Shit like this is why Bruce ended up alone with a cool dog and his memories when Wonder Woman was doing nothing but giving him the greenlight to go batty on her catty. Especially since Selena is just too much of a selfish bullshitter to ever stay on the side of justice for too long and Babs being alone with a hot billionaire scientist ninja detective for too long as the only woman he trusts to not only know this man's darkest secret but actively share in his passions would make tears cry down her leg nightly.
he ended up alone because that's what Frank Miller did and Timms was going what dozen of people involved with adapting Bat series have done and aped off Dark Knight Returns
TDKR batman then crawls out of retirement, gets a new robin who teaches him to hope again, and then cleans up gotham city after beating up a giant mutant and inheriting his army of future-slang talking weirdoes
NTA, but claiming that TDKR wasn't a major influence on Batman Beyond is the height of either stupidity or disingenuousness. Batman Beyond is basically a critique of some of the ideas in TDKR, namely that Batman could fix Gotham by just punching enough people. Superheroes failed in the DCAU, or at least the Justice League generation failed.
Where was WonderWoman during Beyond? They had that epsiode or maybe it was JLU where Terry teams up with old Superman and the new Justice League. You'd imagine that Diana would be there. Amazonians should age at a slower rate than the rest of humanity.
She was supposed to be in the episode instead of Barda but legal issues kept them from using her. IIRC the Marston estate only allowed Diana in shows if she was a main character.
The most devastating thing to happen to the character was DC giving up on the girls market. Her and Captain Marvel are targeted to audiences that DC gave up on in terms of comics.
Why'd the writers feel the need to do this? Batman didn't get injected with bat DNA to become a good Batman, so why does Terry need Bruce's biology to be a good Batman? I'd unironically rather have Terry be Bruce's actual estranged son or some shit. Though, the best option would be to have Terry be just some guy.
people have hated terry from the start for simply being just a dude unrelated to batman. Writters were trying to fix a non-issue and only made it's actual fans upset and his haters gave them extra reason to hate him or didn't cared. A tale as old as time.
It's hard to say back then in the lat 90s/early 00s, memes that caught on had had way more impact because they had to be shared much more irl. Saying Terry is shit on site redbit in 2024 doesn't imply anything other than site redbit doesn't like him. Saying Terry is shit at a comic con in 1999 doesn't give any clear indicator how far the feelings for it go, you either listen to them or don't but only in hindsight can you know if it was the right call.
And all because Amanda Waller watched Batman comfort a dying reality-warper so she doesn't melt the brains of everybody in the city when she dies.
God, the Ace bit was even dumber than the whole clone ordeal.
gotta say that was the most elaborate explanation to why someone named their dog what they did.
>Though, the best option would be to have Terry be just some guy.
True, besides Damian, Robin has always been "just some unrelated kid who Batman takes under his wing" so why this time when it's a unrelated kid in the far future there's a big issue? Because the kid takes the role of Batman?
>Because the kid takes the role of Batman?
Yep that's literally it. Nerds back then were fricking stupid. If only they knew how bad things in the future would get.
He was some guy, until a different show years later had an episode touching on all this. Terry basically shrugged it off anyway, but it felt like an unprovoked kick in the bat-balls to some fans.
Anon is talking about Batman's physicality. Bruce didn't get his skills because he was some eugenics project. He got them because of a dedicated commitment and drive to be the best he could possibly be.
>No no, Terry didn't choose to become the new Batman out of selfish vengeance, only to accept the responsibility in earnest. He was genetically engineered for the job!
I will never understand why any writer would ever make a creative decision that reduces or even outright removes the protagonist's agency.
Writer you are men now, you must choose >he dyes his hair black
Or >his father was secretly injected with the stolen cum juice of Bruce Wayne and then intentionally murdered in order to manufacture a perfect copy of Batman for a new generation
How about "Nobody ever gave a singular frick about the hair color discrepancy, and most people didn't even notice. Stop pretending otherwise, you blithering sperg.".
My headcanon had always been that Terry and Matt were adopted, which is why Warren had such a difficult time disciplining Terry since "he's not his real father". My headcanon was also that Terry was Selena's son that she tried to use to trap Bruce into a shotgun marriage, but he didn't call her bluff, so she abandoned him at a Catholic orphanage.
>>his father was secretly injected with the stolen cum juice of Bruce Wayne and then intentionally murdered in order to manufacture a perfect copy of Batman for a new generation
This sounds like a good backstory for a villain, but not Terry. Just have him dye his hair black or some shit.
Back to the first point though, the Arkham Knight game showed me that an evil Batman fighting a good Batman can make for a cool story. A "Bat-Fake" who was made to be a clone of Bruce in some bizarre way should really be its own standalone thing.
Why not just have Terry's dad be the Batman clone? I would have did half and half by saying Terry's dad was a clone but instead of a vigilante, he became a cop or a fire fighter or something. It would have been ambiguous if the Bruce clone thing even worked, and if it did, it would have still been a question if the genes made the clone a super hero or if the guy just naturally gravitated towards heroics.
There's a message in that. Nurture vs Nature vs Birthright and such. In that case, the episode would have been interesting as Terry would both be the son of Bruce, but it might not have mattered.
Not sure if that would have worked, but yea, I think the main issue is how unclear the clone tech was. If I'm remembering the episode right, Terry mentions what Joker did, suggesting the project used the same thing as the chip that was put in Drake's neck. Of course, one would think the tech used on Terry's dad was more advanced, since it's sometime before Terry's conception, and obviously some years after Joker's death and the whole fiasco with Robin. Or hell, go for something vague like "your father now had a 50/50 chance of producing a kid who was biologically Bruce's" and that way, you keep things in the air if Terry is Bruce's or not. I know there's still the hair thing, but this shit is already defying logic in the first place, and not even the most ridiculous thing seen in the DCAU in terms of playing with DNA like its fricking Legos
>We destroyed a man’s balls so he can only squirt out Bruce juice.
Also I know she says “he thought he was just getting a vaccination.” Does that mean you gave it others with simular psychological profiles as Thomas Wayne? How many people are shooting out little Bruces??
I didn't mind the reveal too much, but I won't deny that it could have been played out in possibly better ways. Like the injection wasn't 100% certain, and that there's still a chance for Terry to be Warren's kid, and then keeping the ending more or less the same with Terry deciding he doesn't care since Warren was the man who raised him, and he choose to become Batman of his own volition and not because of a possible "birthright"
It was definitely a strange move, feeling like Bruce Timm had been playing the MGS games and thought "Oh cool, I want one of my characters to be a clone/son of someone" and just didn't think out the existential stuff nearly as much. And while the stuff with Ace was pretty endearing, it does feel like two episodes that got mashed together and used for a finale that barely has anything to do with the show it finaled for
This was their desperate ploy to legitimize Beyond as a valid AU future for Batman in all media but all it did was prove that the series was extremely expensive fan fiction. Give Timm enough rope and he will eventually hang himself with it.
I thought it was interesting how Morrison made Beyond a possible future in the main DCU, but pushed it forward a generation where Damian is the grumpy old man in the chair teaching Terry
Because DC always insists that only Bruce Wayne is allowed to be Batman, so retconning the no-name street punk that is Terry into a Bruce clone is how the DCAU compromised.
I remember a headcanon somebody posted on Cinemaphile ages ago that pitched Terry as Bruce's grandson, and his mom was Bruce's estranged daughter that hid her family roots from her kids, to try and keep the family connection but make it not moronic. I should try and find it.
You can debate if it's gay or not?
I mean, usually coming into contact with another man's sperm is pretty gay, but does it count if your body is making that man's cum for you?
I just love that the plan was to have some random dude knock up his wife with Bruce Wayne nut then have he and his wife be brutally murdered in front of the kids by a woman dressed as a ghost so they would them become Batmen sometime in the future. Yes there was more than one kid so it was always Batmen plural. Its so stupid it boggles the mind.
the plan never accounted for Matt, Terry would've been orphaned as a kid before he was born. But the DNA injection was apparently permanent which is why Matt also is a Wayne.
Batman Beyond was a great show but I hated it as an ending to Bruce. JLU was best ending. Bruce becoming a more open, less traumatized person due to finding a family and community in the Justice League should be the default. Tower of Babel has done irreparable harm to the character.
The further we get from when they aired, the more the comics diverge from them so I'm not surprised. Instead of seeing it as a distillation of the characters, they only see the weird choices it made.
I honest to God think the DCAU’s adaptation of Green Lantern did more harm than good by presenting them as jobbers who shoot green lasers and make generic constructs. Imagine being a fan of Hawkman and watching him getting cucked.
The silver age weakness being the fricking color yellow was already enough to make their rep in the gutter. The only time GL was ever truly "in" was Johns run. Otherwise they're thought of so low by most people the scrapped Jack Black script has him make a green Superman to save the day because they figured GL was lame compared to Superman in his own movie.
Green Lanterns have always been jobbers. If anything John Stewart was too competent to be a good portrayal of a GL.
But see this is where the show didn’t do them any justice. They didn’t present them in a cool matter. John never did anything impressive.
4 months ago
Anonymous
You say this, every comic nerd says this here, but in real life I knew plenty of people who liked John Stewart in the show. People here just call him boring(because they wanted Hal instead) but its the only place I see this opinion.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, people only remember him because he was black. Ask them what is best moment and they’ll say anything involving Flash.
4 months ago
Anonymous
I'd say Hawkgirl more than Flash. And again, I know who I talked to in real life, not biased comic dorks.
With Hal you get head butting with the Guardians, friendly rivalry with Guy, beef with Sinestro, and romance with Star Sapphire. We missed out.
We wouldn't because the show was pretty bad at working the mythos angles for most of those characters. Cheetah's most memorable moment is with Batman. Do Grodd and Flash have any memorable interactions? You wouldn't know Martian Manhunter or Hawkgirl have any mythos or villains outside of Mars/Thanagar.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Letting Batgays write other characters was kinda of a big ass mistake looking back on it.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Cheetah is lame. The other stuff they did with Wondy was good and she genuinely benefitted for the lesser parts of her mythos being dropped and them focusing on her relationships with the Amazons and the JL team members.
4 months ago
Anonymous
With Hal you get head butting with the Guardians, friendly rivalry with Guy, beef with Sinestro, and romance with Star Sapphire. We missed out.
Thanagarians had pretty good lore, a good storyarc, and they did a good job making Hawkgirl's character relevant to the stories and themes and her mace gave her a definite niche in team ups like the JL. DC being unable to capitalize on that and build off it is not the DCAU's fault.
4 months ago
Anonymous
It’s DC’s fault the DCAU made Hawkman into a creepy stalker and cuck?
4 months ago
Anonymous
That was a delusional Hawk fanboy and judging from your posts, it was an accurate portrayal.
Batman may be Beyond, but you will Seethe 4ever.
Shit like this is why Bruce ended up alone with a cool dog and his memories when Wonder Woman was doing nothing but giving him the greenlight to go batty on her catty. Especially since Selena is just too much of a selfish bullshitter to ever stay on the side of justice for too long and Babs being alone with a hot billionaire scientist ninja detective for too long as the only woman he trusts to not only know this man's darkest secret but actively share in his passions would make tears cry down her leg nightly.
he ended up alone because that's what Frank Miller did and Timms was going what dozen of people involved with adapting Bat series have done and aped off Dark Knight Returns
TDKR batman then crawls out of retirement, gets a new robin who teaches him to hope again, and then cleans up gotham city after beating up a giant mutant and inheriting his army of future-slang talking weirdoes
NTA, but claiming that TDKR wasn't a major influence on Batman Beyond is the height of either stupidity or disingenuousness. Batman Beyond is basically a critique of some of the ideas in TDKR, namely that Batman could fix Gotham by just punching enough people. Superheroes failed in the DCAU, or at least the Justice League generation failed.
He is still childless
Wonder woman was married to injustice superman
Holy shit. I've forgotten so much.
Doesn't Bruce bang Catwoman in almost every universe?
They even have a kid
DCAU Batman and Catwoman never had much chemistry.
Where was WonderWoman during Beyond? They had that epsiode or maybe it was JLU where Terry teams up with old Superman and the new Justice League. You'd imagine that Diana would be there. Amazonians should age at a slower rate than the rest of humanity.
She was supposed to be in the episode instead of Barda but legal issues kept them from using her. IIRC the Marston estate only allowed Diana in shows if she was a main character.
In hindsight, that was utterly devastating to the character.
The most devastating thing to happen to the character was DC giving up on the girls market. Her and Captain Marvel are targeted to audiences that DC gave up on in terms of comics.
Explain
They secretly injected Terry's dad there with Batman DNA so that his son will become Batman because the world always needs a Batman.
Why'd the writers feel the need to do this? Batman didn't get injected with bat DNA to become a good Batman, so why does Terry need Bruce's biology to be a good Batman? I'd unironically rather have Terry be Bruce's actual estranged son or some shit. Though, the best option would be to have Terry be just some guy.
people have hated terry from the start for simply being just a dude unrelated to batman. Writters were trying to fix a non-issue and only made it's actual fans upset and his haters gave them extra reason to hate him or didn't cared. A tale as old as time.
I'm calling you a liar and of pretending that everyone has always supported your own personal bias to make yourself look more right.
oh the irony
That sounds like a vocal minority if you ask me.
It's hard to say back then in the lat 90s/early 00s, memes that caught on had had way more impact because they had to be shared much more irl. Saying Terry is shit on site redbit in 2024 doesn't imply anything other than site redbit doesn't like him. Saying Terry is shit at a comic con in 1999 doesn't give any clear indicator how far the feelings for it go, you either listen to them or don't but only in hindsight can you know if it was the right call.
gotta say that was the most elaborate explanation to why someone named their dog what they did.
>Though, the best option would be to have Terry be just some guy.
True, besides Damian, Robin has always been "just some unrelated kid who Batman takes under his wing" so why this time when it's a unrelated kid in the far future there's a big issue? Because the kid takes the role of Batman?
>Because the kid takes the role of Batman?
Yep that's literally it. Nerds back then were fricking stupid. If only they knew how bad things in the future would get.
He was some guy, until a different show years later had an episode touching on all this. Terry basically shrugged it off anyway, but it felt like an unprovoked kick in the bat-balls to some fans.
Bruce Timm loves using his shows as a vehicle for his fetishes.
And all because Amanda Waller watched Batman comfort a dying reality-warper so she doesn't melt the brains of everybody in the city when she dies.
God, the Ace bit was even dumber than the whole clone ordeal.
made me finally like terry
the redesign helped too. bruce's genes took longer to kick in I guess.
>bruce's genes took longer to kick in I guess.
Artstyle changes are a b***h.
The idea that Batman is GENETICALLY INHERITED is just absolutely ridiculous.
>jealous he doesn't have the Bat Gene.
The bat gene is why Terrys dad died. If you have the bat gene you lose at least one parent or parental figure.
to be fair, they factored in both nature and nurture into the equation
planning to murder his parents to incite him to be batman
it was only by really bad luck that he lost a parent to blight anyways and caused him to be batman
Anon is talking about Batman's physicality. Bruce didn't get his skills because he was some eugenics project. He got them because of a dedicated commitment and drive to be the best he could possibly be.
>a dedicated commitment
can only do so much without the proper equipment you need good genetics to be the best of the best
The Cum Shot
>let's just take away the idea that anyone can be Batman, you have to have the "bat gene" to be Batman
Such a kick in the shin.
The new beyond comics removed this idea
terry's hair is black due to recessive gene from Mary McGinnis
If only those comics weren't such a mess.
But his son would have been one sperm away from being Turner Hayes or Ryan Wilder instead.
>Turner Hayes
Doesn't exist.
>Ryan Wilder
Terry's mom wasn't black.
i mean, wasn't the whole point of the episode that Waller fricked up hard time and that terry would've probably become batman regardless?
>No no, Terry didn't choose to become the new Batman out of selfish vengeance, only to accept the responsibility in earnest. He was genetically engineered for the job!
I will never understand why any writer would ever make a creative decision that reduces or even outright removes the protagonist's agency.
This gave me a new fetish.
Good news anon, I have a game for you!
This episode isn't canon in my eyes I don't give a FRICK WHAT THE WRITERS SAY FRICK THEM
Writer you are men now, you must choose
>he dyes his hair black
Or
>his father was secretly injected with the stolen cum juice of Bruce Wayne and then intentionally murdered in order to manufacture a perfect copy of Batman for a new generation
How about "Nobody ever gave a singular frick about the hair color discrepancy, and most people didn't even notice. Stop pretending otherwise, you blithering sperg.".
My headcanon had always been that Terry and Matt were adopted, which is why Warren had such a difficult time disciplining Terry since "he's not his real father". My headcanon was also that Terry was Selena's son that she tried to use to trap Bruce into a shotgun marriage, but he didn't call her bluff, so she abandoned him at a Catholic orphanage.
>>his father was secretly injected with the stolen cum juice of Bruce Wayne and then intentionally murdered in order to manufacture a perfect copy of Batman for a new generation
This sounds like a good backstory for a villain, but not Terry. Just have him dye his hair black or some shit.
Back to the first point though, the Arkham Knight game showed me that an evil Batman fighting a good Batman can make for a cool story. A "Bat-Fake" who was made to be a clone of Bruce in some bizarre way should really be its own standalone thing.
I always assumed that in the future, people could have whatever hair color no matter their family history.
Yeah, there's multiple episodes about extreme body mods and genetic modification, but a kid with black hair? Don't be crazy; bust out the cum gum.
Why not just have Terry's dad be the Batman clone? I would have did half and half by saying Terry's dad was a clone but instead of a vigilante, he became a cop or a fire fighter or something. It would have been ambiguous if the Bruce clone thing even worked, and if it did, it would have still been a question if the genes made the clone a super hero or if the guy just naturally gravitated towards heroics.
There's a message in that. Nurture vs Nature vs Birthright and such. In that case, the episode would have been interesting as Terry would both be the son of Bruce, but it might not have mattered.
Not sure if that would have worked, but yea, I think the main issue is how unclear the clone tech was. If I'm remembering the episode right, Terry mentions what Joker did, suggesting the project used the same thing as the chip that was put in Drake's neck. Of course, one would think the tech used on Terry's dad was more advanced, since it's sometime before Terry's conception, and obviously some years after Joker's death and the whole fiasco with Robin. Or hell, go for something vague like "your father now had a 50/50 chance of producing a kid who was biologically Bruce's" and that way, you keep things in the air if Terry is Bruce's or not. I know there's still the hair thing, but this shit is already defying logic in the first place, and not even the most ridiculous thing seen in the DCAU in terms of playing with DNA like its fricking Legos
This is one of those decisions so stupid and pointless I ignore it completely.
I wasn't even angered by it, I just refuse to entertain its existence.
>We destroyed a man’s balls so he can only squirt out Bruce juice.
Also I know she says “he thought he was just getting a vaccination.” Does that mean you gave it others with simular psychological profiles as Thomas Wayne? How many people are shooting out little Bruces??
I didn't mind the reveal too much, but I won't deny that it could have been played out in possibly better ways. Like the injection wasn't 100% certain, and that there's still a chance for Terry to be Warren's kid, and then keeping the ending more or less the same with Terry deciding he doesn't care since Warren was the man who raised him, and he choose to become Batman of his own volition and not because of a possible "birthright"
It was definitely a strange move, feeling like Bruce Timm had been playing the MGS games and thought "Oh cool, I want one of my characters to be a clone/son of someone" and just didn't think out the existential stuff nearly as much. And while the stuff with Ace was pretty endearing, it does feel like two episodes that got mashed together and used for a finale that barely has anything to do with the show it finaled for
This was their desperate ploy to legitimize Beyond as a valid AU future for Batman in all media but all it did was prove that the series was extremely expensive fan fiction. Give Timm enough rope and he will eventually hang himself with it.
I thought it was interesting how Morrison made Beyond a possible future in the main DCU, but pushed it forward a generation where Damian is the grumpy old man in the chair teaching Terry
Why did no one stop him? Why did they let him do this?
Because DC always insists that only Bruce Wayne is allowed to be Batman, so retconning the no-name street punk that is Terry into a Bruce clone is how the DCAU compromised.
I remember a headcanon somebody posted on Cinemaphile ages ago that pitched Terry as Bruce's grandson, and his mom was Bruce's estranged daughter that hid her family roots from her kids, to try and keep the family connection but make it not moronic. I should try and find it.
It's like OMD, you're better off not acknowledging it because it's colossally moronic.
>This man now shoots another man's cum out of his dick
What am I supposed to do with this information?
You can debate if it's gay or not?
I mean, usually coming into contact with another man's sperm is pretty gay, but does it count if your body is making that man's cum for you?
I feel like it's actually some sort of cucking.
I just love that the plan was to have some random dude knock up his wife with Bruce Wayne nut then have he and his wife be brutally murdered in front of the kids by a woman dressed as a ghost so they would them become Batmen sometime in the future. Yes there was more than one kid so it was always Batmen plural. Its so stupid it boggles the mind.
the plan never accounted for Matt, Terry would've been orphaned as a kid before he was born. But the DNA injection was apparently permanent which is why Matt also is a Wayne.
Not to mention that not all kids would be rich enough to afford Batman-training.
Batman Beyond was a great show but I hated it as an ending to Bruce. JLU was best ending. Bruce becoming a more open, less traumatized person due to finding a family and community in the Justice League should be the default. Tower of Babel has done irreparable harm to the character.
>Tower of Babel has done irreparable harm to the character.
This, but Bruce Timm instead.
I've been seeing alot of criticism regarding the DCAU over the years and its made me curious as to how comic fans reacted to changes the shows made.
The further we get from when they aired, the more the comics diverge from them so I'm not surprised. Instead of seeing it as a distillation of the characters, they only see the weird choices it made.
I honest to God think the DCAU’s adaptation of Green Lantern did more harm than good by presenting them as jobbers who shoot green lasers and make generic constructs. Imagine being a fan of Hawkman and watching him getting cucked.
The silver age weakness being the fricking color yellow was already enough to make their rep in the gutter. The only time GL was ever truly "in" was Johns run. Otherwise they're thought of so low by most people the scrapped Jack Black script has him make a green Superman to save the day because they figured GL was lame compared to Superman in his own movie.
But see this is where the show didn’t do them any justice. They didn’t present them in a cool matter. John never did anything impressive.
You say this, every comic nerd says this here, but in real life I knew plenty of people who liked John Stewart in the show. People here just call him boring(because they wanted Hal instead) but its the only place I see this opinion.
Anon, people only remember him because he was black. Ask them what is best moment and they’ll say anything involving Flash.
I'd say Hawkgirl more than Flash. And again, I know who I talked to in real life, not biased comic dorks.
We wouldn't because the show was pretty bad at working the mythos angles for most of those characters. Cheetah's most memorable moment is with Batman. Do Grodd and Flash have any memorable interactions? You wouldn't know Martian Manhunter or Hawkgirl have any mythos or villains outside of Mars/Thanagar.
Letting Batgays write other characters was kinda of a big ass mistake looking back on it.
Cheetah is lame. The other stuff they did with Wondy was good and she genuinely benefitted for the lesser parts of her mythos being dropped and them focusing on her relationships with the Amazons and the JL team members.
With Hal you get head butting with the Guardians, friendly rivalry with Guy, beef with Sinestro, and romance with Star Sapphire. We missed out.
Green Lanterns have always been jobbers. If anything John Stewart was too competent to be a good portrayal of a GL.
It definitely ruined the Hawk's relationship in the eyes of the general audience.
Hawkman was always a mess of a character
True, but the show didn't help.
Thanagarians had pretty good lore, a good storyarc, and they did a good job making Hawkgirl's character relevant to the stories and themes and her mace gave her a definite niche in team ups like the JL. DC being unable to capitalize on that and build off it is not the DCAU's fault.
It’s DC’s fault the DCAU made Hawkman into a creepy stalker and cuck?
That was a delusional Hawk fanboy and judging from your posts, it was an accurate portrayal.
That's like saying NuTrek or troonyWars destroys DS9 and ROTJ.
It IS shit, but choose your words carefully and refrain from dogshittisms.
Such a creepy turn of events. Waller should of been shot and hung decades ago.
I tried to explain the "fake vaccine that makes your balls produce Batman's cum" plotline to people and they would not believe it was real