What went so terribly wrong? Back in 2012, everyone was so excited about it (even on Cinemaphile), people were writing that this series would define a new age of comics, that it would be the Watchmen or Sandman of the 2010s. And then, by mid-2014, it was as if everyone had already forgotten about it and stopped reading and caring about it. People on forums (other than Cinemaphile) still discuss Vaughan's other comics like Y: The Last Man and Ex Machina (sometimes), but they rarely discuss Saga, as if it never even existed. How did it happen? Why did it happen? Did its quality drop sooner than most people expected?
It's been terrible since the first issue.
I'm too lazy to search the archives now, but I remember that most of the Cinemaphilemrades were up in arms about it, and this craze lasted for about a year or so, and then suddenly everyone stopped caring for some reason.
The money for guerilla marketing ran out
You're most likely right, but Cinemaphile generally has/had shit taste.
Honestly yeah. Never liked anything Brian Vaughan has made.
Same, he says it's not the case but his comics have always felt like he's writing with a TV adaptation in mind and it takes me right out
I'm 90% sure he made Saga have such gross moments specifically to dismiss this accusations.
Skottie brought it back in late 2022, to avoid spoilers revival Issue # 7 resets everything back to the original status quo in the worst way possible when the point of the revival was to have Adult Gert as the protagonist.
it was too gay
Being generous, constant hiatuses breaking the flow leaving it hard to leave an impression as to most people it's a story that just peters off
Being less generous, it was always a mediocre book carried by a desire for anything other than capeshit, but ultimately amounting to Vaugn's Star Was that FRICKS, it's basically a step above Zack Snyder in that characters are atleast realized with personalities even if we're constantly just hopping from weird cool idea to weird cool idea without really elaborating or trying to make sense of it all. Once you lose the momentum, that because more abundantly clear, and "our book has cursing, abortions, and trannies!" just doesn't hold one's attention as much anymore.
They also killed every good character left right before the hiatus and the new stuff about mom working at space Amazon and the kids doing hoodrat shit is fricking boring.
>people were writing that this series would define a new age of comics
It kind of did, but not in any good ways. Every other sci-fi or fantasy series Image publishes these days feels like it’s trying to mimic the tone of Saga.
This was basically what I got out of it after reading it for the first time. It’s just a basic sci-fi opera setting but with more try hard edge.
Should have gone full porno.
Hiatuses lasted too long
Still in a better position than current I Hate Fairyland
Wait, I thought that series ended?
It seems like it still sells well but the hiatuses killed the discussion
Saga was supposed to drawn in a new generation of readers who were totally going to start reading other cool new independent books, but what actually happened is most of Image's catalog was awful so Saga fans pretty much just stuck with Saga until the 4 year hiatus, at which point they basically all forgot about the series (and for the best because the past two arcs have been awful).
>Back in 2012, everyone was so excited about it (even on Cinemaphile), people were writing that this series would define a new age of comics
It's been over a decade, anon. You should know what astroturfing and shilling looks like by now. Saga was just ahead of the curb so it wasn't a noticeable yet.
After it was verified, with actual hard data and not just twitter and wishful thinking, that its fanbase was mostly women it was over.
The plot got stuck spinning its wheels forever, tons and tons and tons of interpersonal drama
It basically became a soap opera
>long fricking hiatus
>the last issue before said hiatus killed off the best character AND the dad
it's not that complicated.
I've never been able to see what anyone sees in Saga. The art and designs are bland and the writing reminds me of that Hazbin Hotel where they just swear at eachother on top of lame soap opera garbage.
Brian K Vaughan seriously can’t write proper drama, it always feels completely rushed and ham fisted. The excessive edge feels like it’s there to try to convince most people that the writing is somehow more groundbreaking than it actually is.
>What went so terribly wrong? Back in 2012, everyone was so excited about it
It was the age of pushing the idea "comics are more than cape/marvel/dc".
Aside from it being troonyslop of the 10s, the "Image Renaissance" just died. Same with the "McConaissance" over at Cinemaphile, to tie it to the time we're talking about. It became apparent that most indie books were generic sci-fi/fantasy schlock and were designed as tv/movie pitches. Speculators hunted the #1s for the next Walking Dead, but weren't there for the rest. If no studios came calling, then the creators abandoned the project and that was it. Irregular schedules were a constant. So what were you rewarded with? Adding it to your pull list, waiting 4 months for an issue, then after another 3 they'd go one another "hiatus", and around issue 12 they'd just stop. That's the fate of most indie books. Hickman still hasn't put out the last few Black Monday Murders issues. Saga specifically wasn't inventive. It was Star Wars: Yeah, We FRICKING CURSE, b***h! Edition, but with a YA overcoat and more explicit Fantasy elements. It was utterly soulless.
But beyond that, look at Image now. Remender is doing a
>white peepo are... LE NAZEES and OY VEY IT'S ANODAH SHOAH!
and also
>heh, religion is fricking stupid and the Pope diddles... BUT IT'S KEWL CYBERPUNK!
What am I supposed to be interested in? Where's Fraction? Gillen and Hickman are back at Marvel. Is there even anyone else working from the "new blood" that came in during the 00s/10s and were supposed to change comics? What even is after them, even if people here dislike them? Snyder? Zdarsky? Hickman and Gillen might be "tv pitch" level +, but at least they had that "+". Snyder, Zdarsky and the current crop are all literal bottom of the barrel trash capewriters. McKay is the "best" out of them and that's because he's able to write normal capestories without inserting trannies or making it about slice of life bullshit. And the fact that this is the peak, is just sad.
It's all over. This is the very end.
Kek this post is legitimately depressing if you lived through this era. So many promising creators and comics abandoned because everyone was writing to get adaptations. Anyone got good image or indie recs?
makes me glad I only ever pirate comics
if it stopped getting updated I just assumed the people hosting the site were just lazy shits, not that the actual writer was baiting for a shit tv show
The Walking Dead and its consequences have been a disaster for the indie comics race
>The Walking Dead and its consequences have been a disaster for the indie comics
This isn't even a joke either.
I think Millar is more to blame, atleast Walking Dead was Kirkman lucking out. Millar openly said what he was doing, and gave zero shits if they just stole the name of his comic and didn't adapt it at all.
Kick Ass didn't turn every American indie comic into a pitch. The Walking Dead did.
There's some good info there if you ignore the troony obsession
Yes. It’s a shame, for every good, sane point the average Cinemaphile user makes it often has to have some /misc/ schizo rant shoehorned into it.
>you're right but you're rude, therefore you're wrong
why is Cinemaphilemblr like this?
I didn't say you're wrong. I'm just mocking you for being unable to make a post without bringing up some /misc/ tier rant. Having a troony character is the least of Saga's problems.
To be fair is it really an obsession if the book does just have a random troony hanging dong in one of the spreads who then becomes a major character?
He's never read a single issue of Saga in his life, he just saw someone being mean to his discord pedophile buddies and had a stroke
Then he just guessed right about everything else? Maybe we should be utilizing /misc/'s schizophrenic seer abilities.
>le hecking schizo
Why can't Cinemaphilemblr learn new insults? Creatively bankrupt just like modern comics
You’ve used Cinemaphilemblr three times already
>iphone filename
That's how you know it's good info
Man that comment about most indie comics just being tv/movie pitches really hits home for me
I remember thinking this backing during the 10's and people said I was crazy, good to know I wasn't alone
I’ve been thinking about this a lot more recently. When was the last time a comic was actually treated like a comic? Every modern comic has to have scenes upon scenes of people talking framed like they’re filming a tv show, completely forgetting that moments like that require things like acting and sound to keep things interesting if they’re just going to be shown as flatly as possible. What happened to “Wally Wood’s 22 panels that always work”?
>Everything is a tv pitch
You are correct about that. It's not unlike the 90's speculator boom where everyone wanted their shitty comic to be turned into a cartoon.
The fact that Savage Dragon had a cartoon makes me wince.
>the 90's speculator boom where everyone wanted their shitty comic to be turned into a cartoon
This is something that people overlook about the speculator era. One of the major reasons it happened at all was because of cartoons.
I agreed with you up until the Pope. I don't give a flying frick about the Pope.
>It became apparent that most indie books were generic sci-fi/fantasy schlock and were designed as tv/movie pitches. Speculators hunted the #1s for the next Walking Dead, but weren't there for the rest. If no studios came calling, then the creators abandoned the project and that was it. Irregular schedules were a constant. So what were you rewarded with? Adding it to your pull list, waiting 4 months for an issue, then after another 3 they'd go one another "hiatus", and around issue 12 they'd just stop. That's the fate of most indie books.
This is the reason why American indie comics don't sell. It's not any of the reasons why Cinemaphile claims. It's this alone.
BKV has always been everything detractors claim Ennis is but worse.
Ennis is actually the edgelord comic writer I like the most. He just seems like a pretty down to earth guy outside of what he writes and I find even his worst books to be entertaining most of the time.
No one said you were wrong. Just keep your /misc/ propaganda out of proper discussion.
>you're right but /misc/ lives free in my head, therefore you're wrong
why is Cinemaphilemblr like this?
I guess we’ve reached the part of the thread where the schizo derailment starts
>What went so terribly wrong?
That implies something went right.
I spent all of 2012 declaring that Saga wasn't even the best scifi comic of 2012.
>Prophet
yeah that's one i read from beginning to end. that was good
Their movie/tv deal fell apart so they quit the book.
Because the only thing it does is shock content issue from issue, ranging from showing nudity, sex, every other couple is gay, trannies, nude trannies, nude trannies having sex, or two page spreads of giant dragons self fellating their 15 feet long penises. Meanwhile the story is all just a guess of which major character gets killed in this story arc, rinse and repeat. If I wanted a poorly written porno book about gay couples and nude dick chicks, I'd check exhentai for the appropriate tags.
So you can't invest in the story as it really isn't going anywhere, you can't invest in the characters because there's a 50% chance they get killed in any issue, you have a frickload of leftist propaganda (the only heterosexual couple were basically the main characters, transsexuals being used as an allegory for the main character being a halfbreed, etc), random shock pages every time, and it's not even good as a porn book because that stuff is only there to shock you.
tl;dr: the book outstayed its welcome.
This is what I mean by "the edge feels like it’s there to try to convince most people that the writing is somehow more groundbreaking than it actually is”. It’s progressive attitudes to sex and mildly grandiose tone seems to convince the average casual comic reader into thinking Saga isn’t just mediocre slop.
sole focus on idpol is not leftist, it's liberal
>What went so terribly wrong?
BKV failed to plan ahead so a big chunk of the comic is just him running on fumes.
I read a couple of issues, it's boring and uninteresting.
I remember the last a read was when the femprotagonist had a miscarriage and they went to abortion town so that she wouldn't die of sepsis.
Did it become shit afterwards?
Always was
Really?
vaughan kinda lost me with the tv guy kidnapping the baby prince. not sure what the point of that story line was, and it hasn't changed the main tv prince's character
also when characters are trying to claim "women suffer most in war" like some hillary clinton shit, when men are the ones fricking dying in war, vaughan is missing the mark
i'm pretty sure i stopped reading after the gila monster dragon thing sucking itself off.
the only things i was interested in was the baby seal and gay fish guys but the whole thing was becoming too random/derivative
Is it still on hiatus? I think the last two years been six issues per year. Impossible to have decent conversations about a story where nothing happens all fricking year. Rest in peace, characters I've adored for years to be unceremoniously killed off for shock. I feel nothing.
>Two main characters are the worst part of the series
>Kill off any character that's interesting
>Hiatus that spanned years
Y The Last Man is only ever remembered for its ending really. No one ever talks about the astronauts arc, or the rotating cast of women Yorick fricks, or the moronic Amazons plotline. It's literally just the ending.
Saga is all tease and no fricking payoff. It's what happens when you extend a story over an infinite amount of time to the point that every likable character dies, nothing is ever actually resolved, and each issue is just some new contrived reason for the shitty lives of this family to somehow get even fricking worse. But without an ending, there's no resolution, no catharsis, nothing to leave a lasting impact on the reader beyond just waiting two years for the next chapter. Here's every goddamn arc in Saga:
>Growing up can be hard
>Dad dies
>Mom gets twelve abortions
>Daughter sells crack
>Robot Junior gets brutally murdered by a centaur called Hatefricker with fifteen wieners
>And that's how I entered high school
>See you in 2026
It's a glorified soap opera where the only real selling point now is shock value and fantastical imagery.
>Stopped reading after Prince Robot was killed
Yeah, frick this comic