He's cool, but people treat their headcanon fanfiction of him as actual canon and then get pissy when the show doesn't align with this. He also has the problem where since his one goal is just to kill everyone as fast as he can he can't ever really win properly. If he tried taking over Ooo piece by piece you could allow him to win occasionally, but since he always bee-lines for mass destruction if you let him win even once then the show is over because everyone is dead. So that's why he got a reputation as a jobber, which leads to some people not taking him seriously. Its a shame one of his coolest traits, his extreme dedication to eradicating all life as quickly and efficiently as possible is also what leads to him being so lame because it means he can't ever win (The alternate universe seen in Fionna and Cake not withstanding due to Finn and Jake's wishes)
You could very easily write your way around that. Thing is Adventure Time is a setting that's full of "killable" characters. Noone cares seeing candy-people getting murdered. Or fire-people, or vampire monsters. Only if humanoid or vaguely animal-like creatures get killed is it nsfcn.
From someone who only watched up until Simon and Marcy I'd do the Lich like this: >Mortal Folly as usual, Lich is defeated, still possesses Snail >Instead of dumb Prismo stuff, Lich comes back and attacks Fire Kingdom (FP is introd in S3 so Fire Kingdom attack is a good finale) and actually wins, extinguishes everyone there, Billy sacrifices himself to save Finn and Flame Princess evacuates, now she wants to avenge her people and Finn wants to avenge Billy >S4 is Finn and PB and FP trying to figure out how to handle Lich. Can't do shit to him when he now controls the formerly Fire Kingdom too, and he's gonna attack any other kingdom next. Try rallying others but bunch of them are too chicken to attack. Finale is Lich invading either Nightosphere or Lumpy Space
And so on and so forth. Eventually the Lich comes back for the Candy Kingdom and you have Finn + survivors vs Lich + undead. And at that point there's a bunch of characters you could use for "undead"
>Instead of dumb Prismo stuff, Lich comes back and attacks Fire Kingdom (FP is introd in S3 so Fire Kingdom attack is a good finale) and actually wins, extinguishes everyone there, Billy sacrifices himself to save Finn and Flame Princess evacuates, now she wants to avenge her people and Finn wants to avenge Billy
Yeah but that's the thing, this changes the Lich's character. His whole deal currently (and one of the reasons he has so many fanboys) is his one track mindset to wiping everyone out as fast as possible. He doesn't lead undead armies to wipe out particular cities and nations, he just aims straight for whatever "kill everyone" button he can find. If you were to change this you could have him win more like in your suggestions and feel like less of a jobber, but then he'd lose a lot of the unique appeal he had. People are already upset the Lich actually has introspective thoughts in Fionna and Cake and isn't just a killbot machine.
It's the same thing but being smart about it instead. Prismo was only written-in to facilitate the plot with an easy "kill everything then alternate farmworld button". If you keep Lich the same but remove the Prismo plot, he'll just invade whichever target is easiest to kill, get stronger, then on to the next. Prismo existing is the only problem.
I mean, I am not exactly disagreeing with you in that I think the Lich taking over Ooo piece by piece with an undead army would have been really fricking cool, just pointing out how it goes against what is expected of the character and as we see with his depiction in the latest spin off people can get upset about that.
I'm trying to say it doesn't. Lich waited patiently to manipulate Finn when he was impersonating Bubblegum, etcetera. He's not brainless, if there is no option for "wish everyone to death instantly" then he'd just do it in the most efficient means available.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>then he'd just do it in the most efficient means available.
Yeah, and that'd probably be a mass extinction event like the bombs that created him, not a slower military campaign.
I loved that the Lich actually had introspective thoughts in Fionna and Cake. What I hated is how the narrative immediately sealed him away forever instead of actually exploring that.
I mean yeah, the problem is that the Lich's appearances have kind of become a meme at this point. Since he's been so much of a jobber over time he lost his impact when he appeared, and people assumed his defeat in Together again was basically them retiring him as a villain by having Finn and Jake defeat him one last time. People for the most part weren't expecting them to bring him back for Fionna and Cake, so when they did it was already at the point where most of the audience had accepted the Lich's relevance as a villain was over.
I'm not against the Lich being brought back if he can be used in fresh and interesting ways, but I really doubt they are ever gonna do that unless they make something specifically focused on Sweet P.
the lich wasn't the antagonist in F&C tho. He was only there for the Simon/Betty/GOLB plot and even then he was essentially there as an extended cameo.
When The Lich first showed up in Jerry I assumed they would have him try to fight/possess Scarab and invade other universes but I think the ending we got works better thematically. We've already seen the Lich try to kill everybody. Him being erased by GOLB (one of the only beings in the universe he couldn't manipulate or kill) was a better conclusion then having him lose to Finn and Jake for the umpteenth time.
>He doesn't lead undead armies to wipe out particular cities and nations,
He literally says I will command an army and we will go planet to planet killing everything.
That sounds a lot greater of a scale than cities and nations, which supports the idea of him focusing on purely mass extinction.
Its literally in the pitch thing[...] >He just raises a legion of undead knights, marches in and obliterates everything in his path.
Yeah but we never actually see him do this. It's apart of the pitch that was never really included as apart of his character. The pitch also says he doesn't monologue, but the Lich's most iconic moments in the show are him monologuing.
A very cool villain for the series finale of Adventure Time in season 2. I wonder what would have happened if the series kept going on after that, but I'm satisfied with what we got.
>Doesn't monologue
Well that one didn't last long.
The Lich could've been a cool concept, if it was done better. He could've been more like an eldlich monster, who couldn't be stopped. He could've been more serious and straight-forward, with no supervillain tropes. He could've been a lot of things. But instead, he ended up being a regular kind of supervillain, with convoluted evil plans and who dies because he monologued for too long.
I'm pretty sure this is why they changed the name to just The Lich in his first proper appearance. WotLK was released shortly before Adventure time started if I remember correctly.
He's only called the Lich King once in the Billy song.
if you actually want to know >Kil'jaeden created the Lich King ages ago from the spirit of the orc shaman Ner'zhul to raise an undead army to conquer Azeroth for the Burning Legion. Initially trapped within the Frozen Throne with Frostmourne, the Lich King eventually betrayed Kil'jaeden and merged with the human Arthas Menethil. When Frostmourne was destroyed and Arthas perished, Bolvar Fordragon became the new Lich King, imprisoning the master of the Scourge within the Frozen Throne once more in order to protect the world from future threats.
He peaked long ago. Making him the embodiment of anti-life and then making an embodiment of chaos above him is all well and good, but you can't go back and try to give him motivation. The "he's kind of a force of nature driven by rules but also he's kind of an intimidating guy with a stoically sadistic personality" thing works less the more they show him.
I liked it better when Se1 of adventure time was heading to include a Lich Kingdom (Skeleton princess then being the Lich Princess). Where the Lich King would have been defeated and would show where all the skeletons might have come from. As The Lich he was mostly a jobber with plot armor(A snail can crack amber ... BECAUSE!).
K W A B
>no witty banter
just a villain, not a supervillain
he basic
What's the difference?
PRESENTATION!
?si=pLojLyJ0CMkhJz16
Jerry's a pretty cool guy with some funny jokes.
A crappy knockoff of The Horned King
Em more like the Witch King if anything.
He's cool, but people treat their headcanon fanfiction of him as actual canon and then get pissy when the show doesn't align with this. He also has the problem where since his one goal is just to kill everyone as fast as he can he can't ever really win properly. If he tried taking over Ooo piece by piece you could allow him to win occasionally, but since he always bee-lines for mass destruction if you let him win even once then the show is over because everyone is dead. So that's why he got a reputation as a jobber, which leads to some people not taking him seriously. Its a shame one of his coolest traits, his extreme dedication to eradicating all life as quickly and efficiently as possible is also what leads to him being so lame because it means he can't ever win (The alternate universe seen in Fionna and Cake not withstanding due to Finn and Jake's wishes)
You could very easily write your way around that. Thing is Adventure Time is a setting that's full of "killable" characters. Noone cares seeing candy-people getting murdered. Or fire-people, or vampire monsters. Only if humanoid or vaguely animal-like creatures get killed is it nsfcn.
From someone who only watched up until Simon and Marcy I'd do the Lich like this:
>Mortal Folly as usual, Lich is defeated, still possesses Snail
>Instead of dumb Prismo stuff, Lich comes back and attacks Fire Kingdom (FP is introd in S3 so Fire Kingdom attack is a good finale) and actually wins, extinguishes everyone there, Billy sacrifices himself to save Finn and Flame Princess evacuates, now she wants to avenge her people and Finn wants to avenge Billy
>S4 is Finn and PB and FP trying to figure out how to handle Lich. Can't do shit to him when he now controls the formerly Fire Kingdom too, and he's gonna attack any other kingdom next. Try rallying others but bunch of them are too chicken to attack. Finale is Lich invading either Nightosphere or Lumpy Space
And so on and so forth. Eventually the Lich comes back for the Candy Kingdom and you have Finn + survivors vs Lich + undead. And at that point there's a bunch of characters you could use for "undead"
>Instead of dumb Prismo stuff, Lich comes back and attacks Fire Kingdom (FP is introd in S3 so Fire Kingdom attack is a good finale) and actually wins, extinguishes everyone there, Billy sacrifices himself to save Finn and Flame Princess evacuates, now she wants to avenge her people and Finn wants to avenge Billy
Yeah but that's the thing, this changes the Lich's character. His whole deal currently (and one of the reasons he has so many fanboys) is his one track mindset to wiping everyone out as fast as possible. He doesn't lead undead armies to wipe out particular cities and nations, he just aims straight for whatever "kill everyone" button he can find. If you were to change this you could have him win more like in your suggestions and feel like less of a jobber, but then he'd lose a lot of the unique appeal he had. People are already upset the Lich actually has introspective thoughts in Fionna and Cake and isn't just a killbot machine.
It's the same thing but being smart about it instead. Prismo was only written-in to facilitate the plot with an easy "kill everything then alternate farmworld button". If you keep Lich the same but remove the Prismo plot, he'll just invade whichever target is easiest to kill, get stronger, then on to the next. Prismo existing is the only problem.
I mean, I am not exactly disagreeing with you in that I think the Lich taking over Ooo piece by piece with an undead army would have been really fricking cool, just pointing out how it goes against what is expected of the character and as we see with his depiction in the latest spin off people can get upset about that.
I'm trying to say it doesn't. Lich waited patiently to manipulate Finn when he was impersonating Bubblegum, etcetera. He's not brainless, if there is no option for "wish everyone to death instantly" then he'd just do it in the most efficient means available.
>then he'd just do it in the most efficient means available.
Yeah, and that'd probably be a mass extinction event like the bombs that created him, not a slower military campaign.
I loved that the Lich actually had introspective thoughts in Fionna and Cake. What I hated is how the narrative immediately sealed him away forever instead of actually exploring that.
I mean yeah, the problem is that the Lich's appearances have kind of become a meme at this point. Since he's been so much of a jobber over time he lost his impact when he appeared, and people assumed his defeat in Together again was basically them retiring him as a villain by having Finn and Jake defeat him one last time. People for the most part weren't expecting them to bring him back for Fionna and Cake, so when they did it was already at the point where most of the audience had accepted the Lich's relevance as a villain was over.
I'm not against the Lich being brought back if he can be used in fresh and interesting ways, but I really doubt they are ever gonna do that unless they make something specifically focused on Sweet P.
the lich wasn't the antagonist in F&C tho. He was only there for the Simon/Betty/GOLB plot and even then he was essentially there as an extended cameo.
When The Lich first showed up in Jerry I assumed they would have him try to fight/possess Scarab and invade other universes but I think the ending we got works better thematically. We've already seen the Lich try to kill everybody. Him being erased by GOLB (one of the only beings in the universe he couldn't manipulate or kill) was a better conclusion then having him lose to Finn and Jake for the umpteenth time.
I didn't want him to resume the mission he completed or just be defeated again. I wanted him to find a new purpose.
that would be moronic
As opposed to a character seeking new purpose and just getting boxed in the next episode instead?
I mean maybe that's what a hypothetical Sweet P spin off or special could be about.
Maybe so. It's the only shot left.
>He doesn't lead undead armies to wipe out particular cities and nations,
He literally says I will command an army and we will go planet to planet killing everything.
Its literally in the pitch thing
>He just raises a legion of undead knights, marches in and obliterates everything in his path.
That sounds a lot greater of a scale than cities and nations, which supports the idea of him focusing on purely mass extinction.
Yeah but we never actually see him do this. It's apart of the pitch that was never really included as apart of his character. The pitch also says he doesn't monologue, but the Lich's most iconic moments in the show are him monologuing.
guy seems pretty funny
he's cute! :3
A very cool villain for the series finale of Adventure Time in season 2. I wonder what would have happened if the series kept going on after that, but I'm satisfied with what we got.
What do you mean anon? Adventure Time was just that single short on Nickelodeon with that weird Penn kid and his magic dog.
>Doesn't monologue
Well that one didn't last long.
The Lich could've been a cool concept, if it was done better. He could've been more like an eldlich monster, who couldn't be stopped. He could've been more serious and straight-forward, with no supervillain tropes. He could've been a lot of things. But instead, he ended up being a regular kind of supervillain, with convoluted evil plans and who dies because he monologued for too long.
>Opinion on the Lich King?
Cool design and ties to the OG games.
I'm pretty sure this is why they changed the name to just The Lich in his first proper appearance. WotLK was released shortly before Adventure time started if I remember correctly.
He's only called the Lich King once in the Billy song.
Why did those hacks call a Death Knight a lich in the first place?
if you actually want to know
>Kil'jaeden created the Lich King ages ago from the spirit of the orc shaman Ner'zhul to raise an undead army to conquer Azeroth for the Burning Legion. Initially trapped within the Frozen Throne with Frostmourne, the Lich King eventually betrayed Kil'jaeden and merged with the human Arthas Menethil. When Frostmourne was destroyed and Arthas perished, Bolvar Fordragon became the new Lich King, imprisoning the master of the Scourge within the Frozen Throne once more in order to protect the world from future threats.
The Lich being the embodiment of the Mushroom War and Mutually Assured Destruction>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The Lich being a cuck for GOLB
They are the same thing
Is it true that they changed the name since they didn't want legal trouble from Blizz?
Seeing as they changed his name from his first mention, maybe.
?t=8
He peaked long ago. Making him the embodiment of anti-life and then making an embodiment of chaos above him is all well and good, but you can't go back and try to give him motivation. The "he's kind of a force of nature driven by rules but also he's kind of an intimidating guy with a stoically sadistic personality" thing works less the more they show him.
>every single one of these statements was contradicted in the show
Would it be funny if the Lich and the Lich King were different characters?
The lich is cute
Lich also converted to Islam. When will we get sharia lawyer lich?
>He has found the light of Islam alhamdulillah
I liked it better when Se1 of adventure time was heading to include a Lich Kingdom (Skeleton princess then being the Lich Princess). Where the Lich King would have been defeated and would show where all the skeletons might have come from. As The Lich he was mostly a jobber with plot armor(A snail can crack amber ... BECAUSE!).