calibarn is honestly not that great outside it's universe since it's too dependent on permet to work. And really it's best skill is killing itself and other gund units
-SF is great, but is absolutely fricked under gravity.
-00 raiser hell GN units are broken by default, but 00 raisers breaks it by being able to teleport. Sure you can say reborns was better, and it was spec wise, but if both suits fought in equal terms, reborns would get hard boddied by 00 raiser.
GN hax wins by default. If it's either unicorn or turn a on that roster, then either those two would win.
00 raiser would still win. But it'd be hilarious seeing sf and caliburn wtfing as this fossil of a suit shrugs all their beam atttacks.
calibarn is honestly not that great outside it's universe since it's too dependent on permet to work. And really it's best skill is killing itself and other gund units
-SF is great, but is absolutely fricked under gravity.
-00 raiser hell GN units are broken by default, but 00 raisers breaks it by being able to teleport. Sure you can say reborns was better, and it was spec wise, but if both suits fought in equal terms, reborns would get hard boddied by 00 raiser.
GN hax wins by default. If it's either unicorn or turn a on that roster, then either those two would win.
00 raiser would still win. But it'd be hilarious seeing sf and caliburn wtfing as this fossil of a suit shrugs all their beam atttacks.
The thing about Barbatos is that it never really got a super upgrade. It only got increments. And why would it? He was already ahead of the grunts in the series, and he was barely challenged by anyone. The only time they would have needed an upgrade is to fight mobile armors.
Probably Strike Freedom unless 00 Raiser can get close and make it a melee fight. But 00 Raiser struggled against Ribbonz Gundam's beam spam. Kira can do the same. The Gundam from Witch of Mercury isn't a bit factor. It's severely under armed with is weapons and defensive power. 00 Raiser can literally block its attack with GN Field. Strike Freedom can block it with a beam shield. It's likely to be taken out early in the battle. Then the battle will be settled with 00 Raiser vs SF.
00 Raiser isn't equiped with the right weapons to handle funnel spam and will get taken out quite quickly.. So it will be just Calibarn and Strike Freedom. The DRAGOON pods in seed aren't shown to have individual movement ability and are pre-programmed to move a certain way, so Calibarn's Gundbits will be able to trash S freedom quite easily since each Gundbit is the soul of some child and can move independently by ewtype soul magic.
Youre forgetting that reborns fought a depowered 00 raiser since it just used tran am burst. And setsuna is pretty good at dealing with funnels even when he was still using exia. If 00 can trans am. It will bullshit its way against both.
So i'll have to give it too to 00 for the sheer reason that gn particles are hax tier by itself. Caliburns permet shenanigans wont do shit against the other two and strike freedom can't beam spam someone who can teleport.
Strike Freedom has wings of light though. Even Destiny Gundam couldnt catch up with SF with Shinn going full throttle Destiny Gundam and stepping the gas pedal.
>And setsuna is pretty good at dealing with funnels even when he was still using exia.
He's okay at dealing funnels. But 00 Raiser was still slowly getting picked apart by Reborn's funnels. You are forgetting that 00 Raiser was losing against Reborn's Gundam and had the Ptolemy had to shoot smoke screen missiles to blind Reborn's Gundam just to give 00 Raiser a chance.
>strike freedom can't beam spam someone who can teleport.
Except Setsuna can't really control the teleporting in 00 Raiser. It seems to only work when Setsuna gets triggered emotionally.
>It seems to only work when Setsuna gets triggered emotionally.
You think Setsuna doesn’t have trauma on demand he could use to activate that? >You are forgetting that 00 Raiser was losing against Reborn's Gundam and had the Ptolemy had to shoot smoke screen missiles to blind Reborn's Gundam just to give 00 Raiser a chance.
Wasn’t the situation different there though? It’s not like Setsuna was just getting destroyed by theme. Also what conditions are the suits and pilots in? I feel like that has to be established to make sure you aren’t putting a powered down suit up against one at peak performance.
>Strike Freedom has wings of light though. Even Destiny Gundam couldnt catch up with SF with Shinn going full throttle Destiny Gundam and stepping the gas pedal.
Destiny is canonically the fastest MS in CE
got a citation on that?
I just know they have the same combat variation of voiture lumiere, except SF's doesn't have mirage colloid for fancy after images
>Strike Freedom has wings of light though. Even Destiny Gundam couldnt catch up with SF with Shinn going full throttle Destiny Gundam and stepping the gas pedal.
Rewatch Destiny, the only reason the SF got away is because Shinn drained the Destiny's energy, that MS by itself was so fast thanks to the Voiture Lumiere used as propulsion as opposed to the SF using it for cooling.
>sf fans
it fought a shit strike freedom and a nerfed providence. It was cruising on easy mode throughout the series
>win in a fight
Strike Freedom, obviously.
00 Raiser would UNDERSTAND its way to victory, though.
I like the Caliban's aesthetic, but even the IBO Gundams could probably eat it for breakfast.
>wings of light
that'll hardly help against something that can trans-am, and teleport >but he can't control teleport >gif clearly demonstrates he can
moron
>He's okay at dealing funnels. But 00 Raiser was still slowly getting picked apart by Reborn's funnels. You are forgetting that 00 Raiser was losing against Reborn's Gundam and had the Ptolemy had to shoot smoke screen missiles to blind Reborn's Gundam just to give 00 Raiser a chance.
Did you miss the part where reborns fought 00 raiser after it used trans am burst. Like reborns knew 00 at base performance is dangerous. That's why he had to ambush setsuna.
>Strike Freedom has wings of light though.
How fast are Destiny and Strike Freedom in CE anyways? They use the same propulsion engine, but it never feels "fast" when they use it. Destiny is deceptive because of the after images.
Let's see. I'm not an astronomer, scientist, math enjoyer or whatever, but Kira stole the Freedom when he was in PLANT and Earth was in the middle of operation Spitbreak. PLANT is located at Lagrange point 5, pic related.
The time travelled should be short because while Kira was talking with Lacus, the Archangel was getting bombarded from all directions before the Cyclops system activated.
I think anyone who knows math should be able to get a good estimation of Freedom's speed from this.
Lagrange point 5 is around 92 million miles from Earth.
Let us say it took Kira an hour or two to get there because he stole it while Archangel was getting in trouble.
If he took an hour and if my math is correct, the estimated speed should be around 14% the speed of light.
Lagrange point 5 is around 92 million miles from Earth.
Let us say it took Kira an hour or two to get there because he stole it while Archangel was getting in trouble.
If he took an hour and if my math is correct, the estimated speed should be around 14% the speed of light.
Anon... That's the Sol-Earth Lagrange points, not the Earth-Moon Lagrange points. Seed uses the E-M Lp like UC.
Lagrange points are just points of gravitational equilibrium in two body gravitational systems.
11 months ago
Anonymous
My bad, then. Do you have an estimate of the distance? Can't find it.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Earth-Moon L3-5 are all at lunar distance for Earth system orbit. That means if you're looking at L3 through 5 you're looking at the average of around 385,000km.
E-M L1 is stationed opposite E-M L2 near Luna with E-M L1 being on the near side and E-M L2 being on the far side. That's why Zeon was past the moon since they're stationed at E-M L2, while Luna II is stationed at E-M L3 opposite Luna.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Given what we know about orbital mechanics and with our current technology, it is pretty much a given that it takes about 3 days to get from the moon to Earth (or from L5 since they are equivalent distance and in the same orbit) and vice versa. Any dramatic depiction as seen in the show would not allow for a realistic speed and is therefore subject to doubt and can be called an error on the part of the studio staff, and there are plenty of errors in the show. Even if you stretch out what the show depicts and opt for a purely theoretical situation, giving Kira 6 hours to travel from L5 to the Earth, and let him travel in a perfect straight line from L5 orbit to the Earth (straight lines are NOT a thing in orbital space travel), it's still unrealistic.
Minimum distance from Earth to moon in a straight line is 360,000 kilometers, if you divide that by 6 it is 60,000 kilometers an hour. To give a sense of scale, that is equal to about ~16 kilometers per second, or ~10 miles per second. That kind of speed is usually only ever achieved by the fastest space probes that NASA has ever launched and it takes years of carefully planned travel, sling-shotting past planets to give them a boost. AFAIK, no rocket in human history has ever achieved that speed in a short time under its own power without some kind of external assistance. If we apply that to Kira and take the show's dramatic storytelling to mean what, 30 minutes to 60 minutes travel time, the speed and acceleration to travel that distance in that time would turn Kira into pink paste.
Let's see. I'm not an astronomer, scientist, math enjoyer or whatever, but Kira stole the Freedom when he was in PLANT and Earth was in the middle of operation Spitbreak. PLANT is located at Lagrange point 5, pic related.
The time travelled should be short because while Kira was talking with Lacus, the Archangel was getting bombarded from all directions before the Cyclops system activated.
I think anyone who knows math should be able to get a good estimation of Freedom's speed from this.
And SF and Destiny are faster than Freedom.
>Strike Freedom has wings of light though.
How fast are Destiny and Strike Freedom in CE anyways? They use the same propulsion engine, but it never feels "fast" when they use it. Destiny is deceptive because of the after images.
Strike Freedom has wings of light though. Even Destiny Gundam couldnt catch up with SF with Shinn going full throttle Destiny Gundam and stepping the gas pedal.
>And setsuna is pretty good at dealing with funnels even when he was still using exia.
He's okay at dealing funnels. But 00 Raiser was still slowly getting picked apart by Reborn's funnels. You are forgetting that 00 Raiser was losing against Reborn's Gundam and had the Ptolemy had to shoot smoke screen missiles to blind Reborn's Gundam just to give 00 Raiser a chance.
>strike freedom can't beam spam someone who can teleport.
Except Setsuna can't really control the teleporting in 00 Raiser. It seems to only work when Setsuna gets triggered emotionally.
you guys are assuming too much from a badly written show with more stock footage than a heavy arms segment. Fukada definitely forgot that space is fricking huge
11 months ago
Anonymous
Earth-Moon L3-5 are all at lunar distance for Earth system orbit. That means if you're looking at L3 through 5 you're looking at the average of around 385,000km.
E-M L1 is stationed opposite E-M L2 near Luna with E-M L1 being on the near side and E-M L2 being on the far side. That's why Zeon was past the moon since they're stationed at E-M L2, while Luna II is stationed at E-M L3 opposite Luna.
Doesn't matter. It took Kira 3 days to get from the Plants to Earth.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, it took Apollo 11 four days to get from launch to landing on the moon. Future tech taking three days to go from the Plants to Earth isn't ridiculous at all.
Given what we know about orbital mechanics and with our current technology, it is pretty much a given that it takes about 3 days to get from the moon to Earth (or from L5 since they are equivalent distance and in the same orbit) and vice versa. Any dramatic depiction as seen in the show would not allow for a realistic speed and is therefore subject to doubt and can be called an error on the part of the studio staff, and there are plenty of errors in the show. Even if you stretch out what the show depicts and opt for a purely theoretical situation, giving Kira 6 hours to travel from L5 to the Earth, and let him travel in a perfect straight line from L5 orbit to the Earth (straight lines are NOT a thing in orbital space travel), it's still unrealistic.
Minimum distance from Earth to moon in a straight line is 360,000 kilometers, if you divide that by 6 it is 60,000 kilometers an hour. To give a sense of scale, that is equal to about ~16 kilometers per second, or ~10 miles per second. That kind of speed is usually only ever achieved by the fastest space probes that NASA has ever launched and it takes years of carefully planned travel, sling-shotting past planets to give them a boost. AFAIK, no rocket in human history has ever achieved that speed in a short time under its own power without some kind of external assistance. If we apply that to Kira and take the show's dramatic storytelling to mean what, 30 minutes to 60 minutes travel time, the speed and acceleration to travel that distance in that time would turn Kira into pink paste.
Check the archives. Freedom and Justice have equal performance and one of the mechanical books state the Justice does 7Gs. Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice double that speed. Speed is measured in Gundam stats by Gs (Tallgeese, Victory 2, etc)
I've never gotten why they do that. Ya, most modern fighter jets can pull 9 gs, so what? The MiG 31 can probably only pull 5 gs, yet flies way faster then any modern fighter.
11 months ago
Anonymous
That means it's acceleration and turn rate is poorer than a modern fighter. Top speed is only useful for running away.
>But 00 Raiser was still slowly getting picked apart by Reborn's funnels.
You realize this was AFTER an entire battle of against the Innovades and using the Trans-Am Burst which basically means the 00-Raiser was depleted in terms of power right? For all Setsuna's abilities he can still get tired and he's barely had time to rest before Ribbons and his cronies come out to try and gangbang him.
00 Raiser isn't equiped with the right weapons to handle funnel spam and will get taken out quite quickly.. So it will be just Calibarn and Strike Freedom. The DRAGOON pods in seed aren't shown to have individual movement ability and are pre-programmed to move a certain way, so Calibarn's Gundbits will be able to trash S freedom quite easily since each Gundbit is the soul of some child and can move independently by ewtype soul magic.
>00 Raiser isn't equiped with the right weapons to handle funnel spam and will get taken out quite quickly.
You say that like Setsuna hasn't dealt with funnel spam before. His first time with the Throne Zwei he took down 6 out of 8 in quick succession with just beam sabers, and later when he fought Saachez with the 00 Raiser he was suffering from a bullet wound to the shoulder yet still had no major issue fighting Saachez off and would have killed him then and there.
Thirdly you're forgetting the fact that the 00 Raiser can fricking teleport. Kira has no real counters for something like that so any advantages he has are fairly minimal like the Phase Shift armor which should counter GN Sword in theory if the GN Particles don't just ignore it anyway.
>Thirdly you're forgetting the fact that the 00 Raiser can fricking teleport.
00 Raiser can't teleport on command. It's only when Setsuna is triggered emotionally and is also on the verge of death.
And why would it not be possible for him to learn how to do that on command? I thought he did do it on command a few times when fighting the innovades?
>And why would it not be possible for him to learn how to do that on command?
Because we only go by what we see on screen for debates.
Plus the teleporting ability of the 00 Raiser was never in the original specs. 00 Raiser is a compromise patchwork suit. Setsuna was originally supposed to pilot 00 Gundam Seven Swords. But the twin drive was unstable and the suit would blow up everytime it used Trans-Am. They made 0 Raiser as a bandaid to help fix 00 Gundam's problematic twin drives.
The suit you are thinking of is 00 Quanta. celestial Being had to build an entirely new suit from scratch for Setsuna to be able to teleport freely. THAT suit can teleport on command (as long as there is clear line of site).
No, there’s a scene upthread where he uses the 00 Raiser and teleports when neither his life is in danger directly or he’s emotionally distressed. He can do it on command near the end of the series. Qant is far more stable and it’s probably easier but by the end of S2 he can freely use it against others.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Setsuna only teleport like 3 times in the series.
1. The first time when he is emotionally distressed that his friends might die against the A-Laws attacking the Celestial Being base, and teleports when fighting the Innovades.
2. When he is enraged at Ali Al Sanchez and is trying to kill him.
3. When he fights against Ribbons and is angry at Ribbons for manipulating everyone and ruining world peace.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Are you forgetting this scene?
[...]
Youre forgetting that reborns fought a depowered 00 raiser since it just used tran am burst. And setsuna is pretty good at dealing with funnels even when he was still using exia. If 00 can trans am. It will bullshit its way against both.
So i'll have to give it too to 00 for the sheer reason that gn particles are hax tier by itself. Caliburns permet shenanigans wont do shit against the other two and strike freedom can't beam spam someone who can teleport.
Setsuna can call upon it when he needs to. It’s not as stable as it later gets with Qant but it’s not like he needs to be losing his mind to use it. It’s not like it even matters that much anyways.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Are you forgetting this scene?
Like anon said, that's the first time he uses it. Setsuna is panicking because everyone is getting hurt or dying. 00 Raiser was never meant to be able to teleport. The engineers never knew about it. It's just some random thing that happens when the Twin Drives synchronized and Setsuna is emotionally distressed. Even then it only teleports a very short distance for melee combat. 00 Quanta was designed for teleporting in mind.
11 months ago
Anonymous
He doesn’t need to be able to teleport across the planet for it to be effective and in this hypothetical fight, it would make sense that he’d be able to put himself in the mindset needed to use it. It’s arbitrary to try and say he can’t use it much. Like I said, it’s not as stable or as good as the Qant but Setsuna can use it effectively to do what he needs to.
You should think of the teleporting ability of 00 Raiser as a small bonus. Not something that can be relied on consistently in battle. Basically something that might save Setsuna from getting hit by a killing blow, but nothing more.
You're a fricking moron who's never even watch 00. GN particles are so busted that they stop nearly everything other GN particles weapons.
They stop everything except GN blades, but that just makes them busted. It doesn't imply that they could stop out-of-universe beams if we follow the other anon's logic.
The truth is that when the next real G-Gen comes out, Aerial and Caliburn will be more than capable of using their i-fields to tank beams from every timeline, just like every other machine with an anti-beam whatever can. There's no reason to put extra limits on it.
You’re ignoring why the GN Blades don’t work on them. Other beams would most certainly be stopped by it, I’d be more worried about the actual physical weaponry than anything. I think you misunderstood me, I wasn’t saying that Calibarn couldn’t block it like GN shields could, the initial conversion was about how apparently Calibarn’s beams would make 00 shield ineffective when it would be a case of both suits being able to block each other just fine.
GN particles block everything, it's essentially just super armor. This is on top of the fact that E-Carbon is supposed to be a super material used to hold the space elevators together and CB has a super refined variant that's several times stronger even without GN particle coating.
>right frequency of the beam and adjusts to it
The frequency thing is the other way around. Or rather the compression ratio. The GN-Xs were able to do damage and block shots by knowing CB's compression ratio. Otherwise the only way to get through GN armor is either GN blades or brute energy, which is an uphill battle, especially when trans-AM comes into play.
My bad, I knew it was something like that. I’m just going off of what I know from Setsuna, but in the case that they did fight, he’d most likely focus on taking out whatever bits he could and depending on how strong the Calibarn’s shield is after missing a few bits would determine how the rest of it would go but honestly the main issue Calibarn has is that if the bits get taken out, it can’t do much other than run away and in a war of attrition, as long as the pilot isn’t tired, 00 has the advantage.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>I think you misunderstood me.
In that case, my bad.
GN particles block everything, it's essentially just super armor. This is on top of the fact that E-Carbon is supposed to be a super material used to hold the space elevators together and CB has a super refined variant that's several times stronger even without GN particle coating.
>right frequency of the beam and adjusts to it
The frequency thing is the other way around. Or rather the compression ratio. The GN-Xs were able to do damage and block shots by knowing CB's compression ratio. Otherwise the only way to get through GN armor is either GN blades or brute energy, which is an uphill battle, especially when trans-AM comes into play.
Just to clarify, knowing the GN particle compression ratio only evened the playing field a little. The GN-Xs are still very much inferior to the Gundams even if they're a lot closer than flags and other old MS. Despite having a numbers advantage and the element of surprise the GN-Xs still lost their first combat engagement with the main CB crew.
>setsuna: Trans am..Rais-oh God is that the Mobile suit Embedded Tactical Enforcer? >Saji: is that...really what meteor stands for? >Setsuna: he's too fast! Save me 0 Gundam AIIIIEEEE *explodes*
How is it moving the goal posts when XN-Raiser was never built in the first place? Its just a "What-If?" that the Haro made for Saji.
https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/GNR-010/XN_XN_Raiser#History
It depends really. The 00 Gundam Seven Swords is canon because that's what Setsuna used for the 00 Gundam during the timeskip between Season 2 and the 00 movie. It was even suppose to be the original upgrade plan for the 00 Gundam within the show itself, but they could never implement it because of the Twin Drive system's faults necessitating the 0-Raiser's installation. During the encounter with ELS, side material reveals Setsuna could have actually used this option set but chose the 0-Raiser equipment since he wanted to communicate with the ELS.
As for the XN-Raiser, that is non-canon because while concept was proposed, the XN-Raiser itself was never actually built. It only exists as simulation data that Celestial Being ran as possible upgrades for the 00 Gundam.
The main advantages of the 00XNR versus the regular 00R would be the extra swords, and the extra arms to wield more swords. It doesn't really change anything about the Twin Drive System and its crazy GN particle output, which enables 00R's absurd performance.
The METEOR works better against groups more than fast individuals. They're not as maneuverable as normal and Rau as well as manga Shinn did more damage against them than without.
00-Raiser fairly fricking easily. Setsuna's reflexes are good enough to dodge and take down the Strike Freedom's DRAGOONS and that's without factoring in Trans-Am tripling the 00-Raiser's performance in addition to all other benefits Setsuna gains like teleportation or the ability to create a huge fricking beam saber with it.
Why the frick is Caliban there? Without a Permet source to hijack, it's completely useless in this fight.
The 00, GN Drive enhanced e-carbon armor has been shown to take multiple beam shots while mobile suits in the Ad Stella and Cosmic Era timeline lose limbs and get one-shot by standard beam weapons regularly. This is disregarding the fact the 00 has a better long range weapon with its raiser sword, better melee capabilities being armed with multiple melee weapons, and Trans-Am. The Calibarn probably would come out on top if its allowed extra equipment in the form of Gundnodes which could deflect beams from a fleet of warships.
Depends how long the photon torpedos can go considering the 00Q has an even greater output raiser sword than the 00 Raiser (it managed to cut a huge opening on a moon-sized alien). No idea how quantumization would interact with antimatter particles though, if the torpedoes can't affect the 00, the G-Self would likely just get forced into close quarters and likely get destroyed by a melee focused suit with 6 GN sword bits. The G-Self can probably handle most of the Gundams, especially pre-movie ones, of 00; but, I doubt it could take on the movie suits, especially the 00Q which was simulated by a super computer to have been able to single handily stop an alien invasion that the whole combined military forces of Anno Domini's Earth Federation couldn't.
G-Self has two kinds of magic particles anon. 00 only has one kind of magic particle.
In Gundam the more magic particles you have the stronger you are.
>00 only has one kind of magic particle.
And that's all he needs considering Setsuna evolved into a space god capable of bringing people back to life which was before he turned into an ELS Innovator.
>the G-Self would likely just get forced into close quarters and likely get destroyed by a melee focused suit with 6 GN sword bits
Good luck trying to go melee against this.
This week on Reconguista in G! How will Bellri frick you up this week?
Photon torpedoes that aren't even at max power?
Firing an afterimage with mass made of photons?
Condensing photon power into lasers that shoot everywhere?
Copy pasting photons as a shield then throwing it at you?
Turning green and punching the shit out of you with photon fists?
Turning red and shooting you from deep space?
Shooting two funnels at you that explode?
Using those two funnels to trap you in a gravitational tractor beam?
Using photons to reflect your own shots?
Using photons to absorb your shots then explode in photon lasers because TSUKAME PURAIDO!
He might just kick a batter at you and shoot it to make it explode with photon power!
All I know is that Bellri will find a new way to frick you up this week while saying it's your fault that you came to this fight and he's warning you not to keep breaking taboo!
>the G-Self would likely just get forced into close quarters and likely get destroyed by a melee focused suit with 6 GN sword bits
Good luck trying to go melee against this.
[...]
The G-Self Perfect Pack would annihilate all Gundams in 00
I've been watching through the G-Reco movies and just got to the part where Bellri grabs Rockpie's beam saber with the G-Self's bare hands and absorbs the energy from it to power up his own photon shield, and it never occurred to me on my original watching just how insane a feat that is. And that's pre Perfect Pack.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The feed back loop on G-Self gets even more insane when you read the G-Reco mechanics book. That entire image about how the photon torpedoes get reabsorbed by Perfect Pack and recharge the suit with all the matter it consumed after converting it to energy is just fricking crazy.
G-Self Perfect Pack based on that shit alone could just solo the ELS by spamming photon torpedoes and converting every single salvo into more torpedo spam. That shit is actually MLB tier insane based on designer napkin drawings alone.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The ELS would just learn to adapt and not get converted. If they survived a supernova to the face, then they could survive that too.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>solo the ELS
What? The moment Bellri lets out the Photon Torpedoes and kills a few of the ELS with it, that information would be directly sent the ELS Hivemind as a whole. With that knowledge they'll come up with a way to counter it just like how they adapted the ESF forces in the movie. Blast them with a giant laser? ELS creates an energy shield. Attack them with Mobile Suits? ELS creates their own Mobile Suits. The point of their introduction was that humanity had no way of beating them, even VEDA predicting Setsuna and 00-Qan[T] doing it was off the mark since it relied on incomplete information regarding the ELS and their abilities and as well as ignoring the human factor concerning Setsuna's own health and stamina.
That's why Setsuna reaching out to them was the only solution to the conflict. Anything else is just pouring gasoline onto a raging fire.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I guess it depends on how science-y you want to go. There's only the G-Mechanics book to rely on, but if Photon Torpedoes are really doing full matter breakdown conversion into energy particles then the ELS would never be able to actually relay that information after being hit since the energy needed to carry that information would have already been absorbed the photon torpedo during the conversion process.
I don't know what science journal or sci-fi books Tomino and the gang were consuming at the time, but the way the G-Mechanics book describes the photon torpedo is getting dangerously close to black hole and waveform collapse weapons from high end scifi. Considering Venus Globe is designed to be a large form vehicle to transport Earth to a different star they were definitely consuming some wild 80s hard speculative sci-fi on that one.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The ELS are magic psychics in of themselves so that information would likely be sent regardless. Seriously they can create black holes on a whim and help bring people back to life. They can do just about anything.
11 months ago
Anonymous
GN particles and any ELS derivative would have to be literal magic for them to be able to escape total instantaneous energy conversion. That would mean they can go into a black hole and come back out without being affected by anything at all.
It would also mean that GN particles aren't actually particles.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>It would also mean that GN particles aren't actually particles.
What do GN Particles have to do with anything? The ELS were already space psychics well before they encountered humanity.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>It would also mean that GN particles aren't actually particles.
Hence space magic. But that aside, the idea I've seen thrown around by fans is that GN Drives are essentially functioning black holes in themselves because they rely on Baryonic Matter as part of their power source. Any physics expert here who knows their shit can maybe elaborate?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, I hate to break this to you but black holes are specifically non-baryonic matter. It's actually impossible for GN Drives to be black hole drives. They aren't dark matter drives or axion drives either.
Baryons are part of the Fermion classification. Photons are part of the Boson classification and specifically involved in the electromagnetic force.
As an example, Minovsky particles from UC are an exotic fermion as they're a byproduct of He3 fusion which makes them composite fermions.
It's also why it doesn't make sense that OO likes Einstein so much because they don't use anything from Bose-Einstein, it's all based on Fermi-Dirac.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>It's also why it doesn't make sense that OO likes Einstein so much
As far as I know they don't like him for his science, just his philosophy regarding peace hence the quote.
11 months ago
Anonymous
They probably just didn't like Fermi because he's the atom bomb man even though most of their shit relies on his work in show.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The photon torpedos aren't large enough to wipe out an entire MS in one hit, we've seen them in use. Even if it's spammed constantly it's very possible for ELS to survive and relay the information to the hivemind.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Even if they don’t survive it, they’re constantly streaming information between each other and figuring out ways to deal with threats. There would come a point where your just making them a worse problem than they initially were
11 months ago
Anonymous
Case in point: the entire final battle with the ELS in the 00 movie. By the time Setsuna launched, Celestial Being and the ESF were essentially just buying him time to communicate with them.
>Good luck trying to go melee against this.
Good luck trying to break through the Gundam's GN Field too. It won't break outside of pure sustained ordinance, you have beam weapons that matches the frequency of the GN Field itself or you have physical weapons coated in GN Particles.
>which was simulated by a super computer to have been able to single handily stop an alien invasion that the whole combined military forces of Anno Domini's Earth Federation couldn't
To be fair, that's the Full Saber version that has extra weapons, and assuming Setsuna could pilot for a week straight with no breaks. Still, 00Q shits on everything else from Earth.
Not really. Setsuna, Allelujah and Tieria would just sense the incoming Photon Torpedoes through their psychic powers and would adjust their plan of attack accordingly. Setsuna himself again has teleportation, so all he needs is to do is to teleport once behind Bellri and that shit's over before anyone even realizes what happened.
Bellri is quite literally a dipshit compared to the CB Gundam Meisters who are an actual functional combat unit capable of taking on the entire world's military on their own. He ain't really doing shit, any attacks he could do the Quantum Brainwave trio would sense incoming.
Anon the WIDTH of the 00 Qanta's riser sword was calculated to be something like 100km wide and is capable of vaporizing anything that get within hundreds of km of the sword. Keep in mind that's the same sword that put a gash on the armored ELS moon that already adapted to GN particles and was part of the ELS homeworld when it survived a supernova. It could probably cut the earth in half
>It could probably cut the earth in half
I feel cutting the Earth in half would be overestimating its power. The ELS moon was about as big as Earth's moon, so give or take the 00-Qan[T] would need some extra firepower to cut something the size of Earth.
Probably if the ELS-Qan[T] could do it since by that point it's no longer bound by mechanical limitations.
On the note of the 00-Qan[T], it was also taking direct fire from the ELS battleship during that sequence too so it's a tanky bastard on top of everything else. Anything short of a superweapon probably won't even dent it.
That's an understatement. The 00-Qan[T], Zabanya and Harute were originally designed to be literal armada killers each on their own.
00's tech jumps, especially from the second season to the movie, were kinda dumb. I know that Celestial Being was secretly testing their gundams for a decade or so before the events of season 1, but how did one guy (or a bunch of guys I guess if Aeolia got some help) invent a power source nearly two centuries ago outdo three super powers that went through multiple wars (there were at least five solar wars we know of). S1 to S2 wasn't as bad since the Federation and Innovades basically caught up to Celestial Being's tech more or less, but for Celestial Being to somehow go from Seravee, Arios, and Cherudim to actual fleet destroyers in the movie (I don't even think any of them use the 00 Raiser or 00Q's Twin Drive System)? In two years and losing their main funder too.
It wasn’t like the tech wasn’t there, CB pretty much used what it could get from Ribbons and the skittles on top of the concepts they already had. Going from Cherudim to Zabanya makes a lot of sense and Fang/Bit technology had always been a thing, they just had better access to it now on top of having Veda back so they could do a bunch of backdoor shit to get the funding they needed. It never seemed like that odd of a jump to me.
I guess Tieria using Veda to backdoor fund them does explain the monetary part, but the only thing remotely comparable to the Zabanya and co. were the Reborns and 00 Raiser which both ran on the Twin Drive System while the Raphael, Harute, and Zabanya don't even have that system. It would've been more believable to me if there was at least a few extra years of a timeskip instead of just two years between the second season and the movie.
The twin drive system would be overkill. True GN Drives are still perfectly serviceable on their own when the weapon load out it’s given is sufficient. The movie suits was basically just CB seeing how many guns and bits they could put on a suit and still have it functional. Not to mention the Gadelaza being a thing the Federation managed to pump out as well. Tech in 00 in general advances fast when it’s given new things to work with.
00 by a mile. AD has way better tech than CE and AS, and even normalized, neither of the other suits have a good way to shut it down from a distance or answer it up close.
A lot of people in this thread said that Kira will plot armour through but Kira actually has one of the worst win rates of any Gundam lead. He loses most fights where he doesn't have a strong tactical advantage via just having a far superior mobile suit. He'll survive but he's not going to win. Suletta really has nothing going for her, she wins about as much as Setsuna but we never see her fight very experienced pilots. And keep in mind the trouble that cuckboy had with inferior mobile suits piloted by actual trained soldiers, it seems unlikely that she's so much better than the average student.to make up the difference with Setsuna, who I'm not sure actually loses a fight.
Calibarn tries to go understanding mode but fades into dust, leaving just 00 Raiser and strike Sneedom left to fight 00 Raiser wins cause quantizing is OP as frick as well as the GN Drive in general
going by a pure UNDERSTANDING power ranking Kira attempts to UNDERSTAND using Strike Freedom but gets out-UNDERSTANDED by Trans-AM Burst being used, meanwhile Caliburn shits itself in the corner since the only reason it was able to "understand" was because its pilot was literally the sister of its enemy
Strike Freedom doesn't have any UNDERSTANDING powers. It's just a really high performance MS. Although Kira has the faux Newtype sense, it only has combat applications, and the Dragoons in Destiny are actually controlled by a quantum computer or some shit, so you don't even need La Flaga Newtypes anymore.
>win in a fight
Strike Freedom, obviously.
00 Raiser would UNDERSTAND its way to victory, though.
I like the Caliban's aesthetic, but even the IBO Gundams could probably eat it for breakfast.
It's a figure of a sexless artificial humanoid that was depicted as dressing in feminine clothing in one episode of the animated TV series it belongs to.
Tieria otherwise seems to be male-coded, so it really stood out.
Tieria says he's a man. But, yeah. He's a combat type Innovade. So, he doesn't have a dick. I guess he was exempt from physicals and check-ups on the Ptolemy, since you'd think Dr. Moreno would've probably said something.
Combat types have no junk since it's not needed. Infiltration types have sex organs, in case they've gotta screw someone get close to get some intel.
HOW DOES IT WORK
Just really good bolt-ons. I guess he could probably upload his mind into a body with some breasts, but that episode was from before he knew he could do that.
I actually thought G-witch tech started out pretty high end, literally starting on high performance funnel stand-ins.
But then the final upgrade is just a rather mundane MS with a not incredibly remarkable rifle and a okay boosters.
G-Witch tech started higher than most settings (you had the Aerial and Pharact with their bits, the Darilbalde with its drones, the Michalies with its incom-like claw, and bit mobile suits existing), but it never really advanced much considering a two decades old Calibarn was taking on modern day cutting edge bit mobile suits and the Aerial Rebuild. Even the Aerial Rebuild wasn't too impressive of an upgrade other than getting a huge beam weapon (but still less impressive than stuff like the Twin Buster Rifle, Satellite Cannon, Raiser Sword, etc), and it was still defeated by the Darilbalde.
The thing with G-Witch advance tech is that they relied to much on Permet. Especially Aerial and Calibarn.
Meaning if you remove Permet from equation the MS it self is rather luckluster.
eh I'd say Ad Stella's normal MS are pretty up there, even the nobody MS had some neat things going for them like this MS capable of independent flight, but really to get a real jist of things G Witch needs its MSV to release ASAP
They had some neat gimmicks sure but I mean like in terms of their build, suits lose their limbs so quickly and any decent beam can easily destroy them in a few hits. Outside of the gimmicks the actual materials of the suits don’t seem reinforced at all
Most grunt ms can't take beams, but there are MS that do seem to be reinforced like pic related, the issue seems to really lie in that these students don't really know how to fight funnels and a lot of the ms to be fair like Zoworts seem to subscribe to speed over armor.
The thing with G-Witch advance tech is that they relied to much on Permet. Especially Aerial and Calibarn.
Meaning if you remove Permet from equation the MS it self is rather luckluster.
00 Raiser is just on another level, in a battle with two equal pilots I think Caliban could beat Strike Freedom but if it's Suletta vs Kira then I'm giving it to Kira because his plot armour is way stronger.
Calibarn is the equivalent of the 0 Gundam, Duel Gundam, or RX-78-1.
It was more like the Tallgeese if anything, it had incredible performance which could keep up with modern state of the art mobile suits but basically no pilot could handle it. The 0 Gundam, Duel Gundam, and RX-78 became outdated very quickly, with the latter two becoming outdated before the war they were introduced in concluded.
Calibarn is the instant loser and that's not a slight against it - it's not a super suit, it's a 20 year old prototype pulled out of storage because it's immune to the powers of that universes dominant super suit. It's basically like if you pulled a proto Mark 2 out of storage because it couldn't be hijacked by the NTD System. It's only exceptional power doesn't work outside of it's universe.
Freedom goes down next because it's thing is utter dominance over opponents that are technological inferior to it by a generation or more, and it has no counters to 00 Raisers offense or defense which outclass it. It's absolute best case scenario is a stalemate.
The Calibarn is a super suit though, Gundams vastly outclass everything else in that universe. The Aerial itself is just a facelift of the Lfrith, the difference is that Ad Stella doesn't adhere to the rest of the franchises' logic of new suits getting developed overnight and invalidating the previous model because muh monster of the week.
It’s not and I don’t understand where people thinking Aerial was actually trying against it are coming from. Calibarn would have been outclassed by any of the suits on the field at the time, it only son because of Eri not wanting to kill Suletta
Eri was trying to dismember it but only ended up nicking the shoulder.
11 months ago
Anonymous
She easily could have if she wasn’t too afraid of her own power. Is there a reason he never kicked the broom thruster away from Calibarn other than it ending the fight too soon?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Reason you think she even could?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Because Aerial is an incredibly advanced suit and disarming an opponent that many years behind it shouldn’t be that hard of a task?
11 months ago
Anonymous
That's like the smallest target on her to shoot
11 months ago
Anonymous
Why could she not kick it away or have her bits shoot at its hands? It’s a nitpick I’m aware but it just seems really dumb to me if Eri was actually trying to make it so Suletta couldn’t fight.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Rather than purely disabling her, I'm pretty sure Eri was trying to convince her to leave, keeping Suletta around is like the opposite of what she wants and Calibarn can't move without its broom
11 months ago
Anonymous
But Suletta wasn’t going to leave and it’s not like she couldn’t have just pushed her away once she was disarmed. It just seems like an oversight.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Pushed her away where though? QZ was surrounded by enemies. I will say though we don't even get to see what she would've done once she got fed up with Suletta not listening, and thats the only thing I don't like about the episode because the laser ruins that part.
11 months ago
Anonymous
To where her allies could have picked her up and left. Suletta’s stalling only works because Eri doesn’t ever attempt to actually get her out of the way outside of talking to her. For it being the final fight it’s just incredibly anti-climactic and there was no sense of urgency on Eri’s part
11 months ago
Anonymous
>To where her allies could have picked her up and left
Where is that? You mean the people trying to sneak inside or the two other people fighting to their limits outside of QZ?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Eri pushing her to where they were trying to sneak in would have killed 2 birds with one stone. She takes out the threat to QZ and also sends Suletta off. Again, I’m just being nitpicky but there’s no reason Eri should just be fine dismembering or disarming her and leaving her for Prospera to deal with later.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Eri should just be fine dismembering or disarming her
That's what she was trying to do but Suletta was too fast for her and Eri only managed to land a shot on her shoulder once near the end.
>Calibarn would have been outclassed by any of the suits on the field at the time
Did you even watch the series? The Calibarn was easily one of the most advanced suits even 20 years after it was created. Gundams aged like fine wine, because their inherent advantage is the GUND format itself, to the point where Ochs Earth had a storage full of the same Lfrith grunt prototypes from the prologue ready for a war. >b-but the Aerial
Ericht could fully synchronize with the data storm and go all the way to score 8 without any blowback, while Suletta was in constant pain and could barely breathe during the ordeal, being capped at score 5. And that's not even counting how the Aerial had the benefit of being equipped with fully autonomous GUND-BITs housing the souls of dead children plus support from an army of Gundnodes. Suletta didn't even want to hurt Ericht or the other clones either. Even then, getting your shit pushed by another Gundam piloted by an immortal omniscient e-girl is hardly a demerit to the suit itself.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Is that why they had to pussy out of having Lauda fighting Suletta and instead gave us a looney tunes ass chase scene for the final battle of our protagonist?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Lauda wouldn't even be able to enter the data storm surrounding Quiet Zero without either dying or having the suit being taken over by Ericht. He had no business piloting a Gundam and, narratively, the Schwarzette had no reason for existing. It was there just for the toy sales.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>The Calibarn was easily one of the most advanced suits even 20 years after it was created. Gundams aged like fine wine, because their inherent advantage is the GUND format itself, to the point where Ochs Earth had a storage full of the same Lfrith grunt prototypes from the prologue ready for a war.
This, the fact that two supped up Lfrith mass production types utilized by two teenage terrorists gave elite Spacian forces armed with the successor unit to the Beguir Beu shows how powerful the gundam units were despite being over two decades old. The Space Assembly League still deemed the twenty year old Lfrith mass production type capable of taking on the Benerit Group's newest units, which is why they continued to produce them and had a cache of them. >plus support from an army of Gundnodes
Not to mention, Suletta was constantly dodging barrage of beams from multiple Gundnodes at once in the Calibarn.
Setsuna has to be THE worst gundam pilot in terms of piloting skills right? From what I remember from both season's of 00 is that he cant win a fight unless his machine is much better than the opponents.
No, he actually was always pretty good, the issue in S1 is that he’s a child and Exia forces him to fight up and close against veterans with very few range options. S2 his suit was insanely unstable. when it’s a fight in somewhat equal ground in terms of damage the suits have taken, he can eek out a win and he’s also perfectly serviceable piloting grunts against others. The Gundam’s tech advances in S2 fluctuates enough that he’s not always outclassing them and can still manage.
His not the toppest tier, but his high up. Also you need to be a pretty damn good pilot to continue your jihad(without support) in this beat up piece of shit.
Not really no. In terms of piloting then Setsuna's far better than most. A lot of his fighting style is him directly translating his actual CQC skills into the Gundam itself. In the 00 movie, we even see him take down a small squad of GN-XIIIs with nothing but a suited up Flag Fighter that doesn't even have a GN Drive. That's like taking down a squad of F-22s with an F-4 Phantom.
>uses a flag to beat three GN-XIIIs, which were all almost on par with the S1 Gundams, the same Gundams that could take on literally a dozen flags piloted by ace pilots of the Union >THE worst gundam pilot in terms of piloting skills
Not really no. In terms of piloting then Setsuna's far better than most. A lot of his fighting style is him directly translating his actual CQC skills into the Gundam itself. In the 00 movie, we even see him take down a small squad of GN-XIIIs with nothing but a suited up Flag Fighter that doesn't even have a GN Drive. That's like taking down a squad of F-22s with an F-4 Phantom.
You guys are pretending that Setsuna's Flag didn't have GN weapons?
It had one GN sword and maybe a GN beam saber, which allowed it to actually damage the GN-XIIIs, but to take on 3 units that were roughly on par with a third generation gundam with a supped Flag is still impressive when you consider Graham barely managed to drive the Throne Ein off when he got a hold of a GN beam saber from it (when it didn't have support from two other units) and Ali deemed taking on two gundams at once too dangerous in his Enact.
The difference in skill is totally different, though. The Throne pilots are vastly more capable than a bunch of nobodies in surplus GN-XIII units who were going to attempt to murder an inspector just to get away with more corporate slavery.
Bunch of nobodies that have gigantic advantages against an outdated unit that its only upgrade are the thrusters that could barely keeps up.
11 months ago
Anonymous
A bunch of nobodies who couldn't even make use of their gigantic advantages and clearly weren't proper combat pilots.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Nah if they are not proper pilots then they wouldn't be piloting those MS. Also they are clearly terrorists that had planned the operation, so either they are good or not that's up for debate.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah so anyone who boards a MS and anyone plans an operation must be good and there's absolutely no such thing as a bad plan or pilot, I guess.
Setsuna was a fine pilot. The worst is decisively Loran because there's so much shit he just completely failed to pick up about the Turn A and I know there's gonna be some defense coming but you have to remind yourself that the Turn A is a FUTURISTIC AS FRICK MOBILE SUIT. That means it has a built in tutorial for practically every fricking feature and he was too dumb and worthless with the suit to take advantage of them.
He read the manual and knew what certain features were, but for all we know it could be written in a different language and all he can partially understand are the pictures and diagrams. He at least understood the basics like the beam rifle and sabre, the VR helmet, the core fighter mode, etc, but it also seems pretty likely that the suit is best operated by a newtype who can more intuitively interface with the wienerpit to access all its systems.
11 months ago
Anonymous
And because they are nobodies, they should be bad and incompetent? Who sets that rule?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Clearly UC is the only universe that nameless pilots can be competent. Stark Jegan man is a hero. Banzai Kobe Byarlant!
11 months ago
Anonymous
Does the dudes with Dainsleif counts? They don't do much but still crippled Tekkadan.
11 months ago
Anonymous
artillery isn't as hard as engaging opponents in melee. so no
11 months ago
Anonymous
You are acting like we haven’t seen how capable most no name grunts in 00 are. They are constantly putting the Meisters on the backfoot when on equal ground and there are multiple times where we see they use strategies to outwit and out maneuver the Gundams when at a disadvantage. You can say you don’t think Setsuna is a good pilot without sounding like an absolute moron.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Honestly, it's just better to assume OO has capable pilots. It goes to shit in season 2 but so does everything across the board because they made a bad Zeta clone. The thing is that, outside of UC, 00 is probably the only AU that actually legitimately goes into fully developed and trained standing armies on a national, and then near Earth system level.
Season 2, for better or worse, also showed how big a difference technology makes given how there were capable pilots fighting for the anti A-Laws that just stood no chance due to having old type suits instead of GNX lines.
Seed and CE is the universe where you just assume everyone is trash because all grunts exist just to get Kira'd, Athrun'd, or Shinn'd. Sort of like how AGE went really fricking dumb about the general piloting skills from Asemu all the way to the end of Kio.
Stargazer is probably the only time in CE that grunts showed any level of competency.
11 months ago
Anonymous
That’s honestly why that comment kind of pissed me off cause it’s not like 00 always shows the meisters stomping people or the grunts being idiots. Even Ali’s guys in S1 knew when to pull out instead of fighting a losing battle and they made it a point to show how a well formed plan and well trained soldiers could take on the gundams. The beginning of S2 even goes to show that when given equal/better tech, capable grunts can beat the meisters. As an AU it does a pretty good job of making you aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the forces fighting.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The series with the most competent no-name pilots is probably Build Fighters, at least once things get to the international level where even background characters are proven aces. They're shown to use their suits' abilities creatively, and learn from the heroes' gimmicks and adapt to them.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Bro, Build Fighters is e-sports. Chill.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The only no-names that I recall doing much were the initial GN-X pilots recruited by the UN forces, and maybe 1 or 2 conventional MS pilots over the course of S1. I'll give credit where it's due but I'd like to see them do something nice before automatically assuming they're talented. None of the three yellow GN-X pilots did anything warranting interest or praise, they were just average mooks. Again, they were literally assigned to take out what should have been a helpless target, the bar is not necessarily high here.
>They are constantly putting the Meisters on the backfoot when on equal ground
This is generally not the case, and equal ground was extremely rare.
>You can say you don’t think Setsuna is a good pilot without sounding like an absolute moron.
At this point Setsuna is nigh-untouchable, he's one of very, very few people who are actually awakened fully and can sense people and perceive things that average pilots could never see. Go ahead and put words in my mouth though, if that makes you feel better.
>there are multiple times where we see they use strategies to outwit and out maneuver the Gundams
Technically those aren't the pilot's own strategies, those were the orders of commanders from above who were able to see the battlefield on a larger scale that pilots usually don't. This also applied to the Gundam pilots themselves who also employed their own strategic forecaster and planner. They're not braindumb morons who don't know how to act, but really, you don't need to feel personally offended for these troops that are there to do their job and happened to come across one of the few ubermensch living in their time.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The argument was that Setsuna’s feat of taking out the 3 of them in an outdated but supped up flag wasn’t that comendable because they weren’t good pilots despite their suits. All I’m saying is that it’s unfair to say that they’re bad to try and make it seem like Setsuna pulling that off wasn’t impressive. They’re definitely way less experienced than Setsuna and are most certainly average mooks but they’re in better suits than he was and while the initial plan was to just take out a helpless target, it would be overkill to do that in those suits. They were expecting a fight and were threatening a diplomat, they were probably sending the best they had and if S1’s intro is anything to go by, the kinds of people who’d try to kill a diplomat are usually well organized enough to where the only reason they failed is because an unknown force had to come out of nowhere which was exactly the case in this situation, just with the roles reversed in terms of the suits.
It’s still a flag regardless of the weapons and the show makes it a point that, while the True GN Drives are better than the Taus, if they’re up against suits that use the Taus effectively, it’s about even so it’s not like Setsuna was anymore advanced than what Graham at the end of S1 was.
Setsuna was a fine pilot. The worst is decisively Loran because there's so much shit he just completely failed to pick up about the Turn A and I know there's gonna be some defense coming but you have to remind yourself that the Turn A is a FUTURISTIC AS FRICK MOBILE SUIT. That means it has a built in tutorial for practically every fricking feature and he was too dumb and worthless with the suit to take advantage of them.
I mean its the same argument used against Setsuna. The same argument can be used against Amuro too for having the Gundam beating the shit out of Zakus.
What are you even talking about? Loran piloted multiple suits just fine and the Turn-A was literally not functioning properly for half the entire show. It couldn't even activate its own thrusters until the fight with Corin in the underground lava channel.
>Strike freedom loses most of its options if you cut off its wings.
So I'm guessing the the chest cannon, the rail guns, and the beam shields don't exist on the Strike Freedom in this situation?
To begin with the GN Drives are ATTACHED to the 00 Gundam. That means they're shit ton more secure as opposed to the broom stick gun that the Caliban has.
00 would be useless if you hit the gn drive container.
Strike freedom loses most of its options if you cut off its wings.
And your point is..........
.......
..........?
Rather if you take out 00s gn drives means taking out the suit itself.
Here is how stupid Calibarn Broomstick is. Imagine if the optional Gunpods on a fricking fighter aircraft irl was also the main source of thrust. That's how stupid it is.
>a fight?
What fight? This is like those Goku vs Superman arguments where the real answer is that they would be instant bros and go for hotdogs. You've got the non-combat NOPE ray *and* the magic pixie dust UNDERSTANDING machine next to Kira not wanting to fight unless he has to. There wouldn't be a fight.
Or people just want to compare the tech of different universes against each other? Can people not imagine these things without it being some kind of contest about which show is better?
The problem is that there are way too many variables for any of it to even matter.
The only thing you can actually say in this thread is that Caliburn is useless because nobody has Permet so its biggest strength is nullified. After that you've essentially just got like... one of the Woundworts or Hazels at best?
Everyone has shit that shoots beams, shoots bigger beams, has big beam swords, has funnels, etc. There are so few points of common technology that it's just conceptual points of reference that say nothing.
No one knows how minovsky particles affects anyone else. No one knows how GN particles affects anyone else. No one knows if N-Jammers would even work on like 90% of the series.
That's ultimately why these things boil down to just "Raiser teleports and makes asteroid sized beam sword" and everyone just goes "yeah okay." Or "Unicorn turns back time" and everyone goes "I hate Fukui." Or "Turn-A MLBs" and people go "I hate Fukui holy shit it didn't even do that in the show why are we talking about novels that wasn't even in the novel I fricking hate Fukui."
>I like this character more so they win
The thread.
Gundam Musou had Emma mugging Master Asia with a bazooka
Any of these characters can win in the right situation and the discussion is ultimately pointless. Go settle it in exvs
Much more of this thread is "I hate this character more so they win"
There're so many posts that say Kira would win because of his plot armour when Kira actually has one of the worst winrates ever among Gundam leads. The motherfricker has gotten beaten by nameless grunts and loses almost every even fight he gets into. The show stresses that Kira isn't actually a good pilot, he just always has the best machines and a high level of compatibility with his suits, in some cases, being tailored specifically to take advantage of his abilities.
Depends on the pilot and whether or not we're ignoring universe specific tech mechanics.
Equal piloting and Calibarn-Aerial being unable to override, I'd honestly still say that Calibarn-Aerial probably wins since it has more bit/funnel style weapons than Strike Freedom, and the G-Bits are multifunction, serving as offense and defense and independently operated. 00-Raiser, once you remove the plot armor from 00, doesn't even really factor into this IMO, since it's pretty under-armed. Trans-AM is kinda busted, but Calibarn was able to stand on even ground with an actual army entirely focused on it.
So in terms of pure suit to suit performance, it's Calibarn-Aerial, Strike Freedom, 00-Raiser.The one area where the 00-Raiser has an advantage is endurance, with the Twin Drive system giving the suit a functionally unlimited operational time, which is only dependent on the pilot's endurance.
If we're including the pilots in this, then it's Strike-Freedom no questions asked because Kira is absolute bullshit, but Suletta is still a better pilot than Setsuna who basically just skated to victory on the relative performance of the gundams in setting.
TL;DR
Not taking pilots into account: Calibarn-Aerial> Strike Freedom>00-Raiser
Taking Pilots into account:
Strike Freedom>Calibarn-Aerial>00-Raiser.
>completely ignores the bs gn units pull off >Ignores trans-am and teleportation
We get it, you have a big hate boner for 00. But that doesn't ignore the fact the only thing calibarn has going for it is permet hijack, and that's useless against the other two. The only way calibarn can win if it sits back and let sf and 00 duke it and out pick out either. But sulleta isn't that pragmatic to do it.
Watching WfM made me appreciate how they did all the effects back then a lot more. The GN pixie dust isn’t nearly as bad how unreadable most of the effects from the bits in WfM end up making the entire scene. I also miss characters being able to actually take out the bits that were attacking them instead of just dancing around them because they’re invincible.
Calibarn-Aerial and Strike Freedom could both handle trans-am 00-Raiser. The quantum teleportation is a little harder, but honestly still within reason.
>But that doesn't ignore the fact the only thing calibarn has going for it is permet hijack
You do know that the Gund-Bits have way more utility than the Super DRAGOONs right? Being able to have mobile I-Fields that can shoot back is way more useful than being able to stab a dude with a missile. The Calibarn-Aerial is the most heavily armed suit out of the three.
Lol ok moron. I'm sure the mega launcher tier beam cannon and 50% more bits that hit harder than Strike Freedom is totally less fire power. Fricking idiot.
You must not be aware of how either Kira or Setsuna fight if you think Calibarn having bits that can’t fully utilize makes it more well equipped. The issue with the Gund-Bits that because they do everything, there’s not much else the suit has going on so it wouldn’t be that hard for either 00 or SF to force it into a defensive mode for most the fight and then use their other weapons to deal with it. SF would have the easiest time but 00 could run it over quickly enough with a well timed Trans-Am. Calibarn is only well equipped in its universe.
It's the least, actually. You're correct about the i-field funnels having their own utility, but it lags behind in terms of the number of weapon systems.
Aerial literally was about to be torn to shreds by Darilbalde's sword drones and needed to use it's override if it got spooked by that then obviously it would also lose too strike freedoms dragoons with a coordinator piloting
[...]
Youre forgetting that reborns fought a depowered 00 raiser since it just used tran am burst. And setsuna is pretty good at dealing with funnels even when he was still using exia. If 00 can trans am. It will bullshit its way against both.
So i'll have to give it too to 00 for the sheer reason that gn particles are hax tier by itself. Caliburns permet shenanigans wont do shit against the other two and strike freedom can't beam spam someone who can teleport.
moron. Once again calibarn's only at it's best against enemies within it's own universe. And it's up against GN haxicles. It's hard fricked the moment 00 uses trans am
Calibarn would destroy 00 Raiser for one reason only, Eri. We can assume because Calibarn brings the gundbits then the coven will enter the fight with her.
When setsuna tries to use his gn particle understanding hax, he would be shocked to not only see Suletta, but multiple versions of Eri too.The Eri clones would mock and destroy his fragile ego
"LOL Bro thinks he's a Gundam"
"You fight to end fighting? Isn't that a contradiction?"
"Your hair looks stupid."
"You'll never be Gundam. But we are."
Setsuna would stammer out " I am a Gundam. I am a Gundam. I AM A GUNDAM DR CARDO" distracting him long enough for the bits to surround and completely disable 00 by shooting off every limb.
An SRW with Thunderbolt, OO, and G-Witch would be hilarious as frick if Ribbons got his hands on Karla's ReUSE system hijack from the current parts of the Thunderbolt manga. b***h actually figured out how to hijack newtype brainwaves and turn Newtype pilots into bit-pilots.
The 00Q and 00R are interstellar weapons. The 00Q damaged a moon sized alien that tanked a supernova, no other gundam in the mainline franchise even comes close. 00R, while not as powerful, is still within the same realm as the 00Q.
G Gen power level top end is basically just SD turned Real type, Turn-A, OO and its variants, Unicorn, and G-Self Perfect Pack.
I still don't know why they completely overtuned G-Self in two games but they did and it's a monster. I don't even want to know how they'll overtune it next game now that they can use movie changes.
Too many delusional people think Strike Freedom would win when Strike Freedom and Kira only ever fought and won against people they had a technological advantage over or opposing pilots that had a mental breakdown during the middle of their engagement. Probably the most overrated main protagonist Gundam outside of Barbatos.
some practice matches against Lafter technically. And Hashmal was basically a draw, Barbatos was nearly wrecked
He doesn't even really "Lose" the finale, he just dies of blood loss from the Dainsleif barrage before he could finish slaughtering them all. Had he lived for a few more minutes Manface and her squad would have gone down with him
Kira seriously loses a ton of fights anon. He loses his first fricking engagement with another gundam, which I think is his second or third fight in the series. He never beats either of the other leads in a fair fight but has lost to both of them. He actually loses one of his first engagements on the fricking Freedom. He loses to nameless mooks the one time he's forced to sortie without a machine that's two generations superior to everything else on the battlefield.
No, but I think it has a total of three sorties in it in the entire series and actually gets saved by Athrun in the Infinite Justice.
Kira is canonically a shitty pilot who's carried by top grade suits designed to take advantage of his programming abilities. The Freedom series lets him run targeting macros but he doesn't even perform well against grunt suits when he gets taken into close quarters.
Suletta has a shot at victory but she has to shoot them both down quickly since Calibarn is literally eating her life away the longer she uses it. Makes me wonder if SRW will put her back in Aerial or use fanfiction to put Eri inside Calibarn
Trans-am and GN tech are just too good, can't see the others putting up a fight, that is... putting aside their pilots.
Calibarn is a literal non-starter with non permet using machines.
As long as people are able to watch episodes of Destiny, it will never stop. Every year, more and more people will see Kira literally fricking die only to return three episodes later with no visible issues. It can't be stopped.
>I wonder if we'll ever reach a day where Jesus Yamato posting finally dies out.
I'm always fascinated by the Jesus Yamato posting because Setsuna quite literally survived two instances of a beam saber going through his MS too. He also literally became Jesus after the 00 movie.
Then there's Heero who was also able to survive the Wing Gundam exploding around him after he self detonated it.
Strike Freedom is built for absolute pure speed and agility. They specs say that SF has reduced armor in order to save on weight and be more flexible. The joints and inner skeleton have phase shift to handle the added stress of the suit being so fast. It also has Wings of Light and funnels.
00 Raiser is an all rounder with some powerful attacks. It can also hit very hard and is dangerous with its GN Swords. But it's not as fast as Strike Freedom. 00 Raiser would need to use Trans-am to keep with Strike Freedom using Wings of Light.
The Caliburn or whatever isn't a big factor. It can snipe suits with its powerful beam and is somewhat fast. But it's nothing special and gets hit in the show. It would die first.
It's insanely fast in its own setting; most CE technology is pretty tame relative to other settings though, and the units in AC, AD and PD at the very least are almost certainly an order of magnitude faster in general because they are noted to cross interplanetary distances in relatively short times, as compared to the units in SEED mostly still taking a week or so just to travel between Lagrange Points, Stargazer aside.
00 Raiser is more powerful with its Raiser beam sword. But it's not as fast as Freedom with Wings of Light activated. Plus Kira is a Newtype so he can predict Setsuna's attacks. If the battle stays long range then 00 Raiser loses because Freedom will slowly peck at 00 Raiser's defenses until something breaks.
00R very likely faster than the Strike Freedom, Strike Freedom isn't even the fastest in its own verse, that honor goes to the Destiny which also isn't so fast that the Justice and Legend can't tag it
>Strike Freedom isn't even the fastest in its own verse, that honor goes to the Destiny
I love how you typed those words but the exact opposite of what you wrote is the truth.
The Destiny Gundam? OFFICIAL sources say it has >UNMATCHED ACCELERATION
?t=55
As for the Strike Freedom
Speed isn't even even mentionable. It's not its strong suit. The Strike Freedom being fast is just headcanon based on false assumptions that having voiture lumiere makes it fast.
Strike Freedom is only fast if you don't pay attention to anything actually said in show or materials. Unfortunately Seed Destiny gives us enough details that only sound fast to uneducated people, but are actually slower than modern space technologies.
Strike Freedom is too much for 00 Raiser. A better fight would be Destiny Gundam VS 00 Raiser. The suits are more equal. Both are close combat specialists, and it would definitely be a close fight.
Are you people forgetting 00 has frickhuge beam attacks?
>completely ignores the bs gn units pull off >Ignores trans-am and teleportation
We get it, you have a big hate boner for 00. But that doesn't ignore the fact the only thing calibarn has going for it is permet hijack, and that's useless against the other two. The only way calibarn can win if it sits back and let sf and 00 duke it and out pick out either. But sulleta isn't that pragmatic to do it.
also lol trans am = ded SF
Does Mikazuki lose any fights except at the finale?
His first battle against lafter and kimaris. Tbf the latter is because barbatos cannot get fixed prior to that sortie. But kimaris highlights mikas weakness against fast opponents.
>Are you people forgetting 00 has frickhuge beam attacks?
>completely ignores the bs gn units pull off >Ignores trans-am and teleportation
We get it, you have a big hate boner for 00. But that doesn't ignore the fact the only thing calibarn has going for it is permet hijack, and that's useless against the other two. The only way calibarn can win if it sits back and let sf and 00 duke it and out pick out either. But sulleta isn't that pragmatic to do it.
Beam shields in Seed block some pretty huge attacks.
>also lol trans am = ded SF
Trans-am powers up beam weapons, but it's about equal to Wings of Light in terms of speed. Both systems make after images so they are comparable.
Strike Freedom is too much for 00 Raiser. A better fight would be Destiny Gundam VS 00 Raiser. The suits are more equal. Both are close combat specialists, and it would definitely be a close fight.
>A better fight would be Destiny Gundam VS 00 Raiser. The suits are more equal. Both are close combat specialists, and it would definitely be a close fight.
Agreed. Both suits create after images while going full speed. So it would be interesting to watch.
>Pic related would be a much more enjoyable & close fight >post AWOT gundam
It's a complete rinse. Late game Gundams from 00 are so fricking overpowered.
The Exia R4 is still an Exia with some prototype parts for the 00Q & a GN Drive Tau. It is post AWOT but it belongs somewhere between S2 & AWOT in power scaling at full tilt. Its a fairer fight than the Strike Freedom vs 00 Raiser though. The Brave Commander Type would be a white wash I think.
With the canon pilots 00R takes it. The real argument is Suletta v Kira. Suletta proved herself to be a fricking champion at dodging beamspam, but Kira is Jesus Yamato.
00Raiser vs Destiny Gundam is a much better fight. Strike Freedom is just too fast and Kira loves to fight at a distance which is the opposite of Setsuna.
>Strike Freedom is super fast!
Where? Strike Freedom isn't shown to be faster than Destiny or even Legend. Kira doesn't beat Rey due to a speed blitz. He shoots down his dragoons and then full bursts him when he stops moving.
00 is easily the series with the best display of speed in the franchise outside of specific instances like Tallgeese, FX using burst mode and that one melee suit in X. 00 has instances of the Raiser lapping those GN-X around that asteroid. Trans-Am visibly making the suits faster and people reacting to it. Destiny has better instances of speed than Strike Freedom. The best speed feat Kira has is when the Freedom had so much power that it could tow another suit and still advance past others.
>00 has instances of the Raiser lapping those GN-X around that asteroid
I was thinking about that too, people are really underselling how fast the 00 Raiser is even outside of trans-am.
I can just hear the GN Particle sound effect. It's so clean. One of the best in the franchise with the newtype flash, Zeta's beam rifle and the zero system.
>00 has instances of the Raiser lapping those GN-X around that asteroid
I was thinking about that too, people are really underselling how fast the 00 Raiser is even outside of trans-am.
Sigh. Both of you have memory problems.
The Celestial Being Gundams from Season 1 were not particularly fast. Other mass production suits from other nations were still able to hit them, and keep up with them.
What made Season 1 CB Gundams powerful were their GN drives. It gave the suits GN beams, messed with everyones' sensors and scanners, and lastly gave the CB Gundams a huge defensive boost to their armor. They could tank physical rounds from other suits all day because of GN armor.
But they were NOT particularly faster than other nations' military suits during Season 1. If anything, 00 Raiser is just barely matching what Seed Gundams could already do. Seed Gundams were built around high speed and dogfighting. They move like fighter jets. 00 Gundams are playing catch up in terms of speed compared to Seed. Rewatch Season 1 of 00 Gundam and you will know Im right.
Asspulls and shit story automatically deducts you points. Also it never fought anything stronger than it. and specs alone. It's mogged by 00R in everyway
Talliy is still 00 > SF > Calibarn. Seedgays need to prop their evidence next time to avoid this embarrassment
Setsuna wins because his got experience fighting against enemies above his tier constantly. Meanwhile Kira had to stock footage and asspull his way out of trouble, and he was lucky as frick there were rau tier enemies at destiny.
[...]
reminder that he lost to someone who can actually think.
Destiny was an overall downgrage to shin since his combat style is all about blindsighting his opponents with module spam. Something luna never manage to emulate,
Again kira gets hard carried by hard writing in the show that even SRW shits on him for it
You layed examples and I answered them thoroughly. And 00R still stomps anything in sneed.
>muh SAO >muh SRW
What's wrong with this autist(s)?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>muh srw
11 months ago
Anonymous
Discussing SRW is one thing, having a hateboner for SEED and constantly bringing up SRW for "gotchas" against it is some autistic schizo behavior.
11 months ago
Anonymous
compare to propping bad headcannons, pointing how flawed GSD is acceptable in exchange.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Just because you don't LIKE Seed doesn't make it not canon. Kira is the best pilot in Seed. That's the reality. Cope.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Kira is the best pilot in Seed
that's a pretty low bar
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Kira is the best pilot in Seed.
Have the aimbot/ai do all the work for him isn't piloting. Because if that counts, Lowe is easily the best pilot in Seed.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Kira is the best pilot in Seed
that's a pretty low bar
>kira is the best pilot in seed
COUGH
11 months ago
Anonymous
You're just as pathetic as the people you criticize, get a grip.
>Why are you talking about S1 when this is a discussion about a suit in S2?
Did you read the post? Because S1 CB suits were way below speed standards compared Seed (even S1 Seed). S2 CB suits are just barely in the same speed class for weaker S2 seed suits. You are acting amazed at 00 Raiser flying around a small Asteroid when Strike Freedom is zipping around entire colonies and huge asteroids. CB suits aren't that fast without Trans-am. Strike Freedom could probably wipe the floor of every CB and Innovade suit. 00 Raiser is the only one that maybe could hang in there for a while. But still lose against SF.
People have posted scenes of 00 suits moving fast and all you can do is go, "nuh un!" You haven't posted a single video of Strike Freedom outperforming anything.
Oh you’re just being obtuse then. S2 suits compared to S1 isn’t just slightly better, they’re far more tuned up than S1 and even then S1 suits weren’t slow at all. SF is fast that’s undeniable but you’re acting like 00 suits, specifically 00 Raiser would be left in the dust when 00 suits have the benefit of trans-am on top of just having really good speed outside of it as shown already.
>00 Raiser would be left in the dust when 00 suits have the benefit of trans-am on top of just having really good speed outside of it as shown already.
00 Raiser is the only CB suit that wouldn't be left in the dust completely but it would still be lagging. And Setsuna wouldn't risk using Trans-am unless he was sure he could finish the fight. Trans-am drains your suit hard and leaves it weaker then normal for a period of time. Like others have said....Destiny Gundam is a better match for 00R.
11 months ago
Anonymous
You’re acting like Arios isn’t also a suit built for speed or like it’s that far outmatched when it isn’t. This conversation honestly deals more with how fast the grunts are in each universe for an actual proper comparison cause it really seems like you’re underestimating how fast 00R actually is, both inside and outside of trans-am.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>You’re acting like Arios isn’t also a suit built for speed or like it’s that far outmatched when it isn’t.
Arios was a glorified battery for most of Season 2. It spent most of its time in the hangar sharing Trans-am with the Ptolemy.
11 months ago
Anonymous
And when it’s in action it’s incredibly fast. There’s no need to be this stubborn about it. Both aus have around the same speed capability it’s not that hard to admit.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Arios isn’t also a suit built for speed
NTA but I question whether Arios could even beat Savior Gundam.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>You’re acting like Arios isn’t also a suit built for speed or like it’s that far outmatched when it isn’t.
At least post the full quote you disingenuous shit.
Arios may be fast but its way too underpowered and underequipped to beat Strike Freedom. No weapon it has could even penetrate Strike Freedom's beam shield.
this was about 00s2 suits being faster than ce suits
11 months ago
Anonymous
>this was about 00s2 suits being faster than ce suits
You are mistaken then. Arios is a S2 suit. Kyrios is the S1 suit.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Arios may be fast but its way too underpowered and underequipped to beat Strike Freedom. No weapon it has could even penetrate Strike Freedom's beam shield.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I’m not saying it can beat strike freedom, this is about speed anon
11 months ago
Anonymous
Outmaneuvering a slower mobile suit and attacking it's blind spot is something that Arios is capable of doing. SEED's beam shields aren't invincible. Can be bypassed by physical weapons or outright disabled by concentrated fire. Never mind SEED's pathetic standard for mobile suit armor. 00 mobile suits can actually tank beam projectiles.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>SEED's beam shields aren't invincible. Can be bypassed by physical weapons or outright disabled by concentrated fire
Not by anything Arios has.
See
Beam Shield blocking the Destroy's main cannons.
Also remember, the Akatsuki could block the Minerva's Positron cannon without a beam shield.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Didn't Legend break Strike Freedom's shields?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>SEED's beam shields aren't invincible. Can be bypassed by physical weapons or outright disabled by concentrated fire.
You are thinking of GN fields. Those have been broken and disabled.
>Never mind SEED's pathetic standard for mobile suit armor. 00 mobile suits can actually tank beam projectiles.
Pathetic? It's called Phase Shift armor. One of the best Armors in the entire Gundam franchise.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>armor that defends well against solid attacks >In a setting where beam is practically everywhere
Nanolaminate and e-carbon are currently the strongest armors in the game since the suits with them are actually shown taking a decent amount of beating from beam shots. Meanwhile everything in seed is made out of cardboard and explosives
>Other mass production suits from other nations were still able to hit them, and keep up with them.
Keep up? No, not really. Graham had to get an overtuned, upgraded Flag with the G-dampeners reduced to even try to keep up with the Gundams, and he barely bested the Thrones which were GN-X tier suits piloted by lab monkeys. There were certain scenarios in which grunts were able to corner them or fight them in close range but that's it
I have to agree. I never got the impression Celestial Being had really fast Gundams. The GN drives were special because of unlimited power and no one could detect them.
00Raiser vs Destiny Gundam is a much better fight. Strike Freedom is just too fast and Kira loves to fight at a distance which is the opposite of Setsuna.
being fast is moot considering trans-am is a thing, and again teleportation. Destiny would get mogged even harder than sf, especially if were going to have anime shin piloting it.
The Eternal ship was surrounded by a fleet of ships and around 30 Goufs and Zakus. Kira was forced to launch INTO the group of Goufs. They didn't magically catch up to Strike Freedom. They were already surrounding the Eternal and the launch ramp. Kira had to launch into them and break out of the encirclement. Later when they try to hit SF again, they couldn't even touch Kira. SF single handedly then destroys the entire fleet.
The big weakness of 00 Raiser that many of you are forgetting is that if the Raiser backpack itself gets damaged then the Twin Drives stop working. Kira doesn't even need to damage the main 00 Gundam suit. He only needs to target the Raiser backpack and damage it enough for it to stop functioning. Remember 0 Raiser is a patchwork to make 00 Gundam work properly.
What are you even talking about. People admitted that 00R has more raw firepower. But most people are also saying that Strike Freedom is faster on average (without 00R using Trans-am) and is more agile. You can't seem to accept that.
No, most people actually looked at the shots provided and concluded that they’re pretty much on par with each other. Kira isn’t going to blow past Setsuna but Setsuna isn’t going to do so either.
>00 side provides examples and scenes to back up their claims >SF side is just vague speculations
SF never fought anything stronger than it. Kira lost a lot of fights. 00 handles itself well even before raiser. Also one killed shit in a grunt suit while the other lost to grunts suits
So far most on the thread heavily favors 00. Meanwhile caliburn is completely forgotten
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Meanwhile caliburn is completely forgotten
Suletta is dexmaxxed and dodges everything but dies of gund aids mid-fight.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>dodges everything
Eri was trying to disable her hence aerial wasn't going fire everything at sulleta. And even then she still got hit.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>00 handles itself well even before raiser.
It literally explodes when it tries to Trans-am. It can't handle fighting custom A-heads (custom grunt suits). The entire lore is that the suit can't properly use the Twin drive without the Raiser to stabilize it
11 months ago
Anonymous
It can’t properly use it but despite that, even when it’s running at the safest levels possible before raiser it’s still a pretty capable suit. Setsuna just kept getting into scuffles where he couldn’t afford to play it that safe and fried the suit out of fear for his life. It can take on grunts but when it comes to aces then the limits placed on it before 0 Raiser are too much to work with.
No, most people actually looked at the shots provided and concluded that they’re pretty much on par with each other. Kira isn’t going to blow past Setsuna but Setsuna isn’t going to do so either.
As oppose to seedgays going muh Kira and muh beam shields? Legend with concentrated fire from his beam rifle and bits were sufficient in overpowering and disabling Strike Freedom's beam shield. An anti-ship sword or any physical weapon can bypass the beam shield and hit the target behind it. Strike Freedom isn't even that mobile nor agile if it couldn't avoid Legend's beam projectiles under the Earth's atmosphere. Had to deploy the beam shield in an attempt to block Legend's beam projectiles instead of attempting to evade it.
You’re saying that as if Setsuna would just sit there and let him? 0 Raiser isn’t exactly an easy target and it may as well be like aiming for the main suit
That was after Setsuna had been thoroughly exhausted by an onslaught. That wouldn’t be the case in a dogfight like this. The conditions are the pilots and suits at their best so Setsuna wouldn’t let that happen, especially with Saji on board.
>He tore the Raiser backpack apart and stole one of the GN drives.
He did that in a cross exchange when the 00 was currently totaling his suit, and he was only able to do that because Reborn's arms can bend backwards.
Reminder that based on animation the RX78-2 Thunderbolt gay moves faster than Strike Freedom.
Strike Freedom can't even compare to end of the OYW suits. Pitiful.
00R is built to be a multi-purpose power suit. A little bit of everything. With a very dangerous close range blade and the huge Raiser energy sword. In fighter terms it's a multi-role fighter like an F-35. Strike Freedom is built for pure top speed, agility, and instant response time. The inner frame had to be enhanced with phase shift armor just to keep up. In Fighter Terms it's an F-22 Raptor. It's built to take out other mobile suits and not get hit. Plus Kira is also genetically modified on the DNA level to be the perfect coordinator and he's also a Newtype. In a head to head battle I gotta give it to Strike Freedom. Setsuna struggled to beat Ribbons and needed help from the mothership and Tieria hacking Ribbons Gundam.
meanwhile SF never fought anything stronger than it in the series and still struggles against a nerfed providence and was saved by bad writing
Didn't Fukada make the stock footage canon to explain how Shinn defeated the Freedom?
>Setsuna struggled to beat Ribbons
how many times are we going to go through this shit?
[...]
Youre forgetting that reborns fought a depowered 00 raiser since it just used tran am burst. And setsuna is pretty good at dealing with funnels even when he was still using exia. If 00 can trans am. It will bullshit its way against both.
So i'll have to give it too to 00 for the sheer reason that gn particles are hax tier by itself. Caliburns permet shenanigans wont do shit against the other two and strike freedom can't beam spam someone who can teleport.
>You are forgetting that 00 Raiser was losing against Reborn's Gundam and had the Ptolemy had to shoot smoke screen
00 Raiser was damaged fighting Reborn and 2 innovades
That was after Setsuna had been thoroughly exhausted by an onslaught. That wouldn’t be the case in a dogfight like this. The conditions are the pilots and suits at their best so Setsuna wouldn’t let that happen, especially with Saji on board.
Since this thread is almost dead the tallies can basically conclude to 00R > SF > Calibarn
Why are you forgetting that Setsuna is an Innovator and discounting the fact that the 00R has a mode it could easily use to close the distance and get close enough to put SF out of its comfort zone? You haven’t watched 00 if you don’t understand why he struggled against Ribbons, the person who planned his entire assault to tire out everyone before he stepped in.
>still wins despite being out gunned and underarmed
Setsuna's problem is he has shit luck getting jumped by strong opponents after going through a hard battle. A scenario Kira NEVER went through.
i'll give you early seed where he keeps getting runned with zaft gundams. But near the end. He gets paired with athrun whenever they fight the druggie trio.
No idea about the Gwitch suit. But between 00R and SF I give 55/45 odds in favor of SF. Setsuna has trouble dealing with funnel spam. Plus Setsuna got captured by a freaking electro net a couple times. That's some embarrassing stuff.
>Setsuna has trouble dealing with funnel spam
He not only can dodge as well as accurately take out funnels for days but can dodge curved beam spam too.
Hell even back when he was in Exia he could nail Zwei's fangs by throwing beam sabers and a sword.
>Hell even back when he was in Exia he could nail Zwei's fangs by throwing beam sabers and a sword
You are such a little liar. Exia was saved by Virtue shooting down fangs that Setsuna missed. This is why no one agrees with you.
>Virtue shooting down fangs that Setsuna missed
Setsuna didn't miss them, Michael didn't launch them. And it wasn't like Setsuna had his back to a wall either, given how he just took out 6 funnels with zero issue, there's nothing indicating he couldn't just turn around and take out the 2 in reserve. Regardless, does this look like "trouble with funnel spam" to you?
>there's nothing indicating he couldn't just turn around and take out the 2 in reserve.
Wow this is some serious cope.
>Regardless, does this look like "trouble with funnel spam" to you?
It looks like Exia was about to get hit in the back and was saved by Virtue (that you conveniently left out).
>he took out 6 fangs without missing a beat, disproving my point that he can't deal with funnels? >I'll just ignore that and focus on the gank attack
This is why powerlevel wankery is so moronic.
Setsuna missed 2 obvious fangs still mounted on the Throne. You can see them clearly still mounted on the suit from the outside. Exia had to be protected by Virtue Gundam.
>you can see them clearly
We can because we're the audience and the angle zoomed in close on his thighs. Setsuna's looking at this.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Are you intentionally trolling? You must be.
They've examined the Throne suits in detail by this point in this story. This isn't the first time Setsuna has seen their suits either.
You are either trolling, or you've forgotten the show already. Almost Everytime you make a post, several anons correct you and you end up having to take back your words or dance around trying avoid admitting you were wrong.
11 months ago
Anonymous
This isn't even good shitposting. The thread hit bump limit a long time ago.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I noticed whenever you are backed into a corner you just copy the insults used against you and call others shit posters. You get called a 00 shitposter and you just copy the insult. This is pathetic.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not even the one arguing with you, dumbass.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>I'm not even the one arguing with you, dumbass.
Post the (you) screenshot within 2 minutes of this post. Or I'll assume you are lying, or attempting to use Photoshop.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I'll do it for him, the one you were arguing with, not the one you're replying to right now.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Stop arguing with the 00gay.
He's just going to switch between his mobile phone and computer to fake it.
>2 obvious fangs
I swear this is one guy arguing in favor of shit and shitposting.
11 months ago
Anonymous
It is, he keeps trying a narrative that "everyone is against you" to try and disguise it. Everyone being, at most, 2 people in the event it's not some lunatic seedgay samegayging.
11 months ago
Anonymous
It is, he keeps trying a narrative that "everyone is against you" to try and disguise it. Everyone being, at most, 2 people in the event it's not some lunatic seedgay samegayging.
>you can see them clearly
We can because we're the audience and the angle zoomed in close on his thighs. Setsuna's looking at this.
All your posts are full of half truths and hidden lies. You try to pretend Setsuna is some funnel destroying expert, but leave out entire sections that go against what you say. We all saw 00 Gundam. You aren't going to get away with lying to us. This is why no one acknowledges your interpretation. You jump from one extreme to another, and you lie.
Dunno why you gays keep making Setsuna fight Kira. It's a terrible match up for Setsuna. Kira loves long range battles. Setsuna is a close range specialist. A better match up would be Shinn or Athrun.
he's already fought two range heavy opponents and did well against them, even winning the former. and 00R isn't lacking in range options. The problem is seedgays heavily discounting GN hax.
Aww, that's adorable. Did anyone else catch that flub?
The average Setsunatard's tactics involve shuffling events around in order to confuse people with false positives.
Example: S1 Setsuna is better than Kira because Movie Setsuna can kill a Zaku equivalent while using a S1 grunt.
This while completely neglecting to mention the Flag is specially modified and upgrade by Ian Vashti + Celestial Being engineers. Not GN no, but do you really think an idiot like Setuna who only survived S1 because he was piloting a super machine against technologically inferior MS could survive if the situation was reverse? He's not Graham Aker remember?
Flag only has gn sword and smoke chaffs. It litterally depends on the pilot gitting gud to do shit
And yes. He still got shit done with badly damaged exia till the start of s2.
Now I dont see kira ever getting far without freedom. He got his ass horribly kicked in a strike
You guys really can only use S1 Setsuna in this argument. Did you only watch the first season of 00? I don’t blame you if so but you shouldn’t talk about 00R and Setsuna in it if that’s the case.
Are you forgetting that Setsuna is a nut for throwing his swords at his opponents on top of having guns and not being too outmatched in ranged battles? I’m not even saying Setsuna would win in the end but come on now, he’s had plenty of battles with ranged opponents where he made an effort to close the distance. The problem with this conversation is acting like Setsuna just monkeys his way into his enemies instead of having a strategy which he usually does near the end of S2
00R can easily speed blitz SF and end before Kira knew what hit him. SF too slow for 00R and Kira have trouble against skilled pilots in mobile suits with comparable or superior performance than his mobile suit. Easy win for 00R and Setsuna.
No one is even saying Setsuna would kick Kira’s ass, everyone is just pointing out how stupid it is to think Setsuna can’t use strategies or abilities against him just cause. This entire conversation has just been someone implying Setsuna would be a sitting duck or unable to do something he’s clearly shown to be able to do.
> No one is even saying Setsuna would kick Kira’s ass
I haven't been saying it, but I do think that it's true since you've brought it up. Less because I think Setsuna is a particularly great pilot though, and more because I think Kira is kind of a particularly bad pilot who coasts on overwhelmingly strong units relative to his competition, and because the Strike Freedom isn't actually that strong or fast outside it's setting. Also because Kira isn't the only one with plot armor once you match him against other protagonists.
>Majority of the people agree that Setsuna is a better pilot than Kira and 00 Raiser is a faster and more powerful mobile suit than Stroke Freedom. >Majority of the people agree >Majority
No "we" don't. You can literally count the posts supporting Kira and Strike Freedom in this thread. The majority of posts support Kira or say Strike Freedom would win in the end.
Honestly it’s not one way or the other, it’s relatively even between the two of them both in people who think one would win over the other and in terms of what most people are saying. Setsuna deals with funnel spam just fine and the speed difference is negligible. In the end it comes down to who can wear down the other first.
if you read the first few post you'll get that impression. But by the middle and the latter parts of the threads. You'll see more in favor with 00, plus most pro 00 posts are backed with evidence. webm count alone justifies this notion
>if you read the first few post you'll get that impression
There is no impression. I counted the posts. Strike Freedom is the majority by a fair margin.
>webm count alone justifies this notion
From what I can see half of them are unrelated webms. And the other half are webms where they are taken out of context or edit out parts. That's not evidence. That's spam.
Because we actually use evidence shown on screen. Not your hypothetical scenario in your head where Setsuna is somehow a perfect pilot. He isn't.
In the show, characters point out that Setsuna's piloting scores aren't that good, and they wonder why he was even chosen as a pilot. They even say that he's relying on Exia's technological advantage to win fights and that he lacks piloting skill. We find out he wasn't even supposed to be chosen as a pilot.
And you keep using S1 Setsuna as an example when we’re talking about end of S2 00R Setsuna who has spent a few years needing to rely on his skills and strategies as a pilot to evade A-Laws and Federation capture. Why do you need to keep using the obviously inexperienced Setsuna to make your argument? No one thinks S2 Setsuna is perfect either but the thread has shown scenes where he makes it clear he’s become a better pilot and strategizer.
Are people going on about Strike Freedom's speed because it has Voiture Lumiere and Stargazer is the fastest CE mobile suit?
Stargazer's VL is a solar sail that gives very little thrust compared to conventional engines. It has the highest top speed because a sail has near-zero power consumption and in space you can just keep accelerating forever.
SF's version works completely differently, emitting the light directly as thrust.
The thing is that Kira is the strongest pilot in the entire Seedverse. He is simply that good. He's presented as DNA perfect. It's in his blood to be the best, and Kira learns skills in fraction of the time it would take others. And he's much better than others when he does learn the same skills. By the end of Seed Destiny, Kira is an absolute monster. He can't even get scratched by the best pilots ZAFT has available. Strike Freedom isn't even damaged by the end of show. Some people hate it and think it's Absurd, but that's what the Seed director wants. Kira is perfect.
By contrast, Setsuna isn't the strongest pilot in his own universe. He's not even an average pilot. He's very weak and relies on his suits to carry him hard. There are people much better than him. What makes Setsuna special is that he's DETERMINED and won't give up. It's his main character trait. He believes in helping humanity. Setsuna is not even close being a perfect pilot, but he won't be tempted by evil like Ribbons or other characters. They try to tempt him to change sides several times, but he would rather die than become evil. By the end of the show he does improve in skill, but Setsuna still isn't the best. It's his friends and comrades who believe in him that support him. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is missing the entire point of Setsuna's character. He's purposely not the best. The director wanted a flawed human being.
I like Setsuna as a character more. He's more interesting to me, and has a tragic backstory that explains who he is and why he does what he does. But Kira on paper is a much better pilot. I don't like Kira, but even I admit he is the perfect pilot. That's just how it is for him. Setsuna is a better character but Kira is a much better pilot.
We aren’t talking about who’s a better pilot on paper and Setsuna doesn’t have to be the best overall when he’s consistently competing with them where even other meisters wouldn’t have been able to do as much. In practice, Setsuna by the end of S2 is incredibly versatile and he knows how to rely only on his skills and strategies because that’s what he had to do to continue his interventions for the 4 years in between S1 and S2 where the tech was constantly working against him and his suit was busted up. Kira can be a perfect pilot on paper but in terms of actual combat ability and prowess, Setsuna’s experience coupled with his suits give him an edge that, at the very least, would mean he’s on the same level as Kira for whom it comes effortlessly.
The director’s intention was to show how Setsuna grew both as a person and how he was starting to grow as an innovator. For his ideals he had to become a contradiction. He loves peace but he’s an excellent fighter and his determination extends both to his wish for communication and his wish to rid the world of things that corrupt it. Setsuna isn’t the best and I never said he was, I simply want it to be know that Setsuna does whatever he can to make sure he can live and continue to protect the ideal world he wishes for which includes learning how to strategize as a pilot and take out the people who get in his way with no intention of talking or stepping down.
Setsuna wins because his got experience fighting against enemies above his tier constantly. Meanwhile Kira had to stock footage and asspull his way out of trouble, and he was lucky as frick there were rau tier enemies at destiny.
>Setsuna wins because his got experience fighting against enemies above his tier constantly. Meanwhile Kira had to stock footage and asspull his way out of trouble, and he was lucky as frick there were rau tier enemies at destiny.
You say that but for most of Season 1 Setsuna piloted a mobile suit 3 generations ahead of everything else. He was being carried by the performance of Exia, how else was he able to beat pilots with decades of experience above him? The first time he fought a peer was when Ali got Throne Zwei and he was losing BADLY. The only reason he survived that was because Alejandro just COINCIDENTALLY decide to kill Aeolia at around the exact time, activating Trans-Am and giving Setsuna his I WIN button.
Its only in Season 2 where Setsuna is seriously challenged regularly, and even then he keeps using his automatic I WIN button whenever he nearly loses. Its only when Innovades start attacking that Trans-Am loses its automatic I WIN value, but almost immediately after he gets the 0-Riser to keep his technological advantage. Finally it was only when Masurao appeared when he realized the enemy will get their own I WIN button too that he really needed to step up.
>Virtue shooting down fangs that Setsuna missed
Setsuna didn't miss them, Michael didn't launch them. And it wasn't like Setsuna had his back to a wall either, given how he just took out 6 funnels with zero issue, there's nothing indicating he couldn't just turn around and take out the 2 in reserve. Regardless, does this look like "trouble with funnel spam" to you?
even before that he was doing well 1v3, its 2v3 where the odds are greatly changed to his favor. trinity's were the shit pilots carried by strong suit. Now factor in GNX and alejandro and the exia was still intact throughout the fight.
Setsuna's main problem will be his always going to get jumped by strong opponents after going through a hard battle
also I like to give credit to 00 grunts for not being complete shit in contrast to their seed counterparts who exist to be background fodder.
>[citation needed]
1. You can't just say "Citation needed" whenever you disagree with someone. That's not what the phrase means.
2. It's not the number of webm that matters. It's the quality of webms and evidence. Everytime you posted a webm someone responded and explained why you were mistaken. I agree for the most part. So there's no need for me to say anything.
For example, you made a claim that beam shields can be broken in Seed. Then someone replied that no beam shield was ever broken in Seed and posted Destiny tanking Destroy Gundam's massive energy blast. Then you ignored the post and didn't say anything. Half of this thread is just you making these claims and getting corrected by others. Then you make another random claim and repeat the cycle.
Just say you think Kira is the best and can’t be beaten and leave it at that. When you’re this blinded by your own bias that you can’t even properly theorize how a fun hypothetical fight could don’t actually care about the fight, just making your protag look better than the others.
Yes it is. The burder of proof is on you. And you seedgays consistently fail at providing evidence.
GSD d is a shittly written show. Mean it's also inconsistent as frick. Here's a scene where freedom can't tank blast from legend
The thing is that Kira is the strongest pilot in the entire Seedverse. He is simply that good. He's presented as DNA perfect. It's in his blood to be the best, and Kira learns skills in fraction of the time it would take others. And he's much better than others when he does learn the same skills. By the end of Seed Destiny, Kira is an absolute monster. He can't even get scratched by the best pilots ZAFT has available. Strike Freedom isn't even damaged by the end of show. Some people hate it and think it's Absurd, but that's what the Seed director wants. Kira is perfect.
By contrast, Setsuna isn't the strongest pilot in his own universe. He's not even an average pilot. He's very weak and relies on his suits to carry him hard. There are people much better than him. What makes Setsuna special is that he's DETERMINED and won't give up. It's his main character trait. He believes in helping humanity. Setsuna is not even close being a perfect pilot, but he won't be tempted by evil like Ribbons or other characters. They try to tempt him to change sides several times, but he would rather die than become evil. By the end of the show he does improve in skill, but Setsuna still isn't the best. It's his friends and comrades who believe in him that support him. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is missing the entire point of Setsuna's character. He's purposely not the best. The director wanted a flawed human being.
I like Setsuna as a character more. He's more interesting to me, and has a tragic backstory that explains who he is and why he does what he does. But Kira on paper is a much better pilot. I don't like Kira, but even I admit he is the perfect pilot. That's just how it is for him. Setsuna is a better character but Kira is a much better pilot.
factor in the suit and their bs meter. And 00R will still win because GN particles are broken
I don't think Kira is good match for Setsuna. He's too OP with plot hax. It would also be a boring fight. It would just be Strike Freedom shooting at 00 Raiser from long range for the entire battle. And 00Raiser trying to chase Strike Freedom. Instead Setsuna should fight Shinn. 00Raiser VS Destiny would be a better fight. They would actually clash with their swords and it would be debatable on who is a better pilot
Why do you keep trying to change who’s fighting? No matter who wins or loses the fun of these types of questions is theorizing how the fight plays out, it’s not about swords clashing specifically, if you want that you should make your own thread.
kira can't even win against rau, and he lost to pre destiny shinn. His easily outwittable. Meanwhile Setsuna has fought consistently with hard foes like graham and ali. Eventually in s2 surpassing both.
tl;dr Kira gets preferential treatment while Setsuna actually legit works hard and gets shit done in the process.
let's see kira do something like thi-
>loses limbs and stupidly ditches the still loaded backpack
I agree but It's been suggested many times already.
One anon doesn't like the suggestion because he hates Kira and wants to keep the debate about Kira. Most of us think Kira would win or it would be a boring battle to watch at the very least.
I think it’s more interesting to have a back and forth as opposed to just an outright melee fight. Sorry that I prefer to see pilots use some sort of strategy instead of just unga bunga with their swords.
problem is setsuna actually goes for the kill where kira doesn't. Thats a key part of his strategy. 00r vs destiny would be even more curbstompy since destiny speed burst is even more limited than trans-am and palma falciona cannot counter legit melee weapons
>problem is setsuna actually goes for the kill where kira doesn't.
This is a lie. Stop lying. Setsuna spares so many people. Celestial Being had a no kill policy whenever possible. Do you know how many times Setsuna spared characters? Or how many times he let the Innovades live? Setsuna even let Ali Al Sanchez live. Stop lying.
11 months ago
Anonymous
That's called using your brain. Something 99% of the cast of GSD don't fricking use. It's a well thought out plan, plus the fact his one of the few pilots who exploited his no kill policy.
Yes it is. The burder of proof is on you. And you seedgays consistently fail at providing evidence.
GSD d is a shittly written show. Mean it's also inconsistent as frick. Here's a scene where freedom can't tank blast from legend
[...]
factor in the suit and their bs meter. And 00R will still win because GN particles are broken
>completely ignores the bs gn units pull off >Ignores trans-am and teleportation
We get it, you have a big hate boner for 00. But that doesn't ignore the fact the only thing calibarn has going for it is permet hijack, and that's useless against the other two. The only way calibarn can win if it sits back and let sf and 00 duke it and out pick out either. But sulleta isn't that pragmatic to do it.
>Setsuna has trouble dealing with funnel spam
He not only can dodge as well as accurately take out funnels for days but can dodge curved beam spam too.
Hell even back when he was in Exia he could nail Zwei's fangs by throwing beam sabers and a sword.
>Virtue shooting down fangs that Setsuna missed
Setsuna didn't miss them, Michael didn't launch them. And it wasn't like Setsuna had his back to a wall either, given how he just took out 6 funnels with zero issue, there's nothing indicating he couldn't just turn around and take out the 2 in reserve. Regardless, does this look like "trouble with funnel spam" to you?
>shown to have multiple range attacks >can fricking throw his sword with pinpoint accuracy >matching trans-am
Also you're a moronic seedgay. 00R hax is legit and is shown in anime. Seed doesn't, not even stock footage.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Shinn doesn't even use his brain like that other guy claimed. The entire game plan against Freedom was thought off by Rey. Seed ace pilots are honestly overrated. They greatly benefit from the fact that vast majority of the pilots in the Seed setting prefer to remain stationary when firing their range weapons instead of maneuvering around or hiding behind cover. Even mediocre pilots like Lunamaria is considered an ace pilot because she had the foresight to dodge sometimes.
11 months ago
Anonymous
he still had to pull it off. It's moments where a group works together is such a rarity in seed. So I'll give them credit for that.(before everyone's iq goes down to single digits after that arc)
11 months ago
Anonymous
meant for this
>problem is setsuna actually goes for the kill where kira doesn't.
This is a lie. Stop lying. Setsuna spares so many people. Celestial Being had a no kill policy whenever possible. Do you know how many times Setsuna spared characters? Or how many times he let the Innovades live? Setsuna even let Ali Al Sanchez live. Stop lying.
The no kill policy is ONLY for civilians. And innovade suits have core fighter wienerpits. The only pilot he really spared was graham
11 months ago
Anonymous
>The no kill policy is ONLY for civilians
Stop freaking lying. He spared Sergei and let him live. He spare Ali and let him live. He spared Andrei and let him live. Etc etc. Stop spreading lies.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>he spared sergei
the tieren was considered knockout >andrei
plot armored >ali
-escaped due to trans-am running out
-escaped via core fighter
11 months ago
Anonymous
Your back must hurt since keep bending over backwards to make up these exceptions.
11 months ago
Anonymous
You layed examples and I answered them thoroughly. And 00R still stomps anything in sneed.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Technically the no kill policy is meant for suits that either can’t fight or people who are escaping. That’s really the only time that really applies. Setsuna will go for the kill most of the time but later on he starts to prioritize his life a bit more so he’s not going to get himself hurt trying to kill someone who’s fleeing.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah I'll call bs even for this one. CB mows down dozens of people throughout the show.
Character who did survive against CB were important plot characters, hence they have to be given an out temporarily
11 months ago
Anonymous
He's getting confused because the Thrones are described as more brutal and they have a throwaway line where the trinities are scoffing at them not killing pilots if they don't have to.
Generally speaking if a suit is immobilized, fleeing, or CB has the luxury to aim to disarm, S1 CB won't go for the kill. But if their hand is forced then they shoot to kill. This goes out the window for S2 because ALAWS are ontologically evil
11 months ago
Anonymous
in other words they're complying with geneva conventions, and thats a bad thing why?
11 months ago
Anonymous
You'll have to ask him.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Because if you dont kill the opposing pilot, you are a bad pilot. Hence why Kira sucks ass and is a bad pilot.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The only person confused is you. You can't even remember the anime properly and are just making up weird headcanon.
The Thrones are called more brutal because they are willing to destroy civilian targets like factories or research facilities. The original CB Gundams only targetted military bases. The Thrones won't limit themselves.
11 months ago
Anonymous
11 months ago
Anonymous
And? They like killing? Setsuna didn't attack the Thrones because of their attitude. He attacked them because of them targeting civilians. You want to me to post a screenshot of CB complaining about it? Stop with this nonsense anon.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Hey gay, this conversation started with two people bickering that CB does/not kill enemy pilots. I said that one was confused because there was a line from the trinities that said they don't kill enemies unless they have to, which is reinforced by the show of them not chasing downed/retreating suits but also killing if they have to.
You then decided, for seemingly no good reason, to take issue with the first half of my post to start some moronic tangent. Please stop sucking wiener for 5 minutes.
11 months ago
Anonymous
That line doesn't mean what you think it means. CB has no problems killing people. Virtue Gundam alone probably kills dozens of people with each beam blast. Or Kyrios when it does its bombing runs. The Trinities are complaining that CB is soft and won't actually attack targets that aren't military bases or armies. That's why CB is so shocked when they hear the Trinities are attacking factories full of civilian workers. These factories supply the military with weapons.
But I guess I can't expect much from a speed watcher like you.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Kyrios always sent out a warning before the bombing runs and Virtue only ever attacks enemy pilots who are fighting, not retreating. You’re being stupid. Of course Celestial Being kills people but they only kill people they have to, they give people who want to escape or can’t hurt them a clear pass when it comes to their killings. That’s not hard to get.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Please read the sentence Michael says again. Nowhere does it says they don't kill people, only if they feel it's necessary. Setsuna didn't make his grand entrance by killing Patrick. The enacts he and Lockon also shoot down are immobilized, not blown up. But the terrorists who attacked HRL's space station's ass were grass.
So you admit you were wrong about CB not killing people. Good.
11 months ago
Anonymous
No one said they didn’t kill people outright, just that they had a policy of not killing if the person couldn’t fight or was escaping. I think you misunderstood what “no kill policy” meant and took it too literally.
11 months ago
Anonymous
No. This whole argument started because you said Setsuna actually "goes for kill unlike Kira" and tried to act smug that Setsuna was better than Kira.
Then several anons pointed out you were wrong. That Setsuna spares several characters for no reason. And now you are trying chameleon shift and pretend you never said that. You were wrong about Setsuna. You admitted it. Move on and gtfo.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>That Setsuna spares several characters for no reason.
Don't forget wbere the 00gay came up with some dumb reasons why Setsuna sparing those characters don't count as his statement being wrong.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I wasn’t the one who said it in the first place and again, we’re talking about S2 Setsuna where he often does go for the kill initially. The caveat for the no kill policy is if the enemy literally isn’t a threat anymore or wishes to escape. Setsuna for the better part of S2 does not fight to let people off. I never said Setsuna was better than Kira or anything of the sort. Most of this thread has been anons trying to wank off Kira and make Setsuna out to be incompetent when both of them are just fine as pilots. Kira tries to spare while S2 Setsuna usually tries to kill outside of his 2 conditions where he won’t. It’s not very hard to understand that Kira initially tries not to kill but may end up doing so while Setsuna tries to kill and stops if given the opportunity to. This makes neither one better than the other.
11 months ago
Anonymous
WHERE IN ANY OF MY FRICKING POSTS DID I SAY CB DIDN'T KILL PEOPLE, YOU DIPSHIT?
11 months ago
Anonymous
moron
in other words they're complying with geneva conventions, and thats a bad thing why?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Seedgays are truly illiterate.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Please read the sentence Michael says again. Nowhere does it says they don't kill people, only if they feel it's necessary. Setsuna didn't make his grand entrance by killing Patrick. The enacts he and Lockon also shoot down are immobilized, not blown up. But the terrorists who attacked HRL's space station's ass were grass.
I think it’s more interesting to have a back and forth as opposed to just an outright melee fight. Sorry that I prefer to see pilots use some sort of strategy instead of just unga bunga with their swords.
reminder that he lost to someone who can actually think.
Destiny was an overall downgrage to shin since his combat style is all about blindsighting his opponents with module spam. Something luna never manage to emulate,
Again kira gets hard carried by hard writing in the show that even SRW shits on him for it
>Destiny was an overall downgrage to shin since his combat style is all about blindsighting his opponents with module spam.
That's not a combat style. That was desperation to come up with some plan because his Impulse suit was very underpowered. He needed to come up with something.
Shinn is actually very savy and intelligent. If Destiny Gundam and 00 Raiser clash, then Shinn will immediately notice Setsuna isn't quite as good at accurate long range shooting compared to close range. Or he'll notice how Setsuna gets overwhelmed when he fights a suit that catch match his speed. Or Setsuna's tendency to throw his weapons during battle. It only takes a few clashes to discover your opponents style and habits. I also don't think the GN Field can block an Anti-ship sword stabbing against it. GN fields get pierced by beam sabers.
Both 00 and calibarn can do more than just firepower and speeding. And 00 is busted in general. Calibarns gunbits are also much more aggresive than freedoms dragoons, and kira isnt really that good against legit strong opponents, so sulleta alone should be more than enough to even the odds.
SF's DRAGOONs are just laughable. Can't function in the atmosphere and isn't multiple functional. Had to retcon in beam tips on the DRAGOONs because they were hilariously underpower compared to the drone weaponry that came after it.
Setsuna is a good pilot by the end of series but he had issues with the Innovades and Ribbons. When the Innovades gained Trans-am Setsuna had big problems countering them. The Innovades would match 00 Raisers speed. So I would have to give it to Kira. Strike Freedom was so fast that Destiny Gundam with Wings of Light turned on couldn't catch Strike Freedom.
Where are all these Setsunatards coming from? Is it all one guy? 00 Raiser was strong but it wasn't some untouchable amazing beast that couldn't be damaged. Ribbons Gundam was smacking 00 Raiser around and Setsuna couldn't touch Ribbons without a smoke screen, Arios coming in to help, and Tieria messing with Ribbon's eyes.
And how many fricking times are we going thru this shit.
[...]
Youre forgetting that reborns fought a depowered 00 raiser since it just used tran am burst. And setsuna is pretty good at dealing with funnels even when he was still using exia. If 00 can trans am. It will bullshit its way against both.
So i'll have to give it too to 00 for the sheer reason that gn particles are hax tier by itself. Caliburns permet shenanigans wont do shit against the other two and strike freedom can't beam spam someone who can teleport.
>sf fans
it fought a shit strike freedom and a nerfed providence. It was cruising on easy mode throughout the series
[...] >wings of light
that'll hardly help against something that can trans-am, and teleport >but he can't control teleport >gif clearly demonstrates he can
moron
>He's okay at dealing funnels. But 00 Raiser was still slowly getting picked apart by Reborn's funnels. You are forgetting that 00 Raiser was losing against Reborn's Gundam and had the Ptolemy had to shoot smoke screen missiles to blind Reborn's Gundam just to give 00 Raiser a chance.
Did you miss the part where reborns fought 00 raiser after it used trans am burst. Like reborns knew 00 at base performance is dangerous. That's why he had to ambush setsuna.
>But 00 Raiser was still slowly getting picked apart by Reborn's funnels.
You realize this was AFTER an entire battle of against the Innovades and using the Trans-Am Burst which basically means the 00-Raiser was depleted in terms of power right? For all Setsuna's abilities he can still get tired and he's barely had time to rest before Ribbons and his cronies come out to try and gangbang him.
Sf and kira never went through the same ordeal cb gang did. Kira woukd get his shit kicked if he actually fought someone like rau in gsd. But he got off easy with bad writing.
Kira only defeated Rey because Rey suffers from the same disease that every other pilot in Seed is plague with. Remain immobile and allowing Kira to deliver the decisive blow.
?? Where is the problem? It's a all truth. Battle Setsuna had Arios, the Ptolemy, and Tieria helping him fight Ribbons. Setsuna isn't supposed to be the strongest. He's supposed to be the most determined. People want to help Setsuna win.
You are obsessed with Setsuna being the best when it simply isn't true.
Arios showed up and did nothing, Tieria tried talking to Ribbons one last time and resulted in Reborns popping Trans Am
They were no help, not even as a distraction
the only actual help was the smoke screen that let Setsuna get in for a surprise attack now that his beams were weakened. By the time Trans Am was used the smokescreen was gone as well as the nerf to his weapons >You are obsessed with Setsuna being the best when it simply isn't true.
I don't know who you were talking to cus I'm just reading through now but the issue is that you're bullshitting what happened
>Arios showed up and did nothing,
He forced Ribbons to use up several fangs to deal with Arios. It used up vital ammunition that Ribbons was planning on using for 00 Raiser.
>Tieria tried talking to Ribbons >They were no help, not even as a distraction
Ribbons got hit several times while talking to Tieria. He was distracted by Tieria and it clearly worked.
>the only actual help was the smoke screen that let Setsuna get in for a surprise attack now that his beams were weakened.
Ribbons Gundam got an arm sliced off because of that smoke screen. It was a massive help to Setsuna.
>you're bullshitting what happened
Nibba you can't even remember what happened. Stop posting.
>He forced Ribbons to use up several fangs to deal with Arios.
2 small GN Fangs that Setuna dealth with with no issue, wow >Ribbons got hit several times while talking to Tieria.
Superficial damage that had no effect on the suit >Ribbons Gundam got an arm sliced off because of that smoke screen. It was a massive help to Setsuna.
That's what I said, I get you wanna b***h about EVERYTHING but come on >Nibba
Frick you homie
11 months ago
Anonymous
>2 small GN Fangs that Setuna dealth with with no issue, wow
No anon. We're talking about ammo that Ribbons was forced to use to deal with Arios. That was ammo he was saving for Setsuna.
>Superficial damage that had no effect on the suit
Setsuna destroyed an entire leg, shield (along with the rack that held GN fangs), and one of the wing binders that also held GN fangs. Then Setsuna drop kicked the suit. Tieria's distraction worked great.
>That's what I said, I get you wanna b***h about EVERYTHING but come on
That's not what you said at all. You completely avoided typing it. He got an arm sliced off. That's huge. All thanks to the Ptolemy ship helping Setsuna.
How long are you going to keep doing this? Lying about the anime, then getting corrected, and then raging when you don't get your way. Im not even a huge Seed fan, but it's clear you aren't even posting in good faith. You are just straight up.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>That was ammo he was saving for Setsuna.
Cus that's how that works suddenly >Setsuna destroyed an entire leg, shield (along with the rack that held GN fangs), and one of the wing binders that also held GN fangs. Then Setsuna drop kicked the suit. Tieria's distraction worked great.
That's not what happened >You completely avoided typing it. He got an arm sliced off. That's huge
Holy shit your dumb >How long are you going to keep doing this?
2 posts is a lot now
Barbatos
calibarn is honestly not that great outside it's universe since it's too dependent on permet to work. And really it's best skill is killing itself and other gund units
-SF is great, but is absolutely fricked under gravity.
-00 raiser hell GN units are broken by default, but 00 raisers breaks it by being able to teleport. Sure you can say reborns was better, and it was spec wise, but if both suits fought in equal terms, reborns would get hard boddied by 00 raiser.
GN hax wins by default. If it's either unicorn or turn a on that roster, then either those two would win.
00 raiser would still win. But it'd be hilarious seeing sf and caliburn wtfing as this fossil of a suit shrugs all their beam atttacks.
The thing about Barbatos is that it never really got a super upgrade. It only got increments. And why would it? He was already ahead of the grunts in the series, and he was barely challenged by anyone. The only time they would have needed an upgrade is to fight mobile armors.
00 Raiser looks like big zam
Strike Freedom for sure, no GN-drive or magic internet space rock can beat Kira's plot armor!
Frick off template poster.
i made it in photoshop
Equal pilots - 00 Raiser for Trans-Am + GN Sword III combo
Canon pilots - Kira wins against the 2 enemy Gundams, then gets into his wienerpit
Honest answer?
Probably Strike Freedom unless 00 Raiser can get close and make it a melee fight. But 00 Raiser struggled against Ribbonz Gundam's beam spam. Kira can do the same. The Gundam from Witch of Mercury isn't a bit factor. It's severely under armed with is weapons and defensive power. 00 Raiser can literally block its attack with GN Field. Strike Freedom can block it with a beam shield. It's likely to be taken out early in the battle. Then the battle will be settled with 00 Raiser vs SF.
Youre forgetting that reborns fought a depowered 00 raiser since it just used tran am burst. And setsuna is pretty good at dealing with funnels even when he was still using exia. If 00 can trans am. It will bullshit its way against both.
So i'll have to give it too to 00 for the sheer reason that gn particles are hax tier by itself. Caliburns permet shenanigans wont do shit against the other two and strike freedom can't beam spam someone who can teleport.
Strike Freedom has wings of light though. Even Destiny Gundam couldnt catch up with SF with Shinn going full throttle Destiny Gundam and stepping the gas pedal.
>And setsuna is pretty good at dealing with funnels even when he was still using exia.
He's okay at dealing funnels. But 00 Raiser was still slowly getting picked apart by Reborn's funnels. You are forgetting that 00 Raiser was losing against Reborn's Gundam and had the Ptolemy had to shoot smoke screen missiles to blind Reborn's Gundam just to give 00 Raiser a chance.
>strike freedom can't beam spam someone who can teleport.
Except Setsuna can't really control the teleporting in 00 Raiser. It seems to only work when Setsuna gets triggered emotionally.
>It seems to only work when Setsuna gets triggered emotionally.
You think Setsuna doesn’t have trauma on demand he could use to activate that?
>You are forgetting that 00 Raiser was losing against Reborn's Gundam and had the Ptolemy had to shoot smoke screen missiles to blind Reborn's Gundam just to give 00 Raiser a chance.
Wasn’t the situation different there though? It’s not like Setsuna was just getting destroyed by theme. Also what conditions are the suits and pilots in? I feel like that has to be established to make sure you aren’t putting a powered down suit up against one at peak performance.
>You think Setsuna doesn’t have trauma on demand he could use to activate that?
If he did, then he clearly didn't use it in the show.
>Strike Freedom has wings of light though. Even Destiny Gundam couldnt catch up with SF with Shinn going full throttle Destiny Gundam and stepping the gas pedal.
Destiny is canonically the fastest MS in CE
got a citation on that?
I just know they have the same combat variation of voiture lumiere, except SF's doesn't have mirage colloid for fancy after images
Yea, the MG Extreme Blast kit mentions that it has unparalleled acceleration.
>Destiny is canonically the fastest MS in CE
you mean stargazer
This, but just to an extent. The Voiture Lumiere of Stargazer can, in theory, indefinitely speed up as long it is still moving and doesn't stop.
Destiny and SF use a combat variation with internal lasers as fuel instead of solar winds.
>Strike Freedom has wings of light though. Even Destiny Gundam couldnt catch up with SF with Shinn going full throttle Destiny Gundam and stepping the gas pedal.
Rewatch Destiny, the only reason the SF got away is because Shinn drained the Destiny's energy, that MS by itself was so fast thanks to the Voiture Lumiere used as propulsion as opposed to the SF using it for cooling.
>sf fans
it fought a shit strike freedom and a nerfed providence. It was cruising on easy mode throughout the series
>wings of light
that'll hardly help against something that can trans-am, and teleport
>but he can't control teleport
>gif clearly demonstrates he can
moron
>He's okay at dealing funnels. But 00 Raiser was still slowly getting picked apart by Reborn's funnels. You are forgetting that 00 Raiser was losing against Reborn's Gundam and had the Ptolemy had to shoot smoke screen missiles to blind Reborn's Gundam just to give 00 Raiser a chance.
Did you miss the part where reborns fought 00 raiser after it used trans am burst. Like reborns knew 00 at base performance is dangerous. That's why he had to ambush setsuna.
>Strike Freedom has wings of light though.
How fast are Destiny and Strike Freedom in CE anyways? They use the same propulsion engine, but it never feels "fast" when they use it. Destiny is deceptive because of the after images.
Let's see. I'm not an astronomer, scientist, math enjoyer or whatever, but Kira stole the Freedom when he was in PLANT and Earth was in the middle of operation Spitbreak. PLANT is located at Lagrange point 5, pic related.
The time travelled should be short because while Kira was talking with Lacus, the Archangel was getting bombarded from all directions before the Cyclops system activated.
I think anyone who knows math should be able to get a good estimation of Freedom's speed from this.
And SF and Destiny are faster than Freedom.
Lagrange point 5 is around 92 million miles from Earth.
Let us say it took Kira an hour or two to get there because he stole it while Archangel was getting in trouble.
If he took an hour and if my math is correct, the estimated speed should be around 14% the speed of light.
Anon... That's the Sol-Earth Lagrange points, not the Earth-Moon Lagrange points. Seed uses the E-M Lp like UC.
Lagrange points are just points of gravitational equilibrium in two body gravitational systems.
My bad, then. Do you have an estimate of the distance? Can't find it.
Earth-Moon L3-5 are all at lunar distance for Earth system orbit. That means if you're looking at L3 through 5 you're looking at the average of around 385,000km.
E-M L1 is stationed opposite E-M L2 near Luna with E-M L1 being on the near side and E-M L2 being on the far side. That's why Zeon was past the moon since they're stationed at E-M L2, while Luna II is stationed at E-M L3 opposite Luna.
you guys are assuming too much from a badly written show with more stock footage than a heavy arms segment. Fukada definitely forgot that space is fricking huge
Doesn't matter. It took Kira 3 days to get from the Plants to Earth.
Anon, it took Apollo 11 four days to get from launch to landing on the moon. Future tech taking three days to go from the Plants to Earth isn't ridiculous at all.
Given what we know about orbital mechanics and with our current technology, it is pretty much a given that it takes about 3 days to get from the moon to Earth (or from L5 since they are equivalent distance and in the same orbit) and vice versa. Any dramatic depiction as seen in the show would not allow for a realistic speed and is therefore subject to doubt and can be called an error on the part of the studio staff, and there are plenty of errors in the show. Even if you stretch out what the show depicts and opt for a purely theoretical situation, giving Kira 6 hours to travel from L5 to the Earth, and let him travel in a perfect straight line from L5 orbit to the Earth (straight lines are NOT a thing in orbital space travel), it's still unrealistic.
Minimum distance from Earth to moon in a straight line is 360,000 kilometers, if you divide that by 6 it is 60,000 kilometers an hour. To give a sense of scale, that is equal to about ~16 kilometers per second, or ~10 miles per second. That kind of speed is usually only ever achieved by the fastest space probes that NASA has ever launched and it takes years of carefully planned travel, sling-shotting past planets to give them a boost. AFAIK, no rocket in human history has ever achieved that speed in a short time under its own power without some kind of external assistance. If we apply that to Kira and take the show's dramatic storytelling to mean what, 30 minutes to 60 minutes travel time, the speed and acceleration to travel that distance in that time would turn Kira into pink paste.
Check the archives. Freedom and Justice have equal performance and one of the mechanical books state the Justice does 7Gs. Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice double that speed. Speed is measured in Gundam stats by Gs (Tallgeese, Victory 2, etc)
I've never gotten why they do that. Ya, most modern fighter jets can pull 9 gs, so what? The MiG 31 can probably only pull 5 gs, yet flies way faster then any modern fighter.
That means it's acceleration and turn rate is poorer than a modern fighter. Top speed is only useful for running away.
>Destiny is deceptive because of the after images
The afterimages were originally a director choice to represent its speed
Don't mention that to Wackymodder. His brain won't be able to process it without going REEEE
>But 00 Raiser was still slowly getting picked apart by Reborn's funnels.
You realize this was AFTER an entire battle of against the Innovades and using the Trans-Am Burst which basically means the 00-Raiser was depleted in terms of power right? For all Setsuna's abilities he can still get tired and he's barely had time to rest before Ribbons and his cronies come out to try and gangbang him.
>You are forgetting that 00 Raiser was losing against Reborn's Gundam and had the Ptolemy had to shoot smoke screen
00 Raiser was damaged fighting Reborn and 2 innovades
It would be between 00 Raiser and SF.
Calibarn can probably outmaneuver 00 and SF
>Calibarn can probably outmaneuver 00 and SF
>Calibarn can outmanuver something that can literally teleport
Yeah okay bud.
00 Raiser isn't equiped with the right weapons to handle funnel spam and will get taken out quite quickly.. So it will be just Calibarn and Strike Freedom. The DRAGOON pods in seed aren't shown to have individual movement ability and are pre-programmed to move a certain way, so Calibarn's Gundbits will be able to trash S freedom quite easily since each Gundbit is the soul of some child and can move independently by ewtype soul magic.
>00 Raiser isn't equiped with the right weapons to handle funnel spam and will get taken out quite quickly.
You say that like Setsuna hasn't dealt with funnel spam before. His first time with the Throne Zwei he took down 6 out of 8 in quick succession with just beam sabers, and later when he fought Saachez with the 00 Raiser he was suffering from a bullet wound to the shoulder yet still had no major issue fighting Saachez off and would have killed him then and there.
Thirdly you're forgetting the fact that the 00 Raiser can fricking teleport. Kira has no real counters for something like that so any advantages he has are fairly minimal like the Phase Shift armor which should counter GN Sword in theory if the GN Particles don't just ignore it anyway.
>Thirdly you're forgetting the fact that the 00 Raiser can fricking teleport.
00 Raiser can't teleport on command. It's only when Setsuna is triggered emotionally and is also on the verge of death.
And why would it not be possible for him to learn how to do that on command? I thought he did do it on command a few times when fighting the innovades?
>And why would it not be possible for him to learn how to do that on command?
Because we only go by what we see on screen for debates.
Plus the teleporting ability of the 00 Raiser was never in the original specs. 00 Raiser is a compromise patchwork suit. Setsuna was originally supposed to pilot 00 Gundam Seven Swords. But the twin drive was unstable and the suit would blow up everytime it used Trans-Am. They made 0 Raiser as a bandaid to help fix 00 Gundam's problematic twin drives.
The suit you are thinking of is 00 Quanta. celestial Being had to build an entirely new suit from scratch for Setsuna to be able to teleport freely. THAT suit can teleport on command (as long as there is clear line of site).
No, there’s a scene upthread where he uses the 00 Raiser and teleports when neither his life is in danger directly or he’s emotionally distressed. He can do it on command near the end of the series. Qant is far more stable and it’s probably easier but by the end of S2 he can freely use it against others.
Setsuna only teleport like 3 times in the series.
1. The first time when he is emotionally distressed that his friends might die against the A-Laws attacking the Celestial Being base, and teleports when fighting the Innovades.
2. When he is enraged at Ali Al Sanchez and is trying to kill him.
3. When he fights against Ribbons and is angry at Ribbons for manipulating everyone and ruining world peace.
Are you forgetting this scene?
Setsuna can call upon it when he needs to. It’s not as stable as it later gets with Qant but it’s not like he needs to be losing his mind to use it. It’s not like it even matters that much anyways.
>Are you forgetting this scene?
Like anon said, that's the first time he uses it. Setsuna is panicking because everyone is getting hurt or dying. 00 Raiser was never meant to be able to teleport. The engineers never knew about it. It's just some random thing that happens when the Twin Drives synchronized and Setsuna is emotionally distressed. Even then it only teleports a very short distance for melee combat. 00 Quanta was designed for teleporting in mind.
He doesn’t need to be able to teleport across the planet for it to be effective and in this hypothetical fight, it would make sense that he’d be able to put himself in the mindset needed to use it. It’s arbitrary to try and say he can’t use it much. Like I said, it’s not as stable or as good as the Qant but Setsuna can use it effectively to do what he needs to.
It don't change the fact that it still a overwhelming advantage, even if it can't be activated on command.
You should think of the teleporting ability of 00 Raiser as a small bonus. Not something that can be relied on consistently in battle. Basically something that might save Setsuna from getting hit by a killing blow, but nothing more.
Gay space magic robot wins easily
Yes, but which one?
Setsuna wasn't gay.
Why’d he bring back Graham and Neil then?
Gay Space Robot Magic can only work against other Gay Space Robots from its own timeline.
Against other Gundam it's just another useless lesbian.
No because then GN particles would only be able to block GN particle beams, which fricks over Mr. Gundam
Doesn’t the GN shield block physical rounds as well? Once it finds the right frequency of the beam and adjusts to it, it could deal with it just fine.
They stop everything except GN blades, but that just makes them busted. It doesn't imply that they could stop out-of-universe beams if we follow the other anon's logic.
The truth is that when the next real G-Gen comes out, Aerial and Caliburn will be more than capable of using their i-fields to tank beams from every timeline, just like every other machine with an anti-beam whatever can. There's no reason to put extra limits on it.
You’re ignoring why the GN Blades don’t work on them. Other beams would most certainly be stopped by it, I’d be more worried about the actual physical weaponry than anything. I think you misunderstood me, I wasn’t saying that Calibarn couldn’t block it like GN shields could, the initial conversion was about how apparently Calibarn’s beams would make 00 shield ineffective when it would be a case of both suits being able to block each other just fine.
My bad, I knew it was something like that. I’m just going off of what I know from Setsuna, but in the case that they did fight, he’d most likely focus on taking out whatever bits he could and depending on how strong the Calibarn’s shield is after missing a few bits would determine how the rest of it would go but honestly the main issue Calibarn has is that if the bits get taken out, it can’t do much other than run away and in a war of attrition, as long as the pilot isn’t tired, 00 has the advantage.
>I think you misunderstood me.
In that case, my bad.
GN particles block everything, it's essentially just super armor. This is on top of the fact that E-Carbon is supposed to be a super material used to hold the space elevators together and CB has a super refined variant that's several times stronger even without GN particle coating.
>right frequency of the beam and adjusts to it
The frequency thing is the other way around. Or rather the compression ratio. The GN-Xs were able to do damage and block shots by knowing CB's compression ratio. Otherwise the only way to get through GN armor is either GN blades or brute energy, which is an uphill battle, especially when trans-AM comes into play.
Just to clarify, knowing the GN particle compression ratio only evened the playing field a little. The GN-Xs are still very much inferior to the Gundams even if they're a lot closer than flags and other old MS. Despite having a numbers advantage and the element of surprise the GN-Xs still lost their first combat engagement with the main CB crew.
You're a fricking moron who's never even watch 00. GN particles are so busted that they stop nearly everything other GN particles weapons.
How the hell do the other two handle Trans-Am Raiser?
>setsuna: Trans am..Rais-oh God is that the Mobile suit Embedded Tactical Enforcer?
>Saji: is that...really what meteor stands for?
>Setsuna: he's too fast! Save me 0 Gundam AIIIIEEEE *explodes*
Oh? We allowed to bring in extra equipment?
Yeah, Setsuna stomps even harder then.
>not animated
Non canon
Oooh moving the goalposts now? Cute! Cope!
How is it moving the goal posts when XN-Raiser was never built in the first place? Its just a "What-If?" that the Haro made for Saji.
https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/GNR-010/XN_XN_Raiser#History
It depends really. The 00 Gundam Seven Swords is canon because that's what Setsuna used for the 00 Gundam during the timeskip between Season 2 and the 00 movie. It was even suppose to be the original upgrade plan for the 00 Gundam within the show itself, but they could never implement it because of the Twin Drive system's faults necessitating the 0-Raiser's installation. During the encounter with ELS, side material reveals Setsuna could have actually used this option set but chose the 0-Raiser equipment since he wanted to communicate with the ELS.
As for the XN-Raiser, that is non-canon because while concept was proposed, the XN-Raiser itself was never actually built. It only exists as simulation data that Celestial Being ran as possible upgrades for the 00 Gundam.
I really miss this level of autism when it came to mechs and their upgrades
Understanding was never an option.
How powerful is the XN Raiser supposed to be compared to the other 00 variants anyway?
The main advantages of the 00XNR versus the regular 00R would be the extra swords, and the extra arms to wield more swords. It doesn't really change anything about the Twin Drive System and its crazy GN particle output, which enables 00R's absurd performance.
Meteor is not good against ace units. Rau was dominating kira until the meteor got destroyed.
The METEOR works better against groups more than fast individuals. They're not as maneuverable as normal and Rau as well as manga Shinn did more damage against them than without.
00 Raiser stomps and it's absolutely no contest.
>quantumizes behind you
00 Rasier's limit break is stronger than the stuff the others have.
00-Raiser fairly fricking easily. Setsuna's reflexes are good enough to dodge and take down the Strike Freedom's DRAGOONS and that's without factoring in Trans-Am tripling the 00-Raiser's performance in addition to all other benefits Setsuna gains like teleportation or the ability to create a huge fricking beam saber with it.
Why the frick is Caliban there? Without a Permet source to hijack, it's completely useless in this fight.
00 GN tech is a few tiers above any other gundam timeline
That's an understatement. The 00-Qan[T], Zabanya and Harute were originally designed to be literal armada killers each on their own.
The G-Self Perfect Pack would annihilate all Gundams in 00
With a warning shot?
The 00, GN Drive enhanced e-carbon armor has been shown to take multiple beam shots while mobile suits in the Ad Stella and Cosmic Era timeline lose limbs and get one-shot by standard beam weapons regularly. This is disregarding the fact the 00 has a better long range weapon with its raiser sword, better melee capabilities being armed with multiple melee weapons, and Trans-Am. The Calibarn probably would come out on top if its allowed extra equipment in the form of Gundnodes which could deflect beams from a fleet of warships.
Depends how long the photon torpedos can go considering the 00Q has an even greater output raiser sword than the 00 Raiser (it managed to cut a huge opening on a moon-sized alien). No idea how quantumization would interact with antimatter particles though, if the torpedoes can't affect the 00, the G-Self would likely just get forced into close quarters and likely get destroyed by a melee focused suit with 6 GN sword bits. The G-Self can probably handle most of the Gundams, especially pre-movie ones, of 00; but, I doubt it could take on the movie suits, especially the 00Q which was simulated by a super computer to have been able to single handily stop an alien invasion that the whole combined military forces of Anno Domini's Earth Federation couldn't.
G-Self has two kinds of magic particles anon. 00 only has one kind of magic particle.
In Gundam the more magic particles you have the stronger you are.
>00 only has one kind of magic particle.
And that's all he needs considering Setsuna evolved into a space god capable of bringing people back to life which was before he turned into an ELS Innovator.
>the G-Self would likely just get forced into close quarters and likely get destroyed by a melee focused suit with 6 GN sword bits
Good luck trying to go melee against this.
This week on Reconguista in G! How will Bellri frick you up this week?
Photon torpedoes that aren't even at max power?
Firing an afterimage with mass made of photons?
Condensing photon power into lasers that shoot everywhere?
Copy pasting photons as a shield then throwing it at you?
Turning green and punching the shit out of you with photon fists?
Turning red and shooting you from deep space?
Shooting two funnels at you that explode?
Using those two funnels to trap you in a gravitational tractor beam?
Using photons to reflect your own shots?
Using photons to absorb your shots then explode in photon lasers because TSUKAME PURAIDO!
He might just kick a batter at you and shoot it to make it explode with photon power!
All I know is that Bellri will find a new way to frick you up this week while saying it's your fault that you came to this fight and he's warning you not to keep breaking taboo!
I love the G-Self so fricking much
I've been watching through the G-Reco movies and just got to the part where Bellri grabs Rockpie's beam saber with the G-Self's bare hands and absorbs the energy from it to power up his own photon shield, and it never occurred to me on my original watching just how insane a feat that is. And that's pre Perfect Pack.
The feed back loop on G-Self gets even more insane when you read the G-Reco mechanics book. That entire image about how the photon torpedoes get reabsorbed by Perfect Pack and recharge the suit with all the matter it consumed after converting it to energy is just fricking crazy.
G-Self Perfect Pack based on that shit alone could just solo the ELS by spamming photon torpedoes and converting every single salvo into more torpedo spam. That shit is actually MLB tier insane based on designer napkin drawings alone.
The ELS would just learn to adapt and not get converted. If they survived a supernova to the face, then they could survive that too.
>solo the ELS
What? The moment Bellri lets out the Photon Torpedoes and kills a few of the ELS with it, that information would be directly sent the ELS Hivemind as a whole. With that knowledge they'll come up with a way to counter it just like how they adapted the ESF forces in the movie. Blast them with a giant laser? ELS creates an energy shield. Attack them with Mobile Suits? ELS creates their own Mobile Suits. The point of their introduction was that humanity had no way of beating them, even VEDA predicting Setsuna and 00-Qan[T] doing it was off the mark since it relied on incomplete information regarding the ELS and their abilities and as well as ignoring the human factor concerning Setsuna's own health and stamina.
That's why Setsuna reaching out to them was the only solution to the conflict. Anything else is just pouring gasoline onto a raging fire.
I guess it depends on how science-y you want to go. There's only the G-Mechanics book to rely on, but if Photon Torpedoes are really doing full matter breakdown conversion into energy particles then the ELS would never be able to actually relay that information after being hit since the energy needed to carry that information would have already been absorbed the photon torpedo during the conversion process.
I don't know what science journal or sci-fi books Tomino and the gang were consuming at the time, but the way the G-Mechanics book describes the photon torpedo is getting dangerously close to black hole and waveform collapse weapons from high end scifi. Considering Venus Globe is designed to be a large form vehicle to transport Earth to a different star they were definitely consuming some wild 80s hard speculative sci-fi on that one.
The ELS are magic psychics in of themselves so that information would likely be sent regardless. Seriously they can create black holes on a whim and help bring people back to life. They can do just about anything.
GN particles and any ELS derivative would have to be literal magic for them to be able to escape total instantaneous energy conversion. That would mean they can go into a black hole and come back out without being affected by anything at all.
It would also mean that GN particles aren't actually particles.
>It would also mean that GN particles aren't actually particles.
What do GN Particles have to do with anything? The ELS were already space psychics well before they encountered humanity.
>It would also mean that GN particles aren't actually particles.
Hence space magic. But that aside, the idea I've seen thrown around by fans is that GN Drives are essentially functioning black holes in themselves because they rely on Baryonic Matter as part of their power source. Any physics expert here who knows their shit can maybe elaborate?
Anon, I hate to break this to you but black holes are specifically non-baryonic matter. It's actually impossible for GN Drives to be black hole drives. They aren't dark matter drives or axion drives either.
Baryons are part of the Fermion classification. Photons are part of the Boson classification and specifically involved in the electromagnetic force.
As an example, Minovsky particles from UC are an exotic fermion as they're a byproduct of He3 fusion which makes them composite fermions.
It's also why it doesn't make sense that OO likes Einstein so much because they don't use anything from Bose-Einstein, it's all based on Fermi-Dirac.
>It's also why it doesn't make sense that OO likes Einstein so much
As far as I know they don't like him for his science, just his philosophy regarding peace hence the quote.
They probably just didn't like Fermi because he's the atom bomb man even though most of their shit relies on his work in show.
The photon torpedos aren't large enough to wipe out an entire MS in one hit, we've seen them in use. Even if it's spammed constantly it's very possible for ELS to survive and relay the information to the hivemind.
Even if they don’t survive it, they’re constantly streaming information between each other and figuring out ways to deal with threats. There would come a point where your just making them a worse problem than they initially were
Case in point: the entire final battle with the ELS in the 00 movie. By the time Setsuna launched, Celestial Being and the ESF were essentially just buying him time to communicate with them.
>Good luck trying to go melee against this.
Good luck trying to break through the Gundam's GN Field too. It won't break outside of pure sustained ordinance, you have beam weapons that matches the frequency of the GN Field itself or you have physical weapons coated in GN Particles.
>which was simulated by a super computer to have been able to single handily stop an alien invasion that the whole combined military forces of Anno Domini's Earth Federation couldn't
To be fair, that's the Full Saber version that has extra weapons, and assuming Setsuna could pilot for a week straight with no breaks. Still, 00Q shits on everything else from Earth.
Not really. Setsuna, Allelujah and Tieria would just sense the incoming Photon Torpedoes through their psychic powers and would adjust their plan of attack accordingly. Setsuna himself again has teleportation, so all he needs is to do is to teleport once behind Bellri and that shit's over before anyone even realizes what happened.
Bellri is quite literally a dipshit compared to the CB Gundam Meisters who are an actual functional combat unit capable of taking on the entire world's military on their own. He ain't really doing shit, any attacks he could do the Quantum Brainwave trio would sense incoming.
Anon the WIDTH of the 00 Qanta's riser sword was calculated to be something like 100km wide and is capable of vaporizing anything that get within hundreds of km of the sword. Keep in mind that's the same sword that put a gash on the armored ELS moon that already adapted to GN particles and was part of the ELS homeworld when it survived a supernova. It could probably cut the earth in half
>It could probably cut the earth in half
I feel cutting the Earth in half would be overestimating its power. The ELS moon was about as big as Earth's moon, so give or take the 00-Qan[T] would need some extra firepower to cut something the size of Earth.
Probably if the ELS-Qan[T] could do it since by that point it's no longer bound by mechanical limitations.
On the note of the 00-Qan[T], it was also taking direct fire from the ELS battleship during that sequence too so it's a tanky bastard on top of everything else. Anything short of a superweapon probably won't even dent it.
00's tech jumps, especially from the second season to the movie, were kinda dumb. I know that Celestial Being was secretly testing their gundams for a decade or so before the events of season 1, but how did one guy (or a bunch of guys I guess if Aeolia got some help) invent a power source nearly two centuries ago outdo three super powers that went through multiple wars (there were at least five solar wars we know of). S1 to S2 wasn't as bad since the Federation and Innovades basically caught up to Celestial Being's tech more or less, but for Celestial Being to somehow go from Seravee, Arios, and Cherudim to actual fleet destroyers in the movie (I don't even think any of them use the 00 Raiser or 00Q's Twin Drive System)? In two years and losing their main funder too.
It wasn’t like the tech wasn’t there, CB pretty much used what it could get from Ribbons and the skittles on top of the concepts they already had. Going from Cherudim to Zabanya makes a lot of sense and Fang/Bit technology had always been a thing, they just had better access to it now on top of having Veda back so they could do a bunch of backdoor shit to get the funding they needed. It never seemed like that odd of a jump to me.
I guess Tieria using Veda to backdoor fund them does explain the monetary part, but the only thing remotely comparable to the Zabanya and co. were the Reborns and 00 Raiser which both ran on the Twin Drive System while the Raphael, Harute, and Zabanya don't even have that system. It would've been more believable to me if there was at least a few extra years of a timeskip instead of just two years between the second season and the movie.
The twin drive system would be overkill. True GN Drives are still perfectly serviceable on their own when the weapon load out it’s given is sufficient. The movie suits was basically just CB seeing how many guns and bits they could put on a suit and still have it functional. Not to mention the Gadelaza being a thing the Federation managed to pump out as well. Tech in 00 in general advances fast when it’s given new things to work with.
Not really that much of a leap considering the tech was always there. The Gen 5 Gundams are basically just the Gen 4 Gundams but perfected.
>losing their main funder
That Celestial Being movie probably made a shitload of money for them to fund those Gen 5 Gundams
00 by a mile. AD has way better tech than CE and AS, and even normalized, neither of the other suits have a good way to shut it down from a distance or answer it up close.
A lot of people in this thread said that Kira will plot armour through but Kira actually has one of the worst win rates of any Gundam lead. He loses most fights where he doesn't have a strong tactical advantage via just having a far superior mobile suit. He'll survive but he's not going to win. Suletta really has nothing going for her, she wins about as much as Setsuna but we never see her fight very experienced pilots. And keep in mind the trouble that cuckboy had with inferior mobile suits piloted by actual trained soldiers, it seems unlikely that she's so much better than the average student.to make up the difference with Setsuna, who I'm not sure actually loses a fight.
Either Strike Freedom or 00 Gundam. Calibarn is like the F91/Wing Zero if it had a flawed Bio Computer/zero system.
Calibarn tries to go understanding mode but fades into dust, leaving just 00 Raiser and strike Sneedom left to fight 00 Raiser wins cause quantizing is OP as frick as well as the GN Drive in general
going by a pure UNDERSTANDING power ranking Kira attempts to UNDERSTAND using Strike Freedom but gets out-UNDERSTANDED by Trans-AM Burst being used, meanwhile Caliburn shits itself in the corner since the only reason it was able to "understand" was because its pilot was literally the sister of its enemy
Strike Freedom doesn't have any UNDERSTANDING powers. It's just a really high performance MS. Although Kira has the faux Newtype sense, it only has combat applications, and the Dragoons in Destiny are actually controlled by a quantum computer or some shit, so you don't even need La Flaga Newtypes anymore.
>win in a fight
Strike Freedom, obviously.
00 Raiser would UNDERSTAND its way to victory, though.
I like the Caliban's aesthetic, but even the IBO Gundams could probably eat it for breakfast.
Unfair to the Strike Freedom since it doesn't have SPACE MAGIC DUST asspull but maybe the new movie Freedom will change this
seed tech aint that great tbh. Everything in that series has the durability of a cardboard, and that's even factoring ps.
>seed tech aint that great tbh
You haven't seen the shit in Astray.
God why is 00 always here whenever there's a powerscaling thread
This. We need a boobyscaling thread instead. Quick! Discuss breasts!
HOW DOES IT WORK
It's a figure of a sexless artificial humanoid that was depicted as dressing in feminine clothing in one episode of the animated TV series it belongs to.
Tieria otherwise seems to be male-coded, so it really stood out.
Tieria says he's a man. But, yeah. He's a combat type Innovade. So, he doesn't have a dick. I guess he was exempt from physicals and check-ups on the Ptolemy, since you'd think Dr. Moreno would've probably said something.
Combat types have no junk since it's not needed. Infiltration types have sex organs, in case they've gotta screw someone get close to get some intel.
Just really good bolt-ons. I guess he could probably upload his mind into a body with some breasts, but that episode was from before he knew he could do that.
GN particles, son.
Which gundam would look the best with boobs?
Setsuna
I refuse to believe Murrue's all natural with those big bazoongas. She must have had coordinator parents or grandparents with boob genetics
I actually thought G-witch tech started out pretty high end, literally starting on high performance funnel stand-ins.
But then the final upgrade is just a rather mundane MS with a not incredibly remarkable rifle and a okay boosters.
G-Witch tech started higher than most settings (you had the Aerial and Pharact with their bits, the Darilbalde with its drones, the Michalies with its incom-like claw, and bit mobile suits existing), but it never really advanced much considering a two decades old Calibarn was taking on modern day cutting edge bit mobile suits and the Aerial Rebuild. Even the Aerial Rebuild wasn't too impressive of an upgrade other than getting a huge beam weapon (but still less impressive than stuff like the Twin Buster Rifle, Satellite Cannon, Raiser Sword, etc), and it was still defeated by the Darilbalde.
Outside if the funnels and Gund hacks, G-witch suits actually really suck. They are not very well made
eh I'd say Ad Stella's normal MS are pretty up there, even the nobody MS had some neat things going for them like this MS capable of independent flight, but really to get a real jist of things G Witch needs its MSV to release ASAP
Were there any transformable MS in Ad Stella?
They don't seem to have transformable flying ones, just suits that can like the guntank-like suits that can apparently change modes
These suits are probably just going to be p bandai
>tfw no Jehuty witch from mercury kit
sad
They had some neat gimmicks sure but I mean like in terms of their build, suits lose their limbs so quickly and any decent beam can easily destroy them in a few hits. Outside of the gimmicks the actual materials of the suits don’t seem reinforced at all
Most grunt ms can't take beams, but there are MS that do seem to be reinforced like pic related, the issue seems to really lie in that these students don't really know how to fight funnels and a lot of the ms to be fair like Zoworts seem to subscribe to speed over armor.
The thing with G-Witch advance tech is that they relied to much on Permet. Especially Aerial and Calibarn.
Meaning if you remove Permet from equation the MS it self is rather luckluster.
Can't you guys wait because the Strike Freedom probably won't be Kira's best unit in 5 months?
00 Raiser is just on another level, in a battle with two equal pilots I think Caliban could beat Strike Freedom but if it's Suletta vs Kira then I'm giving it to Kira because his plot armour is way stronger.
No because then you gotta compare to the Qan[T].
>I'm giving it to Kira because his plot armour is way stronger.
Not really. The Freedom was just better than any suit in its timeline.
Is Calibarn even particularly special? It wasn't like some super Gundam. The only special one in the series was Aerial.
Calibarn is the equivalent of the 0 Gundam, Duel Gundam, or RX-78-1.
It was more like the Tallgeese if anything, it had incredible performance which could keep up with modern state of the art mobile suits but basically no pilot could handle it. The 0 Gundam, Duel Gundam, and RX-78 became outdated very quickly, with the latter two becoming outdated before the war they were introduced in concluded.
>one suit can litterally teleport
This isnt even a fair fight
Calibarn is the instant loser and that's not a slight against it - it's not a super suit, it's a 20 year old prototype pulled out of storage because it's immune to the powers of that universes dominant super suit. It's basically like if you pulled a proto Mark 2 out of storage because it couldn't be hijacked by the NTD System. It's only exceptional power doesn't work outside of it's universe.
Freedom goes down next because it's thing is utter dominance over opponents that are technological inferior to it by a generation or more, and it has no counters to 00 Raisers offense or defense which outclass it. It's absolute best case scenario is a stalemate.
The Calibarn is a super suit though, Gundams vastly outclass everything else in that universe. The Aerial itself is just a facelift of the Lfrith, the difference is that Ad Stella doesn't adhere to the rest of the franchises' logic of new suits getting developed overnight and invalidating the previous model because muh monster of the week.
So somehow it just didn’t change over 20 years?
Worked for Jegans
20 year old Calibarn is somehow equal to Aerial which as far as we know was being continuously upgraded
Calibarn never would have beaten Aerial. Eri was just trying not to obliterate Suletta. Aerial was beaten by face tanking a WMD.
It’s not and I don’t understand where people thinking Aerial was actually trying against it are coming from. Calibarn would have been outclassed by any of the suits on the field at the time, it only son because of Eri not wanting to kill Suletta
Eri was trying to dismember it but only ended up nicking the shoulder.
She easily could have if she wasn’t too afraid of her own power. Is there a reason he never kicked the broom thruster away from Calibarn other than it ending the fight too soon?
Reason you think she even could?
Because Aerial is an incredibly advanced suit and disarming an opponent that many years behind it shouldn’t be that hard of a task?
That's like the smallest target on her to shoot
Why could she not kick it away or have her bits shoot at its hands? It’s a nitpick I’m aware but it just seems really dumb to me if Eri was actually trying to make it so Suletta couldn’t fight.
Rather than purely disabling her, I'm pretty sure Eri was trying to convince her to leave, keeping Suletta around is like the opposite of what she wants and Calibarn can't move without its broom
But Suletta wasn’t going to leave and it’s not like she couldn’t have just pushed her away once she was disarmed. It just seems like an oversight.
Pushed her away where though? QZ was surrounded by enemies. I will say though we don't even get to see what she would've done once she got fed up with Suletta not listening, and thats the only thing I don't like about the episode because the laser ruins that part.
To where her allies could have picked her up and left. Suletta’s stalling only works because Eri doesn’t ever attempt to actually get her out of the way outside of talking to her. For it being the final fight it’s just incredibly anti-climactic and there was no sense of urgency on Eri’s part
>To where her allies could have picked her up and left
Where is that? You mean the people trying to sneak inside or the two other people fighting to their limits outside of QZ?
Eri pushing her to where they were trying to sneak in would have killed 2 birds with one stone. She takes out the threat to QZ and also sends Suletta off. Again, I’m just being nitpicky but there’s no reason Eri should just be fine dismembering or disarming her and leaving her for Prospera to deal with later.
>Eri should just be fine dismembering or disarming her
That's what she was trying to do but Suletta was too fast for her and Eri only managed to land a shot on her shoulder once near the end.
>Calibarn would have been outclassed by any of the suits on the field at the time
Did you even watch the series? The Calibarn was easily one of the most advanced suits even 20 years after it was created. Gundams aged like fine wine, because their inherent advantage is the GUND format itself, to the point where Ochs Earth had a storage full of the same Lfrith grunt prototypes from the prologue ready for a war.
>b-but the Aerial
Ericht could fully synchronize with the data storm and go all the way to score 8 without any blowback, while Suletta was in constant pain and could barely breathe during the ordeal, being capped at score 5. And that's not even counting how the Aerial had the benefit of being equipped with fully autonomous GUND-BITs housing the souls of dead children plus support from an army of Gundnodes. Suletta didn't even want to hurt Ericht or the other clones either. Even then, getting your shit pushed by another Gundam piloted by an immortal omniscient e-girl is hardly a demerit to the suit itself.
Is that why they had to pussy out of having Lauda fighting Suletta and instead gave us a looney tunes ass chase scene for the final battle of our protagonist?
Lauda wouldn't even be able to enter the data storm surrounding Quiet Zero without either dying or having the suit being taken over by Ericht. He had no business piloting a Gundam and, narratively, the Schwarzette had no reason for existing. It was there just for the toy sales.
>The Calibarn was easily one of the most advanced suits even 20 years after it was created. Gundams aged like fine wine, because their inherent advantage is the GUND format itself, to the point where Ochs Earth had a storage full of the same Lfrith grunt prototypes from the prologue ready for a war.
This, the fact that two supped up Lfrith mass production types utilized by two teenage terrorists gave elite Spacian forces armed with the successor unit to the Beguir Beu shows how powerful the gundam units were despite being over two decades old. The Space Assembly League still deemed the twenty year old Lfrith mass production type capable of taking on the Benerit Group's newest units, which is why they continued to produce them and had a cache of them.
>plus support from an army of Gundnodes
Not to mention, Suletta was constantly dodging barrage of beams from multiple Gundnodes at once in the Calibarn.
Double X with G-Falcon and G-Bits
Calibarn is a nonfactor here. With its specs it is equivalent to the first generation GAT Gundams from SEED.
I believe Raiser wins. Kira might be able to put a fight, but can't beat GN Trans-Am.
Setsuna has to be THE worst gundam pilot in terms of piloting skills right? From what I remember from both season's of 00 is that he cant win a fight unless his machine is much better than the opponents.
No, he actually was always pretty good, the issue in S1 is that he’s a child and Exia forces him to fight up and close against veterans with very few range options. S2 his suit was insanely unstable. when it’s a fight in somewhat equal ground in terms of damage the suits have taken, he can eek out a win and he’s also perfectly serviceable piloting grunts against others. The Gundam’s tech advances in S2 fluctuates enough that he’s not always outclassing them and can still manage.
Nah, guy beat GN-XIIIs using a Flag.
His not the toppest tier, but his high up. Also you need to be a pretty damn good pilot to continue your jihad(without support) in this beat up piece of shit.
Not really no. In terms of piloting then Setsuna's far better than most. A lot of his fighting style is him directly translating his actual CQC skills into the Gundam itself. In the 00 movie, we even see him take down a small squad of GN-XIIIs with nothing but a suited up Flag Fighter that doesn't even have a GN Drive. That's like taking down a squad of F-22s with an F-4 Phantom.
Setsuna starts being quite mediocre yeah. Ali al saches beats him on a vastly inferior machine during s1.
He gets better and better as the serioes goes by, eventually being onpar with Graham
>uses a flag to beat three GN-XIIIs, which were all almost on par with the S1 Gundams, the same Gundams that could take on literally a dozen flags piloted by ace pilots of the Union
>THE worst gundam pilot in terms of piloting skills
You guys are pretending that Setsuna's Flag didn't have GN weapons?
It had one GN sword and maybe a GN beam saber, which allowed it to actually damage the GN-XIIIs, but to take on 3 units that were roughly on par with a third generation gundam with a supped Flag is still impressive when you consider Graham barely managed to drive the Throne Ein off when he got a hold of a GN beam saber from it (when it didn't have support from two other units) and Ali deemed taking on two gundams at once too dangerous in his Enact.
The difference in skill is totally different, though. The Throne pilots are vastly more capable than a bunch of nobodies in surplus GN-XIII units who were going to attempt to murder an inspector just to get away with more corporate slavery.
Bunch of nobodies that have gigantic advantages against an outdated unit that its only upgrade are the thrusters that could barely keeps up.
A bunch of nobodies who couldn't even make use of their gigantic advantages and clearly weren't proper combat pilots.
Nah if they are not proper pilots then they wouldn't be piloting those MS. Also they are clearly terrorists that had planned the operation, so either they are good or not that's up for debate.
Yeah so anyone who boards a MS and anyone plans an operation must be good and there's absolutely no such thing as a bad plan or pilot, I guess.
He read the manual and knew what certain features were, but for all we know it could be written in a different language and all he can partially understand are the pictures and diagrams. He at least understood the basics like the beam rifle and sabre, the VR helmet, the core fighter mode, etc, but it also seems pretty likely that the suit is best operated by a newtype who can more intuitively interface with the wienerpit to access all its systems.
And because they are nobodies, they should be bad and incompetent? Who sets that rule?
Clearly UC is the only universe that nameless pilots can be competent. Stark Jegan man is a hero. Banzai Kobe Byarlant!
Does the dudes with Dainsleif counts? They don't do much but still crippled Tekkadan.
artillery isn't as hard as engaging opponents in melee. so no
You are acting like we haven’t seen how capable most no name grunts in 00 are. They are constantly putting the Meisters on the backfoot when on equal ground and there are multiple times where we see they use strategies to outwit and out maneuver the Gundams when at a disadvantage. You can say you don’t think Setsuna is a good pilot without sounding like an absolute moron.
Honestly, it's just better to assume OO has capable pilots. It goes to shit in season 2 but so does everything across the board because they made a bad Zeta clone. The thing is that, outside of UC, 00 is probably the only AU that actually legitimately goes into fully developed and trained standing armies on a national, and then near Earth system level.
Season 2, for better or worse, also showed how big a difference technology makes given how there were capable pilots fighting for the anti A-Laws that just stood no chance due to having old type suits instead of GNX lines.
Seed and CE is the universe where you just assume everyone is trash because all grunts exist just to get Kira'd, Athrun'd, or Shinn'd. Sort of like how AGE went really fricking dumb about the general piloting skills from Asemu all the way to the end of Kio.
Stargazer is probably the only time in CE that grunts showed any level of competency.
That’s honestly why that comment kind of pissed me off cause it’s not like 00 always shows the meisters stomping people or the grunts being idiots. Even Ali’s guys in S1 knew when to pull out instead of fighting a losing battle and they made it a point to show how a well formed plan and well trained soldiers could take on the gundams. The beginning of S2 even goes to show that when given equal/better tech, capable grunts can beat the meisters. As an AU it does a pretty good job of making you aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the forces fighting.
The series with the most competent no-name pilots is probably Build Fighters, at least once things get to the international level where even background characters are proven aces. They're shown to use their suits' abilities creatively, and learn from the heroes' gimmicks and adapt to them.
Bro, Build Fighters is e-sports. Chill.
The only no-names that I recall doing much were the initial GN-X pilots recruited by the UN forces, and maybe 1 or 2 conventional MS pilots over the course of S1. I'll give credit where it's due but I'd like to see them do something nice before automatically assuming they're talented. None of the three yellow GN-X pilots did anything warranting interest or praise, they were just average mooks. Again, they were literally assigned to take out what should have been a helpless target, the bar is not necessarily high here.
>They are constantly putting the Meisters on the backfoot when on equal ground
This is generally not the case, and equal ground was extremely rare.
>You can say you don’t think Setsuna is a good pilot without sounding like an absolute moron.
At this point Setsuna is nigh-untouchable, he's one of very, very few people who are actually awakened fully and can sense people and perceive things that average pilots could never see. Go ahead and put words in my mouth though, if that makes you feel better.
>there are multiple times where we see they use strategies to outwit and out maneuver the Gundams
Technically those aren't the pilot's own strategies, those were the orders of commanders from above who were able to see the battlefield on a larger scale that pilots usually don't. This also applied to the Gundam pilots themselves who also employed their own strategic forecaster and planner. They're not braindumb morons who don't know how to act, but really, you don't need to feel personally offended for these troops that are there to do their job and happened to come across one of the few ubermensch living in their time.
The argument was that Setsuna’s feat of taking out the 3 of them in an outdated but supped up flag wasn’t that comendable because they weren’t good pilots despite their suits. All I’m saying is that it’s unfair to say that they’re bad to try and make it seem like Setsuna pulling that off wasn’t impressive. They’re definitely way less experienced than Setsuna and are most certainly average mooks but they’re in better suits than he was and while the initial plan was to just take out a helpless target, it would be overkill to do that in those suits. They were expecting a fight and were threatening a diplomat, they were probably sending the best they had and if S1’s intro is anything to go by, the kinds of people who’d try to kill a diplomat are usually well organized enough to where the only reason they failed is because an unknown force had to come out of nowhere which was exactly the case in this situation, just with the roles reversed in terms of the suits.
>The Throne pilots are vastly more capable than a bunch of nobodies
not really
It’s still a flag regardless of the weapons and the show makes it a point that, while the True GN Drives are better than the Taus, if they’re up against suits that use the Taus effectively, it’s about even so it’s not like Setsuna was anymore advanced than what Graham at the end of S1 was.
Setsuna was a fine pilot. The worst is decisively Loran because there's so much shit he just completely failed to pick up about the Turn A and I know there's gonna be some defense coming but you have to remind yourself that the Turn A is a FUTURISTIC AS FRICK MOBILE SUIT. That means it has a built in tutorial for practically every fricking feature and he was too dumb and worthless with the suit to take advantage of them.
I mean its the same argument used against Setsuna. The same argument can be used against Amuro too for having the Gundam beating the shit out of Zakus.
What are you even talking about? Loran piloted multiple suits just fine and the Turn-A was literally not functioning properly for half the entire show. It couldn't even activate its own thrusters until the fight with Corin in the underground lava channel.
he at the very least showed some ingenuity every now and then
The Calibarn is literally the Wing Zero of its series.
If that were true, Calibarn would be dominating the fight against Aerial.
Unlike every other suit in the series Calibarn can't even move that well without the Broomstick. Advanced my ass.
still seemed more agile than any other MS in the setting because of the Broomstick
00 would be useless if you hit the gn drive container.
Strike freedom loses most of its options if you cut off its wings.
And your point is..........
.......
..........?
You’re comparing a weapon to a power source on the first one and it’s not like SF becomes helpless, Calibrn without the broom is a sitting duck
>Strike freedom loses most of its options if you cut off its wings.
So I'm guessing the the chest cannon, the rail guns, and the beam shields don't exist on the Strike Freedom in this situation?
To begin with the GN Drives are ATTACHED to the 00 Gundam. That means they're shit ton more secure as opposed to the broom stick gun that the Caliban has.
Rather if you take out 00s gn drives means taking out the suit itself.
Here is how stupid Calibarn Broomstick is. Imagine if the optional Gunpods on a fricking fighter aircraft irl was also the main source of thrust. That's how stupid it is.
Take it to the Titans Test Team, boosters on handheld equipment was their idea in the first place.
>a fight?
What fight? This is like those Goku vs Superman arguments where the real answer is that they would be instant bros and go for hotdogs. You've got the non-combat NOPE ray *and* the magic pixie dust UNDERSTANDING machine next to Kira not wanting to fight unless he has to. There wouldn't be a fight.
Because people want to prove that their favorite show can beat up your favorite show, and therefore is better.
Or people just want to compare the tech of different universes against each other? Can people not imagine these things without it being some kind of contest about which show is better?
>Can people not imagine these things without it being some kind of contest about which show is better?
No.
The problem is that there are way too many variables for any of it to even matter.
The only thing you can actually say in this thread is that Caliburn is useless because nobody has Permet so its biggest strength is nullified. After that you've essentially just got like... one of the Woundworts or Hazels at best?
Everyone has shit that shoots beams, shoots bigger beams, has big beam swords, has funnels, etc. There are so few points of common technology that it's just conceptual points of reference that say nothing.
No one knows how minovsky particles affects anyone else. No one knows how GN particles affects anyone else. No one knows if N-Jammers would even work on like 90% of the series.
That's ultimately why these things boil down to just "Raiser teleports and makes asteroid sized beam sword" and everyone just goes "yeah okay." Or "Unicorn turns back time" and everyone goes "I hate Fukui." Or "Turn-A MLBs" and people go "I hate Fukui holy shit it didn't even do that in the show why are we talking about novels that wasn't even in the novel I fricking hate Fukui."
Perfected Unicorn will pwn all of them.
>I like this character more so they win
The thread.
Gundam Musou had Emma mugging Master Asia with a bazooka
Any of these characters can win in the right situation and the discussion is ultimately pointless. Go settle it in exvs
Much more of this thread is "I hate this character more so they win"
There're so many posts that say Kira would win because of his plot armour when Kira actually has one of the worst winrates ever among Gundam leads. The motherfricker has gotten beaten by nameless grunts and loses almost every even fight he gets into. The show stresses that Kira isn't actually a good pilot, he just always has the best machines and a high level of compatibility with his suits, in some cases, being tailored specifically to take advantage of his abilities.
Depends on the pilot and whether or not we're ignoring universe specific tech mechanics.
Equal piloting and Calibarn-Aerial being unable to override, I'd honestly still say that Calibarn-Aerial probably wins since it has more bit/funnel style weapons than Strike Freedom, and the G-Bits are multifunction, serving as offense and defense and independently operated. 00-Raiser, once you remove the plot armor from 00, doesn't even really factor into this IMO, since it's pretty under-armed. Trans-AM is kinda busted, but Calibarn was able to stand on even ground with an actual army entirely focused on it.
So in terms of pure suit to suit performance, it's Calibarn-Aerial, Strike Freedom, 00-Raiser.The one area where the 00-Raiser has an advantage is endurance, with the Twin Drive system giving the suit a functionally unlimited operational time, which is only dependent on the pilot's endurance.
If we're including the pilots in this, then it's Strike-Freedom no questions asked because Kira is absolute bullshit, but Suletta is still a better pilot than Setsuna who basically just skated to victory on the relative performance of the gundams in setting.
TL;DR
Not taking pilots into account: Calibarn-Aerial> Strike Freedom>00-Raiser
Taking Pilots into account:
Strike Freedom>Calibarn-Aerial>00-Raiser.
big moron moment
>completely ignores the bs gn units pull off
>Ignores trans-am and teleportation
We get it, you have a big hate boner for 00. But that doesn't ignore the fact the only thing calibarn has going for it is permet hijack, and that's useless against the other two. The only way calibarn can win if it sits back and let sf and 00 duke it and out pick out either. But sulleta isn't that pragmatic to do it.
Watching WfM made me appreciate how they did all the effects back then a lot more. The GN pixie dust isn’t nearly as bad how unreadable most of the effects from the bits in WfM end up making the entire scene. I also miss characters being able to actually take out the bits that were attacking them instead of just dancing around them because they’re invincible.
Calibarn-Aerial and Strike Freedom could both handle trans-am 00-Raiser. The quantum teleportation is a little harder, but honestly still within reason.
>But that doesn't ignore the fact the only thing calibarn has going for it is permet hijack
You do know that the Gund-Bits have way more utility than the Super DRAGOONs right? Being able to have mobile I-Fields that can shoot back is way more useful than being able to stab a dude with a missile. The Calibarn-Aerial is the most heavily armed suit out of the three.
>The Calibarn-Aerial is the most heavily armed suit out of the three
newbies are moronic
Lol ok moron. I'm sure the mega launcher tier beam cannon and 50% more bits that hit harder than Strike Freedom is totally less fire power. Fricking idiot.
You must not be aware of how either Kira or Setsuna fight if you think Calibarn having bits that can’t fully utilize makes it more well equipped. The issue with the Gund-Bits that because they do everything, there’s not much else the suit has going on so it wouldn’t be that hard for either 00 or SF to force it into a defensive mode for most the fight and then use their other weapons to deal with it. SF would have the easiest time but 00 could run it over quickly enough with a well timed Trans-Am. Calibarn is only well equipped in its universe.
It's the least, actually. You're correct about the i-field funnels having their own utility, but it lags behind in terms of the number of weapon systems.
Aerial literally was about to be torn to shreds by Darilbalde's sword drones and needed to use it's override if it got spooked by that then obviously it would also lose too strike freedoms dragoons with a coordinator piloting
moron. Once again calibarn's only at it's best against enemies within it's own universe. And it's up against GN haxicles. It's hard fricked the moment 00 uses trans am
Calibarn would destroy 00 Raiser for one reason only, Eri. We can assume because Calibarn brings the gundbits then the coven will enter the fight with her.
When setsuna tries to use his gn particle understanding hax, he would be shocked to not only see Suletta, but multiple versions of Eri too.The Eri clones would mock and destroy his fragile ego
"LOL Bro thinks he's a Gundam"
"You fight to end fighting? Isn't that a contradiction?"
"Your hair looks stupid."
"You'll never be Gundam. But we are."
Setsuna would stammer out " I am a Gundam. I am a Gundam. I AM A GUNDAM DR CARDO" distracting him long enough for the bits to surround and completely disable 00 by shooting off every limb.
Sorry, but quantum realm chat is moderated by Veda. It will just ban the kids from the chat.
t.
An SRW with Thunderbolt, OO, and G-Witch would be hilarious as frick if Ribbons got his hands on Karla's ReUSE system hijack from the current parts of the Thunderbolt manga. b***h actually figured out how to hijack newtype brainwaves and turn Newtype pilots into bit-pilots.
The 00Q and 00R are interstellar weapons. The 00Q damaged a moon sized alien that tanked a supernova, no other gundam in the mainline franchise even comes close. 00R, while not as powerful, is still within the same realm as the 00Q.
>The 00Q damaged a moon sized alien that tanked a supernova, no other gundam in the mainline franchise even comes close.
It goes further
G Gen power level top end is basically just SD turned Real type, Turn-A, OO and its variants, Unicorn, and G-Self Perfect Pack.
I still don't know why they completely overtuned G-Self in two games but they did and it's a monster. I don't even want to know how they'll overtune it next game now that they can use movie changes.
Too many delusional people think Strike Freedom would win when Strike Freedom and Kira only ever fought and won against people they had a technological advantage over or opposing pilots that had a mental breakdown during the middle of their engagement. Probably the most overrated main protagonist Gundam outside of Barbatos.
hey frick you atleast barbatos fought against unwinnable odds, and realistically lost
Does Mikazuki lose any fights except at the finale?
some practice matches against Lafter technically. And Hashmal was basically a draw, Barbatos was nearly wrecked
>Barbatos was nearly wrecked
But it wasn't and Hashmal was and that's what counts!
He doesn't even really "Lose" the finale, he just dies of blood loss from the Dainsleif barrage before he could finish slaughtering them all. Had he lived for a few more minutes Manface and her squad would have gone down with him
>Kira only ever fought and won against people they had a technological advantage
This is Ramba Ral tier cope
Kira seriously loses a ton of fights anon. He loses his first fricking engagement with another gundam, which I think is his second or third fight in the series. He never beats either of the other leads in a fair fight but has lost to both of them. He actually loses one of his first engagements on the fricking Freedom. He loses to nameless mooks the one time he's forced to sortie without a machine that's two generations superior to everything else on the battlefield.
Did he lose in Strike Freedom?
No, but I think it has a total of three sorties in it in the entire series and actually gets saved by Athrun in the Infinite Justice.
Kira is canonically a shitty pilot who's carried by top grade suits designed to take advantage of his programming abilities. The Freedom series lets him run targeting macros but he doesn't even perform well against grunt suits when he gets taken into close quarters.
As long as we're discussing win rates, how was Setsuna's?
Suletta has a shot at victory but she has to shoot them both down quickly since Calibarn is literally eating her life away the longer she uses it. Makes me wonder if SRW will put her back in Aerial or use fanfiction to put Eri inside Calibarn
Trans-am and GN tech are just too good, can't see the others putting up a fight, that is... putting aside their pilots.
Calibarn is a literal non-starter with non permet using machines.
Setsuna's the best pilot of the three by a mile. Neither of the others are all that good in the context of just their own universe.
I wonder if we'll ever reach a day where Jesus Yamato posting finally dies out.
As long as people are able to watch episodes of Destiny, it will never stop. Every year, more and more people will see Kira literally fricking die only to return three episodes later with no visible issues. It can't be stopped.
>I wonder if we'll ever reach a day where Jesus Yamato posting finally dies out.
I'm always fascinated by the Jesus Yamato posting because Setsuna quite literally survived two instances of a beam saber going through his MS too. He also literally became Jesus after the 00 movie.
Then there's Heero who was also able to survive the Wing Gundam exploding around him after he self detonated it.
Wing Zero TV version
Strike Freedom is built for absolute pure speed and agility. They specs say that SF has reduced armor in order to save on weight and be more flexible. The joints and inner skeleton have phase shift to handle the added stress of the suit being so fast. It also has Wings of Light and funnels.
00 Raiser is an all rounder with some powerful attacks. It can also hit very hard and is dangerous with its GN Swords. But it's not as fast as Strike Freedom. 00 Raiser would need to use Trans-am to keep with Strike Freedom using Wings of Light.
The Caliburn or whatever isn't a big factor. It can snipe suits with its powerful beam and is somewhat fast. But it's nothing special and gets hit in the show. It would die first.
Can Setsuna even hit Kira? Strike Freedom is insanely fast. Only way Setsuna wins is making it a melee fight
It's insanely fast in its own setting; most CE technology is pretty tame relative to other settings though, and the units in AC, AD and PD at the very least are almost certainly an order of magnitude faster in general because they are noted to cross interplanetary distances in relatively short times, as compared to the units in SEED mostly still taking a week or so just to travel between Lagrange Points, Stargazer aside.
00 Raiser is more powerful with its Raiser beam sword. But it's not as fast as Freedom with Wings of Light activated. Plus Kira is a Newtype so he can predict Setsuna's attacks. If the battle stays long range then 00 Raiser loses because Freedom will slowly peck at 00 Raiser's defenses until something breaks.
Why wouldn’t Setsuna just trans-am at that point?
00R very likely faster than the Strike Freedom, Strike Freedom isn't even the fastest in its own verse, that honor goes to the Destiny which also isn't so fast that the Justice and Legend can't tag it
>Strike Freedom isn't even the fastest in its own verse, that honor goes to the Destiny
I love how you typed those words but the exact opposite of what you wrote is the truth.
The Destiny Gundam? OFFICIAL sources say it has
>UNMATCHED ACCELERATION
?t=55
As for the Strike Freedom
Speed isn't even even mentionable. It's not its strong suit. The Strike Freedom being fast is just headcanon based on false assumptions that having voiture lumiere makes it fast.
Strike Freedom is only fast if you don't pay attention to anything actually said in show or materials. Unfortunately Seed Destiny gives us enough details that only sound fast to uneducated people, but are actually slower than modern space technologies.
Are you people forgetting 00 has frickhuge beam attacks?
also lol trans am = ded SF
His first battle against lafter and kimaris. Tbf the latter is because barbatos cannot get fixed prior to that sortie. But kimaris highlights mikas weakness against fast opponents.
>Are you people forgetting 00 has frickhuge beam attacks?
>completely ignores the bs gn units pull off
>Ignores trans-am and teleportation
We get it, you have a big hate boner for 00. But that doesn't ignore the fact the only thing calibarn has going for it is permet hijack, and that's useless against the other two. The only way calibarn can win if it sits back and let sf and 00 duke it and out pick out either. But sulleta isn't that pragmatic to do it.
Beam shields in Seed block some pretty huge attacks.
>also lol trans am = ded SF
Trans-am powers up beam weapons, but it's about equal to Wings of Light in terms of speed. Both systems make after images so they are comparable.
trans-am is an overall performance boost. But it can pull of some insane dodging maneuvers by default.
Post Kyrios styling on Souma and Sergei or Arios destroying Hilling.
>Webm's so old that it quantizes anons back to 2008 just by watching it
Moar
SEED is one of the least impressive Gundam series in terms of techology. Even IBO is probably more advance despite them not using beam weaponry.
Strike Freedom is too much for 00 Raiser. A better fight would be Destiny Gundam VS 00 Raiser. The suits are more equal. Both are close combat specialists, and it would definitely be a close fight.
>A better fight would be Destiny Gundam VS 00 Raiser. The suits are more equal. Both are close combat specialists, and it would definitely be a close fight.
Agreed. Both suits create after images while going full speed. So it would be interesting to watch.
OP you are asking the wrong question.
Pic related would be a much more enjoyable & close fight (well between Athrun & Graham at least). Less hax & more skill involved this way.
>Pic related would be a much more enjoyable & close fight
>post AWOT gundam
It's a complete rinse. Late game Gundams from 00 are so fricking overpowered.
The Exia R4 is still an Exia with some prototype parts for the 00Q & a GN Drive Tau. It is post AWOT but it belongs somewhere between S2 & AWOT in power scaling at full tilt. Its a fairer fight than the Strike Freedom vs 00 Raiser though. The Brave Commander Type would be a white wash I think.
With the canon pilots 00R takes it. The real argument is Suletta v Kira. Suletta proved herself to be a fricking champion at dodging beamspam, but Kira is Jesus Yamato.
Beam Shield blocking the Destroy's main cannons.
Also remember, the Akatsuki could block the Minerva's Positron cannon without a beam shield.
00Raiser vs Destiny Gundam is a much better fight. Strike Freedom is just too fast and Kira loves to fight at a distance which is the opposite of Setsuna.
>Strike Freedom is super fast!
Where? Strike Freedom isn't shown to be faster than Destiny or even Legend. Kira doesn't beat Rey due to a speed blitz. He shoots down his dragoons and then full bursts him when he stops moving.
00 is easily the series with the best display of speed in the franchise outside of specific instances like Tallgeese, FX using burst mode and that one melee suit in X. 00 has instances of the Raiser lapping those GN-X around that asteroid. Trans-Am visibly making the suits faster and people reacting to it. Destiny has better instances of speed than Strike Freedom. The best speed feat Kira has is when the Freedom had so much power that it could tow another suit and still advance past others.
>00 has instances of the Raiser lapping those GN-X around that asteroid
I was thinking about that too, people are really underselling how fast the 00 Raiser is even outside of trans-am.
I can just hear the GN Particle sound effect. It's so clean. One of the best in the franchise with the newtype flash, Zeta's beam rifle and the zero system.
I miss 00’s fight scenes
Sigh. Both of you have memory problems.
The Celestial Being Gundams from Season 1 were not particularly fast. Other mass production suits from other nations were still able to hit them, and keep up with them.
What made Season 1 CB Gundams powerful were their GN drives. It gave the suits GN beams, messed with everyones' sensors and scanners, and lastly gave the CB Gundams a huge defensive boost to their armor. They could tank physical rounds from other suits all day because of GN armor.
But they were NOT particularly faster than other nations' military suits during Season 1. If anything, 00 Raiser is just barely matching what Seed Gundams could already do. Seed Gundams were built around high speed and dogfighting. They move like fighter jets. 00 Gundams are playing catch up in terms of speed compared to Seed. Rewatch Season 1 of 00 Gundam and you will know Im right.
>Sigh
Post discarded.
stock footage is not representative of speed. Fukuda being bad at writing doesn't justify spec head cannons.
Didn't Fukada make the stock footage canon to explain how Shinn defeated the Freedom?
>fukuda had to asspull to save his gary stu
typical hack
Asspulls and shit story automatically deducts you points. Also it never fought anything stronger than it. and specs alone. It's mogged by 00R in everyway
Talliy is still 00 > SF > Calibarn. Seedgays need to prop their evidence next time to avoid this embarrassment
>muh SAO
>muh SRW
What's wrong with this autist(s)?
>muh srw
Discussing SRW is one thing, having a hateboner for SEED and constantly bringing up SRW for "gotchas" against it is some autistic schizo behavior.
compare to propping bad headcannons, pointing how flawed GSD is acceptable in exchange.
Just because you don't LIKE Seed doesn't make it not canon. Kira is the best pilot in Seed. That's the reality. Cope.
>Kira is the best pilot in Seed
that's a pretty low bar
>Kira is the best pilot in Seed.
Have the aimbot/ai do all the work for him isn't piloting. Because if that counts, Lowe is easily the best pilot in Seed.
>kira is the best pilot in seed
COUGH
You're just as pathetic as the people you criticize, get a grip.
Why are you talking about S1 when this is a discussion about a suit in S2?
>Why are you talking about S1 when this is a discussion about a suit in S2?
Did you read the post? Because S1 CB suits were way below speed standards compared Seed (even S1 Seed). S2 CB suits are just barely in the same speed class for weaker S2 seed suits. You are acting amazed at 00 Raiser flying around a small Asteroid when Strike Freedom is zipping around entire colonies and huge asteroids. CB suits aren't that fast without Trans-am. Strike Freedom could probably wipe the floor of every CB and Innovade suit. 00 Raiser is the only one that maybe could hang in there for a while. But still lose against SF.
People have posted scenes of 00 suits moving fast and all you can do is go, "nuh un!" You haven't posted a single video of Strike Freedom outperforming anything.
Oh you’re just being obtuse then. S2 suits compared to S1 isn’t just slightly better, they’re far more tuned up than S1 and even then S1 suits weren’t slow at all. SF is fast that’s undeniable but you’re acting like 00 suits, specifically 00 Raiser would be left in the dust when 00 suits have the benefit of trans-am on top of just having really good speed outside of it as shown already.
>00 Raiser would be left in the dust when 00 suits have the benefit of trans-am on top of just having really good speed outside of it as shown already.
00 Raiser is the only CB suit that wouldn't be left in the dust completely but it would still be lagging. And Setsuna wouldn't risk using Trans-am unless he was sure he could finish the fight. Trans-am drains your suit hard and leaves it weaker then normal for a period of time. Like others have said....Destiny Gundam is a better match for 00R.
You’re acting like Arios isn’t also a suit built for speed or like it’s that far outmatched when it isn’t. This conversation honestly deals more with how fast the grunts are in each universe for an actual proper comparison cause it really seems like you’re underestimating how fast 00R actually is, both inside and outside of trans-am.
>You’re acting like Arios isn’t also a suit built for speed or like it’s that far outmatched when it isn’t.
Arios was a glorified battery for most of Season 2. It spent most of its time in the hangar sharing Trans-am with the Ptolemy.
And when it’s in action it’s incredibly fast. There’s no need to be this stubborn about it. Both aus have around the same speed capability it’s not that hard to admit.
>Arios isn’t also a suit built for speed
NTA but I question whether Arios could even beat Savior Gundam.
>You’re acting like Arios isn’t also a suit built for speed or like it’s that far outmatched when it isn’t.
At least post the full quote you disingenuous shit.
this was about 00s2 suits being faster than ce suits
>this was about 00s2 suits being faster than ce suits
You are mistaken then. Arios is a S2 suit. Kyrios is the S1 suit.
Arios may be fast but its way too underpowered and underequipped to beat Strike Freedom. No weapon it has could even penetrate Strike Freedom's beam shield.
I’m not saying it can beat strike freedom, this is about speed anon
Outmaneuvering a slower mobile suit and attacking it's blind spot is something that Arios is capable of doing. SEED's beam shields aren't invincible. Can be bypassed by physical weapons or outright disabled by concentrated fire. Never mind SEED's pathetic standard for mobile suit armor. 00 mobile suits can actually tank beam projectiles.
>SEED's beam shields aren't invincible. Can be bypassed by physical weapons or outright disabled by concentrated fire
Not by anything Arios has.
See
Didn't Legend break Strike Freedom's shields?
>SEED's beam shields aren't invincible. Can be bypassed by physical weapons or outright disabled by concentrated fire.
You are thinking of GN fields. Those have been broken and disabled.
>Never mind SEED's pathetic standard for mobile suit armor. 00 mobile suits can actually tank beam projectiles.
Pathetic? It's called Phase Shift armor. One of the best Armors in the entire Gundam franchise.
>armor that defends well against solid attacks
>In a setting where beam is practically everywhere
Nanolaminate and e-carbon are currently the strongest armors in the game since the suits with them are actually shown taking a decent amount of beating from beam shots. Meanwhile everything in seed is made out of cardboard and explosives
Gundamium is stronger than both.
it's inconsistent as frick. just like wing
Inconsistent, how?
>Other mass production suits from other nations were still able to hit them, and keep up with them.
Keep up? No, not really. Graham had to get an overtuned, upgraded Flag with the G-dampeners reduced to even try to keep up with the Gundams, and he barely bested the Thrones which were GN-X tier suits piloted by lab monkeys. There were certain scenarios in which grunts were able to corner them or fight them in close range but that's it
I have to agree. I never got the impression Celestial Being had really fast Gundams. The GN drives were special because of unlimited power and no one could detect them.
being fast is moot considering trans-am is a thing, and again teleportation. Destiny would get mogged even harder than sf, especially if were going to have anime shin piloting it.
Wing Zero.
>Strike Freedom is faster than 00 Rasier
An absolutely laughable statement. Strike Freedom isn't even faster than 00 Rasier outside of Trans-Am.
>sf is fast
>gets caught by gouf tentacles whilst speeding
And they werent even shot out, they were whipped out by the goufs.
Those Goufs are insanely fast to catch a Strike Freedom that is capable of moving FTL.
You don't seem to remember the episode.
The Eternal ship was surrounded by a fleet of ships and around 30 Goufs and Zakus. Kira was forced to launch INTO the group of Goufs. They didn't magically catch up to Strike Freedom. They were already surrounding the Eternal and the launch ramp. Kira had to launch into them and break out of the encirclement. Later when they try to hit SF again, they couldn't even touch Kira. SF single handedly then destroys the entire fleet.
How does the Wing Zero fair in this fight? Or the Gundam AGE-FX?
Arios doesn't have the output of a Twin Drive. So it's slower at top speed compared to 00R at top speed.
The big weakness of 00 Raiser that many of you are forgetting is that if the Raiser backpack itself gets damaged then the Twin Drives stop working. Kira doesn't even need to damage the main 00 Gundam suit. He only needs to target the Raiser backpack and damage it enough for it to stop functioning. Remember 0 Raiser is a patchwork to make 00 Gundam work properly.
00gays will justo go:
>b-but muh GN Field perfect defense!!!
Oh you mean like what sneedgays did in response to being told that the 00R has pretty substantial beam weapon power too?
What are you even talking about. People admitted that 00R has more raw firepower. But most people are also saying that Strike Freedom is faster on average (without 00R using Trans-am) and is more agile. You can't seem to accept that.
>People admitted that 00R has more raw firepower
Read the thread.
>00 side provides examples and scenes to back up their claims
>SF side is just vague speculations
SF never fought anything stronger than it. Kira lost a lot of fights. 00 handles itself well even before raiser. Also one killed shit in a grunt suit while the other lost to grunts suits
So far most on the thread heavily favors 00. Meanwhile caliburn is completely forgotten
>Meanwhile caliburn is completely forgotten
Suletta is dexmaxxed and dodges everything but dies of gund aids mid-fight.
>dodges everything
Eri was trying to disable her hence aerial wasn't going fire everything at sulleta. And even then she still got hit.
>00 handles itself well even before raiser.
It literally explodes when it tries to Trans-am. It can't handle fighting custom A-heads (custom grunt suits). The entire lore is that the suit can't properly use the Twin drive without the Raiser to stabilize it
It can’t properly use it but despite that, even when it’s running at the safest levels possible before raiser it’s still a pretty capable suit. Setsuna just kept getting into scuffles where he couldn’t afford to play it that safe and fried the suit out of fear for his life. It can take on grunts but when it comes to aces then the limits placed on it before 0 Raiser are too much to work with.
No, most people actually looked at the shots provided and concluded that they’re pretty much on par with each other. Kira isn’t going to blow past Setsuna but Setsuna isn’t going to do so either.
As oppose to seedgays going muh Kira and muh beam shields? Legend with concentrated fire from his beam rifle and bits were sufficient in overpowering and disabling Strike Freedom's beam shield. An anti-ship sword or any physical weapon can bypass the beam shield and hit the target behind it. Strike Freedom isn't even that mobile nor agile if it couldn't avoid Legend's beam projectiles under the Earth's atmosphere. Had to deploy the beam shield in an attempt to block Legend's beam projectiles instead of attempting to evade it.
You’re saying that as if Setsuna would just sit there and let him? 0 Raiser isn’t exactly an easy target and it may as well be like aiming for the main suit
Ribbons was able to do it. He tore the Raiser backpack apart and stole one of the GN drives.
That was after Setsuna had been thoroughly exhausted by an onslaught. That wouldn’t be the case in a dogfight like this. The conditions are the pilots and suits at their best so Setsuna wouldn’t let that happen, especially with Saji on board.
>He tore the Raiser backpack apart and stole one of the GN drives.
He did that in a cross exchange when the 00 was currently totaling his suit, and he was only able to do that because Reborn's arms can bend backwards.
This isn't SEEDverse, opposing pilots aint going idle in their mobile suit and allow Kira to shoot them down.
Reminder that based on animation the RX78-2 Thunderbolt gay moves faster than Strike Freedom.
Strike Freedom can't even compare to end of the OYW suits. Pitiful.
00R is built to be a multi-purpose power suit. A little bit of everything. With a very dangerous close range blade and the huge Raiser energy sword. In fighter terms it's a multi-role fighter like an F-35. Strike Freedom is built for pure top speed, agility, and instant response time. The inner frame had to be enhanced with phase shift armor just to keep up. In Fighter Terms it's an F-22 Raptor. It's built to take out other mobile suits and not get hit. Plus Kira is also genetically modified on the DNA level to be the perfect coordinator and he's also a Newtype. In a head to head battle I gotta give it to Strike Freedom. Setsuna struggled to beat Ribbons and needed help from the mothership and Tieria hacking Ribbons Gundam.
Tieria did nothing to the Reborns
>Tieria did nothing to the Reborns
He was hacking the display and messing with Ribbons vision. He distracted Ribbons
meanwhile SF never fought anything stronger than it in the series and still struggles against a nerfed providence and was saved by bad writing
>Setsuna struggled to beat Ribbons
how many times are we going to go through this shit?
Since this thread is almost dead the tallies can basically conclude to 00R > SF > Calibarn
Why are you forgetting that Setsuna is an Innovator and discounting the fact that the 00R has a mode it could easily use to close the distance and get close enough to put SF out of its comfort zone? You haven’t watched 00 if you don’t understand why he struggled against Ribbons, the person who planned his entire assault to tire out everyone before he stepped in.
Is there really a 00gay who is arguing with everyone in this thread? 00R isn't even the fastest suit. Arios is the fastest.
>everyone
Seems like one Seedgay that doesn't even post evidence to backup his claims.
If your ms came from one this man's work. It's automatically shit. Just like his writing.
00 Raiser was almost destroyed by the end of the show.
Strike Freedom was perfect condition.
SF wins.
Flawless brainless logic
gets mogged even with better equipment and status
>still wins despite being out gunned and underarmed
Setsuna's problem is he has shit luck getting jumped by strong opponents after going through a hard battle. A scenario Kira NEVER went through.
>A scenario Kira NEVER went through.
NTA but Kira fought 1v3 and 1v4 battles repeatedly. Apparently you forgot the first 20 episodes of Seed.
i'll give you early seed where he keeps getting runned with zaft gundams. But near the end. He gets paired with athrun whenever they fight the druggie trio.
No idea about the Gwitch suit. But between 00R and SF I give 55/45 odds in favor of SF. Setsuna has trouble dealing with funnel spam. Plus Setsuna got captured by a freaking electro net a couple times. That's some embarrassing stuff.
>Setsuna has trouble dealing with funnel spam
You did not watch 00
>Setsuna has trouble dealing with funnel spam
He not only can dodge as well as accurately take out funnels for days but can dodge curved beam spam too.
Hell even back when he was in Exia he could nail Zwei's fangs by throwing beam sabers and a sword.
>Hell even back when he was in Exia he could nail Zwei's fangs by throwing beam sabers and a sword
You are such a little liar. Exia was saved by Virtue shooting down fangs that Setsuna missed. This is why no one agrees with you.
>Virtue shooting down fangs that Setsuna missed
Setsuna didn't miss them, Michael didn't launch them. And it wasn't like Setsuna had his back to a wall either, given how he just took out 6 funnels with zero issue, there's nothing indicating he couldn't just turn around and take out the 2 in reserve. Regardless, does this look like "trouble with funnel spam" to you?
>there's nothing indicating he couldn't just turn around and take out the 2 in reserve.
Wow this is some serious cope.
>Regardless, does this look like "trouble with funnel spam" to you?
It looks like Exia was about to get hit in the back and was saved by Virtue (that you conveniently left out).
>he took out 6 fangs without missing a beat, disproving my point that he can't deal with funnels?
>I'll just ignore that and focus on the gank attack
This is why powerlevel wankery is so moronic.
Setsuna missed 2 obvious fangs still mounted on the Throne. You can see them clearly still mounted on the suit from the outside. Exia had to be protected by Virtue Gundam.
>you can see them clearly
We can because we're the audience and the angle zoomed in close on his thighs. Setsuna's looking at this.
Are you intentionally trolling? You must be.
They've examined the Throne suits in detail by this point in this story. This isn't the first time Setsuna has seen their suits either.
You are either trolling, or you've forgotten the show already. Almost Everytime you make a post, several anons correct you and you end up having to take back your words or dance around trying avoid admitting you were wrong.
This isn't even good shitposting. The thread hit bump limit a long time ago.
I noticed whenever you are backed into a corner you just copy the insults used against you and call others shit posters. You get called a 00 shitposter and you just copy the insult. This is pathetic.
I'm not even the one arguing with you, dumbass.
>I'm not even the one arguing with you, dumbass.
Post the (you) screenshot within 2 minutes of this post. Or I'll assume you are lying, or attempting to use Photoshop.
I'll do it for him, the one you were arguing with, not the one you're replying to right now.
Stop arguing with the 00gay.
He's just going to switch between his mobile phone and computer to fake it.
>2 obvious fangs
I swear this is one guy arguing in favor of shit and shitposting.
It is, he keeps trying a narrative that "everyone is against you" to try and disguise it. Everyone being, at most, 2 people in the event it's not some lunatic seedgay samegayging.
Samegay
All your posts are full of half truths and hidden lies. You try to pretend Setsuna is some funnel destroying expert, but leave out entire sections that go against what you say. We all saw 00 Gundam. You aren't going to get away with lying to us. This is why no one acknowledges your interpretation. You jump from one extreme to another, and you lie.
What section did I leave out?
Dunno why you gays keep making Setsuna fight Kira. It's a terrible match up for Setsuna. Kira loves long range battles. Setsuna is a close range specialist. A better match up would be Shinn or Athrun.
he's already fought two range heavy opponents and did well against them, even winning the former. and 00R isn't lacking in range options. The problem is seedgays heavily discounting GN hax.
So you do admit Setsuna relies on his I WIN button to get through battles
You lost. Get over it.
%3D
Aww, that's adorable. Did anyone else catch that flub?
The average Setsunatard's tactics involve shuffling events around in order to confuse people with false positives.
Example: S1 Setsuna is better than Kira because Movie Setsuna can kill a Zaku equivalent while using a S1 grunt.
This while completely neglecting to mention the Flag is specially modified and upgrade by Ian Vashti + Celestial Being engineers. Not GN no, but do you really think an idiot like Setuna who only survived S1 because he was piloting a super machine against technologically inferior MS could survive if the situation was reverse? He's not Graham Aker remember?
Flag only has gn sword and smoke chaffs. It litterally depends on the pilot gitting gud to do shit
And yes. He still got shit done with badly damaged exia till the start of s2.
Now I dont see kira ever getting far without freedom. He got his ass horribly kicked in a strike
>zaku equivalent
Peak moron. Gn-x is almost s1 gundam tier. Its the flag thats zaku tier.
You guys really can only use S1 Setsuna in this argument. Did you only watch the first season of 00? I don’t blame you if so but you shouldn’t talk about 00R and Setsuna in it if that’s the case.
>b-but muh teleportation and slow-ass gigantic beam saber!!!!
>Setsuna is a close range specialist
I know that he has a sword but this is a dumb opinion. 00 has a shitton of beam power.
Setsuna literally says it himself
That doesn't mean he never fires his guns.
>That doesn't mean he never fires his guns.
No one is claiming that. But Setsuna is definitely better at melee than he is at long range.
Are you forgetting that Setsuna is a nut for throwing his swords at his opponents on top of having guns and not being too outmatched in ranged battles? I’m not even saying Setsuna would win in the end but come on now, he’s had plenty of battles with ranged opponents where he made an effort to close the distance. The problem with this conversation is acting like Setsuna just monkeys his way into his enemies instead of having a strategy which he usually does near the end of S2
Shinn is definitely a good match up for Setsuna.
00R can easily speed blitz SF and end before Kira knew what hit him. SF too slow for 00R and Kira have trouble against skilled pilots in mobile suits with comparable or superior performance than his mobile suit. Easy win for 00R and Setsuna.
1. Strike Freedom
2. 00 Raiser
(power gap)
3. Caliburn
>entering powerlevel wankery with pinoy sneedgays
>ever
No one is even saying Setsuna would kick Kira’s ass, everyone is just pointing out how stupid it is to think Setsuna can’t use strategies or abilities against him just cause. This entire conversation has just been someone implying Setsuna would be a sitting duck or unable to do something he’s clearly shown to be able to do.
> No one is even saying Setsuna would kick Kira’s ass
I haven't been saying it, but I do think that it's true since you've brought it up. Less because I think Setsuna is a particularly great pilot though, and more because I think Kira is kind of a particularly bad pilot who coasts on overwhelmingly strong units relative to his competition, and because the Strike Freedom isn't actually that strong or fast outside it's setting. Also because Kira isn't the only one with plot armor once you match him against other protagonists.
>No one is even saying Setsuna would kick Kira’s ass
I am
Majority of the people agree that Setsuna is a better pilot than Kira and 00 Raiser is a faster and more powerful mobile suit than Stroke Freedom.
>Majority of the people agree that Setsuna is a better pilot than Kira and 00 Raiser is a faster and more powerful mobile suit than Stroke Freedom.
>Majority of the people agree
>Majority
No "we" don't. You can literally count the posts supporting Kira and Strike Freedom in this thread. The majority of posts support Kira or say Strike Freedom would win in the end.
Honestly it’s not one way or the other, it’s relatively even between the two of them both in people who think one would win over the other and in terms of what most people are saying. Setsuna deals with funnel spam just fine and the speed difference is negligible. In the end it comes down to who can wear down the other first.
if you read the first few post you'll get that impression. But by the middle and the latter parts of the threads. You'll see more in favor with 00, plus most pro 00 posts are backed with evidence. webm count alone justifies this notion
>if you read the first few post you'll get that impression
There is no impression. I counted the posts. Strike Freedom is the majority by a fair margin.
>webm count alone justifies this notion
From what I can see half of them are unrelated webms. And the other half are webms where they are taken out of context or edit out parts. That's not evidence. That's spam.
Majority of posts support Kira? It just one Seedgay and his zealous campaign in an attempt to wank off Kira.
Because we actually use evidence shown on screen. Not your hypothetical scenario in your head where Setsuna is somehow a perfect pilot. He isn't.
In the show, characters point out that Setsuna's piloting scores aren't that good, and they wonder why he was even chosen as a pilot. They even say that he's relying on Exia's technological advantage to win fights and that he lacks piloting skill. We find out he wasn't even supposed to be chosen as a pilot.
And you keep using S1 Setsuna as an example when we’re talking about end of S2 00R Setsuna who has spent a few years needing to rely on his skills and strategies as a pilot to evade A-Laws and Federation capture. Why do you need to keep using the obviously inexperienced Setsuna to make your argument? No one thinks S2 Setsuna is perfect either but the thread has shown scenes where he makes it clear he’s become a better pilot and strategizer.
Are people going on about Strike Freedom's speed because it has Voiture Lumiere and Stargazer is the fastest CE mobile suit?
Stargazer's VL is a solar sail that gives very little thrust compared to conventional engines. It has the highest top speed because a sail has near-zero power consumption and in space you can just keep accelerating forever.
SF's version works completely differently, emitting the light directly as thrust.
>decades later and seedgays still can't rebuke him
Kira is overated, and destiny was a mistake.
stock footage spam doesn't make your suit stronger. It just means your show has no budget to animate real fights.
HOW FAST IS THE COMBAT VERSION OF VOITURE LUMIERE, SEEDgayS?
THERE'S NO NUMBERS
The thing is that Kira is the strongest pilot in the entire Seedverse. He is simply that good. He's presented as DNA perfect. It's in his blood to be the best, and Kira learns skills in fraction of the time it would take others. And he's much better than others when he does learn the same skills. By the end of Seed Destiny, Kira is an absolute monster. He can't even get scratched by the best pilots ZAFT has available. Strike Freedom isn't even damaged by the end of show. Some people hate it and think it's Absurd, but that's what the Seed director wants. Kira is perfect.
By contrast, Setsuna isn't the strongest pilot in his own universe. He's not even an average pilot. He's very weak and relies on his suits to carry him hard. There are people much better than him. What makes Setsuna special is that he's DETERMINED and won't give up. It's his main character trait. He believes in helping humanity. Setsuna is not even close being a perfect pilot, but he won't be tempted by evil like Ribbons or other characters. They try to tempt him to change sides several times, but he would rather die than become evil. By the end of the show he does improve in skill, but Setsuna still isn't the best. It's his friends and comrades who believe in him that support him. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is missing the entire point of Setsuna's character. He's purposely not the best. The director wanted a flawed human being.
I like Setsuna as a character more. He's more interesting to me, and has a tragic backstory that explains who he is and why he does what he does. But Kira on paper is a much better pilot. I don't like Kira, but even I admit he is the perfect pilot. That's just how it is for him. Setsuna is a better character but Kira is a much better pilot.
We aren’t talking about who’s a better pilot on paper and Setsuna doesn’t have to be the best overall when he’s consistently competing with them where even other meisters wouldn’t have been able to do as much. In practice, Setsuna by the end of S2 is incredibly versatile and he knows how to rely only on his skills and strategies because that’s what he had to do to continue his interventions for the 4 years in between S1 and S2 where the tech was constantly working against him and his suit was busted up. Kira can be a perfect pilot on paper but in terms of actual combat ability and prowess, Setsuna’s experience coupled with his suits give him an edge that, at the very least, would mean he’s on the same level as Kira for whom it comes effortlessly.
>tries to argue Setsuna is the best
You are missing the entire point of Setsuna's character. That's not what the director wanted.
The director’s intention was to show how Setsuna grew both as a person and how he was starting to grow as an innovator. For his ideals he had to become a contradiction. He loves peace but he’s an excellent fighter and his determination extends both to his wish for communication and his wish to rid the world of things that corrupt it. Setsuna isn’t the best and I never said he was, I simply want it to be know that Setsuna does whatever he can to make sure he can live and continue to protect the ideal world he wishes for which includes learning how to strategize as a pilot and take out the people who get in his way with no intention of talking or stepping down.
>kira is a much better pilot
Explain this
In contrast to this
Setsuna wins because his got experience fighting against enemies above his tier constantly. Meanwhile Kira had to stock footage and asspull his way out of trouble, and he was lucky as frick there were rau tier enemies at destiny.
>Setsuna wins because his got experience fighting against enemies above his tier constantly. Meanwhile Kira had to stock footage and asspull his way out of trouble, and he was lucky as frick there were rau tier enemies at destiny.
You say that but for most of Season 1 Setsuna piloted a mobile suit 3 generations ahead of everything else. He was being carried by the performance of Exia, how else was he able to beat pilots with decades of experience above him? The first time he fought a peer was when Ali got Throne Zwei and he was losing BADLY. The only reason he survived that was because Alejandro just COINCIDENTALLY decide to kill Aeolia at around the exact time, activating Trans-Am and giving Setsuna his I WIN button.
Its only in Season 2 where Setsuna is seriously challenged regularly, and even then he keeps using his automatic I WIN button whenever he nearly loses. Its only when Innovades start attacking that Trans-Am loses its automatic I WIN value, but almost immediately after he gets the 0-Riser to keep his technological advantage. Finally it was only when Masurao appeared when he realized the enemy will get their own I WIN button too that he really needed to step up.
>losing badly
even before that he was doing well 1v3, its 2v3 where the odds are greatly changed to his favor. trinity's were the shit pilots carried by strong suit. Now factor in GNX and alejandro and the exia was still intact throughout the fight.
Setsuna's main problem will be his always going to get jumped by strong opponents after going through a hard battle
also I like to give credit to 00 grunts for not being complete shit in contrast to their seed counterparts who exist to be background fodder.
>[citation needed]
1. You can't just say "Citation needed" whenever you disagree with someone. That's not what the phrase means.
2. It's not the number of webm that matters. It's the quality of webms and evidence. Everytime you posted a webm someone responded and explained why you were mistaken. I agree for the most part. So there's no need for me to say anything.
For example, you made a claim that beam shields can be broken in Seed. Then someone replied that no beam shield was ever broken in Seed and posted Destiny tanking Destroy Gundam's massive energy blast. Then you ignored the post and didn't say anything. Half of this thread is just you making these claims and getting corrected by others. Then you make another random claim and repeat the cycle.
Just say you think Kira is the best and can’t be beaten and leave it at that. When you’re this blinded by your own bias that you can’t even properly theorize how a fun hypothetical fight could don’t actually care about the fight, just making your protag look better than the others.
Yes it is. The burder of proof is on you. And you seedgays consistently fail at providing evidence.
GSD d is a shittly written show. Mean it's also inconsistent as frick. Here's a scene where freedom can't tank blast from legend
factor in the suit and their bs meter. And 00R will still win because GN particles are broken
I don't think Kira is good match for Setsuna. He's too OP with plot hax. It would also be a boring fight. It would just be Strike Freedom shooting at 00 Raiser from long range for the entire battle. And 00Raiser trying to chase Strike Freedom. Instead Setsuna should fight Shinn. 00Raiser VS Destiny would be a better fight. They would actually clash with their swords and it would be debatable on who is a better pilot
Why do you keep trying to change who’s fighting? No matter who wins or loses the fun of these types of questions is theorizing how the fight plays out, it’s not about swords clashing specifically, if you want that you should make your own thread.
kira can't even win against rau, and he lost to pre destiny shinn. His easily outwittable. Meanwhile Setsuna has fought consistently with hard foes like graham and ali. Eventually in s2 surpassing both.
tl;dr Kira gets preferential treatment while Setsuna actually legit works hard and gets shit done in the process.
let's see kira do something like thi-
>loses limbs and stupidly ditches the still loaded backpack
>Setsuna VS Shinn
I agree but It's been suggested many times already.
One anon doesn't like the suggestion because he hates Kira and wants to keep the debate about Kira. Most of us think Kira would win or it would be a boring battle to watch at the very least.
I think it’s more interesting to have a back and forth as opposed to just an outright melee fight. Sorry that I prefer to see pilots use some sort of strategy instead of just unga bunga with their swords.
Shinn is perfectly capable of using strategy. He would analyze 00 Raiser and figure out its weak points.
problem is setsuna actually goes for the kill where kira doesn't. Thats a key part of his strategy. 00r vs destiny would be even more curbstompy since destiny speed burst is even more limited than trans-am and palma falciona cannot counter legit melee weapons
>problem is setsuna actually goes for the kill where kira doesn't.
This is a lie. Stop lying. Setsuna spares so many people. Celestial Being had a no kill policy whenever possible. Do you know how many times Setsuna spared characters? Or how many times he let the Innovades live? Setsuna even let Ali Al Sanchez live. Stop lying.
That's called using your brain. Something 99% of the cast of GSD don't fricking use. It's a well thought out plan, plus the fact his one of the few pilots who exploited his no kill policy.
>shown to have multiple range attacks
>can fricking throw his sword with pinpoint accuracy
>matching trans-am
Also you're a moronic seedgay. 00R hax is legit and is shown in anime. Seed doesn't, not even stock footage.
Shinn doesn't even use his brain like that other guy claimed. The entire game plan against Freedom was thought off by Rey. Seed ace pilots are honestly overrated. They greatly benefit from the fact that vast majority of the pilots in the Seed setting prefer to remain stationary when firing their range weapons instead of maneuvering around or hiding behind cover. Even mediocre pilots like Lunamaria is considered an ace pilot because she had the foresight to dodge sometimes.
he still had to pull it off. It's moments where a group works together is such a rarity in seed. So I'll give them credit for that.(before everyone's iq goes down to single digits after that arc)
meant for this
The no kill policy is ONLY for civilians. And innovade suits have core fighter wienerpits. The only pilot he really spared was graham
>The no kill policy is ONLY for civilians
Stop freaking lying. He spared Sergei and let him live. He spare Ali and let him live. He spared Andrei and let him live. Etc etc. Stop spreading lies.
>he spared sergei
the tieren was considered knockout
>andrei
plot armored
>ali
-escaped due to trans-am running out
-escaped via core fighter
Your back must hurt since keep bending over backwards to make up these exceptions.
You layed examples and I answered them thoroughly. And 00R still stomps anything in sneed.
Technically the no kill policy is meant for suits that either can’t fight or people who are escaping. That’s really the only time that really applies. Setsuna will go for the kill most of the time but later on he starts to prioritize his life a bit more so he’s not going to get himself hurt trying to kill someone who’s fleeing.
Yeah I'll call bs even for this one. CB mows down dozens of people throughout the show.
Character who did survive against CB were important plot characters, hence they have to be given an out temporarily
He's getting confused because the Thrones are described as more brutal and they have a throwaway line where the trinities are scoffing at them not killing pilots if they don't have to.
Generally speaking if a suit is immobilized, fleeing, or CB has the luxury to aim to disarm, S1 CB won't go for the kill. But if their hand is forced then they shoot to kill. This goes out the window for S2 because ALAWS are ontologically evil
in other words they're complying with geneva conventions, and thats a bad thing why?
You'll have to ask him.
Because if you dont kill the opposing pilot, you are a bad pilot. Hence why Kira sucks ass and is a bad pilot.
The only person confused is you. You can't even remember the anime properly and are just making up weird headcanon.
The Thrones are called more brutal because they are willing to destroy civilian targets like factories or research facilities. The original CB Gundams only targetted military bases. The Thrones won't limit themselves.
And? They like killing? Setsuna didn't attack the Thrones because of their attitude. He attacked them because of them targeting civilians. You want to me to post a screenshot of CB complaining about it? Stop with this nonsense anon.
Hey gay, this conversation started with two people bickering that CB does/not kill enemy pilots. I said that one was confused because there was a line from the trinities that said they don't kill enemies unless they have to, which is reinforced by the show of them not chasing downed/retreating suits but also killing if they have to.
You then decided, for seemingly no good reason, to take issue with the first half of my post to start some moronic tangent. Please stop sucking wiener for 5 minutes.
That line doesn't mean what you think it means. CB has no problems killing people. Virtue Gundam alone probably kills dozens of people with each beam blast. Or Kyrios when it does its bombing runs. The Trinities are complaining that CB is soft and won't actually attack targets that aren't military bases or armies. That's why CB is so shocked when they hear the Trinities are attacking factories full of civilian workers. These factories supply the military with weapons.
But I guess I can't expect much from a speed watcher like you.
Kyrios always sent out a warning before the bombing runs and Virtue only ever attacks enemy pilots who are fighting, not retreating. You’re being stupid. Of course Celestial Being kills people but they only kill people they have to, they give people who want to escape or can’t hurt them a clear pass when it comes to their killings. That’s not hard to get.
So you admit you were wrong about CB not killing people. Good.
No one said they didn’t kill people outright, just that they had a policy of not killing if the person couldn’t fight or was escaping. I think you misunderstood what “no kill policy” meant and took it too literally.
No. This whole argument started because you said Setsuna actually "goes for kill unlike Kira" and tried to act smug that Setsuna was better than Kira.
Then several anons pointed out you were wrong. That Setsuna spares several characters for no reason. And now you are trying chameleon shift and pretend you never said that. You were wrong about Setsuna. You admitted it. Move on and gtfo.
>That Setsuna spares several characters for no reason.
Don't forget wbere the 00gay came up with some dumb reasons why Setsuna sparing those characters don't count as his statement being wrong.
I wasn’t the one who said it in the first place and again, we’re talking about S2 Setsuna where he often does go for the kill initially. The caveat for the no kill policy is if the enemy literally isn’t a threat anymore or wishes to escape. Setsuna for the better part of S2 does not fight to let people off. I never said Setsuna was better than Kira or anything of the sort. Most of this thread has been anons trying to wank off Kira and make Setsuna out to be incompetent when both of them are just fine as pilots. Kira tries to spare while S2 Setsuna usually tries to kill outside of his 2 conditions where he won’t. It’s not very hard to understand that Kira initially tries not to kill but may end up doing so while Setsuna tries to kill and stops if given the opportunity to. This makes neither one better than the other.
WHERE IN ANY OF MY FRICKING POSTS DID I SAY CB DIDN'T KILL PEOPLE, YOU DIPSHIT?
moron
Seedgays are truly illiterate.
Please read the sentence Michael says again. Nowhere does it says they don't kill people, only if they feel it's necessary. Setsuna didn't make his grand entrance by killing Patrick. The enacts he and Lockon also shoot down are immobilized, not blown up. But the terrorists who attacked HRL's space station's ass were grass.
reminder that he lost to someone who can actually think.
Destiny was an overall downgrage to shin since his combat style is all about blindsighting his opponents with module spam. Something luna never manage to emulate,
Again kira gets hard carried by hard writing in the show that even SRW shits on him for it
>Destiny was an overall downgrage to shin since his combat style is all about blindsighting his opponents with module spam.
That's not a combat style. That was desperation to come up with some plan because his Impulse suit was very underpowered. He needed to come up with something.
Shinn is actually very savy and intelligent. If Destiny Gundam and 00 Raiser clash, then Shinn will immediately notice Setsuna isn't quite as good at accurate long range shooting compared to close range. Or he'll notice how Setsuna gets overwhelmed when he fights a suit that catch match his speed. Or Setsuna's tendency to throw his weapons during battle. It only takes a few clashes to discover your opponents style and habits. I also don't think the GN Field can block an Anti-ship sword stabbing against it. GN fields get pierced by beam sabers.
00R is faster than SF. Not even a debate. 00R is more likely to catch up to SF than SF is to hit 00R or damage 00R.
00 > calibarn > sf
Both 00 and calibarn can do more than just firepower and speeding. And 00 is busted in general. Calibarns gunbits are also much more aggresive than freedoms dragoons, and kira isnt really that good against legit strong opponents, so sulleta alone should be more than enough to even the odds.
SF's DRAGOONs are just laughable. Can't function in the atmosphere and isn't multiple functional. Had to retcon in beam tips on the DRAGOONs because they were hilariously underpower compared to the drone weaponry that came after it.
Shinn couldnt even kill Kira and Athrun despite stabbing them both in the wienerpit with his anti-ship sword. What a massive incompetent.
So does this mean seedgays are still worse than gwokegays?
You must not have been here this morning when one of them spammed Kira in the catalogue.
Can i get a damage report?
https://desuarchive.org/m/search/deleted/deleted/type/op/filter/text/start/2023-07-07/
Oh wow the mods did a job for once
This thread is just two 00gays replying to themselves and samegayging. SRW? Lmao.
Setsuna is a good pilot by the end of series but he had issues with the Innovades and Ribbons. When the Innovades gained Trans-am Setsuna had big problems countering them. The Innovades would match 00 Raisers speed. So I would have to give it to Kira. Strike Freedom was so fast that Destiny Gundam with Wings of Light turned on couldn't catch Strike Freedom.
Innovades have a crutch with veda. Hence the moment they lost that connection. Rape ensued
And no seed gets stomped by 00 anyday anytime. Even the fricking flag can kill high tier suit if its piloted by an ace
Get over it seedgays. You can't spam or lie out of this one.
I don't know what you are trying to prove. Those were untrained workers piloting those GN-X suits. No sweat for any trained pilot.
Im proving seedgays are moronic.
Where are all these Setsunatards coming from? Is it all one guy? 00 Raiser was strong but it wasn't some untouchable amazing beast that couldn't be damaged. Ribbons Gundam was smacking 00 Raiser around and Setsuna couldn't touch Ribbons without a smoke screen, Arios coming in to help, and Tieria messing with Ribbon's eyes.
And how many fricking times are we going thru this shit.
Sf and kira never went through the same ordeal cb gang did. Kira woukd get his shit kicked if he actually fought someone like rau in gsd. But he got off easy with bad writing.
>kira woukd get his shit kicked if he actually fought someone like rau in gsd
Kira literally fought Rey who is Rau's Clone
Rey is nerfed rau in everyway
And even now kira still can't refute rau
%3D%3D
Gsd lacked a proper villain. Though more like it couldn't afford one. Says a lot about the show's quality
%3D
I don't understand you. First you make these false claims. Then when proven wrong you jump all over the place. You can't even stay on one topic.
Kira only defeated Rey because Rey suffers from the same disease that every other pilot in Seed is plague with. Remain immobile and allowing Kira to deliver the decisive blow.
>Arios coming in to help, and Tieria messing with Ribbon's eyes
Holy copium
?? Where is the problem? It's a all truth. Battle Setsuna had Arios, the Ptolemy, and Tieria helping him fight Ribbons. Setsuna isn't supposed to be the strongest. He's supposed to be the most determined. People want to help Setsuna win.
You are obsessed with Setsuna being the best when it simply isn't true.
Arios showed up and did nothing, Tieria tried talking to Ribbons one last time and resulted in Reborns popping Trans Am
They were no help, not even as a distraction
the only actual help was the smoke screen that let Setsuna get in for a surprise attack now that his beams were weakened. By the time Trans Am was used the smokescreen was gone as well as the nerf to his weapons
>You are obsessed with Setsuna being the best when it simply isn't true.
I don't know who you were talking to cus I'm just reading through now but the issue is that you're bullshitting what happened
>Arios showed up and did nothing,
He forced Ribbons to use up several fangs to deal with Arios. It used up vital ammunition that Ribbons was planning on using for 00 Raiser.
>Tieria tried talking to Ribbons
>They were no help, not even as a distraction
Ribbons got hit several times while talking to Tieria. He was distracted by Tieria and it clearly worked.
>the only actual help was the smoke screen that let Setsuna get in for a surprise attack now that his beams were weakened.
Ribbons Gundam got an arm sliced off because of that smoke screen. It was a massive help to Setsuna.
>you're bullshitting what happened
Nibba you can't even remember what happened. Stop posting.
>He forced Ribbons to use up several fangs to deal with Arios.
2 small GN Fangs that Setuna dealth with with no issue, wow
>Ribbons got hit several times while talking to Tieria.
Superficial damage that had no effect on the suit
>Ribbons Gundam got an arm sliced off because of that smoke screen. It was a massive help to Setsuna.
That's what I said, I get you wanna b***h about EVERYTHING but come on
>Nibba
Frick you homie
>2 small GN Fangs that Setuna dealth with with no issue, wow
No anon. We're talking about ammo that Ribbons was forced to use to deal with Arios. That was ammo he was saving for Setsuna.
>Superficial damage that had no effect on the suit
Setsuna destroyed an entire leg, shield (along with the rack that held GN fangs), and one of the wing binders that also held GN fangs. Then Setsuna drop kicked the suit. Tieria's distraction worked great.
>That's what I said, I get you wanna b***h about EVERYTHING but come on
That's not what you said at all. You completely avoided typing it. He got an arm sliced off. That's huge. All thanks to the Ptolemy ship helping Setsuna.
How long are you going to keep doing this? Lying about the anime, then getting corrected, and then raging when you don't get your way. Im not even a huge Seed fan, but it's clear you aren't even posting in good faith. You are just straight up.
>That was ammo he was saving for Setsuna.
Cus that's how that works suddenly
>Setsuna destroyed an entire leg, shield (along with the rack that held GN fangs), and one of the wing binders that also held GN fangs. Then Setsuna drop kicked the suit. Tieria's distraction worked great.
That's not what happened
>You completely avoided typing it. He got an arm sliced off. That's huge
Holy shit your dumb
>How long are you going to keep doing this?
2 posts is a lot now