> Bleeding Cool is getting the hot gossip from the bars exploding around New York Comic Con, that DC Comics is going to be announcing something big. The next stage in their publishing plan is to follow the current Dawn Of DC initiative. It has been compared in gossip to the Marvel Ultimate Universe. And it may see Scott Snyder, Batman, Justice League and Swamp Thing writer, and showrunner of DC's Dark Metal events, to make his return to the DC Comics. This is after setting up many creator-owned projects across Dark Horse, IDW, ComiXology, Substack and Image Comics, as well as the upcoming Wytches TV show back in production. And that this new DC publishing initiative would involve a new reality for DC Comics characters to play out in.
>Well, it looks like Marvel may have some competition over at DC. Whatever this DC Ultimate Universe-style publishing line is, it is expected to be bigger and more comprehensive than Marvel's Ultimate line was – or will be. And it will also encapsulate a lot of classic DC Comics continuity, reshaped and refigured for the modern day, and emphasising creative freedom. Earlier attempts to mirror the Ultimate Universe with the Earth One graphic novel didn't go entirely as planned. But this… whatever it is… is meant to be very different.
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/nycc-bar-gossip-dc-ultimate-universe-scott-snyder/
Someone also pointed out that Snyder made this Earth Alpha bullshit at the end of Death Metal which replaced Earth 0 as the center of the Multiverse. That plotline was never resolved but I bet that was him setting this up for the future, and now he’s finally coming back to do it.
didn‘t read
don‘t care until american comic stop pushing woke shit
The damage has been done. New 52 was their last chance and they blew it.
I might check this out. Capeshit can be good but the almost century old continuity is a bother. There's very little talent in comics right now, particularly in writing so I don't have high expectations but I might give it a shot.
Nice Reddit image you homosexual
Instead of rebooting the main line they should just do Ultimate Universes every other decade or so to make jump on points. Dunno if Snyder is the right guy for the job but I suppose you need a big name these days.
Wouldn't be a bad idea. Just have one universe where it all ends and you can reset it endlessly for new generations. Kinda like how they keep rebooting movies or cartoons.
Finally
I'll check it out if this it is insulated from the rest of the DC Multiverse. please no more multiverse shenanigans snyder, I know that you can write a good, focused, self-contained story
Didio tried to make Ultimate DC happen multiple times (All Star, Earth One, New 52) and it was a dud every time. The current management isn't even Didio-competent.
>The current management isn't even Didio-competent
God can you imagine how bloated and redundant this is gonna get?
Knight Terrors 2: Electric Boogaloo
All Star Superman and Batman & Robin are great, Batman and Wonder Woman Earth Ones are also good and New 52 had plenty of good books. So you’re wrong on ALL accounts.
Those books were good, sure, but it was Didio himself who said they were duds given his goals.
>From the moment I started at DC [...] I was always trying to get to that spot where we can sort of restart the wheel and really create this entry point for everybody to jump on, and contemporize our characters.
>Marvel had such success with [Miles Morales and the Ultimate line], and I kept on pointing to that. I thought to myself, We needed that. I tried a couple of times — the All-Star line was supposed to be a shot at that, the Earth One books were supposed to be shot at that. They were good as stand-alone concepts, and we got some great work from that, but it didn’t drive a line. And ultimately, the only way it works is if you drive the cohesiveness of the line. We were doing it piecemeal, but to really make an impression, to really catch the attention of the marketplace, you had to do something dramatic. And ultimately, that’s what turned into the New 52.
The search for that evergreen title is a fricking paradox.
The problem people don't understand is that you can't really force evergreen, and you definitely cannot do it with a flimsy foundation as they've done so many times
I also think not enough people realize how much outside cultural factors affected The Ultimate lineup success.
Now I'm not saying 9/11 helped Mark Millar's career but it certainly didn't hurt either.
>All Star Superman and Batman & Robin are great,
They are but the problem is, they not only were so delayed, only one of those actually completed the story (All Star Superman). All Star Batman never got completed. And don't get me started on the other projects that got announced but never got launched (Adam Hughes' All Star Wonder Woman and Geoff Johns and JG Jones' All Star Batgirl)
>Geoff Johns and JG Jones' All Star Batgirl)
Didio and James Robinson running a train on Jones' wife didn't help
I feel like DC, and a Marvel too, can't stretch out their sales between two main lines of books with some Ultimate line again.
Part of what made the original Ultimate Marvel work is that they kept it small. At most it was just four books: USM, UXM, Ultimates, and UF4, occasional mini aside. That’s what needs to be done here. I think an Ultimate DC should be
>Superman
>Batman
>Wonder Woman
And then a team book that isn’t the Justice League to start. Maybe Ultimate Authority to start?
No one cares aboutThe authority except some Gen x nerds
>Part of what made the original Ultimate Marvel work is that they kept it small. At most it was just four books: USM, UXM, Ultimates, and UF4, occasional mini aside. That’s what needs to be done here.
Personally I would've loved have seen more titles
Every other year there seems to be one of these new initiatives to bolster sales, but they fall flaccid the moment readers realizing it's the same shit writers telling the same shit stories.
The Ultimate Universe didn't work for Marvel, why would it work for DC?
The solution is simple: do your job, tell good stories.
>The Ultimate Universe didn't work for Marvel, why would it work for DC?
we doing revisionist history now?
These days I see DC trying to get a new gimmick and this comes to mind.
The Marvel Ultimate universe was mostly fine for the first five-six years, then they started to rotate in cheaper writers and artists, lost focus and it all went downhill rapidly.
You can put the blame on Ultimate's downhill trajectory 100% on Loeb and his desire to be as edgy as Millar while doing something radically diffrerent with no actual follow-up plan on how they'd handle the repercussions.
Loeb fricked up. Should have never been allowed to write immediately after what happened to Sam.
But the cracks were already starting to show before Ultimatum.
>The Ultimate Universe didn't work for Marvel
Okay moron
(With apologies to Taylor Swift)
I have this thing where I get older but just never wiser
My problems aren't just growing bigger, they're starting to balloon
When all my annual company wide disappointments act as yearly jumping off points
All of our customers who stop buying our comics just this week can fill up another large room
I should not be left to my own devices
I just keep raising cover prices and not listen to people advices
Forget going back and doing good comics we'll end up doing another crisis (tale as old as time)
I wake up screaming from dreaming
One day I'll watch Warners executives teaming
to get rid of me and they'll close down company cause they got sick of all my weak political agenda and woke corporate propaganda
(For the last time)
It's me, hi, I'm the problem, it's DC
Just ask anybody, everybody will agree
I'll sleep on fans and anybody left in comic industry who really cares, not that we will ever admit it, that cause of us it's bad out there,
It must be exhausting always being lifelong fan of DC Superheroes.
DC fans are like abused housewives swooning back to defending their abusive husband at every promise of "I'll never hit you again." By far the most pathetic bunch on Cinemaphile
Still better than marveldrones.
No you're not because Marvelgays don't spam the board with their apologism like you do.
Yes they do. They eat up any shit with the Marvel logo on it. You cry about Spider-man 24/7 but you still keep it a best seller and you're even accepting Miles now.
>you
Kek. I'm not a Marvelgay. I'm just pointing out that their presence is more tolerable than yours because they're not actively shilling shit like you do. You're the bottom of the barrel of this shit board, that's just fact.
>I'm not a Marvelgay
Kek, yes you are.
>You're not a DC troon so clearly you're a Marvel gay.
Another brain-dead take. But I wouldn't expect anything else from shilling this shit company.
You're clearly defending Marvel though and you're defending the braindead fans that continue to devour any turd Marvel shits on their plate. You're pathetic.
>You're clearly defending Marvel though
If I did I wouldn't call them gays.
Both Marvel and DC are trash. It just so happens that you're more annoying because you're more vocal in defending your trash.
Comics in general are trash, and Superhero comics are the worst of the worst because they're so devoid of any creativity. It's the same stories being regurgitated over and over again featuring the same garbage characters that's been around longer than my grandparents. The fact that anyone still gives a shit about these IP farms is a mystery to me. At least with cartoons you get new characters and new stories. Frick, even Japs have figured this shit out.
>Madokatroony posting
this is how you know that this homosexual was banned from Cinemaphile and it is a redditor for the obvious reasons
Absolute meltdown
>meltdown
redditroon tourist please
>I wouldn't call them gays.
First day on Cinemaphile? Back to plebit, mcutroony.
Like I said, this shill is just here so people won't talk about the obvious about how Scott Snyder made DC comics worse.
>comics were always bad ergo Scott Snyder did nothing wrong.
Let's go over the facts.
>Scott Snyder is obsessed about his legacy as a writer at DC amd was worried all he'd be known for isnthe court of owls.
>Grant Morrison's multiversity, which people known about for years, was receiving a lot of attention from fans and critics.
>so he undermine Morrison by going to upper management and promising them another blockbuster multiverse series with more tie-ins and variant covers.
>Scott Snyder realize he can basically grift everyone-Morrison, DC comics, the fans-by becoming the DC multiverse architect and ensure DC comics as a whole is seen as a legacy.
>tells readers he's gonna bring the post crisis/pre-flashpoint status quo back.
>tells dan didio this will lead to more titles being created and sold.
>all the while making perpetua, his OC that claims ownership of the entire DC universe.
>then kills continuity forcing everyone-writers and characters- in a limbo state where nothing can be built every again.
tbh killing continuity is the one thing I believe he did right. Way too many bad stories in the 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s obsessed with trying to keep a coherent timeline in impossibly chaotic conditions when the right move was to just simply not care like the golden/silver/bronze age writers/editors.
No you don't understand Scott Snyder didn't solve continuity, in fact he made everything worse. Continuity works like a timeline and with no timeline writers get sloppy with details. We're seeing this right now with DC so it's not even a hypothetical. Without a shared timeline writers can "pick and choose" but what they usually pick is shallow references to the 80s ignoring how they're not even keeping that characterization from the 80s consistent.
You people are why more people aren't reading comics.
I'm sorry but I'm supposed to believe they're gonna read comics more now that there isn't any continuity? Without continuity explaining who these characters are you just made comics 100x more confusing for new readers.
The only thing that should matter is if a story makes sense in and of itself. They don't have to make sense with previous stories that a new reader has never read. If a new reader has to read a previous run to make sense of a new writer's work, they've failed.
>The only thing that should matter is if a story makes sense in and of itself
Which is why you need a shared continuity, because that's what continuity does.
>If a new reader has to read a previous run to make sense of a new writer's work, they've failed.
Why benefit does a writer have from erasing a character's history.
Writers at DC don't read comics. They need a blank slate.
>Writers at DC don't read comics
Morrison did.
Waid did.
Johns did.
Why wouldn't you as a writer read the very material you're gonna write on?
>Why wouldn't you as a writer read the very material you're gonna write on?
This is Jadzia Axelrod. She's a transexual woman writing for DC. Behind her is her shelf. There's no one comic in said shelf.
Jadzia is a terrible writer for sure, but with these standards of yours, you're asking for Rob Liefeld.
>Rob Liefeld has nothing to offer. It’s as plain as bacon on your plate. He has nothing to offer. He cannot draw. He can’t write. He is a young boy almost, I would expect, whose culture is bubble gum wrappers, Saturday morning cartoons, Marvel comics; that’s his culture. Somebody was at his house and came back with a report: There is not a single book in his house — only comic books. I see nothing in his work that allows me to even guess that there’s any depth involved in that person that might come to the fore given time.
There are millions of fans that would that would love write for either Marvel or DC given the opportunity. Especially now with the cinematic universes blowing up and writers becoming celebrities.
So why is it that we get the worst writers?
>There are millions of fans that would that would love write for either Marvel or DC given the opportunity
And they would all be worse. I've seen some of the ideas on Cinemaphile and some of you would be far worse. But by all means, go to writer workshops, go to cons, try to pitch your shit. Hell, take some writing classes, a lot of current writers teach and they can be your way into the industry. Instead you sit all day and b***h and moan on Cinemaphile that the current writers just aren't real fans like you.
I'm not saying that I have to write. But you could literally take a crackhead off the streets and they'd tell you more interesting stories.
But even if you insist. Marvel and DC can afford to hire professional writers. But no, they need the non-binary political activist of color to write for an audience that hates xer.
>the non-binary political activist of color to write for an audience that hates
Those are just the writers in the US. Ever seen a writer's room for a popular tv show? It's worse than what you get in comics and has even more diversity hires.
The pay is shit and editors only hire people they like (who are willing to work for shit pay).
>Siege of Gamorrha
Gomorrha. / (ɡəˈmɒrə) / noun. Old Testament one of two ancient cities near the Dead Sea, the other being Sodom, that were destroyed by God as a punishment for the wickedness of their inhabitants (Genesis 19:24) any place notorious for vice and depravity.
>proceeds to make 1 kind ok comic over the course of 30 years
Are we now desperate for fanboy writers that read nothing but capeshit comics? When did you continuitygays fall so hard that your ideal writers are the Liefelds that never touched a book in their life?
And I know I have to mention this because you people always do this, no, I'm not defending the trans dude, there are way too many trans people in comics as it is but that's a problem with the USA because studies shoe that 25% of youth today identify as gay or trans. That's insane.
He’s a Timmverse fan…
Leah Williams got a blank slate and look what she did.
Continuity keeps new readers away.
Does it really though?
Quantum State DC works just fine for me when the writers are telling entertaining stories. There's only a few of them right now, but that's on account of the sorry state of the industry which predates Death Metal, not the status quo.
>Quantum State DC works just fine for me when the writers are telling entertaining stories.
But they're not, instead they're doing Fire and Ice: Welcome to Smallville.
That book doesn't interest me so I'm ignoring it. I like what Williamson's doing with Superman, Waid with World's Finest, and Rosenberg with Joker.
But notice how none of those benefitted from having continuity destroyed. It's almost like there's zero reason to destroy continuity and every reason not to.
Waid's World's Finest is entirely reliant on the new status quo because it takes place in "the not-too-distant" past but completely ignores New 52/Rebirth continuity in favor of a 10s-era silver/bronze age pastiche.
>Waid's World's Finest is entirely reliant on the new status quo
No it's not, Waid is just retconning the teen titans past in trying to streamline. You didn't need to get rid of continuity to do that, in fact you made everything more difficult by getting rid of continuity to do that.
Batman/Superman and Teen Titans both ignore New 52/Rebirth. And both those books are now current DC canon given Lazarus Planet built off the first arc of World's Finest. But New 52 and Rebirth are also still canon and referenced by other writers, so he didn't retcon anything. The DC Universe now exists in a quantum state.
You can ignore the book itself but you can't ignore the reality the book represents. No continuity might mean a blank slate for writers but it also means writers are encouraged to be "lazy" in the name of creativity.
You trust modern writers with knowing what quality is? Look at what they did to power girl and they were allowed because there is no continuity saying Leah Williams couldn't turn her into Paige Stedler, DC's own Captain Marvel.
This isn't Power Girl's first insecure cringe moment and it will eventually be washed away and returned to the Classic version like all the previous moments.
>it will eventually be washed away and returned to the Classic version like all the previous moments
Without any continuity to her old comics, why would it?
All it takes is some writer/editor who likes the old version better to just make her that version again, just like always.
>All it takes is some writer/editor who likes the old version better to just make her that version again,
Why would they though?
This. That anon is expecting far too much out of the current leadership.
I like Paige, she's just no Power girl though. Would be a good foil for her though, just make those breasts bigger and you got a good cover identity and redemption story for Divine.
>Be worried about being remembered for Court of Owls
>Be remembered for Batkek instead
This is like hiding the shit you took in someone's bed by setting his house on fire.
This. Man managed to do more damage to DC as a setting than Didio in a fraction of the time. It's actually impressive in a horrible, awful way. Like watching someone drink a gallon of piss in one sitting.
>This is like hiding the shit you took in someone's bed by setting his house on fire.
It works because now it's just ash and ruins!
True. At this point, having "comic book writer" on your resume is less reputable than having been an ex-pornstar.
If you weren't a Marvel boy you would've used the more popular "slur" that the other poster used, marveldrones. Trying to imply (insertfanbase)gays is an insult is... questionable. And if you didn't care you would've gracefully bowed out recognizing that both of these companies have some really rabid fans, but no, you keep defending marveldrones because, from the outside, it looks like you are o lne yourself.
>moronic rationalization
Kek
>Meltdown continues
I think you're both scott snyder shills here to make sure no one in this thread focuses too much on why snyder is a terrible writer trying to be a shadow editor in chief.
Wrong, that’s Spidergays
>first All Star
>then Earth One
You know what they say, third times the charm
It will be DCAU Canon edition as a comic.
DC always wanted to do their own canon DCAU universe on comics.
And DCAU Sells, because marvel had the chance in the 90's to make all of their Animated shows one single comic book Universe, and they never cared to do so.
>It will be DCAU Canon edition as a comic.
They literally already have that and no one knows or carea about it because fans are lying idiots.
>ultimate line
Goddamn really?
>Someone also pointed out that Snyder made this Earth Alpha bullshit at the end of Death Metal which replaced Earth 0 as the center of the Multiverse.
Typical Scott Snyder bullshit.
Yeah reward the guy who derailed Grant Morrison multiversity.
I really with Scott Snyder got blacklisted.
i rather have him writing comics than all of the DC lineup right now on batman, power girl and Superman.
He's the one who is entirely responsible for the state DC comics is in right now.
Oh frick no WHY
Snyder and DC are both desperate.
>Batkek returns to destroy DC after powering up in Fortnite
agree is one of the worst modern comic book character even jason aaron prehistoric BC avengers had more charm
Uh is this source even accurate? Who is Bleed cool?
Rich the Leech has been rumor mongering for decades. Historically his DC sources have been more reliable than his Marvel sources.
Can Snyder leave his moronic occult beliefs out of the comics? I can’t stand his “deep” writing. Comics only attracts weirdos nowadays.
>The continuity (or lack thereof) is turning readers away from comics.
>Let's make it even more convoluted!
How about we focus on...I don't know...telling good stories?
God forbid we write characters like actually compelling people and not either spouting inane abstract ideologies or making obscure references to more interesting stories that happened literally decades ago.
But that's exactly what we got now "without continuity" i.e. Fire and Ice: Welcome to Smallville or the current direction Power Girl is in.
>actually compelling people
>defending the current direction of Power Girl
No, industry shill. No.
How is this convoluted? Are you actually moronic?
Stop with the multiverse shit. No one likes it. Tell good stories instead.
Agreed but this isn't multiverse shit, it's just a separate universe because most fans would shit their pants in rage if they did a full on reboot.
Easy jumping on point for new readers. Only way it can get convoluted is if they do crossovers with the main universe but that's an if and even if you want to say it's inevitable because that's just how the industry is, the line itself is NOT convoluted.
>Easy jumping on point for new readers.
New Readers don't go to comic book shops, they go to bookstore.
>Make a wholly self-contained book where you just keep reading volume after volume and don't need to worry about crossovers or line-wide events.
You're just describing how trade paperback collections normally work.
>New Readers don't go to comic book shops, they go to bookstore.
And?
Meaning I find this whole "easy jumping on point for new readers" model of thinking redundant.
How so?
>comics are collected by runs
>they're numbered by volume
>and categorized by author's name
Why are you being obtuse? They keep resetting the numbering in the trades and guess what that does for new readers? And it doesn't matter if it has a vol. 1 on the cover if the contents are full of continuity wank and references to past stories.
>They keep resetting the numbering in the trades and guess what that does for new readers How are you imagining new readers buying comics? I'm imagining people literally just pulling an intersting title from a shelf and reading the synopsis to see if they want to read it. Your idea of new readers seem to be people who both care deeply about continuity but also not at all.
>How are you imagining new readers buying comics?
Same way they buy manga.
So at a bookstore just pulling whatever looks interesting from the shelf then, meaning that's exactly how comic book runs tpbs work.
Yeah but they can stick with a series for longer than 3 volumes and they don't have to worry about renumbering or crossovers.
Same goes for tpb though.
A manga volume is 180 pages of the same story, and if you pick up volume 2 you're going to get a continuation of that story.
With comics you're not going to get either. Writers are on rotation. They write 5 20-page floppies then they introduce another writer. The story gets completely sidelined, the characters behave completely differently.
>Writers are on rotation
Run are collected by authors.
You probably meant to reply to this guy
Using Batman as an example, Snyder's Batman has a clearly defined beginning and end, King's Batman has a clearly defined beginning and end, Tynion's Batman has a clearly defined beginning and end, and Zdarsky's run has a clearly defined beginning and will eventually end. Those are all complete stories they all just happen to start in media res which most people have no problem with (the 60s Batman show, the 1989 movie, and Batman the Animated Series all started in the middle and not the very beginning and none of them had a definite "This is the end of this hero's adventures" ending).
>and end
Not really though.
No not really but also they're not required reading.
All of them reference past events and stories.
Incorrect.
Each and every one of their final issues had a "this is the end of this story" feeling.
>A manga volume is 180 pages of the same story
You make it sound like the story never goes anywhere.
They'll just buy manga. Like everyone else.
>Superheroes has the biggest demographic fall.
We did it boys.
If you're gonna give up then just close shop. If you're serious about competing then compete because right now manga is eating your breakfast, lunch and dinner and you can barely reach up to smell their asses.
TSMT crossboarder moron from f/a/g always come here to shitposting about comicbook dying but when the said company trying go get new reader by creating another universe so you dont have to know lore from 1960s comic book run, Black person still complaining its MUH MULTIVERSE TOO COMPLICATED FOR MY DOUBLE DIGIT IQ BRAIN
Nah man, this is the old heads holding onto continuity with desperation because that's all they have. Look it how mad the Cinemaphilecksuckers get at the mere mention of a reboot, you can blame this on the Cinemaphilessholes.
Mangachads... why are we such bullies?
Synder shills trying to distract you that Scott Snyder hijacked and wrecked the DC universe.
>YOU CAN'T CRITICISE THE INDUSTRY
>YOU CAN'T FRICKING HAVE AN OPINION
>JUST CONSOOM PRODUCT AND GET HYPE FOR NEW PRODUCT
>NO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SETTING IS ABOVE CRITICISM
Is this what domestic abuse victim behaviour looks like?
This isn't about the industry, this is about Scott Snyder.
My bad. I was agreeing with you, and shitting on homosexuals like
engaging in whataboutism to deflect criticism of the industry.
It's pretty fricking annoying that homosexuals have to LARP as experts on selling comic books, or get buttmad at manga, or ramble about Ultimate to talk around the fact that getting Scott Snyder back is the worst decision I can remember in a while by a company that has consistently made nothing but horrible decisions. LIke hiring Bendis. Remember that? Remember when some people were claiming any day now, Jon would be reverted?
I do remember DC hiring Bendis and how Scott Snyder still managed to be worse.
Like I said before. In a horrible, awful way it is genuinely.
GENUINELY.
Impressive.
That Scott Snyder managed to dumpster everything he touched harder than Bendis did. There is genius, there is mediocrity and then there is a level of failure so profound that there has to be something wrong with that man's brain to come up with the ideas he does, present them with a straight face and SOMEHOW sell whatever passes for editorial at DC on the idea that this is totally a good idea.
Snyder's a slasher movie loving meathead, everything he writes makes sense knowing that.
I didn't knew you could grift this hard as a fiction writer but somehow Snyder did it.
>guys good news I got rid of continuity.
>Yay! Thank you so much for doing the exact opposite of what we always claimed we wanted!
>yay! Everything is canon meaning...my favorite stories are back? Kinda?
Seriously. He makes Youngrippa look like an amateur, instead of coasting on hate at the industry he just walks up to the people in charge and sells them on garbage that sounds like a 10 year old came up with it.
The worst thing about Batkek is that he comes across like a very toned down version of a slasher movie villain, with all the most explicit bits filed off and just the general concept that is a 10 year old's idea of Freddy Krueger remaining.
Remember in Death Metal he arranged some zanny ironic punishments for the main Leaguers but seemingly let everyone else keep their costumes, equipment and toiletries considering they showed up looking like they'd just come back from the beauty salon? Maybe there's a makeup artist evil Batman among his crew.
Right after Metal Snyder realize he can just string everyone along by declaring himself Architect, a role that usually takes decades to really get to.
You can see how Snyder left Didio in a lurch by ignoring the new age of heroes imprint that was supposed to be Metal aftermath and instead with the no justice mini which went straight to his justice league.
I wonder if Didio felt fricking stupid towards the end of his tenure at DC, or if he was delusional enough to believe he could still turn things around.
Maybe more relieved then anything else like thank god I don't got this albatross around my neck now.
That would be a reasonable reaction, but this IS the man who spent an ungodly unreasonable amount of time trying to force an entire company to do things his way and only his way.
In that case Didio must've been fricking pissed that Snyder did him dirty like that and forced him out.
Posts like this sounds like virgin rage. Granted I didn't read Snyder's last couple of event comics because I don't read events but his Batman was fine.
>because I don't read events
But you'll defend them?
No? I'm in favor of this line and you can keep your main universe with all their events and decade long continuity.
So this line main sell is what then? The strength of Scott Snyder's ability to get 20 variant covers for each issue?
>So this line main sell is what then?
I'm guessing 3-4 titles that tell stories from the actual beginning and Snyder will probably do Wonder Woman because he's been meaning to write her for years and I won't read it because I don't care about Wonder Woman. Curious about the other titles though.
Why would you be curious about any of the titles though?
I'd like a Superman title that's starts out from the beginning with no marriage and no brat kid. Just back to basics, no crossovers no decades long continuity.
You could've just read New52 Superman.
NTA but why would you when in the end we knew new52superman get fused with postcrisis superman making it just convoluted
Because there were some good stories in there mixed with lousy ones?
>read a romance with Wonder Woman that brings out the worst in both characters, especially during the one arc where Vandal Savage summons a meteor that depowers Clark
>read a bafflingly contrived relationship with Luthor about Luthor essentially blackmailing his way onto the League and then somehow trying to claw the moral highground
>read multiple instances of Clark getting corrupted and generally chimping out like an butthole at everyone close to him
>read a story where he gets into a punchout with Kara over a profound misunderstanding he made no effort to clarify that ultimately winds up leaving her a hateful, bitter person without a friend in the world other than Krypto by the time Batkek showed up
Listen if you want to sit down and enjoy an Evil Superman book, just find an actual Evil Superman instead of the half-heatedly heartbroken jerk New 52 Superman is
So you saying is that you refused to start at the first issue and blame everyone but yourself for not keeping up with the plot.
You don't seem to understand. I started from the first issue, and yes for what it's worth I liked the arc with Mxy's son. It's because I read everything along the way that I came away with such a bitter aftertaste of it all.
Why are you having such a hard time with that?
>hard time
Are you having a stroke? Are you having serious difficulty comprehending someone could have read a character's stories up to the point where said character was retcon-merged into another character, and came away with a negative impression of said character?
Do you think people have a moral obligation to like everything you think they should?
>most
Well that's the problem. The people who should've headlined the whole thing were for whatever reason not allowed to, and it was much worse writers who left their mark on the run instead.
Morrison was a huge cause of problems early on, because he was so secretive with his plans and late turning in his scripts that he made it an utter nightmare to work on the Superman title. We ended up getting yes-man I-will-rewrite-this-to-the-editor's-specifications-at-the-drop-of-a-hat Lobdell on it because of that.
I think that's actually turns out to be a problem with Perez's editoral and not Morrison.
Both titles were edited by Idelson and Moss. Morrison was a big name and got to do whatever he wanted and what he was establishing had ripple effects on Superman.
Funny thing is that Superman book wouldn't have had the problems it did if they had adopted the Quantum State Universe back then. Just let the titles contradict each other.
>Both titles were edited by Idelson and Moss.
Yeah meaning they're the ones who fricked up.
They didn't even contradict each other, Perez just too caught up worried about what Morrison was doing.
Perez wasn't the one stressing about it. It was his editors forcing him to rewrite every month. It drove him off the title, then it drove off Keith Giffen a few months later, and then Dan Jurgens months after that. Lobdell rode it out.
This continuity was literally brand new, nothing in the previous continuity was retained. The big issue is that Morrison's title took place in the past and Superman took place in the present, Morrison had complete creative freedom about what the new continuity would be like, but he refused to write an outline detailing the new history, so each time a Superman script came in they had to run it by Morrison and he'd individually veto aspects that didn't work with his run then they'd have to tell the Superman writer to change what he was doing.
No, the issue is there were two Superman series to begin with (plus annuals). Readers 10 years from now shouldn't need to look up a reading order, it should be issue 1 onwards. Btw, the final order ended up being
>Action Comics #25 (Zero year)
>Action Comics #0 (Zero month)
>Batman/Superman #1-4
>Action Comics #1-8
>Action Comics Annual #1
>Justice League #1-6
>Action Comics #9-12
>Superman #0
>Action Comics #13-18
>Batman/Superman #5-7
>Supergirl #1-7
>Supergirl #0
>Supergirl #8-0
>Justice League #7
>Superboy #1-6
And then Superman #1.
It just sounds like you're just deliberately confusing yourself.
Telling DC Comics not to publish Action Comics and Superman is a non-starter. He sells too well to just limit it to one Superman book. They could go bi-monthly like Spider-Man, but that causes its own problems, both art and writing can suffer with that kind of schedule.
You're the one misremembering. The entire 18 issue run took place in the past, though there were some screwy time jumps near the end.
>He sells too well to just limit it to one Superman book.
What the frick are you talking about? Superman had 3 titles in the top 50 in August.
1 was carried by Batman, 1 was an event comic, and 1 was a one-shot annual.
The remaining 7 titles (inducing Action Comics) are dead titles.
No one gives a shit about Superman. Marvel had 8 titles in the top 10. The only title DC had in the top ten was...surprise-surprise a Batman title.
There have been at least two Superman monthlies published since the 1930s. They wouldn't do that if one of them wasn't carrying its weight. No one knows exact figures anymore and the entire industry is circling the drain. If they had confidence that a book that would replace Action or Superman would sell more, they would have canned one of them.
Superman can't break into the top 25 anymore without getting carried by Batman, and he can't get into the top 50 without some gimmick.
He's not an A-lister anymore. His books do not sell as well as the X-Men, Thor, Hulk, Wolverine, etc. and it's been going on for months. The only DC titles that are consistently doing well are the Batman titles. So what's going on? Why can't DC's golden boy get an audience?
>He's not an A-lister anymore
imo its happened because theres no good animated series or liveaction movies about superman
MAWS did not boost the sales either.
still recent idk if this series gonna change public opinion about the character but what made superman popularity really plummet because theres no good medium during 2010s, and lets not forget how twitter slandering him now zoomer and gen alpha seeing superman as dumb bland character.
*pic related postelon X twitter before the acquisition tweets reach 100k likes
Twitter is literally saying nothing new which makes worrying about what the youths been saying ironic.
>*pic related postelon X twitter before the acquisition tweets reach 100k likes
Twitter was already becoming irrelevant before that
Superman is the most generic superhero. It's like saying that your favorite anime character is Naruto.
My favorite Naruto character is Naruto himself pre-shippuden.
Itachi gays are the worst. Madara and Sasuke gays are tied for second
The problem with you is that you care too much what other people (and like bots) think.
I loved Superman as a kid, but the lack of mainstream content overall is what made me lose interest. I got back into him again when I had to actively search out for his media. It’s really a DC problem, because I eventually turned to Batman at one point but it was really because of the movie abundance and multiple cartoons over a period of time. There’s too much real life shit going on right now. The chronically online and people who actually live their lives are living in too different realities right now. Is caring about this going to save you when America goes to war?
>but the lack of mainstream content overall is what made me lose interest.
Yeah he only has
>Over 2000 radio episodes
>Over dozen animated films
>Film serials from the 40s and 50s
>Eight live action feature films
>Five live action TV series
>Six cartoon shows
>Over dozen video games
And of course 75 years a worth of comics. Barely any mainstream media at all!!!
Then why doesn't his comics sell anymore?
They do though
They don’t. see
How do Supergays cope this hard?
It gets even worse when you read the article and realize this has been on-going.
So this is a horrifically biased article coming from the starting postion that you're right.
The sales numbers don't lie anon. Superman titles can't do well unless they're gimmick or star Batman. This is a pattern that has repeated itself for years now.
Numbers don't lie but people telling you about the numbers do. Should I really let this dude who disingenuously frames everything as Superman has to sell comic units or else people won't remember him as the pop culture icon he objectively is?
>with Bruce Wayne carrying Superman's carcass across the finish line.
Kek
Again we got some Snyder shills trying desperately to distract people from how Snyder is crawling back to DC and not the other way around.
That's the big takeaway from this supposed news, Snyder had to get back to the DC grift.
Actually the biggest takeaway would that DC is setting up another reboot and having Scott Snyder is there to give the apperance this was planned and not done out of necessity.
Would DC be dumb enough to reboot/reset their universe again? All it does it make everything more confusing. Especially when they start bringing in old continuity.
That's kind of the problem, if you do a reboot, then what's the point of having Snyder's "Ultimate" DC? My feeling is that if they're going ahead with the Snyder project there's no reason to do another reboot.
The Ultimate DC lineup is the reboot, it's the opening salvo.
But that doesn't make sense, it'd just be the same issue was when they do Earth One and New 52 not long after
Which is better then what they currently which is mush and it's this description that catches my eye the most.
>it will also encapsulate a lot of classic DC Comics continuity, reshaped and refigured for the modern day, and emphasising creative freedom
Wasn't that what making everything canon supposed to do?
>Would DC be dumb enough to reboot/reset their universe again
They're smart enough to know they're gonna have to. This quantum foam age we got going on right now is a dud and fact is that people like that old continuity, that old continuity was DC lore people liked.
>they don't sell
>points me to a chart where they're clearly selling
The lowest placed title is for the last issue of a Superboy mini
>points me to a chart where they're clearly selling
Do you need glasses?
Do you need to me explain how trying to use comic book title sells as a barometer for Superman doesn't mean as much as you think?
You just said Superman comics sell when they don’t. You are backtracking and know you are wrong and no one buys Superman anymore.
They are clearly selling anon, it's weird you think you can deny that when it's plain as day.
Because he doesn't have my good comics. When was the last time he had a good comic? When Moore wrote an annual 35 years ago.
The majority of that is when he was extremely popular. And those animated films are for niche audiences.
I wasn’t even born for half of that.
>The big issue is that Morrison's title took place in the past
Only for 5 issues. Seems like you're talking out if your ass.
It was for 8, plus annual, and that only caught it up with Justice League #1, five years before Superman #1.
You're only proving my point if you're telling me 6-8 was also in the past but not the beginning because, again, things get convoluted and you get two time skips instead of one.
And that's totally fair. If Final Crisis and Countdown are any indication, the guy definitely sounds like a nightmare to work with. One of those "artistic" types that can't stick to a deadline to save his life.
The thing is, actually being able to write worth a damn alone puts you head and shoulders above most writers at DC currently. And it's a damn shame Morrison seems to have lost that in his final days at DC, out of what I assume was sheer frustration at the state of the setting
>Blackstars and Green Lantern S2 was just an extended shitpost about everything Snyder did wrong
>The Superman/Authority teamup felt really halfhearted
>Earth-2 Wonder Woman took FRICKING YEARS to finish and after setting up Amazon society has hugely flawed, has it's solution be what is tantamount to a love-powered Anti-Life Equation to force Earth to conform to Amazon values anyway without addressing any of it's demonstrable flaws like Paula going crazy and snapping from being sub'd
The guy has a shit work process but I honestly can't blame him having a breakdown or something.
I'm complaining that New 52 Superman fricking sucks, and that you're recommending it to someone apparently
>I'm complaining that New 52 Superman fricking sucks
Yeah but in a dumb way that no regular reader would complain about.
Basically you're telling me the other Superman suffered because muhh continuity and muhh synergy and you don't get why people are on board with this Ultimate line? Top kek.
>Are you having serious difficulty comprehending someone could have read a character's stories up to the point where said character was retcon-merged into another character, and came away with a negative impression of said character?
Yeah because that doesn't make any sense. I legitimately don't get what you've complaining anoyt here, the fact that time exist?
You might be mentally impaired. Did you even follow what Reborn was about?
So you're expecting me to think that you read all of the comics featuring superman up to reborn but that you're confused? How are you confused because it sounds like you were all caught up on Superman.
Morrison was good, Paktion Comics/Yang was also all right, most of the other runs were a trashfire, sure.
No because that came with baggage. Action Comics under Morrison was great and it continued fine under Pak too. It's been all downhill since.
>No because that came with baggage.
No it doesn't.
Yes it does, 5 year time skip, Wonder Woman romance.
That's not baggae though, You're using the word baggage wrong.
>and Snyder will probably do Wonder Woman because he's been meaning to write her for years and I won't read it because I don't care about Wonder Woman
As a guy who's been shitting on Snyder nonstop in this thread, to be honest what little of her there was in the original Dark Nights Metal was actually alright. Nothing special. Nothing memorable. But...alright.
It makes it all more baffling how moronic he wrote her in Death Metal. And god, the idea of Scott Snyder doing something with Grail is a horrifying idea.
I don't care about Jon Kent and his pedo fans. He doesn't have to be deaged, just erased completely.
>Superheroes (adult)
that's the entire fricking problem in two words
He's got a point, what good would an ultimate line be in a multiverse with no continuity?
Make a wholly self-contained book where you just keep reading volume after volume and don't need to worry about crossovers or line-wide events.
Wasn't that why Ultimate Spider-Man was so popular? It was easy to get into.
>Snyder resets w an Ultimate like imprint called Earth Alpha that's a few core books
>Existing publishing line unofficially allows itself to mold into Gunn verse multimedia synergy
>Woke writers pitches just get turned into Elseworlds instead and/or the YA graphic novels
>DC basically just becomes a series of imprints
Upgrade or downgrade?
Your mistake is assuming Snyder knows how to write anything other than the most moronic stories possible these days.
>Scott Snyder
I hope DC goes bankrupt.
Listen, I'm just saying. When there is fanfiction out there being written for free with higher quality than "professional writers", there is a problem.
And the solution is NOT more Batkeks.
Listen, if you unironically read fanfiction, then why do you think your opinion is worth a shit? Or if you're one of those sad fricks that write fanfiction and believes he's so talented he needs to come online and try to do stealth advertising... why don't you try to get an actual paying job in the industry? Cause the way I see it you should apply for a janny job too if you like doing shit for free so much.
You don't seem to be able to get it through your skull. I DON'T want to read fanfiction. I'm saying that there is something profoundly wrong with the industry if Scott fricking Snyder, the man who created Batkek, is even being considered as the solution to DC comics' current woes.
Because Batkek is WORSE than any fanfiction character.
You sound like an expert on fanfiction.
Nothing is going to change because the same clowns keep buying their books whether they're good or bad.
tbh the only thing I remember about the Ultimate universe is that it was edgier and more degenerate than usual for Marvel, and also that it has the thiccest version of Hela in the multiverse
Scott Snyder made me regret getting into comics. I heard about the state of the industry but I didn’t really care and wanted to form my own opinion, but oh boy it’s atrocious. And it’s because of hack writers like him.
It's good to see that people are hating on DC because the company needs to die.
PKJ is getting booted off Action, but said he will continue working on Superman. I assume he will be launching the Ultimate Superman book.
>We're going to steal Marvel's Ultimate Universe idea
DC finally realize it's more profitable to follow the winners than doing whatever shit they're doing now.
DC's been belatedly trying to copy Marvel ever since 1986.
Second place is better than bankruptcy.
Sad!
Ultimate relaunches never work because inevitably they start going for the "big" stories, and then realize the old stories are still on trade and already retold in movies and animations in an altered form too, so they have to make some stupid idea to change things up further.
Look, before we get further off-track. Forget about the concept and focus on the man here-because ultimately, execution matters more than concept. And Earth Alpha or whatever as a concept aside, can we at least agree that inviting Scott Snyder back to DC is a terrible fricking idea?
desperation
It's not really that hard to please men.
Cute girl with fat honkers. That's it. That's the secret formula.
Can Snyder save DC comics from itself?
What? Can the man who ruined the DC Comics save DC Comics? Can the pedophile save the child? Can the racists save the black community?
>ITT we b***h and moan and regurgitate old talking points how everything sucks because we have been brainwashed by culture wars to just hate everything on principle
I don't hate Scott Snyder's work on principle, I hate Scott Snyder's work through experience.
>And that this new DC publishing initiative would involve a new reality for DC Comics characters to play out in.
They say DC comic characters but what they really mean is Batman.
You people need to get off the internet for a while. Imagine caring about twitter when the majority is run by bots.
Oh boy. Another universe with more characters made gay and black. How original.
Superman's new love interest will be a French man named Luis Lané
Oh boy. Another post by anonymous whining about black and gay people being in comics. How original.
I'm not trying to be original. I'm just having a laugh at you people scratching your heads trying to figure out why this shit doesn't sell.
Correlation ain't causation son.
Good one
Just stating simple truths.
DC Comics can’t even make their own main universe work, how can they expect to make a coherent Ultimate universe?
People are so damn salty over Superman. It’s fricking hilarious. No other character causes this much seethe on here.
>People are so damn salty over Superman. It’s fricking hilarious. No other character causes this much seethe on here
>seethe
LMAO
>Calls out the obvious
>Assumes I like DC capeshit
I’ve been lurking in DC schizo threads for a long time. The sheer amount of shit Superman causes for no reason is fricking amazing. I might start getting into DC capeshit to see what’s causing this much insecurity.
Go ahead. He could use the sales. LMAO
>Still seething over a cartoon in a niche industry outsold by manga, fricking lmao. He must’ve fricked you real hard to make you shit yourself this much.
Probably. You got any recommendations for getting into DC comics? Something is forcing DC schizos to act this fricking insane lately. I want to see it.
>I'm gonna buy comics and you'll see!
ROFL
Yep, Superman fricked you real hard somewhere. Sad!
t.
Did Superman go into your ass or mouth?
>I'm not a Superman gay I swear!
>I just defend him because....I JUST DO OKAY!
>Supergay!
>Superman!
>Everyone’s a Supergay!
All you see is Superman. Sad! What did the fictional character do to drive you this insane?
Think for a minute. Superman is a failed character. Despite the massive push he's getting from the company his comics still don't sell.
The sales numbers don't lie. It's fact.
Go ahead, I implore you, spend your money on his comics.
>Deflecting to a already dying industry
Where did I say I’ve buy the comics? I’ll just read that shit online, I don’t care about supporting capeshit. I just laugh at frickers who are so butthurt about a character that they dedicate so much time to shitting on him. However, I’m a bit interested into taking a peek due to the amount of schizo threads over one character that causes so much rage just by existing.
You're not helping his sales man. You need to spend your money.
>1000s of Superman images saved on his computer ready to spam
You’re obsessed. Reeks of insecurity over Superman. Compared to Marvel, you people are fricking insane by comparison. He either fricked over your favorite character or you need something to spite over to compensate for something missing in your life. Sad!
>The sales numbers don't lie
But we haven't had sales numbers in years
Cause it's the same guy making an argument with himself
I'm only interested in this if we get teenage Teen Titans with Dick Grayson dating Starfire.
If you see one grift you can bet there's another coming along right below, you got the "keep buying multiverse events to fix the multiverse that multiverse events keep ruining" but there's a much more insidious grift of syncretism where DC entertainment gets dumb comic book creators to reinvent old characters without "relying" on continuitt just to get those lumped together as one and then offered to the movie production side to reinvent even further in a bid to ensure writers don't get a cut.