>but we never get to see who are the ones pulling all the strings
its because they want you tearing each other down. the people in charge are not artists they are cowards and crooks. most animators are absolute pushovers so they are exploited with little fear of retribution.
Executives are well known to be fickle irrational frickheads in every industry, anon. It's not an cartoon-exclusive thing.
>but we never get to see who are the ones pulling all the strings
its because they want you tearing each other down. the people in charge are not artists they are cowards and crooks. most animators are absolute pushovers so they are exploited with little fear of retribution.
[...] >t. shill
Wow dude going on linkedin is so fricking difficult.
they must hate how the industry is having an identity crisis right now and thereby exposing "their control of it" and how that changes peoples perception of them and puts their managment under criticism. how humiliating, its over
This is actually true.
There is a huge amount of israeli people in media and in top positions of media.
they must hate how the industry is having an identity crisis right now and thereby exposing "their control of it" and how that changes peoples perception of them and puts their managment under criticism. how humiliating, its over
[citation needed]
What do they have to gain from making shitty cartoons?
No one wants to make a shitty project.
It's always some old frick or brat in a suit who's desperate for control to prove to himself how much of a big boy he his and backed by their generational wealth or position.
They have no talent, no interesting story to tell and have no intention of actually putting in the labor, deep down they know this and it drives them nuts.
They just want that feeling of "I did that, it was my genius that made this happen" to prove to themselves that their not losers.
In the end all they do is get in the way of the talented people actually doing shit.
>No one wants to make a shitty project.
Plenty of people do so long as they get to feel they "make a difference" for their inane politics as proven whenever one of these hacks get to run their own show.
This but unironically because we hear so much about execs, but we never get to see who are the ones pulling all the strings
These executives are the main bosses in a lot of animation work. You could name them, but then you get blacklisted for saying anything bad about them in a professional level. Same reason it’s bad to badmouth your boss online regardless of where you work at.
[...]
Isn't CN a publicly traded company? Pretty sure their board members would be publicly available information.
> In 2014, Ouweleen was named CMO of Cartoon Network, Adult Swim, and Boomerang at Turner Broadcasting System. In November 27, 2019, Ouweleen became the interim President of Cartoon Network, Adult Swim, and Boomerang due to the departure of Christina Miller. After Tom Ascheim took over the role in July 1, 2020, Ouweleen became the President of Adult Swim, reporting to Ascheim. > Ascheim acted as the president of Freeform until April 2020, when he stepped down to take the position of president of Warner Bros. Global Kids, Young Adults and Classics, a division which had oversight over Cartoon Network, Cartoon Network Studios, Warner Bros. Animation and Turner Classic Movies; his first day at the position was July 1. May 2022, following company-wide reorganizations after the Warner Bros. Discovery merger, Tom Ascheim's role was eliminated. > Once Ascheim's left following reorganizations of the Warner Bros. Discovery merger, Ouweleen became President of Cartoon Network and Boomerang once again in May 2022.
> Michael Ouweleen (born 1967) is an American television executive and screenwriter. He is the current president of The Cartoon Network, Inc. (CNI), the operating company of Cartoon Network (which includes the Cartoonito and ACME Night blocks), Adult Swim (which includes the Toonami block), and Boomerang. > Previously, he was best known as a creative, co-creating the animated television series Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law and the show's spin-off, Birdgirl, and is the executive producer of the television film Re-Animated. He was a long-time creative director at Cartoon Network since 1996, and ran content development and oversaw programming for the network in the mid-2000s.
>fricking who
It's a Disney Channel original movie musical about zombies.
Although it became more once the sequels brought in werewolves and aliens.
It even recently got its own series of animated shorts.
This just makes me realize how very few shows of worth that DTVA made after the Disney Afternoon. So much crap lol.
>pic
So there's Lord Hater, the inator guy, and...14 literal fricking whos? Seriously, I don't recognize most of these people. What is this shit? Are you even trying?
>CN's relevance in the modern era: Most know about Adventure Time, Regular Show, Gumball and Steven Universe >DTVAs relevance in the modern era: Gravity Falls, latter seasons of Phineas and Ferb... and that's it. The rest being ignored or only talked about in relatively small Tumblr/Twitter circles (also Cinemaphile)
Very few people actually watch brown girl trash
Lets see how many villains CN has. >Mojo Jojo >HIM >Ace >Princess Morebucks >Mandark >Aku >Demongo >Father >Toiletnator >Sticky Beard >Vilgax >Charmcaster >Zs'skayr >Albedo >Lich >Freaky Fred >Katz >Bendy
Who am i missing?
A ton of characters, seeing that bootleg looking literal whos are allowed. Starting with the multiverse destroying villain from the thread relevant episode and all the other OK KO villains.
>pic
So there's Lord Hater, the inator guy, and...14 literal fricking whos? Seriously, I don't recognize most of these people. What is this shit? Are you even trying?
Which is fricking baffling, because even as kids everyone loved the hints/outright links that showed that PPG, Fosters, and Samurai Jack share a universe.
Whoever it is, is based. I don't mind crossovers where it's two creative teams collabing (like KND/Grim or even SU/UG). What Ian does is just fanboy sperg his characters into another property and pretend it's somehow "respectful".
Some seem to viscerally hate the mention of older properties. This isn't unique to CN either. Every now and then you'll come across this odd disdain for past work that i've never been able to understand.
It's C-suites and presidents not wanting any credit to go to previous owners of their position. Shows made before they had the job cannot be recognized.
Adult Swim had this pitch meeting show with execs. they would rag on their old shit like Sealab like it was beneath them. it's interesting. I supposed these execs have to believe all their shit is better than the old shit otherwise they should just continue the old shows forever?
Disney really likes to market their old shit (princess, musicals, etc) while also having a mocking disdain for it.
That said, Ian sounds homosexual by blaming execucks publicly then backing off saying >I dont dislike them I just want to tell everyone how I was wronged
At least he was smart enough not to use names, but that just makes it look like there isnt a bad guy shitting up his show, despite that being pretty believable.
OK Ko was part of the What the frick is wrong with these motherfricker era
like i don't wish this to ny show even if i don't like it
The bomb format was moronic >show 5 episodes >next batch is after months
Yeah, I'm not going to trust anything Ian has to say on the matter because of course he's going to make himself sound like the victim. The reality is that, most likely, OK KO didn't actually do that well with kids and the execs cut it in response to dwindling interest.
Not shocking considering it was made for grown adults that wanted a nostalgia trip or anime references.
Anon no matter how you feel regarding that it was kind of a dark time for CN. Unless you were Teen Titans Go you were subject to only airing in the Bomb format which led to a lot of shows suffering for it. In the case with Crossover Nexus, I can believe corporate meddling happened because you would expect something like this to be at least a half hour special, and there's certain aspects of the special that felt rushed. Were the execs as seemingly spiteful of OK KO as Ian claims? Probably not, but the show was most likely axed due to the executives at the time wanting their own Spongebob with TTG which led them to judging the rest of their shows with a similar mandate of required success.
>KO >Most boring character from your wife's show >Raven, who is one of the most popular animated characters of all time
Wow, great crossover. Really pulled out all the stops here and used some obscure source material.
OK KO was always sold to me as "Adventure TIme meets Dragon Ball Z"
Part of me feels the execs hated that part because of how totally Dragon Ball Z mogged everything Cartoon Network was about > long-form serialized show > violent and brutal > action the focus instead of comedy > could get very dramatic > anatomically correct character designs > japanese
The CN executives of the Synder-era onwards were sticklers for the idea that cartoons are totally for kids, must be comedy-first, and should always be episodic. DBZ being the most popular show on American TV at one point completely invalidated a lot of American cartoonists and TV executives' worldview about how cartoons are supposed to work, a worldview built up over decades from the 1940s onwards.
Steven Universe was described to me as "Adventure Time meets Sailor Moon (and Revolutionary Girl Utena)" and Sailor Moon was episodic, so I can see a CN exec being more comfortable with it.
I'm really high tho
>OK KO was always sold to me as "Adventure TIme meets Dragon Ball Z"
Then the person selling you on it must not have really wanted you to give it a go then. I don't blame them. Was probably doing you a favor.
> Steven Universe was described to me as "Adventure Time meets Sailor Moon (and Revolutionary Girl Utena)
Lmao just because it has some refferences it doesn’t mean that it has anything to do with those. Su wish it had art direction half as good as those.
>Cartoons are totally for kids, must be comedy-first, and should always be episodic.
That's exactly why a lot of new DBZ fans skip the original Dragon Ball lmao.
>> violent and brutal >> action the focus instead of comedy >> anatomically correct character designs
Literally none of that applies to OK KO so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
>The CN executives of the Synder-era onwards were sticklers for the idea that cartoons are totally for kids
But Adveture Time, Regular Show, and Steven Universe weren't like that. OK K.O.'s problem is that it was trash, looked ugly, and held zero appeal outside of nostalgiabaiting.
>The CN executives of the Synder-era onwards were sticklers for the idea that cartoons are totally for kids, must be comedy-first, and should always be episodic.
Because comedy is cheaper to produce and gives larger returns. Fact of the matter is that anime dominated the action sector long ago and the looser regulations (even considering how heavily censored Shonen is in the West) means that it's nearly impossible for Western cartoons to compete. They just can't get away with the level of violence that helps Eastern animation really sell the tension within its works. >inb4 someone takes this as "le east vs west" bullshit
This is purely a difference in industry standards and management, and even then it's limited to children's entertainment. Western adult animation has a whole other slew of issues but that's another thing entirely.
I find crossover stories that rely on multiverse shenanigans hacky. I can give a pass to shit like Ben 10/Generator Rex since that extremely well written and you just can't fit those series in the same timeline, but like for most other CN crossovers I don't see why you can't just have them be shared universes.
Because it cost 11.64 an episode to animate. That's unacceptable by Cartoon Networks standards where nothing should ever cost more than 3.87 an episode to animate.
Ian will never say anything negative about anyone because for the off chance he'll work with them later. There was a podcast where Sonic Forces was brought up and Ian does everything in his power to find ways to speak positively of it.
Enid was bisexual and dated multiple characters including Red Action who was a woman. The two primary antagonists Boxman and Prof. Venomous were in "partnership" for large parts of S2-3 with their underlings fighting about whether to call them their "daddies' or "bosses". Multiple side characters that are heavily implied to be some kind of alphabet soup, most notably the gender neutral rabbit and the GI-JOE/Buddhist Monk paring.
It's pretty a pretty homosexual show when you get down to it but it's peace and love mentality in most of what it does makes it not feel forced (at least to me).
When your MC is constantly talking about how much he loves his "mommy" with total sincerity I have an easier time accepting the show was made by nu-wave hippies.
>How come it's fine when Teen Titans GO! does it?
The simple and boring answer is that TTGO has been so absurdly successful for so long that the writers' leash is longer. NBTS and episodes like link rel sure as hell weren't made for the six year-olds that are the usual target audience, regardless of the typical humor sprinkled in.
The majority of Executives entered the industry during the cartoon boom of the 80s. That is what shaped their perceptions of what cartoons should and shouldn't be. They are constantly chasing the ONE BIG HIT to put all their eggs in a basket on, to them a big crossover event basically indicates the show isn't the BIG HIT that can survive on it's own. They investment and paperwork to approve the crossover doesn't seem worth it in their brains. The guy who decided to punish it for them afterwards probably felt that the crossover cemented OK KO as a "failed" product because it'd never be remembered for anything besides the crossover.
Why do so many showrunners think that if the networks just pushed the shit out of their show and tripled the advertising budget, it would magically be appealing to children? There are cartoons that got the EXACT same coverage as these other shows and managed to do well with kids, such as Big City Greens, Craig of the Creek, or We Bare Bears. These shows never hit their intended audience and were never going to, no matter how many figurines, marathons or billboards they push for.
I'm not gonna say no shows get sabotaged. Mao Mao certainly didn't get a fair chance and were burned off very quickly. But shows like OK KO definitely did.
>Mao Mao certainly didn't get a fair chance and were burned off very quickly. But shows like OK KO definitely did.
Nobody really knows what went on behind the scenes with (the Mao Mao) creator and the network. Following after the S2 sneak peek debacle, with the network erasing the very existence of Mao Mao didn't help it, leaving the result remains in enigma. OK KO sorta survived past that, but without taking the beating it received in the end.
TOH's a Harry Potter x Witch Hat Atelier crossover fanfic so its target audience doesn't overlap very much with typical cartoon fans.
Dana should've Crowdfunded it like Lackadaisy.
>It'd be unironically kino if she had complete creative control over it. Frick execs.
Story of so so many shows it hurts. Horse show being a major one.
If you're going to do this shit just name names. You're never working at Cartoon Network again and you're probably never working in TV again outside of anything your wife is working on so name names.
This guy comes up with a different excuse every year to try to explain why your show failed and not once has it been, "I made something with limited appeal." I remember him saying Trump was unironically the reason the show failed.
https://www.tv.creativetalentnetwork.com/special-guest-creator-ian-jones-quartey-of-ok-k-o-lets-be-heroes >TL;DR: HBO Max was set to launch a lot earlier, with OK KO (and other more niche, not ratings-friendly CN shows) benefiting from it, but anti-trust regulation got the AT&T merger, and therefore HBO Max, heavily delayed. >No increased CN budget meant season 3 was cut from 40 to 20 episodes in Spring 2018 (right before the merger was finalized), which led to the end of the show. Ian says he wasn't the only production affected by the merger's delay. >TL;DR for the TL;DR: blame trump
>Ian [paraphrased]: "Trump specifically hated Warner because they owned CNN, so he wouldn't let that merger go through, so basically all the Warner studios got stuck in a holding pattern, and there wasn't allowed to be any new spending without having trade-offs for other things." >"Maybe if [OK KO] had come out a couple years later, it would have been streaming only and could have found its audience a little better." >"Decisions [Trump] made by holding up that merger reverberated through the whole company and I wasn't the only casualty of that." >"The [cancellation] got told to us by our series exec Conrad Montgomery who was a huge champion of the show, and he was sad because he really wanted more for us, and it was very demoralizing."
He directly said the show ended because the merger got delayed which he blamed on Trump hating Warner for owning CNN. He directly blamed Trump instead of the fact he's a hack who made a shitty, ugly show based around nostalgiabait for a very narrow group of people who were 13 at the turn of the millennium and appealed to literally nobody else.
Even if OK KO went to streaming, chances are that it would just end up being dumped on there all at once, quickly ignored, and quietly canned after one, split up season like the majority of these straight to streaming cartoons
Execs are still trying to work that out, frankly.
Right now they go by "engagement ratings" since direct data for shows gaining/retaining subs doesn't exist
No they haven't, but people still cling on pretend they do. Not that it even matters, since OK KO didn't find an audience of any kind besides adult cartoon fans, and even then they were more interested in SU at the time.
[...]
Unironcially streaming clicks and social media engagment.
Execs are still trying to work that out, frankly.
Right now they go by "engagement ratings" since direct data for shows gaining/retaining subs doesn't exist
Anime has already figured this shit out decades ago.
What matters is sales. Getting more sales for the original work (wether manga or LN or book), merchandise (heavy focus on this) and constantly seeking advertisement tie-in deals with every chain in their country. Sometimes the show are set in a regional area and feature landmarks solely to drive tourism and get the local government to pay off part of the budget.
This shit is so obvious and basic but completely alien to both the kind of morons who want to make cartoons in the west and the people who pay them to do it.
Do you know how much pricy merchandising even an irrelevant 5 minute ONA show can get? Disregarding doujin sales (which makes a small profit for hardcore fans and advertises the show) there's figures in various price classes (ranging from $30 to $300), there's phone cases, stickers, shot glasses, expensive as frick BDs with exclusive tie-ins (even shop specific ones!), keychains, art cards, t-shirts, voice dramas, voice sets etc etc.
This also means you don't shit on the fans because they're the ones whaling your shows and making you rich.
Does any show outside of Batman/Spiderman/etc get anywhere close to this treatment? (and those still shit on their whales like the morons they are at caring for their brands)
Incidentally some western companies still get this, mostly because they've been around since the 1970s when this was common knowledge.
Look at Games Workshop, (in)famous for absolutely harvesting money from every pore of their customers and selling plastic crack at outrageous prices.
How did they react when one of their writers with a fairly long track-record with them decided to boast on twitter about wanting to destroy one of their core properties by "literally emasculating" them in a way similar to cartoonists act about other people's shows?
They fired and blacklisted the guy the very same day.
The one time they felt the need to put out one of those patronizing "everyone [who can afford to throw $350+ on plastic] is welcome" messages?
They immediately followed it up with updated lines for their Crusaders, Nazi Orks and the Wehraboo/Poliou army to placate the people annoyed by their insinuations.
Tell me more!? None of that can be true; I mean, because seeing how other companies lost their backbones like Wizard of the Coast!? Games Workshop has some pants which is too good to be true!
7 months ago
Anonymous
Games Workshop aren't even that good about it in reality.
They just care more about their bottom line and preserving their brand than they do about temporary measures against bad PR.
This makes them come across as hardcore corporate sharks in contrast simply because they don't allow people to actively and openly say they're trying to sabotage them and get away with it and because they know that the people buying from them don't give a frick about "inclusivity" and aren't going to pay a cent extra for it.
>DO you really think western CEO don't make shows based on how much merch sales they can milk out of it?
I know they don't because their merchandising game is fricking weaksauce and only really done properly for ancient big properties like Spiderman.
The anime studios live by their merch sales and offloading costs on sponsors which is why even niche shows will have at least some garage resin kit, acrylic stands, straps, mugs, shirts and so on.
The exception to this is mainly Disney. They do merchandising right for new releases and no one else is even trying.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Why is the merchandising game so trash now?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Do you think parents are going to buy LGBT themed toys for their kids?
Do you think nerds are going to buy merchandise for new IPs focusing on topics they don't care about by people that not so subtly hate them?
Do you think the posters on here who actually like that shit is going to pay up for any it?
Personally I doubt even a fraction of them even own bluerays of their favorite shows.
If execs actually considered merchandising as part of their goals in the first place they wouldn't greenlight most of the shit they do.
7 months ago
Anonymous
they don't make shit people would want to buy. I don't think we need to go back to the toy commercials of the 80s but at least try to make cool shit. They make everything so ugly and not in a fun gross way.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I think the culture around toys and merch has just changed. Japan, famous for having a stupidly intricate and large merch culture, is having problems with their own children's cartoon/live action toy shows. Children today, globally, probably just prefer other things to spend money on. Not to mention economic problems hitting all the major toy buying countries to begin with doesn't help.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Boys preferring video games to shows and toys has been a very disruptive force for media merchandising.
7 months ago
Anonymous
It could have been more competitive if they made shows with cool designs. There's no modern shows that fit that.
No they haven't, but people still cling on pretend they do. Not that it even matters, since OK KO didn't find an audience of any kind besides adult cartoon fans, and even then they were more interested in SU at the time.
What matters now?
Unironcially streaming clicks and social media engagment.
Yes it's a show built entirely around Remember Thing, specifically Ian's version of Remember Thing from when he was a kid/teenager, and used an entire episode of the show to give closure to his old semi-obscure webcomic that nobody had thought about in like 15 years. It was a show narrowly targeted at a specific group of late millennials waxing nostalgic for Y2K era stuff from their middle school days. It held no appeal for anyone else. Is it any wonder why it failed and CN hated it?
>I AM JETHRO Was it a reference? Ian said he played SRB2 back in 1999 and occasionally checks on it since. He also put out a Sonic Fast Friends comic for SEGA recently that had coloring suspiciously similar to SRB2s shading style
The same reason every other sane human being hated it: because it was irredeemable dogshit. Not even the people who claim to like it actually like it, they just want to frick a massively, almost wholly unrecognizable off-model coomer version of Enid and/or Enid's mom.
Because it was made by anti-gun cucks
>world were deadly robots, dangerous magic and violent martial arts are commonplace
>but guns bad tho
amazing Ian you fricking hackgger
They acknowledged Out of Jimmy's Head.
Into Jimmy's bussy.
Probably didn’t like that Ian was a cn nerd and actually acknowledged their less talked about shows
Who are the executives
This but unironically because we hear so much about execs, but we never get to see who are the ones pulling all the strings
>but we never get to see who are the ones pulling all the strings
its because they want you tearing each other down. the people in charge are not artists they are cowards and crooks. most animators are absolute pushovers so they are exploited with little fear of retribution.
>t. shill
And you never will
These people value their privacy a lot and they spend larges amounts of money to keep it private.
>t. coward
>t. t.
Wow dude going on linkedin is so fricking difficult.
Isn't CN a publicly traded company? Pretty sure their board members would be publicly available information.
It was me
"it was the executives" is just an excuse animators make when they pussyfoot around a message
Executives are well known to be fickle irrational frickheads in every industry, anon. It's not an cartoon-exclusive thing.
So you just hate all industry? You just want nothing to be produced ever because executives are le bad?
Idk anon, in this case the example is pretty specific in chain of events.
He laid down a whole cause and effect of shit.
Unironically israelites
they must hate how the industry is having an identity crisis right now and thereby exposing "their control of it" and how that changes peoples perception of them and puts their managment under criticism. how humiliating, its over
This is actually true.
There is a huge amount of israeli people in media and in top positions of media.
>which executive
>a israelite
That doesn't help at all.
[citation needed]
What do they have to gain from making shitty cartoons?
No one wants to make a shitty project.
It's always some old frick or brat in a suit who's desperate for control to prove to himself how much of a big boy he his and backed by their generational wealth or position.
They have no talent, no interesting story to tell and have no intention of actually putting in the labor, deep down they know this and it drives them nuts.
They just want that feeling of "I did that, it was my genius that made this happen" to prove to themselves that their not losers.
In the end all they do is get in the way of the talented people actually doing shit.
>No one wants to make a shitty project.
Plenty of people do so long as they get to feel they "make a difference" for their inane politics as proven whenever one of these hacks get to run their own show.
money (tax breaks if the show is written off)
Anyone who blames israelites for anything are just /misc/tards wanting to stir shit.
moral satisfaction that they're "doing the correct thing with correct messages"
ian is married to a israelite! that same israelite got her show canceled early by OTHER israeliteS for TOO much ESG. make it make sense!
Which ones, though? There's so many
These executives are the main bosses in a lot of animation work. You could name them, but then you get blacklisted for saying anything bad about them in a professional level. Same reason it’s bad to badmouth your boss online regardless of where you work at.
Probably one of these five (none of them work at Cartoon Network anymore, they all got fired by AT&T)
goddamn, the legs on Raven
Jesus Christ
*Corn Shepherd
>Executive producers
You fricking idiot. Ian is talking about shareholders.
> In 2014, Ouweleen was named CMO of Cartoon Network, Adult Swim, and Boomerang at Turner Broadcasting System. In November 27, 2019, Ouweleen became the interim President of Cartoon Network, Adult Swim, and Boomerang due to the departure of Christina Miller. After Tom Ascheim took over the role in July 1, 2020, Ouweleen became the President of Adult Swim, reporting to Ascheim.
> Ascheim acted as the president of Freeform until April 2020, when he stepped down to take the position of president of Warner Bros. Global Kids, Young Adults and Classics, a division which had oversight over Cartoon Network, Cartoon Network Studios, Warner Bros. Animation and Turner Classic Movies; his first day at the position was July 1. May 2022, following company-wide reorganizations after the Warner Bros. Discovery merger, Tom Ascheim's role was eliminated.
> Once Ascheim's left following reorganizations of the Warner Bros. Discovery merger, Ouweleen became President of Cartoon Network and Boomerang once again in May 2022.
> Michael Ouweleen (born 1967) is an American television executive and screenwriter. He is the current president of The Cartoon Network, Inc. (CNI), the operating company of Cartoon Network (which includes the Cartoonito and ACME Night blocks), Adult Swim (which includes the Toonami block), and Boomerang.
> Previously, he was best known as a creative, co-creating the animated television series Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law and the show's spin-off, Birdgirl, and is the executive producer of the television film Re-Animated. He was a long-time creative director at Cartoon Network since 1996, and ran content development and oversaw programming for the network in the mid-2000s.
>Ascheim
oy vey
>That said, I hold no sour grapes
Don't lie Ian, you want them dead
Between this and the TTG WB100th special getting delayed with no new release date, someone at CN really hates crossovers
To be fair, this crossover was shit so it was deserved
Meanwhile at Disney Channel, kinda that Disney from all people is beating CNs ass.
Only 3 good villains
>zombie 3
fricking who
>parody
anyway that video is legit souless
>fricking who
It's a Disney Channel original movie musical about zombies.
Although it became more once the sequels brought in werewolves and aliens.
It even recently got its own series of animated shorts.
CNgays coping lmao
>CN's relevance in the modern era: Most know about Adventure Time, Regular Show, Gumball and Steven Universe
>DTVAs relevance in the modern era: Gravity Falls, latter seasons of Phineas and Ferb... and that's it. The rest being ignored or only talked about in relatively small Tumblr/Twitter circles (also Cinemaphile)
Very few people actually watch brown girl trash
This just makes me realize how very few shows of worth that DTVA made after the Disney Afternoon. So much crap lol.
Lets see how many villains CN has.
>Mojo Jojo
>HIM
>Ace
>Princess Morebucks
>Mandark
>Aku
>Demongo
>Father
>Toiletnator
>Sticky Beard
>Vilgax
>Charmcaster
>Zs'skayr
>Albedo
>Lich
>Freaky Fred
>Katz
>Bendy
Who am i missing?
Rob
That show sucked ass
RIgby
If you want to cheat then most of the cast from Villainous. Also Nega Pops from Regular Show
A ton of characters, seeing that bootleg looking literal whos are allowed. Starting with the multiverse destroying villain from the thread relevant episode and all the other OK KO villains.
Eddy's brother, the Boogeyman, Gumbald, General Modula, Eyeball, the Diamonds, Spinel, The Beast
The alien dude from Megas
Megas, more like Mega FAIL, because it couldn't last a single year
Why no stitch villains?
>pic
So there's Lord Hater, the inator guy, and...14 literal fricking whos? Seriously, I don't recognize most of these people. What is this shit? Are you even trying?
to be fair, this is a 2 minute short vs a full episode of a short, I don't think any execs are getting mad at this
Disney has made these musical crossovers enough to make a 11 minute episode by stitching them together. They also have Chibiverse
WOY and Amphibia>>the rest
>WOY = Dave the Barbarian> shit > all the rest
Fixed
They forgot randall from recess
Randall did nothing wrong
I don't like it but picrel is nice and very Cinemaphile
Surprised to see Gaspar and Chuckles there, especially the latter.
Which is fricking baffling, because even as kids everyone loved the hints/outright links that showed that PPG, Fosters, and Samurai Jack share a universe.
Whoever it is, is based. I don't mind crossovers where it's two creative teams collabing (like KND/Grim or even SU/UG). What Ian does is just fanboy sperg his characters into another property and pretend it's somehow "respectful".
>CN tries to bury black guys show.
Racism hits again.
Some seem to viscerally hate the mention of older properties. This isn't unique to CN either. Every now and then you'll come across this odd disdain for past work that i've never been able to understand.
It's C-suites and presidents not wanting any credit to go to previous owners of their position. Shows made before they had the job cannot be recognized.
This. People here misattribute it to the creatives when almost all the time, it’s the c-suite freaks who feel like nothing but what they do matters.
Adult Swim had this pitch meeting show with execs. they would rag on their old shit like Sealab like it was beneath them. it's interesting. I supposed these execs have to believe all their shit is better than the old shit otherwise they should just continue the old shows forever?
must consume new product
Disney really likes to market their old shit (princess, musicals, etc) while also having a mocking disdain for it.
That said, Ian sounds homosexual by blaming execucks publicly then backing off saying
>I dont dislike them I just want to tell everyone how I was wronged
At least he was smart enough not to use names, but that just makes it look like there isnt a bad guy shitting up his show, despite that being pretty believable.
Ian has never once taken responsibility for his show failing, so saying "it was the executives" is a convinient excuse.
Which is especially weird considering we're at peak reboot/revival/spin-off mania right now
OK Ko was part of the What the frick is wrong with these motherfricker era
like i don't wish this to ny show even if i don't like it
The bomb format was moronic
>show 5 episodes
>next batch is after months
This schedule looks like if you let an 18-month-old play with an etch-a-sketch
Yeah, I'm not going to trust anything Ian has to say on the matter because of course he's going to make himself sound like the victim. The reality is that, most likely, OK KO didn't actually do that well with kids and the execs cut it in response to dwindling interest.
Not shocking considering it was made for grown adults that wanted a nostalgia trip or anime references.
Anon no matter how you feel regarding that it was kind of a dark time for CN. Unless you were Teen Titans Go you were subject to only airing in the Bomb format which led to a lot of shows suffering for it. In the case with Crossover Nexus, I can believe corporate meddling happened because you would expect something like this to be at least a half hour special, and there's certain aspects of the special that felt rushed. Were the execs as seemingly spiteful of OK KO as Ian claims? Probably not, but the show was most likely axed due to the executives at the time wanting their own Spongebob with TTG which led them to judging the rest of their shows with a similar mandate of required success.
>KO
>Most boring character from your wife's show
>Raven, who is one of the most popular animated characters of all time
Wow, great crossover. Really pulled out all the stops here and used some obscure source material.
Don't forget crappy reboot Ben 10.
almost like these are the shows are were alive at the time
garnet is utterly boring but its the most popular gem
OK KO was always sold to me as "Adventure TIme meets Dragon Ball Z"
Part of me feels the execs hated that part because of how totally Dragon Ball Z mogged everything Cartoon Network was about
> long-form serialized show
> violent and brutal
> action the focus instead of comedy
> could get very dramatic
> anatomically correct character designs
> japanese
The CN executives of the Synder-era onwards were sticklers for the idea that cartoons are totally for kids, must be comedy-first, and should always be episodic. DBZ being the most popular show on American TV at one point completely invalidated a lot of American cartoonists and TV executives' worldview about how cartoons are supposed to work, a worldview built up over decades from the 1940s onwards.
Steven Universe was described to me as "Adventure Time meets Sailor Moon (and Revolutionary Girl Utena)" and Sailor Moon was episodic, so I can see a CN exec being more comfortable with it.
I'm really high tho
>OK KO was always sold to me as "Adventure TIme meets Dragon Ball Z"
That is just wrong though.
>OK KO was always sold to me as "Adventure TIme meets Dragon Ball Z"
Then the person selling you on it must not have really wanted you to give it a go then. I don't blame them. Was probably doing you a favor.
> Steven Universe was described to me as "Adventure Time meets Sailor Moon (and Revolutionary Girl Utena)
Lmao just because it has some refferences it doesn’t mean that it has anything to do with those. Su wish it had art direction half as good as those.
>anatomically correct
OK KO definitely didn't have that going for it.
>eyes bigger than her breasts
OK KO was on-model the entire time
Yeah they're just shit drawings.
>Cartoons are totally for kids, must be comedy-first, and should always be episodic.
That's exactly why a lot of new DBZ fans skip the original Dragon Ball lmao.
>> violent and brutal
>> action the focus instead of comedy
>> anatomically correct character designs
Literally none of that applies to OK KO so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
>The CN executives of the Synder-era onwards were sticklers for the idea that cartoons are totally for kids
But Adveture Time, Regular Show, and Steven Universe weren't like that. OK K.O.'s problem is that it was trash, looked ugly, and held zero appeal outside of nostalgiabaiting.
OKKOgays will really spit out any bullshit to say their show wasn't shit.
>The CN executives of the Synder-era onwards were sticklers for the idea that cartoons are totally for kids, must be comedy-first, and should always be episodic.
Because comedy is cheaper to produce and gives larger returns. Fact of the matter is that anime dominated the action sector long ago and the looser regulations (even considering how heavily censored Shonen is in the West) means that it's nearly impossible for Western cartoons to compete. They just can't get away with the level of violence that helps Eastern animation really sell the tension within its works.
>inb4 someone takes this as "le east vs west" bullshit
This is purely a difference in industry standards and management, and even then it's limited to children's entertainment. Western adult animation has a whole other slew of issues but that's another thing entirely.
I find crossover stories that rely on multiverse shenanigans hacky. I can give a pass to shit like Ben 10/Generator Rex since that extremely well written and you just can't fit those series in the same timeline, but like for most other CN crossovers I don't see why you can't just have them be shared universes.
I wouldn't call Crossover Nexus multiverse, just characters being dragged out of their shows.
They're all literally from separate universes, that is by definition what multiverse means.
Eh, i see it as just from different shows.
>OK KuckO
>references the show
>big bombastic episode is just references
Ian, references are not jokes or stories.
Because it cost 11.64 an episode to animate. That's unacceptable by Cartoon Networks standards where nothing should ever cost more than 3.87 an episode to animate.
Who fricking knows, but all it takes is for one of them to be a contrarian and then the others suddenly change their opinion to fall back on that.
Are the executives in the room with us, Ian?
Animators nowadays are such hacks. The whole crossover was so forced and cringy.
because cn is run by morons
It was a bad show.
Sorry guys but this show would have failed regardless of executive meddling.
>That said, I hold no sour grapes
This has been the vibe Ian gives off any time he brings up OK K.O. following its ending
Ian will never say anything negative about anyone because for the off chance he'll work with them later. There was a podcast where Sonic Forces was brought up and Ian does everything in his power to find ways to speak positively of it.
This is called "being a professional"
I know, not a concept channers often understand
And this is why Ian will be better than hacks like Genndy Tartakovsky and Danny Antonucci
Wasn't it also LGBT?
Not shitposting, I remember people going on about the main female character having a girlfriend.
Enid was bisexual and dated multiple characters including Red Action who was a woman. The two primary antagonists Boxman and Prof. Venomous were in "partnership" for large parts of S2-3 with their underlings fighting about whether to call them their "daddies' or "bosses". Multiple side characters that are heavily implied to be some kind of alphabet soup, most notably the gender neutral rabbit and the GI-JOE/Buddhist Monk paring.
It's pretty a pretty homosexual show when you get down to it but it's peace and love mentality in most of what it does makes it not feel forced (at least to me).
When your MC is constantly talking about how much he loves his "mommy" with total sincerity I have an easier time accepting the show was made by nu-wave hippies.
it wasn't Teen Titans Go
it wasn't Steven Universe
test
Executives are idiotic boomer and x's pieces of shit who have never actually worked a single fukcing day in their lives. To hell with them.
I never watched it when it was airing because I thought and still do think it’s ugly
it never blew up like AT/TTG/SU did so it's worthless to them
How come it's fine when Teen Titans GO! does it?
>How come it's fine when Teen Titans GO! does it?
The simple and boring answer is that TTGO has been so absurdly successful for so long that the writers' leash is longer. NBTS and episodes like link rel sure as hell weren't made for the six year-olds that are the usual target audience, regardless of the typical humor sprinkled in.
The majority of Executives entered the industry during the cartoon boom of the 80s. That is what shaped their perceptions of what cartoons should and shouldn't be. They are constantly chasing the ONE BIG HIT to put all their eggs in a basket on, to them a big crossover event basically indicates the show isn't the BIG HIT that can survive on it's own. They investment and paperwork to approve the crossover doesn't seem worth it in their brains. The guy who decided to punish it for them afterwards probably felt that the crossover cemented OK KO as a "failed" product because it'd never be remembered for anything besides the crossover.
>it failed because of the execs! They didn't want our xhow to be successful
Lmao
it wasn't very good
Basically this show runs on crossovers so it is expensive in terms of royalties
It wasn't a good show.
Why do so many showrunners think that if the networks just pushed the shit out of their show and tripled the advertising budget, it would magically be appealing to children? There are cartoons that got the EXACT same coverage as these other shows and managed to do well with kids, such as Big City Greens, Craig of the Creek, or We Bare Bears. These shows never hit their intended audience and were never going to, no matter how many figurines, marathons or billboards they push for.
I'm not gonna say no shows get sabotaged. Mao Mao certainly didn't get a fair chance and were burned off very quickly. But shows like OK KO definitely did.
Dana's claim is clearly coping bullshit
>Mao Mao certainly didn't get a fair chance and were burned off very quickly. But shows like OK KO definitely did.
Nobody really knows what went on behind the scenes with (the Mao Mao) creator and the network. Following after the S2 sneak peek debacle, with the network erasing the very existence of Mao Mao didn't help it, leaving the result remains in enigma. OK KO sorta survived past that, but without taking the beating it received in the end.
TOH's a Harry Potter x Witch Hat Atelier crossover fanfic so its target audience doesn't overlap very much with typical cartoon fans.
Dana should've Crowdfunded it like Lackadaisy.
>TOH's a Harry Potter x Witch Hat Atelier crossover fanfic
It'd be unironically kino if she had complete creative control over it. Frick execs.
>It'd be unironically kino if she had complete creative control over it. Frick execs.
Story of so so many shows it hurts.
Horse show being a major one.
It ended up being closer to Iruma kun somehow.
Why watch knock off Dragon Ball when you can change the channel and watch real Dragon Ball on another Warner-owned network instead?
If you're going to do this shit just name names. You're never working at Cartoon Network again and you're probably never working in TV again outside of anything your wife is working on so name names.
The execs dont want the newer generation to know how cool the old cartoons were.
because CN execs have shit taste, just look at all the shows they greenlit over the past 10 years
>That said, I hold no sour grapes
This guy comes up with a different excuse every year to try to explain why your show failed and not once has it been, "I made something with limited appeal." I remember him saying Trump was unironically the reason the show failed.
It's about a specific episode, dumbass.
>I remember him saying Trump was unironically the reason the show failed.
Gonna need a source on that one kiddo
https://www.tv.creativetalentnetwork.com/special-guest-creator-ian-jones-quartey-of-ok-k-o-lets-be-heroes
>TL;DR: HBO Max was set to launch a lot earlier, with OK KO (and other more niche, not ratings-friendly CN shows) benefiting from it, but anti-trust regulation got the AT&T merger, and therefore HBO Max, heavily delayed.
>No increased CN budget meant season 3 was cut from 40 to 20 episodes in Spring 2018 (right before the merger was finalized), which led to the end of the show. Ian says he wasn't the only production affected by the merger's delay.
>TL;DR for the TL;DR: blame trump
>Ian [paraphrased]: "Trump specifically hated Warner because they owned CNN, so he wouldn't let that merger go through, so basically all the Warner studios got stuck in a holding pattern, and there wasn't allowed to be any new spending without having trade-offs for other things."
>"Maybe if [OK KO] had come out a couple years later, it would have been streaming only and could have found its audience a little better."
>"Decisions [Trump] made by holding up that merger reverberated through the whole company and I wasn't the only casualty of that."
>"The [cancellation] got told to us by our series exec Conrad Montgomery who was a huge champion of the show, and he was sad because he really wanted more for us, and it was very demoralizing."
Saying he is just blaming trump is a bit of a dishonest way to say that anon.
It literally directly is Trump's fault though
He directly said the show ended because the merger got delayed which he blamed on Trump hating Warner for owning CNN. He directly blamed Trump instead of the fact he's a hack who made a shitty, ugly show based around nostalgiabait for a very narrow group of people who were 13 at the turn of the millennium and appealed to literally nobody else.
Even if OK KO went to streaming, chances are that it would just end up being dumped on there all at once, quickly ignored, and quietly canned after one, split up season like the majority of these straight to streaming cartoons
Fun fact: The Annoying Orange show got better regular ratings than OK K.O did
in fact in did better than everything CN has put out since
Fun fact: network ratings haven't mattered for a decade now
What matters now?
Execs are still trying to work that out, frankly.
Right now they go by "engagement ratings" since direct data for shows gaining/retaining subs doesn't exist
Anime has already figured this shit out decades ago.
What matters is sales. Getting more sales for the original work (wether manga or LN or book), merchandise (heavy focus on this) and constantly seeking advertisement tie-in deals with every chain in their country. Sometimes the show are set in a regional area and feature landmarks solely to drive tourism and get the local government to pay off part of the budget.
This shit is so obvious and basic but completely alien to both the kind of morons who want to make cartoons in the west and the people who pay them to do it.
Do you know how much pricy merchandising even an irrelevant 5 minute ONA show can get? Disregarding doujin sales (which makes a small profit for hardcore fans and advertises the show) there's figures in various price classes (ranging from $30 to $300), there's phone cases, stickers, shot glasses, expensive as frick BDs with exclusive tie-ins (even shop specific ones!), keychains, art cards, t-shirts, voice dramas, voice sets etc etc.
This also means you don't shit on the fans because they're the ones whaling your shows and making you rich.
Does any show outside of Batman/Spiderman/etc get anywhere close to this treatment? (and those still shit on their whales like the morons they are at caring for their brands)
Incidentally some western companies still get this, mostly because they've been around since the 1970s when this was common knowledge.
Look at Games Workshop, (in)famous for absolutely harvesting money from every pore of their customers and selling plastic crack at outrageous prices.
How did they react when one of their writers with a fairly long track-record with them decided to boast on twitter about wanting to destroy one of their core properties by "literally emasculating" them in a way similar to cartoonists act about other people's shows?
They fired and blacklisted the guy the very same day.
The one time they felt the need to put out one of those patronizing "everyone [who can afford to throw $350+ on plastic] is welcome" messages?
They immediately followed it up with updated lines for their Crusaders, Nazi Orks and the Wehraboo/Poliou army to placate the people annoyed by their insinuations.
Tell me more!? None of that can be true; I mean, because seeing how other companies lost their backbones like Wizard of the Coast!? Games Workshop has some pants which is too good to be true!
Games Workshop aren't even that good about it in reality.
They just care more about their bottom line and preserving their brand than they do about temporary measures against bad PR.
This makes them come across as hardcore corporate sharks in contrast simply because they don't allow people to actively and openly say they're trying to sabotage them and get away with it and because they know that the people buying from them don't give a frick about "inclusivity" and aren't going to pay a cent extra for it.
Weebs are stupid. DO you really think western CEO don't make shows based on how much merch sales they can milk out of it?
>DO you really think western CEO don't make shows based on how much merch sales they can milk out of it?
I know they don't because their merchandising game is fricking weaksauce and only really done properly for ancient big properties like Spiderman.
The anime studios live by their merch sales and offloading costs on sponsors which is why even niche shows will have at least some garage resin kit, acrylic stands, straps, mugs, shirts and so on.
The exception to this is mainly Disney. They do merchandising right for new releases and no one else is even trying.
Why is the merchandising game so trash now?
Do you think parents are going to buy LGBT themed toys for their kids?
Do you think nerds are going to buy merchandise for new IPs focusing on topics they don't care about by people that not so subtly hate them?
Do you think the posters on here who actually like that shit is going to pay up for any it?
Personally I doubt even a fraction of them even own bluerays of their favorite shows.
If execs actually considered merchandising as part of their goals in the first place they wouldn't greenlight most of the shit they do.
they don't make shit people would want to buy. I don't think we need to go back to the toy commercials of the 80s but at least try to make cool shit. They make everything so ugly and not in a fun gross way.
I think the culture around toys and merch has just changed. Japan, famous for having a stupidly intricate and large merch culture, is having problems with their own children's cartoon/live action toy shows. Children today, globally, probably just prefer other things to spend money on. Not to mention economic problems hitting all the major toy buying countries to begin with doesn't help.
Boys preferring video games to shows and toys has been a very disruptive force for media merchandising.
It could have been more competitive if they made shows with cool designs. There's no modern shows that fit that.
No they haven't, but people still cling on pretend they do. Not that it even matters, since OK KO didn't find an audience of any kind besides adult cartoon fans, and even then they were more interested in SU at the time.
Unironcially streaming clicks and social media engagment.
t. Tony KWAB
What's the matter? Still no milly?
it appealed to no one
Is that the show that had a super quick epilogue to that JRPG parody webcomic from the early 2000s?
Yes it's a show built entirely around Remember Thing, specifically Ian's version of Remember Thing from when he was a kid/teenager, and used an entire episode of the show to give closure to his old semi-obscure webcomic that nobody had thought about in like 15 years. It was a show narrowly targeted at a specific group of late millennials waxing nostalgic for Y2K era stuff from their middle school days. It held no appeal for anyone else. Is it any wonder why it failed and CN hated it?
Too bad they didn't hate it enough to make sure it never got made in the first place
>I AM JETHRO
Was it a reference? Ian said he played SRB2 back in 1999 and occasionally checks on it since. He also put out a Sonic Fast Friends comic for SEGA recently that had coloring suspiciously similar to SRB2s shading style
They also did a sonic crossover in okko anon
>Why did Cartoon Network execs hate it?
The same reason every other sane human being hated it: because it was irredeemable dogshit. Not even the people who claim to like it actually like it, they just want to frick a massively, almost wholly unrecognizable off-model coomer version of Enid and/or Enid's mom.
it’s only magic
>Enid's asscheeks
The fact that this fricker is voiced by Steven Ogg is still crazy to me.
ian and rebecca need each other to make a half decent cartoon
Steven Universe gradually lost its SOUL after ian left, and OK KO without Rebecca was all SOUL and no substance, if that makes sense
I don't know, but I know I didn't like it because it had nothing to offer other than loose references to other media
I know but I won’t tell you.