Talk about any and every DC good guy there is, why you like them, and why they should be used more. And if they're in need a revamp, pitch how they should be redesigned both visually and motivationally. The more obscure, the better.
I'll start the thread with Red Tornado. Decent look, cool powers, so what more would you want from him?
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Not a hero per se but I'm fascinated by non cape characters owned by cape publishers.
DC's attempt to make a non super hero line with National comics in the earl 10's was very interesting but it saddens me it failed, I would had liked Roy Raymond TV Detective to have been revived on this line but those chances are long gone.
National Comics failed because the stories were very blatantly TV/movie pitches.
Just like everything Image puts out
Yeah there was a series of miniseries about each team member of Uncle Sam's Freedom Fighters but they never got assembled.
Not really
So what comics are these days?
They were never meant to be ongoing series. They were purposefully made to create pitches for different networks when DC started actively to shop IPs for potential tv show adaptations
I remember also Human Bomb and that mini woman push from new52
Was this worth reading?
>Red Tornado: Debuts August 1968
>Vision: Debuts August 1968
Think there's a connection?
If you like your alien women green, naked, and with giant bald heads, Scanner is the girl for you. Part of the space sparing cosmic team The Vanguard; they showed up once in a New Titans annual to help fight Brainiac. Has the standard psychic power to go with her big brain.
And the rest of them
Comics need more weird as frick aliens like this.
>If you like your alien women green, naked, and with giant bald heads, Scanner is the girl for you.
I do like all that, but I really hate the veins, it sucks.
What's the best take on Doctor Fate?
>Kent Nelson in control
>Nabu using Kent's body as a vessel
>The two merging into one personality
Also why is it so hard for DC to use him? Then again, a lot of magical characters are neglected and left stuck in supporting roles.
Kent in control with Nabu as his Ancient One. Over time they merge into one identity but Kent should have agency
> We will never get Man of Steel 2 adapting the TAS episode Hand of Fate with Brosnan as side lead & Amy Adams getting tentacle manhandled by Cuthulu-lites.
Why live?
What about favorite Fates?
>Kent Nelson
>Eric Strauss
>Linda Strauss
>Inza
>Jared (pic related)
>Hector Hall
>Khalid
Kent Nelson in control.
Kent Nelson. Doctor Fate suffers as a character by having had so many different people in the role.
You really think Kent Nelson is that interesting of a character?
Different anon, I don't think he is super interesting but, are the others? Besides, I think the point being made is changing the person beneath the helmet is a redo that hindered any substantive permanency & audience accessibility the identity could have had. Furthermore, the differing takes
on what being Doctor Fate even entails further muddles it all. Owing to those points, there is really little of meaningful substance to the identity beyond 'Doctor Fate is a powerful sorcerer that wears/is a helmet'. Making and keeping it so Doctor Fate is Kent Nelson in control means there is an actual character.
I always liked when batman would team up with him in that late 2000's show. always was cool.
The other Son of Vulcan. When he says his magic word, he is transformed from a crippled young man into a mighty superman blessed by the Roman gods and can call upon any weapon in Vulcan's forge. Surprisingly has never met Wonder Woman or Captain Marvel.
He met both of them during War of the Gods, non-reader.
They never actually met, they just existed in the same story.
They definitely met, anon. John Mann was there to assist Wonder Woman in the Underworld before the end, and he discusses with Harmonia how the Roman pantheon ditched him there for the Big Red Cheese, instead.
Nobody has ever given a singular shit about Red Tornado. He's basically Vision at home.
The key difference to begin with was Marvel kept Vision around, and made him a key member of the Avengers, while it was years until DC thought to have Red Tornado as an ongoing presence in the JLA. But Red Tornado's evil dad being some mad scientist guy while Vision's evil dad is Ultron, and Red Tornado marrying a civilian woman and adopting a kid while Vision marries a big booba sorceress heroine and has magic babies really makes Red Tornado look like the second rate "we have Vision at home" option.
Oddly Red Tornado is the only one of the two who ever got a story arc where he gets to experience life in a human body.
I was going to say that Torado was a Vision ripoff but they actually (ignoring the Uthoon retcon which didn't come until the '80s) debuted in the same month.
Screw you I like him
I don't mind him either, but I'm not really sure what you can do with him
He is fundamentally a supporting character, he had the moment when he saved the JLA and JSA and sacrificed himself in the satellite era, he had his crisis of man vs machine vs elemental air spirit in the satellite era, BTBTAB and Meltzer's first Justice League arc with his family
Maybe you could elaborate on the T.O.Morrow influence, with how his goal was to see into the future, and like Meltzer highlighted, how ridiculously advanced his android body was, but I don't think he can carry his own solo
I would like to see him more, what I loved about the satellite era is that they rotated through their cast of 15 leaguers (+ phantom stranger as a part-time member)
>He is fundamentally a supporting character
And you should use him as a supporting character for either specific character(s) or team(s).
batman should be used in more stuff
Plastic Man!
If he can turn into anything he should turn into a good superhero!
But he is
>t. ralph
based plastic man poster
Seeing what DC has done to him, I'd rather keep him put away.
What? He was on The Terrific's book, which was great.
Also shout out to Mister Terrific
What has DC done to him?
Iman, DC's iron man or Mexico's Steel. A super scientist who clearly loves anime, and certified background filler for international hero pages.
DC should have a mecha teamup book or a mecha war mini where all their power armour people can fight
I like all those guys' designs.
Agreed. They were created for a Superman annual and barely anything else after that. They all had cool designs and powers, and were built up to sorta be Mexico's JLA. DC's plethora of obscure international heroes is critically underused.
DC had a bunch of them for Planet DC, an event in the 2000 annuals that introduced a bunch of new international heroes who basically showed up in that issue and then never again. Sala was maybe the coolest of them since she was a champion or reincarnation of Ishtar or something and was Kyle Rayner's friend from college. The author used her in another miniseries he wrote so her stories are about her and the heroes fighting gods and stuff from Mesopotamian mythology.
>Kyle Rayner
Everything that guy touches either dies or fades into obscurity.
I hate it when all the like things get grouped together. It's such a non thing, and produces character ghettos.
Is it better for D-listers to be completed forgotten like the Blood Pack or be used for cannon fodder like these guys?
i have no idea who the blood pack is and the only thing i know about these guys is the guy in green got all his arms ripped off
Canon fodder and padding out team rosters. Argent getting featured in the 99 Titans was great. Risk would have been a z-lister if Johns didn't tear his arm off in Infinite Crisis. Everyone only remembered Joto existed when King killed him in HiC. Otherwise they just get forgotten like Prysm.
After actually reading Jurgens' Titans, I'd rather they got forgotten than getting used as cannon fodder.
Risk specially deserved better than getting villainized, his arms ripped off, and then killed by fricking Tom Taylor, it fricking sucks.
No see the joke is that he gets his arm ripped off and has to resort to robbery to pay for the pain pill addiction it gave him and this is funny because he's white trash and trashy white people love pain pills lmao
I'm guessing Johns or someone would have never had the balls to make Joto/Hotspot a crackhead as a running gag though.
Earth-2 Robin has to be one of the worst designs I've ever seen. I just can never take him seriously. It looks like he just grabbed a Batman costume from a Spirit Halloween, took off the cowl, and half-assedly added a popped collar cape and sewed his own logo on. And this was supposed to be one of Earth-2's premiere heroes.
Frick, at least the first Nightwing costume hada decent color scheme (but costume design was never Perez's forte) and the second one is honestly really good aside from the mullet/ponytail.
Geoff Johns fricking sucks. Also, you're right about that costume being atrocious. I also don't care for Hawkman's wrestler mask or Atom's head fin thing.
>I'm guessing Johns or someone would have never had the balls to make Joto/Hotspot a crackhead as a running gag though.
Of course not, but they'll still give him some random made up catchphrase just to kill him off right away.
HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE SMART ONE
He's there as the token sacrifice in every mission
Him, Martian Manhunter, and Captain Atom should start a jobber support group.
How good is his original run?
This is the original hotline Miami
I think you just sold me on reading it
He recently got a story in the Batman Brave and the Bold anthology.
Frick the moronic android that wants to be human. WTF? All I want is solid Tornado Champion stories. And the frick is up with Kathy Sutton and Traya? Are they even fricking REAL, or themselves unaging androids programmed by Morrow to keep the Tornado Champion cucked into believing he's a stupid fricking android that wants to be human?
Primal Force Tornado is best Tornado.
Well the good news is his wife left him and his daughter currently doesn't exist. Now he just has a chatbot in the image of his ex-wife.
I don't think the elemental thing is canon anymore. He's just a robot now.
Everything is canon, anon.
That's stupid but you are correct.
>Frick the moronic android that wants to be human. WTF? All I want is solid Tornado Champion stories.
Isn't that just a retcon from the 1980s though?
A "robot who wants to be more human" story is always kino, I wish people who didn't enjoy that would just not read them instead of complaining about them, or even better, not be allowed to write those characters.
When did this happen? I didn't even know they'd brought him back anywhere after New 52 started.
Thanks, ChatGPT.
weird reply
low iq response
>When did this happen?
The recent Valentine's Day special
That sucks
>Marvel sperged out about Vision marrying a human, separated them, did some cuckship garbage, and several times tried pushing the idea he should 'be with his own kind'
>DC eventually repeated all of the same thing with Red Tornado and did it all in a short story in a Valentine's Day issue
DC constantly find new ways to disappoint and frustrate.
That was a cute story, but I like him having a wife and kid. When every DC hero has a family who also fights crime and has superpowers, it's a funny contrast that the robot who is also an elemental has a perfectly normal, mundane family life.
They showed up in One Star Squardon just a year and a half ago, but no one read that.
Hourman is one of those characters that just exists. You'll never hear anyone ever say he's their favorite.
This dude will always be hampered by the fact that his powers come from popping pills. He should have time travel powers that are limited to an hour or something.
I remember that time there was an Hourman vs Bane story because someone at DC realized they both get their powers from drugs.
Someone takes Blockbuster's serum, Bane's Venom, and pops an Hourman pill all at the same time. What happens?
I've liked this guy since Wildcats #1. It's a shame he never gets used for anything.
You kidding? Jim Lee won't stop trying to shove this douche in our faces.
I'd be impressed if he tried to push Grifter 2 instead.
The hell is that supposed to mean
What are you having difficulty with, exactly?
Grifter 2 is considerably more obscure than Grifter 1.
That's not a real character.
The frick he isn't, he appears all through Wildcats Version 3.0. Try reading comics.
I used to fap to him
Sideways, he's the teenaged antics of Ultimate Spider-Man mixed with more horror elements. He has so much potential.
I love every dark age of heroes characters from 2018.
brimstone
silencer
damage
immortal men
the unpected
The original SANDMAN Wesley Dodds is awesome
>prophetic dreams of murders and other crimes that give him leads with no real explanation why he has them
>cool and practical costume
>just beats the shit out of people after gassing them with sleeping gas from his gas gun
Got his due with Sandman Mystery Theater. Perfect series that ran its course
SMT is genuinely one of my favorite superhero comics
>bird of prey
Why do we say this instead of bird of predation? Bird of prey just sounds like it's the one who should be getting eaten.
Semantics and the fun of the english language. Prey is also a verb. Prey is prey because it is preyed upon. Birds of prey, prey on smaller animals, which are its prey.
So which Black Condor is best?
Man who learned to fly because he was raised by condors, and would go on to become a Senator. And would later learn that condors cannot teach you to fly and it was actually a radioactive meteorite that gave him his powers, though the birds were still there for moral support.
A man who was experimented on as a child, gained telekinesis and decided on a bird theme for environmental messaging.
Navajo man granted the magical mantle of the Black Condor by a stacked spider goddess
Bottom one looks the coolest.
They all sound like they suck. Them looking like prostitutes is appreciated though.
Phew that second Condor gets hosed in Robinson's Starman. Robinson writes every aspect of that 80+ issue epic with infinite care and depth but has zero no time for Condor because he's mad DC wouldn't let him use Hawkman. Feels like he threw out all of his ideas for Hawkman and replaced them with nothing.
There's also the one from the last Freedom Fighters book.
Black man born into slavery under the Nazis and grew up in the labor camps of Detroit until he built a par of mechanical wings to escape.
Matt Wagner is the all time GOAT
For me it's Guy "The Guy" Davis
I miss Sandy
At least Wes has SMT. Poor Sandy practically got shoved into limbo once Goyer left the book. Even a lot of JSA fans forgot he was a prominent member.
Sandy was the team leader during the best JSA run
He got a fricking SICK design when he became Sandman. It barely ever got used.
Metamorpho has such an odd origin in comparison to his powers
>Basically Indiana Jones
>Artifact/Meteor makes him The Element Man
That composite Element design is hard to make work but too distinctive to beat.
He always reminds me of Neapolitan ice cream.
He has a great design at least.
He's pretty much the thing with elemental powers right?
Why don't they have Doctor Mid-Nite as a resident on-call medic anymore?
That character has been trapped in the JSA ghetto and never allowed to leave.
I don't really understand why DC is so reluctant to have the JSA as on-staff home base heroes that interact with the public around the Hall of Justice
>Doctor Mid-Nite oversees med bay and handles complex surgeries
>Jay Garrick is coordinator of disasters/monitor duty
>Wildcat runs the gym and mentors the younger heroes
>Doctor Fate just dicks around meditating, monitoring for mystical threats
Not sure what Alan Scott or Hourman could do. But the Hall of Justice and Watchtower should have no name staff dressed like Challengers of the Unknown like in the JLU cartoon
Because people want them to be their own thing rather than old people used as servants for the league.
They're Geoff John's toys to play with and nobody else gets to play with them.
Almost any DC fanfic I read has him appear as THE DOCTOR on the space station
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
I miss Jericho
The only somewhat relevant Wilson right now is Rose, specially after Slade lost his supersoldier juice.
Manitou Raven was a cool motherfricker and I'll never understand why they literally cucked him and then killed him off within three years of his introduction.
there seems to be a stigma about any native character being a racist caricature
That reminds me of Equinox. They hyped her up as proper representation, and she ended up the most generic magical native super hero yet.
I actually like Equinox. It's cool that her powers change with the seasons.
Cool but kinda hard to pull off because it would imply the passage of time unless they have her as a globetrotting hero.
>because it would imply the passage of time
And? You think time means anything? You do realise they regularly do Christmas stories too, you know?
Bring back Long Shadow
Kelly is the guy who wrote all of his appearances so it seems pretty obvious that him eventually dying and his wife taking up his spot was the way his story arc was always intended to go.
Who the hell are these people?
Luthor's Everyman Project from 52. This is their only appearance iirc.
So they all fell from the sky and died when Luthor turned their powers off.
Anyone want to try to post all of the rando super teams Morrison has created that then are ignored forever?
Morrison is almost incapable of creating characters with normal powers. For the life of me I can't tell you what half of the Ultramarines do because they're all complicated bullshit.
Correct but it was a strength during his X-Men run where it's better for the mutants to have freaky weird powers
You now remember Mother of Champions, who had super pregnancy powers
By the way the Justice League of China have joined The Great Ten technically
This looks awful. The only cool looking one is the monster dude in the back.
>This looks awful
Bro New Super-Man and the Justice League of China is not only great, but also widely liked on Cinemaphile of all places
Oh wow, poggers! Ordering right now!
You don't have to be a dickhead. I could give a rundown on it if you'd like. Or are you just here to act up like the Peridot spammer that just got banned again? Because I'd be more than happy to talk about the JLoC
frick off
Them having two blue guys is triggering my autism. They couldn’t have made the Aquaman yellow or orange?
>two blue guys
Red Superman
Green Wonder Woman
Violet Flash
Blue Batman
Aquagreen Aquaman
You know, I never noticed, maybe it's cause I'm colorblind lol, they look distinct enough to me.
I was tempted to respond with these guys but they were in Doomsday Clock, so they haven't been thrown into the void competely.
I'll never forget Mother of Champions, Talia had kidnapped her in the Tomasi Nightwing run and she was pumping out babies to be turned into winged horrors.
Victory V's
I like the alleged binder full of Freedom Fighters ideas based on Quality's characters that only Didio, Palmiotti, and Gray have ever seen or worked from. There's apparently a bunch of stuff like this from Morrison. I remember the afterword of the Doom Force! Special had a list of some 50 copyrighted and trademarked original characters who were 'members' of Doom Force considered for inclusion in the special.
Big red, Big Barda, Zatanna, Constantine. Justice league: bullshit magic whammys. They handle all the god bothering that needs to be done.
Anyone else really dislike that they brought back Mister Terrific's unborn son? Specially considering they also gave him the time displaced sidekick of the original Mister Terrific.
Feels very cheap to just bring him back, the dead of his wife and unborn son are part of his backstory, I hate when writers mess with "backstory characters" like that, at least when they brought back Thomas Wayne and Jor-El, those were specifically not supposed to come back, and the writers rightfully got rid of them at the end, with Michael's son, he just came back, already grown and supersmart ready to be a sidekick, it's very fricking cheap.
I hate how massively bloated the JSA cast is in general.
That's a interesting idea! If you had to make a JSA with only 7 to 8 members who would you pick?
Golden Age Roster:
Green Lantern
Flash
Wildcat
Hawkman
Hawkgirl
Liberty Bell
Starman
Rotating member depending on the Adventure.
Would that only be the WW2 era team or the modern day team?
You can pick from any time. It's your ideal team.
>The Sandman
>Doctor Fate
>Starman
>The Flash
>Doctor Mid-Nite
>Mister Terrific
>Shining Knight
>Vigilante
If we're going to have 2 Hawks, I'd rather have Hawkwoman instead of Hawkgirl.
That's not as clear a statement as you think it is.
Kendra is Hawkgirl, Shayera is Hawkwoman, it's not as confusing as some make it out to be.
Carter is currently with Shayera, while Kendra is doing her own thing.
>while Kendra is doing her own thing.
Yeah, like not getting her comic renewed.
Get rid of one of them.
Anon, if DC were run by sane people and handled things properly, you'd have Hawkman and Hawkwoman locked in as a couple and writers not allowed to mess with that, and if they want to have some random other hero paired up with a female Hawk character, Hawkgirl is right there, no need for weird stories about cucking Hawkman.
I think you’re really over exaggerating how many people today care about the Hawks as a couple.
Doesn't matter how many people care, what matters is not ruining characters for the sake of weird cucking stories.
You're underestimating it, Hawkgays get on constant Twitter wars whenever some secondary brings up the DCAU.
>no need for weird stories about cucking Hawkman.
Too late now, sadly
Hmm. The JSA has so many good members and characters it’s hard to choose.
If only 7-8 members I’d try to choose an array of powers and personality then.
>Alan
>Jay
>Sandy
>Mr Terrific
>Stargirl
>Cyclone
>Obsidian
And then a wildcard who hasn’t been used in forever like Miss America or Yolanda so you could do really anything with them
I kinda want a completely fricked up lineup with none of the usual players just to see what a writer could come up with.
>Rex, Fury (Helena Kosmatos), and Sandy as the old guard
>Obsidian, Jade, and Brainwave Jr for Infinity Inc/next gen rep
>Lightning, Damage, and Salem as the young ones of the group
>completely fricked up lineup
On that note, the members of Helix never get their due, raised as they were believing they were the natural successors to the Justice Society. A few of them should make it onto the roster.
Also, Johnny's son Willpower and Kara's son Equinox would be nice to see again for shits and giggles.
I absolutely fricking hate it. These aging Dad writers are all compelled to give everyone children, no matter how our of place.
It's just going to be an anchor around the character's neck indefinitely.
Yes. Stupid. What does it add to Mr. Terrific when he’s a small secondary character in Flash? Is him being all “wow this is weird but also the kid is smart so that’s cool I guess” for a page or two when he can show up in the book interesting to people?
You can tell Adams wanted a team for Irey and Jai and then had to walk back on most of it once DC yanked him off Flash
There's already enough young characters, we really didn't need that bullshit he did with Granny Goodness, should've let those dead kids stay dead.
I'm honestly still shocked DC hasn't done an elseworld Titans title of their kids becoming Titans.
Irey, Jai, and Lian were all popular enough to come back, and Mar'i gets more fanart than all of them combined.
>Teenage Irey
>No jacket
Heresy
I love all of Alex Ross's original designs.
"ER-ER-ER-ER-ER-ER-ER-ER-ER-"
I'd read a Bumblebee book
I for one support bee themed power armour heroes.
Actually disappointed they ignored her when Johns introduced Ladybug.
she's clearly stuck in whatever weird corner the Freedom Fighters get put in
I hate that they get stuck there. Freedom Fighters are cool as frick.
Well yeah, but Johns also just introduced a bunch of secret sidekicks to the original Freedom Fighters, I was hoping he'd acknowledge that old new Red Bee.
In fact, I was also hoping the original Red Bee would come back, using his design and characterization from that one Peacemaker mini, and THEN the 2 Red Bees could have a crossover with the 2 Blue Beetles (and Sparky and Ladybug of course), it pretty much writes itself, specially if they were to bring back those alien insects that Jenna fought along with the Reach somehow.
The problem with the Freedom Fighters is that they don't really work outside of the Earth-X set up. I mean what are they really if they're not fighting an oppressive Nazi (or whatever) regime that's taken over America? You make them a government team and so what? There's a dozen of those. So okay then they're not a government team, then they're just a D-tier generic team. There's no real role or niche for them in the normal DCU.
How about a government superhero team that aren't one-dimensional jobbers or villains for fricking once
What is DC ideal era here?
The one from when I started reading.
>Amethyst, Princess of Gemworld
I'm always feel intrigued by this one.
Never read her comic.
I'm always down for more Shining Knight
What is DC stand for though?
it stands for hope
It used to stand for "Detective Comics", these days it stands for the people running a once-great company into the ground; Dumb Cretins.
dick wiener
dc comics
Any MM fans on Cinemaphile? I think he's among the more interesting ayys in DC. Been a while since he had a good solo though.
I liked "American Secrets"
Still waiting for DC to collect the Ostrander series.
Does Bronze Tiger count as a hero?
He should go back to wearing the tiger head, it was at the very least memorable.
I like him.
Nice art.
DC has so much underutilized characters nevertheless with a rich history it's funny. I know it wouldn't sell - but what does? - but they should create a JLI-like group of minor heroes, not necessarily with a JLI writing style. At least Geoff is keeping alive the JSA memory.
die tornado man
What do you think that is best for DC?