I watched a few minutes of Batman vs Superman once because it was on tv and Batman was gunning people down in a desert or some shit, I was baffled at what I was seeing.
He didnt. He was shooting Parademons and darkseid human troops in the desert in a dream like sequence.
The one who was killing insurgents in Afghanistan was Superman, at the beginning of the movie.
I get such nostalgia for the shiny blue cape, shame none of the movies have ever had the balls to do the OG color scheme. Thankfully the Arkham games let me larp as Adam West
>They need to bring fun Batman back, grimdark Batman is getting boring.
This... kind of.
There is a huge middle ground people ignore.
The 70s and 80s had a good middle ground of mixing adventure and comic craziness with Batman's darker nourish roots.
My dad met him decades ago when he was a child, took a picture with him, spoke a little. Adam took my dad in his arms and placed him the the Batmobile's driver seat.
You're just going to get Joss Whedon tier dialogue and "jokes" for him not sure why you would want something worse. I'd rather they give tim Burton Batman again
What detective shit?
Reeves Batman was a moron that needed riddles explained to him. Not to mention neither him nor black Gordon ever studies where the pictures were taken.
True but it wouldnt have magically become not boring and a good film if Batman had a gun.
It's dull because we've had 20 years of capeshit and people are starting to get tired of it.
One kills criminals, the others innocent citizens. What kind of moronic argument are you making? Literally could only apply to red hood and maybe Dent in some incarnations. And btw it would be fine with them too.
Why would he? He is batman. He is supposed to have plot armor. The same way the Hulk doesnt hurt civilians when toppling buildings because he calculates complex scenarios instantly (plot armor).
Plus, if we go for realistic shit the regular batmobile chases would endanger and kill more civilians.
>He just won't lol
OK. Now what if the drug dealer he just whacked wasn't a drug dealer at all, but just in the company of a drug dealer? What criteria does Batman use to decide who lives and who dies? Why would the Justice League let a mass murderer onto their team? It's just not particularly heroic, it's just edgy for the sake of being edgy and I can see it done better in The Punisher anyway. Also you're wrong about the Hulk, in Peter David's run it was made clear that he had accidentally killed as many people as a major natural disaster, in contract to the times he has saved the world. This is why Hulk often has the military sent after him and why other heroes banished him to another planet. Also I'm getting bored teaching comic lore to you so try to come up with an entertaining reply or we're done
It simple. If he is a menace to the lives of other people, gets killed.
Batman is Batman, he has plot armor, and he knows if there is foul game. If the Hulk can do advanced physics to calculate the survival of every citizen, then Batman can figure if its a drug dealer or someone in company of a drug dealer.
Plus, why would he kill a drug dealer? Thats some shit the system can actually take in.
Stop being dense, it doesnt make sense. The Joker is not an average drug dealer.
And your Peter David shit was retconned long ago.
3 months ago
Anonymous
So really you just want to know why he doesn't kill the Joker. A better question is, why does he keep imprisoning the Joker in Arkham when he has the resources of the Justice League available? They could put dude in a pocket dimension from which he could never escape if they wanted. The answer is, Joker has to live so they can keep selling Batman comics >Peter David retcon
Nothing Marvel Comics published after 2012 ever happened and that is not up for debate
His fighting style is almost entirely strikes. There are martial arts like aikido or judo that can incapacitate without deadly strikes, instead Batman smashes his fists and boots into people's faces and slams them to the ground, all it takes is a bone fragment or debris on the ground to cut an artery or cause an embolism. He shouldn't intentionally kill/murder, but it is so fricking stupid to act like Batman isn't inherently deadly
>Batman must be realistic and adhere to physsics all the times. >No not all the others outlandish batman elements that has no basis in reality. Only this specific one.
Just deal with superheroes with no kill rule already
Comic Batman should kill.
Movie Batman should not.
While the reverse happens right now, the most logical in terms of worldbuilding would be for comic Batman to kill his ever recurring urban villains and supernatural alien armies.
While the more grounded Movie Batman, that never had major recurring villains, should never kill, in order to appease his collaborator Commissioner Gordon (along with his own ethical reasons).
Don't be dumb. Batman movies are genre movies, aka action movies with capeshit trappings. Action movies demand that the villains end up conveniently dead or killed by the hero so that the audience can feel catharsis. It's what closes the third act in a satisfying manner for most audiences.
This is why C. Nolan found contrived ways for the bad guys to always die by the end of it.
>The no kill rule is dumb.
Then dont' make a Batman movie.
Also wanna talk about all the other moronic thing the character need to be stripped off before even getting to the no kill rull (which sets him apart from many many many other characters)
This pretty much. 3 things appeared at the same time (animated series, Arkham games, Nolan Batman) that propped up the no kill rule as core to the character. Heralded mainly by various zoomers and millennials who grew up with these products, me being of them. Tim Burton’s Batman killed and nobody gives a shit. Snyder is trying to come up with arbitrary reasons to appease hardcore batgays when the simple truth and reason is that holding live action Batman to the no kill rule is incredibly difficult and borderline ridiculous. Nolan’s Batman and Reaves Batman still killed despite saying otherwise. It’s just a really really moronic line to draw.
Burton, Nolan an Reeves didn't make a spectacle of Batman murdering people, after ramping up the murder to 11 and the other moral qualities to zero.
That's why. The difference between rule and exception and the importance on context in not hard to understand. Well maybe it is for you autistic cultists
The entire spectacle of Reeves The Batman, which is the scene that the marketing based all the trailers on, is the one where the Batman and Penguins creates tons of destruction and fiery death on a highway. That's the money shot the director and marketing team based all the marketing of the movie on.
>Burton, Nolan an Reeves didn't make a spectacle of Batman murdering people
Except they did lmao. Just say Batfleck killing didn’t make you comfortable instead of trying to fit arbitrary bs as objective criticism. Nobody actually gives a shit about the no kill rule except morons.
Except they didn't. You have no argument, only excuses and allucinations. If they were the same, they would be treated the same. But they aren't, and here we are with snydershit universally rejected
>Burton, Nolan an Reeves didn't make a spectacle of Batman murdering people
Except they did lmao. Just say Batfleck killing didn’t make you comfortable instead of trying to fit arbitrary bs as objective criticism. Nobody actually gives a shit about the no kill rule except morons.
So what? Ridley Scott says a buncha moronic shit about Alien & Blade Runner. David Chase is up his own ass answering fan questions about the Sopranos. Snyder’s cut of Justice League still blows anything else dc has done out of the water
>Snyder’s cut of Justice League still blows anything else dc has done out of the water
Lmao, it's unwatchable dogshit just like army of the dead and rebel moon
>Batman's parents get murdered in cold blood in front of him. >Decides to break the cycle of murder in Gotham >Why doesn't he kill like all the other guys?
Go watch John Wick homosexual
>Decides to break the cycle of murder in Gotham
And he does that by throwing the Joker in a facility that cant contain him for more than 3 days >OOPS NOT MY FAULT ANYMORE, I JUST CATCHED HIM WHAT ELSE WANT ME TO DO? OH YES, IM THE ONLY ONE WITH THE TOOLS AND SKILLS TO CATCH HIM, WHY DO YOU ASK? WE WILL CONTINUE THIS TALK IN 5 DAYS WHEN I BRING THE JOKER BACK AGAIN
In the past, Batman villains didn't actually murder anyone.
When the writers decided they needed to continually up the stakes by making the villains murder more and more people, they broke away from the original concept.
That's the legal system of Gotham's fault for judging Joker criminally insane every time instead of just putting him in ADX florence. I doubt batman would be opposed to Joker being executed by lethal injection.
There is a graphic novel called Joker: Devil's Advocate where the Joker is sentenced to death for a murder he actually did not commit, and Batman prevents him from being executed.
Well obviously if it's a crime he didn't commit then he'd stop them, just like how he'd stop the police from summarily executing the deadbeat criminals he beats up every day without trial. You can argue over whether it's worse to break all a man's limbs and leave him with exorbitant medical fees rather than just killing him.
Bob Kane is a hack. Bill Finger basically created Batman. DC editor at time Whitney Ellisworth put a code of conduct for all DC heroes. He did this after angry parents wrote him. This was when comics were read, gasp, by little kids. So all DC heroes could’ve kill. Finger did not like this because he felt it made Batman ineffective crime fighter. And he was right. He modeled Batman lot after Dick Tracy where Tracy would dispose of villains. Flattop was just as popular as The Joker and Tracy killed him
I don't know what that anon thinks he's talking about, but by the early 40s it became apparent that having Batman's recurring villains be murderers made Batman look useless as a crimefighter. So, they wrote an issue where Joker was sentenced to death, but survived his execution, and then after that, Batman's recurring villains stopped killing people for twenty years until they made Joker a killer again in the 60s.
>Batman should kill,
No he doesn't. Same with superman and wonder woman.
Why the few hereos who work under a different premise must be conformed to the rest?
God forbid we have some variety
Batman killing in BvS wasn't a plot point, it wasn't addressed, it wasn't pivotal to his character, there was no character arc, and there was no come to Jesus moment. You can say him not killing Superman was his come to Jesus moment, but then 2 minutes later he brutally murders a warehouse full of people. It's never setup that he kills, it's never explained, acknowledged, discussed, nothing. That's why Snyder is a hack
I guess you fell asleep during pic related. You must be use to Nolan holding audience hand for everything. Affleck Batman clearly older and bitter. Pretty much put together after Joker killed Robin he realizes throwing villains until
jail just for them escape again didn’t do shit. Affleck in BvS is angriest Batman put on screen
>Literal who costume >"haha, jokes on you" >fricking morons like you "SEE 14 LETTERS EXPLAIN AWAY EVERY PLOT HOLE PEOPLE HAVE AND IF YOU DIDNT GET IT YOURE STUPID SAAR"
No, you are fricking moronic and I'd smack the frick out of you in real life, beat up your pussy father and this would get your prostitute mother so wet she'd leave you dead beat losers for me and then I'd toss that bawd to the curb after I nutted in her nasty ass.
>asked the fans if they should kill Robin >the answer was "about fricking time do it homosexuals" >they kill him off in memorable fashion >it's a big deal and gains traction even outside the comics industry >they eventually invalidate the entire storyline and bring him back with a magic asspull
Just once I'd like to see a comic not pull this shit.
>Literal who costume >The R for "Robin" is clearly visible on the left side of the chest >Even people who don't actually read the comics known the meme about joker beating one of the robins to death with a crowbar
>Even people who don't actually read the comics known the meme about joker beating one of the robins to death with a crowbar
no they fricking dont you moron
A frame with no context that is not talked about doesn't count as arc, pivotal moemnt, or explanation. >Affleck in BvS is angriest Batman put on
screen
Yeah, the most comically bad and out of character one.
Nad "he was angry" doesn't count as motivation
>damaged Robin suit >joker spray painted "HAHAHA" on it with "jokes on you" >on a Robin suit, a damaged Robin suit >no Robin present at all
If you can't figure this out you might actually be a moron.
They were shit movies but that doesn't excuse your dipshit brain.
Why would Batman leave the Hahaha painted on the suit? Wouldn't it be better to honor Robin with a whole one?
Ah, but it's not about honoring someone, it's about torturing himself for allowing this to happen. Peak individualism.
A frame with no context that is not talked about doesn't count as arc, pivotal moemnt, or explanation. >Affleck in BvS is angriest Batman put on
screen
Yeah, the most comically bad and out of character one.
Nad "he was angry" doesn't count as motivation
You're right, everything should be either marveshit or snydershit, never a good well made movie.
Also rememeber that marvelshit mogged snydershit hard, snydergay
Zack Snyder is a dudebro moron that can't comprehend the fact that a Batman that doesn't kill challenges writers to make a halfway intelligent plot. A Batman that can kill just becomes some shitty action flick with some guy in a batsuit.
Batman finally killing after years of futility and self-doubt is one thing. That is essentially what happens in TDKR, which snyder adores so much that it's his only frame of reference for the character.
Snyder then stupidly thinks to completely skip all of that character development and go right to Batman dual-wielding machine guns and doing mass shootings at the Iceberg Lounge. He thinks Batman should only kill, he doesn't understand the fear aspect, the theatricality, the restraint or inner turmoil of Wayne worrying that'll become just another murderer himself, etc. From his point of view, young Bruce should be killing from day one, and at that point what is the reason to even have the costume to scare people, why not just assassinate people in their beds like a spook.
>Batman finally killing after years of futility and self-doubt is one thing. That is essentially what happens in TDKR, which snyder adores so much that it's his only frame of reference for the character.
You literally described BvS. Fricking moron.
Batman did kill until was censored. All this “he doesn’t want to be just like the villains” nothing but fanboy cope. Not what Bill Finger wanted. We might’ve actually gotten more creativity instead recycling same villains over and over.
>Batman finally killing after years of futility and self-doubt is one thing. That is essentially what happens in TDKR, which snyder adores so much that it's his only frame of reference for the character.
You literally described BvS. Fricking moron.
Implied character developement isn't character development. An nobody wants to see "X character but shit now"
Batman did kill until was censored. All this “he doesn’t want to be just like the villains” nothing but fanboy cope. Not what Bill Finger wanted. We might’ve actually gotten more creativity instead recycling same villains over and over.
The character that became iconic and famous is the batman who doens't kill, not the prototype. Deal with it
luckily its not implied at all and we literally see him start and stop killing within BvS and exactly what motivates him to do so, you're just a massive moron
In BvS you get the feeling he's been killing for quite a while. He doesn't even flinch while blowing up those dudes with the machine guns in his car or during the warehouse scene.
>Men are still good. We fight. We kill. We betray one another. But we can rebuild. We can do better. We will. We have to.
literally what he says at clark kent's funeral
if anything snyder at least tried to make it better
chris terrio said in an interview that the original script by goyer was a super edgy story in which batman became a murderer because of robin's death, never feeling sorry about it throughout the film and surprisingly wb executives were ok with that
the whole redemption arc was added in by terrio and snyder
>literally what he says at clark kent's funeral >if anything snyder at least tried to make it better
Telling and not showing. What is shown says the opposite. >chris terrio said in an interview that the original script by goyer was a super edgy story in which batman became a murderer because of robin's death, never feeling sorry about it throughout the film and surprisingly wb executives were ok with that >the whole redemption arc was added in by terrio and snyder
Only what the movies communcate matters, and the movie doesn't communicate any of that. Keep in check your pareidolia, external infos and headcanon
You can accuse Zack Snyder of a lot of things, but not that he is a "tell, not show" kind of director. Snyder is all about putting intrinsic details and telling a story visually.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Reminder that BvS inspired this manga/anime depiction of the characters.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Forgot the pic.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>appeal to tranime.
all I've heard aout that cartoon is that unlike snydershit, it easily got "superman" right
3 months ago
Anonymous
Funny how the mangaka directly mention Snyder.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>it showsn nothing and tells nothing.
Here, i made it easier. What this image tells us about the character's journey purely through the visuals alone?
Lol I missed you two redditard and your seething posts.
So angry and so loud despite being so few
He's right. Batman comics have been completely stale and shit for decades aside from Morrison's run, in which Batman drives Joe Chill to commit suicide and shoots Darkseid.
Character was doing jst fine until him, lol. And after him it needs to rebuild his reputation, while snyder is confined to netflix where h can't touch existing IPs anymore
>Batman doesnt kill
I dont get why people choose this hill to die on. Keaton Batman killed, Christian Bale Batman killed (despite him saying he doesnt).
I get what Snyder was doing. He was trying to rip off The Dark Knight Returns. Thats been obvious. I liked the idea he didnt want to just continue on from the Nolan movies with a different actor. He made his own version. An aged Batman disillusioned after 20 years of the job and no improvement. The problem is Snyder doesnt execute it well enough.
that said this scene is great. you could tell Snyder just wanted to make a Batman film
Dark Knight Returns Batman specifically says he still can't cross the line of killing, though. He has a chance to kill the Mutant Leader and doesn't. The only time he debatably kills someone is when a guy literally had a gun to a baby's head.
I wonder if Snyder just flipped through a copy of DKR, stopped on that page, thought it was cool, and then built his entire career on that.
The thing that is making batman irrelevant is the same thing thats making Daredevil irrelevant, or the punisher or any other "grounded" superhero, its being forced into a shared universe and having to be connected to other more outlandish characters. Its kind of hard to have the audience give a shit about some muggers getting beaten up in an alleyway when the movies before and after centered around superhuman gods throwing buildings at each other to determine the fate of the entire universe.
The Justice League cartoon did a pretty good job of integrating Batman...have him be the scary interrogation guy, or the guy doing support from the sidelines for big fighters. Hell, Darkseid even monlogues about respecting Batman because he is in thick of things without any actual powers.
Probably. They won't even take the risk of doing a goddamn Batman Beyond film despite people wanting it. WB is moronic. They'll take more risk with Joker than Batman.
>Just make a movie where every single character is completely murderous, genocidal and out of character
We already had snydershit and that's exaclty why we are in current state
That and insisting to use post fleashpoint anything
Superheroes never killing no matter the circumstances is moronic but they shouldn't become murder hobos
Superman killing Doomsday is fine
ult Spider-man killing the Green goblin is fine
but having Batman kill random thugs that pose no threat to him is moronic
Let's be real: in every fricking movie Batman kills some goons. Even in comics and animated series batman throws people off buildings, makes things explode... goons die every day in gotham
>goons
Yeah, but in snyder's movies Batman is presented at the end of it's career, fully disillusioned about the inutility of 20 years of vigilante work. It's superman that makes him find the right way again.
In my opinion it's kino, and makes batman actually more human
>movie about X, except X is nothing like X and it's actually shit.
lol ok. Can't wait for a movie about Sherlock Holmes where he can't dectect anymore because he's too angry and uses chemistry to build bombs ci he can kill Watson. >In my opinion it's kino, and makes batman actually more human
In in everyone else opinion it's shit and has the literal opposite effect.
Is there a Batman story where he maims villains he captures so they are less of a threat when the inevitably escape to try to kill more people?
Like taking out Jokers ankles, a thumb or two would make things easier for Batman to recapture.
Reminder that the only reason he doesn't is they wanted to distance him from "The Shadow" who was still a popular character at the time.
They were afraid he was too much like a rip-off of that.
Reminder that the version of batman that became famous and endured for decades is the one with the no kill rule.
Not the prototype
Reminder that the only reason he doesn't is they wanted to distance him from "The Shadow" who was still a popular character at the time.
They were afraid he was too much like a rip-off of that.
I wish Hollywood would focus more on the fun yet dark 70s and 80s Batman.
Realism overrated. Nolan's films weren't actually realistic anyway. You can make any fantasy seem realistic. It's movies and film making.
Because Batman lives in a fantasy world with a status quo kill the Villains means not more sales thats why Batman cant kill the Joker since he sells comics
I think the whole point is that the good guys are supposed to put people on trial in a court, not murder them on the street. Zac might have a large nose.
Change "kill" to "rape" and I think we are looking at an interesting movie concept >criminals literally shaking in fear because he could be anywhere...
I never understood how Snyder said the Batmans in other movies did the same thing, Batman in BVS literally blows up cars with missiles and machine guns
He's right and based. "if you le kill your le enemies they le win" söyman is old and boring and what we need is a hardcore Chadman mowing down criminals with the bat machine gun
How does a person who has done batman movies not understand Batman and his mental illness when it literally slaps you in the face if you've read any sort of batman comics ever? What a fricking moron.
Batman's kind of dumb in that respect. He only had a no kill rule to keep comics churning out and only later works tried to work it into his character. I think it's inspirational to have a hero that aspires to save everyone, but Batman in particular takes it to such asinine degrees.
The film explores Batman’s damaged psychology by taking the character below to his darkest place so he can finally confront his untreated childhood trauma to begin healing from it.
In Homeric fashion, the introductory scene establishes key themes crucial to the story.
As a child, Bruce Wayne’s parents, Thomas and Martha Wayne, are murdered in front of him: and he is powerless to stop it.
At his parents’ funeral, Bruce runs away from the pain and his surrogate father, Alfred, and falls. To emphasize the motif, everything in this scene falls: leaves fall, snow falls, sparks fall, bullet shells fall, Thomas falls, pearls fall, Martha falls and finally Bruce falls.
When Bruce falls, the camera turns upside down, showing that Bruce is not seeing things the “right way” any longer.
Bruce’s decent concludes as he falls into a dark cave where he finds the Batman persona.
As an adult, Bruce looks back and comments on his own self-deception. Batman’s mask has been a false salvation (“a beautiful lie”) - the alter-ego has become an addiction and escape from reality though which he “forces the world to make sense”.
His work as Batman has given him meaning and purpose. Bruce grew up feeling powerless and fought to suppress his pain by gaining power – corporate power, physical power and the power to terrorize criminals.
Bruce thought he was going to change his exterior world by stopping criminals, but after twenty years he sees little fruit to the labor of this Sisyphean task and feels his actions don’t have a lasting impact.
Bruce has retreated to the cave and the penthouse rather than residing in Wayne Manor itself. The current state of the mansion is symbolic of Batman’s psyche and situation: an empty husk of the home it used to be.
Bruce has lost touch with his original vision for Batman, due to his inability to handle his real and perceived failures.
In his loss of himself, Batman no longer sees the humanity in criminals and has begun branding them like animals (this harkens back to The Mark of Zorro, a character who inspired Batman for Bruce and also left his mark at the scene).
As Alfred directly interpolates, “powerlessness” is the key to understand Bruce’s psychology.
When Bruce saw Superman and Zod fighting in Metropolis, he relived his childhood feelings of powerlessness and projected onto Superman the role of the ultimate criminal. The same memories were revisited and magnified when he witnessed the battle in Metropolis, and his powerlessness was evident as he stayed on the phone with a friend in the collapsing building, was only able to save an already-amputated employee, and hugged a little girl who just lost her mother (who was now an orphan).
Again he was powerless to do anything, and again “[he] let his family die.” Bruce convinces himself he will show Batman’s worth and honor his father’s legacy through the bravery of killing Superman.
Bruce doesn’t deny Alfred’s argument, but rationalizes his crusade saying “we’ve seen what promises are worth. [Even if he’s good today] how many have stayed that way? Even if there is even a one percent chance, we have to take it as an absolute certainty.”
It’s important to distinguish that this “one percent” doctrine is not Bruce’s real motivation; it’s just part of his rationalization to himself. He further cherry-picks a point in the Wayne history that frames him as a hunter, characterizing his dehumanization of Superman as mere prey and creates a narrative that Superman is an all-powerful animal, which if left unchecked, “could wipe out the entire human race”.
Bruce also compares Superman to his greatest criminal enemy as a “freak dressed like [a] clown”, the same clown who killed his adopted son. Batman feels “the world only makes sense if you force it to”; acknowledging at some level that he has a skewed perspective and that he imposes his interpretations on reality, rather than taking reality as it is.
He tells Superman “I understand”, conveying that he has all the information he is willing to accept. He tells Superman “you were never a god”, (failure to live up to Bruce’s idea of God) and “you were never even a man” (Superman has no humanity).
When Batman later defeats Superman in their fight, he isn’t lecturing about the “one-percent” doctrine, he wants to impress upon Superman how naïve he was to cling to hope.
Until this point, he’s refused to engage in conversation, so these words mean everything Batman wants to communicate to Superman before he dies. “I bet your parents taught you that you mean something; that you're here for a reason. My parents taught me a different lesson, dying in a gutter for no reason at all. They taught me that the world only makes sense if you force it to.”
The “parents” Batman references are conceptual; he has reduced them to mere props in the formation of his worldview and patterns of thinking. He subconsciously knows he has tarnished their legacy: conveyed through a monstrous Bat erupting from their crypt in his nightmares, also prophesying that if he spills (Superman’s) blood, this is what he will become.
The titular fight for Bruce parallels his initial fall: into the cave and into darkness. The progression of the fight represents Bruce descending deeper and deeper into the Madness: on the rooftop he destroys the Bat Signal, then the fight continues to descend below to the lowest point in the building, where Bruce will have to make a choice. Snyder deliberately has Batman's mask broken in half to symbolize the choice between his humanity and the monster that Batman is on the precipice of becoming.
One of the main difficulties audiences had in understanding was the resolution of Batman and Superman’s fight. A typical revenge tragedy takes a character all the way to where they will carry out the vengeance: if they do, they are actually harming themselves. This moment is called anagnorisis: a recognition or moment of clarity when a character gains understanding of either their or another’s true identity or discovers the true nature of their own situation.
The final fight is so fricking cool. Specially the fact that everything that happens mirrors exactly the prologue showing Batman as a young kid. His parents death, him running from their funeral, his fall inside the cave, everything.
It is basically Batman dragging Superman inside his own nightmare/trauma.
One of the main difficulties audiences had in understanding was the resolution of Batman and Superman’s fight. A typical revenge tragedy takes a character all the way to where they will carry out the vengeance: if they do, they are actually harming themselves. This moment is called anagnorisis: a recognition or moment of clarity when a character gains understanding of either their or another’s true identity or discovers the true nature of their own situation.
Why do people have a problem with the no killing rule? Yes it's flawed but that's what makes Batman interesting, you have to remember that he is a schizo that dresses as a bat to punch thugs. If he could kill anyone then there would be no conflict
In the moment Batman is going to strike Superman, cognitively, there is no way he expects to hear the name of his mother. Superman says “you're letting him kill Martha”, appealing to both Batman’s past heroism and current guilt complex. This caused Batman to pause and process: the fact that he’s standing over someone about to kill them (the character did live long enough to see himself become the villain), that Superman is bleeding (so he does bleed and is not too powerful to exist), realizing that he would be responsible for making Superman an orphan - all of these realizations domino in this moment as he realizes he misjudged Superman.
Bruce is also having a PTSD flashback, reliving the trauma he has suppressed and run from. Bruce is remembering a time before he cast the spell on himself; realizing that while his “force” let him take command of his life, it did not honor his parents or free him from being “fallen”.
He starts to see his own father in Superman, but when Lois arrives and clarifies “it’s his mother’s name”, Bruce not only sees his father in Superman, he sees himself.
It was Lois, not the word (as many have shallowly misinterpreted), who stopped Batman. As Alfred hoped "some woman from Metropolis [would] make him honest", and as it turns out: Lois was "the key" for Clark and Bruce.
Bruce can no longer deny Superman’s humanity or assert that his crusade was for mankind.
His facade falls apart and he can no longer maintain the lie that he has told since childhood. For the first time in a long time Bruce truly empathizes with someone else, finally snapping out of his vengeful tunnel vision.
Furthermore, Bruce had stopped trusting; the partnership with Robin was over, he lies to Alfred and he doesn’t even trust himself.
Yet even under his boot, Superman still saw in him someone who saves, someone who could protect his mother and chooses to trust - calling out the best in Batman.
Bruce is shown grace and forgiven by the man he was about to kill, and more than that, Superman trusts him with saving his mother. Bruce recognizes Superman is needed elsewhere and affirms Superman’s trust: making him a promise (something he previously said were useless), “They need you at the ship. I’ll make you a promise, Martha won’t die tonight”. Bruce has been on the wrong path, but his experiences were not a waste: only because of his years of training can he save Martha in the warehouse. He has been given a chance to show that his skills and work as Batman do have value, and in saving Martha Kent he is able to free himself of the demons that have haunted and driven him since childhood. Bruce had disconnected from and taken Alfred for granted, but after his encounter with Superman, he admits his fault and tells his surrogate Father “I don’t deserve you.” Bruce begins to trust in the value of promises again.
After Superman’s sacrificial death, Batman is visually shown stepping out into the light, signifying his redemption. Batman walks through the smoke, and there is fire in the background behind him, symbolizing his return to the world from the hell he shut himself in. Bruce has been cynical about humanity since the death of his parents, but he now has a renewed hope, standing in the true light (in the sun as Jor-El prophesied) and later affirming at Clark’s funeral that “men are still good”.
The guilt Bruce felt in not being able to help his parents as a child, is now feels for Superman. Bruce realizes that Superman’s death may have been preventable, had he began healing sooner: “I failed him in life; I won’t fail him in death.” Bruce will honor Superman’s memory: by rising to higher standards and by “rebuild[ing and] do[ing] better”.
>OUR BATMAN KILLS AND IT MAKES TOTAL SENSE
Ok so why is the Joker alive? >W-what?
Why is the Joker alive? If this Batman kills, why is the Joker alive? >WELL, YOU SEE, ERRRRRRRRRRR *insane ramblings and schizo theories*
It's fricked, all of it.
If Batman kills, Joker has to be dead, or none of it makes sense.
Snyder is a hack.
UUHHH IT'S RIGHT THERE IN THE MOVIE HE SAYS >I'll fricking (WHOAH THIS IS FOR ADULTS!!!) kill you... >...but not yet
maybe pay attention next time I swear low IQ anti snydergays get filtered by the most basic of 4d filmmaking
>>I'll fricking (WHOAH THIS IS FOR ADULTS!!!) kill you... >>...but not yet
In Gotham, in the present day, you moron.
When you see Batman on the top of the car chasing Harley and Joker, why didn't he kill them? He spared Harley, saved her even.
>When you see Batman on the top of the car chasing Harley and Joker, why didn't he kill them? He spared Harley, saved her even.
He beat the shit out of her and was trying to kill the Joker. David Ayer even implied that in his director's cut of the movie Batman unironically rapes her on the top of the hood of his car as a hard lesson. Batman rapes Harley Quinn to teach her a lesson.
This ain't your grandpa's Batmam. This is a real hardcore motherfricking Batman who rapes and kills.
>OUR BATMAN KILLS AND IT MAKES TOTAL SENSE
Ok so why is the Joker alive? >W-what?
Why is the Joker alive? If this Batman kills, why is the Joker alive? >WELL, YOU SEE, ERRRRRRRRRRR *insane ramblings and schizo theories*
It's fricked, all of it.
If Batman kills, Joker has to be dead, or none of it makes sense.
Snyder is a hack.
that said "insane ramblings and schizo theories" because that's you right now, lol
What schizo theories? Check any interview with the director responsible for the first Suicide Squad movie. Batman set out to kill the Joker, but the Joker managed to escape.
If you're talking about the Justice League movie, that scene happens in the far future where Batman needs Joker help to reverse the future. Joker is key to them succeeding in their mission.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Check any interview with the director
No.
If it's not in the movie, it doesn't count. I don't care what nonsense is made up after the fact to cover for a bad movie. >bro it's totally deep because director said X
Don't care. It's pure cope for a bad movie.
3 months ago
Anonymous
But it is in the movie. Even in the messy theatrical cut we see Batman chasing Joker and Joker escaping. You don't have any argument. It'd be different had caught the Joker and given him to the cops, but that wasn't what happened.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>But it is in the movie
No it's not.
You're begging strangers on the internet to go look at interviews with directors because it is exactly NOT in the movie, and we have to be told, not shown.
You've chosen such a strange hill to die on.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I am just going to consider a braindead moron and ignore your ramblings.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You accept your defeat with grace. Good.
Reminder: Batman killing and the Joker living makes for a shit movie.
That admission is the first of many indications that Bruce has made a profound character change; he is now dealing with failure in a healthy way and no longer believes hope and heroism are a beautiful lie. When Batman first appears in the film, he chooses to brand someone and in Batman’s last scene, when he visits Lex in prison, he chooses not to brand. Snyder uses each character’s first and last appearance to convey something important. Furthermore, the film ends and begins with beautiful symmetry - opening with the Waynes’ death and ending with the death of Superman: two funerals that changed Bruce Wayne’s way of thinking.
After everything said, i just have to exclaim: fricking kino. We're never going to get another superhero movie like this.
Zack Snyder’s films feature complex character arcs with depth, realism and artistry rarely seen in comic book films. Compared to the typical blockbuster, Batman V Superman is a challenging work of art; exploring complex themes rather than solely driven by plot, structured as a five-act revenge tragedy rather than a conventional three-act hero’s journey and deconstructing tropes of the genre.
Like Snyder’s previous Superhero ensemble Watchmen, BvS explores the logistical problems that would naturally arise if superheroes existed in real life. The film explores the intersection between violence and politics, the nature of justice, complexity of truth and ethics, consequences of choices, power and powerlessness and the impact of parental presence and absence.
In the midst of cartoonish superhero depictions, ‘Batman V Superman’s depicted realism chafed with some of the audience, causing intentional provocation. The film depicts a realistic world: where war is real and tangible, the ruin indestructible aliens fighting in a populated city would cause, the serious cost of collateral damage and seriously depicts the scars that violence leaves on the human soul.
Instead of glorifying violence or presenting it as spectacle, the film has the audience confront it as the characters do.
Why can't characters all be different? Batman has his thing, other characters like Wolverine has theirs, they don't all need to follow the same cultural trends.
All of this discussion is irrelevant when the reality is that Zack Snyder failed to make a compelling, interesting Batman. All of this is theory talk and the same thing nerds have thrown at one another for decades. None of the discussion matters and none of it would matter if Zack had brought interesting characters to the table. He did not. He made a weird, creepy alien Superman and followed it up with a braindead conflict driven movie with Bad Superman fighting a dumb, braindead Batman with a dumb, braindead plot to drive it all together. If that weren't enough, they eventually fought a literal massive, dumb, braindead Doomsday that looked like a cave troll for the express purpose of further deifying Clark Kent into resurrections to complete his plethora of subtle religious allegories in the next installment. People cursed with above room temperature IQs thought it was all really stupid and we panned it and moved on. None of Zack's desperate ranting about how brave (he wasn't) and ingenious his takes are (they aren't) don't matter. He's pissing in the wind and filling airtime. The man, literally, cannot make a good movie to save his life. Army Of The Dead and Rebel Moon are thoroughly his own original movies (with the heathy lifted scenes, references, and allusions to much better movies not withstanding) and they're fricking trash.
>All of this discussion is irrelevant when the reality is that Zack Snyder failed to make a compelling, interesting Batman.
His Batman is one of the best beloved incarnations of the character.
LMAO. Capeshit Black folk wanting to talk about "compelling" movies.
The film uniquely takes advantage of the cinematic medium by “showing rather than telling”, weaving the themes throughout through subtle motifs and the characters’ unspoken mindsets. As this Superman is more introverted, he does not often verbally express what he is thinking, while Batman gives rationalizations that cloud his psychological state and Lex creates a façade which leaves his true intentions to be pieced together.
The fans abandoned the dceu becasue they weren't going to watch new slop as long as it was connected to snydershit.
If snydertards were more than few indians he would be still making dceu movies and not cringe moon
3 months ago
Anonymous
They aren't watching the new DC slop not connected to Snyder's stuff either.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Still connected, until they officially truncate.
Also the capeshit fad is over-ish and DC lost the train thanks to snydershit and those characters won't come back to the spotlight outside of it. Maybe for the better.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Reading lots of cope coming from you.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Cope is every single statement made by sneeder since he was banned from every single exisitng IP years ago. Don't get confused
Not that I care in the least about batslop but, and there really is not polite way of saying this; Zack Snyder is an idiot.
An actual honest to God moron.
If you took a screenshot of this post, printed it out and waved it in Zack Snyder's face hed' go "uuuuh", and maybe drool a little bit but the cretin sure as frick wouldn't be able to read it.
won't break every bone in joker's body and bind him to a hospital bed
He did in the comics after Jason died.
May Allah forgive me for saying this, but the Batman comics make more sense than Zack's version of Batman does.
MoS and BvS are both an allegory to America post-9/11. It is entwined into the whole story. It takes the immigrant’s tale already present within Superman’s story and plays it out in a modern context.
Superman represents the alien culture, the portion of it trying to assimilate to our American cultura and way of life.
Zod and the banished Kryptonians represent the fanatical element of Superman's birth-place bent on wiping us out, basically Al Qaeda.
Superman isn’t responsible for their actions, but some people hold him thus, and so does he to a degree, giving him a healthy dose of guilt over the loss of life his fellow Kryptonians wrought.
Batman represents the people of the West. You've him quoting Dick Cheney during the War on Terror.
Lex Luthor represents the elite playing both sides off each other for his own benefit, something that happened in the real world where the military complex profited from the Middle East destabilization and the war effort.
Doomsday is the resurrected Zod, brought to life by the blood and meddling of the amoral elite, basically ISIS.
The New Gods represent the Saudis, taking the Kryptonian Codex as their own to mass-produce brainwashed, subservient Kryptonian soldiers.
Reminder that “Codex” is just another word for “book.”
Continuing General Zod in Man of Steel was a character study about religious extremism.
"Codex" is, for all intents and purposes, among other things, a precursor to the printed book, essentially a bound manuscript. The word carries some pretty heavy religious connotations.
This particular book is the source of the Kryptonian genetics program. It is Zod's religion. It's all over everything he says in regards to the program, but he's not content to simply follow the "word" of the book, he wants to edit it, amend it, to decide what's worthy of bringing forward into his people's future and what "degeneracy" should be left behind. This makes him labeling Lara and Jor as heretics tellingly ironic, for not only does the call of heresy betray the religious overtones the program has for him, but also betrays him as a heretic as well.
Interestingly enough, care to guess what major world religion came into being around the same time the codex was becoming a widespread form of preserving text? Huh? Huh?
Jor has taken the program, the book, and infused it into the body of his son Kal. For Kal, this means that the "book" of his people is just a part of who he is, much in the same way that people of the West have historically been Judeo-Christian, culturally, irrespective of whether or not they've stepped one foot inside a church or a synagogue, so it's apparent from this perspective that Superman represents the more secularized Muslim, neither devout nor a fanatic, just Muslim by virtue of culture. Moreover, as an "alien" with the power to "burn it all down," he's almost undoubtedly meant to represent Islamic nuclear powers, like Pakistan is and Iran almost certainly will be one day soon.
And therein lies the message. The 9/11 imagery pretty much sells it. These films tell the story of what it will take for the West to see the East as a hero - it must stand up, define itself in unambiguous terms, and slay some of its own monsters for a change. It also tells us that the West must stop chasing vengeance and start seeking justice if it ever wants the world to see it as a hero again.
There is all this and much more. This is what comics can do when allowed to be poetic and mythic. No one has ever made a cape series like this. I doubt anyone else will even have the balls to try.
The way they treated Batman not killing in the Batman felt really forced and almost like an autistic response to BvS.
I love the Batman but I think Snyder's right. He's a brooding, dark, (unironically) damaged vigilante hunting down serial killers and psychos. His whole "I can't kill them" feels unnatural and results in moronic moments like the end of Batman Begins where he's like "putting the bad guy in a situation where he'll definitely die and can't prevent it from happening, and then choosing not to help him isn't the same as killing him AKSHULLY"
The whole thing just reminds you that you're watching children's capeshit in films that otherwise reek of kino.
I love how every Snyder thread is just a wave of shitposters seething at Snyder and accusing him of doing a bunch of stupid stuff instead of good stuff. And then some Snyder fans come in and show that all those accusations are false and that he actually very clearly did all the good stuff.
And then the shitposters seethe harder and claim that none of the fans' examples count and that it's unfair that Snyder has such a large fanbase since everyone hates him.
>Be Zack Snyder >Be relevant entirely for remakes and adaptions of capeshit >Your star wars ripoff fails >You are now completely irrelevant >Try to get attention by claiming the capeshit characters who have you relevancy are what is becoming irrelevant
What a loser.
The issue is not killing, really. It's the tone. Indiana Jones kills people but the tone of his movies is colorful adventure. Snyder means that a Batman story should be dark and depressing with a dour, downer tone as the norm, like Se7en. And not even The Batman went that far, there was some camp in there.
Batman's not a god, Zack, he's a commercial property aimed primarily at children. He's in kids' lunchboxes, ffs.
The "modern myth" thing doesn't have to be taken at face value.
>Batman doesn't kill bad guys >he just breaks their spines, smashes their skulls, throws them off of tall buildings, crashes vehicles into them at 120+ miles per hour, blows them up with bombs, etc. >they all live though
How the frick does he do it?
This is the thing that irks me in superhero movies, specially the ones that make a big issue about the hero not ever stooping so low as to kill someone.
The director wants to sell the idea that the hero will never cross that line but the director also wants to shoot cool, adrenaline pumping scenes where the hero does dangerous shit that could outright end in someone's death, or then the hero dodges an almost fatal situation that ends up hitting someone else. Thus completely negating all that moral high-ground about such a "no-kill" rule.
I watched a few minutes of Batman vs Superman once because it was on tv and Batman was gunning people down in a desert or some shit, I was baffled at what I was seeing.
>soiboi shits his pants about BatMAN being not a sissy
Regardless, the only movie inw hich he doesnt kill is B&R
I don't care about him "being a sissy", it was just moronic. I want to see Batman beating up criminals, not fighting insurgents in Afghanistan.
He didnt. He was shooting Parademons and darkseid human troops in the desert in a dream like sequence.
The one who was killing insurgents in Afghanistan was Superman, at the beginning of the movie.
Either way I wasn't into it, seemed lame. Maybe it's a good movie but I don't have much interest in watching it.
>Either way I wasn't into it, seemed lame
It is lame. You are correct!
It was lame. Your instincts are correct.
The Snyderslop batmans were even worse than the nolanslop batmans.
He wasn't even a detective
Regardless snydershit is the worse take on the character so far, an one of the reasons was "look mom, I made batman kill people!"
shits his pants about BatMAN being not a sissy
>Regardless, the only movie inw hich he doesnt kill is B&R
>My murderhobo grimdark edgy homosexual capeshit is not for kidS, it's for us fully grown badass teenagers
>also console wars
That’s a nightmare/vision bruce has
Don't care it was fricking stupid and Synder should get his head kicked in over it.
That scene was great and you're dumb.
You're a moronic homosexual and you're bad at watching movies.
And later on it's revealed it's what actually happens, so it's not "just" a nightmare vision.
Except it doesn't happen, because that movie will never exist. It's a bad alternative future.
That's just some random dream sequence that doesn't make any sense. There are plenty of other reasons to hate that scene lmao.
What even was the point of setting up injustice superman only to go absolutely nowhere with it?
>baffled about cartoon
That's bc you're a c**t.
redhood aka jason todd aka the second robin kills
that is the reason why they brought him back, they needed batman to start killing fools, but didnt want batman to actually do it
Not anymore he don't. Except sometimes. He killed one of the three Jokers.
tbf The Batman was incredibly boring and just carried by the cool suit
They need to bring fun Batman back, grimdark Batman is getting boring.
i miss him so much its unreal
bob chipman is that you?
I get such nostalgia for the shiny blue cape, shame none of the movies have ever had the balls to do the OG color scheme. Thankfully the Arkham games let me larp as Adam West
>They need to bring fun Batman back, grimdark Batman is getting boring.
This... kind of.
There is a huge middle ground people ignore.
The 70s and 80s had a good middle ground of mixing adventure and comic craziness with Batman's darker nourish roots.
My dad met him decades ago when he was a child, took a picture with him, spoke a little. Adam took my dad in his arms and placed him the the Batmobile's driver seat.
You're just going to get Joss Whedon tier dialogue and "jokes" for him not sure why you would want something worse. I'd rather they give tim Burton Batman again
they hated him because he told the truth
superhero movies are family viewing only manchild redditors wan't otherwise
The world is a much shittier place now
Cesar Romero was the best Joker, there I said it.
Its Kevin Cosner followed by Michael Keaton
This, i want Batman to use all the gadgets and fight people not some wannabe detective shit.
What detective shit?
Reeves Batman was a moron that needed riddles explained to him. Not to mention neither him nor black Gordon ever studies where the pictures were taken.
Monk was a better detective than Reeves Batman.
It was carried by Greig Fraser's cinematography if anything
True but it wouldnt have magically become not boring and a good film if Batman had a gun.
It's dull because we've had 20 years of capeshit and people are starting to get tired of it.
It only really shat the bed in the 3rd act
If Batman is out there acting like a one-man rightwing death squad a la The Punisher then he is no different from the costumed freaks that he chases
One kills criminals, the others innocent citizens. What kind of moronic argument are you making? Literally could only apply to red hood and maybe Dent in some incarnations. And btw it would be fine with them too.
What happens when he accidentally kills someone innocent?
Why would he? He is batman. He is supposed to have plot armor. The same way the Hulk doesnt hurt civilians when toppling buildings because he calculates complex scenarios instantly (plot armor).
Plus, if we go for realistic shit the regular batmobile chases would endanger and kill more civilians.
Any way you look it, you simply lose.
>He just won't lol
OK. Now what if the drug dealer he just whacked wasn't a drug dealer at all, but just in the company of a drug dealer? What criteria does Batman use to decide who lives and who dies? Why would the Justice League let a mass murderer onto their team? It's just not particularly heroic, it's just edgy for the sake of being edgy and I can see it done better in The Punisher anyway. Also you're wrong about the Hulk, in Peter David's run it was made clear that he had accidentally killed as many people as a major natural disaster, in contract to the times he has saved the world. This is why Hulk often has the military sent after him and why other heroes banished him to another planet. Also I'm getting bored teaching comic lore to you so try to come up with an entertaining reply or we're done
It simple. If he is a menace to the lives of other people, gets killed.
Batman is Batman, he has plot armor, and he knows if there is foul game. If the Hulk can do advanced physics to calculate the survival of every citizen, then Batman can figure if its a drug dealer or someone in company of a drug dealer.
Plus, why would he kill a drug dealer? Thats some shit the system can actually take in.
Stop being dense, it doesnt make sense. The Joker is not an average drug dealer.
And your Peter David shit was retconned long ago.
So really you just want to know why he doesn't kill the Joker. A better question is, why does he keep imprisoning the Joker in Arkham when he has the resources of the Justice League available? They could put dude in a pocket dimension from which he could never escape if they wanted. The answer is, Joker has to live so they can keep selling Batman comics
>Peter David retcon
Nothing Marvel Comics published after 2012 ever happened and that is not up for debate
>why would the Justice League let a mass murderer on their team?
Wonder Woman is there
And she's another compeltely out of character pos
His fighting style is almost entirely strikes. There are martial arts like aikido or judo that can incapacitate without deadly strikes, instead Batman smashes his fists and boots into people's faces and slams them to the ground, all it takes is a bone fragment or debris on the ground to cut an artery or cause an embolism. He shouldn't intentionally kill/murder, but it is so fricking stupid to act like Batman isn't inherently deadly
>just judo throw them onto concrete
>Batman must be realistic and adhere to physsics all the times.
>No not all the others outlandish batman elements that has no basis in reality. Only this specific one.
Just deal with superheroes with no kill rule already
Red Hood killed drug dealers and gangbangers. He was the hero Gotham needed AND the one it deserved.
More like no different fro ma plethora of similar punisher-like characters, but dressed like a moron
If you kill your enemies, they win, am I right?
Comic Batman should kill.
Movie Batman should not.
While the reverse happens right now, the most logical in terms of worldbuilding would be for comic Batman to kill his ever recurring urban villains and supernatural alien armies.
While the more grounded Movie Batman, that never had major recurring villains, should never kill, in order to appease his collaborator Commissioner Gordon (along with his own ethical reasons).
Don't be dumb. Batman movies are genre movies, aka action movies with capeshit trappings. Action movies demand that the villains end up conveniently dead or killed by the hero so that the audience can feel catharsis. It's what closes the third act in a satisfying manner for most audiences.
This is why C. Nolan found contrived ways for the bad guys to always die by the end of it.
>killing criminals makes you right-wing
Fricking what?
Ywnbaw
Batman's no-kill rule is the most broken rule in comics.
>posting an out of context panel where he doesn’t actually shoot anyone
You aren’t helping your case.
The no kill rule is dumb. The essence of Batman is that he's a dude in a bat suit who fights crime and does detective work. It's not fricking Hamlet.
Why does he do that?
>The no kill rule is dumb.
Then dont' make a Batman movie.
Also wanna talk about all the other moronic thing the character need to be stripped off before even getting to the no kill rull (which sets him apart from many many many other characters)
>Then dont' make a Batman movie.
Batman should kill in every movie while you cry about it.
This pretty much. 3 things appeared at the same time (animated series, Arkham games, Nolan Batman) that propped up the no kill rule as core to the character. Heralded mainly by various zoomers and millennials who grew up with these products, me being of them. Tim Burton’s Batman killed and nobody gives a shit. Snyder is trying to come up with arbitrary reasons to appease hardcore batgays when the simple truth and reason is that holding live action Batman to the no kill rule is incredibly difficult and borderline ridiculous. Nolan’s Batman and Reaves Batman still killed despite saying otherwise. It’s just a really really moronic line to draw.
Burton, Nolan an Reeves didn't make a spectacle of Batman murdering people, after ramping up the murder to 11 and the other moral qualities to zero.
That's why. The difference between rule and exception and the importance on context in not hard to understand. Well maybe it is for you autistic cultists
The entire spectacle of Reeves The Batman, which is the scene that the marketing based all the trailers on, is the one where the Batman and Penguins creates tons of destruction and fiery death on a highway. That's the money shot the director and marketing team based all the marketing of the movie on.
The Batman sucks.
Except they didn't. You have no argument, only excuses and allucinations. If they were the same, they would be treated the same. But they aren't, and here we are with snydershit universally rejected
>Burton, Nolan an Reeves didn't make a spectacle of Batman murdering people
Except they did lmao. Just say Batfleck killing didn’t make you comfortable instead of trying to fit arbitrary bs as objective criticism. Nobody actually gives a shit about the no kill rule except morons.
I rejected Batman and Christianity and decided to base my code on the Non-aggression principle.
Good goy
So what? Ridley Scott says a buncha moronic shit about Alien & Blade Runner. David Chase is up his own ass answering fan questions about the Sopranos. Snyder’s cut of Justice League still blows anything else dc has done out of the water
>Snyder’s cut of Justice League still blows anything else dc has done out of the water
Lmao, it's unwatchable dogshit just like army of the dead and rebel moon
I didn’t like either of those but you got filtered by justice league, sucks for you I guess
Yeah, I have filter for 3/10 movies made by lying hacks.
Ya it's even worse than bvs
>Batman's parents get murdered in cold blood in front of him.
>Decides to break the cycle of murder in Gotham
>Why doesn't he kill like all the other guys?
Go watch John Wick homosexual
>Decides to break the cycle of murder in Gotham
And he does that by throwing the Joker in a facility that cant contain him for more than 3 days
>OOPS NOT MY FAULT ANYMORE, I JUST CATCHED HIM WHAT ELSE WANT ME TO DO? OH YES, IM THE ONLY ONE WITH THE TOOLS AND SKILLS TO CATCH HIM, WHY DO YOU ASK? WE WILL CONTINUE THIS TALK IN 5 DAYS WHEN I BRING THE JOKER BACK AGAIN
In the past, Batman villains didn't actually murder anyone.
When the writers decided they needed to continually up the stakes by making the villains murder more and more people, they broke away from the original concept.
>In the past, Batman villains didn't actually murder anyone.
and it worked so much better than the moronation we have nowadays
That's my point.
That's for sure
That's the legal system of Gotham's fault for judging Joker criminally insane every time instead of just putting him in ADX florence. I doubt batman would be opposed to Joker being executed by lethal injection.
There is a graphic novel called Joker: Devil's Advocate where the Joker is sentenced to death for a murder he actually did not commit, and Batman prevents him from being executed.
Well obviously if it's a crime he didn't commit then he'd stop them, just like how he'd stop the police from summarily executing the deadbeat criminals he beats up every day without trial. You can argue over whether it's worse to break all a man's limbs and leave him with exorbitant medical fees rather than just killing him.
The write better containment facilities. Done
Who cares.
Batman should kill, the only reason he doesn't is because someone convinced Bob Kane to not kill the joker and have some recurrent villians
Bob Kane is a hack. Bill Finger basically created Batman. DC editor at time Whitney Ellisworth put a code of conduct for all DC heroes. He did this after angry parents wrote him. This was when comics were read, gasp, by little kids. So all DC heroes could’ve kill. Finger did not like this because he felt it made Batman ineffective crime fighter. And he was right. He modeled Batman lot after Dick Tracy where Tracy would dispose of villains. Flattop was just as popular as The Joker and Tracy killed him
I don't know what that anon thinks he's talking about, but by the early 40s it became apparent that having Batman's recurring villains be murderers made Batman look useless as a crimefighter. So, they wrote an issue where Joker was sentenced to death, but survived his execution, and then after that, Batman's recurring villains stopped killing people for twenty years until they made Joker a killer again in the 60s.
>Batman should kill,
No he doesn't. Same with superman and wonder woman.
Why the few hereos who work under a different premise must be conformed to the rest?
God forbid we have some variety
Burton's and Nolan's Batman also killed people.
You still can't see the difference between differnet things made with different context and orders of magnitude.
Batman killing in BvS wasn't a plot point, it wasn't addressed, it wasn't pivotal to his character, there was no character arc, and there was no come to Jesus moment. You can say him not killing Superman was his come to Jesus moment, but then 2 minutes later he brutally murders a warehouse full of people. It's never setup that he kills, it's never explained, acknowledged, discussed, nothing. That's why Snyder is a hack
I guess you fell asleep during pic related. You must be use to Nolan holding audience hand for everything. Affleck Batman clearly older and bitter. Pretty much put together after Joker killed Robin he realizes throwing villains until
jail just for them escape again didn’t do shit. Affleck in BvS is angriest Batman put on screen
>Literal who costume
>"haha, jokes on you"
>fricking morons like you "SEE 14 LETTERS EXPLAIN AWAY EVERY PLOT HOLE PEOPLE HAVE AND IF YOU DIDNT GET IT YOURE STUPID SAAR"
You’re moronic. Death of Robin even non comic nerds know
No, you are fricking moronic and I'd smack the frick out of you in real life, beat up your pussy father and this would get your prostitute mother so wet she'd leave you dead beat losers for me and then I'd toss that bawd to the curb after I nutted in her nasty ass.
Let’s go
Kek based moron
jesus how new are you? this is like 15 years old at this point. deep water israelites became land dwelling
You are just a weakass nerd, STFU now
A lot of words for saying "im a dumb moron who cant fight for shit"
>asked the fans if they should kill Robin
>the answer was "about fricking time do it homosexuals"
>they kill him off in memorable fashion
>it's a big deal and gains traction even outside the comics industry
>they eventually invalidate the entire storyline and bring him back with a magic asspull
Just once I'd like to see a comic not pull this shit.
>You’re moronic. Death of Robin even non comic nerds know
Not in the movie. And nobody know it outside of nerd bubbles
>Literal who costume
>The R for "Robin" is clearly visible on the left side of the chest
>Even people who don't actually read the comics known the meme about joker beating one of the robins to death with a crowbar
>Even people who don't actually read the comics known the meme about joker beating one of the robins to death with a crowbar
no they fricking dont you moron
I don't even read the dumbass comics and I knew about it.
well I don't read comics and I didn't know that
>damaged Robin suit
>joker spray painted "HAHAHA" on it with "jokes on you"
>on a Robin suit, a damaged Robin suit
>no Robin present at all
If you can't figure this out you might actually be a moron.
They were shit movies but that doesn't excuse your dipshit brain.
Why would Batman leave the Hahaha painted on the suit? Wouldn't it be better to honor Robin with a whole one?
Ah, but it's not about honoring someone, it's about torturing himself for allowing this to happen. Peak individualism.
the idea they did jason todd in the snyderverse was hidden in deleted content and barely visible shots.
A frame with no context that is not talked about doesn't count as arc, pivotal moemnt, or explanation.
>Affleck in BvS is angriest Batman put on
screen
Yeah, the most comically bad and out of character one.
Nad "he was angry" doesn't count as motivation
Movies are a visual language, moron.
you're right. he should've had batman do some meta-quips marvel style so people like you would understand it better
You're right, everything should be either marveshit or snydershit, never a good well made movie.
Also rememeber that marvelshit mogged snydershit hard, snydergay
I bet Snyder wanted Affleck to be blasting dudes down like Rambo in a Tarantino film, but the executives made him tone it down
A Snyder directed Batman movie would be absolutely kino. Snyder knows how to makes Batman cool agian.
Cringe. Tell that to DC character having to rebuild audience respect from zero after his flops
Zack Snyder is a dudebro moron that can't comprehend the fact that a Batman that doesn't kill challenges writers to make a halfway intelligent plot. A Batman that can kill just becomes some shitty action flick with some guy in a batsuit.
Batman finally killing after years of futility and self-doubt is one thing. That is essentially what happens in TDKR, which snyder adores so much that it's his only frame of reference for the character.
Snyder then stupidly thinks to completely skip all of that character development and go right to Batman dual-wielding machine guns and doing mass shootings at the Iceberg Lounge. He thinks Batman should only kill, he doesn't understand the fear aspect, the theatricality, the restraint or inner turmoil of Wayne worrying that'll become just another murderer himself, etc. From his point of view, young Bruce should be killing from day one, and at that point what is the reason to even have the costume to scare people, why not just assassinate people in their beds like a spook.
>Batman finally killing after years of futility and self-doubt is one thing. That is essentially what happens in TDKR, which snyder adores so much that it's his only frame of reference for the character.
You literally described BvS. Fricking moron.
Batman did kill until was censored. All this “he doesn’t want to be just like the villains” nothing but fanboy cope. Not what Bill Finger wanted. We might’ve actually gotten more creativity instead recycling same villains over and over.
Batman doesn't kill in TDKR
Implied character developement isn't character development. An nobody wants to see "X character but shit now"
The character that became iconic and famous is the batman who doens't kill, not the prototype. Deal with it
luckily its not implied at all and we literally see him start and stop killing within BvS and exactly what motivates him to do so, you're just a massive moron
In BvS you get the feeling he's been killing for quite a while. He doesn't even flinch while blowing up those dudes with the machine guns in his car or during the warehouse scene.
Snyder is right. DC writers are scared of challenging characters
It’s pure israelite hackery. No, don’t create anything new. Just keep reusing the same shit and you will like it. Batman no kill. Makes him bad guy.
>self-styled Christian filmmaker
>doesn't believe in the power of mercy or redemption
Snyder is a fraud and a homosexual.
That's literally Batman's arc though and one of the major themes presented
holy shit
>trying to redeem shit movies with out of context meme
Kek, snydertards
>Men are still good. We fight. We kill. We betray one another. But we can rebuild. We can do better. We will. We have to.
literally what he says at clark kent's funeral
if anything snyder at least tried to make it better
chris terrio said in an interview that the original script by goyer was a super edgy story in which batman became a murderer because of robin's death, never feeling sorry about it throughout the film and surprisingly wb executives were ok with that
the whole redemption arc was added in by terrio and snyder
>literally what he says at clark kent's funeral
>if anything snyder at least tried to make it better
Telling and not showing. What is shown says the opposite.
>chris terrio said in an interview that the original script by goyer was a super edgy story in which batman became a murderer because of robin's death, never feeling sorry about it throughout the film and surprisingly wb executives were ok with that
>the whole redemption arc was added in by terrio and snyder
Only what the movies communcate matters, and the movie doesn't communicate any of that. Keep in check your pareidolia, external infos and headcanon
You can accuse Zack Snyder of a lot of things, but not that he is a "tell, not show" kind of director. Snyder is all about putting intrinsic details and telling a story visually.
Reminder that BvS inspired this manga/anime depiction of the characters.
Forgot the pic.
>appeal to tranime.
all I've heard aout that cartoon is that unlike snydershit, it easily got "superman" right
Funny how the mangaka directly mention Snyder.
Lol I missed you two redditard and your seething posts.
So angry and so loud despite being so few
Hello sir
Snyder is right as always
He's right. Batman comics have been completely stale and shit for decades aside from Morrison's run, in which Batman drives Joe Chill to commit suicide and shoots Darkseid.
Snyder is right
Obtuse moralhomosexualry is hurting the character
Character was doing jst fine until him, lol. And after him it needs to rebuild his reputation, while snyder is confined to netflix where h can't touch existing IPs anymore
>Batman doesnt kill
I dont get why people choose this hill to die on. Keaton Batman killed, Christian Bale Batman killed (despite him saying he doesnt).
I get what Snyder was doing. He was trying to rip off The Dark Knight Returns. Thats been obvious. I liked the idea he didnt want to just continue on from the Nolan movies with a different actor. He made his own version. An aged Batman disillusioned after 20 years of the job and no improvement. The problem is Snyder doesnt execute it well enough.
that said this scene is great. you could tell Snyder just wanted to make a Batman film
Dark Knight Returns Batman specifically says he still can't cross the line of killing, though. He has a chance to kill the Mutant Leader and doesn't. The only time he debatably kills someone is when a guy literally had a gun to a baby's head.
I wonder if Snyder just flipped through a copy of DKR, stopped on that page, thought it was cool, and then built his entire career on that.
Also, DKR is an elseworld, a self-contained story aimed at an older audience, not the norm for the character.
The thing that is making batman irrelevant is the same thing thats making Daredevil irrelevant, or the punisher or any other "grounded" superhero, its being forced into a shared universe and having to be connected to other more outlandish characters. Its kind of hard to have the audience give a shit about some muggers getting beaten up in an alleyway when the movies before and after centered around superhuman gods throwing buildings at each other to determine the fate of the entire universe.
yeah I agree with everything you said. its all about the crossovers lately
The Justice League cartoon did a pretty good job of integrating Batman...have him be the scary interrogation guy, or the guy doing support from the sidelines for big fighters. Hell, Darkseid even monlogues about respecting Batman because he is in thick of things without any actual powers.
If it hasn't been clear for people before, I would have thought Rebel Moon made is perfectly clear: Snyder is an idot.
if he had a tard wrangler to control him, take away script responsibility, limit his slow motion shots etc he would improve
Or he could just go the Uwe Boll way
>have honor
>zoomers don't understand it
Ends Your Franchise
He's honestly right. Hollywood is too afraid to take risks, so they stick to the same shit. They should make a Batman Flashpoint film.
>They should make a Batman Flashpoint film.
didnt they try this and WB execs panicked leading to major rewrites
Probably. They won't even take the risk of doing a goddamn Batman Beyond film despite people wanting it. WB is moronic. They'll take more risk with Joker than Batman.
>Just make a movie where every single character is completely murderous, genocidal and out of character
We already had snydershit and that's exaclty why we are in current state
That and insisting to use post fleashpoint anything
Superheroes never killing no matter the circumstances is moronic but they shouldn't become murder hobos
Superman killing Doomsday is fine
ult Spider-man killing the Green goblin is fine
but having Batman kill random thugs that pose no threat to him is moronic
Isnt the point of batman being a super stoic man. Making him kill would be ooc unless is extremely necessary
Let's be real: in every fricking movie Batman kills some goons. Even in comics and animated series batman throws people off buildings, makes things explode... goons die every day in gotham
Yeah, but it can be small mistake in your movie, or you can be full moron and make all your spectacle around it and ramp it up to 11
>goons
Yeah, but in snyder's movies Batman is presented at the end of it's career, fully disillusioned about the inutility of 20 years of vigilante work. It's superman that makes him find the right way again.
In my opinion it's kino, and makes batman actually more human
>movie about X, except X is nothing like X and it's actually shit.
lol ok. Can't wait for a movie about Sherlock Holmes where he can't dectect anymore because he's too angry and uses chemistry to build bombs ci he can kill Watson.
>In my opinion it's kino, and makes batman actually more human
In in everyone else opinion it's shit and has the literal opposite effect.
Is there a Batman story where he maims villains he captures so they are less of a threat when the inevitably escape to try to kill more people?
Like taking out Jokers ankles, a thumb or two would make things easier for Batman to recapture.
DC is making Batman irrelevant if he can't dance
Kino
Your move, creep.
Read the comic now
Reminder that the version of batman that became famous and endured for decades is the one with the no kill rule.
Not the prototype
Reminder that the only reason he doesn't is they wanted to distance him from "The Shadow" who was still a popular character at the time.
They were afraid he was too much like a rip-off of that.
I wish Hollywood would focus more on the fun yet dark 70s and 80s Batman.
Realism overrated. Nolan's films weren't actually realistic anyway. You can make any fantasy seem realistic. It's movies and film making.
I wish they would make a pulp horror movie with Batman and some paranormal DC character.
Because Batman lives in a fantasy world with a status quo kill the Villains means not more sales thats why Batman cant kill the Joker since he sells comics
I think the whole point is that the good guys are supposed to put people on trial in a court, not murder them on the street. Zac might have a large nose.
Yeah because it was cool as frick seeing Batman not care about some dumb code
Change "kill" to "rape" and I think we are looking at an interesting movie concept
>criminals literally shaking in fear because he could be anywhere...
I never understood how Snyder said the Batmans in other movies did the same thing, Batman in BVS literally blows up cars with missiles and machine guns
Snyder doesn't understand what he reads or watches.
He just looks at the pretty pictures
He's right and based. "if you le kill your le enemies they le win" söyman is old and boring and what we need is a hardcore Chadman mowing down criminals with the bat machine gun
Then don't make batman.
good morning sirs please do the needful sign petitioners and WB make more Zaddy kino
How does a person who has done batman movies not understand Batman and his mental illness when it literally slaps you in the face if you've read any sort of batman comics ever? What a fricking moron.
The heros not being allowed to kill in Avatar is significantly more egerious than it ever was in capeshit and avatar is still going strong
Said the one that made beloved DC character unprofitable for the foreseeable future whit his shit take where they all kill.
he's right for the wrong reasons.
>can't
He can. He chooses not to.
He's right. Batman is never really challenged as a character.
>black malformed wonder woman
the state of western cartoons
Listening to his Rogan interview, it sounds like he thinks he invented director's cuts of movies.
>gives criminals CTEs and other forms of deadly ailments from a pummelling
>yeh, but I didn't shoot him
Why cant batman sometimes make an exeption and kill
Lmao, geta a load of this moron and his matemagic
Sure Zack, ask for third party audit verified numbers from Netflix to back up your claims.
If you kill a murderer the number of killers in the world remain the same, unless you kill 2 people in which case based
Batman's kind of dumb in that respect. He only had a no kill rule to keep comics churning out and only later works tried to work it into his character. I think it's inspirational to have a hero that aspires to save everyone, but Batman in particular takes it to such asinine degrees.
>I don't understand this character I'm making movies on
Zack Snyder deserved to lose his kid.
Frick him to death.
>Zack Snyder deserved to lose his kid.
Now don't shit the bed, please
Never go full Snyder
sneeder should just make the murder porn that he wants to make and all his wienersuckers would lap it up
Literally every person I have met irl who thought Batman should kill people was a genuine moron.
The film explores Batman’s damaged psychology by taking the character below to his darkest place so he can finally confront his untreated childhood trauma to begin healing from it.
In Homeric fashion, the introductory scene establishes key themes crucial to the story.
As a child, Bruce Wayne’s parents, Thomas and Martha Wayne, are murdered in front of him: and he is powerless to stop it.
At his parents’ funeral, Bruce runs away from the pain and his surrogate father, Alfred, and falls. To emphasize the motif, everything in this scene falls: leaves fall, snow falls, sparks fall, bullet shells fall, Thomas falls, pearls fall, Martha falls and finally Bruce falls.
When Bruce falls, the camera turns upside down, showing that Bruce is not seeing things the “right way” any longer.
Bruce’s decent concludes as he falls into a dark cave where he finds the Batman persona.
As an adult, Bruce looks back and comments on his own self-deception. Batman’s mask has been a false salvation (“a beautiful lie”) - the alter-ego has become an addiction and escape from reality though which he “forces the world to make sense”.
His work as Batman has given him meaning and purpose. Bruce grew up feeling powerless and fought to suppress his pain by gaining power – corporate power, physical power and the power to terrorize criminals.
Bruce thought he was going to change his exterior world by stopping criminals, but after twenty years he sees little fruit to the labor of this Sisyphean task and feels his actions don’t have a lasting impact.
Bruce has retreated to the cave and the penthouse rather than residing in Wayne Manor itself. The current state of the mansion is symbolic of Batman’s psyche and situation: an empty husk of the home it used to be.
Bruce has lost touch with his original vision for Batman, due to his inability to handle his real and perceived failures.
In his loss of himself, Batman no longer sees the humanity in criminals and has begun branding them like animals (this harkens back to The Mark of Zorro, a character who inspired Batman for Bruce and also left his mark at the scene).
As Alfred directly interpolates, “powerlessness” is the key to understand Bruce’s psychology.
When Bruce saw Superman and Zod fighting in Metropolis, he relived his childhood feelings of powerlessness and projected onto Superman the role of the ultimate criminal. The same memories were revisited and magnified when he witnessed the battle in Metropolis, and his powerlessness was evident as he stayed on the phone with a friend in the collapsing building, was only able to save an already-amputated employee, and hugged a little girl who just lost her mother (who was now an orphan).
Again he was powerless to do anything, and again “[he] let his family die.” Bruce convinces himself he will show Batman’s worth and honor his father’s legacy through the bravery of killing Superman.
Bruce doesn’t deny Alfred’s argument, but rationalizes his crusade saying “we’ve seen what promises are worth. [Even if he’s good today] how many have stayed that way? Even if there is even a one percent chance, we have to take it as an absolute certainty.”
It’s important to distinguish that this “one percent” doctrine is not Bruce’s real motivation; it’s just part of his rationalization to himself. He further cherry-picks a point in the Wayne history that frames him as a hunter, characterizing his dehumanization of Superman as mere prey and creates a narrative that Superman is an all-powerful animal, which if left unchecked, “could wipe out the entire human race”.
Bruce also compares Superman to his greatest criminal enemy as a “freak dressed like [a] clown”, the same clown who killed his adopted son. Batman feels “the world only makes sense if you force it to”; acknowledging at some level that he has a skewed perspective and that he imposes his interpretations on reality, rather than taking reality as it is.
He tells Superman “I understand”, conveying that he has all the information he is willing to accept. He tells Superman “you were never a god”, (failure to live up to Bruce’s idea of God) and “you were never even a man” (Superman has no humanity).
When Batman later defeats Superman in their fight, he isn’t lecturing about the “one-percent” doctrine, he wants to impress upon Superman how naïve he was to cling to hope.
Why do we care what this chud thinks, anymore? James Gunn runs DC now.
Until this point, he’s refused to engage in conversation, so these words mean everything Batman wants to communicate to Superman before he dies. “I bet your parents taught you that you mean something; that you're here for a reason. My parents taught me a different lesson, dying in a gutter for no reason at all. They taught me that the world only makes sense if you force it to.”
The “parents” Batman references are conceptual; he has reduced them to mere props in the formation of his worldview and patterns of thinking. He subconsciously knows he has tarnished their legacy: conveyed through a monstrous Bat erupting from their crypt in his nightmares, also prophesying that if he spills (Superman’s) blood, this is what he will become.
The titular fight for Bruce parallels his initial fall: into the cave and into darkness. The progression of the fight represents Bruce descending deeper and deeper into the Madness: on the rooftop he destroys the Bat Signal, then the fight continues to descend below to the lowest point in the building, where Bruce will have to make a choice. Snyder deliberately has Batman's mask broken in half to symbolize the choice between his humanity and the monster that Batman is on the precipice of becoming.
The final fight is so fricking cool. Specially the fact that everything that happens mirrors exactly the prologue showing Batman as a young kid. His parents death, him running from their funeral, his fall inside the cave, everything.
It is basically Batman dragging Superman inside his own nightmare/trauma.
One of the main difficulties audiences had in understanding was the resolution of Batman and Superman’s fight. A typical revenge tragedy takes a character all the way to where they will carry out the vengeance: if they do, they are actually harming themselves. This moment is called anagnorisis: a recognition or moment of clarity when a character gains understanding of either their or another’s true identity or discovers the true nature of their own situation.
Why do people have a problem with the no killing rule? Yes it's flawed but that's what makes Batman interesting, you have to remember that he is a schizo that dresses as a bat to punch thugs. If he could kill anyone then there would be no conflict
In the moment Batman is going to strike Superman, cognitively, there is no way he expects to hear the name of his mother. Superman says “you're letting him kill Martha”, appealing to both Batman’s past heroism and current guilt complex. This caused Batman to pause and process: the fact that he’s standing over someone about to kill them (the character did live long enough to see himself become the villain), that Superman is bleeding (so he does bleed and is not too powerful to exist), realizing that he would be responsible for making Superman an orphan - all of these realizations domino in this moment as he realizes he misjudged Superman.
Bruce is also having a PTSD flashback, reliving the trauma he has suppressed and run from. Bruce is remembering a time before he cast the spell on himself; realizing that while his “force” let him take command of his life, it did not honor his parents or free him from being “fallen”.
He starts to see his own father in Superman, but when Lois arrives and clarifies “it’s his mother’s name”, Bruce not only sees his father in Superman, he sees himself.
It was Lois, not the word (as many have shallowly misinterpreted), who stopped Batman. As Alfred hoped "some woman from Metropolis [would] make him honest", and as it turns out: Lois was "the key" for Clark and Bruce.
Bruce can no longer deny Superman’s humanity or assert that his crusade was for mankind.
His facade falls apart and he can no longer maintain the lie that he has told since childhood. For the first time in a long time Bruce truly empathizes with someone else, finally snapping out of his vengeful tunnel vision.
Furthermore, Bruce had stopped trusting; the partnership with Robin was over, he lies to Alfred and he doesn’t even trust himself.
Yet even under his boot, Superman still saw in him someone who saves, someone who could protect his mother and chooses to trust - calling out the best in Batman.
Bruce is shown grace and forgiven by the man he was about to kill, and more than that, Superman trusts him with saving his mother. Bruce recognizes Superman is needed elsewhere and affirms Superman’s trust: making him a promise (something he previously said were useless), “They need you at the ship. I’ll make you a promise, Martha won’t die tonight”. Bruce has been on the wrong path, but his experiences were not a waste: only because of his years of training can he save Martha in the warehouse. He has been given a chance to show that his skills and work as Batman do have value, and in saving Martha Kent he is able to free himself of the demons that have haunted and driven him since childhood. Bruce had disconnected from and taken Alfred for granted, but after his encounter with Superman, he admits his fault and tells his surrogate Father “I don’t deserve you.” Bruce begins to trust in the value of promises again.
After Superman’s sacrificial death, Batman is visually shown stepping out into the light, signifying his redemption. Batman walks through the smoke, and there is fire in the background behind him, symbolizing his return to the world from the hell he shut himself in. Bruce has been cynical about humanity since the death of his parents, but he now has a renewed hope, standing in the true light (in the sun as Jor-El prophesied) and later affirming at Clark’s funeral that “men are still good”.
The guilt Bruce felt in not being able to help his parents as a child, is now feels for Superman. Bruce realizes that Superman’s death may have been preventable, had he began healing sooner: “I failed him in life; I won’t fail him in death.” Bruce will honor Superman’s memory: by rising to higher standards and by “rebuild[ing and] do[ing] better”.
>OUR BATMAN KILLS AND IT MAKES TOTAL SENSE
Ok so why is the Joker alive?
>W-what?
Why is the Joker alive? If this Batman kills, why is the Joker alive?
>WELL, YOU SEE, ERRRRRRRRRRR *insane ramblings and schizo theories*
It's fricked, all of it.
If Batman kills, Joker has to be dead, or none of it makes sense.
Snyder is a hack.
UUHHH IT'S RIGHT THERE IN THE MOVIE HE SAYS
>I'll fricking (WHOAH THIS IS FOR ADULTS!!!) kill you...
>...but not yet
maybe pay attention next time I swear low IQ anti snydergays get filtered by the most basic of 4d filmmaking
>>I'll fricking (WHOAH THIS IS FOR ADULTS!!!) kill you...
>>...but not yet
In Gotham, in the present day, you moron.
When you see Batman on the top of the car chasing Harley and Joker, why didn't he kill them? He spared Harley, saved her even.
The movie is shit and makes no sense.
>When you see Batman on the top of the car chasing Harley and Joker, why didn't he kill them? He spared Harley, saved her even.
He beat the shit out of her and was trying to kill the Joker. David Ayer even implied that in his director's cut of the movie Batman unironically rapes her on the top of the hood of his car as a hard lesson. Batman rapes Harley Quinn to teach her a lesson.
This ain't your grandpa's Batmam. This is a real hardcore motherfricking Batman who rapes and kills.
>and was trying to kill the Joker
Headcanon.
Please reference the part of
that said "insane ramblings and schizo theories" because that's you right now, lol
What schizo theories? Check any interview with the director responsible for the first Suicide Squad movie. Batman set out to kill the Joker, but the Joker managed to escape.
If you're talking about the Justice League movie, that scene happens in the far future where Batman needs Joker help to reverse the future. Joker is key to them succeeding in their mission.
>Check any interview with the director
No.
If it's not in the movie, it doesn't count. I don't care what nonsense is made up after the fact to cover for a bad movie.
>bro it's totally deep because director said X
Don't care. It's pure cope for a bad movie.
But it is in the movie. Even in the messy theatrical cut we see Batman chasing Joker and Joker escaping. You don't have any argument. It'd be different had caught the Joker and given him to the cops, but that wasn't what happened.
>But it is in the movie
No it's not.
You're begging strangers on the internet to go look at interviews with directors because it is exactly NOT in the movie, and we have to be told, not shown.
You've chosen such a strange hill to die on.
I am just going to consider a braindead moron and ignore your ramblings.
You accept your defeat with grace. Good.
Reminder: Batman killing and the Joker living makes for a shit movie.
Have a good day, pajeet
You can't kill a prey you can't catch.
>This ain't your grandpa's Batman.
Yes it is.
he needs more batpreptime this is obvious when you think about it, it show's the depth of understanding that snyder has for the character
>>I'll fricking (WHOAH THIS IS FOR ADULTS!!!) kill you...
They say frick in a marvel movie. Is that adult too?
That admission is the first of many indications that Bruce has made a profound character change; he is now dealing with failure in a healthy way and no longer believes hope and heroism are a beautiful lie. When Batman first appears in the film, he chooses to brand someone and in Batman’s last scene, when he visits Lex in prison, he chooses not to brand. Snyder uses each character’s first and last appearance to convey something important. Furthermore, the film ends and begins with beautiful symmetry - opening with the Waynes’ death and ending with the death of Superman: two funerals that changed Bruce Wayne’s way of thinking.
After everything said, i just have to exclaim: fricking kino. We're never going to get another superhero movie like this.
Zack Snyder’s films feature complex character arcs with depth, realism and artistry rarely seen in comic book films. Compared to the typical blockbuster, Batman V Superman is a challenging work of art; exploring complex themes rather than solely driven by plot, structured as a five-act revenge tragedy rather than a conventional three-act hero’s journey and deconstructing tropes of the genre.
Like Snyder’s previous Superhero ensemble Watchmen, BvS explores the logistical problems that would naturally arise if superheroes existed in real life. The film explores the intersection between violence and politics, the nature of justice, complexity of truth and ethics, consequences of choices, power and powerlessness and the impact of parental presence and absence.
In the midst of cartoonish superhero depictions, ‘Batman V Superman’s depicted realism chafed with some of the audience, causing intentional provocation. The film depicts a realistic world: where war is real and tangible, the ruin indestructible aliens fighting in a populated city would cause, the serious cost of collateral damage and seriously depicts the scars that violence leaves on the human soul.
Instead of glorifying violence or presenting it as spectacle, the film has the audience confront it as the characters do.
it's over the insane moron has unleashed his folder
Debate me. Tell me where i am wrong. You won't, you can't. So you'll forever seethe.
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice is what the french would call "le grand kino of our time". We did not deserve it.
K I N O
I
N
O
Why can't characters all be different? Batman has his thing, other characters like Wolverine has theirs, they don't all need to follow the same cultural trends.
All of this discussion is irrelevant when the reality is that Zack Snyder failed to make a compelling, interesting Batman. All of this is theory talk and the same thing nerds have thrown at one another for decades. None of the discussion matters and none of it would matter if Zack had brought interesting characters to the table. He did not. He made a weird, creepy alien Superman and followed it up with a braindead conflict driven movie with Bad Superman fighting a dumb, braindead Batman with a dumb, braindead plot to drive it all together. If that weren't enough, they eventually fought a literal massive, dumb, braindead Doomsday that looked like a cave troll for the express purpose of further deifying Clark Kent into resurrections to complete his plethora of subtle religious allegories in the next installment. People cursed with above room temperature IQs thought it was all really stupid and we panned it and moved on. None of Zack's desperate ranting about how brave (he wasn't) and ingenious his takes are (they aren't) don't matter. He's pissing in the wind and filling airtime. The man, literally, cannot make a good movie to save his life. Army Of The Dead and Rebel Moon are thoroughly his own original movies (with the heathy lifted scenes, references, and allusions to much better movies not withstanding) and they're fricking trash.
>All of this discussion is irrelevant when the reality is that Zack Snyder failed to make a compelling, interesting Batman.
His Batman is one of the best beloved incarnations of the character.
>His Batman is one of the best beloved incarnations of the character.
Said nobody ever except the dozen of snydertards on some subreddit
LMAO. Capeshit Black folk wanting to talk about "compelling" movies.
The film uniquely takes advantage of the cinematic medium by “showing rather than telling”, weaving the themes throughout through subtle motifs and the characters’ unspoken mindsets. As this Superman is more introverted, he does not often verbally express what he is thinking, while Batman gives rationalizations that cloud his psychological state and Lex creates a façade which leaves his true intentions to be pieced together.
it showsn nothing and tells nothing.
It uniquele takes advantage of money and IPs he only succeeded at driving into the ground.
Piss off
>it showsn nothing and tells nothing.
Here, i made it easier. What this image tells us about the character's journey purely through the visuals alone?
That you have pareidolia and have haver never shown actual movies in your containment room
Funny how nobody like snydershit and the movies bombed until snyder was confined to netflix where he will never touch existing properties again
>the movies bombed
The fans abandoned the dceu becasue they weren't going to watch new slop as long as it was connected to snydershit.
If snydertards were more than few indians he would be still making dceu movies and not cringe moon
They aren't watching the new DC slop not connected to Snyder's stuff either.
Still connected, until they officially truncate.
Also the capeshit fad is over-ish and DC lost the train thanks to snydershit and those characters won't come back to the spotlight outside of it. Maybe for the better.
Reading lots of cope coming from you.
Cope is every single statement made by sneeder since he was banned from every single exisitng IP years ago. Don't get confused
Jesus
Fricking
Christ
can you turn the brightness up in your fricking movies butthole and remove the blue filter on everything?
No.
Snyder is a fricking idiot.
Not that I care in the least about batslop but, and there really is not polite way of saying this; Zack Snyder is an idiot.
An actual honest to God moron.
If you took a screenshot of this post, printed it out and waved it in Zack Snyder's face hed' go "uuuuh", and maybe drool a little bit but the cretin sure as frick wouldn't be able to read it.
I probably wouldn't be able to read a piece of paper you'd be waving in my face too tho
>batman won't kill joker
sure
>batman won't break every bone in joker's body and bind him to a hospital bed
why?
won't break every bone in joker's body and bind him to a hospital bed
He did in the comics after Jason died.
May Allah forgive me for saying this, but the Batman comics make more sense than Zack's version of Batman does.
>May Allah forgive me for saying this, but the Batman comics make more sense than Zack's version of Batman does.
He breaks Joker face in the movies.
MoS and BvS are both an allegory to America post-9/11. It is entwined into the whole story. It takes the immigrant’s tale already present within Superman’s story and plays it out in a modern context.
Superman represents the alien culture, the portion of it trying to assimilate to our American cultura and way of life.
Zod and the banished Kryptonians represent the fanatical element of Superman's birth-place bent on wiping us out, basically Al Qaeda.
Superman isn’t responsible for their actions, but some people hold him thus, and so does he to a degree, giving him a healthy dose of guilt over the loss of life his fellow Kryptonians wrought.
Batman represents the people of the West. You've him quoting Dick Cheney during the War on Terror.
Lex Luthor represents the elite playing both sides off each other for his own benefit, something that happened in the real world where the military complex profited from the Middle East destabilization and the war effort.
Doomsday is the resurrected Zod, brought to life by the blood and meddling of the amoral elite, basically ISIS.
The New Gods represent the Saudis, taking the Kryptonian Codex as their own to mass-produce brainwashed, subservient Kryptonian soldiers.
Reminder that “Codex” is just another word for “book.”
Continuing General Zod in Man of Steel was a character study about religious extremism.
"Codex" is, for all intents and purposes, among other things, a precursor to the printed book, essentially a bound manuscript. The word carries some pretty heavy religious connotations.
This particular book is the source of the Kryptonian genetics program. It is Zod's religion. It's all over everything he says in regards to the program, but he's not content to simply follow the "word" of the book, he wants to edit it, amend it, to decide what's worthy of bringing forward into his people's future and what "degeneracy" should be left behind. This makes him labeling Lara and Jor as heretics tellingly ironic, for not only does the call of heresy betray the religious overtones the program has for him, but also betrays him as a heretic as well.
Interestingly enough, care to guess what major world religion came into being around the same time the codex was becoming a widespread form of preserving text? Huh? Huh?
Jor has taken the program, the book, and infused it into the body of his son Kal. For Kal, this means that the "book" of his people is just a part of who he is, much in the same way that people of the West have historically been Judeo-Christian, culturally, irrespective of whether or not they've stepped one foot inside a church or a synagogue, so it's apparent from this perspective that Superman represents the more secularized Muslim, neither devout nor a fanatic, just Muslim by virtue of culture. Moreover, as an "alien" with the power to "burn it all down," he's almost undoubtedly meant to represent Islamic nuclear powers, like Pakistan is and Iran almost certainly will be one day soon.
And therein lies the message. The 9/11 imagery pretty much sells it. These films tell the story of what it will take for the West to see the East as a hero - it must stand up, define itself in unambiguous terms, and slay some of its own monsters for a change. It also tells us that the West must stop chasing vengeance and start seeking justice if it ever wants the world to see it as a hero again.
There is all this and much more. This is what comics can do when allowed to be poetic and mythic. No one has ever made a cape series like this. I doubt anyone else will even have the balls to try.
The way they treated Batman not killing in the Batman felt really forced and almost like an autistic response to BvS.
I love the Batman but I think Snyder's right. He's a brooding, dark, (unironically) damaged vigilante hunting down serial killers and psychos. His whole "I can't kill them" feels unnatural and results in moronic moments like the end of Batman Begins where he's like "putting the bad guy in a situation where he'll definitely die and can't prevent it from happening, and then choosing not to help him isn't the same as killing him AKSHULLY"
The whole thing just reminds you that you're watching children's capeshit in films that otherwise reek of kino.
I love how every Snyder thread is just a wave of shitposters seething at Snyder and accusing him of doing a bunch of stupid stuff instead of good stuff. And then some Snyder fans come in and show that all those accusations are false and that he actually very clearly did all the good stuff.
And then the shitposters seethe harder and claim that none of the fans' examples count and that it's unfair that Snyder has such a large fanbase since everyone hates him.
He's just mad he can't ever make a Punisher movie now that the character was retired
>Be Zack Snyder
>Be relevant entirely for remakes and adaptions of capeshit
>Your star wars ripoff fails
>You are now completely irrelevant
>Try to get attention by claiming the capeshit characters who have you relevancy are what is becoming irrelevant
What a loser.
But it's his murderous version that made it irrelevant and less profitable?
Is he moronic?
Comic-book fanboys treat capeshit characters as Jesus.
Could be worse. Have you seen pseudo-inteleectual cape-contrarians like snydertards?
Other Batman movies let the villains die. Iicr, Kilmer let Two Face fall to his death. He survived, but he couldn't know that.
The issue is not killing, really. It's the tone. Indiana Jones kills people but the tone of his movies is colorful adventure. Snyder means that a Batman story should be dark and depressing with a dour, downer tone as the norm, like Se7en. And not even The Batman went that far, there was some camp in there.
Batman's not a god, Zack, he's a commercial property aimed primarily at children. He's in kids' lunchboxes, ffs.
The "modern myth" thing doesn't have to be taken at face value.
That is wildly out of context
>I made batman relevant
jesus the ego on this guy
batman has been relevant before he was even born
no wonder his daughter an heroed
SIR SNYDER WILL REDDEEM BATMAN SIR
Test
>Batman doesn't kill bad guys
>he just breaks their spines, smashes their skulls, throws them off of tall buildings, crashes vehicles into them at 120+ miles per hour, blows them up with bombs, etc.
>they all live though
How the frick does he do it?
This is the thing that irks me in superhero movies, specially the ones that make a big issue about the hero not ever stooping so low as to kill someone.
The director wants to sell the idea that the hero will never cross that line but the director also wants to shoot cool, adrenaline pumping scenes where the hero does dangerous shit that could outright end in someone's death, or then the hero dodges an almost fatal situation that ends up hitting someone else. Thus completely negating all that moral high-ground about such a "no-kill" rule.
The Batman did this several times.
This piece of shit movie straight up looks like direct to VHS. What a downgrade from BvS.
why did he wait for batman to turn around twice instead of shooting immediately
NOOOOOO NOT MY BATMANERINO HE SHOULD ONLY DO THE FUNNY QUIPS
WHERES MY FRICKING NIGHTWING MOVIE REEEEE BLUDHAVEN IS KINO
Mercy is wise. Killing is foolish.
>Zack "this have sex so it's good" Snyder