Sort of.
The Creator can not be all good if power can be exercised for evil purposes.
If evil beings can have power the an all good Creator would be powerless to stop them without rewriting all of Creation.
The failure to understand is the understanding of all good.
If you see evil as an end result, then you miss the purpose of Creation.
If you see evil as a process that must be used to refine good, than you can understand Creation and its full purpose.
Once you do that, you can see evil as merely a function of good and therefore the paradox resolves without issue.
Predeterminism is a false logical path. It fails all tests, save the simplest.
No, my theory states that God created people.
People, being neither fully good or evil, as was necessary. He created them for both purposes. Those that find within themselves the capability to be good, overcome evil, in themselves and around them, as is necessary.
Good can not grow and be refined in a perfect world, just as you can not cut and polish a gem without cracking the original stone.
No, those people who confine themselves to just be evil chose that path, of their own free will, every time.
They do it because it is easier and less painful than trying to be better. They would remain the uncut stone, as it hurts to cut away the parts that are crusted with detritus.
An all-knowing god creates people with full knowledge of every choice they will ever make before they make them, including all the evil choices. Judas is a perfect example of this. >"I will now create Judas" >Judas betrays Jesus >"NOOO THERE WAS NO WAY I COULD'VE SEEN THIS COMING BETTER CONDEMN HIM TO HELL"
So you're saying god didn't know which choice he'd make?
3 months ago
Anonymous
what a stupid question to ask. Did you have any other choice but to make a bad post? frickin moron
3 months ago
Anonymous
Well, maybe you can answer the other question. Did God know that Judas would betray Jesus or not?
3 months ago
Anonymous
He knew he could.
He knew exactly everything Judas could do in that situation.
He knew all possibilities and probabilities in that situation.
His knowledge of these did not predetermine anything, just as me knowing the possibilities/probabilites of it raining does not make it rain.
3 months ago
Anonymous
So god is not all-knowing but all-guessing? That's dumb.
I'm not a christgay and saying "Frick you" doesn't break any of the commandments. You know what breaks the commandments? Israel's genocide of the Palestinians and their deliberate murder of children. Want to talk about that?
I hate israelites more than you do, believe me
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I hate israelites more than you do, believe me
Oh of course, that's why you do their bidding.
3 months ago
Anonymous
There is no answer to that question. It's like asking "What does purple taste like?" Sure, you can come up with an answer but it's entirely meaningless. let's say I answered it anon, you'd just say "you cant know that" or call me a liar or whatever.
How about this, you tell me what color would express dignity to a gorilla and how you know that then we will go from there.
That gorilla question is equally meaningful and well thought out as your question
>If you see evil as a process that must be used to refine good, than you can understand Creation and its full purpose.
But then why not create refined good from the start? Why the rigmarole?
He did, but humans preferred to have knowledge of both good and evil instead of just good.
Now that we have passed the point of no return we complain that knowledge is just too tiresome and complex and beg God to return us to monke.
No one's forcing you to debate, you can just shrug your shoulders and say "God works in mysterious ways", which is sadly what all theodicy ultimately devolves to.
But if you insist on arguing at least try to make coherent arguments
3 months ago
Anonymous
Did god know or not? It's a simple question with a yes/no answer.
why do determinismgays always argue in bad faith and when offered answers they just scream "well how do you know??" or "uuh no this doesn't satisfy me"?
it was predetermined that you are just dense, looks like
3 months ago
Anonymous
But you didn't offer an answer at all
3 months ago
Anonymous
thanks for proving me right
3 months ago
Anonymous
>determinismgays
I’m one of the people arguing with you and I never labeled myself that. I don’t even know what that is. Just answer the question or say I don’t know.
Did god know or not? It's a simple question with a yes/no answer.
3 months ago
Anonymous
A. How could anybody know the answer to this
B. If a person did claim to know the answer, you'd just squeal "It would be impossible to know that! You're making it up"
C. Frick you, moron
3 months ago
Anonymous
A. It's not that complucated of a question
B. That's a baseless assumption you made
C. I don't think God would appreciate you breaking one of the ten commandments like that
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not a christgay and saying "Frick you" doesn't break any of the commandments. You know what breaks the commandments? Israel's genocide of the Palestinians and their deliberate murder of children. Want to talk about that?
3 months ago
Anonymous
A. See
A. Know that God is not like us. There is no limit to his knowledge, yet his knowledge has no influence on our choices. The only possibility left is that he knows ALL choices. Once you understand that, there is no conflict.
B. This is standard for all predeterminists. You are correct that they always argue in bad faith as it excuses their bad choices and renders them blameless for their evil ways.
C. Yes.
B. Pattern recognition is not baseless.
C. God would not care about the rules a bunch of deluded desert dwelling inbreds made up and claimed were his. Just as he would not care about the other poster pointing out that you are moronic. He would simply see what everyone involved would do. Would you continue to be moronic? Probabilities are high. Would you continue to be a tool? Probabilities are high. Would you learn a lesson? Probabilities are low.
3 months ago
Anonymous
A. Know that God is not like us. There is no limit to his knowledge, yet his knowledge has no influence on our choices. The only possibility left is that he knows ALL choices. Once you understand that, there is no conflict.
B. This is standard for all predeterminists. You are correct that they always argue in bad faith as it excuses their bad choices and renders them blameless for their evil ways.
C. Yes.
You can’t have it both ways, anon. God is either all powerful or he is all good. You’ve shown that he’s not all powerful with your comments if he’s letting his creations run away from him and unable to create a utopia here on earth (but can somehow do so in heaven without infringing on “free will”).
3 months ago
Anonymous
>determinismgays
I’m one of the people arguing with you and I never labeled myself that. I don’t even know what that is. Just answer the question or say I don’t know.
No. He didn't.
He created animals. Being without knowledge of good or evil, can not be good.
You have to know both to be able to choose one.
>If you see evil as a process that must be used to refine good, than you can understand Creation and its full purpose.
But then why not create refined good from the start? Why the rigmarole?
You can not. He can not. Nothing can create good without it knowing evil and overcoming it. You try and you get rebellions and The Fall.
Without the forging of a soul in the cauldron of free will you get weakness and the likelihood of a corruption to evil, usually through Pride, but Lust is another big one, as shown by the Watchers and the Nephilim.
At least if you believe that legend, which I don't.
What I do believe is that those legends were invented to show us the logical fallacies that certain lines of thought lead to, like your.
Truth is, just as you can not have only one side of a coin, you can not have good without evil. You must transcend evil to prove your goodness.
An all-knowing god creates people with full knowledge of every choice they will ever make before they make them, including all the evil choices. Judas is a perfect example of this. >"I will now create Judas" >Judas betrays Jesus >"NOOO THERE WAS NO WAY I COULD'VE SEEN THIS COMING BETTER CONDEMN HIM TO HELL"
Funny thing is, yes, most people know their choices and choose the easy path. That easy path is often evil. Yes, we know it. Deep down we always know it. We lie to ourselves to allow ourselves to take the evil path, but we know the truth when we stop and think.
As far as Hell, we are in it. We burn in ignorance, hate, fear and all the passions that lead us astray. We burn every day of our lives. Burning the edges of our soul over and over again in hell, mostly of our own making.
The only way out is through the knowledge that we must choose the good path. We must take the hard choices and do the right things. It will hurt. We will wish we did not do it. We will suffer. But through the suffering, we learn what is actually good and what is evil.
Once we have internalized this knowledge and know that we always have to take the correct choice, we get out.
Simple as that.
Yes, he did.
We were animals until we ate of the tree.
Once we bite in, our consciousness awakened and we became like him. We could see possibilities rather than just what was laid before us. We became like our Creator.
is this quote not from an exercise in logical thinking by ancient greeks? they just borrowed it for the film
It's from a logical sequence by Epicurus which isn't put in the movie fully because people only care for short, functional dogmas. The same reason this Christcuck is still hanging on to his belief, because he cannot fathom a world which is meaningless. Everyone who is religious is the same, as in that they're wrong.
I can understand faith in a god of sorts but specifically the God of the Hebrews? How do people that aren't Arabs even look themselves in the mirror let alone say "amen" out loud.
All atheists are by default anti-Semites and deny the right of Israel to exist yet you never hear them talk about it while Israel is actively geocoding people. These same atheists will piss and moan about all the evil in the Bible, but when israelites are currently doing the exact same evil shit they did in the Bible to basically the same frickin people, atheists see fit to spend their time arguing about if God could microwave a burrito so hot he couldn't eat it, while also being smug about how they've got it all figured out. frickin tools, im not even a Christ gay for fricks sake, just a person trying to being morally consistent and honest in this world. atheists, well, they sure as frick aren't doing that so frick em. frick em all with a bowl of cold spaghetti
God has no idea what he's doing.
He's just trying shit out and we have to deal with it.
Also he's okay with us telling him he's wrong and dumb, because in the void of godhood there's no reference points. He'd simply agree and allow us to take over governance of the cosmos.
it makes sense that we would though. we have to sleep every day for an extended period of time. it seems pretty reasonable that if nothing else could ever be agreed on re "moral questions", everybody frickin hates being woken from sleep. I could see a scenario where so called morality could develop just as a consequence of living next to other people and everybody frickin hates it when they are dragged from sleep. a basic agreement could be arranged, even if no other agreements like no stealing or killing, just to let each other sleep. it's overall self destructive to not have such an agreement. if nobody could ever get any long term sleep, our brains wouldn't work right and we eventually go nuts. I like to think that as soon as people starting pairing up and living together, the basic necessity of a sleep agreement starts the path to later "morality"
It was probably a lot of things that emerged together. All social animals like wolves, whales and apes have a kind of morality that helps them survive as a group.
>something that humans came up with
It's an emergent property of humans and social structures. You can't just "come up" with it because it's deeply rooted in our genes, traditions, etc. You can influence it, obviously. But you can't change it arbitrarily.
The Deist god is like a Prime Mover. Perfect in all ways and and free of attachment. It neither created nor concerns itself with the physical world.
The Pantheist god however is a being of desire. It willed itself into existence to try and emulate the Deist god. It intervenes with reality constantly, but because it is both the marble and the sculpter, and thus creates its own suffering. And it fricks up regularly.
We are simply that God experiencing it's own Creation.
In the end, neither is worth worshipping. The former would not listen, and the latter would be vanity.
The only solution is to imagine that Sisyphus is happy.
He's just rehashing Epicurus' paradox. It still hasnt been solved over 2000 years later but isnt some new idea.
people could see this obvious fact even back then
Hate this android Black person like you wouldn't believe
Sort of.
The Creator can not be all good if power can be exercised for evil purposes.
If evil beings can have power the an all good Creator would be powerless to stop them without rewriting all of Creation.
The failure to understand is the understanding of all good.
If you see evil as an end result, then you miss the purpose of Creation.
If you see evil as a process that must be used to refine good, than you can understand Creation and its full purpose.
Once you do that, you can see evil as merely a function of good and therefore the paradox resolves without issue.
Predeterminism disagrees. Your theory suggests that god willingly and knowingly created some people whose sole purpose is to be evil.
>predeterminism
another word for "I'm really too lazy to improve my lot in life so I will pretend that it's not my choice at all"
Predeterminism is a false logical path. It fails all tests, save the simplest.
No, my theory states that God created people.
People, being neither fully good or evil, as was necessary. He created them for both purposes. Those that find within themselves the capability to be good, overcome evil, in themselves and around them, as is necessary.
Good can not grow and be refined in a perfect world, just as you can not cut and polish a gem without cracking the original stone.
No, those people who confine themselves to just be evil chose that path, of their own free will, every time.
They do it because it is easier and less painful than trying to be better. They would remain the uncut stone, as it hurts to cut away the parts that are crusted with detritus.
An all-knowing god creates people with full knowledge of every choice they will ever make before they make them, including all the evil choices. Judas is a perfect example of this.
>"I will now create Judas"
>Judas betrays Jesus
>"NOOO THERE WAS NO WAY I COULD'VE SEEN THIS COMING BETTER CONDEMN HIM TO HELL"
judas literally had a choice to make and chose the wrong thing. he wasn't born just to make the wrong choice
So you're saying god didn't know which choice he'd make?
what a stupid question to ask. Did you have any other choice but to make a bad post? frickin moron
Well, maybe you can answer the other question. Did God know that Judas would betray Jesus or not?
He knew he could.
He knew exactly everything Judas could do in that situation.
He knew all possibilities and probabilities in that situation.
His knowledge of these did not predetermine anything, just as me knowing the possibilities/probabilites of it raining does not make it rain.
So god is not all-knowing but all-guessing? That's dumb.
I hate israelites more than you do, believe me
>I hate israelites more than you do, believe me
Oh of course, that's why you do their bidding.
There is no answer to that question. It's like asking "What does purple taste like?" Sure, you can come up with an answer but it's entirely meaningless. let's say I answered it anon, you'd just say "you cant know that" or call me a liar or whatever.
How about this, you tell me what color would express dignity to a gorilla and how you know that then we will go from there.
That gorilla question is equally meaningful and well thought out as your question
He was asked to do so. Unless you only take Vatican canon as true canon.
>Predeterminism disagrees.
Has predeterminism been proven empirically and is considered axiomatic?
Don't think so kiddo lol
God's actions are predetermined.
yes the most based way of doing shit
seed variable, sometimes the random int generator rolls max evil
>If you see evil as a process that must be used to refine good, than you can understand Creation and its full purpose.
But then why not create refined good from the start? Why the rigmarole?
He did, but humans preferred to have knowledge of both good and evil instead of just good.
Now that we have passed the point of no return we complain that knowledge is just too tiresome and complex and beg God to return us to monke.
So basically he’s not all powerful, got it.
>it's predetermined of me to have no actual argument, you fricking christgay
No one's forcing you to debate, you can just shrug your shoulders and say "God works in mysterious ways", which is sadly what all theodicy ultimately devolves to.
But if you insist on arguing at least try to make coherent arguments
why do determinismgays always argue in bad faith and when offered answers they just scream "well how do you know??" or "uuh no this doesn't satisfy me"?
it was predetermined that you are just dense, looks like
But you didn't offer an answer at all
thanks for proving me right
>determinismgays
I’m one of the people arguing with you and I never labeled myself that. I don’t even know what that is. Just answer the question or say I don’t know.
Did god know or not? It's a simple question with a yes/no answer.
A. How could anybody know the answer to this
B. If a person did claim to know the answer, you'd just squeal "It would be impossible to know that! You're making it up"
C. Frick you, moron
A. It's not that complucated of a question
B. That's a baseless assumption you made
C. I don't think God would appreciate you breaking one of the ten commandments like that
I'm not a christgay and saying "Frick you" doesn't break any of the commandments. You know what breaks the commandments? Israel's genocide of the Palestinians and their deliberate murder of children. Want to talk about that?
A. See
B. Pattern recognition is not baseless.
C. God would not care about the rules a bunch of deluded desert dwelling inbreds made up and claimed were his. Just as he would not care about the other poster pointing out that you are moronic. He would simply see what everyone involved would do. Would you continue to be moronic? Probabilities are high. Would you continue to be a tool? Probabilities are high. Would you learn a lesson? Probabilities are low.
A. Know that God is not like us. There is no limit to his knowledge, yet his knowledge has no influence on our choices. The only possibility left is that he knows ALL choices. Once you understand that, there is no conflict.
B. This is standard for all predeterminists. You are correct that they always argue in bad faith as it excuses their bad choices and renders them blameless for their evil ways.
C. Yes.
You can’t have it both ways, anon. God is either all powerful or he is all good. You’ve shown that he’s not all powerful with your comments if he’s letting his creations run away from him and unable to create a utopia here on earth (but can somehow do so in heaven without infringing on “free will”).
>I'm predetermined to cope, you israelite golem!
>He did, but humans preferred to have knowledge of both good and evil instead of just good.
So he didn't, then?
No. He didn't.
He created animals. Being without knowledge of good or evil, can not be good.
You have to know both to be able to choose one.
You can not. He can not. Nothing can create good without it knowing evil and overcoming it. You try and you get rebellions and The Fall.
Without the forging of a soul in the cauldron of free will you get weakness and the likelihood of a corruption to evil, usually through Pride, but Lust is another big one, as shown by the Watchers and the Nephilim.
At least if you believe that legend, which I don't.
What I do believe is that those legends were invented to show us the logical fallacies that certain lines of thought lead to, like your.
Truth is, just as you can not have only one side of a coin, you can not have good without evil. You must transcend evil to prove your goodness.
Funny thing is, yes, most people know their choices and choose the easy path. That easy path is often evil. Yes, we know it. Deep down we always know it. We lie to ourselves to allow ourselves to take the evil path, but we know the truth when we stop and think.
As far as Hell, we are in it. We burn in ignorance, hate, fear and all the passions that lead us astray. We burn every day of our lives. Burning the edges of our soul over and over again in hell, mostly of our own making.
The only way out is through the knowledge that we must choose the good path. We must take the hard choices and do the right things. It will hurt. We will wish we did not do it. We will suffer. But through the suffering, we learn what is actually good and what is evil.
Once we have internalized this knowledge and know that we always have to take the correct choice, we get out.
Simple as that.
>He created animals.
No. He didn't.
Yes, he did.
We were animals until we ate of the tree.
Once we bite in, our consciousness awakened and we became like him. We could see possibilities rather than just what was laid before us. We became like our Creator.
What on earth are you talking about
Because the process is beautiful. It's like God is writing a symphony and you're going why are there minor notes.
Death, rape, misery are all minor notes? Got it
oh boohoo uh boohoohoo guys god is le evil because pain exists how could he do this to me? I better act like a homosexual about it and pout
Keep whining b***h, it's just a minor note
im not the one complaining anon, you're the homosexual atheist getting all buttblasted over death rape and misery not me
>Once you do that, you can see evil as merely a function of good and therefore the paradox resolves without issue.
Then you don't have good and evil.
And you fail the test.
You deserve to stay and suffer.
You will learn or you will stay and burn for eternity.
Those are the only choices.
When you die you cease to exist. You've wasted your life studying and doing mental gymnastics for a israeli desert myth.
It's from a logical sequence by Epicurus which isn't put in the movie fully because people only care for short, functional dogmas. The same reason this Christcuck is still hanging on to his belief, because he cannot fathom a world which is meaningless. Everyone who is religious is the same, as in that they're wrong.
is this quote not from an exercise in logical thinking by ancient greeks? they just borrowed it for the film
it's a quote from an ancient greek who was BTFOd by more competent philosophers so many times even during his time
>No one realizes that this scene is from Alien: Covenant and not Prometheus.
I realised and I said nothing. I listened instead, which is what no one else did.
Why can't it be all-powerfull and all-good?
because its god not my wiener
because muh fly-bitten somalians…
No, he was a robot.
Why would a perfect god create humans in the first place?
Because he is bored?
If God is God then he can do whatever he wants. Including lifting the rock he can't lift.
Oh boy another thread where religiongays cope for 300+ replies and no one convinces anyone of anything. Quality thread, OP.
I can understand faith in a god of sorts but specifically the God of the Hebrews? How do people that aren't Arabs even look themselves in the mirror let alone say "amen" out loud.
All atheists are by default anti-Semites and deny the right of Israel to exist yet you never hear them talk about it while Israel is actively geocoding people. These same atheists will piss and moan about all the evil in the Bible, but when israelites are currently doing the exact same evil shit they did in the Bible to basically the same frickin people, atheists see fit to spend their time arguing about if God could microwave a burrito so hot he couldn't eat it, while also being smug about how they've got it all figured out. frickin tools, im not even a Christ gay for fricks sake, just a person trying to being morally consistent and honest in this world. atheists, well, they sure as frick aren't doing that so frick em. frick em all with a bowl of cold spaghetti
Most atheists still have the Christian moral predisposition, so they're still israelite slaves. They just don't believe in god.
>2013
no, prometheus came out 5 years ago at most.
No this has always been a CRAWLING IN MY SKIN take.
>abloo bloo the universe isnt perfect so I get to do whatever I want
God has no idea what he's doing.
He's just trying shit out and we have to deal with it.
Also he's okay with us telling him he's wrong and dumb, because in the void of godhood there's no reference points. He'd simply agree and allow us to take over governance of the cosmos.
The quote isn't even from this movie. It's something Lex Luthor says in BvS.
Is morality just something that humans came up with?
probably
it makes sense that we would though. we have to sleep every day for an extended period of time. it seems pretty reasonable that if nothing else could ever be agreed on re "moral questions", everybody frickin hates being woken from sleep. I could see a scenario where so called morality could develop just as a consequence of living next to other people and everybody frickin hates it when they are dragged from sleep. a basic agreement could be arranged, even if no other agreements like no stealing or killing, just to let each other sleep. it's overall self destructive to not have such an agreement. if nobody could ever get any long term sleep, our brains wouldn't work right and we eventually go nuts. I like to think that as soon as people starting pairing up and living together, the basic necessity of a sleep agreement starts the path to later "morality"
It was probably a lot of things that emerged together. All social animals like wolves, whales and apes have a kind of morality that helps them survive as a group.
>something that humans came up with
It's an emergent property of humans and social structures. You can't just "come up" with it because it's deeply rooted in our genes, traditions, etc. You can influence it, obviously. But you can't change it arbitrarily.
There are 2 Gods, a Deist and a Pantheist.
The Deist god is like a Prime Mover. Perfect in all ways and and free of attachment. It neither created nor concerns itself with the physical world.
The Pantheist god however is a being of desire. It willed itself into existence to try and emulate the Deist god. It intervenes with reality constantly, but because it is both the marble and the sculpter, and thus creates its own suffering. And it fricks up regularly.
We are simply that God experiencing it's own Creation.
In the end, neither is worth worshipping. The former would not listen, and the latter would be vanity.
The only solution is to imagine that Sisyphus is happy.
Alien Romulus teaser trailer:
%3D%3D
Is it the videoquality or do the sets look weirdly cgi-y?
The video quality on yt is bad for some reason
why did he kill the harkonnen planet
define good? what it means to be good? god is justice and justice is good but it is not always something pretty to look at
He's just rehashing Epicurus' paradox. It still hasnt been solved over 2000 years later but isnt some new idea.
people could see this obvious fact even back then