It means he completely misunderstood what the Dark History is supposed to be, just like how he misunderstands basically everything about Gundam, all the while forcing his psychoframe fetish into everything he can get his hands on, including stuff that isn’t his own idea
No, he's correct. The Black History ie clearly shown in Turn A to be the result of man's unchanging nature that ultimately culminates in (repeated) destruction. It is not meant to be a "final judgement" by outside observers. To make it into Space Ghosts acting as the Ide cheapens all of it, especially Turn A's message of man learning to overcome himself and history's cycles.
>The Black History ie clearly shown in Turn A to be the result of man's unchanging nature that ultimately culminates in (repeated) destruction
Honestly even in the original the Turn A Gundam anime that shit didn't make any sense. If we're strictly speaking about the UC timeline then yes, but adding other timelines into it makes the entire unnecessarily complicated for the sake of it.
Tomino’s intent with the Dark History was that it was a framework based on the concepts of constant, un-ending fighting and how history can be manipulated. The reason why all the AUs are shown alongside UC in the the Dark History is just another example of that. During production, some of the staff explicitly sought out historians to get an understanding on how history can differ from place to place. The main example they used is how ancient Japan’s independence from China is often taught differently of how it actually happened from country to country, or more bluntly, how certain nations can say something they did bad never happened and it was someone else’s fault. That’s where the AUs come in. How everything merged into the Correct Century is anyone’s guess and it was intentionally left vague because it didn’t particularly matter, it was all about the concept of never ending fighting and the various other Gundam shows and the wars we see in them fit that narrative. It all leads to destruction inevitably and the Turn A unleashing the Moonlight Butterfly was just one example of that. It’s why the timelines Sunrise released around the time Seed came out just showed all the AUs and the UC join together into the CC. In a way it’s not even concretely saying that X or Wing became CC, but more so that history can differ greatly and those universes could’ve been the ‘main’ one all along instead of UC for example. It’s all symbolic but Fukui seems to have taken that as ‘Everything is on one set timeline and the Turn A resets it all every 10,000 years with the magical power of space ghosts and muh Ideframe’
Tomino’s intent with the Dark History was that it was a framework based on the concepts of constant, un-ending fighting and how history can be manipulated. The reason why all the AUs are shown alongside UC in the the Dark History is just another example of that. During production, some of the staff explicitly sought out historians to get an understanding on how history can differ from place to place. The main example they used is how ancient Japan’s independence from China is often taught differently of how it actually happened from country to country, or more bluntly, how certain nations can say something they did bad never happened and it was someone else’s fault. That’s where the AUs come in. How everything merged into the Correct Century is anyone’s guess and it was intentionally left vague because it didn’t particularly matter, it was all about the concept of never ending fighting and the various other Gundam shows and the wars we see in them fit that narrative. It all leads to destruction inevitably and the Turn A unleashing the Moonlight Butterfly was just one example of that. It’s why the timelines Sunrise released around the time Seed came out just showed all the AUs and the UC join together into the CC. In a way it’s not even concretely saying that X or Wing became CC, but more so that history can differ greatly and those universes could’ve been the ‘main’ one all along instead of UC for example. It’s all symbolic but Fukui seems to have taken that as ‘Everything is on one set timeline and the Turn A resets it all every 10,000 years with the magical power of space ghosts and muh Ideframe’
While I agree about the symbolic meaning being the most important aspect of the Dark History, I also think it was intended to be literal. Tomino's novel's timeline explicitly referrences the Devil Gundam anf DG cells. Corin Nander's flashbacks likewise are clrearly meant to correspond with Quatre blowing blowing up that colony with the Wing Zero. I also think it was an idea that worked better at the time when Turn A was first released than does now.
When Turn A was released, there were only the 90's au trilogy of G Gundam(60 years of backstory), Wing(200 years), and X(15 years). Saying those three shows occurred in a 10,000 year timespan between Victory Gundam and Turn A didn't stretch credibility, as together they only take up less than 300 years. And Turn A ending there were 3 years before Seed made, so idea had time really set in.
Now you've got the problems with having to accommodate CE, AG, PD, AS, plus possibly Regild depending on whether it's after or before Turn A, plus the mess explaining 00, either having to say it occurred before UC(killing a sacred cow), or saying that after the end of the Universal Century Calendar everyone reverted to the old AD calendar(which nominally puts a time limit on how long after it can come after UC). You're only other option is saying frick it and just insisting it has to be it's own completely separate universe.
In short, it was a nice idea that worked at the time, but probably should have not been applied to the post Turn A works.
When you say Tomino’s Turn A novels do you mean the ones with the Dark History Turn A that can teleport colony lasers into wienerpits? Because those were written by, guess who, Fukui. The Wing Zero cameo was also added entirely by the staff. They included it in as a little Easter egg and had to persuade Tomino to keep it in and he eventually relented because he thought it fit the concept anyway. So Corin was never even intended to be from AC, it just sorta turned out that way because of a little reference that some animators snuck in that Tomino relented on.
In regards to it being literal, I’ve got no idea. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t. I do know that it was all intentionally kept vague on purpose and the main takeaway the viewer was supposed to focus on was the cycle of war, though given the community that might’ve been a bit of a crazy ask considering how big of a bombshell it is
10 months ago
Anonymous
>When you say Tomino’s Turn A novels do you mean the ones with the Dark History Turn A that can teleport colony lasers into wienerpits? Because those were written by, guess who, Fukui
This has been debunked both by users on the gundam wikia (imagine that) and redditors. The Turn A is hinted to teleport once in the novel and then at the end it teleports from the Keilas Guile command center on the moon to the Earth to block the giant laser.
Moreover, while it does have a psycommu system of some sort and has a Unicorn colony laser moment, it's ultimately destroyed after stopping 2 shots. It's stated that it could reform around the intact wienerlander after hundreds or thousands of years though. Its nanomachines also destroyed its civilization by disrupting the nanomachines that were pervasive throughout human society, ranging from building materials, to agriculture, machinery, and more, acting almost like a master nanomachine that can reprogram them.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>This has been debunked both by users on the gundam wikia (imagine that) and redditors. The Turn A is hinted to teleport once in the novel
It teleports in the damn show. Loran does it on accident and Gym thinks it became invisible but the supplementary materials from the time confirm it teleported.
You're spreading misunderstandings and horseshit made up by redditors and wikia.
10 months ago
Anonymous
When you say Tomino’s Turn A novels do you mean the ones with the Dark History Turn A that can teleport colony lasers into wienerpits? Because those were written by, guess who, Fukui.
It's actually a book by Tomino called Turn A Gundam Complete Record Collection Volume 2: The Memory of Second Wind. It also is refferenced quite a bit in G Reco.
>It also is refferenced quite a bit in G Reco.
G Reco is more blatantly based on Ring of Gundam, down to the story beats. Although everything got better in G-Reco's world. Instead of being a machinized world made up nanomachines it's all natural on Earth, and the Rose of Hermes's plan is to outright move the planet to another galaxy once the Venus Globes arrays are completed, rather than the Ring colony's goal of moving part of humanity to another star sytem to rebuild humanity somewhere better.
Moreover, the Beauty Memory, a relic from the destroyed UC, in Ring of Memory actually talks about the infinite cycle of life and the universe, and how life is burdened with the task of not destroying itself. This is more inline with Turn A's themes, something that Fukui is obviously referencing. G-Reco is about moving on from a burdensome past, somewhat naively and rashly.
10 months ago
Anonymous
You seem to have missed my point.
All right, but that has nothing to do with the fact DG Cells are part of Turn A's history by Tomino's own pen. Deal with it. Don't like imagining G Gundam happened at some point and want to pretend Tomino's Devil Gundam isn't the same as Imagawa's and was defeated by Turn A or Unicorn instead of Domon? Knock yourself out with your own fricking headcanon. I'll just accept it's referencing G Gundam like it's intended to thank you very much.
I'm not arguing with anyone that the thematic meaning of the Dark History is supposed to be more important than the autistic desire to try and put every show in a some imaginary perfect order and it was not done with that in mind most likely (G, Wing, and X could occur in any order with any amount of time in the 10000 years and it wouldn't matter), and it definitely wasn't done with any future au's in mind, and frankly I don't think any of subsequent au's take Turn A into account in their planning process either, which is why 00 obviously doesn't fit with it's usage of AD, and any attempt to jam it in is awkward. Likewise it's clear as more AU's are being made that 10,000 year time period is going to become crowded as frick eventually unless the idea is eventually abandoned.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Man, don't trust TE Spoilers guy shit. A lot of his claims were debunked as misunderstanding and made up horseshit.
Literally nothing from Turn A has been referenced. He focuses heavily on UC in all his draft material, as I've been told.
People keep citing "oh it was the staff" that snuck Wing into the show when that's just blatant ass-pulling. I asked around and Tomino specifically mentioned the After Colony era during his initial draft for Turn A.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Literally nothing from Turn A has been referenced. He focuses heavily on UC in all his draft material, as I've been told. >About the Sackträger (ties in to G-Reco stuff)
At the end of the Universal Century, it seemed that the countless space wars would finally come to an end, but the unending consumption had reduced Earth's resources close to zero. During this age, Earth was still the center of human civilization, and mankind sought to restore civilization on Earth. To do this they needed massive amounts of materials, which had to be mined from asteroids which were moved near to Earth. The Sackträger's predecessor, the fixed orbital elevator, was built in order to make moving the mined resources down to Earth easier. This megastructure was also supposed to be a symbol of peace, and Earth did in fact have peace for a few hundred years after the construction of the orbital elevator. It seems that there might have been several orbital elevators during this period, and that Manupiti was the Earthside base station for them, and there is (in Turn A's age) a fuctioning mass driver in Manupiti. After several hundred years, however, another space war erupted and the orbital elevators were destroyed. The remains of the orbital elevators falling from space caused massive damage to Earth, and it is said that some of these parts were later used to built the Sackträger in Manupiti's legends of the Branch of Ades. That the parts of the orbital elevators were used to build the Sackträger is not true, however, as they were products of entirely different ages; The elevator collapse was such a huge disaster that as ages passed it continued to be passed down and memories and records of history ended up getting compressed and combining the records of the two completely different megastructures. Also, the helmet worn by the king of Manupiti is based on astronaut helmets from long ago. Either way,the fixed orbital elevator was never rebuilt, and instead the rotation-type
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Sackträger was built instead. Sackträger is a name in a language of ancient Europe (currently Galia in Turn A), German, which means "bagworm", and was presumably named as such because the elevator climbing up and down looked like a massive bagworm from the ground. There are no records of why the name is in German.
10 months ago
Anonymous
But they still have the fixed orbital elevator in G-reco. How could it exist again after being destroyed if it was never rebuilt?
10 months ago
Anonymous
You got a source for your bullshit?
10 months ago
Anonymous
When you say Tomino’s Turn A novels do you mean the ones with the Dark History Turn A that can teleport colony lasers into wienerpits? Because those were written by, guess who, Fukui.
It's actually a book by Tomino called Turn A Gundam Complete Record Collection Volume 2: The Memory of Second Wind. It also is refferenced quite a bit in G Reco.
>Man, don't trust TE Spoilers guy shit. A lot of his claims were debunked as misunderstanding and made up horseshit.
TE was the one who translated the actual seting books
When you say Tomino’s Turn A novels do you mean the ones with the Dark History Turn A that can teleport colony lasers into wienerpits? Because those were written by, guess who, Fukui.
It's actually a book by Tomino called Turn A Gundam Complete Record Collection Volume 2: The Memory of Second Wind. It also is refferenced quite a bit in G Reco.
and interviews to debunk the misunderstanding and horseshit that was being posted on /m/ for years, sounds like you're one of the butthurt homosexuals who was posting horseshit.
Considering how he seems to think Newtypes = INFINITE HUMAN POTENTIAL when the shows beat you over the head with the ‘Newtypes = understanding’ angle I’m inclined to believe he just completely didn’t understand it
It's kinda both, but more like Tomino's hopes in a potential of future generations. Understanding is just the core part of that.
I wish I was this optimistic.
>Seriously, what did Fukui mean by this?
Just do drugs kids - Fukui probably. Seriously you have to be high as frick to come up with something like Turn A Gundam the way Tomino did.
Nothing. Lalah refers to life as a universal concept, something that existed for billions of years before humans and will exist in the future long after humans are gone. The only ones being idiots are in this thread. Fukui did nothing to change the status quo. It's purely an art piece.
>Turn A resets it all every 10,000 years with the magical power of space ghosts and muh Ideframe’
There's nothing in short that implies this. The Turn A only resets one civilization and Lalah specifically says that it's the Universal Century. It's heavily implied what we see is the same Black History we see in Turn A gundam. She refers to it as an endless spiral staircase, asking how many other worlds must have gone through the same thing. She's not saying that the Turn A existed since the start of the universe wiping out planets across galaxies, she's saying all life goes through a cycle like this and will continue to do so in the future even when humans are gone but that life will persist. The Turn A is just an example of it, not something that's going to fly throughout the universe wiping out civilizations everywhere.
>There's nothing in short that implies this. The Turn A only resets one civilization and Lalah specifically says that it's the Universal Century.
She specifically talks about how through the resets humanity actually gains something (to counter Amuro's pessimism upon seeing it) and that at some point they will break away from the cycle. The whole point of talking about "spirals" and cycles is that it's a repeating event.
>It's heavily implied what we see is the same Black History we see in Turn A gundam.
They specifically make the Turn-A look different from the one shown in the Black History video there. It's clearly not meant to be the same event.
>She specifically talks about how through the resets humanity actually gains something (to counter Amuro's pessimism upon seeing it) and that at some point
No she doesn't. There's no talk about gaining anything, it's part of a march towards a top, not a process of "gaining" something from resets. You either didn't understand the dialogue or never got to see it. This is what Lalah says.
>This is... Lalah, what exactly am I looking at? >From the start to the end of a civilization, it's a little more than 10,000 years at most. The things created by humans will vanish without a trace after 100,000 years or so. In a universe that has witnessed more than ten billion years, how many worlds had gone by before this one of ours? It's like a spiral staircase that continues infintely, going around this endless circle, we'll reach the top someday. It won't be futile. To reach the top, everything is essential. There must be scenery we haven't seen.
>they will break away from the cycle
She doesn't say this. The top is not implied to be an end or a break and it's generally not considered that in asian philosophy. See: realms of Buddhism
>The whole point of talking about "spirals" and cycles is that it's a repeating event.
For all life, before and after humanity.
>They specifically make the Turn-A look different from the one shown in the Black History video there. It's clearly not meant to be the same event.
Looks aren't a big deal. The MSG films and proceeding films replaced the G-Fighter with the corebooster yet the TV show is the one that's listed among the films like CCA and Unicorn in Sunrise charts. It's very clearly meant to be the same event and it roughly lines up with statements both in the short and the Turn A TV show, referring to the civilization of black history as the Universal Century, and one that started over 10,000 years ago.
>The whole point of talking about "spirals" and cycles is that it's a repeating event.
And just to emphasize, she never, never says that this event is repeating. She says that the cycles of a civilization is one that repeats. At no point did she say or even imply that it's about the Turn A or a reset of Earth's civilization. She specifically asks Amuro to consider how many worlds there were before theirs before stating that it's all part of an infinite cycle.
>She refers to it as an endless spiral staircase, asking how many other worlds must have gone through the same thing. She's not saying that the Turn A existed since the start of the universe wiping out planets across galaxies, she's saying all life goes through a cycle like this and will continue to do so in the future even when humans are gone but that life will persist.
What "other worlds"? The frick does that even mean if you ignore the context being presented with you through visuals?
Why even bring that line up? I feel like it pokes a hole in your whole interpretation.
>The frick does that even mean if you ignore the context being presented with you through visuals?
None of the visuals say anything about there being a repeat of the Turn A. Lalah specifically says that the civilization we're shown being wiped out, the only one we see being wiped out by the Turn A, is the Universal Century. What's actually said and shown is this:
>Look, this is not the end! >showing visions of AUs >>This is... Lalah, what exactly am I looking at? >From the start to the end of a civilization, it's a little more than 10,000 years at most. The things created by humans will vanish without a trace after 100,000 years or so. In a universe that has witnessed more than ten billion years, how many worlds had gone by before this one of ours? It's like a spiral staircase that continues infintely, going around this endless circle, we'll reach the top someday. It won't be futile. To reach the top, everything is essential. There must be scenery we haven't seen.
>The frick does that even mean if you ignore the context being presented with you through visuals?
You're ignoring direct statements from Lalah to create a completely alien meaning. She uses 世界, literally worlds, but is talking about them in the context of 10 billion years throughout the universe.
>Why even bring that line up? I feel like it pokes a hole in your whole interpretation.
On the contrary, that's the entire point Lalah is making. Life is universal. She's not talking about the Turn A, she's talking about the cycle of life, something that has existed up to 10 billion years. Saying that she's talking about the Turn A here is completely incomprehensible. She never even brings it up nor is she showing Amuro visions of the Turn A. He's physically watching the demise of the Universal Century. The things Lalah shows him are visions and none of them have to do with the Turn A.
>None of the visuals say anything about there being a repeat of the Turn A.
Except Turn A emerging from stone. Which means it's been hibernating in a mountain cycle like it was at the start of the TV series.
This means it can't be the first time it's used the Moonlight Butterfly. And it can't be the present of the Turn A TV series because it ends on earth, after engulfing the planet. Also implies it can't be the cycle directly after the TV series because it start on earth and ends up on earth.
>This means it can't be the first time it's used the Moonlight Butterfly
Which is fine, because using the moonlight butterfly doesn't mean the end of the world as the ending of the show demonstrates. It's not actually that powerful unless it's able to spend time in the atmosphere. The Turn X was also found in a mountain cycle on the moon despite the Turn A only being stated and shown to have destroyed the Earth's civilization, and obviously the moonrace still exists. Mountain cycles in and of themselves have nothing to do with wiping out the planet. You've created an imaginary version of the moonlight butterfly in your mind. It's used multiple times in the show and in the short term it could definitely surround itself in a mountain cycle but it only ended the Earth's civilization one time.
>And it can't be the present of the Turn A TV series because it ends on earth, after engulfing the planet
We already know that because Lalah says it's destroying the Universal Century.
>Also implies it can't be the cycle directly after the TV series because it start on earth and ends up on earth.
Again, we already know that because Lalah says it's destroying the Universal Century. The event of wiping out universal century is the same one from the TV show. And there's no hints that it's repeated.
So what imaginary situation did you create for this to work the way you want it to?
Turn A used a tiny Moonlight Butterfly and everyone left it alone long enough for a mountain cycle to form around it?
Your headcanon takes a lot more imagination than what is actually implied visually. Don't expect it to catch on.
>The Turn X was also found in a mountain cycle on the moon despite the Turn A only being stated and shown to have destroyed the Earth's civilization, and obviously the moonrace still exists.
You got this backwards. The moon was specifically protected because it was covered in mountain cycles. They say it in the show. The moonlight butterfly doesn't just destroy, it also can preserve. That's what the mountain cycles are.
10 months ago
Anonymous
There's no backwards or forwards here. Mountain cycles are a result of the moonlight butterfly being used. That's all it means. The other anon believes that mountain cycles only occur after the world has been wiped out, I'm saying they're just a result of the moonlight butterfly being used, which doesn't mean the world was wiped out.
10 months ago
Anonymous
The setting necessitates the Moonlight Butterfly hitting the moon ether way for the mountain cycles to be there.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Again, that has nothing to do with wiping out civilization, or wiping out anything for that matter. All it means is that the moonlight butterfly was used on the moon, possibly even with the exclusive purpose of protecting it. A mountain cycle does not mean that the earth (or moon) was wiped out. In fact, the moon mountain cycle is proof that mountain cycles are not evidence of a civilization being wiped out.
Even in the light of life the Turn A only flies around the Earth before powering down and sinking to the ground and then when it cuts away to space, seemingly in real physical time since it doesn't have the haziness of one of Lalah's visions, there's a space colony floating in orbit of the Earth.
10 months ago
Anonymous
I mean it implies it covered the entire moon. Whether or not it was from all the way down on earth isn't known.
10 months ago
Anonymous
I don't think that's the case. it only needed to cover the clustered cities and some of the surroundings to create mountain cycles to protect the moonrace.
>Whether or not it was from all the way down on earth isn't known
I think it's pretty clear it wasn't. It's only ever stated that the Turn A turned Earth's civilization to dust, and the Zacktrager and Mistletoe are just floating in Earth's and the moon's orbits respectively.
I'm curious who you think preceded UC and created the Turn A if you think earth's civilization was wiped out before? You're implying that light of life is throwing out all data, setting, and gunpla manual information about the Turn A being a knock off Turn X, which was believed to be made by humans who left for space sometime during UC.
Yes. That is what I am implying. It clearly doesn't line up with Turn A canon.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Yea, that's a lot more headcanon involved than the Turn A wrapped itself up to repair itself somewhere before going for the nuclear option. Mountain cycles are a latent result of the nanomachines spreading out but they're said to repair or maintain machinery.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>This short Tomino wasn't involved in, that contradicts the information we know about Turn A from what we know from the TV series does not line up with Turn A's continuity >"headcanon"
That's a problem no matter what. There's no magnetic storms and no fight with Turn X, meaning it can't be the time it used the MB to wipe out UC as depicted in the show. It's a rewrite ether way.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>There's no magnetic storms
Huh?
>no fight with Turn X
The show never shows the Black History Turn A fighting the Turn X. It shows up flying over an ocean into a city and then flies around the planet covering it in storms exactly like it does in the short. The fight is only stated to have happened at some point, not even when. For all we know it may have been decades or hundreds of years before Earth was wiped out. Armageddon was said to have lasted several hundreds of years and it's implied the Turn X and A were procured/built during it and the Turn A put an end to it, since it's referred to as humanity's final war.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Here's a side by side comparison of the flyby from both versions of the event. When you look at these buildings, do you think "Fukui meant for this to be two totally different events and he thinks the Turn A wipes out every civilization" or do you think "he probably meant for these to be the same events but in an updated artstyle"?
10 months ago
Anonymous
I don't think the buildings matter as much as things like the MB itself and Turn A emerging from a moon cycle. So this really isn't swaying me at all.
I'm not saying it is supporting the idea that all the AUs take place in one timeline (because I hate this idea), but it very specifically shows Turn A emerge from an encasement of stone, wake up and immediately go MLB before going to sleep. This leaves no room for it's fight with Turn X or the time it kicked up magnetic storms like it did in the Black History footage we see in Turn A. So it does seem to be a different iteration than the one from the TV series' history, even if you choose to interpret the new color scheme as a stylistic choice.
I'm curious who you think preceded UC and created the Turn A if you think earth's civilization was wiped out before? You're implying that light of life is throwing out all data, setting, and gunpla manual information about the Turn A being a knock off Turn X, which was believed to be made by humans who left for space sometime during UC.
The MB doesn't create the stone surrounding mountain cycles. That's naturally forming. So no matter what the short animation implies Turn A is waking up from a VERY long nap, regardless of it using the MB to a large extent or not. With JUST the information from Light of Life Chronicle UC, it implies Turn A is already ancient by the time It destroys UC. Which makes no sense and doesn't match any other interpretation of what happened.
You're trying too hard to make this fit when it doesn't.
>The MB doesn't create the stone surrounding mountain cycles. That's naturally forming
That's straight up false. Sid said that Mountain Cycles have a specific geological structure made up of limestone caverns surrounded by volcanic ash, and below that is a sand like layer and a brittle layer. This is a specific characteristic of a mountain cycle. We don't know the mechanism by which the nanomachines are able to change the geology but they're able to recreate the structure all over the planet in a way so precise that Sid is able to identify them accurately. Not to mention the caverns themselves are heavily implied to be artificial.
Also, the Turn A in Light of Life isn't even caked up in the rocky layer all the old suits in the TV show were. It was just sitting somewhere below ground for a little while.
I think it'd be neat to see a survivor of one of the Turn A's solar system purges work to restore humanity and civilization himself to counter when the Turn A would appear again. The Turn A's nanomachines are said to be able to repair even the pilot, akin to the DG Cells they originate from, so perhaps such a survivor could attain immortality by completely 'repairing' his entire body using such nanomachines and becoming part of the very mobile suit he pilots.
I really don’t understand why Sunrise keeps hiring a man who very clearly doesn’t understand shit about Gundam. I know Unicorn is a money printing machine for them but it’s crazy how a man that has worked with Tomino for years and has a massive range of knowledge regarding UC doesn’t seem to understand very basic concepts laid out in it
in a similar vein, anybody know why yatate basically was given free rein to do whatever he wants with late uc? i just finished crossbone and while i think it started a bit slow i thought it really really comes together in the second half, and he really strikes me as a guy who understood gundam with all his jupter/newtype stuff he does in crossbone
just wondering where he got his "in" with sunrise and if crossbone did good enough for them to let him do whatever, or if they just dont give a frick
Unicorn is the literal god machine and stomps the Turn A so much that they have to retroactively put more gimmicks in Turn A so it can still have the title of the strongest and "end all be all" Gundam
basically handwaves warps reality to its liking and rewinds time. Unicorn is the highest of the highest of all power level fights. Turn A cannot compete.
basically this recon is just to keep sucking Tomino's wiener and please papa Tomino and keep Turn A as the strongest and the end of all Gundams.
hathaway is doing that single handedly, while ignoring literally everything that happened in unicorn
10 months ago
Anonymous
If you actually read the fricking story or watched the movie you'd realize that unicorn doesn't need to be referenced. We wouldn't have HF movies without Unicorn fricktard.
>And without him, we wouldn't be moving forward into the second half of the universal century.
Crossbone has existed since before the PS2.
Not official so doesn't matter.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>you'd realize that unicorn doesn't need to be referenced
so unicorn is completely fricking unimportant?
10 months ago
Anonymous
No, but people expect every fricking work to hing on that entry when they don't have to.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Forgive me for thinking that considering Unicorn does backflips to insist that THE BOX WILL CHANGE THE FACE OF THE UNIVERSAL CENTURY AND REWRITE THE POWER BALANCE and then absolutely nothing comes of it and the god powered super machines that make it all happen get tucked away and the whole thing is forgotten about. I wouldn’t even be that bothered if Unicorn took place in like 0578 or some shit because at least it won’t clash with anything else now but since Fukui has a such a raging hard on for Neo Neo Neo Neo Neo Zeon 2: Electric Bawoogaloo and forcing Mineva into everything he writes, he couldn’t leave wel enough alone and had to retroactively sully CCA and Hathaway with his atrocious writing
10 months ago
Anonymous
The super powered machines are too busy playing time police to prevent other psychoframe machines exist, except f95 apparently has psychoframe now for reasons.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Sorry, F91 I mean.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Sorry, F91 I mean.
Always has. The F91 having psycoframe goes all the way back to movie tie in booklets
10 months ago
Anonymous
Bandai has flip flopped on that multiple times.
10 months ago
Anonymous
It's more like they went silent about it for a while, but it's back now as of the prequel manga.
10 months ago
Anonymous
everyone is scared of what Laplace box contains because what can happen if it was revealed.
it is akin to something like when the US founding constitution being written, a horrible accident happened, and when it was revealed there is a amendment that says that black people are just 3/5ths of a person and they have to be treated like slaves.
then we fast forward to now, a few people uncovered the truth that the original draft of the constitution has an amendment that black people are to be treated the same as white and requires them to have 1/2 of the positions in the government.
what do you think will happen? will it be the same day as usual? will there be chimpouts like the BLM protests? will there be civil war?
that was the dilemma the Laplace box presented. would everyone care? would it lead to another "Zeon-like uprising from spacenoids being vindicated all this time?
well, in UC's case, the general people never cared enough or they were sick of war that the box never amounted to anything anyway.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>well, in UC's case, the general people never cared enough or they were sick of war that the box never amounted to anything anyway.
There's also how it's unclear if it refers to spacenoids or newtypes (lets say black people or africans) and regardless, all the spacenoids live in space colonies meaning full segregation so even if there were riots it's be black people rioting in wakanda.
It's able to revert matter to previous states, but it seems very localized. There's /m/ stuff that can rewind time as a whole or even rewrite reality itself. Even blue frame Phenex couldn't seem to maintain light speed in normal combat. I'd hardly call them "highest of the highest of all power level fights." even limited to just /m/.
You specially said >of all power level fights.
Implying you were not only not limiting this to Gundam but not limiting this to mecha at all.
Most powerlevel debate shit isn't even /m/ anyways.
It turned into an actual God and rewound time or some shit, I’m pretty sure Fukui said in an interview too that it can also blow up the universe if it wanted and do all other kinds of ridiculous DBZ tier bullshit
It’s after that when it goes fully beyond the time and turns into a giant crystal or whatever. The manual for the Crystal Version HG says something completely fricking moronic like the psychoframe in it is so powerful it can wipe out the universe
Which doesn't make sense, if you read the specifications of the unicorn they blow the shit up of the g-self. Would be like comparing a Zaku II with V-2
The G-Self's specs are unknown moron. But considering we know
Yes but G-Reco came out after Unicorn, meaning it has the new suit shilling advantage. Also, the Phenex is being piloted by Luin, who is mediocre at best.
>Talk big about Unicorn power level shit >Shrink back to "that doesn't make sense!" When it's put into action and doesn't meet fan expectation.
Classic.
He's injecting Super Robot back into Gundam, what a mad lad. Can't wait for Unicorn 2 where they use the psychoframe to hop into another dimension and fight Getter Emperor.
Wait a minute, whay the hell is going on here? What Fukui have to do with Turn A Gundam? There's a new animation involving it? How I never heard of any of this?
honestly the sakuga is the worst thing about unicorn, in the sense that im completely fricking jealous of how gorgeous it is given the contents of its story are so bad. it feels like if zeta still looked like 79 and then zz looked like zeta
because no matter how much you seethe, Unicorn is part of the canon UC history
in fact, makes me wonder what makes morons go reeeeeeee against Unicorn. other Tomino works is also full of moronation, so what makes his work so special? The only remotely well written UC Gundam is 0080.
a high school dropout who doesnt have a license in engineering somehow designed a MS better than the licensed engineers at Anaheim
a ship captain picking stray children to put on the battleship as morale upper
the whole 2/3rds of ZZ
the poofter Loran crossdressing subplot that really goes nowhere, we all know its just Tomino's barely disguised fetish
Kamille's moronic sense of honor in battle wont let him shoot enemies during space reentry but willing to push a crippled guy off a cliff.
there are many more, but I have to rewatch all of them again to list them out.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>a high school dropout who doesnt have a license in engineering somehow designed a MS better than the licensed engineers at Anaheim
no clue what you're even trying to refer to here, but this is absolutely a nitpick
>a ship captain picking stray children to put on the battleship as morale upper
if this is about 79 the kids escaped from the colony, yeah they should have been dropped off but they werent there for "morale"
>the whole 2/3rds of ZZ
this is the only part of zz that is even remotely good (it's still shit)
>the poofter Loran crossdressing subplot that really goes nowhere, we all know its just Tomino's barely disguised fetish
its thematic you dip, read more literature
>Kamille's moronic sense of honor in battle wont let him shoot enemies during space reentry but willing to push a crippled guy off a cliff.
this is moronic, he learns what war is very fast and drops this shtick
10 months ago
Anonymous
Zeta Gundam being designed is not a nitpick. its Tominos moronic way to show that Kamille is somehow a good newtype because he can design robots, but it blows a hole in world building. if a highschool dropout can design a better machine compared to other real engineers because he's a newtype, why hire engineers, just let newtypes design the robots.
Bright has a moronic idea to pick up Shinta and Qum. he didnt pick them up from a battlefield. he picked them up for the sole reason of being the ship mascot. that is fricking moronic. picking up orphans to put in a ship where they go to battlefield to battlefield is simply moronic. But this is Tomino trying to recapture the 3 brats from original Gundam
No. Loran crossdressing subplot goes nowhere. he declares himself to the world he is moonrace, so there is fricking 0 point in crossdressing to hide the pilot's identity. its just there to serve Tomino's moronic ideas for episode fillers.
Kamille is moronic all the way through
10 months ago
Anonymous
>but it blows a hole in world building
Amuro designed the Haro, Kamille's parents were both engineers so it's not a reach to think he could have picked up after them, especially since they worked for Anaheim, if anything, it's consistent with worldbuilding >Bright has a moronic idea to pick up Shinta and Qum
The kids were Blex's, Char kept them aboard as a way of repaying him, they also help in tasks like cooking and delivering food, they're not just mascots.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Haro is like a hobby robot. an MS is a highly complex machine that is 18 meters tall full of electronics.
Kamille is not an engineer. he is a highschool dropout. That is like a highschool who wants to be an architect designing skycrapers better than licensed architect.
would you even trust to build a skycraper designed by an unlicensed architect?
10 months ago
Anonymous
>would you even trust to build a skycraper designed by an unlicensed architect?
Yes, because architecture is primarily the aesthetics while the engineering is an entirely separate accreditation?
10 months ago
Anonymous
well, you are going to kill people. even if the engineering is good, if the design is bad from the getgo, its gonna fail. and architects are also responsible for structural design, materials and structure integrity.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Any design is going to have to be drafted by a certified engineer and approved by a county board. Please learn how the real world works.
10 months ago
Anonymous
AE still had to prototype the Zeta Gundam. That's what the flying armor is, and is stated as such on screen. The sunrise profile for the Hyaku Shiki also says it's the middle child of the Zeta development project.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Kamille didn't make it alone though
and Kamille still designed the thing, as he passed the data of Zeta Gundam design to Astonaige
10 months ago
Anonymous
Just the initial design or concept. He needed an explanation about the flying armor and a manual for the Zeta Gundam when he received them. Obviously there was a lot of work done by other people between his initial design and him getting the MS from Anaheim
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Bright has a moronic idea to pick up Shinta and Qum.
watch the show with your eyes open next time
10 months ago
Anonymous
Kamille didn't make it alone though
10 months ago
Anonymous
>all nitpicks
Well you tried at least
10 months ago
Anonymous
>a high school dropout who doesnt have a license in engineering somehow designed a MS better than the licensed engineers at Anaheim
It’s said in the very episode that Kamille won mobile suit development competitions and miniature gliders. His parents are also directly working with the Titans and designing mobile suits so by familial association he’d be aware of the mechanisations of them. >a ship captain picking stray children to put on the battleship as morale upper
That was Char who brought them on board and the idea is that it provides the atmosphere of a family. The kids and Fraw in 0079 were popular with female viewers for the mother-child aspects and this is just a repeat of that >the whole 2/3rds of ZZ
Filtered. >the poofter Loran crossdressing subplot that really goes nowhere, we all know its just Tomino's barely disguised fetish
It’s there to build up both Loran and Guin’s characters. Loran as someone who has to do something that he finds stupid and embarrassing but knows is for the good of those around him and Guin as a total weirdo who has a crush on Loran and uses people around him for his own gain. >Kamille's moronic sense of honor in battle wont let him shoot enemies during space reentry but willing to push a crippled guy off a cliff.
This gets dropped immediately after he realises that war isn’t so cut and dry and he can’t afford to spare people one moment but kill them the next
Probably because a lot of places like Reddit recommend new Gundam fans to start with Unicorn as their entry to UC, so Unicorn is basically the honeymoon show for most younger UC fans
>2030 >Unicorn 2 finally comes out >Banagher travels through time and stops the OYW through understanding >talks down Scirocco, Haman and Char through understanding >Unicorn MK 2 stops 50 colony lasers fired simultaneously by the federation with help from the Sleeves off-shoot group, the Cuffs and Queen Mineva >so successful it becomes the best performing entry in the franchise’s history >Fukui is given total control over the UC after Tomino’s death >retcons Pyschoframes into 0079, Zeta and ZZ
How do you react?
Ever notice that whenever someone criticises the Unicorn time travel bullshit, someone nearly always chimes in with ‘WELL WHAT ABOUT AXIS SHOCK OR THE BIOSENSOR????’. It’s the only fall back they have
Unicorn doesn't actually physically travel through time. It's Newtype ascend to a higher plane of existence "Amuro, I can see time!" shit, not it can physically pop into 0079 and change history or create an alternate timeline stuff.
I'm very sure Fukui said somewhere that he intended for Unicorn to travel time with Neo Zeong, in the literal sense of it. If not outright confirmed it, but outside of that Crystal Unicorn can rewind time in very specific instances like when he disassembled those mobile suits and NT confirms it.
[...]
Unicorn and Phenex shits out a psychofield that reverses time.
Unicorn shat out a psychofield causing the Jegans' parts to rewind back to a state that it was before built.
Phenex shits out a psychofield that causes parts of Narrative A-packs to rewind back in time to a state before it was built, causing it to fall apart.
>A glorified disassembly ability with a dash of reversing nuclear decay and wear is the same thing as time travel.
I mean it's still supernatural bullshit, but I'd hardly classify it as any form of true time travel. The main presumed bit of quantum manipulation evident would be radioactive material in the reactors showing no sign of decay with a lack of wear on the parts from running. Saying it's a very specific form of rewinding time still doesn't convey how limited it is. It's more like undoing the effect of "time" on those objects .
Call me when Banagher fricks up the timeline by trying to save Mineva's dad.
According to an interview and despite what one shitposter who doesn't understand Japanese kept whining about it in a previous thread, Fukui says that the entire plot of NT happened because when Rita became a true newtype she sent her mind back in time to herself as a child to set things in motion for the entire movie to happen.
It's not full time travel since it's only sending her consciousness back but it's still changing things in the past to affect the future.
>>A glorified disassembly ability with a dash of reversing nuclear decay and wear is the same thing as time travel.
I thought it was pretty distinctly different too, but Narrative literally has characters acting like they discovered time travel and want more.
I'm very sure Fukui said somewhere that he intended for Unicorn to travel time with Neo Zeong, in the literal sense of it. If not outright confirmed it, but outside of that Crystal Unicorn can rewind time in very specific instances like when he disassembled those mobile suits and NT confirms it.
Unicorn doesn't actually physically travel through time. It's Newtype ascend to a higher plane of existence "Amuro, I can see time!" shit, not it can physically pop into 0079 and change history or create an alternate timeline stuff.
Unicorn and Phenex shits out a psychofield that reverses time.
Unicorn shat out a psychofield causing the Jegans' parts to rewind back to a state that it was before built.
Phenex shits out a psychofield that causes parts of Narrative A-packs to rewind back in time to a state before it was built, causing it to fall apart.
>But then Tomino went and said that Turn A doing that happened BEFORE G Reco and also made that impossible timeline >Fukui thinks that everything Tomino says should be taken as absolute
It's settled then.
It's funny because after Tomino said that Sunrise tried to run it back super hard to the point that Tomino had to make a statement that in the end it's Sunrise and not him who decides what the timeline looks like.
And then they ran to Fukui to fix it for them and instead he went "nah Tomino said it so it's canon" and came up with this nonsense.
>thinks everything Tomino says should be taken as divine fact >still completely misunderstands numerous aspects of the UC and forces his own tripe into what Tomino originally set up
He actually runs everything he does by Tomino first, the problem is that it seems that Tomino is senile and just says whatever in response to all the stuff he comes up with. This was done in public at a talk show once where he asked Tomino if psychoframe was ideonite and Tomino clearly had no idea what he was talking about and just shrugged going "sure, whatever you say" and thanks to that Fukui seems to be working on the premise that Gundam is an actual literal sequel to Ideon and all this nonsense bullshit
I'm willing to bet that this is what Fukui is building up to:
-Turn A is a vessel of ide that resets mankind on a regular basis because ide hates war
-Psychoframe wasn't actually invented by humans, it's shards of ideon that they discovered that are older than known history
-Unicorn 2 is about how the Unicorn (and maybe Banshee and Phenex) are becoming vessels for ide and are going to reset civilization. Since UC does continue on after they are stopped but mankind gets scared of psychoframe tech and stops using it
And I'd go as far as to say this might happen
-The psychoframe going out of control results in Unicorn literally transforming into Turn A
>“Tomino-san, I’ve got a great idea for Unicorn 2! So in this one, Banagher goes like HYPER Newtype, y’know like in Dunbine, that show you made. Is that also canon to Ideon? Oh I already know it is! Anyway, Banagher goes Hyper Newtype and get this, he BECOMES Char. That’s right, Char is back! So now Charnagher has to use the PYSCHOFRAME to go beyond the time and help Mineva defeat the Federation who have been RAPING AND MURDERING everyone on Earth! What do you think?” >”hnuuu Aida-san’s thighs jmmmmm. *dribbles all over the floor*
>y’know like in Dunbine, that show you made. Is that also canon to Ideon?
oh you joke but I'm convinced that fukui's ultimate plan is to connect them all
They made a clip show special a few years back where Amuro and Lalah watch Turn A Moonlight Butterfly everything from Newtype Heaven, Amuro gets depressed at thinking humanity wiped itself out, they recap every UC anime released up to that point, the AU's only get like a one minute collage while Lalah says something or other about time being a spiral, and Lalah shills Hathaway and Moon Gundam in moment that practically breaks the fourth wall, and finally reassures Amuro that Turn A didn't completely eradicate life like thought cheering him up.
>they recap every UC anime released up to that point
Nah, the only UC series directly mentioned in that part is CCA, when Lalah says the light of the Turn-A is the same one seen in Axis.
After the AUs though, they go on to show the then upcoming UC Stuff (Moon Gundam, Unicorn (I guess it might actually be Narrative?), Hathaway).
>Nah, the only UC series directly mentioned in that part is CCA
No, they do look at clips from everything, though they gloss over most of details of the individual series in favor of broadstrokes. 0079, CCA and Unicorn get the most focus, with just enough 0083, Zeta, ZZ (they explain how Zeon remants continuing to fight(showing the Delaz fleets actions) lead to formation of the Titans, which in turn lead to the Gryps conflict(with Amuro briefly reminiscing on Kamille), which lead to the first Neo Zeon War (with them deciding to focus on the creation of Ple series because that's more relevant to Unicorn than anything Judau did)) to cover the gaps. Clips from 0080 and 08th MS team are essentially cameos during the OWY recap. Clips from Narrative are used to show the colony drop, and further emphasize the Earth Federation's corruption with the Titans, Newtype experimentation, and the stuff surrounding Unicorn.
F91 and Victory are covered in tangent where they talked about how despite Zeonism in name died out, the enmity many spacenoids felt towards the Earth federation did not, resulting in the rise Cosmo Aristocracy.
The majority recap isn't so much about the characters(except Amuro, and Char a little), but about how the earth federation is horrible and corrupt, which in turn leads to spacenoids overreacting by turning to dictators promising them violent revenge on their oppressors.
There are also a few diversions where they talk about how awesome the Gundams and their pilots were in a very generalized fashion.
It's only 45 minutes. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone looking for a crash course on Gundam or UC, but if you want see how Amuro and Lalah are spending eternity and see Amuro despair on on bleak Universal Century is, it's not going to eat up too much of your time.
>Nah, the only UC series directly mentioned in that part is CCA
No, they do look at clips from everything, though they gloss over most of details of the individual series in favor of broadstrokes. 0079, CCA and Unicorn get the most focus, with just enough 0083, Zeta, ZZ (they explain how Zeon remants continuing to fight(showing the Delaz fleets actions) lead to formation of the Titans, which in turn lead to the Gryps conflict(with Amuro briefly reminiscing on Kamille), which lead to the first Neo Zeon War (with them deciding to focus on the creation of Ple series because that's more relevant to Unicorn than anything Judau did)) to cover the gaps. Clips from 0080 and 08th MS team are essentially cameos during the OWY recap. Clips from Narrative are used to show the colony drop, and further emphasize the Earth Federation's corruption with the Titans, Newtype experimentation, and the stuff surrounding Unicorn.
F91 and Victory are covered in tangent where they talked about how despite Zeonism in name died out, the enmity many spacenoids felt towards the Earth federation did not, resulting in the rise Cosmo Aristocracy.
The majority recap isn't so much about the characters(except Amuro, and Char a little), but about how the earth federation is horrible and corrupt, which in turn leads to spacenoids overreacting by turning to dictators promising them violent revenge on their oppressors.
There are also a few diversions where they talk about how awesome the Gundams and their pilots were in a very generalized fashion.
It's only 45 minutes. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone looking for a crash course on Gundam or UC, but if you want see how Amuro and Lalah are spending eternity and see Amuro despair on on bleak Universal Century is, it's not going to eat up too much of your time.
>The universal century version of heaven is seeing people kill each other for an eternity learning your sacrifice was in vain
Sounds more like hell.
I'll never understand timeline homosexualry. At least with a series that has so many creators all over it like UC Gundam. Even with the whole Turn-A G-Reco timeline shit, I cannot understand why people seethe so much about it. It serves little to no purpose where those shows take place in relation to another. Feels like people would rather talk about that than the actual events and themes of their respective plotlines.
So, I have been reading more supplemental materials regarding the moronation of Kamille designing Zeta Gundam, and it turns out that he wasn't even responsible for it.
TL;DR: during UC 86, AEUG ordered a MS capable of reentry and transforming and still be an MS size suit, which can help them for the assault in Jaburo.
Dr. Pilsudski, Dr. Gluck and Dr. Lyell were responsible for the TMS Gundam Project. They made 2 prototypes, the Methuss (which fails AEUG's demands because its a space-only and can't reentry) and Hyaku-Shiki (which failed because the Delta Gundam's torso is crushed on its own weight when transforming)
during the assault on Jaburo, AEUG was supplied with the Flying Armor since the Zeta Gundam was delayed. because of it, AEUG is now questioning if the Zeta Gundam is needed. desperate, the AEUG chairman Carbine turned to Hervic Aeroplanes to help them with the Zeta Gundam.
So in the end, Kamille's Zeta Gundam was just a useless scribble he gave to Astonaige who most likely threw in the trash and the real people responsible for the Zeta Gundam, are forgotten. Kamille has been the attributed designer for the Zeta Gundam for propaganda purposes.
welp, at least no I am relieved regarding the design of Zeta Gundam because I cannot accept that a high school droupout can design a better MS than licensed and engineering doctorates.
now how Emma knows about the Bio-Sensor in the Zeta Gundam and how she know it is powered by the dead souls and tells it to Kamille is another stupid moment in Zeta Gundam
>So, I have been reading more supplemental materials regarding the moronation of Kamille designing Zeta Gundam, and it turns out that he wasn't even responsible for it.
Supplemental material is virtually all 3rd party and technically isn't "canon". Sunrise doesn't give a shit about it and never will. They have their own website with profiles that completely contradict most of the data and setting books published by companies like kadokawa
Frick if I know
CENTURY COLOR
It means he completely misunderstood what the Dark History is supposed to be, just like how he misunderstands basically everything about Gundam, all the while forcing his psychoframe fetish into everything he can get his hands on, including stuff that isn’t his own idea
More like you don't understand it.
Go on then, explain it.
No, he's correct. The Black History ie clearly shown in Turn A to be the result of man's unchanging nature that ultimately culminates in (repeated) destruction. It is not meant to be a "final judgement" by outside observers. To make it into Space Ghosts acting as the Ide cheapens all of it, especially Turn A's message of man learning to overcome himself and history's cycles.
>The Black History ie clearly shown in Turn A to be the result of man's unchanging nature that ultimately culminates in (repeated) destruction
Honestly even in the original the Turn A Gundam anime that shit didn't make any sense. If we're strictly speaking about the UC timeline then yes, but adding other timelines into it makes the entire unnecessarily complicated for the sake of it.
Tomino’s intent with the Dark History was that it was a framework based on the concepts of constant, un-ending fighting and how history can be manipulated. The reason why all the AUs are shown alongside UC in the the Dark History is just another example of that. During production, some of the staff explicitly sought out historians to get an understanding on how history can differ from place to place. The main example they used is how ancient Japan’s independence from China is often taught differently of how it actually happened from country to country, or more bluntly, how certain nations can say something they did bad never happened and it was someone else’s fault. That’s where the AUs come in. How everything merged into the Correct Century is anyone’s guess and it was intentionally left vague because it didn’t particularly matter, it was all about the concept of never ending fighting and the various other Gundam shows and the wars we see in them fit that narrative. It all leads to destruction inevitably and the Turn A unleashing the Moonlight Butterfly was just one example of that. It’s why the timelines Sunrise released around the time Seed came out just showed all the AUs and the UC join together into the CC. In a way it’s not even concretely saying that X or Wing became CC, but more so that history can differ greatly and those universes could’ve been the ‘main’ one all along instead of UC for example. It’s all symbolic but Fukui seems to have taken that as ‘Everything is on one set timeline and the Turn A resets it all every 10,000 years with the magical power of space ghosts and muh Ideframe’
While I agree about the symbolic meaning being the most important aspect of the Dark History, I also think it was intended to be literal. Tomino's novel's timeline explicitly referrences the Devil Gundam anf DG cells. Corin Nander's flashbacks likewise are clrearly meant to correspond with Quatre blowing blowing up that colony with the Wing Zero. I also think it was an idea that worked better at the time when Turn A was first released than does now.
When Turn A was released, there were only the 90's au trilogy of G Gundam(60 years of backstory), Wing(200 years), and X(15 years). Saying those three shows occurred in a 10,000 year timespan between Victory Gundam and Turn A didn't stretch credibility, as together they only take up less than 300 years. And Turn A ending there were 3 years before Seed made, so idea had time really set in.
Now you've got the problems with having to accommodate CE, AG, PD, AS, plus possibly Regild depending on whether it's after or before Turn A, plus the mess explaining 00, either having to say it occurred before UC(killing a sacred cow), or saying that after the end of the Universal Century Calendar everyone reverted to the old AD calendar(which nominally puts a time limit on how long after it can come after UC). You're only other option is saying frick it and just insisting it has to be it's own completely separate universe.
In short, it was a nice idea that worked at the time, but probably should have not been applied to the post Turn A works.
When you say Tomino’s Turn A novels do you mean the ones with the Dark History Turn A that can teleport colony lasers into wienerpits? Because those were written by, guess who, Fukui. The Wing Zero cameo was also added entirely by the staff. They included it in as a little Easter egg and had to persuade Tomino to keep it in and he eventually relented because he thought it fit the concept anyway. So Corin was never even intended to be from AC, it just sorta turned out that way because of a little reference that some animators snuck in that Tomino relented on.
In regards to it being literal, I’ve got no idea. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t. I do know that it was all intentionally kept vague on purpose and the main takeaway the viewer was supposed to focus on was the cycle of war, though given the community that might’ve been a bit of a crazy ask considering how big of a bombshell it is
>When you say Tomino’s Turn A novels do you mean the ones with the Dark History Turn A that can teleport colony lasers into wienerpits? Because those were written by, guess who, Fukui
This has been debunked both by users on the gundam wikia (imagine that) and redditors. The Turn A is hinted to teleport once in the novel and then at the end it teleports from the Keilas Guile command center on the moon to the Earth to block the giant laser.
Moreover, while it does have a psycommu system of some sort and has a Unicorn colony laser moment, it's ultimately destroyed after stopping 2 shots. It's stated that it could reform around the intact wienerlander after hundreds or thousands of years though. Its nanomachines also destroyed its civilization by disrupting the nanomachines that were pervasive throughout human society, ranging from building materials, to agriculture, machinery, and more, acting almost like a master nanomachine that can reprogram them.
>This has been debunked both by users on the gundam wikia (imagine that) and redditors. The Turn A is hinted to teleport once in the novel
It teleports in the damn show. Loran does it on accident and Gym thinks it became invisible but the supplementary materials from the time confirm it teleported.
You're spreading misunderstandings and horseshit made up by redditors and wikia.
When you say Tomino’s Turn A novels do you mean the ones with the Dark History Turn A that can teleport colony lasers into wienerpits? Because those were written by, guess who, Fukui.
It's actually a book by Tomino called Turn A Gundam Complete Record Collection Volume 2: The Memory of Second Wind. It also is refferenced quite a bit in G Reco.
https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/11694837
https://00tn2.blogspot.com/2014/11/turn-gundam-complete-record-collection-2.html
>It also is refferenced quite a bit in G Reco.
G Reco is more blatantly based on Ring of Gundam, down to the story beats. Although everything got better in G-Reco's world. Instead of being a machinized world made up nanomachines it's all natural on Earth, and the Rose of Hermes's plan is to outright move the planet to another galaxy once the Venus Globes arrays are completed, rather than the Ring colony's goal of moving part of humanity to another star sytem to rebuild humanity somewhere better.
Moreover, the Beauty Memory, a relic from the destroyed UC, in Ring of Memory actually talks about the infinite cycle of life and the universe, and how life is burdened with the task of not destroying itself. This is more inline with Turn A's themes, something that Fukui is obviously referencing. G-Reco is about moving on from a burdensome past, somewhat naively and rashly.
You seem to have missed my point.
All right, but that has nothing to do with the fact DG Cells are part of Turn A's history by Tomino's own pen. Deal with it. Don't like imagining G Gundam happened at some point and want to pretend Tomino's Devil Gundam isn't the same as Imagawa's and was defeated by Turn A or Unicorn instead of Domon? Knock yourself out with your own fricking headcanon. I'll just accept it's referencing G Gundam like it's intended to thank you very much.
I'm not arguing with anyone that the thematic meaning of the Dark History is supposed to be more important than the autistic desire to try and put every show in a some imaginary perfect order and it was not done with that in mind most likely (G, Wing, and X could occur in any order with any amount of time in the 10000 years and it wouldn't matter), and it definitely wasn't done with any future au's in mind, and frankly I don't think any of subsequent au's take Turn A into account in their planning process either, which is why 00 obviously doesn't fit with it's usage of AD, and any attempt to jam it in is awkward. Likewise it's clear as more AU's are being made that 10,000 year time period is going to become crowded as frick eventually unless the idea is eventually abandoned.
Man, don't trust TE Spoilers guy shit. A lot of his claims were debunked as misunderstanding and made up horseshit.
Literally nothing from Turn A has been referenced. He focuses heavily on UC in all his draft material, as I've been told.
People keep citing "oh it was the staff" that snuck Wing into the show when that's just blatant ass-pulling. I asked around and Tomino specifically mentioned the After Colony era during his initial draft for Turn A.
>Literally nothing from Turn A has been referenced. He focuses heavily on UC in all his draft material, as I've been told.
>About the Sackträger (ties in to G-Reco stuff)
At the end of the Universal Century, it seemed that the countless space wars would finally come to an end, but the unending consumption had reduced Earth's resources close to zero. During this age, Earth was still the center of human civilization, and mankind sought to restore civilization on Earth. To do this they needed massive amounts of materials, which had to be mined from asteroids which were moved near to Earth. The Sackträger's predecessor, the fixed orbital elevator, was built in order to make moving the mined resources down to Earth easier. This megastructure was also supposed to be a symbol of peace, and Earth did in fact have peace for a few hundred years after the construction of the orbital elevator. It seems that there might have been several orbital elevators during this period, and that Manupiti was the Earthside base station for them, and there is (in Turn A's age) a fuctioning mass driver in Manupiti. After several hundred years, however, another space war erupted and the orbital elevators were destroyed. The remains of the orbital elevators falling from space caused massive damage to Earth, and it is said that some of these parts were later used to built the Sackträger in Manupiti's legends of the Branch of Ades. That the parts of the orbital elevators were used to build the Sackträger is not true, however, as they were products of entirely different ages; The elevator collapse was such a huge disaster that as ages passed it continued to be passed down and memories and records of history ended up getting compressed and combining the records of the two completely different megastructures. Also, the helmet worn by the king of Manupiti is based on astronaut helmets from long ago. Either way,the fixed orbital elevator was never rebuilt, and instead the rotation-type
>Sackträger was built instead. Sackträger is a name in a language of ancient Europe (currently Galia in Turn A), German, which means "bagworm", and was presumably named as such because the elevator climbing up and down looked like a massive bagworm from the ground. There are no records of why the name is in German.
But they still have the fixed orbital elevator in G-reco. How could it exist again after being destroyed if it was never rebuilt?
You got a source for your bullshit?
>https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/11694837
>https://00tn2.blogspot.com/2014/11/turn-gundam-complete-record-collection-2.html
>Man, don't trust TE Spoilers guy shit. A lot of his claims were debunked as misunderstanding and made up horseshit.
TE was the one who translated the actual seting books
and interviews to debunk the misunderstanding and horseshit that was being posted on /m/ for years, sounds like you're one of the butthurt homosexuals who was posting horseshit.
Did he misunderstand it, or deliberately rewrite it?
Considering how he seems to think Newtypes = INFINITE HUMAN POTENTIAL when the shows beat you over the head with the ‘Newtypes = understanding’ angle I’m inclined to believe he just completely didn’t understand it
It's kinda both, but more like Tomino's hopes in a potential of future generations. Understanding is just the core part of that.
I wish I was this optimistic.
The Dark History in the show is quite literal as just the history. Nothing about universes folding in on each other.
>Seriously, what did Fukui mean by this?
Just do drugs kids - Fukui probably. Seriously you have to be high as frick to come up with something like Turn A Gundam the way Tomino did.
why did he reset the AD timeline? Shit is already perfectly peaceful, what did the ELS do to you?
Nothing. Lalah refers to life as a universal concept, something that existed for billions of years before humans and will exist in the future long after humans are gone. The only ones being idiots are in this thread. Fukui did nothing to change the status quo. It's purely an art piece.
>Turn A resets it all every 10,000 years with the magical power of space ghosts and muh Ideframe’
There's nothing in short that implies this. The Turn A only resets one civilization and Lalah specifically says that it's the Universal Century. It's heavily implied what we see is the same Black History we see in Turn A gundam. She refers to it as an endless spiral staircase, asking how many other worlds must have gone through the same thing. She's not saying that the Turn A existed since the start of the universe wiping out planets across galaxies, she's saying all life goes through a cycle like this and will continue to do so in the future even when humans are gone but that life will persist. The Turn A is just an example of it, not something that's going to fly throughout the universe wiping out civilizations everywhere.
>There's nothing in short that implies this. The Turn A only resets one civilization and Lalah specifically says that it's the Universal Century.
She specifically talks about how through the resets humanity actually gains something (to counter Amuro's pessimism upon seeing it) and that at some point they will break away from the cycle. The whole point of talking about "spirals" and cycles is that it's a repeating event.
>It's heavily implied what we see is the same Black History we see in Turn A gundam.
They specifically make the Turn-A look different from the one shown in the Black History video there. It's clearly not meant to be the same event.
>She specifically talks about how through the resets humanity actually gains something (to counter Amuro's pessimism upon seeing it) and that at some point
No she doesn't. There's no talk about gaining anything, it's part of a march towards a top, not a process of "gaining" something from resets. You either didn't understand the dialogue or never got to see it. This is what Lalah says.
>This is... Lalah, what exactly am I looking at?
>From the start to the end of a civilization, it's a little more than 10,000 years at most. The things created by humans will vanish without a trace after 100,000 years or so. In a universe that has witnessed more than ten billion years, how many worlds had gone by before this one of ours? It's like a spiral staircase that continues infintely, going around this endless circle, we'll reach the top someday. It won't be futile. To reach the top, everything is essential. There must be scenery we haven't seen.
>they will break away from the cycle
She doesn't say this. The top is not implied to be an end or a break and it's generally not considered that in asian philosophy. See: realms of Buddhism
>The whole point of talking about "spirals" and cycles is that it's a repeating event.
For all life, before and after humanity.
>They specifically make the Turn-A look different from the one shown in the Black History video there. It's clearly not meant to be the same event.
Looks aren't a big deal. The MSG films and proceeding films replaced the G-Fighter with the corebooster yet the TV show is the one that's listed among the films like CCA and Unicorn in Sunrise charts. It's very clearly meant to be the same event and it roughly lines up with statements both in the short and the Turn A TV show, referring to the civilization of black history as the Universal Century, and one that started over 10,000 years ago.
>The whole point of talking about "spirals" and cycles is that it's a repeating event.
And just to emphasize, she never, never says that this event is repeating. She says that the cycles of a civilization is one that repeats. At no point did she say or even imply that it's about the Turn A or a reset of Earth's civilization. She specifically asks Amuro to consider how many worlds there were before theirs before stating that it's all part of an infinite cycle.
>She refers to it as an endless spiral staircase, asking how many other worlds must have gone through the same thing. She's not saying that the Turn A existed since the start of the universe wiping out planets across galaxies, she's saying all life goes through a cycle like this and will continue to do so in the future even when humans are gone but that life will persist.
What "other worlds"? The frick does that even mean if you ignore the context being presented with you through visuals?
Why even bring that line up? I feel like it pokes a hole in your whole interpretation.
>The frick does that even mean if you ignore the context being presented with you through visuals?
None of the visuals say anything about there being a repeat of the Turn A. Lalah specifically says that the civilization we're shown being wiped out, the only one we see being wiped out by the Turn A, is the Universal Century. What's actually said and shown is this:
>Look, this is not the end!
>showing visions of AUs
>>This is... Lalah, what exactly am I looking at?
>From the start to the end of a civilization, it's a little more than 10,000 years at most. The things created by humans will vanish without a trace after 100,000 years or so. In a universe that has witnessed more than ten billion years, how many worlds had gone by before this one of ours? It's like a spiral staircase that continues infintely, going around this endless circle, we'll reach the top someday. It won't be futile. To reach the top, everything is essential. There must be scenery we haven't seen.
>The frick does that even mean if you ignore the context being presented with you through visuals?
You're ignoring direct statements from Lalah to create a completely alien meaning. She uses 世界, literally worlds, but is talking about them in the context of 10 billion years throughout the universe.
>Why even bring that line up? I feel like it pokes a hole in your whole interpretation.
On the contrary, that's the entire point Lalah is making. Life is universal. She's not talking about the Turn A, she's talking about the cycle of life, something that has existed up to 10 billion years. Saying that she's talking about the Turn A here is completely incomprehensible. She never even brings it up nor is she showing Amuro visions of the Turn A. He's physically watching the demise of the Universal Century. The things Lalah shows him are visions and none of them have to do with the Turn A.
>None of the visuals say anything about there being a repeat of the Turn A.
Except Turn A emerging from stone. Which means it's been hibernating in a mountain cycle like it was at the start of the TV series.
This means it can't be the first time it's used the Moonlight Butterfly. And it can't be the present of the Turn A TV series because it ends on earth, after engulfing the planet. Also implies it can't be the cycle directly after the TV series because it start on earth and ends up on earth.
>This means it can't be the first time it's used the Moonlight Butterfly
Which is fine, because using the moonlight butterfly doesn't mean the end of the world as the ending of the show demonstrates. It's not actually that powerful unless it's able to spend time in the atmosphere. The Turn X was also found in a mountain cycle on the moon despite the Turn A only being stated and shown to have destroyed the Earth's civilization, and obviously the moonrace still exists. Mountain cycles in and of themselves have nothing to do with wiping out the planet. You've created an imaginary version of the moonlight butterfly in your mind. It's used multiple times in the show and in the short term it could definitely surround itself in a mountain cycle but it only ended the Earth's civilization one time.
>And it can't be the present of the Turn A TV series because it ends on earth, after engulfing the planet
We already know that because Lalah says it's destroying the Universal Century.
>Also implies it can't be the cycle directly after the TV series because it start on earth and ends up on earth.
Again, we already know that because Lalah says it's destroying the Universal Century. The event of wiping out universal century is the same one from the TV show. And there's no hints that it's repeated.
So what imaginary situation did you create for this to work the way you want it to?
Turn A used a tiny Moonlight Butterfly and everyone left it alone long enough for a mountain cycle to form around it?
Your headcanon takes a lot more imagination than what is actually implied visually. Don't expect it to catch on.
>The Turn X was also found in a mountain cycle on the moon despite the Turn A only being stated and shown to have destroyed the Earth's civilization, and obviously the moonrace still exists.
You got this backwards. The moon was specifically protected because it was covered in mountain cycles. They say it in the show. The moonlight butterfly doesn't just destroy, it also can preserve. That's what the mountain cycles are.
There's no backwards or forwards here. Mountain cycles are a result of the moonlight butterfly being used. That's all it means. The other anon believes that mountain cycles only occur after the world has been wiped out, I'm saying they're just a result of the moonlight butterfly being used, which doesn't mean the world was wiped out.
The setting necessitates the Moonlight Butterfly hitting the moon ether way for the mountain cycles to be there.
Again, that has nothing to do with wiping out civilization, or wiping out anything for that matter. All it means is that the moonlight butterfly was used on the moon, possibly even with the exclusive purpose of protecting it. A mountain cycle does not mean that the earth (or moon) was wiped out. In fact, the moon mountain cycle is proof that mountain cycles are not evidence of a civilization being wiped out.
Even in the light of life the Turn A only flies around the Earth before powering down and sinking to the ground and then when it cuts away to space, seemingly in real physical time since it doesn't have the haziness of one of Lalah's visions, there's a space colony floating in orbit of the Earth.
I mean it implies it covered the entire moon. Whether or not it was from all the way down on earth isn't known.
I don't think that's the case. it only needed to cover the clustered cities and some of the surroundings to create mountain cycles to protect the moonrace.
>Whether or not it was from all the way down on earth isn't known
I think it's pretty clear it wasn't. It's only ever stated that the Turn A turned Earth's civilization to dust, and the Zacktrager and Mistletoe are just floating in Earth's and the moon's orbits respectively.
I'm curious who you think preceded UC and created the Turn A if you think earth's civilization was wiped out before? You're implying that light of life is throwing out all data, setting, and gunpla manual information about the Turn A being a knock off Turn X, which was believed to be made by humans who left for space sometime during UC.
Yes. That is what I am implying. It clearly doesn't line up with Turn A canon.
Yea, that's a lot more headcanon involved than the Turn A wrapped itself up to repair itself somewhere before going for the nuclear option. Mountain cycles are a latent result of the nanomachines spreading out but they're said to repair or maintain machinery.
>This short Tomino wasn't involved in, that contradicts the information we know about Turn A from what we know from the TV series does not line up with Turn A's continuity
>"headcanon"
That's a problem no matter what. There's no magnetic storms and no fight with Turn X, meaning it can't be the time it used the MB to wipe out UC as depicted in the show. It's a rewrite ether way.
>There's no magnetic storms
Huh?
>no fight with Turn X
The show never shows the Black History Turn A fighting the Turn X. It shows up flying over an ocean into a city and then flies around the planet covering it in storms exactly like it does in the short. The fight is only stated to have happened at some point, not even when. For all we know it may have been decades or hundreds of years before Earth was wiped out. Armageddon was said to have lasted several hundreds of years and it's implied the Turn X and A were procured/built during it and the Turn A put an end to it, since it's referred to as humanity's final war.
Here's a side by side comparison of the flyby from both versions of the event. When you look at these buildings, do you think "Fukui meant for this to be two totally different events and he thinks the Turn A wipes out every civilization" or do you think "he probably meant for these to be the same events but in an updated artstyle"?
I don't think the buildings matter as much as things like the MB itself and Turn A emerging from a moon cycle. So this really isn't swaying me at all.
I'm not saying it is supporting the idea that all the AUs take place in one timeline (because I hate this idea), but it very specifically shows Turn A emerge from an encasement of stone, wake up and immediately go MLB before going to sleep. This leaves no room for it's fight with Turn X or the time it kicked up magnetic storms like it did in the Black History footage we see in Turn A. So it does seem to be a different iteration than the one from the TV series' history, even if you choose to interpret the new color scheme as a stylistic choice.
The MB doesn't create the stone surrounding mountain cycles. That's naturally forming. So no matter what the short animation implies Turn A is waking up from a VERY long nap, regardless of it using the MB to a large extent or not. With JUST the information from Light of Life Chronicle UC, it implies Turn A is already ancient by the time It destroys UC. Which makes no sense and doesn't match any other interpretation of what happened.
You're trying too hard to make this fit when it doesn't.
>The MB doesn't create the stone surrounding mountain cycles. That's naturally forming
That's straight up false. Sid said that Mountain Cycles have a specific geological structure made up of limestone caverns surrounded by volcanic ash, and below that is a sand like layer and a brittle layer. This is a specific characteristic of a mountain cycle. We don't know the mechanism by which the nanomachines are able to change the geology but they're able to recreate the structure all over the planet in a way so precise that Sid is able to identify them accurately. Not to mention the caverns themselves are heavily implied to be artificial.
Also, the Turn A in Light of Life isn't even caked up in the rocky layer all the old suits in the TV show were. It was just sitting somewhere below ground for a little while.
That's literally just describing a normal limestone formation lol
I think it'd be neat to see a survivor of one of the Turn A's solar system purges work to restore humanity and civilization himself to counter when the Turn A would appear again. The Turn A's nanomachines are said to be able to repair even the pilot, akin to the DG Cells they originate from, so perhaps such a survivor could attain immortality by completely 'repairing' his entire body using such nanomachines and becoming part of the very mobile suit he pilots.
Fukui is just an idiot.
Being a genius and understanding that Tomino is no longer needed to make great Gundam shows. He is after the JJ Abrams of Gundam and Yamato.
what needs to be done to get fukui the frick away from gundam, especially uc
Retroactively make Unicorn not sell.
I really don’t understand why Sunrise keeps hiring a man who very clearly doesn’t understand shit about Gundam. I know Unicorn is a money printing machine for them but it’s crazy how a man that has worked with Tomino for years and has a massive range of knowledge regarding UC doesn’t seem to understand very basic concepts laid out in it
in a similar vein, anybody know why yatate basically was given free rein to do whatever he wants with late uc? i just finished crossbone and while i think it started a bit slow i thought it really really comes together in the second half, and he really strikes me as a guy who understood gundam with all his jupter/newtype stuff he does in crossbone
just wondering where he got his "in" with sunrise and if crossbone did good enough for them to let him do whatever, or if they just dont give a frick
As long as X1 kits continue to sell, Banrise will continue to let him write his insane crack Fanfiction
Unicorn is the literal god machine and stomps the Turn A so much that they have to retroactively put more gimmicks in Turn A so it can still have the title of the strongest and "end all be all" Gundam
what does the unicorn even do though? it grew a bunch of rocks then died
basically handwaves warps reality to its liking and rewinds time. Unicorn is the highest of the highest of all power level fights. Turn A cannot compete.
basically this recon is just to keep sucking Tomino's wiener and please papa Tomino and keep Turn A as the strongest and the end of all Gundams.
unicorn is such an embarrassing mess, i'll never forgive fukui
And without him, we wouldn't be moving forward into the second half of the universal century.
hathaway is doing that single handedly, while ignoring literally everything that happened in unicorn
If you actually read the fricking story or watched the movie you'd realize that unicorn doesn't need to be referenced. We wouldn't have HF movies without Unicorn fricktard.
Not official so doesn't matter.
>you'd realize that unicorn doesn't need to be referenced
so unicorn is completely fricking unimportant?
No, but people expect every fricking work to hing on that entry when they don't have to.
Forgive me for thinking that considering Unicorn does backflips to insist that THE BOX WILL CHANGE THE FACE OF THE UNIVERSAL CENTURY AND REWRITE THE POWER BALANCE and then absolutely nothing comes of it and the god powered super machines that make it all happen get tucked away and the whole thing is forgotten about. I wouldn’t even be that bothered if Unicorn took place in like 0578 or some shit because at least it won’t clash with anything else now but since Fukui has a such a raging hard on for Neo Neo Neo Neo Neo Zeon 2: Electric Bawoogaloo and forcing Mineva into everything he writes, he couldn’t leave wel enough alone and had to retroactively sully CCA and Hathaway with his atrocious writing
The super powered machines are too busy playing time police to prevent other psychoframe machines exist, except f95 apparently has psychoframe now for reasons.
Sorry, F91 I mean.
Always has. The F91 having psycoframe goes all the way back to movie tie in booklets
Bandai has flip flopped on that multiple times.
It's more like they went silent about it for a while, but it's back now as of the prequel manga.
everyone is scared of what Laplace box contains because what can happen if it was revealed.
it is akin to something like when the US founding constitution being written, a horrible accident happened, and when it was revealed there is a amendment that says that black people are just 3/5ths of a person and they have to be treated like slaves.
then we fast forward to now, a few people uncovered the truth that the original draft of the constitution has an amendment that black people are to be treated the same as white and requires them to have 1/2 of the positions in the government.
what do you think will happen? will it be the same day as usual? will there be chimpouts like the BLM protests? will there be civil war?
that was the dilemma the Laplace box presented. would everyone care? would it lead to another "Zeon-like uprising from spacenoids being vindicated all this time?
well, in UC's case, the general people never cared enough or they were sick of war that the box never amounted to anything anyway.
>well, in UC's case, the general people never cared enough or they were sick of war that the box never amounted to anything anyway.
There's also how it's unclear if it refers to spacenoids or newtypes (lets say black people or africans) and regardless, all the spacenoids live in space colonies meaning full segregation so even if there were riots it's be black people rioting in wakanda.
>And without him, we wouldn't be moving forward into the second half of the universal century.
Crossbone has existed since before the PS2.
It's able to revert matter to previous states, but it seems very localized. There's /m/ stuff that can rewind time as a whole or even rewrite reality itself. Even blue frame Phenex couldn't seem to maintain light speed in normal combat. I'd hardly call them "highest of the highest of all power level fights." even limited to just /m/.
please tell me what Gundam can rewind time, rewrite reality other than the Unicorn Gundam?
please shitpost your superrobot moronation elsewhere
You have abysmal reading comprehension.
You specially said
>of all power level fights.
Implying you were not only not limiting this to Gundam but not limiting this to mecha at all.
Most powerlevel debate shit isn't even /m/ anyways.
You are an absolute moron, have a nice day.
It turned into an actual God and rewound time or some shit, I’m pretty sure Fukui said in an interview too that it can also blow up the universe if it wanted and do all other kinds of ridiculous DBZ tier bullshit
i always assumed the neo zeong did the time horse shit
It’s after that when it goes fully beyond the time and turns into a giant crystal or whatever. The manual for the Crystal Version HG says something completely fricking moronic like the psychoframe in it is so powerful it can wipe out the universe
Even an upgraded Unicorn type couldn't beat G-self without a backpack, get over it.
that's a Phenex in red mode though, a green Unicorn would easily just handwave G-Self and it would dismantle itself.
Show me where that happens? Cause it's still G-self 1, Phenex (With a Photon upgrade) 0.
Why is Rita allowing herself to be used like this?
its just to please papa Tomino and suck his wiener and keep him sedated.
angry Tomino is a vengeful Tomino
Its a copy/bootleg of the original phenex iirc
Which doesn't make sense, if you read the specifications of the unicorn they blow the shit up of the g-self. Would be like comparing a Zaku II with V-2
The G-Self's specs are unknown moron. But considering we know
Yes but G-Reco came out after Unicorn, meaning it has the new suit shilling advantage. Also, the Phenex is being piloted by Luin, who is mediocre at best.
>Talk big about Unicorn power level shit
>Shrink back to "that doesn't make sense!" When it's put into action and doesn't meet fan expectation.
Classic.
Unicorn is literally the Jiren of Gundam and all it’s fans are literally /dbs/-tier low iq spics
He made Turn A into some stupid time loop fanfiction for some bizarre reason.
He's injecting Super Robot back into Gundam, what a mad lad. Can't wait for Unicorn 2 where they use the psychoframe to hop into another dimension and fight Getter Emperor.
Wait a minute, whay the hell is going on here? What Fukui have to do with Turn A Gundam? There's a new animation involving it? How I never heard of any of this?
>There's a new animation
Like eight years ago bro.
Why are 3rd worlders so obsessed with power levels?
What else would they make charts of? It's not that they like powerlevels, it's that they have a chart fetish.
What makes people defend Unicorn bs
i’m convinced it’s pure contrarianism a sakuga gays
Sakugagays, shonengays who grew up on DBZ, etc. i have seen people on other sites recommend it as a intro to the UC so I’m assuming crackheads as well
honestly the sakuga is the worst thing about unicorn, in the sense that im completely fricking jealous of how gorgeous it is given the contents of its story are so bad. it feels like if zeta still looked like 79 and then zz looked like zeta
because no matter how much you seethe, Unicorn is part of the canon UC history
in fact, makes me wonder what makes morons go reeeeeeee against Unicorn. other Tomino works is also full of moronation, so what makes his work so special? The only remotely well written UC Gundam is 0080.
tomino never made a gundam time travel. also claiming stardust memory is well written is utterly deranged
oops, fricked up the titles
0080 is definitely well written but you can feel the director fricking dying halfway through which drags it down
That’s 08th MS Team you neanderthal
Tomino may not have time travel, but his gundams are full of other moronation.
also...
>0080
>Stardust Memory
>but his gundams are full of other moronation.
such as?
a high school dropout who doesnt have a license in engineering somehow designed a MS better than the licensed engineers at Anaheim
a ship captain picking stray children to put on the battleship as morale upper
the whole 2/3rds of ZZ
the poofter Loran crossdressing subplot that really goes nowhere, we all know its just Tomino's barely disguised fetish
Kamille's moronic sense of honor in battle wont let him shoot enemies during space reentry but willing to push a crippled guy off a cliff.
there are many more, but I have to rewatch all of them again to list them out.
>a high school dropout who doesnt have a license in engineering somehow designed a MS better than the licensed engineers at Anaheim
no clue what you're even trying to refer to here, but this is absolutely a nitpick
>a ship captain picking stray children to put on the battleship as morale upper
if this is about 79 the kids escaped from the colony, yeah they should have been dropped off but they werent there for "morale"
>the whole 2/3rds of ZZ
this is the only part of zz that is even remotely good (it's still shit)
>the poofter Loran crossdressing subplot that really goes nowhere, we all know its just Tomino's barely disguised fetish
its thematic you dip, read more literature
>Kamille's moronic sense of honor in battle wont let him shoot enemies during space reentry but willing to push a crippled guy off a cliff.
this is moronic, he learns what war is very fast and drops this shtick
Zeta Gundam being designed is not a nitpick. its Tominos moronic way to show that Kamille is somehow a good newtype because he can design robots, but it blows a hole in world building. if a highschool dropout can design a better machine compared to other real engineers because he's a newtype, why hire engineers, just let newtypes design the robots.
Bright has a moronic idea to pick up Shinta and Qum. he didnt pick them up from a battlefield. he picked them up for the sole reason of being the ship mascot. that is fricking moronic. picking up orphans to put in a ship where they go to battlefield to battlefield is simply moronic. But this is Tomino trying to recapture the 3 brats from original Gundam
No. Loran crossdressing subplot goes nowhere. he declares himself to the world he is moonrace, so there is fricking 0 point in crossdressing to hide the pilot's identity. its just there to serve Tomino's moronic ideas for episode fillers.
Kamille is moronic all the way through
>but it blows a hole in world building
Amuro designed the Haro, Kamille's parents were both engineers so it's not a reach to think he could have picked up after them, especially since they worked for Anaheim, if anything, it's consistent with worldbuilding
>Bright has a moronic idea to pick up Shinta and Qum
The kids were Blex's, Char kept them aboard as a way of repaying him, they also help in tasks like cooking and delivering food, they're not just mascots.
Haro is like a hobby robot. an MS is a highly complex machine that is 18 meters tall full of electronics.
Kamille is not an engineer. he is a highschool dropout. That is like a highschool who wants to be an architect designing skycrapers better than licensed architect.
would you even trust to build a skycraper designed by an unlicensed architect?
>would you even trust to build a skycraper designed by an unlicensed architect?
Yes, because architecture is primarily the aesthetics while the engineering is an entirely separate accreditation?
well, you are going to kill people. even if the engineering is good, if the design is bad from the getgo, its gonna fail. and architects are also responsible for structural design, materials and structure integrity.
Any design is going to have to be drafted by a certified engineer and approved by a county board. Please learn how the real world works.
AE still had to prototype the Zeta Gundam. That's what the flying armor is, and is stated as such on screen. The sunrise profile for the Hyaku Shiki also says it's the middle child of the Zeta development project.
and Kamille still designed the thing, as he passed the data of Zeta Gundam design to Astonaige
Just the initial design or concept. He needed an explanation about the flying armor and a manual for the Zeta Gundam when he received them. Obviously there was a lot of work done by other people between his initial design and him getting the MS from Anaheim
>Bright has a moronic idea to pick up Shinta and Qum.
watch the show with your eyes open next time
Kamille didn't make it alone though
>all nitpicks
Well you tried at least
>a high school dropout who doesnt have a license in engineering somehow designed a MS better than the licensed engineers at Anaheim
It’s said in the very episode that Kamille won mobile suit development competitions and miniature gliders. His parents are also directly working with the Titans and designing mobile suits so by familial association he’d be aware of the mechanisations of them.
>a ship captain picking stray children to put on the battleship as morale upper
That was Char who brought them on board and the idea is that it provides the atmosphere of a family. The kids and Fraw in 0079 were popular with female viewers for the mother-child aspects and this is just a repeat of that
>the whole 2/3rds of ZZ
Filtered.
>the poofter Loran crossdressing subplot that really goes nowhere, we all know its just Tomino's barely disguised fetish
It’s there to build up both Loran and Guin’s characters. Loran as someone who has to do something that he finds stupid and embarrassing but knows is for the good of those around him and Guin as a total weirdo who has a crush on Loran and uses people around him for his own gain.
>Kamille's moronic sense of honor in battle wont let him shoot enemies during space reentry but willing to push a crippled guy off a cliff.
This gets dropped immediately after he realises that war isn’t so cut and dry and he can’t afford to spare people one moment but kill them the next
frick off with your reddit show homosexual
Probably because a lot of places like Reddit recommend new Gundam fans to start with Unicorn as their entry to UC, so Unicorn is basically the honeymoon show for most younger UC fans
I hate Fukui! He ruined Gundam!
Foreshadowing the final chapter of Gundam, where every MC from every universe comes together to fight Dark History Turn A.
I want fukui to stop his raging boner with newtypes
Been reading moon gundam and for each good thing he has to shoehorn muh space magiks in stupid ways.
>2030
>Unicorn 2 finally comes out
>Banagher travels through time and stops the OYW through understanding
>talks down Scirocco, Haman and Char through understanding
>Unicorn MK 2 stops 50 colony lasers fired simultaneously by the federation with help from the Sleeves off-shoot group, the Cuffs and Queen Mineva
>so successful it becomes the best performing entry in the franchise’s history
>Fukui is given total control over the UC after Tomino’s death
>retcons Pyschoframes into 0079, Zeta and ZZ
How do you react?
Hit my head with a hammer and begin making /dbs/ tier shitposts
Ever notice that whenever someone criticises the Unicorn time travel bullshit, someone nearly always chimes in with ‘WELL WHAT ABOUT AXIS SHOCK OR THE BIOSENSOR????’. It’s the only fall back they have
Unicorn doesn't actually physically travel through time. It's Newtype ascend to a higher plane of existence "Amuro, I can see time!" shit, not it can physically pop into 0079 and change history or create an alternate timeline stuff.
Unicorn literally hand wave reverses time on the mobile suit reactors.
>A glorified disassembly ability with a dash of reversing nuclear decay and wear is the same thing as time travel.
I mean it's still supernatural bullshit, but I'd hardly classify it as any form of true time travel. The main presumed bit of quantum manipulation evident would be radioactive material in the reactors showing no sign of decay with a lack of wear on the parts from running. Saying it's a very specific form of rewinding time still doesn't convey how limited it is. It's more like undoing the effect of "time" on those objects .
Call me when Banagher fricks up the timeline by trying to save Mineva's dad.
According to an interview and despite what one shitposter who doesn't understand Japanese kept whining about it in a previous thread, Fukui says that the entire plot of NT happened because when Rita became a true newtype she sent her mind back in time to herself as a child to set things in motion for the entire movie to happen.
It's not full time travel since it's only sending her consciousness back but it's still changing things in the past to affect the future.
Literally Final Fantasy 8
>>A glorified disassembly ability with a dash of reversing nuclear decay and wear is the same thing as time travel.
I thought it was pretty distinctly different too, but Narrative literally has characters acting like they discovered time travel and want more.
I'm very sure Fukui said somewhere that he intended for Unicorn to travel time with Neo Zeong, in the literal sense of it. If not outright confirmed it, but outside of that Crystal Unicorn can rewind time in very specific instances like when he disassembled those mobile suits and NT confirms it.
Unicorn and Phenex shits out a psychofield that reverses time.
Unicorn shat out a psychofield causing the Jegans' parts to rewind back to a state that it was before built.
Phenex shits out a psychofield that causes parts of Narrative A-packs to rewind back in time to a state before it was built, causing it to fall apart.
>But then Tomino went and said that Turn A doing that happened BEFORE G Reco and also made that impossible timeline
>Fukui thinks that everything Tomino says should be taken as absolute
It's settled then.
The Word of God ALWAYS wins
It's funny because after Tomino said that Sunrise tried to run it back super hard to the point that Tomino had to make a statement that in the end it's Sunrise and not him who decides what the timeline looks like.
And then they ran to Fukui to fix it for them and instead he went "nah Tomino said it so it's canon" and came up with this nonsense.
>thinks everything Tomino says should be taken as divine fact
>still completely misunderstands numerous aspects of the UC and forces his own tripe into what Tomino originally set up
He actually runs everything he does by Tomino first, the problem is that it seems that Tomino is senile and just says whatever in response to all the stuff he comes up with. This was done in public at a talk show once where he asked Tomino if psychoframe was ideonite and Tomino clearly had no idea what he was talking about and just shrugged going "sure, whatever you say" and thanks to that Fukui seems to be working on the premise that Gundam is an actual literal sequel to Ideon and all this nonsense bullshit
is possibly the doing of Ide.
I'm willing to bet that this is what Fukui is building up to:
-Turn A is a vessel of ide that resets mankind on a regular basis because ide hates war
-Psychoframe wasn't actually invented by humans, it's shards of ideon that they discovered that are older than known history
-Unicorn 2 is about how the Unicorn (and maybe Banshee and Phenex) are becoming vessels for ide and are going to reset civilization. Since UC does continue on after they are stopped but mankind gets scared of psychoframe tech and stops using it
And I'd go as far as to say this might happen
-The psychoframe going out of control results in Unicorn literally transforming into Turn A
Roses are red
Loran’s not black
Tomino’s got dementia
And Fukui’s on crack
>“Tomino-san, I’ve got a great idea for Unicorn 2! So in this one, Banagher goes like HYPER Newtype, y’know like in Dunbine, that show you made. Is that also canon to Ideon? Oh I already know it is! Anyway, Banagher goes Hyper Newtype and get this, he BECOMES Char. That’s right, Char is back! So now Charnagher has to use the PYSCHOFRAME to go beyond the time and help Mineva defeat the Federation who have been RAPING AND MURDERING everyone on Earth! What do you think?”
>”hnuuu Aida-san’s thighs jmmmmm. *dribbles all over the floor*
Smart Tomino.
>Bellri's hair stiffening when Aida came in meant he had an erection to Aida
Pure kino
>y’know like in Dunbine, that show you made. Is that also canon to Ideon?
oh you joke but I'm convinced that fukui's ultimate plan is to connect them all
even xabungle
considering Zeta Gundam forgot that its a Gundam series and became Dunbine in the last 2 episodes....
Xabungle's already in Ideon, so that doesn't require anything, and G-Reco implies that King Gainer happened during the gap between the UC and RC.
How did Greco imply that? I completely missed it.
Shows the Overdevil in mandalas in the credits.
Same power source: Photons
Fake, Tomino would be contemplating Aida's pussy, not her thighs.
I knew that ZZ Ideon manga waa canon
Lmao holy shit at the state of tomino/Fukai though
What is this from? Did a new turn a thing happen?
They made a clip show special a few years back where Amuro and Lalah watch Turn A Moonlight Butterfly everything from Newtype Heaven, Amuro gets depressed at thinking humanity wiped itself out, they recap every UC anime released up to that point, the AU's only get like a one minute collage while Lalah says something or other about time being a spiral, and Lalah shills Hathaway and Moon Gundam in moment that practically breaks the fourth wall, and finally reassures Amuro that Turn A didn't completely eradicate life like thought cheering him up.
>they recap every UC anime released up to that point
Nah, the only UC series directly mentioned in that part is CCA, when Lalah says the light of the Turn-A is the same one seen in Axis.
After the AUs though, they go on to show the then upcoming UC Stuff (Moon Gundam, Unicorn (I guess it might actually be Narrative?), Hathaway).
>Nah, the only UC series directly mentioned in that part is CCA
No, they do look at clips from everything, though they gloss over most of details of the individual series in favor of broadstrokes. 0079, CCA and Unicorn get the most focus, with just enough 0083, Zeta, ZZ (they explain how Zeon remants continuing to fight(showing the Delaz fleets actions) lead to formation of the Titans, which in turn lead to the Gryps conflict(with Amuro briefly reminiscing on Kamille), which lead to the first Neo Zeon War (with them deciding to focus on the creation of Ple series because that's more relevant to Unicorn than anything Judau did)) to cover the gaps. Clips from 0080 and 08th MS team are essentially cameos during the OWY recap. Clips from Narrative are used to show the colony drop, and further emphasize the Earth Federation's corruption with the Titans, Newtype experimentation, and the stuff surrounding Unicorn.
F91 and Victory are covered in tangent where they talked about how despite Zeonism in name died out, the enmity many spacenoids felt towards the Earth federation did not, resulting in the rise Cosmo Aristocracy.
The majority recap isn't so much about the characters(except Amuro, and Char a little), but about how the earth federation is horrible and corrupt, which in turn leads to spacenoids overreacting by turning to dictators promising them violent revenge on their oppressors.
There are also a few diversions where they talk about how awesome the Gundams and their pilots were in a very generalized fashion.
It's only 45 minutes. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone looking for a crash course on Gundam or UC, but if you want see how Amuro and Lalah are spending eternity and see Amuro despair on on bleak Universal Century is, it's not going to eat up too much of your time.
Wait 45 minutes? The one I watched was about 8 minutes.
Whatever you watched was only a clip anon.
>The universal century version of heaven is seeing people kill each other for an eternity learning your sacrifice was in vain
Sounds more like hell.
This shot changes EVERYTHING. Gundam will NEVER be the same again.
I'll never understand timeline homosexualry. At least with a series that has so many creators all over it like UC Gundam. Even with the whole Turn-A G-Reco timeline shit, I cannot understand why people seethe so much about it. It serves little to no purpose where those shows take place in relation to another. Feels like people would rather talk about that than the actual events and themes of their respective plotlines.
So, I have been reading more supplemental materials regarding the moronation of Kamille designing Zeta Gundam, and it turns out that he wasn't even responsible for it.
TL;DR: during UC 86, AEUG ordered a MS capable of reentry and transforming and still be an MS size suit, which can help them for the assault in Jaburo.
Dr. Pilsudski, Dr. Gluck and Dr. Lyell were responsible for the TMS Gundam Project. They made 2 prototypes, the Methuss (which fails AEUG's demands because its a space-only and can't reentry) and Hyaku-Shiki (which failed because the Delta Gundam's torso is crushed on its own weight when transforming)
during the assault on Jaburo, AEUG was supplied with the Flying Armor since the Zeta Gundam was delayed. because of it, AEUG is now questioning if the Zeta Gundam is needed. desperate, the AEUG chairman Carbine turned to Hervic Aeroplanes to help them with the Zeta Gundam.
So in the end, Kamille's Zeta Gundam was just a useless scribble he gave to Astonaige who most likely threw in the trash and the real people responsible for the Zeta Gundam, are forgotten. Kamille has been the attributed designer for the Zeta Gundam for propaganda purposes.
welp, at least no I am relieved regarding the design of Zeta Gundam because I cannot accept that a high school droupout can design a better MS than licensed and engineering doctorates.
now how Emma knows about the Bio-Sensor in the Zeta Gundam and how she know it is powered by the dead souls and tells it to Kamille is another stupid moment in Zeta Gundam
>So, I have been reading more supplemental materials regarding the moronation of Kamille designing Zeta Gundam, and it turns out that he wasn't even responsible for it.
Supplemental material is virtually all 3rd party and technically isn't "canon". Sunrise doesn't give a shit about it and never will. They have their own website with profiles that completely contradict most of the data and setting books published by companies like kadokawa
IT WAS THE IDE
IT WAS THE IDE ALL ALONG