remember Doomsday Clock? what the frick even happened with that? did anything meaningful to the DC universe as a whole actually happen?
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remember Doomsday Clock? what the frick even happened with that?
No, it was just another one of Geoff Johns' failed attempts to prove that he's a real, serious writer.
>Look, I use 9 panels. And there are naked characters being tortured by the Joker. Doesn't this remind you Alan Moore?
>Doesn't this remind you Alan Moore?
Tom King does that same exact shit. Why are comic book fans such rubes?
>the industry is dying and sales are catastrophic
>'such rubes'
You're not very smart, are you?
You're certainly not.
>Tom King does that same exact shit
This says more about Tom King's comics than about the readers. It's just 9 panel, war crimes, man completely emotionally dependent on woman, woman attacks man. And you have a Tom King comic to compete for Eisner.
>who's israeliteing who
Readers enable these hacks.
>Tom King does that same exact shit.
Anon you say that as if we are supposed to LIKE Tom King?
He's tricked enough people with that shit.
The jsa, and Kent's came back
>what the frick even happened with that? did anything meaningful to the DC universe as a whole actually happen?
They get to have a big bold important looking prestige book on the shelves and end caps of book stores. That was the goal. Just more content, in this case content that reads as, and seeps the gravitas from, Watchmen, their great perennial seller. Look out for the many new editions and formats to come, true believer!
It was supposed to be canon but then it wasn't and it kind of is but not really. It's best to think of it as self contained and a kind of sequel to Watchmen.
>It's best to think of it
It's best not to think of it.
>It was supposed to be canon
Still is.
It's panels like this is why we need to go back to 1 world, 1 canon. None of this everything is canon nonsense. No multiverse, no multiple timelines, just stop the confusion.
Public domain everything atp, cause none of this shit is selling anyway, superheroes are losing popularity. We need to up the writing quality, and that won't happen if copyright jeeps good writers from upping the quality of these characters.
>We need to up the writing quality
Frankly we need the Big 2 to collapse, because hardly anyone who can actually write still works for them.
>Frankly we need the Big 2 to collapse
That happens and the entire American comic industry goes with them.
Good riddance. We need a scorched earth before new, healthy growth can replace the current cesspool. We need a complete and total failure of the industry in it's current state before future creators remember that trusting your franchise to a big company instead of staying creator-owned is a fricking mistake.
That's not going to happen and you know it. The Big Two collapse and comics go. There's no regrowing it. Marvel and DC will exist as literal instead of virtual IP farms only reprinting old stories and the occasional new graphic novel when their corporate owner wants something to use for a movie or TV show. The only indie that survives is Image since it's already a movie/TV pitch farm anyway but everything else dies since Marvel and DC are going to be what drives people to comic shops and without that distribution there's no way for them to continue.
That's the attitude of a loser. If Image is the only thing that survives, so be it. Nothing, and I mean nothing, is worth watching what the Big Two are doing to their IP.
I wonder if Image can survive without the other two? I can only see that Kirkman might be the only surviving thing.
>Trump declarations and cyber threats in 2018
>North Korea in 2007
>Nuclear terrorism in 2002
Anyone care to remind me of what these were?
I think Trump made some Anti-China declarations?
I looked it up, Trump ended the Iran nuclear deal.
Also frick Diamond by the way, the fact that we're still hung up on bullshit distributer middlemen like that is a sign of how buckbroken the American comic industry is.
Isnt this how Disney do their comics? 90% reprints, mostly Carl Barks.
Dogman’s gonna be fine
Nobody here cares about Dogman.
Good
At this point, fricking GOOD.
Neither Marvel or DC these days actually care about making good comics. All the money is in films and shows and games and merch. The only reason both of them are still producing comics are solely because that's where their IP farms started.
If they both Marvel and DC suddenly came out tomorrow and said they'd no longer be making new comics because it was no longer profitable and they realised that they weren't turning out good books, then either Image/Dark Horse/IDW get to try and step up to the plate, or the industry finally dies and takes a long, much-needed rest until someone wants to try again.
It's canon because everything is canon at DC.
The problem it took so long to come out and Johns didn't tell anyone the story they had to ignore it's events in the monthlys.
And then he did it again with Three Jokers. It'd be sad if it wasn't so funny.
I still don't understand why Manhattan suddenly became a gorillion times more powerful in DC than he was shown to be in Watchmen. Well, I kind of do (he is apparently a massive font of Anti-Crisis energy which is like...good vibes and continuity and bullshit like that. And implicitly the power of friendship. And that's the power that the Presence/the Source/the Overvoid, yes Death Metal really equated all those things with each other, entrusted the Super Celestials/Hands to create multiverses with) but it is both a terribly presented explanation and also one that raises more questions than answers.
This whole thing's so weird to think about, it's like one of those crossover things where the Justice League fight the Power Rangers' villains or some shit like that but they treated it like this super serious lore thing even though by the time it was written DC had long since alienated pretty much all actual Mooregays.
What the frick did Three Jokers even add? What does the Joker being 3 different people meaningfully contribute when two of them wound up dead by the end and the remaining one's identity doesn't even matter? WHY THE FRICK CAN'T YOU TRUST BATMAN TO DO SOMETHING ACTUALLY PRODUCTIVE WITH THE GOD-CHAIR INSTEAD OF JUST ASK ONE QUESTION AND THEN FRICK OFF TO BULLY JOE CHILL
Manhattan was basically omnipotent in Watchmen, outside of the tachyon thing.
Otherwise, he was strong enough to do whatever he wanted, but just didn't want to do anything.
Indeed, he is really powerfull. But reality hoping really seems too powerfull.
>batgirl inkitan just in space in their normal outfits
What do you mean? They have special aura that generates breathable air.
Firestorm made air for everyone earlier.
Manhattan is a matter morpher and telekinesis user. So this is kinda a creative use of it. Just the universe hoping seems very far reached.
This kinda reminds me of Cypher from X-Men joke where he knows language and this includes nody languag, magic language and so on.
>What does the Joker being 3 different people meaningfully contribute when two of them wound up dead by the end and the remaining one's identity doesn't even matter?
I haven’t read Batman in 4 years but didn’t they recently confirm that in current canon there used to be three Jokers and of the one that’s left he’s got the Killing Joke as actual backstory like in Three Jokers? So it was kinda influential I guess
I thought Zdarsky's Batman has one Joker with three personalities as part of his butchering of the Zur-En-Arrh concept. Not whatever Johns did.
>three jokers was better than the killing joke
>made a better and more meaningful comic than watchman
How does Johns keep getting away with it?
His influences are our influences, comics. Not muh pretentious literature that nobody has read accept boomer englishmen.
>nobody has read accept boomer englishmen.
you should read more.
It reset it. But then Death Metal also reset the universe making Johns reset pointless
how many fricking times is DC going to keep resetting universes before falling right back into the same pit?
They did it, what, five times in about 7 years, between hard reboots and soft reboots/relaunches, right?
>hard reboots
DC’s never done a hard reboot, that’s the problem. Every time they try to they get cold feet and go “oh well actually this, this, and this are still canon but this, this, and this aren’t” which is why we’re in this perpetual hell of reboots and retcons. Well, that and dopes like Brad Meltzer who’s like “I want everything to be how it was when I was ten years old”
One of the arguments an editor or writer used against Shooter's Big Bang idea at Marvel was that if they did a reset inevitably it'd just lead to more resets. I assume because once you've let that genie out there's no putting it back and the answer to every "things have gotten too confusing/the sales are way down and need to be refreshed" problem because "just hit the reset button."
Well, DC sure proved them right.
All DC does is reboots, that's their main story point
>reset all universes into one universe to bring back coherence
>then reset all the universes to please adult crybabies
Infinite loop.
>IT'S
No, it was supposed to be meaningful but it got so many delays so everyone ignored it which allowed Snyder to take the spotlight with his Dark saga.
Frick off
Humiliation ritual
Nothing in it matters, because DC never has a plan for the future.
Yes I love that comic, is one of my favourite ones, not ironically.
No, the direction the comics were planned to take changed.
So it became just a glimpse of a remnand of a lost universe.
It was meant to, but plans definitely got reshuffled as Synder's Metal event took that priority (plus adding Bendis to the mix). Definitely hurt that it took so fricking long to actually release all issues.
For as bad as it is, between this, the HBO show and Tom King's Rorschach, this is by far the best Watchmen sequel.
>Tom King's Rorschach
I liked it
You must hate all the same people and groups that King hates then because I don't see what there is to get out of it otherwise.
Are you talking about the weird references (or just blatant name drops) of comic creators? I kinda tuned that out, it was just a fine detective series to me, especially in contrast to how Strange Adventures turned out to be.
There was also the whole "Republicans frame Democratic President Robert Redford for attempting to assassinate their candidate Totally-Not-Trump and they are killed by the protagonists for it" part.
>It brought back the JSA.
>It brought back Pa and Ma Kent.
>It retconned Firestorm's origin.
Anything else?
>It brought back Comedian
>It created Manhattan Junior
>It made New52 Manhattans work
>It brought back Comedian
Didn't it just kill him at the end again?
Yep, and with hilarious lack of ceremony. It was so pointless Comedian himself basically complained that he served literally no purpose in the story.
Yes. Honestly he was just there for name dropping. Kinda like Rorchasch returned.
It was Geoff wiping his ass with Watchmen to say frick you to Moore.
Why? Does he have some feud with Moore?
Moore called him an N-word for using a GL story premise Moore created in the 80s as a jumping point for the new Green Lantern run.
Raccoon starts with 'r', anon.
The funniest shit is it was Gibbons idea to tie it all together.
Moore insulted his own artist friend.
Most of Johns run on GL were callbacks to small bits and pieces of Moore's short stories in GL annuals. When Moore heard about it he called DC a bunch of "raccoons raiding my garbage". Nevermind that Moore himself used silver age canon/continuity a LOT in his DC work. After that comment came out though Johns did seem suspiciously hellbent on diluting Watchmen and Killing Joke with his own sequels.
The one thing that came out of Beyond Watchmen I liked was the idea of Earth-1985, where COIE never happened. How awesome would a mini series about that world be with Garcia Lopez drawing it DC Guide style?
Three Jokers was dogshit thought.
>in his DC work
Not just that, many of his other big stories are just taking existing ones and adding shock value to them really.
>where COIE never happened
I'm still not over the Anti-Monitor having a mom he loves enough to rejoin her side during Death Metal.
>the Anti-Monitor having a mom he loves enough to rejoin her side during Death Metal
Wait...what? I didn't read Death Metal but please do not tell me they turned the Anti-Monitor into another "I lost muh family" villain?!?
>idea of Earth-1985, where COIE never happened.
Thats really a good idea. This could become DCs own Age of Apocalypse.
It was better than Before Watchmen at least. Not quality-wise but it was more fun to read a moron try to write a sequel to Watchmen compared to a bunch of mediocre prequels that didn't really reveal much about the characters and generally felt pointless.
The Bendis Legion at the end is the cherry on top of a shit pie.
I thought the Superman wins over Manhattan without a fight was the cherry on top!
Man I can't imagine how Johns felt being told he had to erase the Legion to make way for the Bendis Legion lmao
I wonder how far they got into drawing that two page spread with the actual Legion before changing it into Bendis's shit.
It wasn't even in-continuity, dude.
I liked it
It was basically supposed to set up the DCU post-Rebirth except Johns lost most of his power and status in DC due to being blamed for Justice League's failure and then he also couldn't get issues out on time so the whole thing wound up essentially becoming non-canon or only partially canon.
I genuinely don't understand how you can frick up getting issues out on time this much, even by college student cramming last minute term paper-standards.
Like holy frick it's not as if Johns is drawing, scripting etc everything himself right? There was, notionally, a whole company behind this.
Dawg if the script isn't there the book doesn't get made, that book was Johns's baby through and through
Gary Frank wasn't writing that book, probably wasn't even helping to plot it
Well that's just it, what the frick was so hard about writing the script? Actual fricking fanfiction writers have written longer stories than DoomClock.
>outside of the tachyon
I am sticking hard to the tachyon thing as a reason why he should've been fricked over six ways to Sunday in a setting like DC where every fricking day, there's some mad scientist making a new reality warping machine. To say nothing about all the shit aliens do in space, and how often time and space get wound into knots.
Going from "he can win the Vietnam war singlehandedly and teleport to Mars" to "he can reshuffle the multiverse like a deck of cards, and with his power Batkek can beat up the creator of the multiverse" is Suggsverse-tier no limits fallacy bullshit. Frickssake at the end of Watchmen Manhattan treats the prospect of merely CREATING LIFE like a new experiment even he with his foresight is unsure about.
Johns thought he had the pull to make everything wait for him while he went off to play Hollywood mogul, simple as
In reality, Didio and Lee just moved on to King, and then when he flamed out spectacularly to Snyder as the lead writer
>King
>Williams
>Snyder
I know Johns got too big for his britches, but I seriously wonder what the frick Didio and Lee were thinking here.
I think the Justice League/power struggle thing sapped a lot of energy Johns had. Likely shit like Bendisboot Legion was going to happen whether Doomsday Clock was on time or not. So something he'd been seeding for a while now got completely upended by some hotshot from another company (a guy he had issues with at Marvel to boot) is given the keys to the kingdom and decides he's going to do his own thing.
Not that I like Johns as a writer (I don't) but it's pretty obvious that the whole thing caused him to be mentally and emotionally checked out and he kind of shambled around for a few years until he finally left.
That would explain a lot. Bendis' writing is so braindead I can't even imagine what working with the actual guy must be like.
This
I'm 50/50 on Johns but he was definitely making a power play to get in on the film/tv side of things at the cost of fulfilling his comic commitments. Also apparently he had a falling out with Didio as well who got tired of him trying to be Mr. Hollywood. So he ended up getting his little Stargirl series but after that he wasn't welcome at DC comics and Gunn didn't pick him to be on his brain trust (but Tom King is ok?!?) so he took all his DC reboot pitches (Atomic Knight, GI Robot) and hoping his brand can get him a Mark Millar deal with somebody.
Friendly reminder Johns and Bendis are buds.
They had one good idea and then lost track of what to do with it.
Geoffy got so assblasted by my comment he not only told me to 'frick off', he got a janny to defend his girlish honour. Swell guy, Geoffy.
What was the point of Doomsday Clock? Was it really just a stepping stone for DC to introduce Convergence and Rebirth?
Convergence was before Doomsday Clock and only done to put books out while DC moved offices. It was basically 99% filler outside of the Superman stuff.
Geoff Johns stroking his ego and trying to cement himself as a legend instead of just a slop man.
DC wanting to make a quick buck on the Watchmen franchise as usual and Johns wanting to stroke his ego as a "real" comic book writer
It was supposed to be DC's next Big Thing.
But the continuous delays killed it.
It was a cool Superman story wrapped inside a garbage Watchmen followup tasked with solving DC's moronic continuity yet again