Nah. DC will just call Tim and Damian both Robin. Like they are currently doing before Damian gets a name change. Just like Clark and Jon sharing the Superman name and Miles sharing the Spider-Man name with Peter.
Don't you mean bisexual? In the Tim Drake special he speaks with Stephanie about his then recent revelation. With the last bubble on page 65, saying he doesn't only like females. Sure it's not much and Fitzmartin's direction has been only getting worse, but at the bare minimum it does state more or less that he is into both. Whether or not his current relationship with Bernard will persist is beyond me, but that's besides the point.
Bisexual is just code for gay. It is just something the writers says to make it seem like the character is still attracted to women when he never date women ever again or find them attractive.
You’re nothing but propaganda. homosexualry is pushed by the corporations to reduce the working classes power and you’re nothing but weapons wielded against your own families. You’re not brave thinkers or revolutionaries, just weak minded gays with no ability to love anyone beyond yourselves
It’s not about change, if this was just to get you to be acknowledged this wouldn’t be a topic. But you’re on the side of our mutual oppressors because you do nothing but weaken the connection within communities
>enslave the working class >by making it easier for them to frick, spend less on kids, reject capitalist Jesus, and create worker demand by slowing the population growth.
>>by making it easier for them to get AIDs, spend more on consooming since there will be no future generation, reject any parts of their local community not obsessed with poopsex, and create an excuse to import third worlders to replace you with by slowing native population growth.
Man even I think the other guy is being moronic but your argument is even worse.
You got a bigger threat from automation or job exportation. Legal immigrants still get same rights and costs as citizens. Illegals are doing bottom of society basic b***h shit or jobs people don't want to pay US citizens for in first place.
Your ability to threaten higher wages comes from cutting out middle management (work from home) and in a complicated field Pedro can't pick up in an afternoon.
hey now, being bi he can plow both of them behind the dumpster. Nerdy straight laced Tim stuck with two horny blonde bimbos that just want to drain him constantly.
How else then would a bisexual character be depicted if they are now in a same sex relationship? They still have an attraction to the opposite sex hence the name. If a heterosexual is in a relationship it doesn't mean they won't find other members of the opposite sex any less attractive.
Even then people would still complain if they end up with a same-sex partner. I would prefer variation in terms of characterization it's not as if men who are into men are a monolith of a flamboyant archetype.
Bisexuals are usually just seen as gay or straight at different times, there's a reason Catwoman doesn't show up in the big DC Pride celebrations, even though she's technically bisexual.
Bisexual here. I hate you pride homosexuals like the plague and would never be caught dead macking it with some fairy like Jon’s boyfriend. You show us by making us miserable and horny.
Most of us stay more closeted than full on gay men specifically because all this pride shit has made people even less accepting of everything. It’s just since we pass better thanks to not having gay voice and shit we actually hear people’s thoughts on the matter rather than placations. Like hearing how racist white northeastern liberals can be when around other people like them.
Don't associate me with people like that, seeing only the activism regarding this discourse, flaunting pride. I was only asking questions, I don't like what I am seeing either in regards to these characters. There is obviously more nuance when it comes to this discussion of "representation" in media. With the recent onslaught of these "outed" characters being depicted in a narrow way.
I just felt Steph was subjected to some kind of humilliation ritual in this issue, where she had to pretend she was okay with everything happening around her lest she be regarded a bigot.
That would have been a pretty fricked up situation for Steph if Tim decided to abruptly go off and frick some other girl, and Steph had to be actually enthusiastic about it.
Not really? They hadn't just broken up three days ago; it had been months. Steph's had to endure Tim having other girlfriends before and was never shown secretly raging about that harlot Tam or whatever.
You assume too much anon, If you are a single heterosexual male does that mean you are any less straight than a heterosexual in a relationship, of course not. But you will still come around with the double standard non-argument nonetheless.
People can be bisexual irl, but in fiction usually anyone who's had a significant same sex relationship in the story will mostly only date the same sex. They would be terrified of the reaction if Tim started dating a woman again and call it "gay erasure". Fans did it when Harley Quinn x Booster Gold dated. But we all know she will end up with Ivy as the default.
It's far from good writing, my only explanation is that Fitzmartin was trying to approach the topic of Tim's bisexuality as him being conflicted. And as a result he wanted to explore his interest in the same-sex. I'd say its better off than him cheating on her like how he did to Ariana when he was dating Stephanie as Robin.
Honestly if Tim met Bernard when he was still dating Steph and ghosted her after that out of conflict of the emotions he had over his feelings, I'd get it more. But the way things are presented, Tim seemed to feel conflicted out of the blue, which is why he broke up with her, and then conveniently he meets with Bernard who he ends up having feelings for. Its all so convenient it feels contrived.
Batgirls pretty much states Tim ghosted Steph to hook up with Bernard.
That was the same situation in Urban Legends. We're just told they broke up and Tim hasn't spoken to her for months.
Good thing that isn't what that panel means then. He's saying he liked Steph regardless of her sex. The language isn't complicated.
That said, there was stuff to be annoyed about in that story, not least that it was in a pride issue and it spent the whole time having a guy talk to his ex-girlfriend about him having a boyfriend while his current boyfriend was trapped in a diner.
When a friend of mine came out to me he said he was bi, then as the years went by it was pretty clear he just preferred men. The only time you’re gonna see Tim with a woman again is in an AU.
Yeah, being bi isn't a 50/50 thing, that's why a lot of zoomers say they're bi, it's an easy way to say they're part of the LGBTQ without fully committing to being gay.
If that's the case why bother, if I think you are insinuating they do it for attention. I don't doubt some people do, but to entertain your idea. Why label themselves amongst a majority within the community that has also been seen with derision amongst that community?
>I think you are insinuating they do it for attention
Kinda, but not necessarily, I'm insinuating they do it mainly to belong, so they can be part of this big gay community, and can stand out from "just" being straight. >Why label themselves amongst a majority within the community that has also been seen with derision amongst that community?
Because even though some hate bi people, they have to accept that they are part of the LGBT community, so in a way they seem like underdogs, some might say they're not "true" LGBT, but others will accept them, that's just how it works.
Being bi isn't a 50/50 thing, preference depends on the person. Tim could romantically love Steph, but love physical relations with Bernard more.
That’s not the point I’m trying to make, the point is, coming out as bi is just so they can ease the character for everyone. Eventually he’s just going to be fully gay.
Let’s be real, bisexual these days in comics is basically just used as soft gay in which the writer says that the character is still attracted to the opposite sex but will never actually pair them with it since then the Twitter crowd will complain about queer erasure
Constantine has been bi since the 90’s, way before it was a trend for everyone and their grandmother to be LGBT and that was used as a substitute for character rather than just being a piece of who they are as a whole. He’s not exactly a new bisexual
>h-he still likes w-women
This was the same cope bicucks made in 2021 when Jon Kent became bi lmao
Jon being bisexual is a wildcard, when they want a story set in the future , he will have a girlfriend and children
Tim being bisexual is just "we want him to be gay but some lgbt guys will complain about erasure".
>when they want a story set in the future , he will have a girlfriend and children
He’ll marry his boy-Catwoman and raise their adopted child together.
Exactly, queers want bisexuals to just be gay or a dyke, and heteros just want them to be hetero.
My point is nobody likes bisexuals and nobody ever really depicts them as what they're supposed to be.
I mean realistically the easiest way to depict a bisexual person well is the same way you'd depicit a straight or gay person if you're allowed to akcnowledge sexality exists.
I mean, think of it like this:
What healthy young man of his age isn't ogling or thinking about the assorted people he finds attractive, or even just making a dumbass of himself talking to this new hot stranger?
You could literally put a bisexual in a relationship with a person of either sex and demonstrate the fact they're bisexual just by having them express an attraction to people of both sexes.
If Tim is in the same room as Catwoman and Nightwing it's only natural his eyes would bounce between their asses.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Alright I suppose that make sense, but every time I always hear the same complaint. That whenever a character is bisexual they just see them as gay if they end up with a same sex partner. Or another complaint would likely be if this scenario you described were to happen would be, why do they need to remind us? We get it you like both. But then again you can't please everyone.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I think part of the problem is that writers tend to not really represent a bisexual as being bisexual. They could even show this in the form of giving the character different flings over time in which they’re shown in a relationship with someone of both sexes. Problem is that the second they make a character bisexual, they want to put them in a major relationship that will basically be the relationship they have either from there in out or until the writer or a future writer breaks them up. In that regard, their bisexuality is basically an informed attribute while they’re presented as gay
>So then what are they supposed to be? How would they be better depicted, should they be in a steady relationship?
Here's how: you just don't depict them at all.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Well that's never going to happen now is it?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Its fine, the gays eclipse the bis in media representation despite the formers being a bigger group.
1 year ago
Anonymous
What is your issue with bisexuals exactly, might I ask?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Not racist, just don't like 'em.
1 year ago
Anonymous
How come, if you don't mind homosexuals? Either way I think your dislike is a bit unfounded, to put an understatement.
im an uncaught up with post 2011 canon. Is it still canon that Steph was pregnant at 15, Tim helped her through the pregnancy then Steph gave up the baby because she thought she'd be a bad parent. with Tim helping her in her time of crisis being what leads to their relation ship or has baby brown been erased from existence.
I just want to know. Also it would be nice to know what Cassandra's current origin is and if the events of no man's land happened at all.
Regarding Stephanie's teen pregnancy, most likely no. There has been no mention of a kid since her character got rebooted. Cass is still Shiva's and Cain's daughter. I think her last name is Wu-San now, not Cain, but not sure on that last part.
Hasn’t been mentioned because the Batgirls book is catering to the Batman Family Adventures crowd. Reminding everyone that Steph is a grown woman who got teen pregnant, gave up her kid, and never looked back, all so she could keep hopping around on rooftops at night… it just brings down the vibes.
If they last till 2040 without another reboot, the kid might finally be old enough to search her out on their own.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Why wait? Introduce him as a grown ass man and say that it happened because of one of the multiple universe resets.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Was it a boy? I thought she didn't want to know.
The kid is probably 7ish now, right? And it's been some 25 years since the pregnancy arc. So another 20 years for the kid to become a teen seems reasonable.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Only if they age Steph up enough. She could remain teen forever, like Billy Batson.
Ah, another person who hasn't actually read any of Steph's old appearances.
Was it a boy? I thought she didn't want to know.
The kid is probably 7ish now, right? And it's been some 25 years since the pregnancy arc. So another 20 years for the kid to become a teen seems reasonable.
Only if they age Steph up enough. She could remain teen forever, like Billy Batson.
Steph has never been older than 19 in any continuity, so the kid can't be older than 4.
Steph was 18 and a freshman in college during Batman: Reborn. Damian was 10.
Damian is now 14.
It's easy math.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Steph doesn't seem older than 17 right now.
Soon Damian will claim her.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>early 20s zoomers acting like teenagers
what's the problem?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Damian has aged up, the other characters have not. If you start basing ages on comparison to other characters age then Damian should be somewhere in his early 20s.
On the one hand, it shouldn't HAVE to be something that the comic has to keep incessantly reminding of us, but on the other hand, it should at least matter.
I keep thinking back to, say, Renee Montoya a few iterations back, and how her coming out led eventually to losing her job at the GCPD and her connection with her family, and how it never felt like a minor useless detail.
>His sexuality has damn near nothing to do with the writing.
The book is about him moving to the gay neighborhood of town and has a subplot about locals not wanting to hire any of the LGBT from the neighborhood because of the murders going on.
And for females it's a lesbian who occasionally hooks up with a gentleman? Why is it so unfathomable that an individual can be attracted to both sexes? Sure, if they are monogamous they will either be in a same or opposite sex relationship. But they still have an attraction to both, a heterosexual isn't immediately labeled as asexual if they are single, are they? Of course not they are still heterosexual.
>boyfriend dumps you for a twink >immediately hook up with a rich Asian athlete
All things considered Steph didn't do bad at all.
hey now, being bi he can plow both of them behind the dumpster. Nerdy straight laced Tim stuck with two horny blonde bimbos that just want to drain him constantly.
>Steph, I'm not gay. I just really love wieners inside me. Oh don't feel bad, its like we're on the same team!
As a bisexual man, I have never felt so empowered. Thank you Fitzmartin!
What do you mean it's been all tell, no show. In fact for the most part Bernard has been more or less a background character. The only big thing that happened recently was that he got kidnapped again by Moriarty.
>What do you mean it's been all tell, no show
With how things are going, there will literally be more official material of Tim loving Bernard than there will be of Tim with Steph in the comics regardless of how much it matters.
Don't mean to rain on your parade. Even though now has been a low point in terms of Tim's characterization. Remember things can always get worse, I know that's a bit much to say. But life finds a way.
This is not going to get better. Very rarely do things get better in comics. You can only pray that someone else less terrible than the current writer can get picked up, a long and tenuous that could take months or even years to happen.
This isn't a a situation where you can pick yourself up and fight the good fight another day.
>This is not going to get better. Very rarely do things get better in comics.
Like I said it could always get worse, and if it is a "losing battle". Why not move on to something else? As you said things rarely improve.
I just gave up on cuckmics all together
It's just utterly soulless leftist social engineering at this point
Nothing these degens can publish interests me any longer, they've raped all merit and soul in it to death, frick them.
I want comics to burn down so bad.
He is dead to me.
Same
Instead of fricking Steph's hot wet vegana he puts his penis in men's buttholes. LOL, lmao
Wow they ruined Bernard with this retcon. He looked like the kind of guy who could get any girl he wanted and now he looks somewhere along the lines of underage twink and femboy
Most fans that enjoyed this development are tired of Bernard and the lack of depth in their relationship. Plus they have been baiting TimKon all the while as seen here in this panel in the Tim Drake Special where they were holding hands. And they all but "confirmed" Tim's one-sided crush on Conner after he died in the Dark Crisis: Young Justice mini. Whether it will come into fruition is highly unlikely due to Jon being out.
It's not going to happen because sooner or later they're going to get called out for making everyone gay. We already have a gay superman/boy, two would be overdoing it.
As I said previously it will more than likely if won't ever happen. Because of Jon Kent being out as bi too. But it won't stop them from teasing a possibility to fans that would prefer it.
Anon at that point you’re not satisfied with the ruination of one character and want to ruin another just to get your pairing. You’re not a fan at that point, just a fujoushi
Take it easy, and besides many people see Dick as bi anyway. He's been plastered on material for DC Pride twice over. That and Midnighter did have a thing for his looks, more specifically his bottom.
They know he isn't gay but that won't stop them from teasing any possibility of "queerness" so to speak. At least when it comes to teasing for marketing. Remember when writers said after Tim's coming out that they always thought of him as bi beforehand?
>Remember when writers said after Tim's coming out that they always thought of him as bi beforehand?
That was because Tim was always an effeminate boy, like most bisexual men.
1 year ago
Anonymous
As if they haven't associated Dick's physical traits much the same? >Tim was always an effeminate boy, like most bisexual men.
Know that firsthand?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Anon, you're just posting pride covers. Dick isn't gay like Tim.
Once upon a time Tim Drake had a solo ongoing that lasted nearly 200 issues. It lasted over 200 issues if you count his transition into being Red Robin as a continuation of the series.
Dana was killed when Bludhaven was destroyed. This is apparently still canon despite a distinctly unexploded Bludhaven being the setting for the current Nightwing run.
Only the most moronic of the morons didn't get gay vibes from Tim.
Like holy shit how fricking clueless do you have to be?
If you didn't think Tim could have been in the closet, you are 100% an incel.
As someone bisexual enough to have had sex with another guy, but really regret what it felt like the next day, I fricking hate this comic. The reality isn't that you get a dick up your ass and then suddenly want to run out into public proclaiming your deep emotional love for someone else of the same sex and how your entire identity has changed.
My reality? The night we fricked was fun, it felt good. He got weird at the end and I left in an Uber. I woke up with a throbbing butthole, a shit with blood, and had to spend the day with family, where I started thinking to myself that I couldn't completely tell if he used a condom the whole time. Texting him, he insisted he was clean but didn't clarify on the condom. I spent the next couple of days in a panic trying to get to the doctor for HIV medication, which I took every day for a month, and cost my insurance over $1,000. I had to test twice over the year to make sure I was clean, and sweat over it every fricking second. Enough to not want to do it again.
My reward for my night of up the butt pleasure? I get called a straight guy who isn't supportive enough of gays or bisexuals by people who are clearly just virtue signaling.
Sometimes I want to shake things up by revealing I'm actually bi and had a bad experience, just to see how quickly all of the people around me would go "ew ur gay now" instead of actually supporting me like they do on Twitter/Reddit/whatever.
Tim Drake was one of my favorite Robins. Flamboyant permagay Drake isn't.
I didn't really, the guy didn't have HIV. It was protected sex, but it was still a panic moment because it's more prevalent with anal sex with dudes.
Having sex with anyone can basically be an HIV/hepatitis/insert terrible STD here thing. My mom's best friend got Hep C from sharing a cocaine straw, and her guy got it from sex with another woman. Wasn't really the point of the story.
No worries, thanks! I actually really appreciate it. I only had one friend to fall back on that could tell me what to do next without ruining my personal life. Just venting about it anywhere is helpful. Cinemaphile is love, still.
I actually find it super ironic that a character wearing a mask, unwilling to share their true identity, happens to be the front facing picture of gay or bisexuality on a comic cover.
Yeah it is kind of ironic, I hate to keep you. But what do you think of the overall discourse surrounding the representation of bisexual characters? Be it in comic, cartoons, etc. In my eyes I can get were many are coming from, like in Tim Drake's case, but I always hear this argument tossed around that bi characters are simply gay. Or if they are in a relationship with the opposite sex it's erasure.
1 year ago
Anonymous
No worries about keeping me, I wish I could actually have this conversation with friends or even in more mainstream internet places.
>But what do you think of the overall discourse surrounding the representation of bisexual characters?
Bi erasure is completely a fricking thing. I spent a lot of time with a group of lesbians/bi women in my early 20s, and being with a bi woman, they felt like I was stealing one of their own.
>Be it in comic, cartoons, etc. In my eyes I can get were many are coming from, like in Tim Drake's case, but I always hear this argument tossed around that bi characters are simply gay.
That's exactly it. The argument is that they're repressing something important, but it's so fricking complex. I might be right, I might be wrong, but there's this flexible masculine or feminine dynamic that could be better phrased as dominant or submissive... but it's not cut and dry.
I think so many people are so naturally dialed into their sexual roles that breaking them doesn't make sense. And I don't mean that to say that they *should*. It just doesn't register.
I'm gonna continue with another reply so I don't hit character count.
1 year ago
Anonymous
No worries about keeping me, I wish I could actually have this conversation with friends or even in more mainstream internet places.
>But what do you think of the overall discourse surrounding the representation of bisexual characters?
Bi erasure is completely a fricking thing. I spent a lot of time with a group of lesbians/bi women in my early 20s, and being with a bi woman, they felt like I was stealing one of their own.
>Be it in comic, cartoons, etc. In my eyes I can get were many are coming from, like in Tim Drake's case, but I always hear this argument tossed around that bi characters are simply gay.
That's exactly it. The argument is that they're repressing something important, but it's so fricking complex. I might be right, I might be wrong, but there's this flexible masculine or feminine dynamic that could be better phrased as dominant or submissive... but it's not cut and dry.
I think so many people are so naturally dialed into their sexual roles that breaking them doesn't make sense. And I don't mean that to say that they *should*. It just doesn't register.
I'm gonna continue with another reply so I don't hit character count.
Bisexuality pisses people off. It's kinda like opening up an entire extra door to cheating. I think it's based in some insecurity that you might not be able to provide what they really want sexually.
>Or if they are in a relationship with the opposite sex it's erasure.
I'd say erasure actually works the other way around. Bisexual people are the ones who can't possibly like the opposite sex, from those who are gay. It's painful to them.
When I had sex with that guy, he asked me in bed if he'd turned me, and he got frustrated when I said no. I dunno. I think people wanna feel like their dick or pussy is so good that you're stuck with them.
Bisexually? Probably not. And I'd imagine that's what causes outrage.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Is the bi-cycle real?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Haha the best I could do was google that. Do you mean that we're more attracted to women at a certain time and men at another time? At best, maybe so. I mostly feel like I overlapped being so into women at some point that I wanted to see what it was like to be one. I got hit on in my teens a lot by other dudes.
1 year ago
Anonymous
> I might be right, I might be wrong, but there's this flexible masculine or feminine dynamic that could be better phrased as dominant or submissive... but it's not cut and dry.
I wonder if it is due to a lack of variability in terms of characterization on that front. I often hear people say with male bi characters they are more feminine or flamboyant. Not to say there shouldn't be characters like that, it would be nice to see them expand in terms of archetypes.
>I think it's based in some insecurity that you might not be able to provide what they really want sexually.
I guess that's likely, but for me I can still not fathom that. If I were in a steady monogamous relationship then they are already satisfying me whether or not they are either male or female, I would rather that than pursue pleasure with members of both sexes.
Thank you for your responses. It is refreshing to get some proper dialogue on this matter.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I often hear people say with male bi characters they are more feminine or flamboyant. Not to say there shouldn't be characters like that, it would be nice to see them expand in terms of archetypes.
I doubt anyone would view me as feminine or flamboyant unless they really put me under a microscope, or got unfettered access to my house. I like some girly colors, and I have a lot of feminine comic things around my house, but you'd probably consider me a coomer instead of someone who wants to be feminine or hook up with men.
As far as I work in bisexuality, I don't want to top any normal guy, and I honestly don't walk down the street thinking "wow, I'd like that guy to knock me down and frick me right here." There's a very weird line in my bisexuality where if I'm going to take it (like the one time I did), he has to be really fundamentally attractive, and if I'm going to top (which I haven't, but have come close to), they have to be really effeminate.
At the end of the day, I truly prefer a monogamous heterosexual thing with women.
>If I were in a steady monogamous relationship then they are already satisfying me whether or not they are either male or female, I would rather that than pursue pleasure with members of both sexes.
Me too. I'm fully into monogamy, I don't want to be with another guy, but I'm open to two women with me, which I've done.
I'm not really polyamorous, I've just had sex with another dude once, and probably never again.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I think it's based in some insecurity that you might not be able to provide what they really want sexually.
Steph confirmed for being such an awful partner that Tim jumped ass first onto Bernard’s lap.
People don't have to date anyone, to assume that all bisexual men have HIV is kind of ridiculous. Why not be wary of any partner you get into a relationship with be them homo, hetero, or bi. Veneral diseases don't discriminate. Everyone should be making sure that they are practicing safe activity and get checked up often. As well as making sure they are in a relationship with one they can absolutely trust, are there inevitably those who just wish for pleasure, absolutely but the problem does not lie at only one source.
>Why not be wary of any partner you get into a relationship with be them homo, hetero, or bi.
Because statistically speaking, you're more likely to get HIV from a homosexual/bi male than you will get it via contaminated blood or milk. The CDC literally lists them before women and children because of higher risks associated with their life styles.
https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/index.html
Also do you guys remember the time Jim Starlin wanted to kill off Jason Todd with AIDS in the mid 80s? True story.
Nonetheless I think caution is warranted in any relationship even if the risk is statistically lower. But to answer your question, yes I do remember hearing about that. If I remember correctly it didn't happen based on the vote or something like that.
>If I remember correctly it didn't happen based on the vote or something like that.
Before they had the phoneline vote, they had a vote within DC on who would be the character to die of AIDS because they were planning on doing an HIV awareness pamphlet or comics, and Jim Starlin wanted to stuff the ballet with Jason's name, only to find out that he got beaten the punch by everyone else who stuffed it with Jimmy Olsen.
>Veneral diseases don't discriminate.
In fact, they do, because gays are so promiscuous. The average gay has over 100 partners, has engaged in coprophagia, and any attempt to police the community's health is met with cries of bigotry so strong you'd never believe they were all pro-mask. Anyone who might potentially have had sex with a gay man should instantly be regarded as a health risk.
He's not wrong, the first gays to die where the ones who had who had really, REALLY fricked up lifestyles because their immune systems were more compromised than the rest of the population.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4082977/
When is Tim Drake going to talk about this in his comic?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>unrelated straw man rightoid bullshit
You have a board you need to frick off back to, tourist scum.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>the National Library of Medicine is /misc/
Lel
1 year ago
Anonymous
>more straw man garbage
We can all read, anon. Responding to a post with something that is not relevant to the post's point does not help your position.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Nice trips, but what we can learn from this is that Tim Drake is the Robin most likely to get HIV.
1 year ago
Anonymous
nobody cares, frick off with your disingenuous bullshit you pathetic homosexual
1 year ago
Anonymous
By that logic wouldn't Constantine be the most likely? Tim has a monogamous relationship. And he was wary of the risks of engagement in his prior relationships. Yet despite all that people kept joking he was a virgin too scared to take the next step.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>By that logic wouldn't Constantine be the most likely?
John isn't a Robin. >And he was wary of the risks of engagement in his prior relationships.
This was before the gay sex.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>logic
He's just having his meltdown over the gays on the wrong board for the 300th time. Help him get his ban and ignore.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I am aware, just wanted to see what would happen. But thanks for stepping in anyway.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>NOOOOOOO SOMEONE IS GOING AGAINST THE NARRATIVE MODS MODS MODS
Meltdown indeed, lmao
I don't really care that he's gay, but I do wish he was a top. He's such a fricking homosexual now. Quit drawing him with that face. You know the face I mean.
he's been a floundering character since new 52 started. Even before then they sort of destroyed his niche but he was still an ok character for the most part. The gay thing was just a cheap way to create buzz and doesn't really do anything for the character. Hell in story it was actually pretty shitty and had horrible execution. His current book is complete trash from just about every angle and if you told me they were trying their best to bury him as a character I would believe it since the alternative is hilarious incompetence. Just toss him onto the ever growing pile of decent characters that got turned to shit
>hilarious incompetence
Given Fitzmartin's social media posts, it's exactly that. It's been pretty obvious for awhile that no one at DC has any ideas for either Tim or Damian and they've been throwing shit to see what sticks. The issue with making Tim gay (or any other character really) is that they don't want writers to actually write about being coming out. There is no introspection or soul-searching, no coming to terms with emotionally and figuring out how to move forward. Just look at how writers aren't even on the same page as to how Tim and Steph are dealing with it. Fitzmartin has Tim introducing Steph to Bernard (despite them going to highschool together) and Steph being happy and excited about it, while Batgirls and Urban Legends has Tim ghosting Steph for months before showing up with someone new and still not wanting to deal with it. If you want something interesting to write about with Tim being gay, how about actually writing an emotional narrative about what it means to come out when you have an opposite sex partner that you genuinely love. But lets be real, they just want asspats and marketing fodder.
Steph and Bernard didn't go to high school together, Bernard and Tim did (with Darla), and that also doesn't conflict with him ignoring her for months. I don't think any other book suggests he did otherwise.
But yes, it's a problem that these stories of coming out involve virtually no real coming out. Tim has a tiny amount of personal introspection, but like so much else with him it's thoroughly desexualized to the point that it could be a crisis about anything. Realistically, he should be directly examining his sexual/romantic interests and determining that he likes things in addition to what Steph offers. He sort of says that in that issue, but there's no journey!
With Jon it's even worse. He's just instantly dating a terrible guy with no thought given. It doesn't make his sexuality implausible, just undeveloped.
It still conflicts because Tim flat out ghosted her and Steph is not okay with it as per Batgirls. We're talking about someone who suddenly cut his gf out of his life with zero explanation only to show back up with someone else on his arm. At best you could say that Steph was just pretending to be happy for Tim so she wouldn't come off as the bad guy but that'd still be out of character for Steph.
It totally depends on the artist.
Rossmo? Tim Tops. Moore? Bernard tops. Ortega is vers.
I'd swap Rossmo and Moore. Granted, Rossmo's art looks more like Tim and Bernard are aliens wearing human suits and them having sex would involve removing skin to deploy genitals unheard of on Earth. Seriously, what the frick is up with his art on the book? Is it just a rushed fill-in job or something? His prior work was miles better.
I think the issue with Rossmo's take is that he has Bernard doing too much of what looks like literal mincing and also put him in weird shorts he has no business being in.
On the other point, I meant it didn't factually conflict. There wasn't another comic saying they'd actually been chatting over the several months between breaking up and him deciding to date Bernard. The real problem, of course, is that the narrative has so little page space and therefore is so hypercompressed Steph doesn't have a chance to process any of it, just like Tim doesn't have a chance to process himself meaningfully. Instead they skip right to the conclusion, which makes sense as the conclusion of an emotional journey but isn't really earned.
Also Bernard should not have been locked in a restaurant waiting for them to hash their shit out in what is supposed to be a pride issue.
It's like Rossmo was told Tim is now gay and has a boyfriend and the only thing he could think of to do with that information is to have characters mince while wearing tiny shorts. It's like something you'd expect out of a parody. You're right, there really isn't a narrative because they cut out damn near everything, and what rump of a conclusion we get is so milquetoast and safe that they might as well have not bothered bringing it up in the first place. Even something like Steph saying she's angry and upset but she's managing or Tim being unable to shake feeling like a shitheel in his quiet moments would go a long way to making it feel real. When Ms. Marvel had Zoe dump Josh because she finally came out of the closet it really pissed me off because the conversation was framed as Zoe being unhappy in the closet was an excuse for treating Josh like shit and how he should be happy for her. It just left me feeling cold because we got the usual "I'm so happy for you" stuff and all I could think was poor Josh for having to put up with a c**t of a gf who now acts like being miserable in the closet gives her a pass. And cold is all I'm feeling about this. Made worse by not actually having been given a reason to care about the new Bernard (not that I really cared that much for the old one but at least he had a personality). I've seen joke posts in Batgirls threads with a better handle on how to deal with Tim and Steph than the actual comic.
And Bernard having to wait alone as his new bf hashes out a bunch of drama with his ex would have been way too real for the inoffensive mush the out of context panel crowd on Twitter wants, which is why that Pride story isn't about Bernard at all.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>not depicted: bernard wolfs down three orders of fries and a jumbo shake as he tries not to act like he's freaking the frick out because his boyfriend is having a moment with his ex in front of the restaurant
It's the shorts that really ruin it. An in-shape gay guy in a baseball tee? Sure, no problem. Little boy shorts? What?
The 'former love interest is thrilled you told them why it's over and it's not their fault' is of course a classic fantasy of coming out stories, but it's also deeply boring and, even in the best of circumstances, not quite what happens. So much wasted potential.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Steph, I know it's rough and you're hurting, but I just want you to know that it's not your fault; it was never anything you did. >Frick you, Tim, all I'm hearing is "Where's your goddamn penis, Steph? How can I date someone without a penis?" You were the one who said no to the strapon!
I know the current style is for above the knee on guy's shorts, but it makes him look like he doesn't know how to dress himself.
It's a classic fantasy of coming out stories, but it also doesn't work as wish fulfillment because it's never given any room to emotionally connect and it's so commonplace that you've seen it all before.
1 year ago
Anonymous
How Steph handled it was some of the worst, most unrealistic shit I've ever seen. This chick who's "madly in love with you" gets ghosted and then dumped for a new gay lover but just shrugs it off? It's even more than a shrug off; she's actually "happy" and supports that shit with few complaints. That whole dumbass situation could have been an entertaining arc but they just skipped all over it and went "here's how things are now, everybody loves it, deal with it"
See, now these feel like reasonable complaints about stuff like this. I get that people WANT it to be this easy in the real world, that you decide one day that you're bi and you get a boy/girlfriend and everyone's happy for you, but that's not realistic, and while people should be able to get a happy ending, it's never going to come without SOME difficulty. Show someone like Steph having trouble with it but eventually working past it, show Tim having doubts and overcoming them, show how we GOT here. This is all the catharsis with none of the effort.
>Rossmo's art looks more like Tim and Bernard are aliens wearing human suits and them having sex would involve removing skin to deploy genitals unheard of on Earth
Funny that you mention this, because Rossmo did draw a sex scene between Martian Manhunter and his wife once.
>Steph and Bernard didn't go to high school together, Bernard and Tim did
Yeah, Tim only mentioned Bernard to her, but she never met him from what I remember.
Anon might be confused for Tim's OTHER blonde best friend from Tim's solo, Ives, who did go to school with Steph. Ives pretty much disappeared in favor of Bernard for a bit. There's like one other blonde friend Tim has in his boarding school, too.
Bruh, there is no way that Bernard tops. I really hate how people act like Tim is the blushing uWu softboi when he's incredibly driven and aggressive. I get that everyone is a mincing, effeminate twink in the book but holy shit does it piss me off. [spoiler]Plus we all know that Damian is the superbrat bottom bawd of the Batfamily.[/spoiler]
>90s Tim could possibly be a top.
Based, reminder that Steph wasn't even interested in Tim romantically until he kissed her first out of nowhere after she saved him from a deathtrap. Plus him hooking up with Jubilee. People can cite him turning down Ariana, but she went full crazy by then.
Johns wasn't the one that made Tim gay.
When you start comparing Tim's relationship with Kon to Monsieur Mallah and the Brain, it gets very suspect. Tim and Kon were friends before Johns, but they never felt like soulmates or anything. Bart felt more like Kon's best friend with Tim as sort of the buzzkill they like.
[...]
Most fans that enjoyed this development are tired of Bernard and the lack of depth in their relationship. Plus they have been baiting TimKon all the while as seen here in this panel in the Tim Drake Special where they were holding hands. And they all but "confirmed" Tim's one-sided crush on Conner after he died in the Dark Crisis: Young Justice mini. Whether it will come into fruition is highly unlikely due to Jon being out.
>Tim had two love interests at one point >a sweet and innocent girl named Secret, she's younger than him and has a puppylike crush on him and literally can't be physical with him >a feisty girl who puts out named Spoiler, she's older than him, actually dating him and takes more initiative being physical with him
This was a fun angle, too bad they didn't do much with it
So apparently she hasn’t had a single appearance since 2001, not even a cameo! Online info on her is very scarce though so there’s a very good chance the four sources I checked are missing something. But considering they all appear to agree on that means if she did have any appearances they were very minimal.
Though interestingly she apparently had her first appearance in over 20 years last month in a cameo in New Golden Age.
This makes me sad as a Post-Crisis DC kid who grew up with him as Robin and Jason dead
Like can't they just make the gay one Tom Drake from Earth-whatever
Tim coming out was super boring because there was no conflict, there was tension leading up to it, no inner turmoil of him trying to make sense of who he is and what it means to be bisexual. They just give him a boyfriend and everyone accepts it and that's that.
I think it's fine that everyone accepts it (even Steph, eventually), but it's definitely a missed opportunity. He should have been at least a little bit freaked out that he hadn't already realized something about himself because he never bothered to think about it. And admitted to himself that he always found his older brothers hot.
Tim Drake: Robin
Is it the gay neighborhood? It just seems like eccentric lower class people in a big city. It's a pretty standard trope.
How Steph handled it was some of the worst, most unrealistic shit I've ever seen. This chick who's "madly in love with you" gets ghosted and then dumped for a new gay lover but just shrugs it off? It's even more than a shrug off; she's actually "happy" and supports that shit with few complaints. That whole dumbass situation could have been an entertaining arc but they just skipped all over it and went "here's how things are now, everybody loves it, deal with it"
I was never personally of the opinion that their relationship was super intense, one for the ages etc, and they are supposed to be good friends regardless, so it doesn't competely bother me that she gets over it in time, but otherwise yes, it's something DC definitely should have devoted some pages to, if for no other reason than that they give plenty of heterosexual characters panel space for relationship drama. Consider how many volumes could be filled just with Dick's girlfriends. This was low-hanging fruit, so to speak, and they ignored it because for some reason they couldn't bring themselves to give a fairly major character enough room to have a natural depiction of significant life events.
>I was never personally of the opinion that their relationship was super intense, one for the ages etc, and they are supposed to be good friends regardless, so it doesn't competely bother me that she gets over it in time
Anon, they're partners in the war against crime, they know each better than their parents do, and them some because of their romantic past.
Yes, I don't disagree. I just always found their romance to be rather low key. It wasn't unbelievable, it just didn't have the intensity of a lot of other comic book romances, so it doesn't outrage me that Steph didn't fly off the handle and turn into a psychopath over it. The fact that they do know each other so well makes me think her real issue should be about him disappearing for too long, because they should be long-term friends regardless of their other status.
>This chick who's "madly in love with you" gets ghosted and then dumped for a new gay lover but just shrugs it off? It's even more than a shrug off; she's actually "happy" and supports that shit with few complaints.
I hate to play devil's advocate (not as much as I hate this whole gay/bi Tim thing), but it's not like Steph had much of an option, what else could she have done or said? >Frick you Tim Drake, you're a horrible person and I hope you get AIDS!
Tim isn't just the guy who said he loved her more than anything before ghosting her and hooking up with some guy he went to high school, he's also a long time friend, someone she truly loves, and technically a co-worker, so I don't think it's too out of the question to imagine Steph is simply swallowing her pride and anger for everyone's sake, the last thing the Bat-Familys needs is more drama, and Tim, who just came out as bisexual, needs the support of his loved ones, so what she says and does matters a lot to Tim.
That said, I don't think they meant for this to be the case, and that we are meant to simply take what happened at face value, without thinking more about how Steph might actually feel about this whole situation, if you ask me, this whole thing was just fricked from the beginning.
I think the problem is a couple things. Steph, love her or hate her, is a character who's always worn her emotions on her sleeve. Its the reason she's both loved, and hated by swaths of fans- the fact that she tends to lash out and be headstrong. I don't think she'd make a scene either, but I don't think she'd be entirely happy. She's a character constantly plagued by self doubt and feelings of inadequacy.
I think Steph wouldn't necessarily be hurt by Tim breaking up with her, as much as she'd feel upset that the person she's spent so much time with and confided with didn't trust her enough to be honest with her. They were a couple, but the break up has entirely been about him The only follow up we get from her is being happy for Tim and not being ready for romance yet. It all feels very shallow, and it doesn't help that Batgirls doesn't give much insight to her internal thoughts which always used to be a big part of her character.
It's entirely possible to remain professional, even though in Tim and Steph's case their superhero and social lives are a near complete overlap, while working with an ex, and in this case Steph and Tim aren't even based out of the same neighborhoods. It's not on the part of the dumpee to swallow their feelings and be the bigger person either. Steph could have torn into Tim for what he did with perfect justification, and if the rest of the Batfamily had issues with the intergroup drama she could have told them to frick off and take their complaints to Tim with the same justification. They're not going to cut Tim out of their lives or become hostile to him for getting a bf. The issue people have is that Steph's course of action not only reads as out of character but that it also lacks verisimilitude. No matter how supportive a person is they're going to take umbrage at their significant other dropping them for someone else.
Or, as other anon pointed out, not being honest. That is at least how it would appear to her (we would know that's only stuff he figured out afterward, so it had nothing to do with her), so it would be the organic opportunity for them to have things out and him to explain the situation properly and apologize for being an butthole.
>Is it the gay neighborhood? It just seems like eccentric lower class people in a big city. It's a pretty standard trope.
Anon is exaggerating, but the book does have more LGBTQ people than usual, even the detective Tim works with is gay, but I want to think that's less about the neighborhood itself, and more about the writer wanting to make Tim hang around these kind of people.
Similarly, there does seem to be a subplot about how some people in the neighborhood are having trouble keeping their jobs, this seems to be about the fact that they're from the Marina, but it could also be read as straight up homophobia, I swear the DCU isn't usually this bigoted.
That's one lesbian couple in a major boswash city. I'm not aware of anyone else there who's any king of lgbt, though I could be wrong, and the art sure doesn't make it any easier to tell.
Homophobia makes little sense in that context, but the fact that they're weirdos from a shitty weirdo neighborhood works regardless of their proclivities.
>That's one lesbian couple in a major boswash city.
I'm mainly talking about the supporting non-fodder and non-background characters, of course it's just one lesbian couple, but they appear multiple times and do more than the others mentioned there.
Tuna mostly sticks to the background for example. >the art sure doesn't make it any easier to tell.
Same honestly, there's this one character who I thought maybe is trans? But it may have just been some very masculine woman. >Homophobia makes little sense in that context, but the fact that they're weirdos from a shitty weirdo neighborhood works regardless of their proclivities.
See, that's what I thought, but the book also uses terms like "his kind" and "degenerates", so maybe the characters really are just homophobic.
I can vaguely recall the possibly trans character you're mentioning, so maybe it's another. Or maybe not! Who can tell?
To me it reads more like a class problem because of some other stuff about everyone hating the marina and wanting to replace it with, like, anything else. Could be homophobia too, but if so it's a bit muddled with general dislike of a place that frankly should be burnt down so they can put something nicer in its place. Usually gay neighborhoods are attractive places to be, and that's why they can have trouble surviving; gentrifying yuppies and the like move in because they heard about the nice trendy neighborhood with affordable prices, and then rates skyrocket and the gays go somewhere less full of squares.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>To me it reads more like a class problem because of some other stuff about everyone hating the marina and wanting to replace it with, like, anything else. Could be homophobia too
To me it reads like both, specially with how much emphasis it's been put in Tim's love for Bernard, and how they said everyone there is some kind of an outcast, I don't think it's too out of the question to imagine they're disliked for multiple reasons.
1 year ago
Anonymous
It's possible. The marina itself is just a weird setting. I think the book notes that it's unusual that such an impoverished place is occupying waterfront land in a major city. That's separate from whoever might be living in it, and if anything it's the least believable feature unless it's planned to be some kind of wacky conspiracy we won't find out about becuse this shit is super cancelled.
Maybe they'll realize nobody wants to read a bat story where everyone's hideous.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>becuse this shit is super cancelled.
They cancelled it already?
1 year ago
Anonymous
No, but it's inevitable. Fujos are staying away in droves, and they were needed to prop up sales. I will be mildly surprised if it makes it to as many issues as Jon's book and a lot more surprised if it gets a relaunch like Jon.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Fujos are staying away in droves
Those people don't even read comics. In fact those are the very people Gail Simone shat on for being fake homies.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>those are the very people Gail Simone shat on
Are you serious? Is it quoted somewhere?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Funny enough, it was on her tumblr blog.
https://gailsimone.tumblr.com/post/115217768935/tumblr-fandom
1 year ago
Anonymous
>shat on >links to a post where she politely asks if this is a real thing and points out the supposed hardcore obviously don't read comics either, which we all know to be true because we have been to Cinemaphile
1 year ago
Anonymous
Your point?
1 year ago
Anonymous
The point is your claim is invalid because your evidence is plainly not what you claimed. If you have another post wher she actually says that, by all means link away.
1 year ago
Anonymous
My claim is validated by the fact that nobody actually likes Jon or Tim's romances. If they did, then the supposed legion of fujos would buy it, but they don't those people just stick to their fanfiction and inner circles. Also >fujos
That's a term that should be reserved for Japanese shit. Its cringe seeing that term applied to capeshit.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>my claim is validated by headcanons
If you don't like fujo (which I agree with), we can always call them slash fen like the old days. In general, I've noticed far less opposition to Bernard than to Jay. It's not an enthusiastic embrace, which is completely understandable given the weak material and Rossmo ruining everything, but there's not much opposition to it in the way loads of people don't like the Asian caricature.
Nobody who's interested in a story about cute boys is going to pay for a story about ugly boys where one of the ugly boys barely shows up for six months.
Regardless, this has nothing to do with your claim that fujos don't read comics. In my experience, a fair number of the ones who like cpaeshit absolutely do. Back in the day, they'd tell me about their pull boxes. Nowadays, of course, why would a girl put up with going to a physical store?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>hurr no one reads comics unless angry shut-ins tell me i say so
Don't bother posting if you're going to spout brainless homosexualry.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I feel like the kind of fujos who like Tim are the kind that actually do buy comics and merch. Tim merch that's the twinkier Tim they like tends to go for big money. Its not like modern MCU fujos.
>But that's the thing. Bernard brings out the real me. Makes me feel like... there's so much more for me than I've settled for.
I know it's not the intention, but this really reads like they're downplaying Tim's relationship with Steph, implying he wasn't the "real him" with her, and that now that he has Bernard, he doesn't has to settle for her.
Completely off panel and we don't know when or how. Tim and steph largely had sporadic appearances after the new Young Justice series ended except for things like Cass and Steph becoming Batgirls again. Then a few months after that they're broken up despite the YJ series ending with them together. All we know is that it seems Tim initiated it.
Would it be wrong to suggest DC is treating the Bendis take on YJ as something that didn't really happen except for the part where it brought Kon back?
Pretty much, even Batgirls is ignoring it with them treating Cluemaster as thought dead until the last few issues. They're also explaining his resurrection. Problem is, YJ just picks up the status quo Tynion left them on (having a roadtrip together) so its not just YJ being ignored, but a run that's still fairly popular. And Tim and Steph had basically spent the last 5 years joined at the hip.
That would be kind of funny. >steph isn't interested >tries to flirt with jon but jon is busy with his boyfriend Ash >kon needs too much alcohol before he puts out >gotham city, which still wants to frick him, starts leaving creepy voicemail
>2024
Too soon, Tim will maybe try to hook up with steph again in 15 years when they're both bisexual and there's no stigma against walking back the bisexuality and culturally there's less of a discussion one way or another. Bernard probably has another 4 years or so before they finally hook up Tim with another (male) hero.
Nah, Fitzmartin is the only one that seems particularly attached to Bernard in the books. Titans and Gotham Knights bring him, too, bit that's more because he's an easy character to adapt since he's not tied by any rights issues.
A gay, male Batfam member is PRIME ASS. Titans editors are itching to pair him up with some gay teen hero. hooking him up with another gay male character will float them. Conversely, this might just save Bernard because bat editors can lock there characters down, but I just know writers are itching to use Tim with other guys now. Except Kon, they won't let people have him.
It's still absolutely mind-boggling that they managed to out the wrong combination of Superbats and STILL refused to immediately jettison their boyfriends and mash them together.
Tim and Jon turning gay was done separately, their respective editorials apparently didn't know about what the other one was doing. And honestly? I for one am glad Tim and Jon became the token gays, I don't want Kon and Damian to be part of any of this bullshit.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I know it was separate processes and that's why they didn't have a joint coming out, but there's been more than enough time to realize it's stupid that they're both stuck with literal whos (at least Tim's existed beforehand and is kind of cute) instead of having corrective measures taken.
If it's any better, Tim and Jon are having a team up in a back-up for Batman.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Tim and Jon are having a team up in a back-up for Batman
Someone hide the Crisco
1 year ago
Anonymous
I bet they won't even talk about their sexuality even though that's a case where it would be totally natural and expected.
1 year ago
Anonymous
How would it be brought up outside of discussing their relationships? I suppose that would work out naturally. But even then they are working together, I wouldn't be surprised if people complained about that occurring though. Seeing as they'd have other priorities.
1 year ago
Anonymous
There would be a natural urge to compare notes as two members of close families about the same age who just went through a similar slightly unusual personal experience. I don't think it should lead to a deep moral lesson or something, and it should obviously wait until there's down time, but it would be kind of weird not to bring it up at all when it's an obvious point of commonality for two characters who haven't really interacted much (or at all?) before.
Let's be honest, the only reason why Steph only reacted as she did is because if she did explode in Steph fashion, she would be seen as a biphobic skinhead nazi or some shit.
Steph is too beloved by the same people who like Tim with guys and has her own homosexual ship independent of him. She's essentially bulletproof. Everyone would be prepared to dine on their drama for months.
The problem is you really need to show the straight people in the audience that it's okay to have doubts and concerns and then walk that audience through them to show them they can still be okay if they're ever in the same situation. Set an example for the people who need it. I guess it'd be hard to work through all that in one issue, which you'd basically have to do to avoid that very issue you mention, but I think it's just as important to speak to those people as much as the gay/bi people you're trying to reach with this in the first place.
Here’s the thing… this is a cape comic. That shit doesn’t warrant page space in a cape comic. So maybe they should frick off with the sexuality shit all together
Pretty sure plenty of other comics have lots and lots of time spent on relationships. Literally all you have to do to make any relationship drama look like bog standard capeshit is to have some other plotline going on at the same time so there's somebody to punch nearby.
It wasn't done in the main comics. This took place over some backups in an escort title and an event anthology. Perhaps you didn't read it and have the impression that this was a much more elaborate process than it was?
>Perhaps you didn't read it and have the impression that this was a much more elaborate process than it was?
I read it once because a friend let me read it during a lunch break and that was a long ago.
Honestly, if Tim had done the exact same thing, but instead of Bernard, it was a girl, everyone would be rightfully calling him out for how much of a shitty person he is.
I'm fine with Tim being bi, but I hate how he's going to be plastered on the Pride issues with the trannies and parade freaks as if he was always one of them.
>Yep. I adore Captain America and his associates, but Rick Remender is a shitty writer who can’t even be bothered to check whether the term “homeschool” was used in the 1920′s (hint: it wasn’t). I will not buy the book until he’s off it, and even then I’m going to wait to see who the next writer is before putting it on my pull list.
heh
It was a stupid idea made to sate gays
none. since after this the character will become irrelevant just like Iceman did after "comming out of the closet"
But Timmy has been irrelevant for quite some time now.
I never liked Tim, anyway
Tim fans better pray Damian’s movie does bad. Otherwise Tim can say goodbye to the mantle again.
Nah. DC will just call Tim and Damian both Robin. Like they are currently doing before Damian gets a name change. Just like Clark and Jon sharing the Superman name and Miles sharing the Spider-Man name with Peter.
>Like they are currently doing before Damian gets a name change.
Zero chance of that happening now with the Damian movie in developments. gay enablers like Fitzmartin will get blacklisted before this happens.
You're an idiot.
Don't you mean bisexual? In the Tim Drake special he speaks with Stephanie about his then recent revelation. With the last bubble on page 65, saying he doesn't only like females. Sure it's not much and Fitzmartin's direction has been only getting worse, but at the bare minimum it does state more or less that he is into both. Whether or not his current relationship with Bernard will persist is beyond me, but that's besides the point.
Bisexual is just code for gay. It is just something the writers says to make it seem like the character is still attracted to women when he never date women ever again or find them attractive.
You’re nothing but propaganda. homosexualry is pushed by the corporations to reduce the working classes power and you’re nothing but weapons wielded against your own families. You’re not brave thinkers or revolutionaries, just weak minded gays with no ability to love anyone beyond yourselves
Got anything else to say? My you are so presumptuous. I am not a fan of the change either.
It’s not about change, if this was just to get you to be acknowledged this wouldn’t be a topic. But you’re on the side of our mutual oppressors because you do nothing but weaken the connection within communities
>enslave the working class
>by making it easier for them to frick, spend less on kids, reject capitalist Jesus, and create worker demand by slowing the population growth.
>>by making it easier for them to get AIDs, spend more on consooming since there will be no future generation, reject any parts of their local community not obsessed with poopsex, and create an excuse to import third worlders to replace you with by slowing native population growth.
Man even I think the other guy is being moronic but your argument is even worse.
>create worker demand by slowing the population growth.
no mass immigration in order to suppress rising wages.
You got a bigger threat from automation or job exportation. Legal immigrants still get same rights and costs as citizens. Illegals are doing bottom of society basic b***h shit or jobs people don't want to pay US citizens for in first place.
Your ability to threaten higher wages comes from cutting out middle management (work from home) and in a complicated field Pedro can't pick up in an afternoon.
>Don't you mean bisexual?
Because at the end of the day its still homosexualry and it effectively ruined what little credibility Tim has a man.
At least according to you anon, it's not as if your the epitome of masculinity either on this forum.
man that's probably the hottest Steph's ever been drawn which makes him going NO WAY gay to her even more damning.
True, if Tim was reelly bi, she would have taken Steph behind the closest dumpster and shagged her silly.
hey now, being bi he can plow both of them behind the dumpster. Nerdy straight laced Tim stuck with two horny blonde bimbos that just want to drain him constantly.
>h-he still likes w-women
This was the same cope bicucks made in 2021 when Jon Kent became bi lmao
How else then would a bisexual character be depicted if they are now in a same sex relationship? They still have an attraction to the opposite sex hence the name. If a heterosexual is in a relationship it doesn't mean they won't find other members of the opposite sex any less attractive.
i mean bisexual men in comics are written as flaming homosexuals, they need to fix that
Even then people would still complain if they end up with a same-sex partner. I would prefer variation in terms of characterization it's not as if men who are into men are a monolith of a flamboyant archetype.
>Even then people would still complain if they end up with a same-sex partner.
i wont, just don't make them queens and less people will complain
Fair enough, I don't disagree. Like I said I would prefer variation as well.
>things that never happened
compelling
Here's the thing, you don't make male characters bisexual or else you end up like Tim. Just keep female characters bisexual or gay.
You can't have it one way anon. There are men in the world that are into both sexes.
Bisexuals are usually just seen as gay or straight at different times, there's a reason Catwoman doesn't show up in the big DC Pride celebrations, even though she's technically bisexual.
Bisexual here. I hate you pride homosexuals like the plague and would never be caught dead macking it with some fairy like Jon’s boyfriend. You show us by making us miserable and horny.
Most of us stay more closeted than full on gay men specifically because all this pride shit has made people even less accepting of everything. It’s just since we pass better thanks to not having gay voice and shit we actually hear people’s thoughts on the matter rather than placations. Like hearing how racist white northeastern liberals can be when around other people like them.
Don't associate me with people like that, seeing only the activism regarding this discourse, flaunting pride. I was only asking questions, I don't like what I am seeing either in regards to these characters. There is obviously more nuance when it comes to this discussion of "representation" in media. With the recent onslaught of these "outed" characters being depicted in a narrow way.
Hiring people who use the term “Representation” is what’s killing the big 2.
I just felt Steph was subjected to some kind of humilliation ritual in this issue, where she had to pretend she was okay with everything happening around her lest she be regarded a bigot.
>i felt steph was secretly a bigot because i'm one and i wanted to make up a reason to cry on Cinemaphile
>man you’re into comes out as gay and you have to eat shit, swallow your own feelings and pretend you don’t feel anything negative
anon sounds like YOU’RE the one projecting and coping, I don’t think you have to be too bigoted to struggle with this one
That would have been a pretty fricked up situation for Steph if Tim decided to abruptly go off and frick some other girl, and Steph had to be actually enthusiastic about it.
Not really? They hadn't just broken up three days ago; it had been months. Steph's had to endure Tim having other girlfriends before and was never shown secretly raging about that harlot Tam or whatever.
But that was the best part of that whole story.
>You can't call me gay just because I'm a guy who sucks wiener and eats ass and gets fricked in the ass with wieners and eats cum!
You assume too much anon, If you are a single heterosexual male does that mean you are any less straight than a heterosexual in a relationship, of course not. But you will still come around with the double standard non-argument nonetheless.
People can be bisexual irl, but in fiction usually anyone who's had a significant same sex relationship in the story will mostly only date the same sex. They would be terrified of the reaction if Tim started dating a woman again and call it "gay erasure". Fans did it when Harley Quinn x Booster Gold dated. But we all know she will end up with Ivy as the default.
>I did like you Steph, it's just that I like men so much more...
>break up with your gf because you're bi
That doesn't make any sense and it only makes Tim look like a jerk
It's far from good writing, my only explanation is that Fitzmartin was trying to approach the topic of Tim's bisexuality as him being conflicted. And as a result he wanted to explore his interest in the same-sex. I'd say its better off than him cheating on her like how he did to Ariana when he was dating Stephanie as Robin.
Batgirls pretty much states Tim ghosted Steph to hook up with Bernard.
Honestly if Tim met Bernard when he was still dating Steph and ghosted her after that out of conflict of the emotions he had over his feelings, I'd get it more. But the way things are presented, Tim seemed to feel conflicted out of the blue, which is why he broke up with her, and then conveniently he meets with Bernard who he ends up having feelings for. Its all so convenient it feels contrived.
That was the same situation in Urban Legends. We're just told they broke up and Tim hasn't spoken to her for months.
It means that Tim's love for Steph doesn't compare to his love for wiener, obviously.
Good thing that isn't what that panel means then. He's saying he liked Steph regardless of her sex. The language isn't complicated.
That said, there was stuff to be annoyed about in that story, not least that it was in a pride issue and it spent the whole time having a guy talk to his ex-girlfriend about him having a boyfriend while his current boyfriend was trapped in a diner.
When a friend of mine came out to me he said he was bi, then as the years went by it was pretty clear he just preferred men. The only time you’re gonna see Tim with a woman again is in an AU.
Well I can't speak on their behalf, I have heard that it is not exactly a 50/50 split.
Yeah, being bi isn't a 50/50 thing, that's why a lot of zoomers say they're bi, it's an easy way to say they're part of the LGBTQ without fully committing to being gay.
If that's the case why bother, if I think you are insinuating they do it for attention. I don't doubt some people do, but to entertain your idea. Why label themselves amongst a majority within the community that has also been seen with derision amongst that community?
>I think you are insinuating they do it for attention
Kinda, but not necessarily, I'm insinuating they do it mainly to belong, so they can be part of this big gay community, and can stand out from "just" being straight.
>Why label themselves amongst a majority within the community that has also been seen with derision amongst that community?
Because even though some hate bi people, they have to accept that they are part of the LGBT community, so in a way they seem like underdogs, some might say they're not "true" LGBT, but others will accept them, that's just how it works.
I can't believe Tim sucks off dudes for the clout
That’s not the point I’m trying to make, the point is, coming out as bi is just so they can ease the character for everyone. Eventually he’s just going to be fully gay.
Why would they ease the character for people who ignore/look down upon comic books?
Being bi isn't a 50/50 thing, preference depends on the person. Tim could romantically love Steph, but love physical relations with Bernard more.
Let’s be real, bisexual these days in comics is basically just used as soft gay in which the writer says that the character is still attracted to the opposite sex but will never actually pair them with it since then the Twitter crowd will complain about queer erasure
It already happened. Constantine is constantly with women in dcau
>Constantine is constantly with women in dcau
When was the last time that happened?
Whenever he and Zatanna are in a comic together
>Heckblazer
Doesn't count.
Constantine has been bi since the 90’s, way before it was a trend for everyone and their grandmother to be LGBT and that was used as a substitute for character rather than just being a piece of who they are as a whole. He’s not exactly a new bisexual
Oh anon, you know as well as I do that bisexuals don't exist and are just closeted gay men in denial.
Jon being bisexual is a wildcard, when they want a story set in the future , he will have a girlfriend and children
Tim being bisexual is just "we want him to be gay but some lgbt guys will complain about erasure".
>when they want a story set in the future , he will have a girlfriend and children
He’ll marry his boy-Catwoman and raise their adopted child together.
Don't worry Tim, Dick's apartment has room for all the Batgirls
Everyone knows bisexual = gay/dyke.
Queers never want a bisexual to end up with someone of the opposite sex.
And evidently in this forum heterosexuals don't want them to end up with a member of the same sex.
Exactly, queers want bisexuals to just be gay or a dyke, and heteros just want them to be hetero.
My point is nobody likes bisexuals and nobody ever really depicts them as what they're supposed to be.
So then what are they supposed to be? How would they be better depicted, should they be in a steady relationship?
I mean realistically the easiest way to depict a bisexual person well is the same way you'd depicit a straight or gay person if you're allowed to akcnowledge sexality exists.
I mean, think of it like this:
What healthy young man of his age isn't ogling or thinking about the assorted people he finds attractive, or even just making a dumbass of himself talking to this new hot stranger?
You could literally put a bisexual in a relationship with a person of either sex and demonstrate the fact they're bisexual just by having them express an attraction to people of both sexes.
If Tim is in the same room as Catwoman and Nightwing it's only natural his eyes would bounce between their asses.
Alright I suppose that make sense, but every time I always hear the same complaint. That whenever a character is bisexual they just see them as gay if they end up with a same sex partner. Or another complaint would likely be if this scenario you described were to happen would be, why do they need to remind us? We get it you like both. But then again you can't please everyone.
I think part of the problem is that writers tend to not really represent a bisexual as being bisexual. They could even show this in the form of giving the character different flings over time in which they’re shown in a relationship with someone of both sexes. Problem is that the second they make a character bisexual, they want to put them in a major relationship that will basically be the relationship they have either from there in out or until the writer or a future writer breaks them up. In that regard, their bisexuality is basically an informed attribute while they’re presented as gay
>So then what are they supposed to be? How would they be better depicted, should they be in a steady relationship?
Here's how: you just don't depict them at all.
Well that's never going to happen now is it?
Its fine, the gays eclipse the bis in media representation despite the formers being a bigger group.
What is your issue with bisexuals exactly, might I ask?
Not racist, just don't like 'em.
How come, if you don't mind homosexuals? Either way I think your dislike is a bit unfounded, to put an understatement.
im an uncaught up with post 2011 canon. Is it still canon that Steph was pregnant at 15, Tim helped her through the pregnancy then Steph gave up the baby because she thought she'd be a bad parent. with Tim helping her in her time of crisis being what leads to their relation ship or has baby brown been erased from existence.
That I am unsure of, sorry to say. Why do you wonder if I may ask?
I just want to know. Also it would be nice to know what Cassandra's current origin is and if the events of no man's land happened at all.
Regarding Stephanie's teen pregnancy, most likely no. There has been no mention of a kid since her character got rebooted. Cass is still Shiva's and Cain's daughter. I think her last name is Wu-San now, not Cain, but not sure on that last part.
Hasn’t been mentioned because the Batgirls book is catering to the Batman Family Adventures crowd. Reminding everyone that Steph is a grown woman who got teen pregnant, gave up her kid, and never looked back, all so she could keep hopping around on rooftops at night… it just brings down the vibes.
Steph's kid is just a ticking bomb waiting for some edgy writer to bring it up for easy drama.
If they last till 2040 without another reboot, the kid might finally be old enough to search her out on their own.
Why wait? Introduce him as a grown ass man and say that it happened because of one of the multiple universe resets.
Was it a boy? I thought she didn't want to know.
The kid is probably 7ish now, right? And it's been some 25 years since the pregnancy arc. So another 20 years for the kid to become a teen seems reasonable.
Only if they age Steph up enough. She could remain teen forever, like Billy Batson.
Ah, another person who hasn't actually read any of Steph's old appearances.
Steph has never been older than 19 in any continuity, so the kid can't be older than 4.
Steph was 18 and a freshman in college during Batman: Reborn. Damian was 10.
Damian is now 14.
It's easy math.
Steph doesn't seem older than 17 right now.
Soon Damian will claim her.
>early 20s zoomers acting like teenagers
what's the problem?
Damian has aged up, the other characters have not. If you start basing ages on comparison to other characters age then Damian should be somewhere in his early 20s.
Does shiva still have the cult that worshipped her as the reincarnation of shiva or is she just league of shadows now?
The Wu-San thing is just Young Justice because they didn’t put Cain in her origin
You assume too much anon. Besides it's not as if bisexuals are taking anything from you.
His sexuality has damn near nothing to do with the writing. It's like DC is afraid to include in anything beyond "hey character is x now"
On the one hand, it shouldn't HAVE to be something that the comic has to keep incessantly reminding of us, but on the other hand, it should at least matter.
I keep thinking back to, say, Renee Montoya a few iterations back, and how her coming out led eventually to losing her job at the GCPD and her connection with her family, and how it never felt like a minor useless detail.
Renee Montoya was a heterosexual character who actively sought out men before a bisexual (Rocha) got his hands on her to live out his lesbian fantasy.
>villain is quite clearly doing drag
>woke internet flips its shit anyways
Dagger Type was unironically too ahead of his time.
>His sexuality has damn near nothing to do with the writing.
The book is about him moving to the gay neighborhood of town and has a subplot about locals not wanting to hire any of the LGBT from the neighborhood because of the murders going on.
What book is this?
Tim Drake: Robin
There is no bi, bi is a gay guy who occasionally bangs a lady
And for females it's a lesbian who occasionally hooks up with a gentleman? Why is it so unfathomable that an individual can be attracted to both sexes? Sure, if they are monogamous they will either be in a same or opposite sex relationship. But they still have an attraction to both, a heterosexual isn't immediately labeled as asexual if they are single, are they? Of course not they are still heterosexual.
In the wise words of an anon from a while back, "you can frick a million pussies, but suck one wiener and you're a gay for life"
Far from wise, more like.
>Tim stop sucking wiener and start raping The Joker
>Meanwhile his ex-girlfriend is getting RICED
This here's the real crime, that it's Tim and not Steph and Cass.
>boyfriend dumps you for a twink
>immediately hook up with a rich Asian athlete
All things considered Steph didn't do bad at all.
This motherfricker gets it!
better than the option Rosenberg wanted
>Rosenberg allows Steph to give a friendly pep talk to a male character who isn't Tim
>TimSteph gays on suicide watch
Are they actually using the gotham academy kids?
Yes
What books are they in? Is it all of them or just like maps and her brother?
It's not that much of a surprise, the writer is Becky Cloonan, the same one as the one who did Gotham Academy.
Batgirls, I believe.
I can only assume the mizoguchi’s are trying to parasite their way into the Wayne estate.
By going after Stephanie? That's stupid.
That's right, if anything Maps should be hounding Damian for that Wayne inheritance.
I mean going after Damian isn't a great idea either, you know how many chicks are after him.
>Steph, unable to have Tim or Cass, splits the difference by trying to hook up with Asian Tim
even funnier considering that apparently back in the day some fans thought Tim was Asian. steph clearly has a type.
I want to be his top
gay
>Steph, I'm not gay. I just really love wieners inside me. Oh don't feel bad, its like we're on the same team!
As a bisexual man, I have never felt so empowered. Thank you Fitzmartin!
I want gay porn of them so bad
He's still the most forgettable robin.
Tim got fricked by Damian and Jason and Dan Didio and Judd Winnick and Grant Morrison.
>that terrible realization that Tim has shown more romantic love to Bernard than Steph in their history together
Blame Dixon for making Tim an eunuch.
What do you mean it's been all tell, no show. In fact for the most part Bernard has been more or less a background character. The only big thing that happened recently was that he got kidnapped again by Moriarty.
>What do you mean it's been all tell, no show
With how things are going, there will literally be more official material of Tim loving Bernard than there will be of Tim with Steph in the comics regardless of how much it matters.
>Bernard has been more or less a background character.
>if Steph and Tim ever get back together (they won't) and kiss, she'll be kissing the lips that were on Bernard's wiener
He won.
>the tumblrest nose
Timbros, how you holding up?
not so good
Don't mean to rain on your parade. Even though now has been a low point in terms of Tim's characterization. Remember things can always get worse, I know that's a bit much to say. But life finds a way.
This is not going to get better. Very rarely do things get better in comics. You can only pray that someone else less terrible than the current writer can get picked up, a long and tenuous that could take months or even years to happen.
This isn't a a situation where you can pick yourself up and fight the good fight another day.
>This is not going to get better. Very rarely do things get better in comics.
Like I said it could always get worse, and if it is a "losing battle". Why not move on to something else? As you said things rarely improve.
When is the special where dies from AIDS?
I just gave up on cuckmics all together
It's just utterly soulless leftist social engineering at this point
Nothing these degens can publish interests me any longer, they've raped all merit and soul in it to death, frick them.
I want comics to burn down so bad.
Same
Absolute state of Amerimutt entertainment 2023
Calm down Mahmood.
Amen brother.
Frick comics, havent read trash from the major publishers since years. All propaganda.
He is dead to me.
didn't he get corrective raped?
He was always the Poochie Robin. The meltdowns over him being outed as a homosexual are the most entertainment he has ever provided.
Funny in retrospective.
Wow they ruined Bernard with this retcon. He looked like the kind of guy who could get any girl he wanted and now he looks somewhere along the lines of underage twink and femboy
Should've been him and Conner.
Please don't drag Conner into Tim's homosexualry.
Most fans that enjoyed this development are tired of Bernard and the lack of depth in their relationship. Plus they have been baiting TimKon all the while as seen here in this panel in the Tim Drake Special where they were holding hands. And they all but "confirmed" Tim's one-sided crush on Conner after he died in the Dark Crisis: Young Justice mini. Whether it will come into fruition is highly unlikely due to Jon being out.
It's not going to happen because sooner or later they're going to get called out for making everyone gay. We already have a gay superman/boy, two would be overdoing it.
As I said previously it will more than likely if won't ever happen. Because of Jon Kent being out as bi too. But it won't stop them from teasing a possibility to fans that would prefer it.
Anon at that point you’re not satisfied with the ruination of one character and want to ruin another just to get your pairing. You’re not a fan at that point, just a fujoushi
Who said I was apart of this? I was only talking about what's said online?
Tim has the most boring personalities out of all of the Robins, him being gay at least has given him something interesting to do.
Do you find Tim's current book interesting?
I find most Tim solo stuff boring but I thought Sum Our Parts storyline was cute.
Ehhhh, it was mostly just Tim dicking around and suddenly acting like he was super close to Bernard.
does HE get to rape the joker?
asking for a friend
Do you guys think Babs would be cool enough to let Dick pity frick Steph to cheer her up?
No but Starfire did say that Dick should frick Raven when she was raping him in his sleep. One more reason why Dick chose the wrong redhead.
I wouldn't, what if Steph IS the problem? What if she's so fricking bad that she turned Tim gay? I wouldn't want that to happen to Dick.
Grayson really, really teased it.
Midnighter was testing the waters
Take it easy, and besides many people see Dick as bi anyway. He's been plastered on material for DC Pride twice over. That and Midnighter did have a thing for his looks, more specifically his bottom.
>Take it easy, and besides many people see Dick as bi anyway.
They don't, they know he isn't gay because of his pairing with Batgirl/Starfire.
They know he isn't gay but that won't stop them from teasing any possibility of "queerness" so to speak. At least when it comes to teasing for marketing. Remember when writers said after Tim's coming out that they always thought of him as bi beforehand?
>Remember when writers said after Tim's coming out that they always thought of him as bi beforehand?
That was because Tim was always an effeminate boy, like most bisexual men.
As if they haven't associated Dick's physical traits much the same?
>Tim was always an effeminate boy, like most bisexual men.
Know that firsthand?
Anon, you're just posting pride covers. Dick isn't gay like Tim.
>Remember when writers said after Tim's coming out that they always thought of him as bi beforehand?
>That issue of Titans where Johns visually compares Mallah and Brain to Tim and Conner
Once upon a time Tim Drake had a solo ongoing that lasted nearly 200 issues. It lasted over 200 issues if you count his transition into being Red Robin as a continuation of the series.
Instead of fricking Steph's hot wet vegana he puts his penis in men's buttholes. LOL, lmao
Will movie Tim be an orphan or will they let Jack Drake exist?
His younger step mom still exists. They should use Dana.
Dana was killed when Bludhaven was destroyed. This is apparently still canon despite a distinctly unexploded Bludhaven being the setting for the current Nightwing run.
No, she’s alive. It’s like you said. Bludhaven never blew up now. Others like Stallion have shown up.
Dick will probably be like Bruce’s younger brother in the movie so they’ll probably have Tim be his adoptive son for the sake of giving him a niche.
>movie Tim
heh yeah thats not happening. Its gonna be Dick, Jason, Babs,and damian.
Reminder that Steph and Cass are officially in a non sexual bisexual romantic relationship according to the writers.
> non sexual bisexual romantic relationship
Wtf is this even supposed to mean?
I hate the degenerate west and their moronic culture so much.
They’re bisexual who are in love with each other but haven’t had sex yet.
This is moronic, just say that they are not ready for having sex yet
Nah, people have already called them out saying "yes but no."
Lesbian bed death, but with more attention whoring.
gay
Only the most moronic of the morons didn't get gay vibes from Tim.
Like holy shit how fricking clueless do you have to be?
If you didn't think Tim could have been in the closet, you are 100% an incel.
As someone bisexual enough to have had sex with another guy, but really regret what it felt like the next day, I fricking hate this comic. The reality isn't that you get a dick up your ass and then suddenly want to run out into public proclaiming your deep emotional love for someone else of the same sex and how your entire identity has changed.
My reality? The night we fricked was fun, it felt good. He got weird at the end and I left in an Uber. I woke up with a throbbing butthole, a shit with blood, and had to spend the day with family, where I started thinking to myself that I couldn't completely tell if he used a condom the whole time. Texting him, he insisted he was clean but didn't clarify on the condom. I spent the next couple of days in a panic trying to get to the doctor for HIV medication, which I took every day for a month, and cost my insurance over $1,000. I had to test twice over the year to make sure I was clean, and sweat over it every fricking second. Enough to not want to do it again.
My reward for my night of up the butt pleasure? I get called a straight guy who isn't supportive enough of gays or bisexuals by people who are clearly just virtue signaling.
Sometimes I want to shake things up by revealing I'm actually bi and had a bad experience, just to see how quickly all of the people around me would go "ew ur gay now" instead of actually supporting me like they do on Twitter/Reddit/whatever.
Tim Drake was one of my favorite Robins. Flamboyant permagay Drake isn't.
>homie got a HIV scare
And people have the audacity to attack women when they turn down bisexual men.
I didn't really, the guy didn't have HIV. It was protected sex, but it was still a panic moment because it's more prevalent with anal sex with dudes.
Having sex with anyone can basically be an HIV/hepatitis/insert terrible STD here thing. My mom's best friend got Hep C from sharing a cocaine straw, and her guy got it from sex with another woman. Wasn't really the point of the story.
Not that anon you replied to. That experience sounds terrifying either way, sorry to hear that. And I apologize if I am coming off as naive.
No worries, thanks! I actually really appreciate it. I only had one friend to fall back on that could tell me what to do next without ruining my personal life. Just venting about it anywhere is helpful. Cinemaphile is love, still.
I actually find it super ironic that a character wearing a mask, unwilling to share their true identity, happens to be the front facing picture of gay or bisexuality on a comic cover.
Yeah it is kind of ironic, I hate to keep you. But what do you think of the overall discourse surrounding the representation of bisexual characters? Be it in comic, cartoons, etc. In my eyes I can get were many are coming from, like in Tim Drake's case, but I always hear this argument tossed around that bi characters are simply gay. Or if they are in a relationship with the opposite sex it's erasure.
No worries about keeping me, I wish I could actually have this conversation with friends or even in more mainstream internet places.
>But what do you think of the overall discourse surrounding the representation of bisexual characters?
Bi erasure is completely a fricking thing. I spent a lot of time with a group of lesbians/bi women in my early 20s, and being with a bi woman, they felt like I was stealing one of their own.
>Be it in comic, cartoons, etc. In my eyes I can get were many are coming from, like in Tim Drake's case, but I always hear this argument tossed around that bi characters are simply gay.
That's exactly it. The argument is that they're repressing something important, but it's so fricking complex. I might be right, I might be wrong, but there's this flexible masculine or feminine dynamic that could be better phrased as dominant or submissive... but it's not cut and dry.
I think so many people are so naturally dialed into their sexual roles that breaking them doesn't make sense. And I don't mean that to say that they *should*. It just doesn't register.
I'm gonna continue with another reply so I don't hit character count.
Bisexuality pisses people off. It's kinda like opening up an entire extra door to cheating. I think it's based in some insecurity that you might not be able to provide what they really want sexually.
>Or if they are in a relationship with the opposite sex it's erasure.
I'd say erasure actually works the other way around. Bisexual people are the ones who can't possibly like the opposite sex, from those who are gay. It's painful to them.
When I had sex with that guy, he asked me in bed if he'd turned me, and he got frustrated when I said no. I dunno. I think people wanna feel like their dick or pussy is so good that you're stuck with them.
Bisexually? Probably not. And I'd imagine that's what causes outrage.
Is the bi-cycle real?
Haha the best I could do was google that. Do you mean that we're more attracted to women at a certain time and men at another time? At best, maybe so. I mostly feel like I overlapped being so into women at some point that I wanted to see what it was like to be one. I got hit on in my teens a lot by other dudes.
> I might be right, I might be wrong, but there's this flexible masculine or feminine dynamic that could be better phrased as dominant or submissive... but it's not cut and dry.
I wonder if it is due to a lack of variability in terms of characterization on that front. I often hear people say with male bi characters they are more feminine or flamboyant. Not to say there shouldn't be characters like that, it would be nice to see them expand in terms of archetypes.
>I think it's based in some insecurity that you might not be able to provide what they really want sexually.
I guess that's likely, but for me I can still not fathom that. If I were in a steady monogamous relationship then they are already satisfying me whether or not they are either male or female, I would rather that than pursue pleasure with members of both sexes.
Thank you for your responses. It is refreshing to get some proper dialogue on this matter.
>I often hear people say with male bi characters they are more feminine or flamboyant. Not to say there shouldn't be characters like that, it would be nice to see them expand in terms of archetypes.
I doubt anyone would view me as feminine or flamboyant unless they really put me under a microscope, or got unfettered access to my house. I like some girly colors, and I have a lot of feminine comic things around my house, but you'd probably consider me a coomer instead of someone who wants to be feminine or hook up with men.
As far as I work in bisexuality, I don't want to top any normal guy, and I honestly don't walk down the street thinking "wow, I'd like that guy to knock me down and frick me right here." There's a very weird line in my bisexuality where if I'm going to take it (like the one time I did), he has to be really fundamentally attractive, and if I'm going to top (which I haven't, but have come close to), they have to be really effeminate.
At the end of the day, I truly prefer a monogamous heterosexual thing with women.
>If I were in a steady monogamous relationship then they are already satisfying me whether or not they are either male or female, I would rather that than pursue pleasure with members of both sexes.
Me too. I'm fully into monogamy, I don't want to be with another guy, but I'm open to two women with me, which I've done.
I'm not really polyamorous, I've just had sex with another dude once, and probably never again.
>I think it's based in some insecurity that you might not be able to provide what they really want sexually.
Steph confirmed for being such an awful partner that Tim jumped ass first onto Bernard’s lap.
People don't have to date anyone, to assume that all bisexual men have HIV is kind of ridiculous. Why not be wary of any partner you get into a relationship with be them homo, hetero, or bi. Veneral diseases don't discriminate. Everyone should be making sure that they are practicing safe activity and get checked up often. As well as making sure they are in a relationship with one they can absolutely trust, are there inevitably those who just wish for pleasure, absolutely but the problem does not lie at only one source.
>Why not be wary of any partner you get into a relationship with be them homo, hetero, or bi.
Because statistically speaking, you're more likely to get HIV from a homosexual/bi male than you will get it via contaminated blood or milk. The CDC literally lists them before women and children because of higher risks associated with their life styles.
https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/index.html
Also do you guys remember the time Jim Starlin wanted to kill off Jason Todd with AIDS in the mid 80s? True story.
Nonetheless I think caution is warranted in any relationship even if the risk is statistically lower. But to answer your question, yes I do remember hearing about that. If I remember correctly it didn't happen based on the vote or something like that.
>If I remember correctly it didn't happen based on the vote or something like that.
Before they had the phoneline vote, they had a vote within DC on who would be the character to die of AIDS because they were planning on doing an HIV awareness pamphlet or comics, and Jim Starlin wanted to stuff the ballet with Jason's name, only to find out that he got beaten the punch by everyone else who stuffed it with Jimmy Olsen.
>Because statistically speaking, you're more likely to get HIV from a homosexual/bi male than you will get it via contaminated blood or milk.
I'm the guy that had the dicey gay experience, but I read this in Christopher Reeves' voice. Safest way to travel, and all.
>Veneral diseases don't discriminate.
In fact, they do, because gays are so promiscuous. The average gay has over 100 partners, has engaged in coprophagia, and any attempt to police the community's health is met with cries of bigotry so strong you'd never believe they were all pro-mask. Anyone who might potentially have had sex with a gay man should instantly be regarded as a health risk.
nobody cares about your fanfics
He's not wrong, the first gays to die where the ones who had who had really, REALLY fricked up lifestyles because their immune systems were more compromised than the rest of the population.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4082977/
When is Tim Drake going to talk about this in his comic?
>unrelated straw man rightoid bullshit
You have a board you need to frick off back to, tourist scum.
>the National Library of Medicine is /misc/
Lel
>more straw man garbage
We can all read, anon. Responding to a post with something that is not relevant to the post's point does not help your position.
Nice trips, but what we can learn from this is that Tim Drake is the Robin most likely to get HIV.
nobody cares, frick off with your disingenuous bullshit you pathetic homosexual
By that logic wouldn't Constantine be the most likely? Tim has a monogamous relationship. And he was wary of the risks of engagement in his prior relationships. Yet despite all that people kept joking he was a virgin too scared to take the next step.
>By that logic wouldn't Constantine be the most likely?
John isn't a Robin.
>And he was wary of the risks of engagement in his prior relationships.
This was before the gay sex.
>logic
He's just having his meltdown over the gays on the wrong board for the 300th time. Help him get his ban and ignore.
I am aware, just wanted to see what would happen. But thanks for stepping in anyway.
>NOOOOOOO SOMEONE IS GOING AGAINST THE NARRATIVE MODS MODS MODS
Meltdown indeed, lmao
>i don't like the way i'm alleging he's depicted despite that being a blatant lie
uh huh
iceman bobby drake
Cinemaphile always has a weird freak out over bisexuals
Probably because bisexuality in cartoons come off as total memes with the Owl House being a prime example.
I guess you could say the same with the rest of this website as well.
I can't remember a time when bisexuality was used as a good thing in comics or cartoons as of recent, maybe 1992?
As long as he's attractive, I approve. When he's not, I don't care.
Same thing with Anole in X-men.
How come gay characters never wear diapers on media nor have to deal with a prolapsed anus?
Both are rare without extreme situations.
Because prolapses are not fun. They are kind of hot though.
Character ruined for no reason.
I don't really care that he's gay, but I do wish he was a top. He's such a fricking homosexual now. Quit drawing him with that face. You know the face I mean.
What's Tim doing right now in comics anyway?
Asking where is Bernard whenever Bernard is off panel.
He's gay?
Yeah.
Bi
Making him bi was the final nail in the coffin
There no way it goes past 12 issues
Damian solo book was 18 issues
he's been a floundering character since new 52 started. Even before then they sort of destroyed his niche but he was still an ok character for the most part. The gay thing was just a cheap way to create buzz and doesn't really do anything for the character. Hell in story it was actually pretty shitty and had horrible execution. His current book is complete trash from just about every angle and if you told me they were trying their best to bury him as a character I would believe it since the alternative is hilarious incompetence. Just toss him onto the ever growing pile of decent characters that got turned to shit
>hilarious incompetence
Given Fitzmartin's social media posts, it's exactly that. It's been pretty obvious for awhile that no one at DC has any ideas for either Tim or Damian and they've been throwing shit to see what sticks. The issue with making Tim gay (or any other character really) is that they don't want writers to actually write about being coming out. There is no introspection or soul-searching, no coming to terms with emotionally and figuring out how to move forward. Just look at how writers aren't even on the same page as to how Tim and Steph are dealing with it. Fitzmartin has Tim introducing Steph to Bernard (despite them going to highschool together) and Steph being happy and excited about it, while Batgirls and Urban Legends has Tim ghosting Steph for months before showing up with someone new and still not wanting to deal with it. If you want something interesting to write about with Tim being gay, how about actually writing an emotional narrative about what it means to come out when you have an opposite sex partner that you genuinely love. But lets be real, they just want asspats and marketing fodder.
Steph and Bernard didn't go to high school together, Bernard and Tim did (with Darla), and that also doesn't conflict with him ignoring her for months. I don't think any other book suggests he did otherwise.
But yes, it's a problem that these stories of coming out involve virtually no real coming out. Tim has a tiny amount of personal introspection, but like so much else with him it's thoroughly desexualized to the point that it could be a crisis about anything. Realistically, he should be directly examining his sexual/romantic interests and determining that he likes things in addition to what Steph offers. He sort of says that in that issue, but there's no journey!
With Jon it's even worse. He's just instantly dating a terrible guy with no thought given. It doesn't make his sexuality implausible, just undeveloped.
It still conflicts because Tim flat out ghosted her and Steph is not okay with it as per Batgirls. We're talking about someone who suddenly cut his gf out of his life with zero explanation only to show back up with someone else on his arm. At best you could say that Steph was just pretending to be happy for Tim so she wouldn't come off as the bad guy but that'd still be out of character for Steph.
I'd swap Rossmo and Moore. Granted, Rossmo's art looks more like Tim and Bernard are aliens wearing human suits and them having sex would involve removing skin to deploy genitals unheard of on Earth. Seriously, what the frick is up with his art on the book? Is it just a rushed fill-in job or something? His prior work was miles better.
>Rossmo
>is a Canadian
I knew something was seriously wrong with his dude.
I think the issue with Rossmo's take is that he has Bernard doing too much of what looks like literal mincing and also put him in weird shorts he has no business being in.
On the other point, I meant it didn't factually conflict. There wasn't another comic saying they'd actually been chatting over the several months between breaking up and him deciding to date Bernard. The real problem, of course, is that the narrative has so little page space and therefore is so hypercompressed Steph doesn't have a chance to process any of it, just like Tim doesn't have a chance to process himself meaningfully. Instead they skip right to the conclusion, which makes sense as the conclusion of an emotional journey but isn't really earned.
Also Bernard should not have been locked in a restaurant waiting for them to hash their shit out in what is supposed to be a pride issue.
It's like Rossmo was told Tim is now gay and has a boyfriend and the only thing he could think of to do with that information is to have characters mince while wearing tiny shorts. It's like something you'd expect out of a parody. You're right, there really isn't a narrative because they cut out damn near everything, and what rump of a conclusion we get is so milquetoast and safe that they might as well have not bothered bringing it up in the first place. Even something like Steph saying she's angry and upset but she's managing or Tim being unable to shake feeling like a shitheel in his quiet moments would go a long way to making it feel real. When Ms. Marvel had Zoe dump Josh because she finally came out of the closet it really pissed me off because the conversation was framed as Zoe being unhappy in the closet was an excuse for treating Josh like shit and how he should be happy for her. It just left me feeling cold because we got the usual "I'm so happy for you" stuff and all I could think was poor Josh for having to put up with a c**t of a gf who now acts like being miserable in the closet gives her a pass. And cold is all I'm feeling about this. Made worse by not actually having been given a reason to care about the new Bernard (not that I really cared that much for the old one but at least he had a personality). I've seen joke posts in Batgirls threads with a better handle on how to deal with Tim and Steph than the actual comic.
And Bernard having to wait alone as his new bf hashes out a bunch of drama with his ex would have been way too real for the inoffensive mush the out of context panel crowd on Twitter wants, which is why that Pride story isn't about Bernard at all.
>not depicted: bernard wolfs down three orders of fries and a jumbo shake as he tries not to act like he's freaking the frick out because his boyfriend is having a moment with his ex in front of the restaurant
It's the shorts that really ruin it. An in-shape gay guy in a baseball tee? Sure, no problem. Little boy shorts? What?
The 'former love interest is thrilled you told them why it's over and it's not their fault' is of course a classic fantasy of coming out stories, but it's also deeply boring and, even in the best of circumstances, not quite what happens. So much wasted potential.
>Steph, I know it's rough and you're hurting, but I just want you to know that it's not your fault; it was never anything you did.
>Frick you, Tim, all I'm hearing is "Where's your goddamn penis, Steph? How can I date someone without a penis?" You were the one who said no to the strapon!
I know the current style is for above the knee on guy's shorts, but it makes him look like he doesn't know how to dress himself.
It's a classic fantasy of coming out stories, but it also doesn't work as wish fulfillment because it's never given any room to emotionally connect and it's so commonplace that you've seen it all before.
See, now these feel like reasonable complaints about stuff like this. I get that people WANT it to be this easy in the real world, that you decide one day that you're bi and you get a boy/girlfriend and everyone's happy for you, but that's not realistic, and while people should be able to get a happy ending, it's never going to come without SOME difficulty. Show someone like Steph having trouble with it but eventually working past it, show Tim having doubts and overcoming them, show how we GOT here. This is all the catharsis with none of the effort.
>Rossmo's art looks more like Tim and Bernard are aliens wearing human suits and them having sex would involve removing skin to deploy genitals unheard of on Earth
Funny that you mention this, because Rossmo did draw a sex scene between Martian Manhunter and his wife once.
>Steph and Bernard didn't go to high school together, Bernard and Tim did
Yeah, Tim only mentioned Bernard to her, but she never met him from what I remember.
Anon might be confused for Tim's OTHER blonde best friend from Tim's solo, Ives, who did go to school with Steph. Ives pretty much disappeared in favor of Bernard for a bit. There's like one other blonde friend Tim has in his boarding school, too.
Nu52 Tim (and the Titans) was the biggest fricking disaster. Fricking hell, that book was shit.
The Red Robin book wasn't the biggest success, but it was far better than reverting to Robin.
Yet another reason for why the DC Comic offices will be shuttered and the IP farmed to actual talent and people who love the characters.
Gail Simone is out on her generously wide ass
Tom King
The list goes on.
So Stephanie used to peg Timm right?
>Tim starts dating guys because for once in his life he wants to be the one fricking ass
>Tim
>not the one getting fricked
He just wanted the real deal.
More like she didn’t peg him enough. Tim hates being on top
Bruh, there is no way that Bernard tops. I really hate how people act like Tim is the blushing uWu softboi when he's incredibly driven and aggressive. I get that everyone is a mincing, effeminate twink in the book but holy shit does it piss me off. [spoiler]Plus we all know that Damian is the superbrat bottom bawd of the Batfamily.[/spoiler]
90s Tim could possibly be a top. After Johns, no he’s a bottom
Tim is the meek top to Kon's aggressive powerbottoming.
Johns wasn't the one that made Tim gay.
but he made his relationship with Kon incredibly gay
>90s Tim could possibly be a top.
Based, reminder that Steph wasn't even interested in Tim romantically until he kissed her first out of nowhere after she saved him from a deathtrap. Plus him hooking up with Jubilee. People can cite him turning down Ariana, but she went full crazy by then.
When you start comparing Tim's relationship with Kon to Monsieur Mallah and the Brain, it gets very suspect. Tim and Kon were friends before Johns, but they never felt like soulmates or anything. Bart felt more like Kon's best friend with Tim as sort of the buzzkill they like.
It totally depends on the artist.
Rossmo? Tim Tops. Moore? Bernard tops. Ortega is vers.
I wish he was my bf.
t. Conner
I can't believe that the wrong Superboy is gay, timkonsisters.
>remember what they took from you
It hurts
All the while Fitzmartin has been teasing it.
I miss timkon now.
We can't have nice things
>Tim had two love interests at one point
>a sweet and innocent girl named Secret, she's younger than him and has a puppylike crush on him and literally can't be physical with him
>a feisty girl who puts out named Spoiler, she's older than him, actually dating him and takes more initiative being physical with him
This was a fun angle, too bad they didn't do much with it
Secret the ghost girl? Almost forgot about her, she was cute! What’s going on with her these days anyhow?
So apparently she hasn’t had a single appearance since 2001, not even a cameo! Online info on her is very scarce though so there’s a very good chance the four sources I checked are missing something. But considering they all appear to agree on that means if she did have any appearances they were very minimal.
Though interestingly she apparently had her first appearance in over 20 years last month in a cameo in New Golden Age.
Well if she hasn't shown up since 2001 then she's fallen into a universe hole with all the crises and resets.
Wait a minute, that's why they had those names?
Nah it's just Peter David being clever. Secrets and Spoilers are natural enemies, after all.
This makes me sad as a Post-Crisis DC kid who grew up with him as Robin and Jason dead
Like can't they just make the gay one Tom Drake from Earth-whatever
Tim coming out was super boring because there was no conflict, there was tension leading up to it, no inner turmoil of him trying to make sense of who he is and what it means to be bisexual. They just give him a boyfriend and everyone accepts it and that's that.
I think it's fine that everyone accepts it (even Steph, eventually), but it's definitely a missed opportunity. He should have been at least a little bit freaked out that he hadn't already realized something about himself because he never bothered to think about it. And admitted to himself that he always found his older brothers hot.
Is it the gay neighborhood? It just seems like eccentric lower class people in a big city. It's a pretty standard trope.
How Steph handled it was some of the worst, most unrealistic shit I've ever seen. This chick who's "madly in love with you" gets ghosted and then dumped for a new gay lover but just shrugs it off? It's even more than a shrug off; she's actually "happy" and supports that shit with few complaints. That whole dumbass situation could have been an entertaining arc but they just skipped all over it and went "here's how things are now, everybody loves it, deal with it"
I was never personally of the opinion that their relationship was super intense, one for the ages etc, and they are supposed to be good friends regardless, so it doesn't competely bother me that she gets over it in time, but otherwise yes, it's something DC definitely should have devoted some pages to, if for no other reason than that they give plenty of heterosexual characters panel space for relationship drama. Consider how many volumes could be filled just with Dick's girlfriends. This was low-hanging fruit, so to speak, and they ignored it because for some reason they couldn't bring themselves to give a fairly major character enough room to have a natural depiction of significant life events.
>I was never personally of the opinion that their relationship was super intense, one for the ages etc, and they are supposed to be good friends regardless, so it doesn't competely bother me that she gets over it in time
Anon, they're partners in the war against crime, they know each better than their parents do, and them some because of their romantic past.
Yes, I don't disagree. I just always found their romance to be rather low key. It wasn't unbelievable, it just didn't have the intensity of a lot of other comic book romances, so it doesn't outrage me that Steph didn't fly off the handle and turn into a psychopath over it. The fact that they do know each other so well makes me think her real issue should be about him disappearing for too long, because they should be long-term friends regardless of their other status.
>This chick who's "madly in love with you" gets ghosted and then dumped for a new gay lover but just shrugs it off? It's even more than a shrug off; she's actually "happy" and supports that shit with few complaints.
I hate to play devil's advocate (not as much as I hate this whole gay/bi Tim thing), but it's not like Steph had much of an option, what else could she have done or said?
>Frick you Tim Drake, you're a horrible person and I hope you get AIDS!
Tim isn't just the guy who said he loved her more than anything before ghosting her and hooking up with some guy he went to high school, he's also a long time friend, someone she truly loves, and technically a co-worker, so I don't think it's too out of the question to imagine Steph is simply swallowing her pride and anger for everyone's sake, the last thing the Bat-Familys needs is more drama, and Tim, who just came out as bisexual, needs the support of his loved ones, so what she says and does matters a lot to Tim.
That said, I don't think they meant for this to be the case, and that we are meant to simply take what happened at face value, without thinking more about how Steph might actually feel about this whole situation, if you ask me, this whole thing was just fricked from the beginning.
I think the problem is a couple things. Steph, love her or hate her, is a character who's always worn her emotions on her sleeve. Its the reason she's both loved, and hated by swaths of fans- the fact that she tends to lash out and be headstrong. I don't think she'd make a scene either, but I don't think she'd be entirely happy. She's a character constantly plagued by self doubt and feelings of inadequacy.
I think Steph wouldn't necessarily be hurt by Tim breaking up with her, as much as she'd feel upset that the person she's spent so much time with and confided with didn't trust her enough to be honest with her. They were a couple, but the break up has entirely been about him The only follow up we get from her is being happy for Tim and not being ready for romance yet. It all feels very shallow, and it doesn't help that Batgirls doesn't give much insight to her internal thoughts which always used to be a big part of her character.
It's entirely possible to remain professional, even though in Tim and Steph's case their superhero and social lives are a near complete overlap, while working with an ex, and in this case Steph and Tim aren't even based out of the same neighborhoods. It's not on the part of the dumpee to swallow their feelings and be the bigger person either. Steph could have torn into Tim for what he did with perfect justification, and if the rest of the Batfamily had issues with the intergroup drama she could have told them to frick off and take their complaints to Tim with the same justification. They're not going to cut Tim out of their lives or become hostile to him for getting a bf. The issue people have is that Steph's course of action not only reads as out of character but that it also lacks verisimilitude. No matter how supportive a person is they're going to take umbrage at their significant other dropping them for someone else.
Or, as other anon pointed out, not being honest. That is at least how it would appear to her (we would know that's only stuff he figured out afterward, so it had nothing to do with her), so it would be the organic opportunity for them to have things out and him to explain the situation properly and apologize for being an butthole.
>Is it the gay neighborhood? It just seems like eccentric lower class people in a big city. It's a pretty standard trope.
Anon is exaggerating, but the book does have more LGBTQ people than usual, even the detective Tim works with is gay, but I want to think that's less about the neighborhood itself, and more about the writer wanting to make Tim hang around these kind of people.
Similarly, there does seem to be a subplot about how some people in the neighborhood are having trouble keeping their jobs, this seems to be about the fact that they're from the Marina, but it could also be read as straight up homophobia, I swear the DCU isn't usually this bigoted.
That's one lesbian couple in a major boswash city. I'm not aware of anyone else there who's any king of lgbt, though I could be wrong, and the art sure doesn't make it any easier to tell.
Homophobia makes little sense in that context, but the fact that they're weirdos from a shitty weirdo neighborhood works regardless of their proclivities.
>That's one lesbian couple in a major boswash city.
I'm mainly talking about the supporting non-fodder and non-background characters, of course it's just one lesbian couple, but they appear multiple times and do more than the others mentioned there.
Tuna mostly sticks to the background for example.
>the art sure doesn't make it any easier to tell.
Same honestly, there's this one character who I thought maybe is trans? But it may have just been some very masculine woman.
>Homophobia makes little sense in that context, but the fact that they're weirdos from a shitty weirdo neighborhood works regardless of their proclivities.
See, that's what I thought, but the book also uses terms like "his kind" and "degenerates", so maybe the characters really are just homophobic.
I can vaguely recall the possibly trans character you're mentioning, so maybe it's another. Or maybe not! Who can tell?
To me it reads more like a class problem because of some other stuff about everyone hating the marina and wanting to replace it with, like, anything else. Could be homophobia too, but if so it's a bit muddled with general dislike of a place that frankly should be burnt down so they can put something nicer in its place. Usually gay neighborhoods are attractive places to be, and that's why they can have trouble surviving; gentrifying yuppies and the like move in because they heard about the nice trendy neighborhood with affordable prices, and then rates skyrocket and the gays go somewhere less full of squares.
>To me it reads more like a class problem because of some other stuff about everyone hating the marina and wanting to replace it with, like, anything else. Could be homophobia too
To me it reads like both, specially with how much emphasis it's been put in Tim's love for Bernard, and how they said everyone there is some kind of an outcast, I don't think it's too out of the question to imagine they're disliked for multiple reasons.
It's possible. The marina itself is just a weird setting. I think the book notes that it's unusual that such an impoverished place is occupying waterfront land in a major city. That's separate from whoever might be living in it, and if anything it's the least believable feature unless it's planned to be some kind of wacky conspiracy we won't find out about becuse this shit is super cancelled.
Maybe they'll realize nobody wants to read a bat story where everyone's hideous.
>becuse this shit is super cancelled.
They cancelled it already?
No, but it's inevitable. Fujos are staying away in droves, and they were needed to prop up sales. I will be mildly surprised if it makes it to as many issues as Jon's book and a lot more surprised if it gets a relaunch like Jon.
>Fujos are staying away in droves
Those people don't even read comics. In fact those are the very people Gail Simone shat on for being fake homies.
>those are the very people Gail Simone shat on
Are you serious? Is it quoted somewhere?
Funny enough, it was on her tumblr blog.
https://gailsimone.tumblr.com/post/115217768935/tumblr-fandom
>shat on
>links to a post where she politely asks if this is a real thing and points out the supposed hardcore obviously don't read comics either, which we all know to be true because we have been to Cinemaphile
Your point?
The point is your claim is invalid because your evidence is plainly not what you claimed. If you have another post wher she actually says that, by all means link away.
My claim is validated by the fact that nobody actually likes Jon or Tim's romances. If they did, then the supposed legion of fujos would buy it, but they don't those people just stick to their fanfiction and inner circles. Also
>fujos
That's a term that should be reserved for Japanese shit. Its cringe seeing that term applied to capeshit.
>my claim is validated by headcanons
If you don't like fujo (which I agree with), we can always call them slash fen like the old days. In general, I've noticed far less opposition to Bernard than to Jay. It's not an enthusiastic embrace, which is completely understandable given the weak material and Rossmo ruining everything, but there's not much opposition to it in the way loads of people don't like the Asian caricature.
Nobody who's interested in a story about cute boys is going to pay for a story about ugly boys where one of the ugly boys barely shows up for six months.
Regardless, this has nothing to do with your claim that fujos don't read comics. In my experience, a fair number of the ones who like cpaeshit absolutely do. Back in the day, they'd tell me about their pull boxes. Nowadays, of course, why would a girl put up with going to a physical store?
>hurr no one reads comics unless angry shut-ins tell me i say so
Don't bother posting if you're going to spout brainless homosexualry.
I feel like the kind of fujos who like Tim are the kind that actually do buy comics and merch. Tim merch that's the twinkier Tim they like tends to go for big money. Its not like modern MCU fujos.
>But that's the thing. Bernard brings out the real me. Makes me feel like... there's so much more for me than I've settled for.
I know it's not the intention, but this really reads like they're downplaying Tim's relationship with Steph, implying he wasn't the "real him" with her, and that now that he has Bernard, he doesn't has to settle for her.
how and when did tim and steph break up anyway? was it off-panel?
Completely off panel and we don't know when or how. Tim and steph largely had sporadic appearances after the new Young Justice series ended except for things like Cass and Steph becoming Batgirls again. Then a few months after that they're broken up despite the YJ series ending with them together. All we know is that it seems Tim initiated it.
Would it be wrong to suggest DC is treating the Bendis take on YJ as something that didn't really happen except for the part where it brought Kon back?
Pretty much, even Batgirls is ignoring it with them treating Cluemaster as thought dead until the last few issues. They're also explaining his resurrection. Problem is, YJ just picks up the status quo Tynion left them on (having a roadtrip together) so its not just YJ being ignored, but a run that's still fairly popular. And Tim and Steph had basically spent the last 5 years joined at the hip.
I'm calling it; Tim is going to break up with Bernard later 2024 and try his luck with Steph only to realize she's happier with her new boyfriend.
That would be kind of funny.
>steph isn't interested
>tries to flirt with jon but jon is busy with his boyfriend Ash
>kon needs too much alcohol before he puts out
>gotham city, which still wants to frick him, starts leaving creepy voicemail
>2024
Too soon, Tim will maybe try to hook up with steph again in 15 years when they're both bisexual and there's no stigma against walking back the bisexuality and culturally there's less of a discussion one way or another. Bernard probably has another 4 years or so before they finally hook up Tim with another (male) hero.
>before they finally hook up Tim with another (male) hero.
>implying they wouldn't just give Bernard powers and access to a time machine
Nah, Fitzmartin is the only one that seems particularly attached to Bernard in the books. Titans and Gotham Knights bring him, too, bit that's more because he's an easy character to adapt since he's not tied by any rights issues.
A gay, male Batfam member is PRIME ASS. Titans editors are itching to pair him up with some gay teen hero. hooking him up with another gay male character will float them. Conversely, this might just save Bernard because bat editors can lock there characters down, but I just know writers are itching to use Tim with other guys now. Except Kon, they won't let people have him.
It's still absolutely mind-boggling that they managed to out the wrong combination of Superbats and STILL refused to immediately jettison their boyfriends and mash them together.
Tim and Jon turning gay was done separately, their respective editorials apparently didn't know about what the other one was doing.
And honestly? I for one am glad Tim and Jon became the token gays, I don't want Kon and Damian to be part of any of this bullshit.
I know it was separate processes and that's why they didn't have a joint coming out, but there's been more than enough time to realize it's stupid that they're both stuck with literal whos (at least Tim's existed beforehand and is kind of cute) instead of having corrective measures taken.
If it's any better, Tim and Jon are having a team up in a back-up for Batman.
>Tim and Jon are having a team up in a back-up for Batman
Someone hide the Crisco
I bet they won't even talk about their sexuality even though that's a case where it would be totally natural and expected.
How would it be brought up outside of discussing their relationships? I suppose that would work out naturally. But even then they are working together, I wouldn't be surprised if people complained about that occurring though. Seeing as they'd have other priorities.
There would be a natural urge to compare notes as two members of close families about the same age who just went through a similar slightly unusual personal experience. I don't think it should lead to a deep moral lesson or something, and it should obviously wait until there's down time, but it would be kind of weird not to bring it up at all when it's an obvious point of commonality for two characters who haven't really interacted much (or at all?) before.
Let's be honest, the only reason why Steph only reacted as she did is because if she did explode in Steph fashion, she would be seen as a biphobic skinhead nazi or some shit.
Steph is too beloved by the same people who like Tim with guys and has her own homosexual ship independent of him. She's essentially bulletproof. Everyone would be prepared to dine on their drama for months.
The problem is you really need to show the straight people in the audience that it's okay to have doubts and concerns and then walk that audience through them to show them they can still be okay if they're ever in the same situation. Set an example for the people who need it. I guess it'd be hard to work through all that in one issue, which you'd basically have to do to avoid that very issue you mention, but I think it's just as important to speak to those people as much as the gay/bi people you're trying to reach with this in the first place.
Here’s the thing… this is a cape comic. That shit doesn’t warrant page space in a cape comic. So maybe they should frick off with the sexuality shit all together
lol get real
Capeshit spends endless amounts of page space on relationshit.
No, Claremont X-men and batfam bait comics aren’t tantamount to all capeshit
Pretty sure plenty of other comics have lots and lots of time spent on relationships. Literally all you have to do to make any relationship drama look like bog standard capeshit is to have some other plotline going on at the same time so there's somebody to punch nearby.
Relationshit is literally how Marvel beat DC in the 1960s and kept them in a headlock ever since.
You know what? This shouldn't have been done in the main comics, this should have been done with a six issue Tim spinoff.
>You know what? This shouldn't have been done
Coulda stopped there
It wasn't done in the main comics. This took place over some backups in an escort title and an event anthology. Perhaps you didn't read it and have the impression that this was a much more elaborate process than it was?
>Perhaps you didn't read it and have the impression that this was a much more elaborate process than it was?
I read it once because a friend let me read it during a lunch break and that was a long ago.
Honestly, if Tim had done the exact same thing, but instead of Bernard, it was a girl, everyone would be rightfully calling him out for how much of a shitty person he is.
I'm fine with Tim being bi, but I hate how he's going to be plastered on the Pride issues with the trannies and parade freaks as if he was always one of them.
Not as bad as when they do it with Alan Scott if you ask me.
You know, I used to think it was Marvel who was terrible with the gay shit, but then I realized after looking back, that it was really DC.
This still genuinely pisses me off. There is no reason Alan should be made gay.
It was frankly disgusting that they did that considering how disrespectful it is and how contradictory it is to his past.
>Yep. I adore Captain America and his associates, but Rick Remender is a shitty writer who can’t even be bothered to check whether the term “homeschool” was used in the 1920′s (hint: it wasn’t). I will not buy the book until he’s off it, and even then I’m going to wait to see who the next writer is before putting it on my pull list.
heh