Why is everyone so against them here on Cinemaphile? Semi-autobiographical stories are bread and butter for generations now. Pic related with Turning Red and Luca.
self-inserts
Why is everyone so against them here on Cinemaphile? Semi-autobiographical stories are bread and butter for generations now. Pic related with Turning Red and Luca.
OP doesn't know what a self-insert is.
What?
Disney has nothing else lined up and need to fill a schedule
Hey why don't they release that baseball show? That'll bring people in! I mean it was supposed to come out in November of last year and got pushed to "Sometime in 2024" despite being done and having been done and already being pushed back once, so now the hype has got to be at a fever pitch.
50k for an amv where your waifu rapes you is self-inserting
a story based on your life experiences is not self-inserting
Once again, fippy was bippy.
You're supposed to write what you know so a main character being based on you isn't bad.
The issue is when you write a self-insert who is perfect and do no wrong and that every character inexplicably likes. These are called Mary Sues and people don't like them because they're unrealistic, unrelatable, and just really cheesy. It reeks of ego and annoys audiences.
For example, the show The Wonder Years was lauded as being a landmark television show. The main character, Kevin, is based on the creator. The thing is, Kevin isn't always right. Kevin makes a lot of mistakes and is far from perfect. But that's what made the show compelling in part: that Kevin learned from his mistakes and grew as a person. You know, like human beings do as they go through childhood into adulthood (or at least you're supposed to grow).
Now let's take Turning Red. What lesson does Mei Lee learn? That's she's right. That's she's always right. That she can do no wrong. In fact, it's everyone else that was wrong, especially her mother. She doesn't grow as a person at all.
In a better written version of Turning Red, Mei slowly discovers that she can't control her panda, and that it's slowly taking over and becoming more wild, ultimately leading to some of her friends getting hurt. And she also learns that she's great on her own and doesn't need the panda.
Wouldn't that be a great movie? Well it already exists. It's called Teen Wolf. Yes, they made Turning Red back in the 80's, and they did it better.
>Now let's take Turning Red. What lesson does Mei Lee learn? That's she's right. That's she's always right. That she can do no wrong. In fact, it's everyone else that was wrong, especially her mother. She doesn't grow as a person at all.
There are two moments in that movie that just make me question whether the whole thing isnt a hit piece on the director's mother. The first is when the mother tries to give pads to her teen daughter in the middle of class in front of the whole school. Literally, and I mean literally, no mother would ever do this unless she was consciously trying to embarrass her daughter. Mothers were teenagers once and they fricking know how embarrasing periods are for 13 year old girls.
The second is when Mei tells her mother to her face that she would rather trust her teenager friends over her on important things. This is something that is never challenged, presented completely straight, and she is even vindicated by the end of the movie. Trusting your hormonal adolescent friends over the one person who has your best interests in mind and has the experience to best guide you, in most cases, is a horrible fricking lesson to have in a children's movie.
There's no question. If you look at any movie by an Asian American female, it almost always is a hit piece on their parents. Asian girls hate their parents for making them Asian, and they're the reason she's not white.
Compared to Elemental, where the Ember loves her dad, so much so her entire conflict is her not wanting to disappoint her dad by not taking the store, and willing to give up following her dream to do it and make him happy. This movie was made by an Asian American man, and Asian men respect their parents a lot.
> Asian girls hate their parents for making them Asian, and they're the reason she's not white.
I dont know anon, being asian allows them to both reap the benefits of near whiteness and benefit from being poc in the relevant ways. They get to have a "culture" while not being part of the brown poc, they get to shit on whites while not being in nigh poverty. I dont think any asian american woman actually wants to be white. If anything, I think white envy is much more common among asian american men.
Well therein lies another problem. We live in an era now were things are, generally for the most part, A LOT better than they used to be. BETTER. Not PERFECT. Not cleaned up entirely. Not 100 percent puppies and rainbows. But better. We live in a better world so the people who have problems don't really have THAT huge of a problem. My mom being somewhat embarrassing and overprotective is not a problem. In a better movie the protagonist would learn lessons, make mistakes and grow closer to said parent. Maybe as part of a road trip. Perhaps the kid told a lie and let their parent down to where they lost a bit of faith in them and has to reconcile while the two learn to look at things from each others perspective and maybe at the end the parent could help the kid with a problem...
>The first is when the mother tries to give pads to her teen daughter in the middle of class in front of the whole school. Literally, and I mean literally, no mother would ever do this unless she was consciously trying to embarrass her daughter. Mothers were teenagers once and they fricking know how embarrasing periods are for 13 year old girls.
Compare that with the scene from Into the Spider-Verse where Mile's dad embarrasses him in front of the school and it's a night and day difference.
>people still think the film where the overbearing mother has her side of the story sympathetically shown is a hit piece
>people still think the film that has the mc growing past their own anxiety and dishonesty directly resulting in the conflict being solved has a mary sue MC
It's a film made for kids that can't even wipe their own asses yet that literally grabs you by the head and unsubtly screeches its message at you but somehow you frickers still somehow can't get it; even more funny since a lot of the points repeated at Turning Red are word-for-word repeats from that LiteratureDevil guy, almost as if they're just loaning his opinions because confirmation bias and not actually trying to give the film an actual fair informed analysis. Even more impressive are comments like thinking a mom doing psychotic shit at a school is unrealistic when for fricking decades we've had firsthand stories of parents doing psychotic shit or just embarrassing their kids in public trying to do the right thing. I understand autism is overrepresented on this site but you think with "KAREN OWNED COMPILATION 2019" and moms complaining over violent games maybe... just maybe a mom from whose parenting culture is notorious for anal parenting to the point of emotional abuse might just do some weird shit? Who knows!!!
> mom doing psychotic shit at a school is unrealistic
There is a bit of a difference between mom yelling slurs in parent's meeting or picking a fight with the staff and actively trying to hand daughter tampons very visibly to everyone while in the middle of the class. Also, Mei's mom is implied to be a somewhat functional adult and not the psychotic freaks you see in your karen compilations.
Its also very funny how you imply that Mei's mom could be in one of those compilations when that is the whole basis of the movie being a hit piece. The director is essentially telling her mom shes a karen.
>maybe a mom from whose parenting culture is notorious for anal parenting to the point of emotional abuse might just do some weird shit? Who knows!!!
Yes, those moms perhaps hit their daughters, or tell them they are prostitutes, in private, for having sexual fantasies about random cashiers. Those moms, no mom really, would attempt to, extremely autistically btw, to hand her daughter pads in the middle of the class, where everybody can see. This is a mom who supposedly cares about order and tradition.
>somewhat functional adult
picrel
>when that is the whole basis of the movie being a hit piece. The director is essentially telling her mom shes a karen.
Reread the first greentext of my post. Domee also stated that her and her mom are closer and that her mom loved the movie.
>Yes, those moms perhaps hit their daughters, or tell them they are prostitutes, in private
Tell me you don't know about Chinese parenting without telling me you don't know about Chinese parenting. I've personally seen white parents shaming their kids in front of a crowd. Your statement about "order and tradition" is transponding anglo-centric principles where they need not apply.
Chinks aborted generations of females, you can’t fool me Chang.
I'm one of the whitest motherfrickers ever my guy.
I do feel bad about the abortions though. Outside of abortion being a grave evil, Chinese girls are just really frickkng cute, esp. with their accents.
You havent seen a parent trying to hand their teenage daughter menstrual products in front of a crowd where every one can see, much less in a school setting like Mei's mother tries to do.
And even if there existed such an idiot of a mother. That still doesnt mean that the movie's overall message isnt that kids know much more than their parents what is better for them. Which is a stupid message and it is bad. The vast vast majority of kids do not what it is good for them better than their parents do.
If any parent were to just hand their daughter menstrual pads out in the open, it should have been the dad.
Yeah but the dad in the movie is a cinnamon roll who doesnt do anything bad and its just the mom as the driving force of her daughter's oppression.
Disney movies should not ever have the words MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS anywhere outside the female employees who worked on the project's restroom.
I mean, menstruation is an integral part of growing up for girls. If you have a coming of age story for a girl, not even referencing the issue is not being entirely honest.
I agree however that it should definitely not be at the forefront of the movie or feature prominently.
>I mean, menstruation is an integral part of growing up for girls. If you have a coming of age story for a girl, not even referencing the issue is not being entirely honest.
Not every coming of age story for boys references puberty. It's not like Stand By Me had a scene where the kids have to hide an unfortunate boner in the middle of the long adventure. The Beast And The Boy didn't have a scene where he was concerned about his armpits suddenly stinking to hell. Inside Out didn't bring it up and it landed just fine. Leo was specifically talking about growing up problems for kids and somehow remained without bringing up anything puberty wise on either side.
You can absolutely not reference it and be entirely honest about the experience, what you said is an easily proven flat out lie.
None of the movies you mentioned are entirely honest about growing up. That is fine, it doesnt necessarily detract from the movie and sometimes it just does not fit it. This is not an argument to necessarily include it, just one against the conscious exclusion. Why do you think menstruation doesnt have a place in these movies?
>None of the movies you mentioned are entirely honest about growing up.
Now that's just wrong, and painfully obvious too, because-
> This is not an argument to necessarily include it, just one against the conscious exclusion.
You betray your point by saying it can only be honest but then say that you don't even feel it is necessary to include, only not exclude. Which contradictory, if something can be excluded from the entire story without thinking about it, then by what logic could it not be "Honest about growing up"? Just because it can't hit every single issue at the same time, or do you really think that this own narrow subject matter is the only "Honest" outlook on that time of life? If you include them but exclude others, like Turning Red obviously had to in droves due to the fact that it's not 4 hours long, you're being honest about growing up?
Wrong, and idiotic.
>Why do you think menstruation doesnt have a place in these movies?
I don't even agree with that notion, but you saying that was too wrong to ignore. If they want to put it in, fine, but to say they're more honest or "Real" or some such bullshit is nothing more than spouting drivel to make this story sound better than it is.
> don't even feel it is necessary to include, only not exclude. Which contradictory
There is no contradiction here whatsoever. Choosing not to include something is not the same as conscious effort to not include it. The latter is far stronger than the former. Something can accidentally not be included without any intention of excluding it. So you are wrong on that account.
>Honest about growing up
There is a difference between being entirely honest and simply being more honest. Essential feautures of what transforms kids into adults are themselves an essential process of growing up and including them is more authentic to the overall experience of growing up. Note that authentic or honest does not mean better ovreall. I never claimed that.
>they're more honest or "Real" or some such bullshit is nothing more than spouting drivel to make this story sound better than it is.
They are more honest because they are integral components of the experience for most people. Like I said, its not necessarily bad to not include them. Just less complete.
>Choosing not to include something is not the same
Here again you contradict yourself, because to be honest about something in your own words involves not specifically including something which, unless you asked the filmmakers, you would never know they chose not to include rather than merely didn't think of. Did the writer of Inside Out consciously choose to exclude it, or did they merely get swept up in the party scene and the funny emotion worlds that it just never came up? By your own insistence, we cannot know if the film is honest or not until this fact was confirmed even if the entire story is unchanged, specifically according to
.
>. Something can accidentally not be included
Then it is not dishonest or lacking in the honesty of growing up, is it? Or, if this were the case, then the multitude of parts of growing up that TR obviously did not include would exclude it just as sternly by the rules you lay down unless your entire criteria for the honesty of telling a tale of growing up starts and ends with menstration.
If that's the case, then at least you're not a liar, but you're still just spouting drivel.
>There is a difference between being entirely honest and simply being more honest.
More honest, please. As if this were somehow more valid than things like confronting death and a sudden turn to adulthood.
>they are integral components
Every movie listed goes in great detail about integral components, and ones like Inside Out go into greater detail about those aspects than Turning Red does. To try and elevate this story in such a way betrays a shortsightedness that's just plain stupid to attach such a label falsely to it. It's no more "Real" or "Honest".
>Just less complete.
And here's where it goes from wrong to just plain braindead. Turning Red wishes it spoke as much about growing pains as Stand By Me does. Didn't even touch on life or death and wishes it had enough about the loss of friendship, does this mean it's less real?
>This is not an argument to necessarily include it, just one against the conscious exclusion
So like, if someone writes a whole story without ever once thinking about it or bringing it up and finishes the script, it's honest, but then if someone asks about it and they don't put it in, it's not being honest? What is this, Copenhagen interpretation honesty? Observing it changes it's outcome?
> Copenhagen interpretation honesty?
Extra points for not saying Schrödinger
>So like, if someone writes a whole story without ever once thinking about it or bringing it up and finishes the script, it's honest, but then if someone asks about it and they don't put it in, it's not being honest? What is this, Copenhagen interpretation honesty? Observing it changes it's outcome
No? A story without those elements is always less honest but less honest does not necessarily translate to better. A complete recreation of the events of ww2 does not necessarily make a ww2 movie better. Conscious exclusion vs accidental exclusion is not a question about honesty. It is simply why it is desirable to include or exclude something. I simply claimed that the view 'talk of menstuation must never be shown on a Disney movie' is wrong.
I'mma be honest I just wanted to make a Cophenhagen joke but your response just makes me thing you attached the word honest to it without any idea about what it means and seems to think this particular aspect makes it special when it really doesn't. Honest ain't a buzzword stop using it like one.
The only movie I can think of that use menstruation as a plot point was Carrie. And that was both set up for a plot point and because Steven King is a creep. Just because growing up is an important part of life, and puberty and changing bodies and awkwardness and all that makes it weird doesn't mean you have to go into detail, especially when this is still a movie for little kids.
It's the Brave problem all over again.
It's a growing problem of people not being able to keep some distance from their projects instead making it really too much about themselves.
Or Moana, who's entire character arc is "I'm going to declare something is right and then... yep, I'm right. I will learn zero lessons and nothing new about myself while being protected at all time from the Ocean." Least it wasn't "Racist Grandma was right the whole time"
Noticing teen girl CGI movies have a pretty awful track record for lessons. Not that live action is better, but somehow "You're already perfect you just need to stop letting people tell you that you aren't perfect and instantly win with zero issues because you already had the perfect power the whole time and don't need to work for anything more" of Rey, Carol, She-Hulk and Mulan is something that can be shaken out of most little girls just by virtue of the first time they try it, it's gonna blow up in their faces. But this animated trend spreading to stuff like Wish where the end lesson is "You were totally right this whole time and everyone else just had to learn how right you are no matter how fricking insane it sounds or how little sense it makes when you think about it" is far more dangerous because they can keep believing that even when it blows up, because people didn't believe them when they said they totally knew what they were talking about.
>conform goyim
>black (schvartze)
>chink (femoid)
>gay (CP)
>all gigantic failures
what did pixar mean by this?
I like how all three of those movies have one character doing the smug look
>Why is everyone so against them here on Cinemaphile?
because they're shit
I like all of this except Turning Red. That movie's "lesson" is fricking attrocious and genuinely harmful. But maybe old /b/tards from the 00's will like seeing tweens with OFs.
I'm a /b-tard from back in 2004, and I enjoyed it because pre-ending Mei reminded me of myself at her age. But yes, the girls are all adorable.
no you're not
>uses the spirit representation in lieu of showing a black
What did Disney mean by this
>What did Disney mean by this
to trick parents... shouldn't his soul be brown???
Did anyone actually hate Soul? Feels like it was just ignored and forgotten about on release.
I mean it's not -good- but it's not a terrible movie. As in, nothing jumps out and makes me think "All of these people suck and are terrible and I don't want to watch them anymore." MC is a bit uninteresting and they really should've spent more time in the visually interesting and unique pre-life area, but mostly it was just dull with the body switching.
Kind of funny how much people complained about "Another disney black character spends the whole movie as a completely different thing!" when it turns out the movie would've been vastly improved if that was the case, the scenes with the cat were painfully unfunny but everything in the pre-life area were at least unique. You absolutely got the majority of the movie with the black dude on screen, it's just really not as good.
So a pretty mixed response overall. What I'm getting was it was a fairly mid movie that wasn't particularly offensive in any real way, might have been dull or charming depending on personal tastes, but regardless it ultimately got fricked over by COVID happening at the time of release.
>but regardless it ultimately got fricked over by COVID happening at the time of release.
Maybe, but Teenage Kraken(Or if you want pre-Covid, Good Dinosaur) proved mid movies can sometimes be hit worse than bad ones. MAYBE it could've done better, but if anything the lukewarm response it's gotten even with time meant it was always destined never to do that hot.
Good chance of that yeah, we'll probably never know for sure though
I mean at the very least this release proves that it's not managed to get anyone thinking it NEEDS to be seen on the big screen. If it was pushed back to 2021 it probably would've been regarded as a Disney Plus release then too, only way to avoid that would've been to scale back the push during covid.
Pixar's name and Disney's name both meant something during Soul's release, so it will have no doubt done well just on brand alone.
Nowadays? Harder to tell. They can only hope for Elemental-like legs nowadays.
>Pixar's name and Disney's name both meant something during Soul's release,
Good Dinosaur and Cars 3 thoroughly debunk this notion.
Yeah, it got fricked by COVID. Probably would've been better off shelving it until summer 2021 and giving it a proper theatrical release.
Soul has an issue with the MC never really growing. I mean fulfilling his dream is nice but him never growing to see the impact he's been having on those around him harms the overall story.
I really like it and think it's really smart with how it uses its narrative structure to deliver a really wa-pow message.
Didn't hate it, but didn't enjoy it. It's just a series of "AND THEN" storytelling. Pixar usually tells us all of the rules of their fantastical elements at the start and then the rest of the movie plays out within the confines of these rules.
Soul just made shit up as it went, whether for conflict or resolution. There's no real sense of a coherent world. They can attribute it to the unknowns of death or whatever, but that's what makes it not a Pixar movie to me.
>Did anyone actually hate Soul?
Did anyone actually see it?
Dreamworks Face.
>Watch Em
No, Watch Minus One or Boy and the Heron, you will not regret it.
Its been rumored that the actual budget was around 10-12M USD, still made more then 50% revenue in the states alone, didnt even made above 30M in japan.
Minus Color is gettin a limited 1 week release in the states after all.
They're already on Disney+. So what's the point?
Recover their loses after choke from being woke, oh, and that Wish bombed in the US at the hands of this.
Sadly, wish did made its budget back Internationally because of non-american millenials, c.u°ck.ed countries like Canada, Mexico and the UK, and the japanese because their obsession with Disney, the latter got baited with a Spy Family tie in, but doesnt change the fact the movie FAILED in the US, which is funny too cobsidering that Godzilla Minus One while doubling its budget in japan, failed to get close to even half of what Shin Godzilla made in japan alone, Internationally Minus One has made 45M USD, and at least 32M in japan, but shockingly enough made more money here to the point that the original planned single weeked run got extended many times up until this month were it still in theathers but its on its way out.
Self Inserts are GAY!