Where did it go so wrong? How would you have fixed it?
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RIP DCEU (2013-2024)
Where did it go so wrong? How would you have fixed it?
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You can’t fix what was fricked before conception.
MOS was a very good template, them putting Batman in the sequel was where it all went wrong instead of just making a proper sequel and then a Batfleck solo setting up BvS.
Bvs was ok imo, but the execs didn’t get why Superman would fight Batman and added in the dark side blob guy or whoever to the plot and that’s where it really became shit.
Just a movie exec tampering mess.
Not that we can trust Goyer tbh
BvS was very kino until the final fight, that is true. Also, Gal's casting was where things went off the rails, her movie did well but let's be honest. Picking her was a nepo move, otherwise Emily Blunt or Jaime Alexander would have been WW as was heavily rumored. Batfleck was kino overload and should have had his own solo before BvS cause otherwise it falls flat if this movie is the introduction.
The point of no return was Justice League, that is fact. Before that, it could have easily been salvaged.
Gal herself was a bad casting but I appreciated the thought process. An unknown actress who doesn't distract you from the character and who has a exotic look like what they go for with Bond girls. I even liked her accent, it suited the character's foreign nature to the humans. If Gal was a better actress and a little more muscular she would have been perfect.
>MOS was a very good template
Why do people keep saying MoS was anything but hot garbage? It's a terrible movie and it makes a terrible starting point for your franchise. A dour, miserable symphony of death and destruction starring Superman of all people is a terrible idea. Zack Snyder: Great at visuals, terrible at ideas.
It's like the MCU starting with Infinity War.
Truth is WB and DC Comics are both incompetent and were always trying to catch up to the MCU and failing miserably because Snyder had an idea for his universe but Geoff Johns and whatever suit in charge of WB had another.
>"Oh, Marvel is doing Civil War? Zack! What do you have to compete with that?" "Why Sir, we could have Batman and Superman duke it out in the very second entry of our cinematic universe!" "Brilliant Zacky!" "Oh and I'm also planning on killing Superman in the end of the movie" "What?"
All those words, and you can't even explain what makes MoS a bad starting point.
Well, my esteemed ESL, if you can't figure out what is being said in that post, it's your problem not mine.
It's not a Superman movie. It's an "alien from outer space has superhuman powers fights equally strong superhuman aliens, destruction ensues" movie. Henry Cavill looks like Superman more than anyone ever has but he certainly doesn't act like him. His actions, demeanor, and overall personality are not based on any decent Superman story I've ever read. At least not one that wasn't from an Elseworlds story. Pa Kent is terrible, Ma Kent is alright I suppose. Michael Shannon is a great Zod (Snyder excels at the casting process, after all). But it's 2 hours of an emo, moppy guy with powers struggling to find his way into the world, puts his suit for 2 minutes then helps destroying Metropolis and Smallville, then kills his enemy. Good effects but not much else.
Frick that.
Henry only took the Superman role because he missed out on a role he is more suited for, James Bond. Confusingly, to Daniel Craig of all people. He took it because he'd been at it long enough and wanted a big role but it was second choice. If he had to choose, he'd go for Bond as would anyone.
I don't doubt Superman as a big role but his career always will be defined by missing out on Bond in 2005.
It's a shame because he seems to be a really stand-up guy irl and WB (and subsequently, James Gunn) really did him dirty. Hopefully his WoW goes well for him.
The only actor I like and it's true he's been dealt shitty cards nonstop. Looking back, he'd probably pass on Superman knowing how it went but who knows. Warhammer seems way too ambitious but it's a passion project.
The central premise of man of steel is pa kent being afraid for his invincible son. There is nothing on earth that is a threat to him yet kent senior is trying to “protect” clark by making him into a coward, afraid to act. Extrapolated, it seems dad’s motivation is to ensure his invincible son is mentally crippled so he doesn’t have to live in a world where he is so emasculated, that jonathan isn’t afraid for his son, he’s afraid of his son, so his attempts to “protect” clark are actually just attempts to protect himself, his ego, his place in the world, making Jonathan Kent a mirror of zod, a villain on par with lex luthor.
Pa Kent does not have access to 80 years of Superman comics to know his son’s power set and what’s expected of him
Zack Snyder did.
He also shouln't be moronic and/or commit suicide.
The other iterations of papa kent didn’t have comic knowledge either, and despite that, didn’t act like cowardly morons dead set on mentally crippling their son
The way Snyder SHOULD have written the story was that Pa Kent actively taught Superman to be a hero, to be heroic, save people etc. Try to hide your identity but don't ever let people be harmed if you can help it. And most importantly don't kill people, because justice is them having to face the law of the human world, not being murdered by a space alien. If that was set up, Supes having to kill Zod at the end would actually mean something and not just be an asspull. And Pa Kent being heroic would have made us like the character and feel bad when he dies (to something less ridiculous than a fricking tornado.)
>The way Snyder SHOULD have written the story was that Pa Kent actively taught Superman to be a hero, to be heroic, save people etc.
That goes agaisnt the very point of the movie, and the movie was written by Nolan and Goyer, not Snyder. Snyder wrote Wonder Woman and Justice League.
>Superman being heroic goes against the point of the movie
Gee, why was MoS bad, guys? I just don't get it
No, you moron. Pa Kent forcing any choice on Superman goes agaisnt the point of the movie. Throughout the Snyder's trilogy the whole theme is about Superman having the freedom of choosing his path, in contrast with the villains that wants to rob everyone of their free will.
That's moronic and so are you. Pa Kent teaching Clark to actually be a hero isn't "forcing" his choices any more than teaching him to hide and telling him to watch him die is.
Yes, it is because Pa Kent is presuming Clark even wants to be a hero.
Ah so Pa Kent should teach Clark to not use his powers for good, which completely goes against his character. Right, got it.
Completely goes against his character in what way? Pa Kent now is fricking Yoda?
MoS is more respectful and faithful to the original comics, which were written by the actual creators of the character than all the other fanfics published by DC Comics.
There's a big difference between telling a kid "hide your powers until you're ready" (and even then, still telling him to use them) and telling a grown man "Hey don't save a busload of kids and also watch me die to save the fricking dog when you could easily save me"
Snyder fans are so fricking delusional and I'm glad this shit died
>everything after the original is just fanfic
Typical Snyder normie
It is, though.
Nope. I know you don't read them, but that's not how comics works.
>don't teach your kids to help people because that presumes that they want to help people
You're the kind of midwit moron that Snyder was banking on to buy movie tickets.
Nolan didnt write shit, he just pitched an IDEA of what a modern Superman movie should be, the one who wrote the script was Goyer. Also you do know that directors can literally do whatever the frick they want with a script, right?
Nolan wrote parts of the story, together with Goyer, yes. There are interviews about this shit that you can easily Google.
Nolan for example is the reason why the Krypton sequence is so big, because he was more interested in the sci-fi aspects about this alien culture than the proper superheroics.
Nolan also is the reason why Clark only becomes Superman after being outed by Zod, because Nolan hates the idea of Superman acting as a superhero on his own. He thinks it makes the character selfish and vain, because in his mind Superman is essentially outing himself as an alien - something that according to him have major world-wide repercussions - just for attention.
I can understand why people don't like BvS, but not MoS, what was wrong with it?
>stop, my invincible son
>dumbest death scene in capeshit
>Zod's plan makes zero sense and is just a vehicle for big effects and destruction
>emo Supes
>dildo escape pods
>not only does Superman, who does not kill, mill Zod, he blows up the ship containing all the Kryptonian fetuses
>Pa Kent says he shouldn't have saved a bus full of children
It is an Action Comics movie not a Superman movie. The movie doesn't have what makes Superman timeless.
Gal was ok. Could have been much much worse.
Main problem was the lack of focus and a person to push the projects. I watched the Flash and it was multiverse done right but it came way too late.
>It is an Action Comics movie not a Superman movie
I agree with that. I don't see why that's bad. That's like complaining that a Ninja Turtles movie is more like the comic than the cartoons, or a Batman movie is more like Adam West than Year One. They can both exist. The biggest problem with DC fans is insisting their preferred version of the character is the only version. They've been around for almost a century, there isn't only one version whether you like it or not
It's reasonable to expect Superman to be Superman
He's an alien raised on Earth first, then he decides to become Superman, he's not Superman out of the box
He never becomes Superman in MoS
So you're not allowed to tell a story where Clark Kent isn't Superman yet?
Of course you can. Just tell a good one
No true Scotsman, fine
You shouldn’t use words/phrases when you don’t know what they mean.
Projecting
>does it again
You basically did a “no u.”
He’s the son of two farmers first and foremost.
>MOS isnt goyslop capeshit, its a alien invasion sci fi
and thats why its kino
Civil War was made because of BvS, not the other way around.
It went wrong when they tried to make a Superman movie in the vein of “the dark knight”
Just put out Zack's version of Justice League in 2016 (a 2'15" cut), home video extended cut, fire him, hard reboot
>MOS was a very good template
It seems you can't be fixed either.
MOS made the DCEU dead on arrival. I remember being hyped to see it before it came out, because it looked like it was going to be a more "personal" serious Superman story and not just the corny Reeves stuff. Like still heroic but focusing on how Superman feels and what not.
Then you watch the movie and it's the most edgy moronic crap you've ever seen put to screen. Zac Snyder outted himself as a manchild obsessed only with 'splosians and edgy crap, with only a surface level care about character, plot, themes, etc. Even worse than Michael Bay in that aspect because at least with Bay the women and explosions were sexy. Snyder doesn't even do that particularly well.
Frick MOS and frick you shills who keep trying to push this meme. The stop my invincible son meme is the perfect encapsulation of why MOS sucks - it's nonsensical and moronic. Also Russell Crowe needs to be kept far, far away from any movie requiring a serious character. He overacts like no tomorrow. He is best in those movies like the one where he plays the road rage guy. A role where he can go overboard and it adds, not detracts from the movie. Although to be fair likely Snyder's direction to the actors in MOS was shit. I mean Cavill's Superman is like an alien robot, and yes he is an alien, but the point of Superman is that he is essentially Goku from DB - a super powerful genocidal alien monster that loves humans and wants to protect them.
Reminder.
'Enter the knight' sounds like a gay porn parody of BvS.
them trying to rush the process to catch up with Marvel didn't help but it wasn't the only issue. Snyder being a moron was a big problem too, ironically so was when they realized that he's a moron mid-voyage and tried to right the ship with Whedon (at that point they would have been better off just sticking to what they had started)
As your parents have no doubt told you
I would've let Zack dowhatever he wanted, his plans involved a reboot anyway, so in case of 5 flops in a row (which I genuinely don't think would've been the case), the DCEU could change its formula earlier than this frankenstein-like organization
Pretty much, Zack had a vision that included a reboot and kept the captive audience. WB fricked up.
Why are people now wondering what went wrong? Man of steel was ok, but then they immediately fricked up with bvs and suicide squad and never recovered.
>Suicide Squad
that movie was a huge financial success and a bit of a cultural phenomenon with youngsters. don't see what was so disastrous about it. yes, it was pretty shit but then again so is most slop. why do movie studios care more about some lame shut-in movie critics than the people watching their movies?
This. SS had a much bigger cultural impact than most of MCU did even if it got bad reviews
One character design looking good isn’t “cultural impact”
SS , MoS and BvS would have all made a billion if they had good legs. They had terrible word of mouth after the opening weekend
The main issue is that every film felt like a first draft.
>rise
when the frick did that happen?
This. If a modern Superman doesn't make a billion, then you've fricked up from the start.
By leaving Snyder alone. He had a plan. Studio meddling ruined this.
This. Snyder is not an incredible filmmaker though and the movies would have probably been of various quality, but at least there would coherence between themselve, with a real foreshadowing in bvs and a slow build towards jl3 with the dark timeline, it would have been kino to see this on screen.
>How would you have fixed it?
By framing it as a 12-issue arc in movie form. That takes about 5 movies with a reboot at the end.
These execs wanted a gajillion movies to milk.
>video essay
Fricking have a nice day
they saw the success marvel had with the avengers and tried to go too big too fast to have their own big team up movie, instead of planning and building it over a few more years.
needed to build up the world and characters before blowing it's load on batman vs superman and the death of superman in the second movie
I don't know why Aquaman 2 is getting so much shit, it's more or lesson the same level of the first one, it's ok by the genre's standards.
>I don't know why Aquaman 2 is getting so much shit,
It's not? Barely anyone even talks about it. At all. Haven't seen one single bad opinion about it. Or a good one. Or an opinion in general. It's just flying under the radar as people are more interested in something else.
it's got very low critics score on RT. audience's is too high tho. it's a solid 6 imo
rt only allows audience reviews of theatrical releases if you buy a ticket through fandango and doesn’t allow ratings under 7/10
I dont get how the animated DC pumps out kino but the live adaptations suck complete ass.
>I dont get how the animated DC pumps out kino
Because you don't need a budget of $500 million to adapt Crisis on Infinite Earths. Or Flashpoint. Or Court of Owls. Or Hush. Etcetera.
Are you joking? DC hasn't made a good animated film in a decade.
>filtered
bait
Man of Steel. Correct me if I'm wrong but apparenly Snyder was the only one willing to take the helm of the DCEU project, meaning it was doomed from the start.
>Snyder was the only one willing
tbh I think it's more that he was the only one available at the time, and they needed to start production soon otherwise they'd have to pony up extra cash for the movie rights
it started with a bad Superman take. it was wrong from the start
Make movies for kids, not for adults. It's fricking Batman and Superman for frick's sake.
but Batman said FRICK, and that validates me as an adult who likes mature stuff
Batman should hardly ever speak.
Way to show you're a normie
Batman shouldn't speak.
You shouldn't either.
I'm not speaking. I'm typing.
Batman shouldn't speak. He's the night.
Zip it, normie.
Bite me, zoomer. Batman doesn't talk and I'll not hear otherwise.
It's a good thing your take is so basic and moronic you'll never have it in any meaningful adaptation.
Why should Batman talk? He shouldn't talk. He should be a mystery. A menacing threat. When you talk in the middle of the night, does the night talk back at you? No!
Just shut the frick up already.
Exactly. That's exactly what people told Batman the first time Batman came around. Batman was talking and talking and talking and he wasn't scary at all. The homie commissioner Gordon was like "yo Bats you shouldn't talk" and Batman took his advice.
>Where did it go so wrong?
Allowing Hack Snyder to do his thing instead of copypasting some of the good DCAU movies. If the source material is good and Sneeder is only allowed to colour between the lines then shit's great.
Kept Hack Snyder the frick out of it
Snyder is a cuck who sacrificed his daughter to the israelites, that's what went wrong.
Really?
Adopted daughter
I would never have let Snyder near a script or have any casting decisions
This. It never stood a chance. Henry was good so was most of MOS, Ben was good (preferred Bale), the rest were fricking horrible. I always thought the casting should have been
Chris Pine - Hal Jordan
Ryan Gosling - Barry Allen
Emily Blunt - Diana
Nikolaj Coster Waldau - Aquaman
Oh and bring back Bale by giving him money to shut his mouth and act. Bale and Cavill would have been a great combo.
Funny, because the movies he had an involvement were the only profitable ones.
Still amazes me that a fricking Batman vs Superman movie made less than a billion dollars
Compared to the recent ones that tried to follow the MCU formula with the constant jokes and humor.
It'll be hilarious if the upcoming DC movies end up all flopping as well.
Except for Aquaman these were still failures considering the IP, dishonest shill
What IP?
Superman was never that successful as a outside of TV shows.
Wonder Woman was seen as a corny TV show.
Batman was the only true successful IP but audiences were eager on more Bale.
Zack
Snyder
Too many nigs, not enough good story telling. Too many cooks. Too many nigs.
Watching Army of the Dead and Rebel Moon makes it evident Zack Snyder shouldn't be allowed to make more movies. He's not only not getting better he's getting worse.
>Where did it go so wrong?
When dumbasses complained that BvS wasn't enough like Deadpool.
Wat
Depends how you define success. You could indeed argue that it was DOA because of the tone of Man of Steel which immediately reduces its mass audience appeal. But I definitely think studio meddling that the main culprit because at least Synder’s plan would of had some sort of coherence and everything would’ve made sense.
>How would you have fixed it
By never getting Snyder involved. It was a doomed franchise anyways because the management at Warner Bros was a disaster at this time and it only got worse as the 2010s went along. It could've been Nolan doing MoS and Warner Bros constant shuffling of management and executives would've still led to instability and inconsistencies with the universe.
Christopher Nolan PRODUCED and WROTE Man of Steel. Even then Nolan got THE FRICK OUT the moment the WB execs started pestering him about including Christian Bale as Batman in a post-credits tease at the end of the movie.
So you're more than right.
It went wrong the moment it started, only reason it went on for so long was thanks to Marvel, it was peak capeshit years
What they should've done is not hire Snyder and realize that there was only room for ONE capeshit universe, not two
Should've made standalone movies, that way they would've capitalized on capeshit while not worrying about maintaining a cinematic universe
All shareholders and investors care about is doing what the competition is doing but better. That's also why there are so many Fortnite and Game of Thrones clones.
If this post ends in repeating numbers, the Gunnverse will fail even harder than the Snyderverse.
not ape marvel and commit to more adult movies. they hired sneeder for a reason but he was wrong for superman and wrong as a leader. you can have him direct but not write and take care of the whole universe. man of steel for example is just wrong.
>rise
Is pretending to like bvs a meme?
>Rise
I mean.....did it? The only hits were first Wonder Woman and the first Aquaman and the follow ups immediately flopped.
I wish they would have made at least 1 nice, thorough Batman story using Ben Affleck.
highlight of this universe has been the MOS trailer
all downwards after that
Kill every MCU fan expecting constant jokes and levity