>takes pen >stick it in his mouth >chews on it for 5 minutes >takes it out >puts it in his anus >says i am such a homosexual
what did leo mean by this?
It blows my mind how so many men misunderstand this film and think this is how they should act when it’s clearly a cautionary tale to not be fricking that
He fulfilled his What A Life quota in record timing, and essentially got off Scot free. He still lives a cushy later life on his book sales which also give him fame and fans
Face it chud, he Won
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT PRISON
Absolutely braindead take.
>I'm not ashamed to admit it. When we arrived to prison, I was absolutely terrified. But I needn't have been. See, for a brief fleeting moment, I'd forgotten I was rich and I lived in a place where everything was for sale. Wouldn't you like to learn how to sell it?
Desperate morons, morons who over estimate their ability, morons who underestimate their own abilities, morons who love being attracted to infamous people.
i think the point of the contrast between those scenes is that society doesnt reward moral behaviour. The cop was morally right for putting Jordan away. Jordan had ruined thousands of peoples lives and scammed them out of all of their money.
Marty is trying to show through the film what an evil manipulative man he is. But society will never punish him for his misdeeds because society values sociopathic, manipulative behaviour. Not just or moral behaviour.
We idolize the very people that frick us over and see us as cattle, while the heroes trying to put them away get to ride the subway.
Big brained take, I wish Marty had pressed this home a little harder for me and the other brainlets. And as I said earlier, I still think he undercuts the moral by rewarding Belfort with a cameo. Unless... shit, was that intentional meta commentary?
7 months ago
Anonymous
yeh but it makes Jordan look like a dumbass by not realizing the movie's criticizing him and his evil lifestyle. But belfort did make a ton of money from that movie
7 months ago
Anonymous
Only if it's clearly a criticism, which is my whole point. Scorsese didn't do a good enough job getting that across. If I were Belfort I would also point to WoWS and say "frick yeah, look at me." Because who got hurt?
7 months ago
Anonymous
yeh you're right. Belfort clearly thinks it makes him look cool
>muh cautionary tale
Men are men. They like to live fast, hard and go out young. That’s the based way to do it at least. Not sure why society is so obsessed with heckin wholesome cautionary tales, to what? Artificially extend your life way too long so some broad has a chance to divorce you or you get enslaved?
That intention was undercut by having Belfort himself in a cameo role. Unless the real intent was to show how corrupt the system is because he got off so lightly.
>Unless the real intent was to show how corrupt the system is because he got off so lightly.
that was part of it, remember how he said he was afraid of prison because he forgot he was rich, and it was relaxing with tennis courts and shit. The reason there's a book at all is because Chong from cheech and chong was his roommate and enjoyed Belfort's stories and said he should write a book.
That's interesting, I wasn't aware. Apparently Chong had to advise him against ripping off Bonfire of the Vanities verbatim.
Still, it feels like the film's message suffers from glamorizing his lifestyle. On the other hand, it was glamorous, so I'm not sure what Scorsese could have done differently. Maybe depict more of the fallout suffered by the people he swindled? I seem to remember Boiler Room doing that.
yeh it's kinda crazy how faceless his victims were in the movie, you just see moments of jordan and his friends laughing at them for falling for his "sales expertise". It really hits harder when you start investing yourself and you realize you have to watch out for the likes of people like Jordan.
This is the scene, right at the end when he goes to jail, the penultimate scene in the movie
>yeh it's kinda crazy how faceless his victims were in the movie
Succinctly put, that perfectly sums up my complaint with it. It didn't show you why you should think he's a disgusting butthole instead of just an incorrigible rogue. Apparently others had the same gripe. >Christina McDowell, daughter of Tom Prousalis, who worked closely with Belfort at Stratton Oakmont, wrote an open letter to Scorsese, DiCaprio, and Belfort, criticizing the film for insufficiently portraying the victims of Stratton Oakmont's financial crimes, disregarding the damage done to her family as a result, and giving celebrity status to people (Belfort and his partners, including her father) who do not deserve it. >Steven Perlberg of Business Insider saw an advance screening of the film at a Regal Cinemas near the Goldman Sachs building with an audience of finance workers. Perlberg reported cheers from the audience at what he considered all the wrong moments, writing, "When Belfort—a drug addict attempting to remain sober—rips up a couch cushion to get to his secret coke stash, there were cheers."
I know stories like this will always be misread by shitty people, just like Gordon Gekko was, but I think there's tangible blame to be laid on Scorsese.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>"When Belfort—a drug addict attempting to remain sober—rips up a couch cushion to get to his secret coke stash, there were cheers."
Oh boo fricking hoo. Yes, morons idolize the criminals they're not supposed to. Every single show or movie with an "antihero" has to had to deal with this before. Maybe nobody gives a shit because we learn this is a system about risks and rewards. There weren't bumpkins who had never heard about the internet or the stock market before getting cold called at Stratton Oakmont, it was whales who saw dollar signs in their eyes rather than doing their due diligence.
People always complain about Scorcese "glamorizing" crime because he's filming these movies from the perspectives of how the criminals thought of themselves. A moment I'm always drawn to is the beginning of Goodfellas is how Henry's talking about how the mafia were just a neighborhood watch for the places cops didn't care about, and the very next sequence is about Tommy beating up the bar owner rather than paying his own tab, the bar owner running to Butchie for protection, and Butchie proceeding to run him out of business and torching the property for insurance money. This isn't commented upon because Henry is still fully bought into his delusions about the mafia, unlike the scene of Spider getting killed where Henry clearly thought things went "too far."
marty was a sickly child who rarely left his home and only observed the street kids from from afar and therefore developed a warped and unrealistic perception of them that he went on to make movies about that everyone took as sacrosanct depictions cause he was good at it
Fair point. When his is goal to give the criminal POV, I know it would be obtrusive to the narrative to keep saying "remember kids, this is BAD." But I feel like it was handled better in Goodfellas. Even when Henry doesn't think it's a big deal, you often hear his callous monologues juxtaposed with seeing the actual suffering of the victims.
He does glamorize crime. Stop your mental gymnastics.
Btw the way the mind works is you rememebr the 1 hour 20 minutes of glamour, if he does get his commupence in the last 5 minutes, it is too late, your Brian will remember the 1 hour twenty minutes more than the 5 minutes.
Movies are pure evil social programming
7 months ago
Anonymous
OK Charls, how about you watch some behind the scenes footage and cure your psychosis instead of sending death threats to David Chase for once.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>He does glamorize crime. Stop your mental gymnastics.
Anyone who disagrees with this is fooling themselves.
Fair point. When his is goal to give the criminal POV, I know it would be obtrusive to the narrative to keep saying "remember kids, this is BAD." But I feel like it was handled better in Goodfellas. Even when Henry doesn't think it's a big deal, you often hear his callous monologues juxtaposed with seeing the actual suffering of the victims.
Yeh goodfellas was real good at reminding that Henry was a scumbag who didn't care who got hurt, like when the mobsters threaten the fricking mailman and Henry just stands there, almost like an adult, watching that mailman's life being threatened, to the point that Henry's family doesn't get any mail at all. No regard to consequences at all. Interesting is when the film moves on in its narrative and the idealized doo wop of the 50s, 60s, and early 70s becomes hard rock and the movie turns paranoid and edgy.
marty was a sickly child who rarely left his home and only observed the street kids from from afar and therefore developed a warped and unrealistic perception of them that he went on to make movies about that everyone took as sacrosanct depictions cause he was good at it
>marty was a sickly child who rarely left his home and only observed the street kids from from afar and therefore developed a warped and unrealistic perception of them
That's a very good point. He put himself in movies like Mean Streets through Keitel's desire to be a good catholic, but also made his stand in be a low level mobster doing mobster stuff.
>yeh it's kinda crazy how faceless his victims were in the movie
Succinctly put, that perfectly sums up my complaint with it. It didn't show you why you should think he's a disgusting butthole instead of just an incorrigible rogue. Apparently others had the same gripe. >Christina McDowell, daughter of Tom Prousalis, who worked closely with Belfort at Stratton Oakmont, wrote an open letter to Scorsese, DiCaprio, and Belfort, criticizing the film for insufficiently portraying the victims of Stratton Oakmont's financial crimes, disregarding the damage done to her family as a result, and giving celebrity status to people (Belfort and his partners, including her father) who do not deserve it. >Steven Perlberg of Business Insider saw an advance screening of the film at a Regal Cinemas near the Goldman Sachs building with an audience of finance workers. Perlberg reported cheers from the audience at what he considered all the wrong moments, writing, "When Belfort—a drug addict attempting to remain sober—rips up a couch cushion to get to his secret coke stash, there were cheers."
I know stories like this will always be misread by shitty people, just like Gordon Gekko was, but I think there's tangible blame to be laid on Scorsese.
yeh, he does shit like this, and I tell you, this movie came out my freshman year of college and we all idolized it. Took at as a motivation to get fricked up and get rich any which way. He's kinda like the version Andrew Tate that had no useful advice or motivation at all
7 months ago
Anonymous
>this movie came out my freshman year of college and we all idolized it
Doesn't surprise me at that age. Even if Scorsese had covered all the bases we've been talking about, that probably would have been the case. I'm about a decade older, Fight Club got me and my boys the same way. But I wonder what is it about mob movies? I know otherwise reasonable people my age who still fantasize about being Tony Soprano, Scarface, etc. Like their brains refuse to absorb the final act. I remember one friend, who loves mob movies, hating Black Mass because Bulger "didn't seem cool."
7 months ago
Anonymous
Being a mobster is the closest to primitive life one can get. You hang out with men of varying ages, many of them related to you. Living in a dangerous environment where you gotta be tough and keep your wits about you. Screwing over anyone who isn't part of your tribe. If you are tough, smart and ruthless you are rewarded with riches and women, meritocracy with no office politics BS (reality can often be different but the ideal is this). It has an instinctual pull where you have to use your brain to get beyond that initial: >Man this is cool
Impression and realize the consequences of behaving like this.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>meritocracy with no office politics BS (reality can often be different but the ideal is this).
This is one of the things the Sopranos did really well, drove in the similarities between the "glamorous" mob life and the realities that it was very similar to many other american jobs.
one of the youtubers pointed out how that sigh is a lot like the kind of sigh you may give before doing something you don't want to during work.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Being a mobster is the closest to primitive life one can get.
I appreciate that you understood the message that these guys aren't to emulated, anon, but I think this analysis is still fundamentally flawed that it borders on the type of romanticization that I'm talking about. Mobs can only exist when there's a society to take advantage of and laws to operate outside of. These guys seem cool because they flout the rules that bind others. I think the more honest answer, that a lot of people don't want to admit to themselves, is this
as a bullied pushover, I enjoyed the power fantasy of being a mobster making money in a pure capitalistic way and being someone who took no shit because they could seriously hurt or even kill the insulter.
I think I never fell prey to that because I'm so guileless that I always identify with the poor mook who keeps his head down, stays loyal and does as he's told, and then gets fricked anyway. And there's always one, to illustrate that the meritocracy is a false promise by the psychos who screw over anyone they need to, tribe or not.
A lot of people are fricking morons. You should have figured this out by now.
Anon, anon, anon, anon. You're glib.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, the power fantasy thing is a big part of it that I failed to mention. These mafia shows/movies usually have one of these moments where an average Joe would clench their fist in their pocket but a criminal can do whatever they want. Like the scene in Goodfellas where the main character brutally beats up a guy who molested his girlfriend. However I don't think the power fantasy of being able to hurt whoever you want is the whole picture. These movies/shows have large parts of them devoted to the bonds between humans "in the game". Portraying it as like a Bonnie and Clyde "us against the world" thing that in the end just rings hollow as they usually end up betraying each other.
Now that I reread my comment it doesn't make it clear enough that the mafia life isn't actually the same as primitive life and just vaguely resembles it. Primitive life itself isn't necessarily a good thing either so mafia life is just a pale imitation of a mediocre life.
7 months ago
Anonymous
A lot of people are fricking morons. You should have figured this out by now.
7 months ago
Anonymous
as a bullied pushover, I enjoyed the power fantasy of being a mobster making money in a pure capitalistic way and being someone who took no shit because they could seriously hurt or even kill the insulter.
It's neither. It's not an instructive film, it's a commentary on society. Everyone agrees that Jordan is a prick who should be in jail and yet everyone also wants to be him and live that life. That's the point.
The whole movie is Belfort selling you the pen. There's multiple times when this is almost explicitly said and the final scene is entirely about how Jordan can still sucessfully trick the public with his whole schtick despite (you) having just spent almost four hours seeing how the sausage is made. Scorcese ends the movie calling the viewers a bunch of fools and they applaud him for it, just like they do with Belfort.
Marty isn't dumb but like others said it's a neutral movie. Even if Jordan doesn't look unappealing literally all of his friends do. Jonah hill has never looked or acted more disgusting in a role. All the other lame weirdos etc. But at the same time they were successful and living big. The cameo was probably begged for by irl Jordan. Plus it's his story and life anyway why shouldn't he have a little scene
>cautionary tale
usually have the opposite take. just look at how WALL ST inspired an entire gen of financebros. turns out they think risking everything including friends/family relationships is worth it for millions and 10/10 pussy.
kek seriously? GG gets sent to jail at the end and Buddys personal and familial relationships have all been destroyed due to the pursuit of endless wealth, how did this go over the heads of people
If you're interested or working in business I dont see how you can't be impressed by Belmont. Is it envy over him gaming a shitty system and living the life?
Not same but related, something I've learned as I scale the corporate ladder is to be ruthless. Some call it slimy but you need every advantage you got on your competition co-workers. I've gotta lay off 3 people this week coming and I sent the email about needing a discussion at 4:59pm last Friday. Give them a lil' bit of weekend fear before the killing blow
>Not same but related, something I've learned as I scale the corporate ladder is to be ruthless. Some call it slimy but you need every advantage you got on your competition co-workers. I've gotta lay off 3 people this week coming and I sent the email about needing a discussion at 4:59pm last Friday. Give them a lil' bit of weekend fear before the killing blow
cool story but what does laying off 3 people have to do with being ruthless and taking advantage over your co-workers
Thats how I got to the level of being able to lay them off. But basically take note of every failing they make and find creative ways to frick them over
Know they have an important client they're seeing tomorrow? Slash their tyres at night. Even if they work around it you're winning just adding stress to their worklife which has ripple effects
Bro all that’s required in that situation is to just be an average two-faced office worker like everyone else, like you just find subtle ways to upstage them or claim credit for their successes or whatever. Or bett yet don’t, because alliances and cooperative relationships are better for your career than being le ruthless. And no you don’t slash their tires you goddamn maniac
Make him unreliable to the client. Make him stressed about worklife. Make his life hell and him none the wiser. After all, you're his work mate he talks about films with. Couldn't be me
What's the economic advantage of making someone suffer for a weekend before laying them off. Better yet - if I'm in a financial position where I'm having to consider laying off employees, what is the economic advantage of letting them come in on Monday and get a partial day's salary before laying them off?
If you were my employee I'd fire you for losing me money on your petty powerplay bullshit.
Nothing, its just fun. They have 2 weeks notice to be told and i have been informed to let them know next week.
The meetings with each are already planted, anon. I have done nothing wrong. They have been informed in due time... a minute later, perhaps, and I'd be in trouble.
The entire point of the 'pen' test is to gauge whether or not an applicant understands the basic idea of sales - which is identifying a potential client's needs, whether you have a product that can fill some or all of those needs, and *then* persuading them that your product is the one they should purchase. Starting right in on the final step is the signs of a rookie salesman or a telemarketer - you're trying to sell them on how great your product is without even bothering to determine whether or not they're even in the market for what you're selling.
It's like a car salesman walking up to someone and immediately gushing about the all new 2025 Randomobile and its luxurious features and it's oh-so-reasonable new car price of just $35K and completely ignoring the fact that they just got dropped off by a bus and were perusing the old bangers in the under-$5K section of the lot.
People STILL keep on quoting this outdated "needs assessment" meme when it comes to Sales? Lmao.
People buy or subscribe to thousands of things they don't need all the time. You real strategy is to craft "The Need" for them. You'll get nowhere anymore with this pansy ass strategy and are being too optimistic about the human brain. Feed them garbage, live like a king amongst pigs.
This, sales is all meme magic conjuring of walking their mind through a forest and the clearing is the product they don’t need. The forest doesn’t exist, the need doesn’t exist.
No. >put it in my pocket >walk out
I actually did that at my first interview out of college for some sort of scam financial advising firm. It kinda worked and they offered me a job, but you had to pay back a big chunk of your commissions for "training fees" and whatnot so I just said I'm not interested and thanks for the pen. I still have it, actually. Was a good pen.
What do you use a pen for typically? Are you someone who wants a pen to use constantly all day? Or do you want something more ceremonial for important documents, maybe something with an engraving? I could sell you that pen but I'd rather sell you the pen that would work best for what you need it for.
Its a stupid request because in any actual situation you would have a client in need of a writing utensil and you would guide that need into that specific pen.
Without a need your only option is to start ranting how awesome the pen is or list stats which is a meaningless excercise.
Certainly, I appreciate your interest in the art of selling. Allow me to elucidate the multifaceted virtues of this exceptional writing instrument, transcending the mere tangible facets of its existence.
This pen, meticulously crafted from the finest materials, exudes an aura of sophistication and elegance. Its sleek, aerodynamic design not only appeals to the aesthetic sensibilities of the beholder but also seamlessly integrates form and function. The nib, delicately engineered, ensures a smooth and effortless writing experience, allowing the ink to flow with an almost ethereal grace, leaving behind a trail of eloquent expressions.
However, the true brilliance of this pen lies in its ability to catalyze the metamorphosis of abstract thoughts into tangible words, giving shape and substance to the vast expanse of human imagination. It is a conduit, a bridge between the ethereal realm of ideas and the palpable world of reality. With each stroke, it captures the essence of creativity, enabling you to articulate your dreams, aspirations, and intellect in a symphony of ink.
Moreover, this pen is not merely an instrument; it is a statement. A testament to your discerning taste, a reflection of your refined personality. It is a reminder of the power of the written word, the ability to influence, inspire, and communicate with a depth that transcends the limitations of verbal dialogue.
In essence, this pen is not just an object; it is an experience. An experience that encapsulates the essence of human expression, encapsulated within the confines of its slender frame. So, I implore you to seize this opportunity, to embrace the profound journey of self-discovery and creativity that this pen represents. Let it be your companion in the odyssey of life, a faithful scribe to document your thoughts, dreams, and achievements, and a cherished heirloom to pass down through generations, carrying forward the legacy of your wisdom and imagination.
THE FLIGHT PLAN I JUST FILED WITH THE AGENCY LISTS ME, MY MEN, DOCTOR PAVEL HERE, BUT ONLY ONE OF YOU! FIRST ONE TO BUY THIS PEN GETS TO STAY ON MY AIRCRAFT!
>instead illegally manipulate the market to create a desperate artificial need for pens people have to take out predatory loans to afford >your country becomes a desperately poor hellhole full of pens no one wants or actually needs, but is obligated to own because of the system you've created because you need a new gold urinal for your private bathroom.
you're thinking too small
OWS failed because it got flooded by people with conflicting agendas that distracted from the underlying message of economic reform.
Bernie's a wrinkly commie homosexual who has never and will never stand a chance.
You can acknowledge that powerful business interests actively lobby the government or conspire with one another in order to create artificial needs and scarcity in the market without being a nutter or a communist.
This is true especially within the energy and pharmaceutical industries, but to extend that shit to basic consumer products just reeks of butthurt and ignorance. It's often much more lucrative for one corporation to betray the others and make 10 cents profit a unit than continue collaborating and making a dollar profit a unit.
>You can acknowledge that powerful business interests actively lobby the government or conspire with one another in order to create artificial needs and scarcity in the market without being a nutter or a communist.
Amazingly enough a dismaying amount of the American people were convinced of the exact opposite as a result of OWS. Even commies will think you are also a commie if you speak against the corporate oligarchy that runs this country.
Or maybe people saw a bunch of dirty smelly hippies with no actual plan who devolved into drum circles and the progressive stack of their own accord because surprise surprise people without even a basic understanding of economics don't make the greatest advocates - hence why the communist manifesto was written by an economist and business owner.
You’re not supposed to sell the pen, you’re supposed to deprive him of a pen and create a situation where he needs a pen to acquire something else, like a cheque for $1,000,000 (or rather the promise of). That’s exactly how college educations work, btw
The real guy has the answer to this. Basically the point of the challenge is that if someone isnt in the market for a pen you move on to the next person instead of trying to sell someone a pen they dont want.
This is one thing that people (including a lot of cringey sales people) misunderstand about sales. It isnt about trying to hoodwink the customer in to buying something with mental tricks. It's about having a potential customer and making sure they get linked up with a product that matches their needs and letting them make their own decision, while giving them all of the info and options on your product that is important for them to weigh up. If your product doesnt do it for them then no amount of salesmanship is going to change that.
All you're doing by trying to sell the pen to someone who gives resistance is wasting your time.
Hot boomer take this
Your job is to create the need for the customer out of thin air
You lead them into believing they have a gap in their life and your product is the answer
This is the philosophy of sales in our modern, cynical and israelited world where our entire economic system is just scams funded with scams leveraged against scams betting against scams supported by scams: Sell someone something they don't need and, if necessary, create an illusionary or government-imposed need so they're compelled to buy it, even if they don't want it, and if that fails just outright swindle or rob them. But it wasn't always so. Boomers got to grow up in the latter, and then promptly sold everyone out to the former.
Business had changed
Yes. Business has changed, but not for the better.
>Men are men. They like to live fast, hard and go out young. That’s the based way to do it at least. Not sure why society is so obsessed with heckin wholesome cautionary tales, to what? Artificially extend your life way too long so some broad has a chance to divorce you or you get enslaved?
Whatever happened to that warning about "the stories and information posted here are falsehoods. only a fool would take them as fact" we use to have on the banner
>this thread is still alive
I swear to God this was from yesterday. I know what you're thinking; >anon, we had the same thread yesterday as well as the day before, you silly goose!
But all the replies are the same, including my own. I do not recall posting in this thread this morning, but evidently I did.
What's happening to me?
>It still smells like the ass of that secretary
>takes pen
>wanna see a magic trick?
It's NFT
It's an epic frickin pen my dude
situation: you've been asked to prove your gender by putting a marker in your pooper
you can have this pen for 5 simple dollars.
sell me this cia
Buy now and you'll receive a free flight plan with your purchase, we'll even call it in for you!
Can I bring friends?
Leonardo Da Vinci passes you the blunt, do you accept?
>takes pen
>stick it in his mouth
>chews on it for 5 minutes
>takes it out
>puts it in his anus
>says i am such a homosexual
what did leo mean by this?
>"no, you're the one here teaching us"
It blows my mind how so many men misunderstand this film and think this is how they should act when it’s clearly a cautionary tale to not be fricking that
Npc take. He won
>going to prison and then becoming a crypto scammer is winning
weird take
He fulfilled his What A Life quota in record timing, and essentially got off Scot free. He still lives a cushy later life on his book sales which also give him fame and fans
Face it chud, he Won
>Face it chud, he Won
i thought his fans were the chuds...
this is such a meaningless fricking word
He was only in for 22 months in a nice kid gloves prison.
>take
twitter homosexual spotted
Scorsese doesn't even come close the degeneracy I'm sure that disgusting israelite got away with
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT PRISON
Absolutely braindead take.
>I'm not ashamed to admit it. When we arrived to prison, I was absolutely terrified. But I needn't have been. See, for a brief fleeting moment, I'd forgotten I was rich and I lived in a place where everything was for sale. Wouldn't you like to learn how to sell it?
Who on earth would trust this guy after the movie?
Desperate morons, morons who over estimate their ability, morons who underestimate their own abilities, morons who love being attracted to infamous people.
Martin Shkreli has an entire legion of sycophants regardless of the fact that he immediately started scamming people the second he got out of prison.
That scene of the FBI guy riding the subway contrast with Jordan in prison playing tennis liks it's a country club tells me he's right
i think the point of the contrast between those scenes is that society doesnt reward moral behaviour. The cop was morally right for putting Jordan away. Jordan had ruined thousands of peoples lives and scammed them out of all of their money.
Marty is trying to show through the film what an evil manipulative man he is. But society will never punish him for his misdeeds because society values sociopathic, manipulative behaviour. Not just or moral behaviour.
We idolize the very people that frick us over and see us as cattle, while the heroes trying to put them away get to ride the subway.
Big brained take, I wish Marty had pressed this home a little harder for me and the other brainlets. And as I said earlier, I still think he undercuts the moral by rewarding Belfort with a cameo. Unless... shit, was that intentional meta commentary?
yeh but it makes Jordan look like a dumbass by not realizing the movie's criticizing him and his evil lifestyle. But belfort did make a ton of money from that movie
Only if it's clearly a criticism, which is my whole point. Scorsese didn't do a good enough job getting that across. If I were Belfort I would also point to WoWS and say "frick yeah, look at me." Because who got hurt?
yeh you're right. Belfort clearly thinks it makes him look cool
>muh cautionary tale
Men are men. They like to live fast, hard and go out young. That’s the based way to do it at least. Not sure why society is so obsessed with heckin wholesome cautionary tales, to what? Artificially extend your life way too long so some broad has a chance to divorce you or you get enslaved?
>so some broad has a chance to divorce you or you get enslaved
unlike him?
Belmont was banging a different broad every night, doubt he cared much about divorcing his b***h
you think like a Black person
That intention was undercut by having Belfort himself in a cameo role. Unless the real intent was to show how corrupt the system is because he got off so lightly.
>Unless the real intent was to show how corrupt the system is because he got off so lightly.
that was part of it, remember how he said he was afraid of prison because he forgot he was rich, and it was relaxing with tennis courts and shit. The reason there's a book at all is because Chong from cheech and chong was his roommate and enjoyed Belfort's stories and said he should write a book.
That's interesting, I wasn't aware. Apparently Chong had to advise him against ripping off Bonfire of the Vanities verbatim.
Still, it feels like the film's message suffers from glamorizing his lifestyle. On the other hand, it was glamorous, so I'm not sure what Scorsese could have done differently. Maybe depict more of the fallout suffered by the people he swindled? I seem to remember Boiler Room doing that.
yeh it's kinda crazy how faceless his victims were in the movie, you just see moments of jordan and his friends laughing at them for falling for his "sales expertise". It really hits harder when you start investing yourself and you realize you have to watch out for the likes of people like Jordan.
This is the scene, right at the end when he goes to jail, the penultimate scene in the movie
>yeh it's kinda crazy how faceless his victims were in the movie
Succinctly put, that perfectly sums up my complaint with it. It didn't show you why you should think he's a disgusting butthole instead of just an incorrigible rogue. Apparently others had the same gripe.
>Christina McDowell, daughter of Tom Prousalis, who worked closely with Belfort at Stratton Oakmont, wrote an open letter to Scorsese, DiCaprio, and Belfort, criticizing the film for insufficiently portraying the victims of Stratton Oakmont's financial crimes, disregarding the damage done to her family as a result, and giving celebrity status to people (Belfort and his partners, including her father) who do not deserve it.
>Steven Perlberg of Business Insider saw an advance screening of the film at a Regal Cinemas near the Goldman Sachs building with an audience of finance workers. Perlberg reported cheers from the audience at what he considered all the wrong moments, writing, "When Belfort—a drug addict attempting to remain sober—rips up a couch cushion to get to his secret coke stash, there were cheers."
I know stories like this will always be misread by shitty people, just like Gordon Gekko was, but I think there's tangible blame to be laid on Scorsese.
>"When Belfort—a drug addict attempting to remain sober—rips up a couch cushion to get to his secret coke stash, there were cheers."
Oh boo fricking hoo. Yes, morons idolize the criminals they're not supposed to. Every single show or movie with an "antihero" has to had to deal with this before. Maybe nobody gives a shit because we learn this is a system about risks and rewards. There weren't bumpkins who had never heard about the internet or the stock market before getting cold called at Stratton Oakmont, it was whales who saw dollar signs in their eyes rather than doing their due diligence.
People always complain about Scorcese "glamorizing" crime because he's filming these movies from the perspectives of how the criminals thought of themselves. A moment I'm always drawn to is the beginning of Goodfellas is how Henry's talking about how the mafia were just a neighborhood watch for the places cops didn't care about, and the very next sequence is about Tommy beating up the bar owner rather than paying his own tab, the bar owner running to Butchie for protection, and Butchie proceeding to run him out of business and torching the property for insurance money. This isn't commented upon because Henry is still fully bought into his delusions about the mafia, unlike the scene of Spider getting killed where Henry clearly thought things went "too far."
marty was a sickly child who rarely left his home and only observed the street kids from from afar and therefore developed a warped and unrealistic perception of them that he went on to make movies about that everyone took as sacrosanct depictions cause he was good at it
Fair point. When his is goal to give the criminal POV, I know it would be obtrusive to the narrative to keep saying "remember kids, this is BAD." But I feel like it was handled better in Goodfellas. Even when Henry doesn't think it's a big deal, you often hear his callous monologues juxtaposed with seeing the actual suffering of the victims.
He does glamorize crime. Stop your mental gymnastics.
Btw the way the mind works is you rememebr the 1 hour 20 minutes of glamour, if he does get his commupence in the last 5 minutes, it is too late, your Brian will remember the 1 hour twenty minutes more than the 5 minutes.
Movies are pure evil social programming
OK Charls, how about you watch some behind the scenes footage and cure your psychosis instead of sending death threats to David Chase for once.
>He does glamorize crime. Stop your mental gymnastics.
Anyone who disagrees with this is fooling themselves.
Schizo homosexual.
nice digits
Yeh goodfellas was real good at reminding that Henry was a scumbag who didn't care who got hurt, like when the mobsters threaten the fricking mailman and Henry just stands there, almost like an adult, watching that mailman's life being threatened, to the point that Henry's family doesn't get any mail at all. No regard to consequences at all. Interesting is when the film moves on in its narrative and the idealized doo wop of the 50s, 60s, and early 70s becomes hard rock and the movie turns paranoid and edgy.
>marty was a sickly child who rarely left his home and only observed the street kids from from afar and therefore developed a warped and unrealistic perception of them
That's a very good point. He put himself in movies like Mean Streets through Keitel's desire to be a good catholic, but also made his stand in be a low level mobster doing mobster stuff.
yeh, he does shit like this, and I tell you, this movie came out my freshman year of college and we all idolized it. Took at as a motivation to get fricked up and get rich any which way. He's kinda like the version Andrew Tate that had no useful advice or motivation at all
>this movie came out my freshman year of college and we all idolized it
Doesn't surprise me at that age. Even if Scorsese had covered all the bases we've been talking about, that probably would have been the case. I'm about a decade older, Fight Club got me and my boys the same way. But I wonder what is it about mob movies? I know otherwise reasonable people my age who still fantasize about being Tony Soprano, Scarface, etc. Like their brains refuse to absorb the final act. I remember one friend, who loves mob movies, hating Black Mass because Bulger "didn't seem cool."
Being a mobster is the closest to primitive life one can get. You hang out with men of varying ages, many of them related to you. Living in a dangerous environment where you gotta be tough and keep your wits about you. Screwing over anyone who isn't part of your tribe. If you are tough, smart and ruthless you are rewarded with riches and women, meritocracy with no office politics BS (reality can often be different but the ideal is this). It has an instinctual pull where you have to use your brain to get beyond that initial:
>Man this is cool
Impression and realize the consequences of behaving like this.
>meritocracy with no office politics BS (reality can often be different but the ideal is this).
This is one of the things the Sopranos did really well, drove in the similarities between the "glamorous" mob life and the realities that it was very similar to many other american jobs.
one of the youtubers pointed out how that sigh is a lot like the kind of sigh you may give before doing something you don't want to during work.
>Being a mobster is the closest to primitive life one can get.
I appreciate that you understood the message that these guys aren't to emulated, anon, but I think this analysis is still fundamentally flawed that it borders on the type of romanticization that I'm talking about. Mobs can only exist when there's a society to take advantage of and laws to operate outside of. These guys seem cool because they flout the rules that bind others. I think the more honest answer, that a lot of people don't want to admit to themselves, is this
I think I never fell prey to that because I'm so guileless that I always identify with the poor mook who keeps his head down, stays loyal and does as he's told, and then gets fricked anyway. And there's always one, to illustrate that the meritocracy is a false promise by the psychos who screw over anyone they need to, tribe or not.
Anon, anon, anon, anon. You're glib.
Yeah, the power fantasy thing is a big part of it that I failed to mention. These mafia shows/movies usually have one of these moments where an average Joe would clench their fist in their pocket but a criminal can do whatever they want. Like the scene in Goodfellas where the main character brutally beats up a guy who molested his girlfriend. However I don't think the power fantasy of being able to hurt whoever you want is the whole picture. These movies/shows have large parts of them devoted to the bonds between humans "in the game". Portraying it as like a Bonnie and Clyde "us against the world" thing that in the end just rings hollow as they usually end up betraying each other.
Now that I reread my comment it doesn't make it clear enough that the mafia life isn't actually the same as primitive life and just vaguely resembles it. Primitive life itself isn't necessarily a good thing either so mafia life is just a pale imitation of a mediocre life.
A lot of people are fricking morons. You should have figured this out by now.
as a bullied pushover, I enjoyed the power fantasy of being a mobster making money in a pure capitalistic way and being someone who took no shit because they could seriously hurt or even kill the insulter.
Upvoted.
ok which men?
It's neither. It's not an instructive film, it's a commentary on society. Everyone agrees that Jordan is a prick who should be in jail and yet everyone also wants to be him and live that life. That's the point.
It is what it is.
I'd rather live as a gigarich playboy and die young
If you want to die young just go out and OD on fentanyl.
The whole movie is Belfort selling you the pen. There's multiple times when this is almost explicitly said and the final scene is entirely about how Jordan can still sucessfully trick the public with his whole schtick despite (you) having just spent almost four hours seeing how the sausage is made. Scorcese ends the movie calling the viewers a bunch of fools and they applaud him for it, just like they do with Belfort.
Another big brained take, but I have to wonder if you're giving Marty more credit than he deserves.
>multiple times
Can you give some examples?
Watch Silence if you doubt ol' Marty's big brainedness. It's the movie he made right after twows btw.
Marty isn't dumb but like others said it's a neutral movie. Even if Jordan doesn't look unappealing literally all of his friends do. Jonah hill has never looked or acted more disgusting in a role. All the other lame weirdos etc. But at the same time they were successful and living big. The cameo was probably begged for by irl Jordan. Plus it's his story and life anyway why shouldn't he have a little scene
Exactly
>cautionary tale
usually have the opposite take. just look at how WALL ST inspired an entire gen of financebros. turns out they think risking everything including friends/family relationships is worth it for millions and 10/10 pussy.
kek seriously? GG gets sent to jail at the end and Buddys personal and familial relationships have all been destroyed due to the pursuit of endless wealth, how did this go over the heads of people
Celebs talking about their favorite movie
This is the pen that Goku beat Frieza with. I’ve got ten people willing to pay 10k for it, but I’ll give it to you now for 50k.
>Do you want to stick something up your ass, I have a pen.
If you're interested or working in business I dont see how you can't be impressed by Belmont. Is it envy over him gaming a shitty system and living the life?
Not same but related, something I've learned as I scale the corporate ladder is to be ruthless. Some call it slimy but you need every advantage you got on your competition co-workers. I've gotta lay off 3 people this week coming and I sent the email about needing a discussion at 4:59pm last Friday. Give them a lil' bit of weekend fear before the killing blow
>Not same but related, something I've learned as I scale the corporate ladder is to be ruthless. Some call it slimy but you need every advantage you got on your competition co-workers. I've gotta lay off 3 people this week coming and I sent the email about needing a discussion at 4:59pm last Friday. Give them a lil' bit of weekend fear before the killing blow
cool story but what does laying off 3 people have to do with being ruthless and taking advantage over your co-workers
Thats how I got to the level of being able to lay them off. But basically take note of every failing they make and find creative ways to frick them over
Know they have an important client they're seeing tomorrow? Slash their tyres at night. Even if they work around it you're winning just adding stress to their worklife which has ripple effects
that's not ruthless it's psychotic
>it's psychotic
welcome to capitalism
do you actually think managers slash their employees tires, reddit? like come on
Bro all that’s required in that situation is to just be an average two-faced office worker like everyone else, like you just find subtle ways to upstage them or claim credit for their successes or whatever. Or bett yet don’t, because alliances and cooperative relationships are better for your career than being le ruthless. And no you don’t slash their tires you goddamn maniac
how the frick does slashing someone's tyres help you advance?
Make him unreliable to the client. Make him stressed about worklife. Make his life hell and him none the wiser. After all, you're his work mate he talks about films with. Couldn't be me
How's that assistant manager position at Wendy's working out?
What's the economic advantage of making someone suffer for a weekend before laying them off. Better yet - if I'm in a financial position where I'm having to consider laying off employees, what is the economic advantage of letting them come in on Monday and get a partial day's salary before laying them off?
If you were my employee I'd fire you for losing me money on your petty powerplay bullshit.
Nothing, its just fun. They have 2 weeks notice to be told and i have been informed to let them know next week.
The meetings with each are already planted, anon. I have done nothing wrong. They have been informed in due time... a minute later, perhaps, and I'd be in trouble.
>Nothing, its just fun.
Yeah, no, that's actual psychopathy. Should we be checking the floorboards of your apartment for the corpses of missing pets?
You're just power tripping, that's not the same as being cutthroat.
You reek of a mediocre salary. I bet you don't own the car you drive.
Which Best Buy are you assistant manager at?
He can safely deliver both Smee Maimen and Dr. Paveleer in just one flight for an affordable price.
It's my favorite pen and is not for sale because it has lots of sentimental value to me.
*waits for reverse psychology to kick in*
The classic Pen Sale test is a solved question.
sounds like regular corporate dronespeak. the kind that makes me commit violent acts.
>the kind that makes me commit violent acts.
You won't do shit, fat boy.
look outside your window homosexual
This is literally failing the test.
The entire point of the 'pen' test is to gauge whether or not an applicant understands the basic idea of sales - which is identifying a potential client's needs, whether you have a product that can fill some or all of those needs, and *then* persuading them that your product is the one they should purchase. Starting right in on the final step is the signs of a rookie salesman or a telemarketer - you're trying to sell them on how great your product is without even bothering to determine whether or not they're even in the market for what you're selling.
It's like a car salesman walking up to someone and immediately gushing about the all new 2025 Randomobile and its luxurious features and it's oh-so-reasonable new car price of just $35K and completely ignoring the fact that they just got dropped off by a bus and were perusing the old bangers in the under-$5K section of the lot.
The AI has a lot to learn.
People STILL keep on quoting this outdated "needs assessment" meme when it comes to Sales? Lmao.
People buy or subscribe to thousands of things they don't need all the time. You real strategy is to craft "The Need" for them. You'll get nowhere anymore with this pansy ass strategy and are being too optimistic about the human brain. Feed them garbage, live like a king amongst pigs.
This, sales is all meme magic conjuring of walking their mind through a forest and the clearing is the product they don’t need. The forest doesn’t exist, the need doesn’t exist.
It sounds like the fatass who failed the test
>i-it's a nice pen... it writes good...
it was hitlers pen. he signed directive 66 with it
You don't have pen to write, this pen can do just that and you can kill all the Black folk you ever want with it.
*takes pen and puts it in my pocket*
>thanks for the free pen
No.
>put it in my pocket
>walk out
I actually did that at my first interview out of college for some sort of scam financial advising firm. It kinda worked and they offered me a job, but you had to pay back a big chunk of your commissions for "training fees" and whatnot so I just said I'm not interested and thanks for the pen. I still have it, actually. Was a good pen.
What do you use a pen for typically? Are you someone who wants a pen to use constantly all day? Or do you want something more ceremonial for important documents, maybe something with an engraving? I could sell you that pen but I'd rather sell you the pen that would work best for what you need it for.
This guy is a slimy israelite in real life by the way
>t. mad broker
Its a stupid request because in any actual situation you would have a client in need of a writing utensil and you would guide that need into that specific pen.
Without a need your only option is to start ranting how awesome the pen is or list stats which is a meaningless excercise.
You just described cold calling. Ya know, the entire telemarketing industry
Certainly, I appreciate your interest in the art of selling. Allow me to elucidate the multifaceted virtues of this exceptional writing instrument, transcending the mere tangible facets of its existence.
This pen, meticulously crafted from the finest materials, exudes an aura of sophistication and elegance. Its sleek, aerodynamic design not only appeals to the aesthetic sensibilities of the beholder but also seamlessly integrates form and function. The nib, delicately engineered, ensures a smooth and effortless writing experience, allowing the ink to flow with an almost ethereal grace, leaving behind a trail of eloquent expressions.
However, the true brilliance of this pen lies in its ability to catalyze the metamorphosis of abstract thoughts into tangible words, giving shape and substance to the vast expanse of human imagination. It is a conduit, a bridge between the ethereal realm of ideas and the palpable world of reality. With each stroke, it captures the essence of creativity, enabling you to articulate your dreams, aspirations, and intellect in a symphony of ink.
Moreover, this pen is not merely an instrument; it is a statement. A testament to your discerning taste, a reflection of your refined personality. It is a reminder of the power of the written word, the ability to influence, inspire, and communicate with a depth that transcends the limitations of verbal dialogue.
In essence, this pen is not just an object; it is an experience. An experience that encapsulates the essence of human expression, encapsulated within the confines of its slender frame. So, I implore you to seize this opportunity, to embrace the profound journey of self-discovery and creativity that this pen represents. Let it be your companion in the odyssey of life, a faithful scribe to document your thoughts, dreams, and achievements, and a cherished heirloom to pass down through generations, carrying forward the legacy of your wisdom and imagination.
It was between Sydney Sweeney's sweatyboobs
Just say 'thank you so much' and take it into your pocket.
You're the one selling me something right now. I don't buy it. You lose.
>Pulls out a gun
Buy this pen or I'll fricking shoot you
>Sell me this pen
>Uh, okay. Give me ten dollars and it's yours.
I'LL TAKE EIGHT!
now you're becoming a crafty consumer
>I am not here to sell you a pen.
/drops pen/
>I'm here to sell you a dream.
if you dont buy the pen ill kill your family and then you
THE FLIGHT PLAN I JUST FILED WITH THE AGENCY LISTS ME, MY MEN, DOCTOR PAVEL HERE, BUT ONLY ONE OF YOU! FIRST ONE TO BUY THIS PEN GETS TO STAY ON MY AIRCRAFT!
SO WHATS THE NEXT PART OF YOUR MASTER PEN?
Woah. You are an IMAGEBOARD FRICKING TERRORIST
>Take it and put it in your inside pocket ask him: "What pen?"
>The one is just gave to you.
>You need it back?
>$$$
Devious. You're hired.
it has an eraser at the bottom for when you'll eventually need to switch to pencil and obviously will post mostly retarted shit
>take pen
>stick through a folded piece of paper
>UNDERSTAND?
SAAR DO NOT REDEEM THE PEN DO NOT REDEEM
>give applicant a pen and ask him to sell it to me
>he preps for a minute
>hello sir, are you in the market for a pen?
>"No."
>instead illegally manipulate the market to create a desperate artificial need for pens people have to take out predatory loans to afford
>your country becomes a desperately poor hellhole full of pens no one wants or actually needs, but is obligated to own because of the system you've created because you need a new gold urinal for your private bathroom.
you're thinking too small
yeah yeah and porky and the CIA are why occupy wall st failed and here's how bernie can still win
OWS failed because it got flooded by people with conflicting agendas that distracted from the underlying message of economic reform.
Bernie's a wrinkly commie homosexual who has never and will never stand a chance.
You can acknowledge that powerful business interests actively lobby the government or conspire with one another in order to create artificial needs and scarcity in the market without being a nutter or a communist.
This is true especially within the energy and pharmaceutical industries, but to extend that shit to basic consumer products just reeks of butthurt and ignorance. It's often much more lucrative for one corporation to betray the others and make 10 cents profit a unit than continue collaborating and making a dollar profit a unit.
>You can acknowledge that powerful business interests actively lobby the government or conspire with one another in order to create artificial needs and scarcity in the market without being a nutter or a communist.
Amazingly enough a dismaying amount of the American people were convinced of the exact opposite as a result of OWS. Even commies will think you are also a commie if you speak against the corporate oligarchy that runs this country.
Or maybe people saw a bunch of dirty smelly hippies with no actual plan who devolved into drum circles and the progressive stack of their own accord because surprise surprise people without even a basic understanding of economics don't make the greatest advocates - hence why the communist manifesto was written by an economist and business owner.
>they CIA dindu nuffin!
Apart from all the times they did.
what pen?
You’re not supposed to sell the pen, you’re supposed to deprive him of a pen and create a situation where he needs a pen to acquire something else, like a cheque for $1,000,000 (or rather the promise of). That’s exactly how college educations work, btw
>I'll shove it up your ads if you don't take it
The real guy has the answer to this. Basically the point of the challenge is that if someone isnt in the market for a pen you move on to the next person instead of trying to sell someone a pen they dont want.
This is one thing that people (including a lot of cringey sales people) misunderstand about sales. It isnt about trying to hoodwink the customer in to buying something with mental tricks. It's about having a potential customer and making sure they get linked up with a product that matches their needs and letting them make their own decision, while giving them all of the info and options on your product that is important for them to weigh up. If your product doesnt do it for them then no amount of salesmanship is going to change that.
All you're doing by trying to sell the pen to someone who gives resistance is wasting your time.
Hot boomer take this
Your job is to create the need for the customer out of thin air
You lead them into believing they have a gap in their life and your product is the answer
Jordan Belfort disagrees with you
Business had changed
anon... the film is literally about him
Big if true
This is the philosophy of sales in our modern, cynical and israelited world where our entire economic system is just scams funded with scams leveraged against scams betting against scams supported by scams: Sell someone something they don't need and, if necessary, create an illusionary or government-imposed need so they're compelled to buy it, even if they don't want it, and if that fails just outright swindle or rob them. But it wasn't always so. Boomers got to grow up in the latter, and then promptly sold everyone out to the former.
Yes. Business has changed, but not for the better.
Interesting. But why the Batfink pic?
I just think it's neat!
>owning this pen is like having status and it's consequences
Now there's a man who understands the art of the trade
pen is pen is pen is pen is hard
Buy the pen or we are gonna do some practice takes right frickin now
>this isn't just a pen, it's your future as a best-selling worldwide auteur
Kill the salesman
It never turns 25
Ill sell you my expensive watch for half its value. I only take checks, though.
you don't want this pen, why don't I show you something more affordable for your price range?
>you don’t support black-owned businesses?
>Men are men. They like to live fast, hard and go out young. That’s the based way to do it at least. Not sure why society is so obsessed with heckin wholesome cautionary tales, to what? Artificially extend your life way too long so some broad has a chance to divorce you or you get enslaved?
Yes, that image is a good example of the men being described
People in the image don't exist right? That's just too absurd
I preemptively tell all sales people to frick off
So they never gets chance to work their “magic” on me
>pencels be seething over inkchads
real homies know Boiler Room is the true kino
Come on, buy it!
Whatever happened to that warning about "the stories and information posted here are falsehoods. only a fool would take them as fact" we use to have on the banner
>buy the pen or you're gay
Explain why this wouldn't work.
>this thread is still alive
I swear to God this was from yesterday. I know what you're thinking;
>anon, we had the same thread yesterday as well as the day before, you silly goose!
But all the replies are the same, including my own. I do not recall posting in this thread this morning, but evidently I did.
What's happening to me?
>
You kill the guy with the pen, then take his wallet , like jason bourne, the bad ass