>nooooo don't turn my barely watchable silly cartoon into something with complex character arcs
why do people want media to be brainless
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>nooooo don't turn my barely watchable silly cartoon into something with complex character arcs
>mkultrabunny
man what the frick lmao
FPBP. I was wondering the same thing. OP could’ve at least used a not brain damaged Twitter poster as an example. If there is such thing. Why the hell is everyone on a Twitter either a coomer or someone into social justice and cancel culture.
it's a cartoon
on cartoon network
Wow bigot, you're telling me cartoons aren't made for 33 year old unemployed women and neets
cartoons were supposed to be made for a general audience to chuckle at without leaning too far in either age bracket.
At least that's what Walt wanted.
At 33 you should’ve fully graduated from animation and watch live-action shows only.
No
You’re 33 and watching cartoons. Grow up.
I'm 26, but still no.
Okay, but why do you, an adult, want the cartoons you watch to be childish and meaningless?
See, people like you fundamentally see animation like the audiences did in 1937, as a funny visual gimmick and inherently style over substance. You don't see it as a medium on its own and don't care about telling stories in it. In principle, you're not that different from all the people pushing for more generic adult comedies becsuse that's the only thing they think animation is good for.
>be childish and meaningless?
Not him, but I enjoy both watching adventures take place and the SENSE of adventure, which is a distinct and separate thing. Early AT had that in spades, later AT didn't.
I wasn't talking about the first seasons of AT, they weren't meaningless either. But you can clearly see the sentiment that "complex = BAD" in a lot of AT discussions here.
If it's all you watch and you absolutely cannot digest any other kind of media, you're probably not a very fun person to discuss things with, at least those that fall outside of your narrow comfort zone.
>But you can clearly see the sentiment that "complex = BAD" in a lot of AT discussions here.
No, that's your cope. The sentiment is "This relationship shit has been done in an annoying way, the older content was better overall". That's not at all the same as complex = bad.
Ok, but that's you making assumptions. When i am watching a cartoon that is not adult-oriented, i prefer it to be light-hearted, and not a drag. Which doesn't mean the cartoon can't have it's more serious moments or subtle moments, but making a habit of doing those in an otherwise light cartoon is boring, at least in my opinion. Then again, i am not the target audience.
Because a light-hearted and fun adventure story is... fun?
What, just because a person becomes an adult they have to enjoy only big brain, depressive, melodramatic or edgy stuff?
OH GOD LITERALLY WHO HAD AN OPINION ON TWITTER?????? THANK YOU FOR MAKING ME AWARE OF THIS YOU GIANT wiener GUZZLING homosexual
You cared enough to reply
moronic "gotcha". They care that you're shitposting; they don't care about what it is you're specifically shitposting.
I typed this out in less than 10 seconds postying isn't hard
>barely watchable
interesting, how did it make so many seasons until the 'change' while being barely watchable?
Bro, it’s bait. So I’m hijacking this thread
For me, it’s Dark Purple. Silly adventure episode, and the opening and ending is comedy gold in context of the series, literally the best joke Adventure Time has done
I hated this episode because it was around the time I was starting to get annoyed about conspiracy episodes, and "dude this soda drink is literally brainwashing people" story plus a Susan Strong episode basically killed my interest.
Booba
BOOBS!
Marceline's closet is my favorite one. The part where Jake screams silently in agony killed me the first time I saw it.
>"complex" arcs
None of the melodramatic forced shit these liberal morons write is ever complex. It's surface level, basic b***h shit only they care about.
Your average shonen fighty boy story can provide better characterisation.
>Your average shonen fighty boy story can provide better characterisation.
Not really. You probably just don't understand the characterization in AT. In the other thread someone compared Princess Bubblegum to Light Yagami, and I would say I think PB is generally a better-written, more fun and well-rounded character despite not even being the protagonist and despite Light coming from a "grown-up" "non-fighty" shonen.
>generally a better-written, more fun and well-rounded character despite not even being the protagonist and despite Light coming from a "grown-up" "non-fighty" shonen.
I wonder if it's true. I can literally not recall anything but how annoying pb was while light was a fun character to watch and listen to. Tbh I think people that like the way adventure times characters are written in the later parts have not consumed any media but cartoons.
People just have preferences.
>someone compared Princess Bubblegum to Light Yagami
That actually makes me mad. PB is much more fun and interesting. Light is just a psychopathic butthole.
Same.
Because they never grew up.
You don't need to keep making threads out of this
the first thing children want to see when they come home from school is weird melodrama that discusses mental health issues
I grew up watching the show and I never had any issues with it.
sorry to hear that anon
That explains a lot about you.
No shit, that's the norm for zoomers
except some zoomers also fricking despise the more melodramatic episodes
you fricking braindead drooling moron
damn that sounds sad
that's like the first thing I want to see because I want to watch something that feels like it has meaning
shit felt desolate coming home from school and all there was to watch were episodic spongebob-derived comedies that all felt identical. it's why i played videogames instead lol
I watch cartoons because I want to chuckle and see unique animation quirks. Story and characters are good, but if I wanted a gripping emotional ride I'd watch a movie or mini series.
you play video games for the melodrama?
it's just easy to get invested in videogames because they're games
episodic comedies are usually purpose built to be something that doesn't require or reward investment. I like comedies but they were so dominant for a stretch and I remember being excited for any cartoon that seemed to have more going on
>something with complex character arcs
>something that feels like it has meaning
Please tell me you're only pretending to be this moronic
I do find it somewhat interesting that whenever people try to bring up how adventure time was "ruined" and became "nothing but relationship problems and melodrama" they always bring up the same few specific episodes, like frost and fire, red throne and breezy. Which are only a few episodes out of a whole lot in the series. It's almost like the bad content isn't as prolific as they say it is, otherwise they'd pull more from all the surrounding episodes but the truth is that most Adventure Time episodes even in this period of the show weren't that bad. I'll even add this, one episode I really find fun is a dungeon exploring episode, and it only existed because of "relationship drama", dungeon train. It's probably the best thing that came out of the breakup arc. And goes to show that they did still having fun adventures in adventure time even with these more emotional arcs and themes, and that the show just feels bogged down and bad because of a few outlier episodes that leave a bad impression when you watch or remember them.
>frost and fire
The two episodes after it sucked hard too. Jake’s perfect sandwich saved the day tbqh
Shitting the bed so hard with the character melodrama is a really big deterrent against staying invested in what's going on; why should I give a shit about what happens in this show if the writers and showrunner just keep pulling lame shit out of their ass?
Wasn't this ep about a guy and his psycho abusive wife that wanted kids and he didn't. then she beat and almost ate him and his friends (finn and jake pretending to be his buds) because he tried to get her to chill
Yep, just one of the "complex character arcs" OP loves so much
>literal YWNBAW episode
what did they mean by this
Establishing Bonnie as /our/ fascist TERF waifu.
Bonnie as a terf is hilarious.
She went out of her way try try and prove to a bunch of wizards that magic isn't real.
She would 100% be a based terf.
It still blows my mind when she's gay for a demonic vampire but denies magic. Kinda based though. Wizards smell like dog buns.
Now she will be cancelled for yet another reason kek.
Now draw her hanging out with Joanne K Rowling
Lucky cat, also seconded.
She herself understands magic quite deeply. Perhaps she's saying it because she hates the magical homosexuals that inexplicably show up in her palace.
But AT is old. As old as Scott Pilgrim. About 20 years old now. AT the show can go to war, drink, vote, drive. And I was a staunch materialist when the show started.
How does it feel to have your heroes resent your ham-fisted attempts to emulate them? Resent that you can know such private things about them?
homie adventure time came out in 2010.
Checked.
Meds now.
It fricking did not. Oh frick.
I guess I saw the 2007 short in college. Well frick. Guess it's not that old.
Behold, your world crumbles apart.
>How does it feel to have your heroes resent your ham-fisted attempts to emulate them? Resent that you can know such private things about them?
What is this troony schizobabble meant to mean?
PB going shopping with famous novel author JK Rowling and Ruby Rose, protagonist of RWBY
>Ruby Rose
Why?
She's a homophobic bigoted TERF
I half get the reason at least.
Imagine how he would mess PB up with forcing magic unto her face?
He did want everyone to know how much of a butthole he was.
Which is weird because in the grables episode she's using magical incantations to bake bread.
They were spiders right? So she isnt being psycho abusive shes acting perfectly normal for a female spider
Ackhsually......
Female spiders eat their mates when they're really hungry, most of the time.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the ending was intentionally unsatisfying though - early AT liked to have a lot of episodes that end on notes that make you go "wait, this isn't good!" before cutting to credits. F&J being covered in the baby spiders and Jake talking about giving up and accepting death was proof alone that the main crux of the episode hadn't been resolved, at the end of every "act" of the episode someone says something gay and defeatist like this, like the flies in the web and the husband spider, so seeing Jake continue to parrot that logic makes it clear the whole point of the episode was to mock the idea that simply having kids or whatever immediately resolves your problems when they're more problems of mindset than circumstance
Oh shut the frick up, you industry pawn. People cite those episodes because they were catalyst episodes for everything wrong after them.
People just like being mad.
Almost as if most of those bad few episodes are plot important and affect the series in greater scales than a bunch of random one-off adventures, you MUST have to watch Brezzy because otherwise how would you how Finn got suddenly his arm back? You can't skip it.
Episodes don't exist in a vacuum, they are all part of the greater whole that is the series. While bad episodes can always be scattered amongst otherwise good seasons, it becomes an issue when the episode is meant to have larger implications and change the status quo in some ways. The episode becomes a staple.
The episodes people mention are all of these. Frost and Fire, Breezy, both of these changed the status quo in addition to being disliked episodes for whatever reason. I don't remember red throne, but it's been a while since I've watched it.
tl;dr One bad apple ruins a bunch, one terrible lynchpin episode ruins a season.
Same I hit videogames hard as a kid becuase no shows were any good.
Repetitive bait aside, it's a show about a boy and his dog going on adventures, delving into weird, cool dungeons and fighting crazy monsters.
It became a show about relationship drama, making Finn suffer, and pushing him out of his own show while ensuring he remains forever alone.
Ironically, Steven Universe did the same thing, changing the show from being full of mystery and monsters, a chipper kid being forced into a life of adventure and cool powers to being 90% about relationships and "sex", and exes getting mad at each other for various reasons.
The only thing these brainrotted writers want to make is soap operas about being a bored 20-something who is always horny.
>The only thing these brainrotted writers want to make is soap operas about being a bored 20-something who is always horny.
Oh god, that really does hit the nail on the head, doesn't it? This explains more than a few cartoons. And if the storyboarders I met in Toronto a few years back are any indication, those same kinds of horny bored 20-somethings are still the kinds of people attracted to seeking jobs as professionals in the TV cartoon industry.
If my assumptions are right, it's neurotic city-dwellers who have lived their entire childhoods surrounded by car exhaust and concrete and have unirionically only seen a handful of real trees in their life. It ruins a person's brain to live like that.
'Cuz it was always shaky at best at doing it and sucked shit by Season 5
the first few seasons are lighthearted silly fun with a few serious moments when it felt right, but there were still plenty of gags, fun, bright colors and cute girls doing quirky things. they're also the most nostalgic for me since i remember growing up watching them as they came out, especially during season 3 when i would go over to my friend's house and watch like 8 or so episodes in a row with her. it was one of the best shows to hit CN since har har tharsdays trickled off and they did that live action shit for a few years, it was just so cool to finally see a really fun & vibrant new cartoon.
the later seasons turn pretty humorless and sometimes frustrating, but i do still like some of the more abstract ones that retain focus on the MCs (astral plane and abstract to name a couple) and like that the philosophical weirdness remained a constant theme throughout the show. its just the lack of humor, finn bashing and extended focus on literal whos that make it kind of drag in comparison to the earlier seasons.
Nothing Rebecca Sugar makes is "complex", she just writes stories about her trivial personal problems and makes everyone out of character to convey her point.
coincidentally the show got good when she left
No it fricking didn't
Rebecca Sugar major fault is her inability to organise anything. First rule of a creative media course is to have a well organised crew with a solid idea for a project.
Writing and melodrama aside I always hated how Rebecca drew Finn, even before I understood the concept of storyboarder styles or who she was.
>Sugar kept pushing for Finn to cry from the start
>only got away with it when she said they'd be happy tears
Literally what the frick is her problem?
Everything bad from the creators' side in TV animation in the last 10 years can be traced back to Pen hiring Rebecca to storyboard for AT. Every single thing that ruined western cartoons since has its source at Rebecca signing that contract.
She has a boys crying fetish.
Much like how Rick and Morty's writers have a Summer peeing fetish.
The feminine Gems cry a lot though
It's either a fetish or she's incapable of conveying emotion unless it involves tons of crying.
Women, am I right?
There’s nothing wrong with crying if it’s something truly emotional to garner that response.
Guys I think I'm into something here.
The same problem Raven Molisee has. She worked on the last season of Ed Edd n Eddy and her "touch" was very apparent.
>Moral Orel avatar
But let's be honest with ourselves, most of you would inject your fetishes in your own shows I can't because full-frontal nudity is a no-no for television
Finn shedding a single tear after saying goodbye to his mother hit me harder than any time a character from Steven Universe started sobbing.
he doesn't cry often.
I'm a fairly emotional guy who doesn't mind crying but it kind of rubs me the wrong way when people assume that you're repressed just because you like to hold it in.
Different people deal with emotions in different ways.
For some like me expressing those emotions makes it better while for others it makes it worse.
>when people assume that you're repressed just because you like to hold it in.
>repressed
>hold it in.
That's literally what repressed means. And repressed (to hold in) being the antonym of expressed (to let out).
So yes, if you "like to hold it in" that is, by definition, what "emotionally repressed" means.
Also, no real human being "likes to" repress themselves. That's the kind of shit you do out of fear of your own emotions, or fear of social ostracisation.
There's a middle ground between repressed and wearing your heart on your sleeve breaking down into tears whenever something gets hard. It's perfectly natural to postpone an emotional response. Letting it out later is not in any way unhealthy.
There's still a difference between temporary compartmentalisation to get things done in order to avoid breaking down at an inopportune moment when you'd have needed a level head, and outright repressing your emotions and never letting them out. While technically both would be considered "repression", the main thing that matters is whether they get expressed in the end, and whether they get expressed healthily. By my books, and I imagine many other people's as well, it only becomes well and truly a matter of repression if you can't get it out even when you want to, leading to all manner of things such as depression and what have you.
>There's still a difference between temporary compartmentalisation to get things done in order to avoid breaking down at an inopportune moment when you'd have needed a level head, and outright repressing your emotions and never letting them out.
Women are incapable of understanding this.
I wonder how much of it comes from the "female culture" hyperfixation on relationships. One thing I've observed time and time again is that many majority-woman interpersonal networks (cause I wouldn't call them friends, they certainly don't act like it) are founded on extremely performative actions of emotional expression. Guys in general are far more likely to bond over unspoken sentiments - how many times have you and your bros been through some Real Fricking Shit and just stood there in silence together, taking it all in?
I think cause of this difference in norms of how we interact (which don't need to be considered fundamental or essential, I think there are things to be learned from both methods and pros and cons to take from both, no part of it needs to be inherent and unchangeable), when many women see someone fail to openly express their feelings about something, I suspect a big part of what they react against is the notion of that person not connecting with others emotionally and forming an explicit emotional support network. Sometimes this is a reasonably founded fear, but other times I think it speaks to a narrow understanding of how different people express themselves. My personal favourite fictional example to point to is Solid Snake, for how extremely honest and expressive he is, despite being also regularly cold, aloof, jaded and never crying. You could make a similar case off Finn as well, with how expressive he is without needing to be an outright crybaby.
At this point I'm now going to overstep my bounds and move from mere observations into stuff that's a bit more unfounded and speculative. I think there's something really weird going on with toxic femininity shit where the average "western" (I can't speak for Europe in general but I can speak for England, Australia, NZ, USA and Canada) female friend group is held together by moments of almost maternal social support. I've seen so many kiddy bouts of performative ugly crying to get help.
There's a reason women have been considered children that you can legally frick for the majority of history.
Zased pedochad
autism
Wow! He's just like me!
She likes it when boys cry, she likes to make boys cry
Reminder Sucrose has gone on record at least twice saying "crying is funny."
It is.
This reminds me of something I recognised just yesterday - Dad's Dungeon is explicitly about how Finn doesn't cry as much as the people around him think he does. He disproves misconceptions about him both in-universe and regarding the actual audience as well, and shows that he can be an emotionally sensitive, extremely expressive and passionate character, without having to also be a crybaby.
By the end of the following season, this has flipped completely. Finn cries all the time, for reasons he never would've cried about (openly, at least), and has become significantly worse at communicating and expressing himself, leading to lots of angst and overwrought melodrama from the relationship problems it causes.
This shift in personality is not exactly directly contextualised by anything - nothing directly happens that really "breaks" Finn, nor is it ever really acknowledged or addressed - so I don't think it was a change that was intentionally and knowingly written into the story. Is Rebecca Sugar genuinely that fricking incapable of keeping her weird personal quirks and expectations of the behaviour of others out of her writing? Like how absolutely no heartbroken 13 year old guy would lie on the floor crying and singing about being "all gummed up inside" - it's such an obnoxious Sugar-ism that's just genuinely uncomfortable to watch because it's no longer the characters you know speaking or singing, it's just her voice coming out through their mouths.
>By the end of the following season, this has flipped completely. Finn cries all the time, for reasons he never would've cried about (openly, at least), and has become significantly worse at communicating and expressing himself, leading to lots of angst and overwrought melodrama from the relationship problems it causes.
So in other words he became feminine. How very annoying. I'm watching Dad's Dungeon right now, I hope the next season doesn't piss me off too much.
Okay, Flame Princess debut episode right after. This is hell.
Which makes it a good cut off point to stop watching the show, Flame Princess and everything related to her was a mistake
What if I just skip all the flame princess content
so sad, I wanted to plow her until my dick turns to ashes
It's even worse when you consider he was crying on the floor for some 800 years old lesbian when he had other princesses lusting after him, not to mention that this whole scene led to he meeting up with FP meaning that her introduction relies on an almost OoC scene from Finn's part to work to begin with
Indeed, it's what I mean when I call bullshit on people claiming that Finn's behaviour through the whole FP arc was in character. It only seems in character if you look at it from the perspective of how they committed to it in later seasons, not from the perspective of how he was in the early seasons and from the perspective of how contrived it was for all that shit to happen.
Finn crying on the floor over PB *could* be totally in character. The guy's dedicated to her, considers her one of his best friends in the whole world. It's just that this was in no way, shape or form a devastating loss. By this point his advances have already been spurned like seven times, and he hasn't permanently lost any kind of relationship or connection to her, so getting spurned and devastated this time just seems utterly fricking absurd. Particularly to focus so hard on the romantic frustration angle, which only further devalues their bond as genuine friends if he completely stops his funk once he finds a new girlfriend. Indeed, doing this and undermining the importance of their genuine platonic bond also just makes the whole idea of him crying on the floor even more absurd.
It makes him a whiny niceguy suffering from a temporary case of oneitis, throwing a b***hfit because he's not getting any. If that was all he valued, then not only is it gross to witness, but like you said anon, he has basically a continent worth of more obliging princesses throwing themselves at him. Why does he care? The episode ties itself up in knots and ironically keeps the status quo rigid through its fear of genuinely naturally developing the characters' relationships, and because they don't care to stop and think about actual genuine motivations.
The worst part is you could salvage these pieces and make an actually thought provoking in character arc with all the same characters and similar major outlines. Will continue.
Here's my pitch for how I'd fix Incendium or whatever the FP introduction episode is. Worth noting in advance that I consider Finn the moral compass of the show with his unerringly righteous heart, and his willingness to take responsibility where others will not is a trait that makes him ironically more mature and adult than the grown-ups around him.
>episode starts the same way, Finn, Jake and PB just chilling together, maybe it helps if Jake isn't there
>some cataclysm occurs that makes it seem like PB just got suddenly killed off for good
>maybe Magic Man comes along, pissed at PB for being a b***h about whether or not magic is real, so he sends her off to a different dimension, but it looks to Finn like he just completely obliterated her, leaving only a chunk of her hair behind
>because frick the idea that Finn had been keeping that in secret, that's really creepy and makes their friendship seem really one-sided and dishonest. Honesty is Finn's specialty.
>exit Magic Man with characteristic vile glee, "hahahahahaaa you'll never see her again!"
>Finn slumps down off the roof, bounces headfirst off a tree branch, catapults into the window onto the floor, and lies there completely wrecked about what just happened, gripping the only part of PB he has left
>Jake walks in all like WHOAAAA MAMA WHAT HAPPENED MAN TALK TO ME FINN
>Finn can only muster a weak "she's gone", maybe something about "what kind of hero am I if I couldn't keep her (safe)?"
>Jake immediately assumes Finn got dumped, cause he's Jay T Dawgzonemaxxing, tells Finn "don't you worry bro I'll make this right"
>Finn thinks Jake is setting off to go rescue PB somehow, has a little bit of time to himself wondering if it's still possible
>maybe cut to PB in the other dimension, rapidly becoming colder and crueller as she needs to be pragmatic to get by and doesn't have Finn to lighten the mood, though maybe this is too early
Cont
>either way, the episode now goes as per normal with Jake seeking out a new gf for his brother, comes upon FP, brings her back
>Finn kinda has a wtf reaction, but goes along with trying to entertain the relationship at Jake's behest, all like "alright man, if you really think this'll make things better"
>surprise, it doesn't. Finn completely reckons with the fact that he was distraught because he genuinely loved PB, and not just romantically
>now he has to deal with the wreckage of now also being stuck in a relationship he never really wanted anything to do with
>resolves this at a reasonable speed, politely turns down FP, apologises for leading her on, and hugs her even though it burns him - a symbol for taking responsibility and doing the right thing even if it's painful, rather than a gay fricking symbol about "wahh relationships are hard and they hurt"
>cut across maybe to PB coming to realise how much Finn means to her now that she can't get distracted by his childish displays of affection, being forced to contend with the fact that he genuinely made her a better person by virtue of letting her unwind while simultaneously holding her to higher moral standards with his constant talk of justice and righteousness
>not sure what to put here, maybe Finn confronts Magic Man alone or something, while Jake has a moment to himself where he realises that maybe Finn has relationships figured out better than he and his pickup artist schtick did
>maybe PB manages to bail herself out and bring herself back - it isn't important to her whether or not Finn was successful in forcing Magic Man to bring her back, just the fact that he kept on trying even after he thought she was dead
>both of them realise there's much more to their friendship than just the romantic angle, and end up genuine friends, Finn moves on romantically, PB genuinely openly admires him and stops messing with his head
Cont
>Magic Man goes all like "hahaaa, I hope we all learned something here today"
>PB and Finn, hugging, look up at him with a sour expression - "is it that you're a COLOSSAL gumwad?"
>"CORRECTAMUNDO! BYE BYE, I'LL BE HERE WHENEVER YOU DON'T WANT ME!", exit Magic Man
>episode ends with FP being struck by Finn's actions, questions what a "hero" is, and begins to explore the concept of responsibility herself, in light of how literally everyone in the Flame Kingdom is unrepentantly evil because they think they're all inherently that way and refuse to take responsibility for the outcomes of their actions
>therefore bringing FP in as an actually important character beyond just "lol she's Finn's gf", and gives room for them to develop an actual meaningful relationship
Thanks
I've spent time with enough women to understand that they're not fundamentally dissimilar from us. I can put myself in their shoes, even if I think most of them act like fricking morons - it's by understanding why they act like morons that I can understand them as people and how they think
Forgot to mention, episode should end with Jake walking in, getting all smug at the hug all like "aw I knew this would happen", or going "wait you thought she was dead? You could've just told me that", they shoot him a look, smash cut to credits
>Honesty is Finn's specialty.
I mean, honesty is one thing, but everyone has secrets, I don't particularly love the idea of Finn being some perfect paragon of goodness, I think he's better with his imperfections.
Women are obsessed with the idea that men should express their feelings more, they just don't understand that guys do that with actions not by ugly crying
>Women are obsessed with the idea that men should express their feelings more,
Women are fricking moronic and don't know what they want
I gave up on this show at the beginning of Season 7, the episodes seemed boring to me and then I only watched specific episodes.
I do not trust a writer and illistrator who drew herself being sexually humiliated by fricking Gaz
You got the pic anon?
I like Mutos the best
Same, they have an energy that makes Finn feel like more than just lines on paper
It reminds me of proper 2d animation sketches.
Could you imagine a more simple lighthearted rubberhose-style adventure time, now that would be watchable.
Yep, best mix of expression and simplicity. Economy of lines.
Every single one of these is bad and it’s no wonder Cartoon Network is in the terrible state it is now
Funny enough Rebecca's has the most soul.
her drawings awkward her face sketch is wonky
That would be Muto's.
Even more funny
What it could have been, if we get rid of 4 from this pic?
I hate Muto as a director, but his Finn is objectively the best.
And what the frick is Xylophone smoking to produce a Finn like that
>The person with a mononym goes most off model
What's Nat up to these days?
I sense your jimmies are rustled
>nooooo i hate cartoons with plots that last more than one episode!!!
>omg i can't get enough of Demon Slayer and Dragonball Super, Violet Evergarden was the best show ever!!!!
what if I like none of those cartoons
Pfft what kinda gay doesn’t like Violent Evergarden that’s the best fate story I’ve ever seen. Granted it has minimal combat but frick if it wasn’t the best character driven Saber they shown us.
It's not funny
It's a snoozefest.
never watched any of these
Not a very good example. Nobody who is a fan of Violet Evergarden is going anywhere near DBS.
Imagine being such a b***h and having to use anime examples when you could have easily used cartoons example like Atla for big ongoing plots and a lot of superhero shows for smaller ongoing plots.
>omg i can't get enough of Demon Slayer and Dragonball Super, Violet Evergarden was the best show ever!!!!
Don't forget SnK and Naruto!
but VEG was an episodic problem of the week show?
I watched the stakes saga just yesterday and I didn't think it was as terrible as people thought it was
Yeah it was okay.
Most people liked it fine, only contrarians and connaisseurs hated it. Like me, I still hate it with a passion.
Why do you hate it?
I'll just have to cite myself:
>I hate it, for many reasons but mostly because of its malignant intentions. First of all Stakes wasn't Marceline's special. It was a bubbline special that supposed to show off how much better, smarter, more competent and more supportive Bubblegum is than Finn, and how she's a great partner for Marcy, that's it, rest of the special is just a cheap pretext for it. It betrays the series and almost everyone acts OOC, that is if Marceline has any character left. Premise comes almost out of nowhere and is stupid, resolution is stupid and forced. It's basically the last of Marcy's starring roles, after that she gets reduced to an incompetent prop who can't even play guitar well without her mistress' help. The queerbaiting is atrocious, the bullshit about maturity is also a blatant lie, because when Obsidian comes her personality gets rewritten yet again
I can elaborate, but this is the gist of it.
honestly i agree, especially with how hard it was baiting bubbline and shit. feels like people collectivelly all forget about that and how the majority of everything else is kinda boring.
it's the reason why i've always preferred elements and islands
Who the frick are you? Go back mr famous.
Bubbline has broken peoples' minds so bad they overestimate its prevalence an insane amount. Stakes was not about bubbline, not even close. There's only 1 (one) episode that actually focuses on that relationship, and the attention there is split between that and Finn and Jake fighting the moon. At the end, it isn't PB but Ice King that convinces Marceline that her existence as a vampire has meaning.
Yeah I wanted more tbqh.
Please, just shut the frick up.
God damn she is such a dyke.
This part made me wanna vomit
Befriending Finn and Jake got her out of that funk
?t=228
Loving the autistic rage.
K
Never really thought about it but meeting Finn probably was a better point in her life.
Of course it had bubbline shit in it, but that is very different from it being a "bubbline special." The majority of the series focused on marceline and her her fight against vamps, and her relationships with other characters. Obsidian, now THAT's a bubbline special.
So Marceline is a good little girl now?
Only PB gets to call her that. If anyone else tries they get the shit scared out of them.
wtf is wrong with that woman? why can't she be normal?
I wish we got to see green pb in her regular dress more.
If only we could make the episodes ours to begin with.
>With no defense, left the bubbline shipper desperately tries to hide their REEEEing
It's very sad. There were always going to be some episodes focusing on these two because the idea of them playing off of one another was in the damn pitch bible for the show.
Relationship drama wasn't the problem with the show as it went on, but some of the worst episodes do just happen to focus on it. Adventure Time was just never a good avenue for this kind of storytelling. Its simple character designs made it easy to create a lot of characters, but their ability to express emotion visually is rather shallow. On top of that the show was built around storyboarders having a lot of freedom, and while any one of those boarders was free to introduce storylines others were often just as free to shut them down or move them in a wildly different direction.
>and while any one of those boarders was free to introduce storylines
Not really. Storyboarders still had to pitch their ideas to the writers/directors and get them approved. It wasn't like a total free-for-all. For example, Jesse wanted to do an episode on how weird Jake/Lady's relationship was, but Pen said no. Sugar's attempts to make Finn cry were vetoed several times.
>Sugar's attempts to make Finn cry were vetoed several times.
why is she so obsessed with crying? it's weird.
She loves melodrama. I'm glad she got her own show to do that with, because that super, emotionally-charged style doesn't belong in AT, as a rule.
The thing is that you can write a compelling melodramatic story in just 30 episodes. It's extremely easy but Sugar keeps dragging it infintly.
Pen said he stopped meddling in storyboarders' work so much after the first two seasons, so it was basically a free-for-all after that barring S&P. That's why S3 has both multiple episodes where PB kisses Finn on the mouth, and also the Bubbline debut episode.
So things got good after he got out of the way.
They got both better and worse at the same time, but in the end the worse camp prevailed and had it their way for the rest of the show
That's not how it works! There's still a team of writers that make the outlines storyboarders work off of. No one storyboarder has the power to unilaterally decide what an episode is broadly going to be about.And Pen not mucking around with storyboards as much doesn't mean he had no oversight. He was still the showrunner ffs.
Ole Saint Pen could do no wrong!
Pretty much. Imagine how pissed Pen would be if you told him that he had no control on 3 seasons he was running the show.
Storyboarders get to plant seeds in episodes to leverage future writers, Bubbline was added as a seed in what was originally written as an episode focused on Finn's relationship with PB and Marcy, now it's seen as nothing but "Bubbline: The Origins". Pen got tired of having to say no to stupid storyboard pitches like making PB trans so he let them do whatever.
schizo level 900
Yet Hanna made bubbline kiss.
Sure, but it still had to get through the pitching process. I also find it hard to believe they weren't semi-expecting Hanna to do that when they gave her the bubbline part.
She kept doing the gay shit too. Even in F&C.
> Its ugly character designs
I am just now watching through season 1 and wtf is this gif? Why are they putting Finn in such an awkward position? Early PB and Finn seem to really play off each other and seem kind of mischievous together, so this seems out of character. Does she really hate Finn that much later on?
Female writers.
That segment was boarded by a man.
No, PB doesn't hate Finn. She just didn't want his hand awkwardly on her shoulder while they're standing around talking. It's a personal space thing, which I totally get. It's a bit cringe how Finn is awkwardly trying to include himself in the conversation lol, but PB and Marcy aren't being rude here.
Someone decided to write a scene of Finn being rude to his friends even though it has no bearing on the episode's plot
So Finn was excluded? That's abuse.
you are right. it's completely out of character and disrespectful to finn, the series and the fans. people who wrote that episode and forward really hated finn and didn't bother to hide it.
Finn was just being autistic like always.
Why does she look like Nancy Reagan?
I don't remember people shitting on Stakes when it came out, as much they were just shitting on the general era of AT that it ended up being one of the only decent parts of.
I hated how they made Finn and Jake mouth breathing/burping morons just so the dynamic could forcefully focus on Marcy and PB. Also Marceline screaming "I'M GONNA POOP MY PANTS IF I CANT BEAT THIS GUY" was when I finally started hating the "comedic dialogue" of the show which consistently degraded.
Is not terrible, is just average.
Happyness doesn't win Emmy awards
I gave up on the shower after season 6 and only watched scattered episode when friends wanted to watch it with me. I thought Stakes was okay, unfulfilling like most of AT after season 4. I didn't watch Islands or Elements, but I did see all of season 10 and the finale. None of that was as bad as the worst episodes from seasons 5 & 6, but I just didn't car anymore.
>I gave up on the shower after season 6
Stinky.
The only reason people think this show is pure melodrama or "Finn suffering" is because of echo chambers. I watched the whole series and it's fricking funny how different the reality is from how people online see things. Fricking morons the lot of you
Yep, I could barely find any lesbo action.
Oh frick off literally 90% of what finn did after the FP breakup was being depressed or getting shown up by other people.
>it's fricking funny how different the reality is from how people online see things
This is true for so many things beyond cartoons
Adventure Time has always been mutt garbage
adventure time is a clusterfrick show but sprinked with charming and clever animated sequences
it's like a good cartoon buried in awful commitee decisions
Honestly animation has always been adventure times biggest weakness no matter the season. I don’t know what crack you’re smoking but share that shit.
I just mean the parts where finn and jake are doing funny things. It's creative and enjoyable to watch.
I would rather have something that doesn't try hard, but ends up good, than I would want someone that tries its heart out, but ends up being shit.
Ambition is pointless if it doesn't have a good end result.
Weren't you homosexuals saying the same exact shit years ago?
Why would it have changed?
wonder how many teenagers were turned into giant pussy homosexuals by sugar when they were kids
The REAL question is how many teenagers were turned into raging anti-semites by sugar.
A lot apparently, she's the first target to point fingers at for putting the seeds of the PBxMarceline ship and introducing Flame Princess to suck out all the fun of the show with relationSHIT melodrama, both the 1st and 2nd biggest mistakes of the show
Funny when it was far from just her rooting for bubbline.
She was the one to pitch it, it didn't exist as a thing before her
Nope, Natasha was drawing that shit before they even met in show.
Do you have a source
>s-she shipped finnceline guys I swear!
Shut up Sugar we know it's you trying to defend yourself
They didn't have complex character arcs. Everyone treated Finn like shit & suddenly PB is in lesbians with Marceline.
>suddenly
She played her gay love song with a two sided axe for a reason.
Didnt read a word from this thread but i have a feeling not a single thing said here is true and you homies are just trying to find the new thing to have a meltdown over and targeted AT because of the new series
Yes people just want to be contrarian.
So you don't know what the words you use mean and you don't understand characters in a show meant for tweens. Frick man...
"Misery porn"? This guy would die if he watched a Lars von trier movie.
Kids want brainless (Skibidi Toilet and TTG!)
and Cinemaphile
Anyone who complains about AT is just moronic.
It's not that the lore and plot are bad in general; they were shit in Adventure Time specifically. The story could have been much, much better than the shit we got. If you don't know how to change show, don't ruin the thing by changing it.
Actually looked at the episodes she worked on and only I Remember You and Simon and Marcy were the really dramatic ones, maybe the Lich episodes too
Incendium wasn't dramatic? Burning Low?
this confirms the show only got good after she left
I don't get it, most of these episodes were generally good. Nightosphere and Daddy's monster was good Finn and Marcy interactions. Is it just because of What was missing?
the problem is that the adventure time writers are just not good at writing. it was fine when it was color candy bullcrap. the moment they tried to write a story their idiocy was exposed
It started of as a brainless show. same thing happened with su.
Rebecca Sugar is such a wildly overrated writer, holy shit.
I know you're being a disingenuous gay on purpose, but I'll bite anyways. No one has problems with complex shows being complicated. But Adventure Time was not a complex show in the beginning. It was whimsical, silly adventures and that's what people liked. Then it turned into something antithetical to what it began as and that turned a lot of people off because it was no longer what it was when they fell in love with it. Just like how sometimes couples just drift apart due to changing personalities or goals in life.
Where is all the fun go?
EGRESS EGRESS EGRESS
I like that HW's episode came right after that one. Old Finn would have never scored with her if he hadn't gone for that trial.
I love how in that later episode Jake confirmed Finn was stuck in there for years
wat
"What about when you got trapped in a mind dungeon for a buncha years?"
I thought that was just Finn telling Jake about his predicament later on.
Finn would have been a lot older than 17 come the episode, "Seventeen", if was actually stuck in the mountain for numerous years.
Unless the writers just forgot about it later on.
Magic logic, he probably didn’t age normally in the loop
Could that be why Jake died so soon in comparison?
I thought the implication was that he didn't age while in the Hall of Egress.
Creepy af ep.
>became pure episodic melodrama and misery porn
This isn't even true.
If I invent a time machine I'm going to kill the people who made the original basedjack faces
Please PLEASE do it
Don’t forget about the shit loving furgay behind this
Backwards time travel is impossible. You're better off going scorched earth and hope the Basedjack creator died in your path of rage.
You have my sword
Nah, go to the source
I'm going back in time to stop the guy who made feels bad man get him to not make it
It's insane how hard the sharty has buckbroken Cinemaphile. Just the posting of a single wojak sends you into a seething rage.
I stopped watching right around when the flame princess dumped Finn or whatever it was. Like most of the posters here I found the relationship drama to be mostly dumb and forced. Should I try watching the series again in preparation to watch that new spinoff thing they're doing?
sure anon, that could be a fun adventure
You can tell adventure time was mostly written by women and effeminate men.
Go back to watching The Shitstones and Yogay Bear
This artist’s Twitter porn account just got termed, pour one out
Did it have Betty content
Some nice Simon/Golbetty pieces
So. If I become an antiquarian I get a crazy hot crazy girlfriend and I become some Ice Wizard. That is the deal, right?
>Twitter thread
have a nice day yourself you fricking maggot
>complex character arcs
It was a manchild's idea of a complex character act.
Ain't that the truth, sussy baka
Adventure Time arguably transformed into something with incredibly broad appeal to something more heady and niche which perfectly explains all the hate surrounding it on Cinemaphile. Western cartoon watchers are generally looking for a specific experience of harmless fun which Adventure Time kind of outgrew. Not to say that harmless fun is necessarily a bad thing, but it's clear the show had different ambitions later on than just pure silliness. It was certainly pure silliness done very well and in a form that felt very contemporary for the time, but pure silliness nonetheless. They began to introduce elements like Finn demonstrating a lot of very cringe/unlikable traits which, especially in a cartoon where the online viewerbase are going to be autistic viewers, are going to be incredibly alienating to those audiences. Personally I find giving your protagonist a lot of unlikable traits is very interesting, but it makes sense that it's an alienating element, because people necessarily want inoffensive entertainment with purely likable characters and a clear delineation between good and evil. It doesn't even glorify or make the unlikable traits particularly endearing parts of his character that are a lot of fun to watch either in the same way that they are for a Walter White for example, it's just kind of that raw toxicity that you would get from a teenage boy. It turned a fantasy into a more in depth examination of growing up.
Aside from that they made a lot of weird/experimental episodes that could be hit or miss to a lot of people, like I don't see episodes like Sad Face or Mountain of Matthew being immediately engrossing to a cartoon watching audience as more blatantly over the top. You have to be in a different kind of mindset to enjoy later Adventure Time I think, and that's not really something Cinemaphile wants to do.
>Aside from that they made a lot of weird/experimental episodes that could be hit or miss to a lot of people, like I don't see episodes like Sad Face or Mountain of Matthew being immediately engrossing to a cartoon watching audience as more blatantly over the top. You have to be in a different kind of mindset to enjoy later Adventure Time I think, and that's not really something Cinemaphile wants to do.
No shit. There are plenty of other "experimental" animated shows that I can watch. AT was fine for what it was at the beginning and it built up some expectations that were ruined. Let's say we are going to see an action movie but the cinema plays a SoL one instead. It could be the best written SoL movie yet I wouldn't care since I was there for an action movie. Expectations mean a lot.
Then change your expectations you baby.
Why? I can simply drop the show that is no loner fun and move on.
You forgot the moving on part.
Don't worry I don't come to complain in your AT threads. You can have fun, it's not my problem.
Unirionically this. "Expectations" are what literally ruin everything for everyone. Shit will never live up to the weird idealistic fantasy version you keep in your head.
Also chasing "expectations" is basically the mental version of a heroin addiction. You're always chasing an epic "first hit" but it never ever feels the same as that first time, and so you end up chronically disappointed and craving more and more of the same.
are you insane?
You hit the nail on the head. Especially the part about inoffensive entertainment. Adult cartoon fans want some complexity, but not too much. A flawed main character, but not too flawed. Just enough to keep it engaging, but not any more to actually be challenging or uncomfortable. A character like PB breaks peoples' brains because they're so used to judging media in black and white terms.
>judging media in black and white terms.
That is a sign of autism.
>PB is just too complicated for you chuds!
Unironically have a nice day.
>challenging
I think you mean annoying and moronic. That's the crux of the issue here, that the show became annoying and moronic.
>to be fair you have to have a very high IQ to understand post season 5 adventure time
You convinced me. Deliberately choosing to make the show dour and uninteresting was a genius move. When half of the show's viewerbase immediately disappeared over the course of a season, that was an example of simple close mindedness from the part of the viewers.
that's literally a whole new sentence, but considering you interpreted it that way it may just be true
saying AT grew out of it being harmless fun is like saying that someone with Stockholm syndrome grew out of being kidnapped
This is a bunch of fart sniffing nonsense.
This diatribe essentially boils down to "Adventure time became too high brow for dumb people who just couldn't "GET" the new stuff.". And saying to "change your expectations" is fricking dumb when it's the show that sets all that up in the first place. If the movie promises me something then goes another way I am disappointed because I didn't get what I came for. And you act like finn was somehow made unlikeable, he wasn't he was just done dirty by writers who didn't like him for what he was. The show became not about him but side characters. For all of Finn's hardships he really gains nothing and there's no real resolution or arc for him. The show is pointless meandering about nothing, so lost in it's own esoteric nonsense that little can be drawn from it. It's one thing to start with an unlikable character, but you don't start with a likeable character then character assassinate them or go out of your way to punish them. The audience that identifies with finn is of course going to feel alienated. It doesn't help that the show just has poor resolutions and boring as frick designs and episodes later in the series which just became a chore to watch. There are good moments here and there but there's no payoff to anything.
I want to impregnate Finn's mom.
Lore and needless adult drama in children's cartoons is for Redditors.
>People just don't like complex plots
Or maybe they just don't like the idea of completely changing something that already worked, into a poorly made drama narrative, that is being jammed into a framework that was never meant to hold it in the first place.
If you try to convert a car into a train, and end up not only destroying the original car, but also making a really shitty train, then when people complain about your train being shit, it doesn't mean those people hate trains. It just means you've made a poor decision, and should probably just have made the train from scratch instead of trying to convert something else into something it isn't, ruining both in process.
Adventure time was ripe for deeper character exploration. Early AT is more introspective and character driven than people give it credit. IK was portrayed as a sad, lonely old man from his first episode. He didn't even need a tragic backstory to be sympathetic. Marceline's tough, cool girl exterior masking her desire for connection and validation was established early on. AT is basically a slice-of-life, with a fantasy twist. There are a lot of sitcom-esque episodes: Meeting the in-laws, trying to balance love life with home life, getting jealous of a perceived love rival, gaining newfound mutual respect after trying to go on their own, asking a crush out to the movies, trying to fix a mess before PB gets back from out of town, etc etc. Later AT episodes just leaned into that character-drama even more. As Finn grew up, his problems became more complex. The tone changed, but the central thrust of the show, being Finn, Jake and friends dealing with their personal drama and generally dicking around, didn't change at all.
>IK was portrayed as a sad, lonely old man from his first episode
Yet it was in a very cartoony way. What I would have expected was an equally cartoony resolution and no what we got.
>Later AT episodes just leaned into that character-drama even more. As Finn grew up, his problems became more complex. The tone changed, but the central thrust of the show, being Finn, Jake and friends dealing with their personal drama and generally dicking around, didn't change at all.
The problem is that as the show progresses instead of being humanized a lot of the characters keep acting like robots. Maybe the writers think that it's very realistic for characters to have this weird pauses in their speech, to completely ignore each other and to act ooc whenever the chance comes but in reality it's not that interesting. The thing is that there are other adventure animated shows with the same mood of what I've already described which do it 10x better.
What happened is the show dug into their subtleties more. A kind of reverse-flanderization, which some people thought made them boring. Personally, I feel they did become more humanized. I connected with them more as they were given more opportunity to talk like real human beings. Maybe that seems robotic in comparison to the higher energy, hyperrealistic nature of cartoons.
I'm not an EEnE fan, but isn't that basically a SoL as well?
Anyway, fundamentally the framework of AT is no different at the beginning to the end. It's just a world of characters living their lives, and dealing with personal shit, and ocassionally saving the world. If anything, the framework made deeper character drama inevitable, not impossible. Because over time, of course the writers are going to want to dig deeper into the characters and what makes them tick. The longer a show goes on, the less excuse there is not to examine character motivations, backstory, intrapersonal conflict and so on.
Loved how the world grew as Finn did.
>I'm not an EEnE fan, but isn't that basically a SoL as well?
It's a physical comedy.
nta but it's both
No it isn't. SoL can have comedic or dramatic elements, but it doesn't focus on either.
EEnE is purely comedy driven. It being set in a mundane setting does not make it SoL.
>And you can't fault people who liked the former for not being on board with that change
I don't. It's totally valid not to like the tonal direction of the show/shift in emphasis.
You could also easily write a slice-of.life drama based on EEnE, using the stuff we know about their family life, but not only is it not guarantied to be good, it would fundamentally not be the same show.
That is the problem with AT's later seasons. It wears the skin of early AT, and in a few cases the spirit of early AT will even shine through, but it is fundamentally not the same show any more.
Now, that will often happen with any show that runs for long enough, so I'm not going to act as if it's something unique to AT, but it very clearly went from a comedy with some some over arcing mystery and drama elements, into a mystery/drama with some comedy elements.
And you can't fault people who liked the former for not being on board with that change if it's not not something they care for, or just think was poorly executed.
There should be room to experiment, but if you choose to do so, you should also be ready for people to not like the changes you make, especially of you completely change the tone.
I think this is the most reasonable post in the whole thread tbh. Like understandable if you liked the earlier vibe of the show more but it’s silly to act like it was some dramatic betrayal of what the show was about to lean in more to the character based stuff.
What was the code to filter mass repliy homosexuals? I forgor
ATgays sure are getting uppity for a show that lost 70% of it's fanbase during season 6.
Wrong board
I don't care homosexual I liked it
The concept of a show that grows up with it's viewers is an uncomfortable and alien thing to people who never grew up.
AT was infantile from start to end. It's literally for people who refuse to grow up.
It didn't though.
And i say this as someone that didn't even mind the growing seriousness of the story.
But that doesn't mean it grew up with me.
It only grew up with a certain type of person who frequents tumblr and twitter and loves melodrama and romance.
It didn't grow up with the rest of us who wanted some actual fun and adventure in a show called Adventure Time.
the irony of Muto being the guy to board Finn doing blatantly overpowered shit he shouldn't be able to do.
i grew up with it, as in i was like 10 or 11 when it came out and was a couple years younger than finn through most of the series, but i did fall out of watching it around season 5 and after doing a rewatch i still prefer rewatching the early seasons
Except AT was a show that switched from pandering to children, to manchildren, to womanchildren, no growign up ever occurred. All the pivotal theme-changing episodes and arcs were based entirely on the writers' fetishes, traumas, hangups, mental illnesses etc rather than any organic evolution of the premise.
>The concept of a show that grows up
>GROWS UP
FKING KEK
It’s a kids cartoon, by its very nature it isn’t grown up. The difference is it went from being for kids to angsty teenagers or at least people that act like angsty teenagers.
>grows up
The fanbase was always too old for what the show's intended audience was/should've been. Even now they're overgrown children.
>AT fan
>Accusing others of never growing up
homie
Surprise, people who act like they're mature are some of the most immature, socially stunted people on the planet. Pity them, but do not attempt to help them
I wanna call out the artist of the image because plenty of artists in AT did the “bags under eyes” thing in the show besides Rebecca Sugar, so it’s not really her signature move
>Barely watchable
>The majority of animated media is "barely watchable silly cartoons"
Get the frick outta here, homosexual, those "silly cartoons" were here far before your animated drama.
A show becoming melodramatic bullshit doesn't suddenly mean it's high class writing, it's actually more brainless than the goofy episodic shit in season 1.
Every israelite has a deep rooted desire to make an award winning melodrama, and they will stop at nothing to produce it. They could be working on a kids' cartoon, a reality show, or a cheese factory and they will always try to direct the flow of production to a poorly shot 2 hour dram about a set in his ways uncle and his gay nephew.
I wonder what this says about their cultural norms given this readily observable desire to have their more melodramatic emotions witnessed and validated on such a scale
A big part of their culture is based around sadness.
They literally have the wailing wall. a lot of passages in the Torah about suffering, the prophet Jeremiah and so on.
The saddest people shit the loudest
What?
I thought Hebrews were comedians.....
Rebecca Sugar had already basically left by this point, I don't see what this twitter mongoloid's point is.
Adventure Time really disappears up its own ass in the last couple of seasons. It has so many episodes with sparse dialogue, once-off characters, nebulous time travel and reality hopping that it really just ends up nothing. I was surprised the show took this kind of turn but after learning the Homestuck guy was involved with it it suddenly made sense.
Giant tangles of timehopping and characters playing bit parts that may or may not insinuate things for the main cast make for a very entertaining Homestuck general on an imageboard with a few hundred users, but it makes for really shitty TV.
I just think she can't draw for shit
I mean, maybe she can?
>Captcha:YYASM
She just genuinely has some autistic fetish for ugly drama emotional faces.
More expressive so it's better.
AT vs Nu-AT
>200 replies to shit bait
Welcome to Cinemaphile.
the only unwatchable episodes of AT are ones focusing on tree trunks. god I fricking hate her, maybe that was intentional? a supposedly sweet old lady who is actually a creepy narcissistic b***h? seems like the other characters like her though which is the worst part.
Tree Trunks' VA is Pen's mom's friend, she was also Slippy Napkins in Bravest Warriors, I think he just wanted her to be in the show more and the extreme contrast of TT being an old lady but a crazy b***h was textbook AT humor
RIP
What ever your opinion I think it’s undeniable that adventure time shifted its tone and focus over time somewhat. I really love it all the way through for the most part but I think it’s fair if some have preferences for some parts of the show over others. Personally it’s my favorite thing when a story starts off lighthearted and not too serious and organically grows more depth over time. I do hope there’s more episodic stories in the future.
>boy gets sad
>complex
If I lived in your miserable world I'd have killed myself by now bravo sir
I think part of it too is just that if you’re going to work on a show for 5+ years eventually you’re going to want to do more exploration of different vibes and tones. I think it’s a little unfair to creators to want them to just keep doing the same thing even if that’s what drew you to their work in the first place
The thing is that they didn't do it very properly. Even in a shitty Ya novel characters have better dialogue than late AT.
adventure time becoming bad isn't rebeccas fault as much as it is the fault of the writers that still worked after her departure desperately wishing they were her
>Having to rely on silly kids show that the creator left to tell a “serious” and “mature” story.
Grim
Hard to get the green light for anything with a story. Also it's more like the remaining team were just having fun.
There are already plenty of cartoons with a good story like atla. Reinventing a fun cartoon into a mediocre melodrama was not a good idea.
That's just incorrect. Also I always see the use of "melodrama" from posts like yours. Either you're very loud or you have yourself a buzzword.
Not him but the word melodrama is a fitting word to describe what some people, myself included, think about certain parts of the show. It's basically used as shorthand for bad drama that feels forced.
And buzzword in of itself has become a buzzword since it’s something morons use to a some all purpose defense when they can’t argue.
This is just something else, huh?
2011... What a time. The things I did, and the things I didn't do. I forget how old this show is, really often.
I feel like most people don't want challenging media but want to be assured that what they're watching is challenging media.
Yeah
What constitutes challenging media isn't exactly rigidly defined either. It tends to shift over time and vary depending on the zeitgeist.
as someone who is just going through adventure time season by season, seasons 1-3 have some truly boring and pointless episodes and ice king (the best character in the show) barely shows up.
Those seasons always felt like a chore aside from a few eps.
I'm doing a similar trip and thought there were some appeals to season 1, especially given the time period the show came out in. Showing adventures in the way AT showed them was really novel.
idk as someone who was 18 when it started airing and watched it at the time it was just your typical 10 minute gag show like spongebob or chowder except sometimes it was really boring. adventure time had a unique look and a strong voice cast but it really only got interesting with the later melodrama episodes when pendleton ward was basically gone.
I think you and I are so innately different that it might be impossible to even come to full understanding of the other's views on this. AT had actual adventure and captured a certain spirit, or 'vibe' if you want to use that word, that those other cartoons just didn't. It wasn't just art direction or good casting by my perception.
this homie doesnt know how to have fun. sad
as i said, i'm 31, and i first watched this when i was 18. the kind of stuff i find fun is ten year old tom.
idk it was just obvious that there were no stakes and everything was lolrandumb, it's hard for me to see it as adventurous when everything is just so silly and not especially funny
I appreciated AT for both the seriuos and silly seasons, I also started watching it at your same age.
I never watched Adventure Time besides a few random episodes but I've been binging it for the last few weeks and I'm on season 10 now. The change in tone felt pretty gradual and normal to me where I don't really get complaints. And the show is still really silly. I've enjoyed almost everything except the Graybles episodes, some of the BMO centric ones, and some of the guest animator ones which I zoned out on.
Yeah even as a kid I was more captured by episodes like HJS WWM and alike.
You were based as a kid.
I might have just had a twisted sense of humor. I like seeing my favorite characters struggle too. Just makes a win better.
>I like seeing my favorite characters struggle too. Just makes a win better.
True. I never like Finn more than while bad shit is happening to him.
It feels so good to get rained on.
This artist has a fantastic AT ensemble piece that he's taking forever to finish
I want to frick Marceline's mom and Finn's mom at the same time (I am racist)
Same. I remember going apeshit when Finn put on the crown in the Farmworld episodes. Same with Finn getting his arm ripped off, and the Simon reveal. Part of me thinks that people who complain about lore of any kind are just kinda dumb.
The irony of farmworld Finn is so much fun. Really got to see the monkey's paw in action.
Even though we only got to see PB for a moment, seeing and hearing how happy she was made my heart smile.
She doesn't get kidnapped by IK anymore, no wonder why she's chipper. That and settling her issues with Marc would work.
I haven't watched Adventure Time since like 2014. Do I need to rewatch it in order to watch Fiona and Cake?
Yep.
Things changed a bit so I would suggest you do.
Actually, maybe not rewatch, but definitely finish the show at the very least, if you stopped around 2014 you've missed a lot.
it's worth it. I gave up at season 8 I think, not sure if that was around the time the awful shit happened with flame princess but the show gets better except for one pointless shitty tree trunks episode in season 10 and wizard city in distant lands is pointless and boring as well.
But the arcs were literally anything but complex
Is this why Finn looked so weird in that episode when he goes "Bubblegum I was in heckin love with you and you didn't love me back!" because I always felt he looked off model in that part.
If the characters faces are very expressive with bags under their eyes, you're probably watching a sugar scene.
I'm fine with melodrama I just wanted finn to get with marceline
It was never gonna happen, but I guess its alright
I don't want to make any accusations, but I think some people had a crush on Marceline (that was the intention of her character after all), self-inserted on Finn, and wanted/hoped/expected them to get together, even if that obviously was never going to be the case in the actual show.
She did turn him down hard and fast.
Did she? That's good. Marceline is a smoke show, but she really does have a brother-sister relationship with Finn.
>even if that obviously was never going to be the case in the actual show.
That's very easy to say in hindsight. This is a Columbus' egg situation.
You're probably right about that, I for one never considered Marceline a real love interest like PB and FP (hell, I considered Susan Strong more of a serious love interest than Marcy), but maybe if I watched the show for the first time again, I'd think differently, it's all about how the viewer interprets the characters and their actions I think.
It was very easy to say in foresight too.
Not really, she was sabotaging his date with PB and wanted to kiss him (but no tongue), she was teased him all the time. She was clearly meant to be a tsundere option for Finn before Sugar took Pen's toys away.
She wasn't into him, and vice versa. Not to mention the age gap. It was never going to happen. I thought most finncelinegays understood that.
I don't think he even watched the show.
not that anon but it's less about the fact that the pair didn't happen (used to that) and more that the show then contorted itself around bubbline that's salt in the wound
Now you know what it's like.
>age gap
Doesn't she act like your average 20 - 25 year old girl despite her being a thousand years old?
Yes, but Finn was 12???
19yo LSP raped a 15yo Finn, this show don't care
She's a thousand years old, she can wait a couple years to avoid a statutory charge.
You're just making yourself sound like a groomer.
Listen if court statistics have taught me anything, it's that women can get away with this stuff scott free.
Yikes
Hey, don't yikes me anon, yikes society.
She was a thousand years old dude, who cares how she acts. He's a child.
when you get to thousands of years old type shit age gaps cease to matter in any form yes even if he's a child, realistically anyone would basically be an alien in mindset at such an age. Regardless though I disliked the attention to romance at all. I was ok when it was just a non-serious crush, got majorly annoyed at all the romantic shit whenever it focused on finn. Was like amputating a gangrenous limb when it was all over.
Anon you are dumb, learn what arcs are. Had Kim Possible's writing room been taken over by Kigo shippers mid-show, the fact Kim rejected Ron for Josh in one of the episodes wouldn't be evidence "Kim x Ron was never going to happen" when the original writers literally stated that it was going to happen.
Not comparable.
It is the exact same situation
You went full moron.
You went full no argument
>age gap
She's like 200 years older than PB
They were close enough in age when they met. It does get weird if you think about it too much. Like a lot of AT.
So you're saying all a writer would have to do to forever break up Bubbline is write an episode where a kid PB meets and spends time with an adult Marceline, but ends the story with them getting amnesia of the events, and has them regain the memories in current time to make them realize they were problematic all along?
That's the sort of moronic and contrived retcon writing Finn was hit to break him away from PB and Marcy.
wtf...?
You said it's okay because they were close in age when they met, if someone wanted to make it not okay, all they'd have to do is retcon it so they first met while PB was still in kid mode, but have them both forget and then remember that meeting. That's the sort of writing Finn was subject to from S3 onward to separate him from PB and Marcy.
>actually Lemongrab exists PB needs to be old all the time
>actually PB was 800 years old all along
>actually PB never liked Finn despite all those early episodes
>actually PB and Marcy were exes all along
>actually Marcy stopped hanging out with Finn permanently for some reason
>actually PB and Finn can't happen even if they're the same age because.. because
She made it pretty clear early on that she didn't like Finn that way in Couple's Night
I absolutely projected onto finn but I still like the pairing beyond that. I'm a sucker for the specific dynamic of younger guy and cool older girl. Wendy x Dipper is the same niche
Yeah that one was me, sorry guys.
Nah, it's more like the basics of their early season dynamic with Marcy constantly teasing him to get him flustered, and Finn managing to fluster her in reverse through sheer unending sincerity that gets past her defences and makes her realise her vulnerability despite her scary and aloof front, is a really really engaging dynamic. There's a constant tension of who's gonna wind up taking the upper hand, and no matter what happens, it seems like both parties learn something from the experience. Finn rapidly matures from having to deal with the constant mindgames, and Marcy gets forced to confront elements about herself she'd long forgotten about.
I wouldn't want to see them actually date, partially cause that defuses a lot of the tension if there's the expectation that they should be communicating openly (part of what makes bubbline so boring now that they got together too, unless the catharsis is really worth the resolution, usually the tension pulls a lot more weight in engagement), but I really really wish we saw more of them interacting.
WWM was kino to me for how it was a shining moment of Finn's based autism managed to more or less completely touch everyone's hearts and make a massive difference that everyone else was too proud to acknowledge in the moment - a really profound victory for him. I was hoping we'd see more episodes where Finn's sheer emotional and interpersonal maturity (stemming ironically from his lack of maturity regarding tact in conversation and expression) would challenge the maturity of the people around him and form a natural evolution to the status quo, and more interesting tensions as he outgrows being the little boy they all look down on. But it felt like it never materialised.
very well said
You sound like a woman.
Kill him at once
All the milfs have sad ass stories. It sucks.
I don't expect women to understand that boys and men don't usually give as much of a shit about romance and drama as they do, and I'm pretty sure Adventure Time was a Cartoon Network show aimed at a young male audience, not a Lifetime Network show aimed at adult women. At the end of the day, when a biological woman is in charge of writing a story, the female mindset ultimately always reflects in the writing, just like it does with Harry Potter and Twilight.
speak for yourself, shipgayging is the best when it's good ships
You're on Cinemaphile, most of the men here think like that as most men here have a borderline feminine mindset. Take Cinemaphile for example, most men don't typically b***h as hard as anons do over there, lol.
I would say adventure time threads get up to.... 60% Woman at points? Real life woman too, they all type in a way that is easily identifible if you had to interact with zoomer woman online at any point
Anyway, it makes discussions almost impossible to have on AT threads because they are going to defend their lesbian ships to the death
Which aspect of AT offends women the most?
Hmmmmm.... I mean Finona is used to dab several time on modern women (as a mirror to how they started dabbing on Finn) but most of them just self-inserted into her without self-awareness and wanted to frick Simon
How many women viewers wanted to frick season 1 and 2 ice king do you think?
four
>complex character arcs
>shipping
What do you guys think of Doctor Princess
So IK liked her cuz she's a nerd like Betty huh?
That was my thought as well. Even separate from being a nerdy she is kinda Betty-like. Emphasis on kinda.
When it was later revealed that she wasn't actually even a doctor, I felt shocked and betrayed.
>Not a doctor
>Not a princess either
>Just has a stupid name
great gag
The fact that she's not a doctor, and is in fact completely bullshitting and winging it, was lame.
Bet Marceline's bat form is warm in the winter.
There are no seasons in OOO, only elements.
Watching since I was 13 and the show just started. These b***hes won big time.
it's just so cute bros
Is there an archive of these drawings somewhere?
no idea, found these on twitter
Check the adventure time wiki page
This is a fact:
The melodramatic journey from childhood to late adolescence, with the distancing or loss of friends, family, old identities, and one's brash innocence--reflected by finding the tragedy and nuance in a world that, before, seemed to be an ever-stretching playground--that others have long since politely lost patience for, leading one to become a more dull but worldly and genuine person is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in terms of pure artistic value compared to Finn just saying "SLAMACOW" and trying to punch a bad guy in the face cuz he's bad.
True but unironically
There's nothing to be ironic about. Adventure Time as it stood in the beginning was genuinely bold and fresh, but it quickly fell into something quite rudimentary for storytelling as a whole. Its only novelty comes in the meta way it leveraged a formula shift to try to hammer in its later stories, but that doesn't really give it legs or suddenly grant those stories quality.
There's a bit of a false dichotomy in there. To simply call early Adventure Time mindless is a disservice to the creativity present in it and what bits of deeper meaning and subtext it used to elevate its existing storytelling. What it became is by no means the natural end to such aspects being within the show at all. The fact that it could have such things and incorporate them well while keeping the focus so enthusiastically locked on pure Adventure, even when adventures dipped into the macabre and personal, is what made it so great.
Why do you huff your own farts so much?
Cuz you smell like them and I like you so much
Am I the only one that liked the IDEA of adventure time exploring deeper themes and increased character exploration, but that it was a fail execution of it and too Tumblr'y?
Well even a couple of the posts you responded to talk about how early Adventure Time did well to weave deeper themes and hidden character backstories into the rest of its package, even if it was often just for comical or surrealist juxtaposition. The path it even took is, while not an inherent """evolution""" of those things being in the show, not an entirely unnatural path to take. It's hacky as all get out, but not unnatural.
I think generally, a lot of the naysayers would've been cordial to something that did dig more into those things but then keep it more in line with what people liked originally, not just in tone but with formula. It's also not really outside of the norm for similar shows in the monster of the week or episodic style to touch on deeper aspects of itself and its cast while not drifting away from what it used to be, so it's not like AT couldn't have done that as well.
It's just that we got what it turned into and what we originally had. There's a lot of hypotheticals to be had and would've/could've/should'ves, but it's much more concrete to say "I just want a thousand more episodes of what we had," and since that'd be a perfect solution on its own for said people (especially since it, again, had those things but just didn't put as much of the overarching focus onto it), they can just leave it at that.
Sometimes things should just be fun, no deeper meaning or subtext, no layers to try and dig into. Just have it be mindless fun, if you grow out of it and lament that it should have evolved into something meaningful too bad. Frankenstein and Sesame Street are good for what they are, trying to turn one into the other only taints both and leaves you with something that satisfies no one.
Damn fricking straight my man
Even after all this time, hearing “See you in the nightosphere you sick freak” still makes me chuckle.
Honestly yeah, now that you bring it up, this whole episode sums up a lot of the original seasons' strengths perfectly. Also the fact that Finn somehow has the time to instantly draw that dumb fricking face makes me genuinely chortle every single time.
I got annoyed when they added so much complicated shit to the lore when what made interested in the lore in the first place was because the world was an aftermath of a nuclear war.
Frick me for wanting the silly fun cartoon to stay that way and not careen wildly into the opposite direction.
I like Finn in formal attire
How does Natasha always make the gang look good?
And what?
Oh how time has changed here.
He should have kepd Fire Finn as a super mode. Shit was clutch.
>This homie thinks late season adventure time was complex
This is on par with white women who never read anything other than Harry Potter
Define "complex" so that I know what you're talking about and can give appropriate examples.
because silly cartoons are fun, and the way the complex character arcs are handled are not as fun as silly adventures. simple as.
Isn't it just the legacy of all those 2010's cartoons that tried to go serial with an overarching lore that the vast majority of them overstayed their welcome and didn't have satisfying conclusions?
Scooby Doo Mystery Inc was about the only one that did, and in just two seasons. Gravity Falls didn't even manage that even though it didn't go into zombie mode. Star VS, Adventure Time, Steven Universe, Tomodachi wa Mahou, it all ended up going to shit when they went 2deep4u and fan theories ended up being way better than whatever the hack writers came up with.
>Isn't it just the legacy of all those 2010's cartoons that tried to go serial with an overarching lore that the vast majority of them overstayed their welcome and didn't have satisfying conclusions?
I don't like most of the show, but Adventure Time's legacy was becoming on of the most influential cartoon series of the 2010s. AT won 8 Emmy awards, and it was a merch juggernaut. In spite of not looking like what the stereotypical cartoon looks like design wise it did go with the thin lines modern cartoons are known for. Both its sense of humor and its ongoing storylines in a comedy cartoon were taken up by other shows. For better or worse I don't think you get Rick & Morty without Adventure Time, and I don't just mean because the former star played Lemongrab.
Emotions bad!
nice strawman
In retrospect I didn't actually hate AT until the ending. Watching it again I still find enjoyment in the show, up until the finale.
Even after all these years it's utterly awful. Can't even use "rushed production" as an excuse it's so goddamned bad.
I come from a land down under
Where beer does flow and men chunder
Can't you hear, can't you hear the thunder?
You better run, you better take cover, yeah
The best episode of adventure time is the train ep cause it was just adventure and finn getting a lesson at the end
You are just a moron. The only way any serious theme could work in a show like AT is if it's gonna be presented very subtle and between the lines, through metaphors, like any other good children's story does. Watching random cartoon characters with the minimum effort made to draw them crying and go all psycho emotional talking about "adult stuff" is pure cringe and cannot be taken seriously by anyone who is not on the spectrum. It could work as a comedy. Like Smiling Friends, where bizarre cartoon characters behave like normal people and that's the point of the joke. But AT unironically demands you to take it in full seriousness like it's fricking Lord of the Rings or something. AT lacks any self-awareness and this is what killed the show
You can actually see the exact moment Finn was sidelined and "The Adults" took over the show. Pretty sure it was when Magic Man literally told him to sit down and shut up.
schizo
All I have to say is Marceline slipping Finn the tongue is hilarious and always will be.
i mean you're both right
yes it's good for cartoons to actually have a story and go deep once in a while
no, hollywood liberals are not really capable of doing that consistently well
>it's another X screenshot thread
are you the same Black person who made a thread claiming Golb was as good as HP Lovecraft?
What do you all think about her?
I'm not against giving Ice King some sad background, but he souldn't have become Simon again.
Ice King essentially just died.
So? It’s sad, but isn’t it a more mature route than the usual “nobody ever dies” route kid’s cartoons take?
Either make him Simon then kill him or make him be the Ice King and make him grow.
He already was able to do so : he went from cartoonish vilain kidnapping princess to just chilling in his kingdom and trying to be Finn's friend.
Hell, even without its wish granting state, the Crown is one of the most powerful magic artifact in Ooo. Ice King is just too silly to use it seriously / effectively
That's moronic.
Are you implying Adventure Time isn't moronic ?
It's the good kind of moronic, it's super moronic.
He only became Simon again at the very end of the series. It was the conclusion to Ice King’s story, and one that Simon deserved.
I liked the original short's weird surreal stoner humor, and it kept that vibe for a season or two, then eventually lost it and I lost interest. It didn't necessarily become a worse show, but it definitely became a different one that I didn't like as much. Clearly a lot of people did, though.
>Adventure Time post Mortal Recoil
Why would you ever put yourself through watching that trash?
>why do people want media to be brainless
It's okay to have something that just makes you laugh, like a coyote trying to catch a road runner and failing
I didn't really like this episode at all. It's not that it was shit exactly, it just wasn't entertaining and the very best parts were Finn, Jake, and the Ice King in the background.
That's a Kino ep the heck?
The snowman didn't do anything for me and the flame puppy didn't do much either, and the entire episode was pretty much centered around both.
I binge watched this with my ex wife a long time ago and i could always, without fail, tell when an episode was written by Sugar.
It always felt super melodramatic for absolutely no reason. There was also very rarely any truly intellectually stimulated concepts unless another writer was credited.
Adventure Time is one of those things that really convinced me that romance drama in media that doesn't revolve entirely around romance in genre is such an active detriment in writing that you could completely remove all this love triangle bullshit and end up with a product that is squarely superior in every capacity.
I still love this precious boy. No matter what he's been through.
He looks like a girl. A cute one
Watching the cookie troony episode right now. This is great, can't wait to see the troony jump off the ledge and kill his/her self.