>Angel born 1727 >Turned vampire 1753 at 26 >1898 got cursed >1996: Angel is biologically 26, reborn with a soul since 98 years, and overall 269 years old >This is the year he first starts to creep on a 15 year old Buffy and falls in love with her
How is this allowed?
>met when Buffy was 16/17 >hates himself for trying to rape Buffy (she was too old for him) >conveniently only gets his soul back when Buffy has a house full of high school girls >actor proceeds to write love ballad about his teenaged co-star
What did they mean by this
Buffy was like 20-22 with Spike and he was the rebound after the manipulative predator. Spike gets his souls back around then so probably could be considered what ever age he was turned at mentally (maybe, does a demon wanting to return the soul to the body get replaced, or is demon spike merged with human spike?)
She dates a safe old guy to have power over the heart break from the other old predatory guy who fricked her as a teen.
In Whedon follow up comics Spike and Buffy get back together, but then she dumps him when she realizes the only work as a couple stopping apocalypses and fighting demons and they (all her) can’t relate in a boring domestic life. She then tries to string him along with the just be friends horseshit because she can’t actually let him go and was but hurt he was moving on.
It was left in limbo, as there was plans to bring Buffy back with Gellar and crew and Gellar didn’t really like Spike and Buffy after the rape. Then Joss got canceled.
Buffy was also immensely fricked up from the time of spike on. It’s hard to say she is a teenager then, that whole era she has been ripped back from the afterlife and isn’t the same personality who died.
All of his "Spike" persona is just him being a poser. He never stopped being Mama's Boy William who only wanted to be loved by a woman. Cecily, Drusilla, then Buffy.
Liam was rotten and Angelus was evil. Yet, Liam was just an ass, he was never really "evil". When he got his soul back, he realised all things he did and that's why he's now trying to find redemption, because he would have never been a vampire if he had been a good son.
Spike, otoh, has always owned what he did as a vampire. He acted like he knew that was what he was meant to do and now with a soul, he can do good.
Spike wins as a better person, imo. But Angel whole arc is more interesting.
Drusilla had powers when she was human. Maybe that has something to do with it. She sired him, not Angelus. Can't remember the whole lore, but there was some mention that she was close to a saint or could have been one. She was turned crazy, she wasn't born that way. I suppose she was meant to be a force of good, which make a her fate sadly ironic. Makes sense Spike got that force too and became what she couldn't be.
But they're completely different personalities.
It's just that he chose to emulate his vampire personality because he's useless as his old momma's boy self.
no they aren't, he's EXACTLY the same
angelus cucks him, he acts exactly as he did before he was turned
gets his soul back, keeps acting exactly like he did before
his personality changed over time between when he became a vampire and when he showed up in season 2, but whenever he supposedly loses or gains his soul, there isn't an immediate change in how he acts
If he wasn’t that way why would he choose to get his soul back?
I think at least for Spike the soul light switch simply turns on and off his capacity for empathy and a bit of impulsiveness. He has the same wants and desires with our with out it.
so he just lucked into getting a demon who is his doppelganger?
7 months ago
Anonymous
I think the demon is created out of the core memories, but the anon up thread might have a good idea. Dru had visions and maybe that guided her to picking the guy who would have made a shitty vampire
7 months ago
Anonymous
dru putting the right demon in william seems plausible, but i thought it was explained that the demons exist independently of their hosts and one just jumps in. so while spike gained william's memories, he existed before that and already had a personality.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I think the host informs the personality of the demon once it jumps in. When willow was a vampire she asked Buffy about it because she was loose and gay and was asking if that was really her.
Angel was going to say it was an aspect of her before Buffy cut him off.
7 months ago
Anonymous
It makes sense because Angelus had the same careless personality that Liam had.
Harmony also is as vain and annoying as she was when she was alive.
And, the most important, Dru retained her insanity. One would think she got "cured" of that like that kid who wanted to be a vampire because he was dying. Dru retained her powers and the insanity that Angelus caused her. I think this confirms that vampires take or retain something to their new unlife.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>I think this confirms that vampires take or retain something to their new unlife.
Angel even says this to Buffy in Doppelgangland:
>Buffy: A vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person they were >Angel: Well, actually... >Buffy gives him a look >Angel: Good point
7 months ago
Anonymous
>I think this confirms that vampires take or retain something to their new unlife.
Angel even says this to Buffy in Doppelgangland:
>Buffy: A vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person they were >Angel: Well, actually... >Buffy gives him a look >Angel: Good point
This, just about every vampire whose origin/siring we saw on the show was basically the same person but more willing to do heinous acts. A lot of what they become as a vampire isn't a result of demons taking over their body, it's just the natural result of people growing and adapting to their circumstances. I don't think an interdimensional hellscape entity is what made Spike like The Sex Pistols, for example. It's the fact that he was a doting momma's boy that had to learn to fit in with his new edgy friends after his mother made mocking, incestuous remarks toward him for trying to cure her terminal illness. The siring isn't what hardened Spike, it's all the shit he went through afterward.
I think anon is saying why did the spike personality bleed over to William Pratt
Angelious demon personality and Liam/ Angel personality are separate personalities
7 months ago
Anonymous
>I think anon is saying why did the spike personality bleed over to William Pratt
I explained that:
But they're completely different personalities.
It's just that he chose to emulate his vampire personality because he's useless as his old momma's boy self.
The show was pretty explicit about that. IIRC Buffy literally told him she needs the old Spike back and then he started emulating his Spike personality.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I haven’t watched it in like 12 years so I’m arguing about stuff I only have nostalgia for.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Well there you go, spike is a giant simp who would eat a bowl of broken glass and reaper peppers for Buffy if she told him too
7 months ago
Anonymous
Liam and Angel are also different personalities. Angel ain't at all like Liam. Angel is responsible and caring, Liam was a full time butthole.
When Angel took Dru and tried to destroy the world. he ran straight to Buffy to help her stop them, both because he wanted Dru back and because he simply didn't want to destroy the world.
He's always been a goody goody, he's just having fun being an evil vampire because he was often shunned when he was alive. Angelus didn't just had a good time being bad, he was bad naturally.
Meh Sandy and his wife from the O.C. Were kino together when there wasn’t drama between them and were acting as a unit. It just doesn’t get done much, I don’t think writers have cooled in their dysfunctional lives to emulate
Happy healthy relationships are boring so they either drag out a will they/won't they forever or force some drama into it to end it again.
Buffy is also just a notorious b***h to her boyfriends, though. It's a pretty common opinion that every relationship Buffy has ever been in was at least a little bit abusive on her end.
Angel > Spike
Cyclops > Wolverine
Goku > Vegeta
Superman > Batman
I always favor the boy scouts over the bad boys. I also play games like Fallout as the super good guy.
>not using the drivable motorcycle mod and becoming a road warrior who massacres every homosexual that gets between you and an ounce of gasoline
ngmi anon
i remember back in the day when i was watching buffy (i had seen angel first) i made a post on the imdb board for buffy about how i generally preferred angel but the s4 finale of buffy was better than most angel episodes.
the people there tore me a new butthole over saying i prefer angel, since then i've always wondered if i'm not actually moronic for preferring angel over buffy
reading this thread, i feel like i'm not, in the end. holy shit everything that happens in buffy is so cringe and moronic. even by joss whedon vampire drama standards
You are are correct, Angel was better than Buffy except for the season Whedon threw a fit over Charisma getting pregnant.
I think David Greenwalt who ran Angel for Joss had a more mature perspective to his show running.
yeah i definitely felt angel was more mature. you can say it's just because it's a non-high school setting or laugh at even calling a vampire show "mature", but i remember when i first watched it, i had just moved into a new city and started my first serious job and i felt like the person writing the plots knew what being an adult was actually like.
I truly loved how Cordelia was written in S1. She was never an airhead completely, she was just spoiled, and you could see how much she wanted Angel Investigations to function because she had lost everything else. Before Gunn and Fred arrived, the show was about becoming an adult and move on.
Did you just fricking include Beer Bad as one of the best one-offs? It didn't even accomplishment what it was created for, which was to get some of the funds for doing a PSA type episode which the office rejected because it sucked
when Angel really found its feet it was really good. But it gets really weird toward the end with the off screen drama bleeding into the plot (cordelia, etc). I def prefer Angel to Buffy. Buffy seasons 1-2 are kino but as soon as it hits the college years I want to kill myself. Sorry not sorry.
Buffy S1 was pretty rough.
Only hipster homosexuals would call it the best.
I don't think I've ever met a single person that said 1 was the best, I thought the common consensus is that season 3 was peak Buffy. Also: >filtered by Conversations With Dead People
Baka tbh senpai
Gunn was based, put some respect on his name. A drastically under-written stereotype at times, maybe, but the actor did a good job of making him essentially the straight man in a group of professional demon hunters. Other characters usually brushed him off as being rash, but he was usually right when he said they shouldn't trust someone or that they're heading into a trap. It doesn't hurt that it gave Angel a plausible reason to have connections with womens' shelters and other places he might need to go over the course of actual detective work, considering he was the only main character that was actually from Los Angeles.
>A drastically under-written stereotype at times
you think so? can you elaborate? i thought he was a shockingly well developed character, considering he stared off as a street thug
but i could just be be attributing that to the actor just not having a ghetto Black person vibe but being able to smoothly transition from playing one to not playing one.
It's pretty much all of his scenes of either being in the ghetto at the beginning or going back to it later. I think the writers for Angel learned everything they knew about street and gang culture by watching The Warriors on repeat.
Did you just fricking include Beer Bad as one of the best one-offs? It didn't even accomplishment what it was created for, which was to get some of the funds for doing a PSA type episode which the office rejected because it sucked
Fuk u I liked it
7 months ago
Anonymous
gunn is supposed to be from the hood but never actually acts like an butthole with a chip on his shoulder. he's really just there to function as an extra banter character for the writers to put words in their mouth, just like fred and lorne.
Angel had the better cast, but Buffy was the better story. At least if you ignore Buffy seasons six and seven (and even if you in turn ignore Angel season four to make it fair).
Angel had Cordelia, Wesley, Gunn, Lorne, and Fred. All great characters. Even at their worst you still care for them (minus Jasmine-Cordelia).
Buffy had Willow, Xander, and Giles, all kind of lame characters who just got worse as the show went on.
The sole exception to the main cast of Buffy being worse is that Buffy herself was a better lead than Angel.
Also, it didn't help Angel that its core cast took longer to form. Buffy had her group from episode one and just rotated out tertiary characters like Angel himself. Angel only had Cordy to begin with, Wes came in after the lamer Doyle died in season one, Gunn only started showing up at the end of season one, Lorne only showed up in season two and didn't immediately join the main cast, and Fred didn't even show up until the season two multipart finale. Buffy was pretty much already over at that point.
It had direction. Even when she didn't know what she was doing or what her goals were, the show kept enough focus to keep the audience interested. It functions better as a story.
Angel was just sort of fricking around aimlessly. It was carried entirely by its strong characters. Finales rarely felt like finales, they lacked build up and sometimes even real stakes. Pylea was fun, but it wasn't built up to and didn't really affect much, except that it once more gave us characters.
Buffy was Cap'n Crunch, Angel was Oops! All Side Quests
I still like Buffy more, but I think that was kind of the point with Angel. The show was ostensibly about him running a paranormal detective agency at first, so it only made sense for it to operate similar to a police procedural. It would be weird if they made it take three episodes (over the course of 3 weeks in the days of broadcast television) for a plot that takes place over the course of maybe a day or two max in-universe.
that's funny, i know what you're referring to but i treat it as a positive, because each season was so different and had its own feel and charm to it and i enjoyed the variety. years later i would feel the same way about agents of sneeld, which has also been called directionless but i enjoyed how each season was different. for frick's sake one season was in space and another was in a post apocalyptic future, i enjoyed that a lot
Both are bad choices, but for opposite reasons. Didn't Buffy teach you anything? They both dropped everything, the second they found out that Buffy had moved on, and started simping for her again.
So glad they both died. Neither deserved to Shanshu.
Can't remember when exactly I gave up on Buffy, but I do remember when I gave up on Angel. The episode where Cordelia sleeps with Angel's kid. Fricking soap opera shit right there, only more deranged.
Beer Bad has one of my favorite visual gags. All episode Xander is hoping for an attractive woman to ask for a light as he’s tending bar, and when one finally does ask, he’s too distracted by Buffy and holds up a No Smoking sign.
>Spike is a sigma male with mommy issues that gets handed everything without trying
Spike was the one who fought for his soul.
Angel just got it by being too much of a dick.
I guess making Drusilla as fricking batshit crazy as she became wasn't all that hard. I mean, she was a woman to start with, right? And the gypsies who cursed Angel were already predisposed to cursing people and having vendettas.
Spike beating the frick out of a random demon is just really crossing a larger hurdle.
Angel is a genuinely better character by every metric (including Boreanez acting). The doomed dude who knows he can't ever be truly redeemed for the evil shit he's done but will go down fighting for it anyways because that's just what a man does, but when he's evil he's the fricking best at it. Dude just gets shit done no matter what his goals are.
Spike is a sigma male with mommy issues that gets handed everything without trying and has no real arc or direction and always just does shit for himself while accomplishing nothing.
Plus Angel canonically fricked Numfar. In my fanfic.
>Spike is a sigma male with mommy issues that gets handed everything without trying
Spike was the one who fought for his soul.
Angel just got it by being too much of a dick.
Spike spent 12 hours in a D&D dungeon, got his soul, then acted emo for another 12 hours in the basement before coming out the exact same person with no growth or introspection. Angel spent decades bouncing back and forth from being a disconnected nihilist getting betrayed by anyone he tried to open up to to living in alleys as a fricking hobo eating rats because he was so guilt stricken. The show itself states outright that Spike's whole soul thing is nonsense.
Angel was a strange show in that tge title character is completely outshined by every other supporting character. Cordelia, Wesley, Gunn, Fred… hell even Lorne all have better stories than Angel himself.
It’s always been Spike you mentally moronic zoomer
Angel, Spike looks likes he fricks men on the side
Why do you think he was the biggest draw dummy?
The Iah2mmortal
This anon knows. The Immortal swoops in and steals whatever chicks they're hung up on.
Spike.
>cucks Xander
>cucks Angel
he could only be more based if he cucked Tara
He could have cucked Giles if he got with Joyce, too.
Spike in a fight
Angel for karaoke.
Angel is about chasing redemption.
Spike is about not knowing you got it already.
J-Joss?
Kek. I'm with anon about Spike/Angel and the Tenchu Prophecy. It was meant for Spike (and that's why Angel traded it away to the Powers That Be).
Go back to the episode where they fought over a Holy Grail of Mt. Dew. And yes, Joss can be funny sometimes.
>Angel born 1727
>Turned vampire 1753 at 26
>1898 got cursed
>1996: Angel is biologically 26, reborn with a soul since 98 years, and overall 269 years old
>This is the year he first starts to creep on a 15 year old Buffy and falls in love with her
How is this allowed?
he just be's himself
>Spike gets his soul back for the sole purpose of creeping on teenage girls
Angel wins again
Buffy was an adult when Spike became obsessed with her.
>met when Buffy was 16/17
>hates himself for trying to rape Buffy (she was too old for him)
>conveniently only gets his soul back when Buffy has a house full of high school girls
>actor proceeds to write love ballad about his teenaged co-star
What did they mean by this
>>met when Buffy was 16/17
Where he only had eyes for Dru.
Buffy was like 20-22 with Spike and he was the rebound after the manipulative predator. Spike gets his souls back around then so probably could be considered what ever age he was turned at mentally (maybe, does a demon wanting to return the soul to the body get replaced, or is demon spike merged with human spike?)
She dates a safe old guy to have power over the heart break from the other old predatory guy who fricked her as a teen.
In Whedon follow up comics Spike and Buffy get back together, but then she dumps him when she realizes the only work as a couple stopping apocalypses and fighting demons and they (all her) can’t relate in a boring domestic life. She then tries to string him along with the just be friends horseshit because she can’t actually let him go and was but hurt he was moving on.
It was left in limbo, as there was plans to bring Buffy back with Gellar and crew and Gellar didn’t really like Spike and Buffy after the rape. Then Joss got canceled.
Buffy was also immensely fricked up from the time of spike on. It’s hard to say she is a teenager then, that whole era she has been ripped back from the afterlife and isn’t the same personality who died.
Spike and Dawn together would make more sense than them making Xander and Dawn a couple in the comics.
He's hot, spends a lot of time telling Buffy how bad of an idea they are, and he's hot.
R I L E Y
I
L
E
Y
All of his "Spike" persona is just him being a poser. He never stopped being Mama's Boy William who only wanted to be loved by a woman. Cecily, Drusilla, then Buffy.
Liam was rotten and Angelus was evil. Yet, Liam was just an ass, he was never really "evil". When he got his soul back, he realised all things he did and that's why he's now trying to find redemption, because he would have never been a vampire if he had been a good son.
Spike, otoh, has always owned what he did as a vampire. He acted like he knew that was what he was meant to do and now with a soul, he can do good.
Spike wins as a better person, imo. But Angel whole arc is more interesting.
I think vampire spike is more interesting than souled spike, and Souled Liam is more interesting than vampire Angel.
What went wrong in the siring that Spike is capable of goodness even without a souls?
Drusilla had powers when she was human. Maybe that has something to do with it. She sired him, not Angelus. Can't remember the whole lore, but there was some mention that she was close to a saint or could have been one. She was turned crazy, she wasn't born that way. I suppose she was meant to be a force of good, which make a her fate sadly ironic. Makes sense Spike got that force too and became what she couldn't be.
why is spike/william the exact same personality but all the other vampires are different from their human personas?
That’s the catch
Probably why the prophecy applies to him and not other Vamps. Him and Dru were fricked up by demon standards
But they're completely different personalities.
It's just that he chose to emulate his vampire personality because he's useless as his old momma's boy self.
no they aren't, he's EXACTLY the same
angelus cucks him, he acts exactly as he did before he was turned
gets his soul back, keeps acting exactly like he did before
his personality changed over time between when he became a vampire and when he showed up in season 2, but whenever he supposedly loses or gains his soul, there isn't an immediate change in how he acts
If he wasn’t that way why would he choose to get his soul back?
I think at least for Spike the soul light switch simply turns on and off his capacity for empathy and a bit of impulsiveness. He has the same wants and desires with our with out it.
Protect Dru or have Buffy depending on timeline
so he just lucked into getting a demon who is his doppelganger?
I think the demon is created out of the core memories, but the anon up thread might have a good idea. Dru had visions and maybe that guided her to picking the guy who would have made a shitty vampire
dru putting the right demon in william seems plausible, but i thought it was explained that the demons exist independently of their hosts and one just jumps in. so while spike gained william's memories, he existed before that and already had a personality.
I think the host informs the personality of the demon once it jumps in. When willow was a vampire she asked Buffy about it because she was loose and gay and was asking if that was really her.
Angel was going to say it was an aspect of her before Buffy cut him off.
It makes sense because Angelus had the same careless personality that Liam had.
Harmony also is as vain and annoying as she was when she was alive.
And, the most important, Dru retained her insanity. One would think she got "cured" of that like that kid who wanted to be a vampire because he was dying. Dru retained her powers and the insanity that Angelus caused her. I think this confirms that vampires take or retain something to their new unlife.
>I think this confirms that vampires take or retain something to their new unlife.
Angel even says this to Buffy in Doppelgangland:
>Buffy: A vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person they were
>Angel: Well, actually...
>Buffy gives him a look
>Angel: Good point
This, just about every vampire whose origin/siring we saw on the show was basically the same person but more willing to do heinous acts. A lot of what they become as a vampire isn't a result of demons taking over their body, it's just the natural result of people growing and adapting to their circumstances. I don't think an interdimensional hellscape entity is what made Spike like The Sex Pistols, for example. It's the fact that he was a doting momma's boy that had to learn to fit in with his new edgy friends after his mother made mocking, incestuous remarks toward him for trying to cure her terminal illness. The siring isn't what hardened Spike, it's all the shit he went through afterward.
What? He want from a complete pansy reciting terrible poems to bloodthirsty punk who traveled the world to find strong people to fight.
I think anon is saying why did the spike personality bleed over to William Pratt
Angelious demon personality and Liam/ Angel personality are separate personalities
>I think anon is saying why did the spike personality bleed over to William Pratt
I explained that:
The show was pretty explicit about that. IIRC Buffy literally told him she needs the old Spike back and then he started emulating his Spike personality.
I haven’t watched it in like 12 years so I’m arguing about stuff I only have nostalgia for.
Well there you go, spike is a giant simp who would eat a bowl of broken glass and reaper peppers for Buffy if she told him too
Liam and Angel are also different personalities. Angel ain't at all like Liam. Angel is responsible and caring, Liam was a full time butthole.
When Angel took Dru and tried to destroy the world. he ran straight to Buffy to help her stop them, both because he wanted Dru back and because he simply didn't want to destroy the world.
He's always been a goody goody, he's just having fun being an evil vampire because he was often shunned when he was alive. Angelus didn't just had a good time being bad, he was bad naturally.
Whedon is really scarred by his own failures of relationships isn’t he?
This is where he leaves Buffy after 3 years of dating spike. She just sabotages it to crawl into a pit of self loathing.
She had a shot at the happy normalish life she had wanted for 15 years and she just wrecks it.
It's always like that with serialized stories.
Happy healthy relationships are boring so they either drag out a will they/won't they forever or force some drama into it to end it again.
Meh Sandy and his wife from the O.C. Were kino together when there wasn’t drama between them and were acting as a unit. It just doesn’t get done much, I don’t think writers have cooled in their dysfunctional lives to emulate
Buffy is also just a notorious b***h to her boyfriends, though. It's a pretty common opinion that every relationship Buffy has ever been in was at least a little bit abusive on her end.
He is such a simp and takes it too
He doesn’t get clingy or possessive
He just mopes around her for a year and promises to mope until she is dead
>Dawn and Xander have a life
holy shit did they go for my pseudo-incest pairing after all?
Yes they get married and have a daughter that they name Joyce
Angel
He’s so mopey though
Angel > Spike
Cyclops > Wolverine
Goku > Vegeta
Superman > Batman
I always favor the boy scouts over the bad boys. I also play games like Fallout as the super good guy.
>not using the drivable motorcycle mod and becoming a road warrior who massacres every homosexual that gets between you and an ounce of gasoline
ngmi anon
Autistic, eh?
angelus
Joyce
Spike is more fun.
i remember back in the day when i was watching buffy (i had seen angel first) i made a post on the imdb board for buffy about how i generally preferred angel but the s4 finale of buffy was better than most angel episodes.
the people there tore me a new butthole over saying i prefer angel, since then i've always wondered if i'm not actually moronic for preferring angel over buffy
reading this thread, i feel like i'm not, in the end. holy shit everything that happens in buffy is so cringe and moronic. even by joss whedon vampire drama standards
You are are correct, Angel was better than Buffy except for the season Whedon threw a fit over Charisma getting pregnant.
I think David Greenwalt who ran Angel for Joss had a more mature perspective to his show running.
yeah i definitely felt angel was more mature. you can say it's just because it's a non-high school setting or laugh at even calling a vampire show "mature", but i remember when i first watched it, i had just moved into a new city and started my first serious job and i felt like the person writing the plots knew what being an adult was actually like.
I truly loved how Cordelia was written in S1. She was never an airhead completely, she was just spoiled, and you could see how much she wanted Angel Investigations to function because she had lost everything else. Before Gunn and Fred arrived, the show was about becoming an adult and move on.
Buffy went to shit when Greenwalt and Minor left
Then Angel went to shit when they left Angel
>Beer Bad
>Hush
>Superstar
>A New Man
A lot of Buffy's best one-off/MOTW episodes were in season 4, this is a silly opinion.
Did you just fricking include Beer Bad as one of the best one-offs? It didn't even accomplishment what it was created for, which was to get some of the funds for doing a PSA type episode which the office rejected because it sucked
when Angel really found its feet it was really good. But it gets really weird toward the end with the off screen drama bleeding into the plot (cordelia, etc). I def prefer Angel to Buffy. Buffy seasons 1-2 are kino but as soon as it hits the college years I want to kill myself. Sorry not sorry.
Buffy S1 was pretty rough.
Only hipster homosexuals would call it the best.
Angel had insane peaks and valleys
I don't think I've ever met a single person that said 1 was the best, I thought the common consensus is that season 3 was peak Buffy. Also:
>filtered by Conversations With Dead People
Baka tbh senpai
it's like someone created charisma carpenter in a lab just to be my own personal perfect object of lust
Buffy has top tier babes but I think I honestly enjoyed Angel way more, also Lorne was fricking based RIP
Fred was pretty great too, even if they made her a coalburner.
Gunn was based, put some respect on his name. A drastically under-written stereotype at times, maybe, but the actor did a good job of making him essentially the straight man in a group of professional demon hunters. Other characters usually brushed him off as being rash, but he was usually right when he said they shouldn't trust someone or that they're heading into a trap. It doesn't hurt that it gave Angel a plausible reason to have connections with womens' shelters and other places he might need to go over the course of actual detective work, considering he was the only main character that was actually from Los Angeles.
>A drastically under-written stereotype at times
you think so? can you elaborate? i thought he was a shockingly well developed character, considering he stared off as a street thug
but i could just be be attributing that to the actor just not having a ghetto Black person vibe but being able to smoothly transition from playing one to not playing one.
It's pretty much all of his scenes of either being in the ghetto at the beginning or going back to it later. I think the writers for Angel learned everything they knew about street and gang culture by watching The Warriors on repeat.
Fuk u I liked it
gunn is supposed to be from the hood but never actually acts like an butthole with a chip on his shoulder. he's really just there to function as an extra banter character for the writers to put words in their mouth, just like fred and lorne.
Based on what? Whedon's interracial BBC fantasies?
Frick you. Gunn was a whiny, insecure, uppity Black person who sold his soul for a shitty van.
You're the only one with black wieners on the brain here, friendo.
You never, ever got a single date in high school, did you?
What the frick does that have to do with anything?
Angel had the better cast, but Buffy was the better story. At least if you ignore Buffy seasons six and seven (and even if you in turn ignore Angel season four to make it fair).
Angel had Cordelia, Wesley, Gunn, Lorne, and Fred. All great characters. Even at their worst you still care for them (minus Jasmine-Cordelia).
Buffy had Willow, Xander, and Giles, all kind of lame characters who just got worse as the show went on.
The sole exception to the main cast of Buffy being worse is that Buffy herself was a better lead than Angel.
Also, it didn't help Angel that its core cast took longer to form. Buffy had her group from episode one and just rotated out tertiary characters like Angel himself. Angel only had Cordy to begin with, Wes came in after the lamer Doyle died in season one, Gunn only started showing up at the end of season one, Lorne only showed up in season two and didn't immediately join the main cast, and Fred didn't even show up until the season two multipart finale. Buffy was pretty much already over at that point.
what's so special about buffy's story
It had direction. Even when she didn't know what she was doing or what her goals were, the show kept enough focus to keep the audience interested. It functions better as a story.
Angel was just sort of fricking around aimlessly. It was carried entirely by its strong characters. Finales rarely felt like finales, they lacked build up and sometimes even real stakes. Pylea was fun, but it wasn't built up to and didn't really affect much, except that it once more gave us characters.
Buffy was Cap'n Crunch, Angel was Oops! All Side Quests
I still like Buffy more, but I think that was kind of the point with Angel. The show was ostensibly about him running a paranormal detective agency at first, so it only made sense for it to operate similar to a police procedural. It would be weird if they made it take three episodes (over the course of 3 weeks in the days of broadcast television) for a plot that takes place over the course of maybe a day or two max in-universe.
that's funny, i know what you're referring to but i treat it as a positive, because each season was so different and had its own feel and charm to it and i enjoyed the variety. years later i would feel the same way about agents of sneeld, which has also been called directionless but i enjoyed how each season was different. for frick's sake one season was in space and another was in a post apocalyptic future, i enjoyed that a lot
post-apoc Sunnydale was kino
Both are bad choices, but for opposite reasons. Didn't Buffy teach you anything? They both dropped everything, the second they found out that Buffy had moved on, and started simping for her again.
So glad they both died. Neither deserved to Shanshu.
>PUMP N DUMP GIGA CHAD
>Now that the dust has settled, Angel or Spike?
Faith.
Can't remember when exactly I gave up on Buffy, but I do remember when I gave up on Angel. The episode where Cordelia sleeps with Angel's kid. Fricking soap opera shit right there, only more deranged.
Beer Bad is unironically good.
Buffy strong.
Beer Bad has one of my favorite visual gags. All episode Xander is hoping for an attractive woman to ask for a light as he’s tending bar, and when one finally does ask, he’s too distracted by Buffy and holds up a No Smoking sign.
>Why can't i stay?
;_;
I would like you to lie to me now.
I guess making Drusilla as fricking batshit crazy as she became wasn't all that hard. I mean, she was a woman to start with, right? And the gypsies who cursed Angel were already predisposed to cursing people and having vendettas.
Spike beating the frick out of a random demon is just really crossing a larger hurdle.
Angel is a genuinely better character by every metric (including Boreanez acting). The doomed dude who knows he can't ever be truly redeemed for the evil shit he's done but will go down fighting for it anyways because that's just what a man does, but when he's evil he's the fricking best at it. Dude just gets shit done no matter what his goals are.
Spike is a sigma male with mommy issues that gets handed everything without trying and has no real arc or direction and always just does shit for himself while accomplishing nothing.
Plus Angel canonically fricked Numfar. In my fanfic.
>Spike is a sigma male with mommy issues that gets handed everything without trying
Spike was the one who fought for his soul.
Angel just got it by being too much of a dick.
Spike spent 12 hours in a D&D dungeon, got his soul, then acted emo for another 12 hours in the basement before coming out the exact same person with no growth or introspection. Angel spent decades bouncing back and forth from being a disconnected nihilist getting betrayed by anyone he tried to open up to to living in alleys as a fricking hobo eating rats because he was so guilt stricken. The show itself states outright that Spike's whole soul thing is nonsense.
Buffy would have been better if it had been Drusilla cursed with a soul instead of Angelus.
God no.
Dru was terrible.
word on the street used to be that the actress was a b***h. knowing what we now know about whedon, was there any truth to that rumor?
whedon probably tried to frick her but she wouldn't let him so he started the rumours out of spite
only homosexuals and women watch this show, this is an incel board, now fricking leave
>t. Warren
They literally made a containment board for you people.
Leo b***h
>that bargain bin poopoovision show Ch*rmed
>999
Stop trying to mislead us, Australian Satan.
I dropped buffy after the episode where she ran away and her friends were huge c**ts to her, does it get better?
Angel. Better character, better actor. Solid spin-off show.
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I'm reading Hellblazer.
Ripper is a complete Constantine rip-off.
Astronauts
The real question is…
Wesley or Giles?
obviously wes has the better arc but the giles actor is insanely charismatic. he's so good i thought he was being wasted on buffy and i like buffy
Angel was a strange show in that tge title character is completely outshined by every other supporting character. Cordelia, Wesley, Gunn, Fred… hell even Lorne all have better stories than Angel himself.