's statements. Fascinating I guess.
Well at least one of you admit it
You're a twat and I know you know what i'm saying. Actually frick you.
You're right, I do know what you're saying. You don't get it. The point is soaring over your head like a goddam 747. The point of Bojack is to prop up an exaggerated version of a horrible, HORRIBLE person and proclaim "See this? DON'T BE LIKE THIS". It's a road map to how NOT to live like a piece of shit, to act like a piece of shit, to feel like a piece of shit. That is what Bojack is, an effigy we light on fire in ritual to cleanse ourselves of sin. A sacrifice of failure so that we may avoid a similar fate.
Is it fair to rip out his heart so the sun wont explode? No, but then again, he's a fricking cartoon horse
There's plenty of shows that show how to be a good person and they do it far better than this. You're right in one respect and it's that this is a cartoon horse show but in the same vein that you believe catharsis doesn't fit this narrative I insist that it does and it was decidedly implied multiple times. The ending shat the bed and you can't convince me otherwise with half assed gaslighting and shitposting at the speed of light insisting that your politics dictate who I am when I'm very clearly anonymous, stop being a fart sniffing dickhead and look at other viewpoints or you could just keep smugly shitting up the thread until it dies which i'm convinced you're gonna do cuz' you're lame and rude.
Not that anon but I honestly hate the frick out of this shit.
It's preachy as all goddamn hell. The way it's delivered in the end, it's moralizing with a huge fricking neon sign exactly what the audience must think instead of a subtler approach where the audience can make up their own minds.
I might as well be reading the fricking Bible.
The argument is, "You are too goddamn stupid to understand how to think the right thoughts so we have to tell you the right things to think, just look what happened when we were more subtle and nuanced," yeah maybe that's true but I don't want to watch a show written for the fricking idiots in the audience.
People mentioned the Catcher in the Rye. It's like if the last third of the book became a lecture about how you shouldn't kill John Lennon despite the fact that only a psychopath would take that meaning away from the book (and a psycho will just ignore that part).
>You are too goddamn stupid to understand how to think the right thoughts so we have to tell you the right things to think
Events such as the Holocaust and the Inquisition have sadly demonstrated the need for such morality tales. The human animal is, at it's most basic fundamental level, an idiot. It's a meat computer with legs hellbent on keeping itself alive, and also happens to be able to make zyklon-B and the atom bomb. Now multiply that by a few billion and you can see the need to keep things in check.
>Events such as the Holocaust and the Inquisition have sadly demonstrated the need for such morality tales.
If this were true there'd, for example, be no spousal abuse given the millions of stories and PSAs that tell you it's bad. Bad people are gonna do bad things no matter how many times you lecture them.
This is another thing. How many "Don't Do Drugs" PSAs were there at one point? It used to be that every show had at least one. But some studies/statistics found that drug use actually went up, not down.
Turning ALL art, including art made for adults, into moral lectures robs art of its power. Also, who decides which morality is right? The Nazis had their own morality tales.
Anyway I'm not arguing that people should never do it, I'm saying that when a moral lacks subtlety, it can negatively impact a work. Instead of leaving critical thinking up to the viewer, it can become as hamfisted as the lectures on morality meant for young children, usually with the assumption that, yes, the audience is deeply stupid and needs to be talked down to like children. You can argue that's needed, but it doesn't mean everyone finds that type of moralizing enjoyable to watch.
Of course, what's subtle and nuanced vs. what's heavy-handed and hamfisted is a totally subjective judgement.
>he doesn't get that people don't like being preached to
>he doesn't get that if you want people to do something, you have to show them why they'd like the outcome resulting from doing what they should be doing
I mean, even actual, unironic "hell and brimstone" preachers at least say that you'll wind up in paradise if you follow what they say. "Do X because I say so" is never, EVER going to work the way you want it to.
I think one thing is that it definitely feels like a moralizing lecture but it switches from some message about how you have to work hard to improve yourself and do it every day to cutting Bojack out as a relatable character. Instead, the moral is more that people like Bojack are shit and you need to cut them out of your life, but the POV kind of awkwardly changes a bit and it doesn't fully switch to the POV of the other characters.
There is no moral for Bojack, because in this lecture, he's incapable of change so there's nothing he can do but wait to die, but actually killing himself would be bad, which feels pretty hollow. I guess the reason is that it would make others feel bad, but as long as he doesn't guilt trip someone by calling them again, it won't make them feel bad since they've all cut him out and realized he's a lost cause.
It basically just turns the whole series into a lecture on how bad people like Bojack are and that you should get away from them, which is fair, but makes our time spent with Bojack feel like a waste. One odd thing is that Breaking Bad is also about a character who goes full irredeemable monster, but that feels more like the intentional arc of the series than a recon, feels more like a tragedy than a lecture, and has a really ambiguous ending along those lines that makes it seem less didactic.
*retcon
>It basically just turns the whole series into a lecture on how bad people like Bojack are and that you should get away from them, which is fair, but makes our time spent with Bojack feel like a waste. One odd thing is that Breaking Bad is also about a character who goes full irredeemable monster, but that feels more like the intentional arc of the series than a recon, feels more like a tragedy than a lecture, and has a really ambiguous ending along those lines that makes it seem less didactic.
Bojack went from your standard has-been celebrity who is out of touch with reality but who's life story is remarkably relatable despite that to this constant upping of what a piece of shit he is.
Like the whole point of his conflict with Herb in the first season is to put on display how people who fall out feel about what happened. Herb is angry because Bojack basically cut contact, but Bojack cut contact because he felt a huge amount of shame and guilt for not backing his friend at the cost of his career. It demonstrates that no one is right or wrong in this shit, people hurt each other, and sometimes we don't move on. This all gets retconned later to show that Bojack wasn't making a decision that basically everyone has to make at some point about someone in their lives, but instead he was just a naive idiot who the studio would have caved to if he only had a back bone.
how did they retcon the Herb situation?
Didn't they imply the boss b***h would have caved if Bojack demanded Herb be kept on?
yes
She outright stated it. That, the "17 minutes before calling an ambulance" and other crap they tried to push (like PC's assistant loving her all along) should have outted the writers as hacks and been enough to discredit the last season.
it's so obnoxious. it adds nothing to the show to purposely tank the main character's already shitty actions. like
said, the writers shouldn't have had any investment in how a small amount of people looked up to Bojack
Wait do people actually not understand this? Do they think Bojack is supposed to be a likable and sympathetic character? Do they just assume because he’s the protagonist that he has to be some kind of figure that people will relate to and wish to emulate or think that the fricked up shit he does is somehow okay?
You know, I actually don't think it was ever that common that anyone thought this. I think people just say this about others and here on Cinemaphile there are some maladjusted edglords that do because they're just generally crazy buttholes and it has nothing to do with the show.
I think mostly before he became irredeemable, some people thought Bojack was fricked up and unacceptable but hoped that maybe he could improve a little bit, whether or not that's "realistic" or not, and that's pretty much it. That's really far from saying he should be emulated or that anything he did is acceptable, in fact if people wanted him to change it's the opposite.
I didn't have the heart to finish watching Bojack Horseman, I knew they were going to do him dirty somehow.
I don't think it was about the young women but about the things around the young women.
The thing that hurt him the most wasn't that interview but Hollyhock not wanting to see him again and that came about as consequences of supplying children with alcohol and the subsequent bad choices made after that, then hiding it. Because he hid it, Hollyhock can only assume the worst when told about it through other peoples perspective, that's what hurts Bojack the most down the line when it comes to other things too.
This show always seemed like a "made for hollywood people, by hollywood people" garbage show. Glad this thread is proving me right for avoiding it all this time.
Still think it should've ended here?
Yeah. the handful of great episodes later don't make up for the show cannibalizing its own themes.
It's probably the most uplifitng scene in the whole show. For me personally though, seasons 4's ending with Bojack and Hollyhock establishing their new relationship is the show's high point. After that, the show goes out of its way making Bojack the biggest piece of shit ever and getting rid of any redeeming qualities he has.
>After that, the show goes out of its way making Bojack the biggest piece of shit ever and getting rid of any redeeming qualities he has.
What's funny is that by the end they still failed to make Bojack a complete monster that everyone hates-- the only ones who do are the ones who follow the same fricked up ideologies as them.
That isn't what she said at all. How do you misunderstand this hard? Were you watching in another language?
I wish I could see how this show would have turned out if Harvey Weinstein shit and hashtagmetoo had not have happened. It just really felt that the show started to hate its own main character including retconning events to make him even worse than initially portrayed.
It wasn’t about him dating young women, it was about him wanting power over women
Which is horseshit.
In general, Bojack prefers women who don't treat him like a celebrity. Charlotte, Diane, Wanda and the rest- even Sarah Lynn-- none of them worshiped him (as far as he knew in the case of Diane).
The only exception was Princess Carolyn, which was likely the main reason for him never taking their relationship seriously. Heck, when PC said she wanted to be his "mommy you can slide your dick into"... he fired her for her own good. He only hired her back in a less serious moment, when he couldn't be arsed to care about anything, and that time she was the one who approached him.
He did not care at all about Sarah Lynn when he had "power over her", only when she became her own person and she, ironically, had power over him.
It was brought up many times that PC is a massive hypocrite. Pic related. Heck, now that I think about it, isn't she a hypocrite for going along with the "Bojack abuses power" thing while marrying her assistant?
And it was established early on that Mr. Peanutbutter is just Bojack with a smile. He would be EXACTLY like him, if not WORSE, if he also was an addict with childhood traumas.
said the quiet part loud there OP
every single character in bojack horseman is as bad as bojack but they dump all their faults on him over and over acting like they didn't know how to be responsible adults
What did Princess Carolyn and Mr Peanutbutter do that's as bad as Bojack?
The whole "power over women" thing suggests women are too stupid and immature to make their own decisions and that's something I can agree with :B
I mean, when it comes to Sara Lynn, Bojack did in fact influence her from a very young age, most damningly his attitude toward fame. But all these other women want to act like being 18 or 19 or even 25 or 26 is still young enough to be manipulated without any fault.
woah women make excuses to cover their own moronation??? more at 11
I can understand why Herb would want Bojack to back him but I have no idea why anyone on the outside looking in would side with Herb. Bojack was working on family friendly television and his producer got caught fricking dudes at a rest stop? You couldn't find some other way to hook up for casual sex with other men in L.A.? I stand by my producer and his preference for banging strangers in public restrooms? Frick all that.
Because its commiefornia liberalism, so those dudes fricking other dudes in bathrooms in parks in the 80s were heroes.
This is why I prefer Tuca and Bertie.
Isn't that show tone-deaf as Hell? Like, one moment you have the characters being LOL SO RANDOM XD and the very next one of the girls remembers that she was molested by her uncle or something?
Yes but no in that it's given gravitas then goes back to wacky. Also not an uncle a lifeguard.